What is the belief of the Australian Aborigines?

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

It is mentioned to me that there could be users of this forum whom may like to know more certainty of Australian Aboriginal culture, and that perhaps a thread in which I can be questioned about Aboriginal culture could be found reason for. The suggestion coincides with a concern that I have about the way in which Aboriginal Australians are and are not enabled to interact with persons from other cultures, and so I have commenced such a thread. But I am beginning with a lengthy essay, so in time perhaps there may be questions that I am not yet aware of needing answers. The work is about fifteen A4 pages, and made in only one draft, so if there are any confusing passages with faulted punctuation, alert me and I can provide better. There are a few short expressions of a foundation mythology at the end, and I am wary to provide any that are not in accord with Qur'an, yet also aware that such are the only true measure of being able to genuinely teach of the culture that is.

I will state at the outset that we are a race with an unusual cultural manifestation that is has a unique biological base; and that this manifests as exposing our worst qualities in the first instance of any interaction. Thereby we are often weakened in that initial interaction. But at the same time, since our very survival depends upon overcoming any such weakness exposed, we are adept at recovering from every first perceived fault. This manifests into a strength by our ability to learn to know ourselves in our weakest manifestations through exposure of. Obviously the task is a difficult one, but once that first negotiation is complete, our strength can not be thereafter underestimated. What is interesting in this phenomenon, is that while it is culturally embedded, it is also manifestly a biological phenomena. This is amply apparent in that such behaviour exists among very many persons of Aboriginal descent whom are now of white skin so not readily identifiable as Aboriginal, and have also been raised entirely outside of the culture that sustains such manifestations. It is perhaps an unfortunate, and often indeed tragic, occurrence, that in modern Australian society, as we are still so overtly dominated by the British invasion of Australia in 1788, that our children are not being given the cultural pre-requisites with which to comprehend a need to be wary in our regard for other persons. We mostly recover well from being misinterpreted in our own first mishaps of chance faults exposed in initial interactions; but it is that our children are biologically inclined towards regarding that the worst in a stranger is that which they first manifest. Yet by knowing this about ourselves, and also by knowing that strangers may have learned this about us, we are enabled to be more self critical now in our observations of second, third and subsequence, chance mishaps of faults exposed in inter-cultural interaction. I will explain this with an example. I had a teaching Dream about this very matter only a few days ago. I had an initial interaction with a big fat American. At first I distrusted him by my own nature, and in that his presence was inconvenient, but in the first active interaction he manifested, I was well enabled to trust. Yet immediately thereafter he manifested a very frightening interaction, and my instinct was to abhor his self; yet I am that I could not judge him upon any but his first interaction, such that I was almost easily lead, by him, into a dangerous situation, all the while having comprehended such. But then I woke up in time to save my self. So here I am revealing this, only so as that any persons whom are not of Australian Aboriginal origin, whom may have taken advantage of us by this fact, can know that it was wrong to us. But also in the hope that Aboriginal persons will able to adapt our culture to be more critical in subsequent interactions of our responses to non-Aboriginal persons. It should be stated that while an aborigine, is a person who is native to the place there are at, an Aborigine, with a capital “A”, means a person native to Australia by racial origin. Quite an honour really that the English invading language gave us such a status.

So here I am lead into providing some further information about our culture and what are its unique attributes that we are proving as worthy of saving, in this age in which so much of antiquity is being exposed to the weather. It need to be stated that within our modern cultural etiquette it is that I need to substantiate my self as a person whom is a proper person to be imparting such knowledge before I take this matter any further. I could not in fact without. Therefore it is necessary to comprehend that all I can impart of Aboriginal culture is of me. My own true self. Therefore some parts of what I can teach will be most soundly based within my own experiential understanding, while other parts will be more soundly based within my own academic anthropological research. So it may seem that I meander often between non-Aboriginal and Aboriginal modes of expression, but always within a basically Aboriginal cultural form of story telling, of my own truly verified experiences. Stories are, in my opinion, the only way to teach culture. However I will here be telling my own story, and in my story, I have attained some worth in an academic sense within the discipline of anthropology, so thereby I may use some of that discipline as a short hand way of revealing our way.

Since I am white skin and well educated Australian, with a good orientation to mainstream Anglo-Saxon oriented culture, I need to substantiate that I live within empirical evidence that is of merit in authorising my self to engage in a process of imparting any of the worth of Aboriginal culture. It may already be obvious that what has happened to me in my life is that I have become comfortable with providence of a non-Anglo-Saxon way, within Anglo-Saxon means of expression. So this process is worthy of detailing. There are many things written about Aboriginal tradition, and how such had adapted to the modern urban context, but yet only a little about what is being retained by modern Australian contexts of the heritage of antiquity. We are not only a hunter gatherer society any more, yet we still value that way immeasurably. For only about 2% of the population, and a black population among a white majority, to be held so high in national regard as many Aboriginal Artists are these days, is no insignificant fact. Yet what I am here telling, is neither, even thought it is of a cultural comprehension that has been acquired within the Australian mainstream.

As a child I recall very well that the world seemed to be made up of mainly dumb and wrong phenomena, and that most persons seemed like totally ignorant idiots completely out of touch with reality. That is except for the natural world. However the man made environment was all too much like somebodies worst nightmare coming real. My experience of modern mainstream Australian society in this regard is not at all unique, and is factually common to many white Australians with some Aboriginal ancestry. It could be said that as a Nation we are all just waiting for somebody to wake us up to the fact that we are colluding in that nightmare by not overtly working to repudiate the modern world. But it is as though there is something in our genetics constantly reminding us that this world is not the real world. What I remember as important in that my father transmitted to me is that he very often provided all commentary from his own certain knowledge about the natural surroundings. Flora and fauna especially. He also never failed to provide any scientific empirical data that could repudiate any false belief he noticed. While these providences were at all times within a mainstream Australian outlook, his method of exposition was really only missing that key to Aboriginal belief, that we are at all time to identify every manifestation in our own self, that is not provenly a Human manifestation, with another living form. Factually this comprehension was provided to me by one of my parents closest friends and God Father to my brother, in the form of a good book of Legends of the Dreamtime. So as soon as I had that key of being able to base empirical evidence in such legends, my whole world re-oriented rapidly. That key is only the key to knowing my own true self, those parts of me in which I am true to Soul; and it is that I learned that key through a teaching belonging soundly within modern Islam. Yet this also was grounded by my parents. My mother is a devout Christian. My parents had many friends throughout my childhood, often enough whom were black skin persons, and whom are from different parts of the world and different cultures. I remember being looked after one evening by a Pakistani man called Zahee Kahn when I was six. But then my parents have always sustained unusual friendships. With persons of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, and Shinto or Tao, Asian cultures, and also from Germany and America. All of these persons have been engaged in the work of environmental science. At pre-school one day my father visited with his friend called Graham Webb who is one of Australia’s crocodile hunters, and showed a turtle and a lizard to all the children. But I am in shame for having sat on a snake at Graham’s house. You may readily thus regard that I am raised within an Animist cultural foundation, even though it has a form from the Catholic church and all else that ‘the west’ is regarded as faulted with, superimposed over this foundation.

Additionally, as a teenager, I sort of happened to meander into a significant Traditional Aboriginal Corroboree, in 1988, at the exact location and time of the 200th anniversary of the invasion of Australia. Within this field of the effects of my participation by bearing witness, I am formally regarded as obligated to teach Aboriginal Kinship systems, that are integral to Australian Aboriginal culture. Therefore, it is that none can question my authority in this. However, it could readily be that any Aboriginal person may like to oppose my expressions, and within our culture we have a system of agreeing to disagree. Most likely the only opposition I could face would by from persons whom are socialised and enculturated within one of the various different cultural forms that are all included in the entirety of Australian cultural expression, but are not that inimical with my own experience of our unique Australian Indigenous culture. Therefore it is the prerogative of any
Aboriginal person to find me at fault if they so choose, and I will not fault them only for disagreeing with my expressions of a unity of culture here. Across Australia in 1788 there were more than 200 distinct languages each with many dialects, and each culturally distinct. Yet there are features common to each place that it is my intention to divulge. The foremost among these is that each place has its own unique Kinship system. A Kinship system is like the Ummah. However there is one cultural tenet that is needed before I begin to explain how various Aboriginal Australians orient within a concept that is similar to that of the Ummah.

Most of what I am detailing is matters that are more properly regarded as belonging to an inside part of the culture of other places, yet here in Traditional Australia, these are outside teachings. There is a strong cultural regard for the matter of distinguishing what is the difference between “inside” and “outside” business. That is, I am not allowed to relate any matter that could be an inside matter. My comprehension of Islam, is that generally The Ummah is a more inside teaching that Kinship is for Aboriginal Australians. Therefore it is that it must be held as discriminated to be of a unique and different definition, even though I have made a comparison. In the largest part, why Aboriginal Kinship is enabled to be an outside teaching is because Kinship is inclusive of the categorisation of all native Australian flora and fauna, as well as Human beings, and therefore it is distinct, definitively, from The Ummah.

However there is a cultural pre-requisite to comprehending Aboriginal Kinship. That is, we are all, who are truly within Aboriginal Tradition, within the regard, that each and ever person must: “go with the Dream that wakes you up.” Really it is like accepting that which is your own consequence through Prayer. Prayer in Aboriginal culture is defined as “Entering the Dreamtime”. Yet Dreamtime is a concept in which only a partial translation has been made quite on purpose. In some Aboriginal languages the word for “Dreamtime” could equitably be translated as Jannah, but only depending upon its use being correct to that which is the reality of Jannah of the future. Dreamtime, is also a state of mind, and it is regarded strongly that none of us are, in this time, enabled to properly, at every moment, discriminate the past from the future from the present, while in that state of mind. Therefore it is not actual Jannah. Yet it is that the Aboriginal cultural regard for Jannah is that our labours, when real work, are at all times work towards forging and sustaining that future Kingdom of Jannah. This is also a matter of external cultural expression. It is regarded heavily that ever physical expression that has no place within Jannah is a matter for the fire. No fear. This is our truth. One senior Aboriginal Elder, who passed away only a few years ago, expressed it in book that “every time you cut a tree a little bit, a little bit pain for you also after”. It is in fact the more correct expression than that I am here utilising, as unique to my own self. His expression is rather more that of the male form. In Aboriginal culture men talk about everything by any and every reference to the birds and the bees. That is, when Men talk about flora and fauna, they are talking also about esoteric secrets. That much is a part of the outside self of any Traditional Aboriginal person. But whether you comprehend any more than that the lizards are being discussed, will depend entirely upon whether any person has provided you with a key. There are seven keys of comprehension. Seven, like the seven skies as known of in Islam, or the seven levels of comprehension of the meaning of ever Hebrew consonant. Whether any person has access to any key, depends only upon their having accurately comprehended the transmission of the key. There may be many persons whom manifest as though they have a key in this modern world, but if they depend upon another person’s understanding, then the key is not yet validly their own. There are Aboriginal systems of giving in Alms of small portions of such comprehension that are equitable with the Alms giving of a Hijab; but ever it is that such gifts must be demonstrably needed and no right can ever be assumed to take of, as very many western occultists have assumed of Australian Aborigines.

However, I have veered away from defining what means: “go with the Dream that wakes you up”. Never talk about any place you’ve never been. Never get any substance you have not Dreamed. Always regard Dreams that you can not relate to your own memory of your own daily life as either a debt being incurred, or as disease caused by black magic. That is, a healthy Aboriginal Australian Dreams only of the real and memorable world. But since 1788, and a hundred odd years earlier even, Aborigines had been Dreaming of the ills of this period of cultural invasion. But like the Jews beginning to be rounded up during the Holocaust, before being gased and burnt, but also before receiving evidence that such was happening to other Jews, we did not believe in such nightmares as real. Not until the first sight of a ship. Never go any place without having first Dreamed of being there. That is, each and every day actively live true to only that Dream which awakened you, that Dream which aroused your five senses to the daily reality of mouths to feed and shelter to provide etc. So here it is that you can readily accept that Aboriginal Australia many not have needed to pray so often in 1770, while Captain Cook was on an exploratory voyage around the coast of Australia, but that in this day, we ought to be entering the Dreamtime in Allah as many times a day as any Muslim is in Prayer. By Prayer alone are we, as Human beings, enabled to cause that we are not being harmed each morning in the Dreams that awaken us by the shaytan. So it stands to reason, of course, that Aboriginal culture places large emphasis upon that work of sustaining the Dreamtime.

Before 1788 all of every persons life was engaged in a nomadic and hunter gather (albeit there are many farming applications within nomadic hunting and gathering) subsistence level of daily monotheistic belief. We woke up, found food, went to where it was safe to be, and raised our families; but when ever there was enough food we would gather and make Corroborees. Most of these were initiation ceremonies. But it may have been that we engaged in such for only one month out of twelve, depending only upon food availability. The rest of the year was spent in really very small family groups that wandered. Usually there were more than only a mother and father and children, but not always. The elderly always travelled with younger persons, but in the prime of life the most important leaders would often be alone with only their own immediate family, out in the bush for months on end. The only resources you own are what you can make from the materials at hand in the bush. The hard work ethic exists for good reason. Our culture teaches us to work or die. At larger gatherings future marriages are arranged, betrothals met, and initiations conducted. Also any death rites that preceded can be finalised. In this function alone we are quite different from modern Islam. But I should explain the death rites last.

The best way to explain Kinship is to run through the life cycle of any person. When a mother quickens a fetus in her womb, is when a Human Spirit has entered her. Where she is at that moment and what she first sees belong to the essential self of that child. Usually that is regarded as the first animal she sees, but not always, perhaps a plant, or even a rock. It is that what is outstanding in the environment at that moment, is where the child’s spirit has only just exited from, so as to become born once more in Human form. The place is of the utmost importance, and the mother must try to give birth close by. This is because the Earth’s Ley lines, that are called Dreamlines or Songlines in Aboriginal culture, are known to be the means of any travel of the Human Soul before being born. We each belong within one specific Ley line, so it is important that all the most significant incidents of our live occur upon that Ley line. There are Laws about the patterns in which families of Human beings relate to the Ley lines. These laws are constantly conformed to, without any possibility of variation. There exists within the study of immuno-genetics a modern scientific verification of this belief, that my father pointed out to me. There have been found to be molecules upon the surface of the skin called Major Histo-compatiblity Complex, that accord to each Human being and animal the status of either Crow or Eaglehawk, as such phenomena are named in every one of the Earth’s indigenous Animist based cultures. There is one set of persons whom behave more like crows, and another set whom behave more like eagles and hawks. Each Ley line has a side, crows on one side and Eaglehawk on the other, but it is that the category your own mother is in, is that one that you are born in, regardless of which side of the line you quicken or are born. So Crow and Eaglehawk are known as matri-moieties by anthropologists. In almost every example, the matri-moiety is extra-marital. That means, if you are crow you must marry an eaglehawk and if eaglehawk you must marry a crow. There are rare examples of exception to this Law of what is sustaining to Human health, and in those examples it is always that if marriage occurs within an extra-marital moiety, it can only be to a person who belongs to a different Ley line. This is a fundamental nature of the Human stability of Animist Faith.

However what you actual birth totem is can be also determined by your father. There is a patrilineal inheritance system also. But the matri-lineal will determine your true inside self, according to type, as in crow or eaglehawk, and according to generation, as in the generation below you mother within that matri-moiety, as is locally manifest by the local Ley lines. But your father’s animal totem provides you with an immediate external identification of clan. I am a Crocodile Clan person. But I am mostly more of a kangaroo on the outside. Also, it is that at my heart and in my bones, I am in identity most aligned with the snake. But watch out, because Aboriginal Kinship systems, through the patrilineal clan system, and marriage alliances, also have systems by which I might be something other than a real snake, and you would never know. In fact, it might just happen to me that I begin to Dream about being in any story, and then am taught that story from the tradition, and then I could become that also. It really depends upon how much responsibility I am able to accept, and what Dreams I identify as my own. But it is only by external identification of Dreams that any person is regarded as having any Human worth and merit in being that person responsible for the physical manifestations of that form of fauna. (Making me personally responsible for many of the red bellied black snakes in the Armidale region of New South Wales, and for some rare wallabies protected there in the National Parks; but thereby responsible also for many persons Dreams of such animals, and for those Dreams that are diseased Human expression that should better be manifesting as that animal. Thereby I am here in Queensland, with an array of other animals which manifest within my field of knowledge and actions, a responsible unit of the native population, and that is, within Kinship. I saw a marsupial hopping mouse right near my home in a big city! But I also know about the lung fish that live in this region – true they are fish with lungs as well as gills, but in such numbers that many are the kafir never formed since lung fish form in the place of.)

