What Are The Things That Make a Muslim a Kaffir?

[snakelegs]

from another thread

your belief in the prophet is incomplete because you reject the authentically transmitted teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh with absolutely no reason to do so. As for why these concepts do not come in the Qur'an, I already answered that but you ignored my response. They are prophecies not articles of faith. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh prophecized many things, big and small, they don't all appear in the Qur'an because the Qur'an is for individual guidance.

are you saying that a muslim who does not follow/believe in the ahadees is a kafir? is it all the ahadees or just some?
i am gradually discovering that more and more things fall in this category (most recently - a muslim who willfully neglects to pray 5 times a day is a kaffir - and therefore theoretically - in a muslim country - eligible for death).
originally, i thought it was only if a person practiced shirk or negated the shahada who would become kaffir.
then i thought it was also if someone did not practice the 5 pillars of islam.
but obviously there are more things yet.
so what are the things that make a muslim a kaffir? i'm confused.
thanks.

[scentsofjannah]

originally, i thought it was only if a person practiced shirk or negated the shahada who would become kaffir.

yes and its still that...but thanks for bringing this up..i really appreciate it..lets just hope the thread isnt closed down.

[Silver Pearl]

from another thread

are you saying that a muslim who does not follow/believe in the ahadees is a kafir? is it all the ahadees or just some?
i am gradually discovering that more and more things fall in this category (most recently - a muslim who willfully neglects to pray 5 times a day is a kaffir - and therefore theoretically - in a muslim country - eligible for death).
originally, i thought it was only if a person practiced shirk or negated the shahada who would become kaffir.
then i thought it was also if someone did not practice the 5 pillars of islam.
but obviously there are more things yet.
so what are the things that make a muslim a kaffir? i'm confused.
thanks.

Greetings,

It is important to believe in ahadeeth if it authentic. To ignore it without justification is like saying to a doctor, i don't have to take your prescription as a remedy which can cure me.

There are 2 types of kufr, Kufr akbar (major kufr) and kufr asghar (minor kufr).

There are different types of kufr (disbelief) as well as different levels. While shirk is the unforgivable sin and falls into the category there are minor kufr.

Examples of Kufr: "Cursing a Muslim is sinful and fighting him is disbelief." (Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree)

"Two things in people are disbelief: speaking ill about the lineage of others and wailing over the dead." (Saheeh Muslim)

"Whoever makes an oath by other than Allaah has committed disbelief." (Sunan Abu Daawood)

"Whoever cohabits with a menstruating woman, enters a woman from her rectum, or goes to a fortune-teller has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammad." (Sunan Abu Daawood)

"And do not detest/hate your fathers, for that is disbelief from you."


"And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, then they are the disbelievers." (5:44)


Ibn Abbaas said: "It is not the kufr that takes one out of the religion. Rather when he does it then it is [an act of] disbelief, and he is not like the one who disbelieves in Allaah and the Last Day" and Taawoos said the same and Ataa said: "It is disbelief less than disbelief, oppression less than oppression and rebellion less than rebellion."

There are many others, the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) was not narrated to have called anyone a kaafir, merely he used to say that if one does such and such action then he would fall into kufr. In addition, one is excused if they did anything in ignorance, accident or was forced. "Error, forgetfulness and what is forced are removed as sins from my nation." (Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree)

I don't know all the different types of kufr and their level as i don't have knowledge on the matter but i'm sure brother Ansar or others will address your questions.

Relevant Information

And Allah knows best.

[amirah_87]

Hi Snaklegs,

The Nullifiers of Islam.. Please read posts 7 & 9 on the link of the thread provided below:

http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...e-level-4.html

Hope You understood!!

Peace :peace:

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[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

You have not beleived until the you make the Prophet (saw) as a judge for all your decisions: And how can you re-enter Kufr when you have not beleived in the first place?

4:65 But no, by your Lord (O Muhammad), they have no Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

And the sheer amount of times that Allah says in the Quran, "Obey Allah and the Messenger"

3:32 Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.