However, Kinship is also a system of the codes of conduct for all Human behaviour. I called a Nungarrayi in the Warlbiri language. Nungarrayi is my skin name. That means that my Husbands must be a Jangala, and his sisters, Nangalas, are likely to form good friendships with me. It is that I will only have one Husband but that all his brothers are to be regarded as liken to being a Husband. This usually has not the meaning that any sexual liason occur, but it means only that if need arose for such, then it could be managed within Law. A man may have more than one wife. My mother will always be a Nakamara, and her brothers, who are likely to instruct me in Law are called Jakamara. In fact all Nakamara women are mother to me, and all Jakamara are Law men. My children are all Jampidjimbas or Nampidjimbas. Every Nampidjimba and Jampidjimba is regarded as each others brothers and sisters, as I am sister to every other Nungarrayi, and Jungarrayi. For every Nampidjimba and Jampidjimba child I am called mother, because to any of them the word Nungarrayi is the word for mother, while for me, Nakamara means mother. These will be the first words that any child learns. So you can get that Kinship relations are very truly the most externalised manifestation of our culture. It is called, by anthropologists, a classificatory kinship system. Nunagarrayis and Jungarrayis are regarded with fear by most other persons since we got Rainbow Serpent Dreaming; and Rainbow Serpents are the only ones allowed to know what all other folks are Dreaming. Also Jangalas and Nangalas know most of what other folk can Dream, and they are Traditionally shamans and singers. The Crocodile, or rather in Warlbiri way, the Goanna. What your animal is depends upon what the local fauna is which aligns to the same Ley line as that you are born according to. Aboriginal Men have catalogued the entire flora and fauna of Australia according to which Ley line it belongs. Goanna Dreaming is better with picures while snake is better with words, and so that is why lizards are most often the Shamans, but snakes are more often those who are consulted in Law, because snakes speak true. So from infancy we are all accorded a name which allocates to us the nature of our Dreams, and also that animal which we must accept we will manifest as upon our death so as to ensure we are paying for all such Dreams we accept.

These names also accord specific behavioural demands. For example, I must provide mothering to all Jampidjimbas and Nampidjimbas to have ever been allocated the name Nungarrayi by Warlbiri speaking persons. This is part of my field of responsibilities. Those whom gave me this name are all true believers and a part of a Baptist Church congregation that meets in Yuendumu in the Northern Territory. They have been to the places I used to live in and accepted small parts of responsibility for place in Canberra, or else I could not have this name since I have not been to Warlbiri speaking places yet. But in many ways I am obliged to perform Hajj there prior even to a pilgrimage to Mecca, because of the degree of my obligations. I have already made a Hajj to my birth place, and such is regarded as essential within Aboriginal culture for every person to undertake whenever in any uncertainty. However, I am straying from the need to describe a few of the specifically important behavioural rules. I must avoid persons whom are within the category of son-in-law. In some places it is explained that two such persons get their flies mingling. (But not here in Queensland since the Kurilpa Dreaming in Brisbane is enabling of such, but only in an outside self form as a temporary measure within which to accommodate the invasion. Kurilpa is the water rat, who stole a duck girl and raped her and she made a platypus baby. Platypus bear a strange resemblance to an echidna, and echidnas, like many of the invaders, are the trickster. I am already born within such a story because my parents are in such a marriage as is accorded by the stories belonging in Armidale where I am born. But the rest of the Platypus story is a little lonely so I hope not to have to live in it for too much longer, and that I can be a hopping mouse now also; that is, so long as no snakes, or cats, eat that little mouse, so I am needing to Dream of snakes in victory over cats! In Yuendumu there is a death sentence in traditional law if a snake woman and a cat man get too intimate, so Praise Allah that I am not there now or else all the Baptists would have me for their dinner since a few cat men have been prowling around and I spoke with them.) A sister to a son-in-law is likely to be whom initiates me into any new aspect of culture. To a Jungarrayi I must retain total dignity at all times, and never make any reference what-so-ever to any matter in the slightest bit sexual, and if such occurs he has the right to hit me. That is the only time that any violence was ever allowed from any male to any female.

Now the thing about all these rules is that, while I only learned them by studying anthropology, I found that by adhering to them I was enabled to cause a major recovery in my health. I had received a prolapse when only three, most likely as a result of my parents being in a wrong way marriage, and it could not recover until I was, at 33, 100% committed to Kinship codes of conduct. I think that is enough direct knowledge about Kinship, but it defines every other aspect of Aboriginal culture. For example land tenure.

Land is owned not in portions within a boundary (except as is necessitated by inter-cultural need) but rather by relationship with the stories of how geological formations came into being. These are the stories that are accorded every person defined by their social place. It matters not whether the stories happened yesterday or are yet to happen, in this day today, it is our duty to live according to the stories that we are taught. Very very many Aboriginal Dreamtime stories are available in the form of children’s literature in Australia. All persons are welcomed into this aspect of our culture, of sharing in the process of Dreaming those stories in which we must each find our own accountability in Allah. Some of these stories tell of how Australian flora and fauna first became distinct and unique. Some tell of the faults of our ancestors that we become trapped into no matter how hard we try to resist. Yet these stories also accord to us, that if we follow the wrong one, we are immediately faulted. Qur’an provided us in many places already with a re-forging of most of those stories, and most of the older stories that are about entrapment have been ‘put to sleep’. In fact upon the invasion some elders chose to give the evidence that some stories had ever existed to those invaders whom had the resources to hide such, and were instructed that the stories were being ‘put to sleep’. My own comprehension of this process is that those of us whom were converted to Islam chose to use the process of invasion to cause that more of us be enabled to so convert. In knowledge that there was to be an assault upon our culture, some portions were better protected than others. This is a point of view with which many Aboriginal persons may still today disagree with me in. They can since their disagreement is that which identifies that they have chosen not to convert. In fact much of what is readily available of our culture along the eastern sea board, was let to include that which would cause that such persons are made obvious in falsifing a façade that Islamic converts were the loosers. But in this I will certainly be disagreed with. Critically the stories that you know determine what you own. But that accords only when by knowing a story you are also accepting yourself as responsible for adherence to the story. So to own any part of land, you need to have been given as an inheritance, the stories that transmit the teaching of the Leyline that travels through the place. A locality is measured in distance from significant geological features of the landscape rather than by area within a boundary. This is a significant feature of the difference in mental processing, to that of many other cultures. It is only Animal identification which accords that such mental processing is safe.

About marriage I should tell a little. Ideally at seven or eight, when a circumcision initiation is performed upon boys, He is betrothed to a baby girl and all necessary familial ties of reciprocal obligation are commenced. Such bonds include ongoing obligations in food provision etc. However, often when a boy is first more fully initiated, before marrying in his early twenties, he first is married to an old lady who has no Husband. He may marry his betrothed bride only when she is old enough some years later. The older wife will teach Him how to be a good Husband to her first. Occasionally also baby girls are betrothed to older men, and when the girl is mature enough to have her first baby she marries him. But he is likely to pass into the after life well before her, at which time she may be free to form a love match. In general men are allowed more than one wife, but women only one Husband at a time. Yet if her first Husband is not there any more then it is expected that she will become the property and full responsibility of another man. No female is allowed to do for herself any aspect of her own life. But her husband will surely enforce that she does take the responsibility for every part of her children’s life until they are married adults. A wife is regarded as responsible to provide to her Husband any part of her comprehension of the world that he could be in need of at all times of the day and night, so it is rightful that her world revolve around him, and that He provide to her in Love that her daily tasks orient towards providing for her children, as He provides for her. It is understood that only by such will children grow up well and learn to Love Allah by loving their Father. Many Aborigines have regarded that Christianity has strong merit in teaching one Husband one wife, and the community in general is moving closer to other cultures in this regard as a positive result of inter-cultural communication. It is also that such is made possible, and necessary, through more daily community contact than in the past. Before a girl marries she may become an apprentice to a young mother with a first baby, and in that way become accustomed to the duties of such a role. This is accomplished through a system of becoming a special person in a special function as an apprentice. The system prevents first time mothers from regarding themselves as in any way hard done by. There are also patterns in which no child is ever able to be regarded as special by cause of being the oldest or youngest, because there is always another sibling born, to a different mother, perhaps the same father, perhaps not, children might not know who another child’s actual biological parents are. But if they have the same skin name, they are a sibling. In general such matters as divorce are regarded as possible but not desirable. But if a man is not providing for a wife, it is her right to walk out of the marriage, and she may sing a younger Husband to her. The practise of singing a person to bring them to you is the most common way of establishing a Love bond rather than a marriage by betrothal. It is called Love magic, but is really only a way of establishing that an existing debt exists, and that in Love may it be paid. You will note that my way of explaining many cultural phenomenon is that of rambling through social relations, but it is really very important that a man’s way is that of discussing food availability and travel arrangements etc.

There is one more set of very significant social relations that needs to be explained. That of Kirda and Kurdungurlu, translated as Bosses and Managers, or owner and worker. It is critical to cultural maintenance. All men have a close bond with another man within a father son kinship arrangement, and women within mother daughter links of arrangements. Within these bonds all work is undertaken. Women’s business always distinct from men’s, and Men’s from women’s. Within any boss manager interaction one person is the responsible person ultimately for any mistakes and the actual land owner, and the other person is the operative party, who collects the food and is responsible for increase ceremonies on the land, receiving the Dreams, performing the Dances, and making the paintings etc. It may be that many paintings are made about which only the artist knows whom was accepting the responsible function of owner. This relationship is sustained by a distinct function of the Aboriginal anatomy and physiology that I will try to briefly explain. I am explaining as I learned terms for from within the teaching of G.I. Gurdjieff. Human disease is a function of the energy that for the reproductive function being displaced into different of the body’s functions that need for health their own energy. It is usual that there is energy transference between the reproductive centre and the movement centre, the lower feeling centre, the teaching centre, and the lower thought centre. In cases of extreme disease like TB (caused by brother sister intimate relations) there is a bizarre flow of these energies each one replacing the next in a circuit. In other cases such a flow exists by reasons only of black magic in the reverse direction. Among Aboriginal Australians such circuits of wrong way flows of energy of the various body centres can be established in which one of these named functions is entirely left out of any diseased exchanges. Or the whole physiology can alter and then a different function is that left out of disease exchanges. Or then a third pattern of a circuit of exchanges can be established, but in which a third of these centres is left out of the disease pattern. So in any given instance there is a guarantee that either the movements, or the heart/teaching centre, and thereby connected to it the lower feeling centre, or the lower thought centre, will be enabled to function perfectly, but with an obvious expense to the other functions. Ideally what occurs is that a child first learns with their movement centre working perfectly until about seven or eight, then with their heart centre working perfectly until adolescence, and then with their lower thought centre working perfectly, and thereby, even amid extreme depravity in social conditions, we are able to retain a realistic perspective, and to a definitive degree, avoid the works of black magic. So in the Boss and Manager social structure, one person is retaining perfect thought function, and the other perfect movement function if dancing or heart function if painting, and so working together they manifest ideally. The two persons then change roles in another aspect of work; but of course the system only works with other persons in the community whom are considering such working arrangements, during the process of their heart/feeling/teaching centre manifesting ideally, and providing the necessary love. In this way we all comprehend that we are interdependent upon one another. The phenomenon of Kirda/Kurdungurlu arrangments is mirrored by the practise that can be known in the modern context as equitable with that of genuine re-evalutation co-counselling as its most overt form; that is despite a few too many shaytans in that practise these days here in Australia.

There may be Muslims familiar with the phenomenon of a shape shifter, and these different patterns are occurring with such shifts. If a person to whom I am in debt regards me with the question in their mind of “what’s your animal” then I shift and if I am a being whom has ever adopted the form of life of the animal whom I am behaving like, my whole body kesdjan, or feeling body, will adopt that shape, while my thoughts will become crystal clear and I will notice what could have been a mistake in any of my behaviour. Then I will be shamed about being an animal, and correct myself into a true Human behaviour. The biology I have described also sustains a feature that makes it far more difficult for shaytan. Shaytan tend to practise false breathing that causes that material of sin is condensed in too fine a density, by drawing reproductive energy up through the spine into the minds eye, but bypassing various other physical functions that are necessary for the processing of such matter. Aborigines have an additional muscular function that accords a strong connection to the spine and that energy can not readily pass through without damaging the body. Shaytan have attempted openly to undermine such by means of anal rapes, and they failed in all respects except that of damaging our reputation.

At death, there are long processes of grieving, in which most of any persons self, Animal or Human identified, is “recycled”. That means, it is forgiven by friends and family where possible, and where friends and family are requiring such for their work. Meanwhile, Human Souls, within their own essential unique self, are sent off back into the landscape in a process of enforcing upon them every memory of every interaction in which they accepted being the responsible party for any mistake, even when not truly at fault. We might not know when any Human Soul will be able to be a Human again, but by this process we are all confident in our Humanity, since ever have we learned to trust our Faith in Allah that redemption is. Gratitude for existing as Human beings is thus culturally embodied by our race. Alongside genuine consideration of the positive attributes of all forms of life. Yet the hard work of managing any mourning process is that of ensuring that any non-Human attributes manifest strictly only as flora and fauna. Thereby we all can eat. We are all hardened to these processes, and I my self find it substantially frightening that I am not better culturally conditioned into an animist framework even to be considering these facts. We all learn the hard way to prefer to be judged with more severity than is necessary over being treated leniently by friends and family. When a culture goes soft the experience of the grave is harsher. Within an Animist culture we are conditioned to fear our own self whenever it is less than Human, so as to prevent us from harming life. Perhaps what determines that we are defined as Animists is only that we are able to make this a part of our outside self. What makes a Moslem a Moslem when fully converted is that similarity to which I am describing, that for Moslems is an aspect only of the inside self. But in far less need of fear, since to be known as Animists, is to have the worst about ourselves knowable by the outside world.

Shame is indeed the key to our culture. Though any Animist knows that accepting being culturally embedded within your own greed and hate are also essential aspects of Animism. But it is our management of pride that sets us apart from other Animist cultures. No tall poppies in Australia: Mr Steve Irwin could only have got away with that in America, and here, he is really just an ordinary bloke, just like he wanted really. It is the most notable aspect of modern Australian culture that is distinctly of Indigenous Australia, that if any person shows of too much, they get cut down. Nobody likes me being a Moslem, but that is probably only because they are trying to stop me going on ahead into Islam before everybody else is also ready to become knowable as long been a Moslem. Much of what I have mentioned about Kinship is from that form in which Traditions have better been upheld than the modern social forms of Kinship, but we all regard these lessons as retaining a critical nature. The codes of conduct in marriage are still very similar except where actual marriages are taking place outside of the established best suitability patterns that I have here described. Unfortunately it is that there has been a marked increase of unlawful marriages in very recent years, and such has been forced upon us by occultists whom were attempting to portray that Animist religion has such as its basis. It is that in many cultures people are only expected to become “turned into an animal” because they break with marriage laws; but among Aboriginal Australians it has always been the case for all of us. That is, for as long as we were being enabled to sustain our worth as I am here describing. There are shaytans among us who remember what they know in their minds to be an older pattern, but it was ever a wrongful pattern and is not what defines Aborigines as having any modern social worth. That Aboriginal shaytan have been portraying our worth in their faulted perceptions, has been causing a sale of our children and our health to the very process of invasion which they are trying to claim a debt owing against. However, this description I have given is of a harsh system of Law, in which only those truly Human of mind could ever have survived, and there are shaytan resentful about having been locked out of such systems by the nature of. Yet shaytan only ever can disprove their claims upon Human culture and Religion; therefore it is rightful that my description here excludes their disparities with such where they could dispute it. Theirs is the shame, but we absorb such of will as thereby are their means made told and knowable. I should add to all that is already stated, and for those persons in good self knownledge whom may read this, that Australians have a way with pride that is inimical to the Moslem way with vanity. A process of transpositions and transformations and gifts of Alms, through which our Animist base is able to be discerned as distinct from other belief in such phenomena. It is with considerable pride that we, true believing, Australians will adjust to the fact that Islam is our birthright, and our leaders are most often among the most silent of survivors of the nightmare of modern assaults upon reality, that assault that is letting us all know that The Hour is with even already our children.

Thankyou for your considerations of this, it is what is commonly regarded as the oldest surviving culture that I have described. It must be added that our survival has long been depended upon the fact that we governed our selves within these patterns by measures of iron-fisted leadership. Any leader need re-prove their leadership in every situation, and this fact has always been our way. Our leaders have most commonly been Men with a Rainbow Serpent Dreaming, and so I will tell some stories that are associated with this function. I hope that these stories can orient readers correctly also to the fact of the horror that we face in this day as being an experience we have been tempered by Allah to be first to face the full extent of. I should add in preface to the stories I will put in here that our most distinct mechanism of cultural survival has been that of listening to the stories of newcomers to our land, and replacing such with our own stories. We have factually aborbed much of what was not needed, but at that, are amid the facts of a society within an argument made by shaytans as to what were our own true stories in the first place. Therefore it is that I am require to preface this piece of writing with statements as to my authority in the telling. It is that all of our creation myths have a shaytans perferred version and a Human preferred version, and often it has been that those versions more often published have been the shaytans versions of our mythology. In my own telling of many of these it is that I am open to being accused by Aboriginal shaytans of stealing from their myths and differing from, but only in that they have letters and certificates of Aboriginality, while my own ancestry is not legally identified. The truth of the matter is simply that for each and every one of us, the stories are usually revealed indistinctly and it is that we are only culturally permitted to retell any story exactly as it is true to our own experience. So thereby I bear no objection to the Shaytans versions, and none could object to my naming Allah as Creator Spirit, and neither that Allah worked through Bhyame to initiate us. So in this I will tell that story of Bhyame's first initiation, but I will include only those details within which my own experience is bonded. Most certainly it is the fact, that now reading back, I am astonished at the degree to which my life has accorded to that story. I am using a version published in a collection by A.W. Reed, but I am providing only those parts which have direct relation to my own experience. I should add another important aspect of Aboriginal culture. It is held that if you can speak a word for a thing, then you must own that thing. So we tend to be of smaller vocabularies than many persons. But I ought to state the in the story I have retold of Bhyame's first initiation, I have leaned upon the names given in the rendition by A. W. Reed, in part because my own telling might seem even less kind, but I must express that there are many names in different Aboriginal languages that I am not oriented to as my own, and here in this story are a few of.

This is the story of the first initiation ceremony and the first Corroboree. It is from a time when Bhyame was a Man at Earth before He arose to Heaven and then returned, and when animals were still men. Bhyame was a Great Wirrun, or medicine man, through whom Allah will was enacted. He gathered all the people together from many distant places. As many tribes as there are the animals of the animal kingdom. There were: Wahn the Crow; Du-mer, the pigeons; Baiamul the Black Swans; Madhi the Dogs; and many others. Everbody was ready after months of perparation, and much business dealings were contracted.

After a few days Bhyame gathered everybody together and told them that it is good to have been enjoying each others company, but now the serious matters must commence. He told, you know what must be done because I have implanted these thoughts in your mind; and he described that initiation of men. There were other wirruns there helping him. Everybody set to work preparing the area for the event. Most worked quitely and silently, but often they were interrupted by senseless laughter and chatter of the Madhi tribe. Little notice was taken at first, for they are well known to be empty headed. Surely soon they would settle down. Occasionally they were instructed to be quite and work, but they took no notice. Eventually they were threatened, and they laughted contemptuously and swaggered around throwing insults, criticising, and being generally more and more rude the more they were frowned upon.

Bhyame observed the Madhi tribe closely. He too thought they would settle down because he knew they are afraid of the Wirruns. Eventually he decided to punish the Madhi. He told everybody that he was saddened by the behaviour of the Madhi, and that people could be happy by abiding within the law, but the Madhi were being proud and rebellious, not listening to wisdom, and making a mockery of an important occasion. Then he said: very well, they can get what they want, they may go on howing and laughing to their hearts content, and no longer would he give them the dignity of naming them among men. Go away madhi and howl. One by one the madhi dropped onto all fours, grew thick hair, and their hands and feet became paws. They tried to call out that they were sorry, but it was too late. They could only bark and howl. Scared by their own noises they ran away.

Now everyone was afraid of Bhyame. The next day some of the women were not grinding seeds into flour any more. He asked them why, worried that they were too afraid. They explained that all their grinding stones had gone missiing. He thought it was funny since only a woman can leave a grinding stone and no grinding stone ever left a woman. Bhyame suggested that they might have lent their grinding stones to the Du-mer. The woman said no, but Bhyame insisted, and the women, in fear, agreed to go an see. Du-mer said no, they did not have them, but the women heard thunder, and told Bhyame, so he came to find out why that sign had manifested, saying, perhaps I have done you an injustice. At the Du-mer camp Bhyame had his magic tools, and the Du-mer were not there. A woman with sharp eyes saw their grinding stones hidden. There was more loud noises and they all could see the grinding stone were visibly moving without any Humans, all moving across a plain to a mountain, and the Du-mer were chasing them. Gradually the Du-mer turned into pigeons in their chase. Allah manifested a mountain made only out of grinding stone.

Now the boys were put to the final test before entering manhood. They had already been pushed to the limits of what they supposed was their endurance, and yet had to endure more. Bhyame instructed: “my children must be strong, Strong to father sons, to care for their women, to overcome appetite and pain and fear. They must learn the wisdom of the tribes, the mystery of the water, and all the stars of Heaven, of winds that blow, the flight of the bee to its honey store, the food that is hidden in the Earth, and the seeing eye that can follo the light-footed trail of the kangaroo rat over the stoney ground; teach them.” And all the Wirruns taught the boys. A part of the stamina the boys had to develop was sustaining consciousness whilst without food and water for many days. Thus memories of older ways were lost to this, then new teaching. Also they were bitten by ants adding insult to injustice, but needed to sustain their self all the same.

Meanwhile the mothers decided to leave early because they did not want to meet their sons straight after such initiations. They did not want their sons to see their tears. So they headed for home. But they encountered a woman whom had been left behind on the way to the initiation ceremony. She swore. Her children had been too little and too many to keep up. She could not find water for them, and they had all died. She accused all of the other mothers, you were in too much of a hurry to wait for us, and you have killed my children, and with that, she began turning them all into trees, and turning herself into a tree also. Then more and more people came to see, and each and every one among began to be turned also into animals as they watched. The Baiamuls into Black Swans, etc. (There is a companion story about the Black Swans but I can not find it today; and it seems to have become that part of many of our stories which became too expensive to maintain; even as the name Baiamuls suggests. Though this name predates such expenses being known.)

After all the initiation ceremonies were over, and the boys were formally welcomed into manhood, the men began to follow the trail of the women and children. The trail was easy, and Bhyame's own dog ran ahead. But it lay down under bushes and gave birth to pups which had the head of the porcupine, and no body dared go near those fierce creatures. Bhyame was sad by the time he arrived back at his home, nobody was left. But Bhyame is old and wise, and knows that from evil comes good; and he knew that when the sharp memories the initiation were over that the world would be a richer place because of the presence of the plants and animals that had come from his great Corroboree.

That is all about that story now, and here is another, that is a story my son is the owner of:

There was a time of much drought. All the animals were dying. There was a man and his wife and his friend travelling. The woman said, we can eat these animals so we shall not starve. The men said no, it is wrong to eat meat, but she showed a way she had observed to cook meat. Her husband ate. The other man said, you eat or we will both starve, and he wandered away. After she had eaten her fill the woman worried for him and they followed him together, but they kept offering him meat to live by. He ran away and passed out of his body inside a hollow tree trunk, then some cockatoos came and rested in the branches. And the man and his wife witnessed a miracle that the man who would not eat meat arose into the sky as the southern cross.

Here is another that belongs where I am born:

There is a big kangaroo, and he looks all over for the best place for his family to live. He digs a bit too big hole in the riverbank to make a pool. It is too deep to swim in, but there is always plenty of drinking water for his family. After some time the dogs come. They chase the kangaroos family and all his clan dispurse. Eventually to get away from the dogs he jumps into that swimming hole, and at the bottom he is turned into the Rainbow Serpent. After a time a black headed snake appears on the rocks in the sunshine around the part of the river about that pool, and then a wallaby.

That is a story that my own life is commanded by, so I only tell the shortest version so that I can stay able to prevent others from using it against me. Here is another, but this one intrigues me, since archeological evidence is that dogs have only been in Australia for ten thousand years. There are also other stories about Australia having been a place of only birds before all the animals came here, but I don't tell those stories since they are not mine. But this part is:

There was an animal who wanted to be better than all the other animals, so he prayed to Allah that he would be the best. Allah put a spell on him so that the dogs began to chase him. He was chased and chased and chased, and to no avail, he could not get away from that dog. All over the country he was chased. Then just when he though he could go no further, on both back legs together he bounded and rapidly hopped away from the dog, but the dog had its teeth into his tail and pulled. But the dog pulling his tail stretched it out longer until he realised that was how he had learned to hop. That is how the Kangaroo got its tail.

So I hope you can discern more about our culture from these stories. If you have a true interest in learning more about Aboriginal culture I can suggest any publications from the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies AIATSIS, and also any films that are available and made by Aboriginal Australians, but especially “Yolngu Boy” and “Ten Canoes”. The National Museum of Australia in Canberra is also a new and significant educational experience in respect of Aboriginal culture.

What is missing from modern Australians psychology is really only that piece of stablising dogma in establishing what among all our Dreams is needing to be believed in, and what can be dismissed as fuel for the fire; but our tradition has these details in sound teaching provided. Where we are these days unable to connect with traditional mythology after our childhood's are regressed into the retarded mental capacity of the west, (that has become necessary in this time so as to establish scientific method above occult), we are able nevertheless to connect with ecological science and often as adults make random enquiry into the nature of many different belief structures, as though searching for evidence of what we have lost. And we retain our strong faith in Human narratives as the means of communication. In that the rainbow serpent is an embodiment of our establishing traditions, we are yet very focussed upon the correct time sequencing of stories. In this the work of traditional Aborigines is amply apparent at many turns in the modern Australian experience. But far today from all being co-counselling narrative therapists, we are often manifesting in extremes of the fall of Humanity. But in my own experience having found an Islamic teaching that lifted my own life up and out of similar, I find I can not progress through any Islamic experience without dragging all those who have only not yet found a modern structured Faith within which to validate our experiential wealth as I here describe. So it is that while I must accept to my self the burden of this form of expression of Aboriginality having been made, it is also that any benefits from this expression belong to all Aboriginal Australians whom have sustained faith in Allah. Their Faith also has sustained mine, but most often without their knowing whom they have been sustaining. Insha Allah my representation of our way is enough to commend to Moslems to make further enquiry. But I might also add that the very best means of such enquiry is only to make your own business needful of interacting within Australia's Tradition.

Mu’asalam

[Woodrow]

Sister I find your post to be very interseting. However, it is a bit lengthy for discussion. I believe this will be much clearer if just one or 2 paragraphs at a time are discussed. I Suggest we begin with the first paragraph only.

What is the belief of the Australian Aborigines? - 9 Hours Ago

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Alaikumassalam,

It is mentioned to me that there could be users of this forum whom may like to know more certainty of Australian Aboriginal culture, and that perhaps a thread in which I can be questioned about Aboriginal culture could be found reason for. The suggestion coincides with a concern that I have about the way in which Aboriginal Australians are and are not enabled to interact with persons from other cultures, and so I have commenced such a thread. But I am beginning with a lengthy essay, so in time perhaps there may be questions that I am not yet aware of needing answers. The work is about fifteen A4 pages, and made in only one draft, so if there are any confusing passages with faulted punctuation, alert me and I can provide better. There are a few short expressions of a foundation mythology at the end, and I am wary to provide any that are not in accord with Qur'an, yet also aware that such are the only true measure of being able to genuinely teach of the culture that is.

[Woodrow]

An area of concern for me is the mythology that seems to make up a Large part of your. culture.

There are a few short expressions of a foundation mythology at the end, and I am wary to provide any that are not in accord with Qur'an, yet also aware that such are the only true measure of being able to genuinely teach of the culture that is.

Could you explain how the Mythology is kept from interfering with Islamic Teachings?

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

Well, surely it is that there is no possiblity of preventing any mythology from interfacing with Qur'an! Qur'an and ahadith must supplant all existing mythology that is not already in accord with.

However I will tell you up front that the whole of my instruction within Aboriginal culture is an instruction into the psychology of a scientific comprehension of the stories we live true to that are usually held to be mythology. In Aboriginal Australia our stories are strictly regulated and very close already to Qur'an. You may be regarding that mythology is a term that defines the stories that shaytan make rather than the truth. But it is that the stories that are true and real for Aboriginal Australians have been relegated to the realm of a mythology. From that perspective most of us are looking around a the whole world of "MYTHOS" and are thinking to ourselves, "look over there in the Middle East, they believe in the same reality as us!" ; so it is that I am using the word mythology a little different from they way you are.

Factually most of Qur'anic teaching is regarded within the mainstream west as "mythology" also, is it not? So as Muslims we surely must all consider every distinct cultures own stories from within the framework of direct comparison between those stories and Qur'an and ahadith, rather than from any perspective that tries to define any set of stories as lesser than others by defining as "mythology".

Mythos is essential. It is what we all beleive yet are unable to express. Qur'an is miraculous by expression of the most important aspects of Mythos. So perhaps if you had asked only: "is there a truly scientific process by which you are affirming which aspects of Australian Aboriginal Mythos are reality according to Allah's breath of Qur'an"; then I can answer. Yes. In fact already I have been reminded of that exact science and prepared a new post that I will place after this one.

Frankly, I do not believe that the whole of my post can be broken up without taking it out of culture. But it makes sense that a Muslim would want to work it like that so as not to be impinged upon by any aspect of what I write that might be non-Islamic. So for now I can only state that I have written at all times within a critical framework that adheres to Islam.

Insha Allah any Muslim will be able to read my descriptions of Australian Aboriginal cosmology without experiencing any negative impact upon their own comprehension of the real world in Allah, according to Qur'an and ahadith.

So I then should make that new post next. All the while understanding that it must be a substantial commitment of either interest or Human kindness, to accomodate reading the entirety of any of these posts. But nobody is forced to want to know.

Mu'asalam

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[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam (this is written today, the day after opening the thread, but before reading Woodrow's posts and making the reply in the immediately preceeding post)

I have now slept upon the matter of the essay I wrote yesterday as the first post in this thread. There are a number of additional comments I need to place here. Take heart in the fact that in this post I will write further to the obvious fall that is our first initiation. That we all just land in the pot of “we are all just too bad to be Human beings” really is not enough to substantiate any culture. But really what I am here reporting to is that there are immediate repercussions in my own life to having posted the description of our culture that I gave yesterday. Mainly in having used another writers description of Bhyame's first initiation, but that reveals an aspect of the nature of that story.

First is that: I may not have made as precise as I am able, that an integral part of Aboriginal culture is that no person may assume ownership of any story, nor act upon any story as though their own, without have both been given the story within the world of empirical evidence, and also having already Dreamed the story. It is that when a person Dreams in any specific story, (bearing in mind that we are all inclined to Dream in only that story which our mitochondrial DNA prescribes, that is, unless shaytan interfer), that story is what can manifest within the world of bodily sensiblity. Once a person begins to Dream in any story then they find the evidence of that story, yet also if they are not already Dreaming in the right story for their own bones, they can be verbally given the right story, that they can Dream it, and then begin to manifest within it. But to place belief in any story as real it must be both Dreamed and experienced in only that empirical evidence that is receptive. Therefore, once Aborigines begin to listen to Qur'an, even without any translations, our stories that concurr with Qur'an, and then also ahadith, are those that become most prevalent. In a distressing way it is that only through ahadith are we enabled to reconcile our existing mythology with Qur'an. However, we are a culture that has always been sustained by attending to the presence of the Jinn among us. A Wirrun whom is described as a powerful Wirrun, is a Jinn, when in proper definition, although there are of course as many false wirrun as there are shaytan. Ordinarily a good Wirrun is like any good Shaman, but more often of a Snake story than a Lizard.

I mention these matters here simply because it is already occuring in my own immediate experiences subsequent to making any mental associations between my self as a white skin person, and being able to express any teaching correctly within Aboriginal culture, that shaytan are trying to disprove what I am teaching as being properly Aboriginal. It was only to be expected really; especially since they work to the purpose of manifesting only white skin. Such manifestations factually enable me to reveal what it is that shaytans will attempt in order to thwart the process of Aborigines fully culturally adapting our stories within Qur'an.

The management of pride within Aboriginal culture, in a way that prevents any man from expressing very much pride without becoming publically shamed, is enabling that shaytan always expose their tricks. Yet such requires that the whole population accept that there is no measure by which any Human can live within Humanity of mind without first existing in the form of an animal. The ideal is to at all times pay through fire for every anticipated fall in advance of falling. That is why Australians are more enabled to accept The Hour of Judgement ahead of other races, and in knowledge that we may even yet need to pay through fire further than only once. Yet we, by no measure believe in any such thing as re-incarnation. I may never again manifest with this self, and its perception of the world and what is realisable, but only trust in Allah that my entire being may meet fire, and only what Allah alone knows is essential of my self to know reality with, can be saved; it is only that every good Human manifestation requires a payment of transition through fire in advance, and that I will continue to live through death; but perhaps only without knowing how I am able to thus continue; that is, by sacrificing the very certainty in how we can manifest as Human beings, only are we enabled to manifest as a Human being. Thereby we are in certain Faith. This is how we readily accept Jesus.