The fact that Allah has put this verse so many times in the Quran, necessitates that the Sunnah and the Hadiths of the Messenger of Allah be preserved for later times. It is impossible that Allah would command someone to do something and not provide him a way and a guide and a direction.

Rejectors of hadith not only contradict themselves over and over, they contradict the Quran which they claim to be following.

:w:

[snakelegs]

Greetings,

It is important to believe in ahadeeth if it authentic. To ignore it without justification is like saying to a doctor, i don't have to take your prescription as a remedy which can cure me.

There are 2 types of kufr, Kufr akbar (major kufr) and kufr asghar (minor kufr).

There are different types of kufr (disbelief) as well as different levels. While shirk is the unforgivable sin and falls into the category there are minor kufr.

Examples of Kufr: "Cursing a Muslim is sinful and fighting him is disbelief." (Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree)

"Two things in people are disbelief: speaking ill about the lineage of others and wailing over the dead." (Saheeh Muslim)

"Whoever makes an oath by other than Allaah has committed disbelief." (Sunan Abu Daawood)

"Whoever cohabits with a menstruating woman, enters a woman from her rectum, or goes to a fortune-teller has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammad." (Sunan Abu Daawood)

"And do not detest/hate your fathers, for that is disbelief from you."


"And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, then they are the disbelievers." (5:44)


Ibn Abbaas said: "It is not the kufr that takes one out of the religion. Rather when he does it then it is [an act of] disbelief, and he is not like the one who disbelieves in Allaah and the Last Day" and Taawoos said the same and Ataa said: "It is disbelief less than disbelief, oppression less than oppression and rebellion less than rebellion."

There are many others, the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) was not narrated to have called anyone a kaafir, merely he used to say that if one does such and such action then he would fall into kufr. In addition, one is excused if they did anything in ignorance, accident or was forced. "Error, forgetfulness and what is forced are removed as sins from my nation." (Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree)

I don't know all the different types of kufr and their level as i don't have knowledge on the matter but i'm sure brother Ansar or others will address your questions.

Relevant Information

And Allah knows best.

thank you for your reply.
are the examples you gave above kufr akbar?
the following makes complete sense to me:
"the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) was not narrated to have called anyone a kaafir, merely he used to say that if one does such and such action then he would fall into kufr. In addition, one is excused if they did anything in ignorance, accident or was forced."
i went to http://www.allaahuakbar.net/barelwiy...es_of_kufr.htm
nothing there really contradicted the things i mentioned in my original post.
why do people say that the beauty of islam lies in its simplicity?
until now i've always read that the things i mentioned before are the things that make you a muslim.

[snakelegs]

Hi Snaklegs,

The Nullifiers of Islam.. Please read posts 7 & 9 on the link of the thread provided below:

http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...e-level-4.html

Hope You understood!!

Peace :peace:

i think you referred to the wrong messages? but i did read #36 and the ones after that which seemed to address my question. but to me, these quotes just confirm my original ideas. what am i missing?

"Narrated Mu3aawiyah ibn alhakam as-Sulami, He said " I had a Slave girl who used to herd Goats for me, So one day I went to inspect on her and I found out that a wolf had gone off with one of the goats. And I am a man from Bani Adam, I get angry as how they get angry, and so I slapped her. Then I informed Rasulullah of what I did and he told me " Bring her to me" So I brought her to Rasulullah and he asked her ' Where is Allah?' She answered ' Above the Skies' He asked her " And who am I? " She answered " You are the Messenger of Allah" Rasulullah then said to me " Free her for verily she is a beleiver"

And Hadeeth Abi Hurairah " When Allah Created the Creation, He wrote in his Book which is with him Above the Throne, ' Verily my Mercy has Surpassed my Wrath' "

islam is the complete surrender to Allah in his oneness and tying yourself to him in obedience and sincerity and being free from shrik (associating partners with Allah ) and the like of it..

Hadeeth Ibnu 3umar may Allah be pleased with him "islam is built upon 5: bearing witness that there is no God worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammed is the messenger of Allah and the establishment of prayer and giving charity and the piligrimage to the holy ka3bah and fasting in ramadhan.

Also in Hadeeth jibreel narrated by abee hurayrah and 3umar... found in bukhaari and muslim.