There is the fact that today there happen to be more shaytans existing whom are reporting to own Aboriginal culture and identity than there were at the time of Bhyame's first initiation. Therefore it seems that the overarching scheme to draw shaytan here into a trap has been successful. But at this time the cost is not being accounted accurately. It is that shaytan are being believed in their attempts to falisfy Aboriginal culture. For example, there are very many shaytan whom attempt to presribe what stories from the Dreamtime are being taught at this time, and there are many of the more unnecessarily frightening stories available, and less of the real teaching stories. Any person with black skin and an acceptance by other persons with Aboriginal culture can portray what ever they please as a story belonging to the Dreamtime; while white Australians are being relegated to the identity of neo-nazis for so much as engaging in the empirical study of anthropology. Yet more of the white population are adhereing the structure of our life stories to the correct Dreamtime mythology, but being prevented from telling about such within Aboriginal contexts. The aspect of this circumstance that must be put an end to is that the whole picture is manifesting as extremes of racism against persons with black skin. The shaytan with a black Aboriginal identification tend to want such so as to claim that they are owed vast sums of money without needing to work, but money that is non-existant. There are many such claims and some are valid, but these claims are not connected with colour of skin nor expressions of having been hurt. The reality is that any debts owed are owing to persons both black and white whom have been working within the pattern of connecting the culture of the Dreamtime with modern Islam, but whom have had the work robbed. Here is an example: in 2002 I gave a gift of two collections of Dreamtime mythology to two persons whom work among the Canberra Gurdjieff society, in whose home I had been openly welcomed; they accepted the gifts as from a friend, but then named myself as insane for believing that they ever regarded me in any friendship; and I later discovered that many Aboriginal shaytan, both white and black, are according themselves credit for having prevented those exact translations of Dreamtime mythology from attaining prevalence. While the versions that are prevalent have portions missing. Those collected by Roland Robinson are the set I prefer, while those stories I could find in the public library, collected by A.W. Reed are a collection made in collusion with an effort by Rosicrucians to establish that Bhyame is The Dajjal. Of course he is not, but while ever people are using the wrong stories his story is manifesting Him within that function. But really what is the worst of the picture, since Bhyame himself is likely to meet The Hour of His Judgement well enough for his initiation to retain credibility, is that the black skin racial genetic is in need of work done to protect it in its active expression as a recessive genetic.

There are of course many different sets of Dreamtime mythology that have been collected, and it is of course impossible to readily discriminate which are sustaining to the black skin genetic and which are not without two facts. First is the knowledge of which are oriented to Qur'an, and second is in experience of living within these stories and perceving where within each on racism is being expressed. Racism is of course, in its every expression, black magic. First and formost we are needing to remind the Aboriginal youth that not every association with the word “black” is to the benefit of black skin persons, as such is what they are being encouraged in, and is portionally why Aboriginal cuture has been so easily typecaste as engaging in black magic.

This morning I looked up the story of how the Swans became black because it is a critical part of the whole picture. Within that story all the trouble that is existant at this time is expressed. But first I ought also tell that within the Roland Robinson collection of stories, that is factually widely read, but not so supported by publishers as the A.W. Reed collection, it is that in the story of Bhyame's initiation, Bhyame himself forgives the woman who is left behind with all the children, and is named as who turns everybody into animals for having left her behind, but in that, also turning her and the children in to animals so as to temper them to what they must endure from others in their community. Was it by turning even the children into animals that He was successful in turning all others into animals? Is this the concurrance with Qur'an?
Most significantly the A.W. Reed collection mentions a character named Yhi as a female creator spirit, but within a picture of Bhyame never forgiving that mother who was left behind. While in my own Dreams he always eventually forgives her, and Allah is the only creator.

The story of the black swans relates to the same string of stories as has Jason and the Golden Fleece; but the Golden Fleece is named as the best weapons. At the start of the story, as it is in the A.W. Reed Collection, Wahn the Crow, who is the main male character, has travelled for a thousand and one days and nights across a vast desert, around the back of the Mountain that is the last resting place of Bhyame, (known as the Glass House mountains here in Queensland), and over a lake to a place where woman camp. There the women are busy making the best weapons available. They have no animals. Occasionally they trade some weapons for food from the men but never meet them.

Now it is that at this time what I have witnessed is that Wahn the Crow's story has been taken by a few too many different men, and that the only one of whom actually managed to travel the one thousand and one days and nights, travelled in the wrong direction and never made it into the modern Aboriginal context and failed in the first instance to remember his evidence of the women being Aborigines. While the man whom was most assisted as the true Wahn the Crow fell off the story by using herion, and another Wahn the Crow stepped into his place; but whom never needed to travel nearly so many days and nights to find the women's camp and access those weapons. So this is where the story is going wrong. (This can connect with the fact of longer term assistance provided to Aboriginal Australia through the Gurdjieff Society in Canberra having been all used up by the wrong persons before it was ever provided; and then distinct assistance provided from Islam to my self, yet again through the Gurdjieff oriented work, between Easter 2004 and Easter 2006, having been received by my self between Easter 2001 and Easter 2003, and enabling me to recover during the exact time in which the stories were first being corrupted around me by the wrong persons portraying themselves as the main characters in the stories. These facts are causal to the work to re-establish Aboriginal Kinship structures having been radically corrupted through the Aboriginal tent embassy; yet aligned with a longer term plan to use the tent embassy as a honey trap for catching shaytan. But here I am sure most non-traditional black Aboriginal persons would work to cause that I am proven to be a liar in this, since that honey is so very tasty.)

The rest of the story about the black swans is about what Wahn the Crow witnessed and what he did about it. He thought it odd that the woman had no men, and told them that he had seen men were on the way. He went and spied on those men to find out what they wanted from the women. It must be remembered that he is very very clever to have managed to get his way into the women's camp. (An early Aboriginal convert to Islam.) The men already had animals and were heading towards the women's camp to entrap the women so as to steal the weapons. They were travelling with the Swans whom had offered to assist them. The subtext is that the Swans are, of course, the workers of black magic, but that they had convinced the men that the women did the bad magic, and that their magic was true. The men used the Swans as a decoy, then attracted the women across the lake with the animals as bait, leaving the animals available for food, knowing that the women had none of their own. Now Wahn the Crow had foreknowledge of this. He asked the men and they had told him exactly their intentions. He felt that he should tell the women, but he liked the men better, but only since he himself is male and since he had not travelled the thousand and one nights necessary, he had not yet counted how the women were managing. (The women were too good he supposed and must be hiding something bad that they had done, but in that he was tricked by the Swans himself; and is in trouble with the Imam he pronounced Shahada to.) This is where this story is up to in the life of the main characters in this time.

The next part in the mythology of Aboriginal Australia, is that Wahn the Crow first witnessed some of the men turning into white swans, and then distracting the women while the men left the animals as bait. But what the Swans did to distract the women is really very terrible, and is the same deed they had long repeatedly done which caused the desert between the men and the women. Sure enough the women came to get that meat, and the men stole the weapons. Then an old Arch Rival of Wahn the Crow, named as Mulyan, began to help the women by picking out all the Swan's feathers. But Wahn then helped the Swans by dropping for them his black feathers.
That is where the story, as it is told finishes. But I suspect it is only out of sequence in this Aboriginal version. As I have reported, I have read other versions, and it has been difficult to find which it is that is the original within the ethnographic evidence. That is where it is essential that we learn and adhere to Qur'an; but only as had already begun. There already are among Aboriginal Australians, both black and white, persons whom have Dreamed of a time when those whom could recite Qur'an arrived in Australia.

Here is another story then. Is is about how Wahn the Crow became a Star. First I should tell that Wahn has a dreadful reputation since he is credited with having been who stole the Eagle's wife, and that is how his feathers blackened in the first place when he was forced then to swallow fire. Wahn was miserable because of his dreadful reputation. Every time he tried to mend his ways he got back into mischief because he never took the right wife! In truth He is an honourable fellow but just can't help from acting like the swans. He came across another bird. Some stories tell it is a swamp hawk, and other a parrot, depending up where the story is set. He decided to cheer himself up by tricking that bird. Remembering how he had defeated Mulyan, he planted sharp objects in the sand and waited until that bird jumped on them and hurt its foot. All the other birds came to help, but not Wahn, who just wandered around with his hands behind his back. In the story in which a swamp hawk was hurt, the sharp objects transformed into an claw that helps it to catch its prey. In the story in which a parrot is hurt, when it recovers, all its pain becomes the colours upon all the birds. The birds want to punish Wahn, but find that they are only able to cheer him up by explaining how his bad deeds have come to good purpose. Then Bhyame himself comes down and asks Wahn to join Him in his own place in the sky, and Wahn becomes a Star. As the events of these stories have been unfolding Wahn came to the women's camp before he had earned becoming a star; and the problem is clearly manifest as alcohol consumption, so in that the whole is supporting Islam.

But also here I should tell that last night I Dreamed how the Swans are trying to trick my own self. I had portrayed myself to them as a simpleton so they have been less sophisicated than they might have been in their work to trick me. They, (Swans of course are shaytan, and more properly described as Ant people, who in the mythology try to show themselves as though they had fire before The Jinn.), provided myself with a curious set of Dreams last night. Including one in which I am supposed to attend to this post in this thread today, and to include in it that one day along came Frodo Baggins into the Aboriginal Dreamtime and saves everybody from needing to swallow fire for taking the wrong wife; and all the white Aborigines go on a big search for a giant eye to worship; while the blacks are saved by Frodo, (or should it be rather that Wahn is Gollum the Haadjmo?) However, I recommend that Lord of the Rings is not relied upon in any of its characterisations or sequencing; even when some of its events are very reminiscent of that we all Dream.

So there I should tell that of course it is an aspect of Aboriginal culture to believe in stories as realisable, and because of this fact it is that we need often to dismantle the many stories that arrived with invasion, breaking them into component parts and placing them back where they belong. One of my sons has made his own attempt a few years ago already, to relate the Lord of the Rings back into Norse mythology. But of course it is that we are all, when able to realise such work, working according to only Qur'an and ahadith.

Why I am today posting again in this thread may highlight that the work of shaytan is trying constantly and with increasing intensity, to undermine the work of Humanity. The terror of shaytan is real. Yet also it is real, and far more tangibly real, that we are all being protected. The accounts against all of us in our falls to shaytan are so enourmous that we can not account individually for what we owe in each electricity switch used; by living while driving a car, we must accept we exist only by Allah having given us already certainty of redemption. Yet also it is my intention to highlight an aspect of Aboriginal culture that is inimical with Islam. The science. Why is it indeed that I am disabled from describing, or teaching, or revealing Aboriginal culture, within any internet forum, without such an act providing into the very nature of what is manifesting as our culture? This is a significant question that I should not want to be able to answer. Yet we all must manifest acceptance that no system can be scientifically examined without making an impact within that system. Such is the nature of any real scientific comprehension. The insanity of the ideology of 'the west' is to every try to attempt to isolate any facts as observable, distinct from altering those facts by the energy invested in attempting to isolate the facts. The facts can not be isolated from other facts which we are not certain to. Only Allah knows. We can not know that a fact is a fact from outside of the system in which it is a fact. Neither can the facts be observed without using energy to observe and thus effecting the energy of the total system. Therefore it is that Aboriginal culture is in a natural state of flux only by the fact that we are living in a place in which the totality of the population is not yet in agreement as to what is real. So at best, all any of us can describe of our own culture is: what I am believing now of my outside self; what I have been experientially and culturally lead to believe in as ideal; and distincly, what parts of what exists now, that I regard as necessarily having no place in Jannah.

In these facts, I must express that I believe that all Humanity is indebted to every Muslim whom is engaging in placing reports of the facts of Islamic Faith within the internet context. Truly every portion of what is expressed by the means of electricity will be taken through the fire if not able to belong in Jannah. Insha Allah not so very much of what I have written will be my own fire to swallow; since every man who played Wahn the Crow, who stole the Eagle's wife, while I hide away making weapons, was certainly not wrong in pursuing my self since I am a crow's wife.

If I add any further now, it would take this thread outside of Aboriginal culture, so that is that; at nobody yet having given me an animal, has a good place within my own cultural tradition as an Aboriginal Australian. (Though clearly I found a few that some other folk had left lying around.)

I hope you all enjoy learning about Aboriginal Australia, and find its worth is true and truly within Islam. Mu'asalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

For anybody needing to orient what I am reporting about our culture back into the Australian mainstream, try looking up the following link to my first efforts at communication the specific cultural outlook within a mainstream Australian media internet forums site, at: http://cracker.com.au/threads.aspx?categoryid=11281

There are a few threads there of interest from the perspective of wondering what the modern Australian mainstream attitude to Islam genuinely is.

Thereupon I have also remembered another aspect of Aboriginal culture that ought to be here reported. It relates to that teaching that is described in the story of Bhyame's first initation, in respect of the honey of the bees. Since it is an esoteric teaching, in that I can not reveal fully my own knowledge of in this context, I will have to just write to the facts of the birds and the bees, although I seem to retain a hybrid culture my self even within such.

When it comes to teaching about the birds and the bees, it is that I have been helped along considerably by many. The whole of such teachings can equittably be summed up by the simplicity of the bees knees. I have an acquaintance who works for the Australian Reserve Bank, and whom at University, while earning a first class honours in economics, also enjoyed the opportunity of examining bees knees directly under a microscope. After that experience he related to a group of us that he had learned also about a farm in the USA where the bees had been suspiciously gathering honey flavoured by trees outside of a days flight, at bee range. As soon as microtransmitters were made available small enough for a bees back they were attached and attuned. The bees were catching freight trains every day, to far off pollen, and returning in the evening on a later train. So it is with that story under my belt that I began my own learning about birds and bees.

These stories are rather critical at this time since the bird people are getting about trying to establish that their tradition is the true tradtion of Bhyame's first initiation. While the bee people are milling about planning to turn all the birds into Ants. Well, ants take care of dead bees more effectively than birds can, so why not?

While I myself am manifesting something like a bumble bee with brolga legs and Wedge-tail Eagle wings, I should properly state that in this I am somewhat outside of Aboriginal culture, since nobody is actually allowed to manifest such phenomena as any animal that mixes its body with another. But then, my Dad's ancestral Dreaming is inclusive of the Sphinx. So while I hybridise I can tell you that any talk about the birds and the bees is not proper for a female to provide, except to her daughters. At at that it is always in instructions as to what to observe and not more.

However, since my Father has been stripped of his actual culture, and I had a Dream that he was falling to The Dajjal, I should make his worth better known; in that he is unlikely to get on the computer and provide of Him self in the manner that is proper for him to. The patrilineal patterns of marriage alliances are made most properly by a bird always marrying a bee and a bee always marrying a bird. But here is the critical key. If your mother is a bird, then you are a bee, and if she a bee, then you are a bird. We are all in an alternating structure between being birds and being bees. So even shaytans are brought down to the ground and prevented from flight. When shaytan are not allowed to be birds, they sure are bad, and anybody could realise by study of the insect world.

So for those who are not familiar with using the birds and the bees as an entymology of human comprehension, I should explain. Birds tend to take flight mentally, retain memory of mental imagery more readily, and dislike being brought down; they Dream a fact before they find the empirical evidence, so are susceptible to seeking the evidence overly, rather than waiting until it slaps you in the face. But a bird can land trouble because they might have read their Dreams wrong. Bees on the other hand, tend rather to meander into empirical evidence, then just happily wait, feeding the birds all the while, until a Dream slaps 'em in the face (usually because the birds want better honey). These are a significant facts, and that this teaching is retained in Australia is significant also. Mostly, when let to fall into patterns of desire alone, without cultural implanting of the teaching about the honey of the bees, the pattern that occurs is that Bird people are Souls of who first came into Human physical form after the first fall of Jannah, and the Bee people are who were longer without a Human body. Sort of like the difference from one ice age to the next for those who can reconcile those times with Human biological stories. When that pattern is not challenged the birds get the better of the bees, but only because the birds have a shorter term perspective. While bees are more likely to have retained memory of the night than they ever let on.

Australian culture takes its teaching patterns from a cultural basis most like that of India in managing pride and sloth. Yet within a Chinese way of managing greed. But then with all the Ants here, it can only be that we are most adept at managing hate without violence, and with violence keeping it to a minimal degree. No visitor to Australia could fail to notice our interestingly manifest predicament with the insect population, so even if we are overrun by shaytan from all corners of the globe, we obviously are doing half bad at conditioning them all to our way. What a pity about the tourism industry! To put the whole of what I have posted at its most blunt: if you are an Australian and you take any pleasure what so ever in any amount of hate, the bees swarm you with more and more offers of more of that exact substance, until you feel so sick of yourself that you will beg for Allah. That is, in large part, why Australians are suspicious of the veil as a part of Hijab, because everybody wants to see her if she is enjoying hating men by tempting them, so as to rub her nose in herself. We are still only in the first generation of clothes that aren't, so I reckon decently covered women ought to give Australian chicks a chance to prove our way. (But I say that from within the safety of my whitest head cover, that is a gift from a local Pakistani Muslim family, whose young daughter I ought to thank, since the evening I met her she was wearing black and announcing importantly how very happy she is that I am Muslim. Alongside the young black Aboriginal children whom reassured their parents that I am within black culture because the were not frightened by me, when scared of all other white persons, and also my own three sons; it has been, at every turn only children, who have let me know that I am.)


Having jam packed this post now with a number of stray thoughts, and with a new feeling that in all the posts I have made in various forums there is a complete work that needs to be compiled and written out in a reconciled form,
I hope that I won't be having to keep up with making another post after every Prayer time reminds me of another part of the teaching that is in need of an immediate external expression, well not for too much longer. I should then identify that my strategy of accomplishing some work while there are many shaytan trying to prevent that very work, has been to place it within public contexts immediately, so that it is not completely lost as each day my memories are eroding. But in that, I have an excellent self remembering function still retained, so while I might not know much from about the world in general, I can not in an way retain consciousness of carnal mind, without being in a state of remembering my self; and since so much energy is required for sustaining such with many shaytan speculating upon my own belonging, it is some considerable relief when ever any person whom has any interest, will consider these matters of my self and the sustaining of Australian Aboriginal culture. The most recent identity I have is that of an Aussie Mussie Gubborigine. (A Gubbah is a white fella; and a Gubborigine is an Aborigine white fella, well inside black culture; and a Mussie is a Muslim in Australia; while Aussie means only that I insist upon being regarded as no less a part of the Australian mainstream for these facts; but as to what that makes the Australian mainstream is anybody's guess, but it surely has always included a good few cows; and since my Father named me Rebecca, Rivaq being Hebrew for Heifer, I guess He is redeemable for the fact of having left me unprotected from shaytan and having learned esoteric knowledge before marriage; But Australian shaytan sure are shafting old Bhyame into the place of The Dajjal more forcefully than He could ever realistically have manifested contemptlation of the deed of, but as all the rosicrucian money seems to be on.)
Mu'asalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

but why should I need here again to post so soon! (I am taking heart in the number of veiws of the thread, but please question me upon any small part even that you have read as woodrow suggests)

It is that I could not leave the thread at that place of having mentioned The Dajjal, but we are nothing, us Aborigines, if not able to acknowledge that we are experiencing nightmares of its appearance since our land has been invaded. But question only when the fourty year reign begins so as to wonder upon its end. Bear with also the fact that I am only safe in knowing of it because I am no man. And since I mentioned its manifestation alongside that there exist also shaytan, there is a following sequence of associations, and again with direct relevance to my immediate life sequences, which can be revealed as the way through the consequence.

This is typical of Aboriginal culture. Everytime folk get together to discuss any matter, the discussion is recognised as contributing to the actual matter being discussed, and it is normal for it to require days and days of sit down discussions only to all agree as to what the issue is that is being discussed. This is no small measure of our social economy in its traditional structure.

There are two things piling upon me in relation to having expressed this thread. First my father listened to me and believed me for the first time in years, in that I have been endangered by organised crime. Second, my children are in immediate danger, that that situation has escalated. So I should place it within the the context of Aboriginal Australia.

I was raised in a family of white, and non-idenfitying Aborigines. Then when encouraged to identify, and after I had expreienced my mainstream white Aussie identity being stripped from me through the work of the Gurdjieff society, and without their having replaced what they took with any identification what-so-ever (they report now(?) that back in 1999 when they performed an 'experiment' upon my psychology, that it was forgotten to give my my Moslem identification), so I had not enough external identity, I began to overtly adopt the identity of my ancestral heritage, that of an Aborigine. But in that act my children have been removed from my custody, like so very very many Aboriginal women. This is a pattern that has been occuring since 1788 when Australia was invaded. First they just killed babies, and then the removed them to train them to be slaves, and then the began to tell us that it was to protect the children that they removed them. So, in the real immediate situation, it is no small affair that I have begun to express my self within my Aboriginality. My children's father, an Irish shaytan, asserts his right thereby to remove the children from my protection. My children are all true believers and most put upon by their father and his girlfriend. At 11, 8, and 5, the began to wash their own clothes and help make dinner regularly. The are given no privacy and are being over exposed to their father and step-mothers intimate relations. I believe that they are psychologically abusing the children to prevent them from reporting the matter to the appropriate authorities, and have set myself up to seem as the guilty party, in which I have had no family protection, again because of my Aboriginal identifiction. Let me just leave that matter aside for a while, but the general picture of what has been done to Aboriginal children by the invasion of Australia has a mass relevence to our culture and its modern manifestations.

It is the case that I received in the past twelve hours a report of historic fact. That in around the year 1720, some fifty years before the arrival of white persons in Australia, a large quantity of new arrivals of Bird people preceeded the white invaders. The fact is that I can verify this. It is also that there are a considerable number of persons with black skin, and presenting as Aboriginal, whom are Bird people and not adhereing to the cultural pattern which I described of alternating generations of bird persons and bee persons. Where there are none of these bird people our cultural tradtions are best retained. VERY Significantly, it is also that such persons have been evidenced to be colluding with very recent arrivals from Britain, yet who are within delusional belief of themselves as having been the exact persons whom commited the atrocity of holocaust. This is the social condition that is being played out on Australia's streets. The Theosophical society is supporting such interactions, and I have placed my own reputation at risk by entering their meetings to obtain evidence of this, but have empirical evidence.

Now, in this general picture of the Birds and the Bees, as I have described, it is the Muslim culture supports that all persons adopt a Bee self. Yet it is also that shaytan refute, and continue in bird selves even as Muslims. Now while it is strictly against Islamic Law for any person to manifest as a bird, this is that I am describing a social advantage in a sacrifice of the credibility of a portion of the population by enabling a bird self to exist. Aboriginal Australians track record of managing shaytan is that all the indigenous shaytan are long gone already actualising existing as Ants. This is no small feat, and clean truth. Native shaytan are already transformed into small black insects that raid picnics. Well, in fact, there are a few, of the newly arrived bird people, who were trees awhile, and then become Human again, and from that will, more readily be enabled to become Ants. They are those whom have been already culturally integrated. But not all have been just yet. The pattern by which half the population, defined through Paternal clans, adopts the bird type self that shaytan like, is that we let a half of our population fall into such pleasure, so as that shaytan relax into the pattern of alternating between being birds and being bees. The function, is quite clearly that we all pay more heavily in Allah, but that we eradicate shaytan from the Human form. However the whole story of children having been stolen is existant because we have had to accomodate more shaytan than we could afford. I will forgive no shaytan what they have done to Aboriginal children, except only in that I will forgive them of presuming to adopt a Human form that they will never be able to again. Our culture is gentle in its Human manifestations of such. We accept that hatred can be expressed as denial of the reality of wanting to kill such persons, and we are most often very very nice to them, but at what expense? My ex-partner, father of my children, whom befriended me whilst I was very unwell with a prolapse, and then worked to keep me in that state; has based a legal case against me on two points: that I am insane to adopt a black skin persons culture as a white skin person; and that I am a child rapist because I verbally instructed my sons to rinse their penises under cold water after urination. The Australia court system has been assuming that I am a criminal and a shaytan and am happy in the situation, and am demonstrating insanity by pressuring the court to take action, but that I would prefer to sustain a false diagnosis of insanity so as to receive a government pension. No matter how strenuously I have refuted such, I was not being believed. Yet this is the pattern of our management of shaytan, to trick them into supposing that we are as corrupt as they are. The fault in this must be retained by my Father, since He has refused to address the evidence that I am not yet in wedlock, and rather believed my mother in a fall to some black shaytan telling lies about me. Mum is a bird and Dad a bee, like me.

So here, in the total final pattern that is being played out, I can reveal why I am now making these posts. I have been experiencing Dreams for some time that one of my children is murdered by their father, yet this is the first moment I have manifested any acknowledgment of. There were worse Dreams, and that I describe the least terrible. In the past twenty four hours I have begun to experience this fear differently, and with a degree of physical manifestation in my own health in actively forgiving the one of my three sons whom is that fallen to the trick of black magic of The Evil One. I felt a ferocious hunger for red meat. Within the pattern of our culture, I ate half a kilo of Kangaroo, then lay down and went to sleep, Dreaming of my son crying for help in terror of what his father is accusing him of. I awoke in an astonishing Dream. If it were not for the fact of, I could not be expressing any of this.

I came into my sensiblity, and with a mental recall of the Dreams I have been in, at a place in America, on a rocky shelf overlooking a large city in a valley. But it was all asleep, and I and an American I was in the company of, were Dead. We were having a discussion about this place as an American manifestation of the Valley of the Dead. The American was asking me why is Uluru so important, because surely here also, on this American rock, there is ample opportunity to perceive the way through the fire. In the Dream, I had passed already, and again, through the passage of, with conscious recall intact. The American wanted me to make a poem about America's Valley being important, and so I commenced to compose a poem. The poem was placing the Dreams of such within the context of Sunnah, and never overt. But then I woke up worried because I had already composed so many lines that I knew I would not be able to retain any of in my mental capacity to remember. I wanted to write down what I had written, but by the time I was arosed to the full consequence of the fact that I was Dreaming far into the future, and that now today, there is an internet site through which I have begun such patterns of communication, I could not remember any word of the poem, except that I was seeking for a verbal description other than "Upon Sunnah" for one line, since there has been a web site with that name, but I could find no better.

Now I should tell why I can relate this. That I have Dreamed of arising out of the Valley of the Dead in an American location, tells that The Jinn here in Australia have accounted completely for every shaytan here being held to account, and every Soul being counted and helped through the passage of fire. My external mind can not bear the full knowledge of such accounts, and the terror of, but it can bear to know that the accounts are made, and the pattern is set, that we Australians, are ready as an entire Nation for the fire to be the only way left. That is, the saved are all also with a portion of ourself, perhaps only accepted in forgiving others, but that will be taken to the fire. There is not one Soul left counted as a citizen of Australia whom has not been accounted in full in their redemption. So it is a positive Dream I have experienced, despite that there is a tragedy awaiting, and that I have not yet full report of. But then, Steve Irwin's death is a marker by which all Australian's are in wait. And now then also I can recommend in the clarity of open expression, that not one of he shaytan who have overridden our capacity to absorb their hatred escape. As a mother, none could be existing within the knowledge that many Aboriginal mothers bear, of what our children have been forced to endure, without wanting that we all endure the fire. There are very recent media reports of active child rapists assaulting the community of Traditional owners at Uluru, that are only recently made open and available to the media. But in our culture, no such report could be made until the passage of preventing any further occurances has been clearly already Dreamed and evidenced as real.

So, the I will answer, what is so special about Uluru? It is a big rock, and is a portion of the Earth's crust exposed, with another site bearing it's other end at katajuka, a lesser known place, but at which cannabalism is reported to be the consequence of any matter of law breaking. The story of Uluru tells that those who own it become rocks. But even these facts are not explicit enough. The owners tell all tourists not to climb the rock since people die. The harsh reality is that no person can touch the rock without the external mind becoming exposed to certain knowledge of the fire of Hell. This is an empirical fact. So it can be comprehended thus that our culture is a culture of belonging to a place in which there is no escaping the fear of your own self. Insha Allah Uluru's lesson will eventually meet with the lesson of Ka'ba within full reconciliation of Aboriginal culture with Islam. There is no measure by which Uluru's existance can have been left out of Qur'an.

So while perhaps in reading this thread there is providence of facts that readers are not wanting their minds to ever consider, it is that we Australians are not able to prevent that this is the story of our place. Let me tell also that the reason I have been in immediate personal danger is because I have not shied away from hating the persons here whom have used drugs to modify their self so as to imagine to escape the fire by counting wrongfully against Aboriginal mothers. They theive from our children now already only Hell. Our children whom know with no doubt, that we can become the worst of ourself in form, and be redeemed in Allah though our commitments to learn how not to be such in future, because we are already so well tempered by Bhyame.

It is my prayer that modern Australian Muslims will be able to begin to accept that when I wrote that our racial memories of existing as animals are just and immutable, that these are the facts of this thread. Muslims in Australia have also been widely hurt and misinformed by shaytan portraying their misconceptions of Aboriginality. Yet also is it true that I have found some of the most devout and perfect Muslims are living here, and also shaytan whom were born in other places and are attracted to Australia. I am certain that the Ummah of Islam prays with the success of thier truly Islam in endeavours among us.

Insha Allah my words have hurt no person but my own self and all children will become safe through what I report to the Ummah. Truly now I should leave this thread and direct any curiousity to the manifestation of shaytan among us to the thread that is a story called the ant thread, but not finished yet. But beware of The Dajjal's method being to state any words out of context of its belief, and therein accuse while manifesting as though it is not.
Insha Allah my context can be believed for I fear making accusation more than any other fear, after having walked the valley of the dead with conscious recall intact. I will again because in truth I value that I can embody fear that is real, and have no fear of The Dajjal.

Mu'asalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

I went to sleep last night not wanting to have left this thread in a negative idea in the sixth post, and this morning there was a reminder on the TV of what most clearly relates modern Australian mainstream culture straight back into Indigenous belief structure.

As well as being a children's news report about Ramadan; there was a children's news report about what a state funeral is. There were two offers recently to the families of well known deceased Australians of state funerals.

the family of Peter Brock, who is well known for driving fast cars well and looking after his own health, took up the offer

while the family of Steveo (Irwin) , declined the offer and instead, earlier this morning, paid themselves for a public memorial service

Steveo was seldom held in the good public regard here in Australia as he is in the US. Well, not so famously at any rate. But in his passing he is certainly one of the best remembered folk among.

Yet what will he be remembered for?

At the memorial service he was noted by the University of Queensland for his contribution to Science, and it was told that they had planned to honour him with an honourary professorship. There was also some footage of him shown in which he was being interviewed by a black American radio personality who gave him the title of being a honourary black brother.

The song sung for the occasion, which is written by just another Aussie as ordinary as Steveo, includes the following lyrics:

Hey true blue
Is it me and you
Is it Mum and Dad
Is it a Cockatoo
Is it standing by your mate
When he is in a fight
Or will she be right
Hey true blue
I'm asking you
Can you bear the load . . .

. . .don't say you've gone
you've knocked off for a smoko
and you'll be back later on . . .

Hey true blue

(don't tell anybody but most Australians are in tears for that which we ever knew; and are in community with the Irwin family in not wishing for Steveo to be regarded as any body other than an ordinary bloke whose love of Earth we will all accept a portion of the bill for: and that is without anybody having mentioned how much land he and his wife bought and gave to wildlife within reserves some now owned by Australia's National Parks Service)

So that is what I have to say about the belief of the Aborigines of Australia: Hey true blue!

mu'asalam

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamex:

It is mentioned to me that there could be users of this forum whom may like to know more certainty of Australian Aboriginal culture, and that perhaps a thread in which I can be questioned about Aboriginal culture could be found reason for. The suggestion coincides with a concern that I have about the way in which Aboriginal Australians are and are not enabled to interact with persons from other cultures, and so I have commenced such a thread. But I am beginning with a lengthy essay, so in time perhaps there may be questions that I am not yet aware of needing answers. The work is about fifteen A4 pages, and made in only one draft, so if there are any confusing passages with faulted punctuation, alert me and I can provide better. There are a few short expressions of a foundation mythology at the end, and I am wary to provide any that are not in accord with Qur'an, yet also aware that such are the only true measure of being able to genuinely teach of the culture that is.

Indeed many of us are intrigued by the aboriginal culture, starting from me. I have never had the opportunity to acquire knowledge on this. I would like to thank you for your time and effort for writing this. My reply will also be long, considering there are a lot of points I would like to address. Furthermore, I’d like to state that whilst this is a very informative thread the chances of members reading it will be very slim. It is not because they are not interested but when one sees a lengthy reply they just leg from it. In addition those who are interested in this discussion have little time and it would be appreciated if you tried to restrict the length of your posts as it is hard enough trying to reply to the first one. Thank you sister :)

I will state at the outset that we are a race with an unusual cultural manifestation that is has a unique biological base;

I was very much under the assumption that you were not actually an aboriginal yourself but you have rather studied it, am I correct to assume this? If so then did you use ‘we’ as a metaphorical sense?

and that this manifests as exposing our worst qualities in the first instance of any interaction. Thereby we are often weakened in that initial interaction. But at the same time, since our very survival depends upon overcoming any such weakness exposed, we are adept at recovering from every first perceived fault. This manifests into a strength by our ability to learn to know ourselves in our weakest manifestations through exposure of. Obviously the task is a difficult one, but once that first negotiation is complete, our strength can not be thereafter underestimated. What is interesting in this phenomenon, is that while it is culturally embedded, it is also manifestly a biological phenomena.

So you’re saying that an aboriginal will manifest their weakness and find strength by doing this? It is indeed astonishing; most people tend to hide their flaw so that it may not be used against them. Furthermore, surely such a thing can not be biological as there is no such gene that exists in other humans. It may be that aboriginals follow the way of their ancestors and thus they expose their faults being it is a cultural factor and not because they are mentally compelled to doing so. I’m sure that if an aboriginal were to grow up in a society where no one spoke of their weaknesses they also would be like that. Sometimes a cultural thing which is passed on from forefather to another can seem like a biological factor whilst it is not.

This is amply apparent in that such behaviour exists among very many persons of Aboriginal descent whom are now of white skin so not readily identifiable as Aboriginal, and have also been raised entirely outside of the culture that sustains such manifestations. It is perhaps an unfortunate, and often indeed tragic, occurrence, that in modern Australian society, as we are still so overtly dominated by the British invasion of Australia in 1788, that our children are not being given the cultural pre-requisites with which to comprehend a need to be wary in our regard for other persons. We mostly recover well from being misinterpreted in our own first mishaps of chance faults exposed in initial interactions; but it is that our children are biologically inclined towards regarding that the worst in a stranger is that which they first manifest. Yet by knowing this about ourselves, and also by knowing that strangers may have learned this about us, we are enabled to be more self critical now in our observations of second, third and subsequence, chance mishaps of faults exposed in inter-cultural interaction.