Narrated ibn 3abbas, he said Rasulullah peace be upon him said " Do you know what is Iman in Allah? " We said " Allah and his messenger know best" Rasulullah said " To bear witness that there is no God but Allah, And that Muhammad is his Messenger, and Performing the Prayers, and Paying the Zakaah, and Fasting Ramadhaan, and to give 1/5 from the war booty "
{Muttafaqun Alaih}"
thanks for the link.

[snakelegs]

:sl:

You have not beleived until the you make the Prophet (saw) as a judge for all your decisions: And how can you re-enter Kufr when you have not beleived in the first place?

4:65 But no, by your Lord (O Muhammad), they have no Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

And the sheer amount of times that Allah says in the Quran, "Obey Allah and the Messenger"

3:32 Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.

The fact that Allah has put this verse so many times in the Quran, necessitates that the Sunnah and the Hadiths of the Messenger of Allah be preserved for later times. It is impossible that Allah would command someone to do something and not provide him a way and a guide and a direction.

Rejectors of hadith not only contradict themselves over and over, they contradict the Quran which they claim to be following.

:w:

well, i obviously cannot re-enter kufr.
if a person believes that mohammad is the last prophet why does this automatically require a person to believe everything other people have said about him or what he has said?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

well, i obviously cannot re-enter kufr.
if a person believes that mohammad is the last prophet why does this automatically require a person to believe everything other people have said about him or what he has said?

Please refer to the thread that you pasted my quote from to see why a rejection of the Sahîh Ahâdîth entails a rejection of the Prophet's teachings. If a person truly believes that Muhammad pbuh is the Messenger of God then such a person will accept the Messenger's teachings as verse 4:65 quoted above demonstrates.

Regards

[IbnAbdulHakim]

"And do not detest/hate your fathers, for that is disbelief from you."

that is what our generation should be aware of... it seems prevalent quite a lot these days...

:salamext:

[snakelegs]

Please refer to the thread that you pasted my quote from to see why a rejection of the Sahîh Ahâdîth entails a rejection of the Prophet's teachings. If a person truly believes that Muhammad pbuh is the Messenger of God then such a person will accept the Messenger's teachings as verse 4:65 quoted above demonstrates.

Regards

yes, i read that. but it didn't answer the question that is the subject of this thread. i am just wondering, what are the sins that are serious enough to make a muslim a kafir? there are different levels of kufr but i am speaking of the level that would render a muslim no longer a muslim.
i am interested because i thought this was a simple matter, but now i am learning that it is more complex.
denial of the shahada (obviously)
neglect of the 5 pillars (apparently, since willful neglect of prayers makes one a kafir).
would not following the hadiths be another condition that would cause a person to be deemed an apostate?
what else?
thanks.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

yes, i read that. but it didn't answer the question that is the subject of this thread. i am just wondering, what are the sins that are serious enough to make a muslim a kafir? there are different levels of kufr but i am speaking of the level that would render a muslim no longer a muslim.
i am interested because i thought this was a simple matter, but now i am learning that it is more complex.
denial of the shahada (obviously)

Hi Snakelegs,
Sins do not render one a kâfir; if someone indulges in sins they may be a Fâsiq (sinful person) but they cannot be declared to be a kâfir. Someone is only a kâfir if they clearly disbelieve in what the Prophet pbuh came with and they cannot be excused on the basis of ignorance or coercion, etc.

In terms of sins, someone who is negligent in his religion and commits major sins would be a Fâsiq but if he responds to Da'wah by saying something like, "Oh I don't believe in all that religious stuff" then he is clearly commiting kufr. So it depends on their intent - if they don't follow a religious practice it would only be kufr if the reason for them not following it was because they didn't believe in it or had no care for it whatsoever.

would not following the hadiths be another condition that would cause a person to be deemed an apostate?

If someone rejects the hadith because they are uninformed (or sometimes misinformed) about the reality of the hadith and have not acquired the proper understanding, then their ignorance excuses them. However, if someone willfully refuses to learn and educate themselves (something I call 'self-imposed ignorance' which is unfortunately common amongst hadith-rejectors) then they are not excused. This is because their rejection of hadith constitutes a rejection of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his judgements and verdicts.

neglect of the 5 pillars (apparently, since willful neglect of prayers makes one a kafir).

Neglect comes under what I mentioned earlier. However, with regard to the specific issue of prayer there is a difference of opinion. One group of scholars (Abu Hanifa, ash-Shafi'i, Malik, etc.) say that someone who abandons his/her prayers is only disbelieving if they do so because they reject the obligation. The other group (Ibn Hanbal, Al-Awza'i, Ibn al-Mubarak, etc.) says that one who abandons their prayers has disbelieved regardless of whether they have abandoned it out of laziness or not.

what else?

Whatever the Qur'an and the Prophet pbuh declare to be disbelief is disbelief. A full list would be found in books on Nawâqidh al-Islâm (things that nullify one's Islam).

Regards

[snakelegs]

Hi Snakelegs,
Sins do not render one a kâfir; if someone indulges in sins they may be a Fâsiq (sinful person) but they cannot be declared to be a kâfir. Someone is only a kâfir if they clearly disbelieve in what the Prophet pbuh came with and they cannot be excused on the basis of ignorance or coercion, etc.

In terms of sins, someone who is negligent in his religion and commits major sins would be a Fâsiq but if he responds to Da'wah by saying something like, "Oh I don't believe in all that religious stuff" then he is clearly commiting kufr. So it depends on their intent - if they don't follow a religious practice it would only be kufr if the reason for them not following it was because they didn't believe in it or had no care for it whatsoever.
If someone rejects the hadith because they are uninformed (or sometimes misinformed) about the reality of the hadith and have not acquired the proper understanding, then their ignorance excuses them. However, if someone willfully refuses to learn and educate themselves (something I call 'self-imposed ignorance' which is unfortunately common amongst hadith-rejectors) then they are not excused. This is because their rejection of hadith constitutes a rejection of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his judgements and verdicts.
Neglect comes under what I mentioned earlier. However, with regard to the specific issue of prayer there is a difference of opinion. One group of scholars (Abu Hanifa, ash-Shafi'i, Malik, etc.) say that someone who abandons his/her prayers is only disbelieving if they do so because they reject the obligation. The other group (Ibn Hanbal, Al-Awza'i, Ibn al-Mubarak, etc.) says that one who abandons their prayers has disbelieved regardless of whether they have abandoned it out of laziness or not.
Whatever the Qur'an and the Prophet pbuh declare to be disbelief is disbelief. A full list would be found in books on Nawâqidh al-Islâm (things that nullify one's Islam).

Regards

wow! i had no idea that this was so complex! i was expecting a short list of specific sins that would make a muslim a kafir.
i can't imagine why some say that the beauty of islam is in its simplicity. the more i learn, the more complicated it seems to me. interesting, tho.
thanks for your reply.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

wow! i had no idea that this was so complex! i was expecting a short list of specific sins that would make a muslim a kafir.
i can't imagine why some say that the beauty of islam is in its simplicity. the more i learn, the more complicated it seems to me. interesting, tho.
thanks for your reply.

You're confusing two different things. On one hand there is the unique simplicity of the Islamic message, while on the other hand we have the current issue which relates to when someone is considered to be following that message or not. You're not the first to mistake one for the other; here's one of my earlier posts:

You wrote (bold emphasis mine):

I don't think Islam's belief system is simple at all. Every day on this forum people ask questions like "What is the Islamic way to do X?", "What is the Islamic ruling on Y?" or "What should a Muslim do in situation Z?"

It's an immense system of rules and regulations that no individual could ever hope to have complete knowledge of in a lifetime.

Aren't you confusing the message/beliefs with the rules/regulations/practices?

I had a conversation with someone who made the same mistake when I said the Islamic message was simple.