Those who are over-thrown are neglected in any era; it is a norm that the aboriginal culture and their identity has become merely a thing for historians to discuss (the same with the red Indians). Most of us are not taught about this because they see it as irrelevant. Furthermore, the chances of exposing the true conquest of the land of the aboriginals can be emotional for many. It is a taboo and naturally we can expect for their existence to deteriorate. I personally do not agree with this, as it is stated: “Ardu-llah wasi3” (which roughly translates to Allah’s earth is spacious) and humans should stop driving people out of their own lands. In the period colonization, every powerful country fought for imperialism. Era of ignorance....

I will explain this with an example. I had a teaching Dream about this very matter only a few days ago. I had an initial interaction with a big fat American. At first I distrusted him by my own nature, and in that his presence was inconvenient, but in the first active interaction he manifested, I was well enabled to trust. Yet immediately thereafter he manifested a very frightening interaction, and my instinct was to abhor his self; yet I am that I could not judge him upon any but his first interaction, such that I was almost easily lead, by him, into a dangerous situation, all the while having comprehended such. But then I woke up in time to save my self.

A dream is not like reality, sometimes the most harmless matter less becomes a substance of fear in our thoughts. It is strange that you used the term, ‘dream' rather than a nightmare. Surely it would be more accurate to refer your vision as a nightmare but that is simply my perception.

So here I am revealing this, only so as that any persons whom are not of Australian Aboriginal origin, whom may have taken advantage of us by this fact, can know that it was wrong to us. But also in the hope that Aboriginal persons will able to adapt our culture to be more critical in subsequent interactions of our responses to non-Aboriginal persons. It should be stated that while an aborigine, is a person who is native to the place there are at, an Aborigine, with a capital “A”, means a person native to Australia by racial origin. Quite an honour really that the English invading language gave us such a status.

I have never encountered an aboriginal so I would be lying if I said I would not discriminate them. However, I know this much, as a Muslim one should know that Allah has created nations not so that we may quarrel but so we may know one another. Brother and sisters In Islam are dear to me regardless of what they look like. A brother and a sister in humanity deserve my respect regardless of their religious belief.

So here I am lead into providing some further information about our culture and what are its unique attributes that we are proving as worthy of saving, in this age in which so much of antiquity is being exposed to the weather. It need to be stated that within our modern cultural etiquette it is that I need to substantiate my self as a person whom is a proper person to be imparting such knowledge before I take this matter any further. I could not in fact without. Therefore it is necessary to comprehend that all I can impart of Aboriginal culture is of me. My own true self. Therefore some parts of what I can teach will be most soundly based within my own experiential understanding, while other parts will be more soundly based within my own academic anthropological research. So it may seem that I meander often between non-Aboriginal and Aboriginal modes of expression, but always within a basically Aboriginal cultural form of story telling, of my own truly verified experiences. Stories are, in my opinion, the only way to teach culture. However I will here be telling my own story, and in my story, I have attained some worth in an academic sense within the discipline of anthropology, so thereby I may use some of that discipline as a short hand way of revealing our way.

Again I am left confused about your identity, you refer yourself as an aboriginal yet at the same time you neglect this idea. Perhaps it is my lack of comprehension in the way you write. Wish may I add is very rich mashallah. I also agree that stories are ways of telling culture though I wouldn’t go the extent of stating that it is the only method to teach culture. It is also important to bare in mind that whilst culture is a very rich and fascinating thing to observe and study it can also be dangerous. For example in Islam the main reason why so many Muslims have been led astray and left with a confused image of Islam is because of culture. It is a blessing of Allah, nonetheless if not used wisely it can be dangerous. Following one’s forefathers does not necessary make it correct, need I remind of the case of the pre-Islam Arabs who were stubborn about neglecting the faith of their forefathers. Culture also distorts the image of Islam, I and others can give several examples where this is the case.

Since I am white skin and well educated Australian, with a good orientation to mainstream Anglo-Saxon oriented culture, I need to substantiate that I live within empirical evidence that is of merit in authorising my self to engage in a process of imparting any of the worth of Aboriginal culture.

Then I can assume you refer yourself as an aboriginal metaphorically. It is hard at times to draw a line between what you refer as a metaphor and what is a realistic statement. Clarity would be very much appreciated.

As a child I recall very well that the world seemed to be made up of mainly dumb and wrong phenomena, and that most persons seemed like totally ignorant idiots completely out of touch with reality.

Only the media elevates the statues of those who are ignorant in society, this is not because they themselves are self-removed from comprehending what is right but rather that is what sells. Humans pray on each others weakness and fascinations.

That is except for the natural world. However the man made environment was all too much like somebodies worst nightmare coming real.

Certain aspects of society are a nightmare I agree, however, I wouldn’t generalize to say that all man made is an element that causes distress. One can not compare nature with what humans have invented. One is perfect and the other is not. The comparison is invalid.

My experience of modern mainstream Australian society in this regard is not at all unique, and is factually common to many white Australians with some Aboriginal ancestry. It could be said that as a Nation we are all just waiting for somebody to wake us up to the fact that we are colluding in that nightmare by not overtly working to repudiate the modern world. But it is as though there is something in our genetics constantly reminding us that this world is not the real world.

But this is the real world; your statement reminded me of Dostoevsky’s work 'Crime and punishment' in which the protagonist questions whether anything exists. We may play a philosophical card and question the existence of everything but that would make us self-absorbed people.

What I remember as important in that my father transmitted to me is that he very often provided all commentary from his own certain knowledge about the natural surroundings. Flora and fauna especially. He also never failed to provide any scientific empirical data that could repudiate any false belief he noticed. While these providences were at all times within a mainstream Australian outlook, his method of exposition was really only missing that key to Aboriginal belief, that we are at all time to identify every manifestation in our own self, that is not provenly a Human manifestation, with another living form.

I get the implication that you’re saying humans need to find connection with plants and other living forms in order to understand ourselves? I do not agree other living forms. As stated in the Quran. Sure enough we can find connection between all living things, nonetheless it does not mean to understand our existence we need to see ourselves as the same horizon as other living forms. Metaphorically that is a good theory but it’s not practical.

Factually this comprehension was provided to me by one of my parents closest friends and God Father to my brother, in the form of a good book of Legends of the Dreamtime. So as soon as I had that key of being able to base empirical evidence in such legends, my whole world re-oriented rapidly. That key is only the key to knowing my own true self, those parts of me in which I am true to Soul; and it is that I learned that key through a teaching belonging soundly within modern Islam.

Islam is not ‘modern’ thing but rather a universal thing. The terminology ‘modern’ is very much misunderstood by many of us. What we see as modern now will certainly not be seen in the same light in several years. I myself do not read books about legends and myths (excluding the Greek myth, which at times I found rather peculiar). So I’m not well versed on many of the books you speak and thus I will have to neglect to replying.

All of these persons have been engaged in the work of environmental science. At pre-school one day my father visited with his friend called Graham Webb who is one of Australia’s crocodile hunters, and showed a turtle and a lizard to all the children. But I am in shame for having sat on a snake at Graham’s house. You may readily thus regard that I am raised within an Animist cultural foundation, even though it has a form from the Catholic church and all else that ‘the west’ is regarded as faulted with, superimposed over this foundation.

I do not regard you as a person groomed as an animist as children tend to make errors. These errors are not recorded in Islam, it is the mercy of our creator.

Most of what I am detailing is matters that are more properly regarded as belonging to an inside part of the culture of other places, yet here in Traditional Australia, these are outside teachings. There is a strong cultural regard for the matter of distinguishing what is the difference between “inside” and “outside” business. That is, I am not allowed to relate any matter that could be an inside matter. My comprehension of Islam, is that generally The Ummah is a more inside teaching that Kinship is for Aboriginal Australians. Therefore it is that it must be held as discriminated to be of a unique and different definition, even though I have made a comparison. In the largest part, why Aboriginal Kinship is enabled to be an outside teaching is because Kinship is inclusive of the categorisation of all native Australian flora and fauna, as well as Human beings, and therefore it is distinct, definitively, from The Ummah.

I do not understand what you mean by the above statements. The Ummah is made up of everyone who is under the band of Islam. It is insignificant whether that personal be Irish, Maldivian; aboriginal. I feel that it is vital that I express what Islam is because at times I get the impression that you try and entwine aboriginal culture with Islam. Islam is a way of life; one may follow their culture so long as it does not contradict the teachings of Islam. We are on earth so that we may worship our creator, not so that we may distinguish ourselves as either superior or inferior.

Aboriginal culture, just like many rich cultures tend to have some sort of agreement with Islam. Islam shows us every aspect of our lives and we adhere to it.

I know that aboriginals as well as other cultures speak about some sort of magical and unknown creatures that they perform rituals to rid of their evilness. I have noticed that you have come to the conclusion that the aboriginals believe in ‘jinn’. However, the deluded implication we may have is not necessary correct.

What I mean by this is that you tend to see the matter of the unseen to us (jinn) as being black or white, Which is not the case. You have to see Jinn as their own creation otherwise you immediately fall into the trap of brushing all creatures as being the same whilst that is far from reality. Furthermore, the issue of shaytaan is conjured when talking about this issue. However I don’t want to get side tracked about this topic as it requires a lot of time and wisdom. In addition there are already numerous threads discussing it.

There are seven keys of comprehension. Seven, like the seven skies as known of in Islam, or the seven levels of comprehension of the meaning of ever Hebrew consonant. Whether any person has access to any key, depends only upon their having accurately comprehended the transmission of the key. There may be many persons whom manifest as though they have a key in this modern world, but if they depend upon another person’s understanding, then the key is not yet validly their own. There are Aboriginal systems of giving in Alms of small portions of such comprehension that are equitable with the Alms giving of a Hijab; but ever it is that such gifts must be demonstrably needed and no right can ever be assumed to take of, as very many western occultists have assumed of Australian Aborigines.

I do not understand where you’re coming from; today I can take any culture and show a similarity between it and Islam. When studying Islam it is vital to start from a clean slate otherwise mixing it with cultural factors could contaminate what we are trying to acquire.

I will try and address some of your other statements inshallah.

In the mean-time it would be truly appreciated if you didn't reply or else i'd be here for centuries lol.

Jizakallah khayr.

Your sister in Islam :)

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamex

However, I have veered away from defining what means: “go with the Dream that wakes you up”. Never talk about any place you’ve never been. Never get any substance you have not Dreamed. Always regard Dreams that you can not relate to your own memory of your own daily life as either a debt being incurred, or as disease caused by black magic. That is, a healthy Aboriginal Australian Dreams only of the real and memorable world. But since 1788, and a hundred odd years earlier even, Aborigines had been Dreaming of the ills of this period of cultural invasion. But like the Jews beginning to be rounded up during the Holocaust, before being gased and burnt, but also before receiving evidence that such was happening to other Jews, we did not believe in such nightmares as real. Not until the first sight of a ship. Never go any place without having first Dreamed of being there. That is, each and every day actively live true to only that Dream which awakened you, that Dream which aroused your five senses to the daily reality of mouths to feed and shelter to provide etc. So here it is that you can readily accept that Aboriginal Australia many not have needed to pray so often in 1770, while Captain Cook was on an exploratory voyage around the coast of Australia, but that in this day, we ought to be entering the Dreamtime in Allah as many times a day as any Muslim is in Prayer. By Prayer alone are we, as Human beings, enabled to cause that we are not being harmed each morning in the Dreams that awaken us by the shaytan. So it stands to reason, of course, that Aboriginal culture places large emphasis upon that work of sustaining the Dreamtime.

I had never known this, it is amazing what one learns, I’m ashamed at my ignorance towards other people’s culture. Anthropology was briefly introduced to me in my first year of IB, to be honest I never dwelled on the matter, I was not being arrogant but it was an off-tangent issue touched momentarily by my teacher. He used the example of red Indians rather than the aboriginals. I was appalled at how the red Indians were actually portrayed, but history is written by the winners. C'est la vie...

The issue of prayer in Islam is not so that we stop ourselves from experiencing nightmares. You’ll find a person who has prayed 5 times a day but is still attacked by shaytaan (through bad dreams). Shaytaan does not miss any opportunity to deceive, cause distress or cause doubt into hearts of man-kind.

You speak about the holocaust having been foreseen by the aboriginals, is there evidence backing this up? Remember that the one equipped about the future (fortune tellers/soothsayers) are not following Islam. The evidence for this is as follows’: Some people asked Allah's Apostle (salallahu alayhi wa salam) about the foretellers. He said. -They are nothing." They said, -O Allah's Apostle! Sometimes they tell us of a thing which turns out to be true." Allah's Apostle said, "A Jinn snatches that true word and pours it into the ear of his friend (the foreteller) (as one puts something into a bottle). The foreteller then mixes with that word one hundred lies."

Before 1788 all of every persons life was engaged in a nomadic and hunter gather (albeit there are many farming applications within nomadic hunting and gathering) subsistence level of daily monotheistic belief. We woke up, found food, went to where it was safe to be, and raised our families; but when ever there was enough food we would gather and make Corroborees. Most of these were initiation ceremonies. But it may have been that we engaged in such for only one month out of twelve, depending only upon food availability. The rest of the year was spent in really very small family groups that wandered. Usually there were more than only a mother and father and children, but not always. The elderly always travelled with younger persons, but in the prime of life the most important leaders would often be alone with only their own immediate family, out in the bush for months on end. The only resources you own are what you can make from the materials at hand in the bush. The hard work ethic exists for good reason. Our culture teaches us to work or die. At larger gatherings future marriages are arranged, betrothals met, and initiations conducted. Also any death rites that preceded can be finalised. In this function alone we are quite different from modern Islam. But I should explain the death rites last.

I’m lost in the ambiguity of your above comments. You no longer speak from an observer’s perspective, which can be confusing. So for the sake of conversing on the same level I will assume this style of writing is for vivacity, please correct me if I’m mistaken:) .

As you stated, the aspect of aboriginal culture you have shed light upon in the above paragraph does not fit with Islam. In Islam you worship as though you will die now and you work as though you will live for eternity. It is not right for one to either sell himself to the angel of death or consume himself in work only. Such an extreme unbalance can be dangerous to one’s health.

The best way to explain Kinship is to run through the life cycle of any person. When a mother quickens a fetus in her womb, is when a Human Spirit has entered her. Where she is at that moment and what she first sees belong to the essential self of that child. Usually that is regarded as the first animal she sees, but not always, perhaps a plant, or even a rock.

I see, from an Islamic perspective this would have neither reliability nor validity. It is not narrated in the Quran or any narration about such thing, whether it is metaphorical or not. Assuming that a child will be a mirror (to phrase ambiguously) of the first thing a mother sees is reaching flawed conclusion. If the mother had laid eyes on rock would it be correct to say that child will be cold, hard and rigid? Can you see where the error occurs?

It is that what is outstanding in the environment at that moment, is where the child’s spirit has only just exited from, so as to become born once more in Human form.

Reincarnation is not an Islamic matter so that has no stand in Islam. Kayfa takfuruna billah wa kuntum amwatan fa-ahyakum, thuma yumitukum, thuma yuhyikum, thuma ileyhi turjaoun. (baqarah:28)

How can you disbelieve in Allah?
Seeing that you were dead
and He gave you life.
Then He will give you death,
then again will bring you to life
(on the Day of Resurrection)
and then unto Him you will return.


The Quran speaks of people being resurrected (Then We raised you up after your death, so that you might be grateful-2:56) but not reincarnation.

The place is of the utmost importance, and the mother must try to give birth close by. This is because the Earth’s Ley lines, that are called Dreamlines or Songlines in Aboriginal culture, are known to be the means of any travel of the Human Soul before being born. We each belong within one specific Ley line, so it is important that all the most significant incidents of our live occur upon that Ley line. There are Laws about the patterns in which families of Human beings relate to the Ley lines. These laws are constantly conformed to, without any possibility of variation. There exists within the study of immuno-genetics a modern scientific verification of this belief, that my father pointed out to me.

Hmm, that isn’t expressed in Islam. What would happen if a mother did not give birth in that specific ‘ley line’?

I saw a marsupial hopping mouse right near my home in a big city! But I also know about the lung fish that live in this region – true they are fish with lungs as well as gills, but in such numbers that many are the kafir never formed since lung fish form in the place of.)

This doesn’t make sense; you can not attribute an animal as being kafir or a mu’min. I presume you understand the term kafir. Perhaps that was a typo.

But in many ways I am obliged to perform Hajj there prior even to a pilgrimage to Mecca, because of the degree of my obligations. I have already made a Hajj to my birth place, and such is regarded as essential within Aboriginal culture for every person to undertake whenever in any uncertainty. However, I am straying from the need to describe a few of the specifically important behavioural rules.

You have misused the term ‘hajj’ in your content. It is not obligatory in Islam for one to perform hajj, another mercy from Allah. Islam is very easy and Allah (exalted and glorified be he) says: La yukaliful-llah ila wus3ha (Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope.). It’s very confusing to use terms such as hajj, kafir etc in a content irrelevant to what the word actually means.

I must avoid persons whom are within the category of son-in-law. In some places it is explained that two such persons get their flies mingling. A sister to a son-in-law is likely to be whom initiates me into any new aspect of culture. To a Jungarrayi I must retain total dignity at all times, and never make any reference what-so-ever to any matter in the slightest bit sexual, and if such occurs he has the right to hit me. That is the only time that any violence was ever allowed from any male to any female.