Let us consider here - what Islam states the message of God to be. The Islamic message is very simple "There is One God - worship Him alone. Do good deeds because they bring you closer to Him." Out of all the world creeds, the Islamic message may indeed be the simplest yet most comprehensive and coherent. Islam means submission to God. Who, after acknowledging the existence of their creator, would refuse to submit to Him? It logically follows that once we believe in God we should strive towards Him by doing righteous deeds, and for this we will be rewarded in the next life. This is the Islamic message which has been revealed to the Prophets throughout time - a simple message to which humanity has constantly been called. It is not that the message cannpt be understood - people simply refuse to accept it. All prophets continuously called people towards the worship of One God, but they chose to deviate from this pure and simple creed, even though it is something inherent in the human being - it is part of man's natural disposition, which I believe is your view as well, as a believer in God. Not only has God sent revelation but He has also implanted in every human being an innate moral compass that will guide them to the truth so that there will be no excuses.

The Islamic message is very simple. The basic message is simple. Add thousands of rules and it no longer is.

But the rules are not the message! The message of Islam consists of three components - Tawhid (beliefs concerning monotheism), Risalah (Prophethood) and Akhirah (The Hereafter). This message is clear and simple for everyone to understand. Once you accept this message and believe in the Prophet Muhammad pbuh then you start to live your life according to the laws that he has brought. Yes the specific rulings can be detailed as we should rightfully expect from any system which is meant to guide all human beings in every aspect of their life. But that has no bearing on the fact that the message of Islam is the most simple, coherent and comprehensive.

In every human being an innate moral compass that will guide them to the truth. To that I agree as a basic. That ìMoral Compassî will tell you basic things like murder and theft is wrong, treating others with respect is good and we should help those that need help. But it will never tell me that I need to wash my feet before I pray or I canít eat meat on Friday.

I agree absolutely! Islam states that God has implanted in every human being a fitrah, an innate moral compass, a natural human disposition. See this thread where I provided some arguments against atheists on the basis of the fitrah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...s-atheism.html

Muslims believe that the fitrah will guide someone living in the wilderness to the recognition of the divine, but they obviously will not come to realize the legislation and the specific way in which to live. They will desire to know their Lord but will not know the manner of coming closer to Him or worshiping Him in the manner most pleasing to Him.

This is why God sends revelation. Human beings can only recognize so much on their own, but we won't be able to attain closeness to God in the way we can once we read His revelation. God has placed human beings on this earth to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and in doing so come closer to Him. But He does not leave us in the dark as to how to go about doing this, He send revelation and with revelation a prophet, a human being like us, who can show us how to implement the revelation and teach us. We then carry on his teachings and message to others.

So first there is the recognition, which is in accordance with our fitrah. Then there is the acceptane of the Prophet and the desire to live according to the way of life God has revealed to them which will grant us the most success in fullfilling our moral duties and thus coming closer to God.

Regards

A 'short list of sins' does not seem reasonable. For one thing, disbelief is not the same sinning and as well, it is unfair to not take into account the intentions, knowledge or duress a person may be under.

There are undoubtedly some complex issues of Islamic law or other Islamic sciences, but the message of Islam is very clear, basic and simple such that it can be understood just as well by the desert bedouin or the university professor. This is just what we would expect from a divine religion intended for all humanity.

Peace :)

[Curaezipirid]

Money makes kafir

[Zone Maker]

Money makes kafir

:sl:
?????????:? :hiding: ^o)
:w:

[snakelegs]

You're confusing two different things. On one hand there is the unique simplicity of the Islamic message, while on the other hand we have the current issue which relates to when someone is considered to be following that message or not. You're not the first to mistake one for the other; here's one of my earlier posts:
A 'short list of sins' does not seem reasonable. For one thing, disbelief is not the same sinning and as well, it is unfair to not take into account the intentions, knowledge or duress a person may be under.

There are undoubtedly some complex issues of Islamic law or other Islamic sciences, but the message of Islam is very clear, basic and simple such that it can be understood just as well by the desert bedouin or the university professor. This is just what we would expect from a divine religion intended for all humanity.

Peace :)

i know sins do not make a muslim a kafir. but disbelief in the basics obviously would.
i know negating the 2 simple beliefs in the shahada would make you a kafir.
i've learned here for the first time that willfully not saying prayers would make you a kafir. (i thought that would be only a sin) would failure to practice the other 4 pillars (except for hajj of course) make you a kafir too, or just the prayers?
so, i was wondering what else would make you a kafir?
if a person accepted tawhid, risalah he would not be a muslim unless he also believed in akhirah (i thought only the first 2 were necessary.) this doesn't make sense if one becomes a muslim by affirming the shahadah, or is it me?
i wouldn't think there would be that many things that would be terrible enough to make a muslim a kafir. and now it seems like it is not as simple as i thought (originally only that shirk and denial of muhammad as the last prophet of god).
so there is no simple list of the things that would place a muslim outside of the fold? this is what i meant by saying that islam is more complex than i had thought.
p.s. for example, if a muslim knows there is a hadees quoting the prophet and he doesn't act accordingly, does this mean he is denying risalah? (which would make him a kafir)

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

i know sins do not make a muslim a kafir. but disbelief in the basics obviously would. i know negating the 2 simple beliefs in the shahada would make you a kafir.

Yes.

i've learned here for the first time that willfully not saying prayers would make you a kafir. (i thought that would be only a sin) would failure to practice the other 4 pillars (except for hajj of course) make you a kafir too, or just the prayers?

For any practice, I mentioned earlier that it depends on the reasoning of a person. If a person is just lazy that is one thing but if they abandon it because they don't have any care about religion then obviously that is disbelief.

if a person accepted tawhid, risalah he would not be a muslim unless he also believed in akhirah (i thought only the first 2 were necessary.)

When the Qur'an clearly speaks about the hereafter from beginning to end, how can anyone who disbelieves in the hereafter be considered muslim?!
2:85 ...So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
One's acceptance of Risalah is incomplete if they do not accept what the rasûl came with!

this doesn't make sense if one becomes a muslim by affirming the shahadah, or is it me?

Acceptance of what the Prophet brought is implicit in one's testimony of his prophethood. Note also that there are conditions for saying the shahadah; it is not just an empty set of words. The conditions are knowledge, sincerity, acceptance, certaintainty, submission, truthfulness, and love. These are conditions that are obvious logically as well as from the scriptures.

so there is no simple list of the things that would place a muslim outside of the fold?

Most of them are fairly obvious. If one doesn't believe in the Qur'an, the primary and ultimate source for the religion of Islam, how can one be considered a Muslim by any stretch of the imagination?

p.s. for example, if a muslim knows there is a hadees quoting the prophet and he doesn't act accordingly, does this mean he is denying risalah? (which would make him a kafir)

It depends on why he is not acting accordingly. eg. A Muslim is not supposed to speak obscenely but sometimes something may pop out of someone's mouth either out of habit, shock, anger, forgetfulness, excitement, depression, etc. It would be disbelief if such a person rejected it because they didn't care what the Prophet taught or they purposefully decided not to follow his teachings.

Peace :)

[snakelegs]

hi ansar,
just one more question (well, actually 2):
i've read that there are muslims who reject the ahadees and follow only the qur'an. are they still muslims (tho they may be bad muslims) or are they kafirs?
are muslims who readily takfir sinning by doing so, since it is such a serious accusation?

[snakelegs]

Money makes kafir

well, worship of it certainly is. all 3 abrahamic religions would agree on that one. it is probably one of the most busiest idols in the world.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

i've read that there are muslims who reject the ahadees and follow only the qur'an. are they still muslims (tho they may be bad muslims) or are they kafirs?

Many of them are simply misinformed and they don't know any better. Some of them have wilfully closed their minds and do not wish to learn at all about the hadith or the sunnah, and such people are the ones who are commiting disbelief. However, we have to be extremely careful in declaring the disbelief of others; we have to try to find as many excuses as possible to excuse the other person.

are muslims who readily takfir sinning by doing so, since it is such a serious accusation?

Not only is it a major sin, but it could actually become disbelief; please see:
http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...rm-takfir.html

Regards :)

[snakelegs]

Many of them are simply misinformed and they don't know any better. Some of them have wilfully closed their minds and do not wish to learn at all about the hadith or the sunnah, and such people are the ones who are commiting disbelief. However, we have to be extremely careful in declaring the disbelief of others; we have to try to find as many excuses as possible to excuse the other person.