Nothing of such nature is expressed in Islam. I will only state the Islamic view point when replying to your post. I’m sorry that I can not bring evidence for everything I say from the Quran but if you desire for prove please state so as I will inshallah.

Qur’an provided us in many places already with a re-forging of most of those stories, and most of the older stories that are about entrapment have been ‘put to sleep’.

I don’t understand why you used the term ‘re-forging’ . The stories told in Islam are usually also told in other monotheistic faith such as Judaism and Christianity. However, most of the time these stories are not exactly the same.

In fact upon the invasion some elders chose to give the evidence that some stories had ever existed to those invaders whom had the resources to hide such, and were instructed that the stories were being ‘put to sleep’. My own comprehension of this process is that those of us whom were converted to Islam chose to use the process of invasion to cause that more of us be enabled to so convert.

I’m lost in what you are trying to convey here. People convert to Islam because Allah has willed so and because their hearts see the light in the beautiful faith, the faith of perfection.

About marriage I should tell a little. Ideally at seven or eight, when a circumcision initiation is performed upon boys, He is betrothed to a baby girl and all necessary familial ties of reciprocal obligation are commenced. Such bonds include ongoing obligations in food provision etc. However, often when a boy is first more fully initiated, before marrying in his early twenties, he first is married to an old lady who has no Husband. He may marry his betrothed bride only when she is old enough some years later. The older wife will teach Him how to be a good Husband to her first. Occasionally also baby girls are betrothed to older men, and when the girl is mature enough to have her first baby she marries him. But he is likely to pass into the after life well before her, at which time she may be free to form a love match. In general men are allowed more than one wife, but women only one Husband at a time. Yet if her first Husband is not there any more then it is expected that she will become the property and full responsibility of another man.

Hmm, Islam differs completely when it comes to the issue of marriage. Boys do get circumcised but at what age depends on the parents. Girls may be circumcised (not mutilation) but it is not so much as a obligatory matter as it is for boys. As for the matter of marriage, a girl may marry whom she wishes, she is not forced and same goes for boys. Women are not the property of anyone; they are their own individual beings. Hence why Islam is known for the liberation of women when western society was still in the dark about such matter’s. In Islam it is the husband’s duty to provide for his family, the wife may work and what she earns is hers, a privilege given to Muslim women.

Just like in aboriginal culture divorce is considered an option but it is disliked in Islam. However, there is no sin in either of the party if they do divorce one another.

The term ‘love magic’ is an alien to Islam, magic is not permitted, so for a marriage to start off with magic is certainly not going in the path of blessings.

There may be Muslims familiar with the phenomenon of a shape shifter, and these different patterns are occurring with such shifts. If a person to whom I am in debt regards me with the question in their mind of “what’s your animal” then I shift and if I am a being whom has ever adopted the form of life of the animal whom I am behaving like, my whole body kesdjan, or feeling body, will adopt that shape, while my thoughts will become crystal clear and I will notice what could have been a mistake in any of my behaviour. Then I will be shamed about being an animal, and correct myself into a true Human behaviour. The biology I have described also sustains a feature that makes it far more difficult for shaytan.

Humans do not morph into other creatures and it is the haq. Shaytaan however takes the form of human to deceive and cause mischief. Also shape shifting is not narrated in Islam thus it is incorrect to believe in it as there is no evidence or basis for such thing.

Shaytan tend to practise false breathing that causes that material of sin is condensed in too fine a density, by drawing reproductive energy up through the spine into the minds eye, but bypassing various other physical functions that are necessary for the processing of such matter.

Can you bring forth substantial evidence that the above is stated in the Quran or authentic narrations please?

Aborigines have an additional muscular function that accords a strong connection to the spine and that energy can not readily pass through without damaging the body. Shaytan have attempted openly to undermine such by means of anal rapes, and they failed in all respects except that of damaging our reputation.

Again there is no basis for your conclusion in Islam. Islam does not give a graphical image of how shaytaan whispers into the hearts of mankind.

I will not quote anymore as I’d like to address the rest of your initial post in a scoop. You mention cultural things and try and attribute them to Islam which is invalid, even more so using terms such as shaytaan in content to aboriginal culture leaves readers confused.


I must shed some light into shaytaan from the Quran.

He (Shaytaan) makes promises to them, and arouses in them false desires; and shaytan's promises are nothing but deceptions. (4:120)

(Their allies deceived them) like shaytan , when he says to man: "Disbelieve in Allah." But when (man) disbelieves in Allah, shaytan ( says: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!" (59:16).

Aboriginal culture works with magic, there is no good magic and it is not permitted in Islam as I stated earlier. In addition there is the issue of morphing you speak about. Nothing of such matter is expressed in Islam. Muslims draw their entire conclusion from the Quran and authentic narrations. If there is no evidence it is neglected because there is no basis for it.

The human excercise beyond its capability. Sometimes we summon things for effect, fictional and it is a time waster. In addition many pople have gone mad dwelling on what they known nothing about.

I remember a story which was narrated to me about an egyptian man who was obsessed with Jinn to the extent that he would converse with them as though they were friends. Ultimately his curiosity led his enemy to a powerful position. He instructed the jinn to kill his family, wife and children. So when Allah subhana wa ta'ala conceals from us it is best for us. We should not pry into what should be left unattended.

Shaytaan waits for us to slip.

I end this reply with seeking refugee in Allah from the whispering shaytaan. I ask for his forgiveness from what i have written and uttered. May Allah guide his slaves to the straight path and shower his mercy on them, verily without our lord we are lost.

Also i would like to apology if i have said anything offensive sister curaezipid, as that was not my intention. Thank you very much for your detailed and informative essay about aboriginal culture :)

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam Silver Pearl,

you are expressing a large quantity of data that is in common place criticism here in Australia against Australian Aborigines. But the difficulty I am finding is that you present it in the form exactly that shaytans have assaulted our belief structures with. I worked for an hour providing commentary where you remarked that you were not certain as to what I was meaning, and then a computer error occurred, the whole was lost and now I am too exhausted to repeat it for the minute. Perhaps I can when less tired than I am in this moment. You certainly are condemning of my own beliefs in a way in which asserts that I can not be both Aboriginal and a Muslim; so I feel some level of obligation to quieten that debate by providing from my own mental practise as to the way of reconciling the two belief structures that are essentially the same once placed within the historical facts.

Here I will say, for example only, that a kafir manifesting a symbolic mental association with an animal, is a correct framing of the phenomenon of kafir, such that it then becomes a different phenomenon. The Qur'an and ahadith have no external expressions of such has not made such belief Haram.

Remember that any belief not accorded Halal status is not automatically able to be discredited as haram.

I need to assert that at the point where you distinctly link a mirror to the belief structures of Aboriginal mothers when our babies quicken in utero, is far from what I have written. My own words are rather meaning that the story belonging to the place in which quickening occurs, and also the immediate manifestation of that story in the mother's experience, automatically are assumed to belong to the child's inheritance that is accorded them through their father.

It is so odd that you associated the appearance of a rock with the mothers association to her womb? Could you? since surely Aboriginal mothers can not, but may believe that their child's Soul has been through the fire of rocks to become born again, or ressurected as a Human.

I have not at any point asserted that our beliefs include re-incarnation. In fact I am extremely strict with my self at this point. There is only one context in which I have ever tried to translate Aboriginal teaching into the language used around teachings of reincarnation; but that will not be for here to tell since it was an occultists group I was trying to assert the Humanity of Aborigines among. Even in that I worked to undermine the belief that reincarnation is a realistic phenomenon rather than only kafir.

There I will leave this thread until I am in a more positive frame of mind. I have not read yet both of your posts, only the second; and could not find that there was a first until after I lost my first response to the second. So I will wait until I am collected before posting again.

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamex:

Indeed many of us are intrigued by the aboriginal culture, starting from me. I have never had the opportunity to acquire knowledge on this. I would like to thank you for your time and effort for writing this. My reply will also be long, considering there are a lot of points I would like to address. Furthermore, I’d like to state that whilst this is a very informative thread the chances of members reading it will be very slim. It is not because they are not interested but when one sees a lengthy reply they just leg from it. In addition those who are interested in this discussion have little time and it would be appreciated if you tried to restrict the length of your posts as it is hard enough trying to reply to the first one. Thank you sister :)

I was very much under the assumption that you were not actually an aboriginal yourself but you have rather studied it, am I correct to assume this? If so then did you use ‘we’ as a metaphorical sense?

I shall make all the subsequent replies very much shorter, thankyou for you recommending not to make long posts, and it is that I am often checking how many persons are looking at threads to ascertain whether there is worth in continuing with. It is commonly my experience that my posts are oddly put in a way that defies any real verbal response, and so that few post after me is not relevent to how many are actually reading.

I have made explicit in a number of places that my real biology is that of an Australian Aborigine. There can be no doubt in this. The physical signs are unmistakable. My study occurred before I had means to validate my experiencial difference from most other white Australians, but certainly by no means all.

wasalam

[Silver Pearl]

:sl: and Ramadan Kareem sister!

you are expressing a large quantity of data that is in common place criticism here in Australia against Australian Aborigines. But the difficulty I am finding is that you present it in the form exactly that shaytans have assaulted our belief structures with.

I do not mean to criticise the aboriginal culture and that is not my intention, if my words have come across as being harsh or unnecessary i ask you to forgive me. I did not say that shaytaan has assaulted your culture, however, i merely presented Islam's stand on some of the cultural matters you raised.

I worked for an hour providing commentary where you remarked that you were not certain as to what I was meaning, and then a computer error occurred, the whole was lost and now I am too exhausted to repeat it for the minute. Perhaps I can when less tired than I am in this moment.

The same happened to me, and i just couldn't be bothered for days, lol. Its alright, i understand how it is like to be in your side of the field.

You certainly are condemning of my own beliefs in a way in which asserts that I can not be both Aboriginal and a Muslim; so I feel some level of obligation to quieten that debate by providing from my own mental practise as to the way of reconciling the two belief structures that are essentially the same once placed within the historical facts.

I do not mean to condemn anything and if it came across that way it was certainly not my intention. Like i said, i am simply addressing the issues you realised and commenting it in the light of the Quran and sunnah.

Here I will say, for example only, that a kafir manifesting a symbolic mental association with an animal, is a correct framing of the phenomenon of kafir, such that it then becomes a different phenomenon.

The example has not made the matter any clearer to me, again it could be my lack of comprehension in what you're trying to portray. So that we are on the same level, do you mind if you tell me what your definition of the term 'kafir' is please?

Remember that any belief not accorded Halal status is not automatically able to be discredited as haram.

In islam things are either halal, haram or doubtful and the prophet (may the peace and blessing be upon him) told us to refrain from anything doubtful. While somethings are halal, there are levels of its permissibility.

I need to assert that at the point where you distinctly link a mirror to the belief structures of Aboriginal mothers when our babies quicken in utero, is far from what I have written. My own words are rather meaning that the story belonging to the place in which quickening occurs, and also the immediate manifestation of that story in the mother's experience, automatically are assumed to belong to the child's inheritance that is accorded them through their father.

I think i understand, you're speaking from a more metaphorical sense am i correct?

It is so odd that you associated the appearance of a rock with the mothers association to her womb? Could you? since surely Aboriginal mothers can not, but may believe that their child's Soul has been through the fire of rocks to become born again, or ressurected as a Human.

There is no basis for this in Islam, so naturally i would neglect it if there is no evidence to support it. A mother may look at a sprout, what would be the interpretation of that? surely it seems a mythical delusion caried on from forefathers. I don't mean to offend, aboriginal culture is something very new to me.

I have not at any point asserted that our beliefs include re-incarnation. In fact I am extremely strict with my self at this point. There is only one context in which I have ever tried to translate Aboriginal teaching into the language used around teachings of reincarnation; but that will not be for here to tell since it was an occultists group I was trying to assert the Humanity of Aborigines among. Even in that I worked to undermine the belief that reincarnation is a realistic phenomenon rather than only kafir.

D'accord

There I will leave this thread until I am in a more positive frame of mind. I have not read yet both of your posts, only the second; and could not find that there was a first until after I lost my first response to the second. So I will wait until I am collected before posting again.

Inshallah, may Allah bestow you happiness in this blessed month:) .

I shall make all the subsequent replies very much shorter, thankyou for you recommending not to make long posts, and it is that I am often checking how many persons are looking at threads to ascertain whether there is worth in continuing with. It is commonly my experience that my posts are oddly put in a way that defies any real verbal response, and so that few post after me is not relevent to how many are actually reading.

Thank you very much. This is an interesting topic without a doubt and people do seem interested (by the look of the number of viewers it has).

I have made explicit in a number of places that my real biology is that of an Australian Aborigine. There can be no doubt in this. The physical signs are unmistakable. My study occurred before I had means to validate my experiencial difference from most other white Australians, but certainly by no means all.

I understand, thank you for the clarity, very much appreciated :D

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam and Ramadan Kareem Sister Silver Pearl

I am here now only going to answer the questions you asked and will find my way into providing any other commentary upon your comments as later time avails. Thankyou by the way for being open in your comments. I am sure that many Muslims are very wary of Australian Aboriginal belief structures and it is best for open comparison and discussions so we are all enabled to clarify what is shared and what is not fluid with modern Islamic education from within Tradtional Aboriginal teaching.

:sl: and Ramadan Kareem sister!

I do not mean to criticise the aboriginal culture and that is not my intention, if my words have come across as being harsh or unnecessary i ask you to forgive me. I did not say that shaytaan has assaulted your culture, however, i merely presented Islam's stand on some of the cultural matters you raised.

You might here be able to realise that I am in a terrible temper in general about some of the wrongful interpretations of Aboriginal culture that all Aboriginal Australians have had to tolerate. The problem is from shaytan whom have attempted to portray our culture as though supportive of their method, and have well forced us into often not being able to portray ourselves any differently to their want.

I do not mean to condemn anything and if it came across that way it was certainly not my intention. Like i said, i am simply addressing the issues you realised and commenting it in the light of the Quran and sunnah.

Thankyou for your ample considerations in this.

The example has not made the matter any clearer to me, again it could be my lack of comprehension in what you're trying to portray. So that we are on the same level, do you mind if you tell me what your definition of the term 'kafir' is please?

There is a thread recently begun about kafir that I made some contribution to, and that should be best place to look. However my overall knowledge is that kafir are that when we consider a matter that has already been Judged in Allah in a different light so as to seek that we find ourselves innocent after all, then we can only cause ultimately that another person get born without a Soul, whose whole existance becomes then accounted against us whilst in the grave. So to consider such sinful mental practise as causing only animals is a truly preventative measure. Surely, though animals are not Human, they are at least not able to imagine that they are a Human in status.

I think i understand, you're speaking from a more metaphorical sense am i correct? . . .

. . . A mother may look at a sprout, what would be the interpretation of that? surely it seems a mythical delusion caried on from forefathers. I don't mean to offend, aboriginal culture is something very new to me.

The eludication of the question can only be in a metaphorical sense. I might have seen a frog when I felt a baby quicken inside me, and that would accord a frog self to that child; but clearly I am not about to give birth to a frog. But if I had happened to be looking at a sprout at that very moment; why then some aspect of 'sprout nature' would, in that Metaphorical sense, become a part of what I must inform the father's child of as a part of what the child will enter the family within ownership of. The system is clearly one of accepting giving birth to Human Souls whom have immediately prior to entry into the womb, been existing in a non-Human natural form. There is no teaching of, or belief in re-incarnation, because it is known that such can tempt a person to try to avoid the fire; and so it is taught that we will return to the forms of other parts of nature; but also that through such is the only means of finding ourselves at Heaven.

One of the difficulties I experience is that this is the very aspect of Aboriginal culture which has been most assaulted. There are shaytan among us who were not originally Aboriginal, but whom perceived a means to try to avoid the fire themselves in trying to accord that all their deeds are attributed to other Human beings whose will is to pass through the fire, and so they have tried to manifest as though Aboriginal, and discredited other of us. My apologies that much of my writing is still tinged with a hand to mouth reaction against their false portrayal.

Insha Allah each of us will be accepted individually within the Ummah of Islam in Unity. Since the full story of the belief system of Aboriginal culture is that it establishes a pattern in which shaytan can exist without realising that they are exposing themselves as shaytan; and so will be brought to the fire by others in the community. But thereby many oddities exist and are just sort of let to exist.

True believing Aboriginal men are adept at tricking shaytan into believing that all Aboriginal men are as they are; but within certain rules and laws and a measure, at exactly that portion of manifesting their own selves as though ill which is affordable within good self knowledge. In the traditional way there is always a minor manifestation of exposing any existing wrong; and then fear is acknowledged by being aroused, and at the best balance between flight and fight the fear is redressed. So we are engaged in a constant process of tricking ourselves out of black magic by making overly exaggerated the knowable portions of. I am not certain if that can make any sense to a person whom is not so conditioned.