Not only is it a major sin, but it could actually become disbelief; please see:
http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...rm-takfir.html

Regards :)

thanks ansar!

[Musalmaan]

:sl:

my little contribution over this thread, the point to understand is that it is the Hadith that tells that this is the ayah of Quran which is revealed and this is not. if one reject hadith, then wats the point for them to accept Quran, this is self contradictory, which is prevalent in all deviated sects.

Almighty Allah's Glorious and Final Revealed book, the Qur'an is collection of "Mutawatir" Hadith. In the era of Khulfah Raashideen, upon their command, the Sahabah (companions of prophet) had collected all the ayah of Quran in a book form. In the time of prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi wa sallam it was written in clothes, stones leathers, etc carried by different sahabas.


therefore, the scholars of Islam fatwa regarding the "hadith rejector" group is:


-------------------------------------

Primarily, there are two types of Ahaadith; Mutawaatir and Ahad.

Mutawatir Ahaadith are narrated by innumerable number of narrators. It is
impossible that such a large number of people will unite on speaking a lie.
It is similar to a verse of the Qur'aan in its authenticity. To reject a
Hadith Mutawaatir is Kufr. To reject Hadith Aahaad (which has many branches
in relation to the standard of its authenticity) is Fisq (transgression).

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

This is my basic position; and in it, it need to be expressed that I am no scholar of Qur'an and ahadith, (Bear in mind that as an Australian Aborigine, although I am now well educated in English usage, I am also of a genetic inheritance that was without literacy until the English showed up and broke our communities apart and gave us the Bible for comfort, in which we found most of us live more truly than most of those whom gave it to us.) . . .

Kafir is when we so much as temporarily imagine that we are not in need of being held to account for every single instance of sin which so much as crossed out mind. That is why money is so insistant at being causal to Kafir. But in Islam we accept our money within a specific certainty of Allah. Yet in every instance of spending money, or seeking to obtain money so as to spend it, if we are not holding ourselves to account in total in Allah, then kafir result. I am not familiar with the Arabic scholarship in English translations and probably should become so familiar to engage properly in such discussions. But as it has been here in Australia in the long past, I have heard Qur'an in Arabic, and so can live in accord with. This then is just perhaps an oversimplified comprehension of what accords kafir. But truly money is frightening stuff.

Wasalam

[scentsofjannah]

wow! i had no idea that this was so complex! i was expecting a short list of specific sins that would make a muslim a kafir.
i can't imagine why some say that the beauty of islam is in its simplicity. the more i learn, the more complicated it seems to me. interesting, tho.
thanks for your reply.

sadly that is the case now :(...many people have made Islam soooooo complicated and it isnt like that all....basically if someone disbelieves in the Qur'an he cannot be termed a Muslim at all.

[Curaezipirid]

alaikumassalam

I should add to having stated that money makes kafir that among Australians, some Aboriginal and others just within Aboriginal belief structure; it is regarded that best is for any kafir to manifest in mind as resemblence of animals. That is how to simultaneously manage the flora and fauna, and prevent any Human kafir. The only catch is that it is a system that is only fully functional (in that all kafir can be prevented) when every persons equitably regards that hereafter they will experience the fire of existing within and animal, or a bird, form. (or insect or tree or . . . )

An example then: Black cats are the symbol of that Kafir caused in formation by The Dajjal having portrayed himself wrongly as a cat person: but the catch is that it is only for kafir of words claiming cat self in also asserting righteousness of a Soul Ancient of Day to rule above any decision of any Soul Lesser of Year, no matter what the relative worth of the actual decisions. Therefore a kafir that is of a person who regards themself among Ancient of Day, imagining that they need not accept an account against them because they only slighted a person whom regards themself as Lesser of Year, and that incorporates presentation as though a cat type of body (born on a cat story ley line) when actually another (dolphin in the case of The Dajjal actually seems to manifest cats with white patches) sort of person with a different story; then that kafir in mind should adopt the appearance of a black cat.

wasalam