Here is an example: if a dispute is arrising it tends to be that the disputing parties will wave fists and jump about threateningly in a manner that could be construed as mockery of a dispute, if the dispute were not real. In the case of a real dispute every body watches and engages in the process of observing postures and being like eyes for Allah. Thereby, most often, the disputing parties become so frightened by their postures they expose in warming up to a fight that they are prevented from actually hitting one another. This is a frequent occurance in most Aboriginal communities. In the past, and still now in remote communities that have their own policing(that is if the police are also Traditionally Oriented Aborigines and so will turn a blind eye to various events sanctioned within Traditional cutlure); when there is any larger dispute a ritualised spearing is organised. It may take days and days of discussion to negotiate who will be allowed to through a spear at who; but even the shaytan are committed to resolving the matter since they are wanting to see the bloodshed. But in this way the matter is resolved with the least bloodshed possible. All such disputes tend to follow patterns such that most folk have a certain idea of what happens next. Like in real Jihad. Yet there is that aspect in which we are doubly conditioned to show our hatred overly at the outset so as to expose in what manner any dispute is likely to occur. If a dispute seems inevitable then it is pushed toward actualisation before any other matters are on the table. So we are all duly more afraid than most people of engaging in disputes. Most real Aborigines (rather than shaytan who presume themselves to be, but inclusive of many folk whom fell by accident into the ways of shaytan) are far less inclined to want to fault an other person. It is that there is a racial characteristic of looking first to where one's own fault could be: and this is conditioned by practises of initially all falling down to each others accusing such as that it is well feared that we could ever assume any matter of one another.

Truly I am more afraid of assuming that another person might want to hurt me, than I am of them actually hurting me. That is the reality for most Aborigines; and it is a very difficult process to explain the intricasy of the belief structures that maintain such. Especially while our culture is being assaulted by shaytan who will not believe in this simple fact I have stated.

I think it is connected with a physical condition of heightened fear through awareness of every instance in which the behaviour is not in accord with the mental process. But simultaneous with a willingness to accomodate such fear oddly enough. (the thought process goes: "oh no, there is another thing in my world that I fear but am not able yet to know; best that I fall to it sooner and so learn to fear it with knowledge of it, than let it gradually creep up on me.")

Needless to say it thus becomes more obvious why Australians went through a period of letting ourselves get sunburnt, for example, when bikinis were first a permissable fashion: these days we are all very well educated in the need to avoid to much sunlight and heat; and gradually more fully covering swimwear is coming back into fashion. As though we are all engaged in a constant process of finding out what is likely to hurt, only so as to thereafter avoid it. The only problem being when too many shaytan are around whom suppose that we are not experiencing pain.

But now I have made this post far longer than intended, so I will leave it here.

wasalam

[Silver Pearl]

:sl:

I am here now only going to answer the questions you asked and will find my way into providing any other commentary upon your comments as later time avails. Thankyou by the way for being open in your comments. I am sure that many Muslims are very wary of Australian Aboriginal belief structures and it is best for open comparison and discussions so we are all enabled to clarify what is shared and what is not fluid with modern Islamic education from within Tradtional Aboriginal teaching.

The pleasure is all mine :)

You might here be able to realise that I am in a terrible temper in general about some of the wrongful interpretations of Aboriginal culture that all Aboriginal Australians have had to tolerate. The problem is from shaytan whom have attempted to portray our culture as though supportive of their method, and have well forced us into often not being able to portray ourselves any differently to their want.

I can understand the frustration because as Muslims we are constantly faced with the distortion of Islam. Yes you're right its from shaytaan that has caused this to happen, but we must also blame ourselves. It is one thing to acknowledge that shaytaan can misled people but he does not force us to manipulate nor whisper evil about anything. Any misconception about aboriginal culture is nothing to do with shaytaan but the lack of knowledge on behalf of humans.

Thankyou for your ample considerations in this.

No worries

There is a thread recently begun about kafir that I made some contribution to, and that should be best place to look. However my overall knowledge is that kafir are that when we consider a matter that has already been Judged in Allah in a different light so as to seek that we find ourselves innocent after all, then we can only cause ultimately that another person get born without a Soul, whose whole existance becomes then accounted against us whilst in the grave. So to consider such sinful mental practise as causing only animals is a truly preventative measure. Surely, though animals are not Human, they are at least not able to imagine that they are a Human in status.

It would be very bothersome if i have to search and track down the particular topic you speak of. Also this is a new thread, with a fresh discussion and i don't want to dwell into another topic. It'd very much appreciated if you quoted what is relevant.

I did not understand your term of kafir, i'm not familiar with it. Kafir simply means disbeliever. Kufr means to disbelieve. Now i don't know if your interpretation is the same. This whole issue about soul and matter is of little significance. This is what i meant by we are walking on different sides on the road. Can you show me where you got your definitaion of the terminology 'kafir'. I feel that in order for both of us to pursue this discussion further we need to be conversing on the same level. If our definition of a core matter differs we will be raving about different things. Wasting each others time and reaching no conclusion or flawed conclusion.

The eludication of the question can only be in a metaphorical sense. I might have seen a frog when I felt a baby quicken inside me, and that would accord a frog self to that child; but clearly I am not about to give birth to a frog. But if I had happened to be looking at a sprout at that very moment; why then some aspect of 'sprout nature' would, in that Metaphorical sense, become a part of what I must inform the father's child of as a part of what the child will enter the family within ownership of.

Even speaking from a metaphorical sense this has no validity, i'm not falsifying its existence because its something that aboriginals believe. It is not correct to assume that a child may have the elemental state of what she (mother)first stares at. What you're saying is that a mother may look at a sprout and have a human child but its characteristic may be that of nature co-ordinated, correct? Again, it is a very rich way to see life, nonetheless there is nothing that suggests so in Islam.

The system is clearly one of accepting giving birth to Human Souls whom have immediately prior to entry into the womb, been existing in a non-Human natural form.

Perhaps it I who does not comprehend re-incarnation but what you stated above echoes re-incarnation.

There is no teaching of, or belief in re-incarnation, because it is known that such can tempt a person to try to avoid the fire; and so it is taught that we will return to the forms of other parts of nature; but also that through such is the only means of finding ourselves at Heaven.

In Islam we are born, die and get resurrected again on the day of reckoning, there is no such thing as what you have mentioned above, thus Islam contradicts this part of aboriginal culture. Again i'm not trying to stab at the culture, merely i'm stating whether the things you mention is practised in Islam. I hope my reply does not cause you distress my dear sister, for i do not intend that. As you teach me more about aboriginal culture i hope that i can teach you the little i know about Islam.

One of the difficulties I experience is that this is the very aspect of Aboriginal culture which has been most assaulted.

Like i stated previous, i'm not trying to assault or degrade aboriginal culture. You must understand that i'm only presenting what any other Muslim would. If something in aboriginal culture contradicts Islam i will state so thus neither of us have misconception or live on delusion of what we presume to be such and such belief system.

There are shaytan among us who were not originally Aboriginal, but whom perceived a means to try to avoid the fire themselves in trying to accord that all their deeds are attributed to other Human beings whose will is to pass through the fire, and so they have tried to manifest as though Aboriginal, and discredited other of us. My apologies that much of my writing is still tinged with a hand to mouth reaction against their false portrayal.

I do not understand what you're trying to suggest. Shaytaan can not avoid fire if that is where it is destined. Shaytan (singular) are merely evil jinn who antagonise humans, they are not immortal so they can not avoid hell-fire. Dead takes us all regardless of what we are. Be jinn or Nas. Furthermore, there is nothing in the Qur'an or the sunnah that says that shaytaan has tried to avoid hell-fire by changing form. When it changes form they do so to deceive.

There is no need to apology :)

Insha Allah each of us will be accepted individually within the Ummah of Islam in Unity. Since the full story of the belief system of Aboriginal culture is that it establishes a pattern in which shaytan can exist without realising that they are exposing themselves as shaytan; and so will be brought to the fire by others in the community. But thereby many oddities exist and are just sort of let to exist.

Inshallah Allah shall guide his slaves to the straight path and unite us under the banner of tawheed. I feel that the issue of shaytaan needs to be addressed seperately because your interpretation stems from aboriginal belief rather than Islamic belief thus there is a contradiction that arises when conversing.

True believing Aboriginal men are adept at tricking shaytan into believing that all Aboriginal men are as they are;

Sorry, can you rephrase that?

but within certain rules and laws and a measure, at exactly that portion of manifesting their own selves as though ill which is affordable within good self knowledge. In the traditional way there is always a minor manifestation of exposing any existing wrong; and then fear is acknowledged by being aroused, and at the best balance between flight and fight the fear is redressed. So we are engaged in a constant process of tricking ourselves out of black magic by making overly exaggerated the knowable portions of. I am not certain if that can make any sense to a person whom is not so conditioned.

Nothing you mentioned above is echoed in Islam.

Truly I am more afraid of assuming that another person might want to hurt me, than I am of them actually hurting me. That is the reality for most Aborigines; and it is a very difficult process to explain the intricasy of the belief structures that maintain such. Especially while our culture is being assaulted by shaytan who will not believe in this simple fact I have stated.

Like i've said earlier, shaytaan's job is to deceive and whisper evil for deception. It has no desire to manifest into other people's culture for the sheer fun of it. Your comment is ambigious and i don't understand what you're trying to imply. In Islam what you stated is not recognised.

Thank you for your time.

Rabeeqh firlee wali waleedeya

[Curaezipirid]

:sl:

The pleasure is all mine :)

you're welcome

Any misconception about aboriginal culture is nothing to do with shaytaan but the lack of knowledge on behalf of humans.

In this I am adamant in disagreement. The most common cause of any lack of necessary knowledge in Humans is that shaytan are tricking.

It would be very bothersome if i have to search and track down the particular topic you speak of.

I will post it in the next post.

I did not understand your term of kafir, i'm not familiar with it. Kafir simply means disbeliever. Kufr means to disbelieve. Now i don't know if your interpretation is the same. This whole issue about soul and matter is of little significance. This is what i meant by we are walking on different sides on the road. Can you show me where you got your definitaion of the terminology 'kafir'. I feel that in order for both of us to pursue this discussion further we need to be conversing on the same level. If our definition of a core matter differs we will be raving about different things. Wasting each others time and reaching no conclusion or flawed conclusion.

Good point, my Arabic is lacking. Kafr of disbelieving is causal to kafir existing. That is the difficult fact of the matter. It is however a discussion belonging in an other thread.

Even speaking from a metaphorical sense this has no validity, i'm not falsifying its existence because its something that aboriginals believe. It is not correct to assume that a child may have the elemental state of what she (mother)first stares at. What you're saying is that a mother may look at a sprout and have a human child but its characteristic may be that of nature co-ordinated, correct? Again, it is a very rich way to see life, nonetheless there is nothing that suggests so in Islam.

Perhaps it I who does not comprehend re-incarnation but what you stated above echoes re-incarnation.

Sorry but a sprout can not "re-incarnate", and neither can you or I. But also Aboriginal belief systems are far removed from those Asian belief systems in which a "rich way of life" is accessed by causing that other persons take to themselves the mental processes of non-belief, and you seem to be implying that Aboriginal culture is one of such cultural systems in which such is rife.

Perhaps the unanswered question is only "where is it that I am from before being this me I now am?" since if we are a Human Soul then our Soul is immortal. Are you able to cause the full evolution of a Human Soul within your own physical body now in this modern age? Aborigines believe that the number of existing Human Souls is already counted. Were were you before being silver pearl? I was in a Kangaroo. I know this by being able to Dream within Kangaroo form. This is the basis of the genetic difference I experience as an Aborigine. Yet aligned with this is that I bear no assumption what so ever that I could cause my self to exist again in Human form. My body will die eventually because of what it has been subject to. Then I will be rotting in the grave and eventually some of the molecules which now form my body will become part of another life form. Only as Allah wills may I exist ever in any living form, and thus I can not believe in reincarnation since I know not what Allah's future will is for me. I only know that I will pass through a transition. In Aboriginal culture the transition that is a form of the fire of hell, and that can be comprehended as less than desirable by the teaching of reincarnation, and is that fact of existing within flora and/or fauna etc, is taught as a fact of life to bear with pride.

In Islam we are born, die and get resurrected again on the day of reckoning, there is no such thing as what you have mentioned above, thus Islam contradicts this part of aboriginal culture. Again i'm not trying to stab at the culture, merely i'm stating whether the things you mention is practised in Islam. I hope my reply does not cause you distress my dear sister, for i do not intend that. As you teach me more about aboriginal culture i hope that i can teach you the little i know about Islam.

Like i stated previous, i'm not trying to assault or degrade aboriginal culture. You must understand that i'm only presenting what any other Muslim would. If something in aboriginal culture contradicts Islam i will state so thus neither of us have misconception or live on delusion of what we presume to be such and such belief system.

May I apologise to you sister Silver Pearl that I experienced no distress what so ever in respect of any of your posts. That I have been in a bad mood bears no relevance to you. I must apologise also that this matter is one in which I might express that other Muslims have never before oriented to as you now discribe "any other Muslim would". I hope that any other Muslim who would could post here also.

The matter is of an immediate significance to Australian Aborigines because many wish to convert but are being put off converting to Islam because of Shaytan whom are already familiar with Aboriginal culture whom have been instructing Aborigines that we must never believe that we can turn into an animal. Yet for us the comprehension is inimical with Islamic teaching about the fire, and the passage through; in which each of us are given the choice that accords both our experiential knowledge and the fact of the ablity of our Soul. We happen to be a group of persons whom have been already tempering ourselves to the fire long before Islam became among us; and so are very much more readily inclined to believe immediately in those aspects of Islamic teaching. Yet what is difficult is that over the past few hundred years; and there is peripheral evidence to suggest that such began from Asia before the invasion from England: we have experienced increasing numbers of shaytan whom we are in contact with and whom have been supposing to be able to use us to cause that they never need enter the fire.

I do not understand what you're trying to suggest. Shaytaan can not avoid fire if that is where it is destined. Shaytan (singular) are merely evil jinn who antagonise humans, they are not immortal so they can not avoid hell-fire. Dead takes us all regardless of what we are. Be jinn or Nas. Furthermore, there is nothing in the Qur'an or the sunnah that says that shaytaan has tried to avoid hell-fire by changing form. When it changes form they do so to deceive.

My understanding is that many shaytan are able to disbelieve that they can be forced into the fire only because in all the world they have always been able to avoid Animist initiations. That is, for some reason they never become animals. Yet in Aboriginal they are recorded as able to be caused to exist as birds. Islam teaches that a form of green bird will exist in Jannah.

Also shaytan are not Jinn. This is an important part of belief. Iblis is a Jinn whom for a time existed in a form that we are able to comprehend as Satan or Shaytan; but He was redeemed in a relative sense, and is again now Iblis. Yet that form He existed in as Shaytan left a track of self-record that those Souls whom are named shaytan like to inhabit to inform themself. Often Souls whom are Shaytan, are as people, unable to discriminate their own self from the self of the Jinn. Yet they are ill for it is not that they have let themselves be possessed by Jinn; but that they utilise the sin of lust to access black magic with which they have stolen from Jinn when Jinn are in the form of children. Yet also Shaytan have no control over Jinn. Jinn are born of fire and so the fire is familar to Jinn. In that Jinn are able to accomodate Shaytan stealing from without letting Shaytan know that the theft is being recorded and provided as evidence to Allah against the Shaytan. Jinn are willing to cause that the self Shaytan steal and imagine is their own self; is established to be used to hold Shaytan into the fire when Judgement occurs.

Aboriginal culture is effected very greatly by the fact that we have always had Jinn whom we regard as leaders and respected the supernatural qualities of. It is NOW that among the Jinn are many whom are converting to Islam; and this is a part of why I even begun this thread. Because Jinn are leaders in Aboriginal society, in must be ascertained in what aspects Aboriginal culture needs to be immediately changed. Obviously we are already much changed and many are already in full Faith in Jesus.

Inshallah Allah shall guide his slaves to the straight path and unite us under the banner of tawheed. I feel that the issue of shaytaan needs to be addressed seperately because your interpretation stems from aboriginal belief rather than Islamic belief thus there is a contradiction that arises when conversing.

Perhaps you are correct. Aboriginal culture is adept at exposing Shaytan. It is that our men trick Shaytan into believing lies about us but that the trick takes two forms. Either that we seem also to use the exact same black magic when we are not; or that we manifest as very much more ignorant than is real so as that Shaytan believe that they can control us. We are enabled to "let" Shaytan 'do' their tricks through us, so as to obtain evidence of what such tricks are. But in which we must accept a portion of the fire that the Shaytan should pay. Yet by according such to our own self we are also thereby enabled to enforce that Shaytan also accept.

Shaytan are quite cruel in their ways but only because they are unable to believe that Humanity can accept the reality for Humans. That is becaue Human reality is different. A Human to a Shaytan is like an Angel to a Human. Angel's also are attuned to a different reality. Jinn are able to comprehend the reality of Shaytan as well as Human and occassionally among good Jinn, the reality of Angels. It is within such comprehension that Jinn choose to be poorly reputed, and in their self being accessible to Shaytan it is really impossible to prevent. Especially while Shaytan are demanding most perfect Human selves. But this is why Shaytan are unable to prevent themselves being cruel. Most likely Humans would manfiest with cruelty if expected to adhere to the accountiblity of an Angel.

Sorry, can you rephrase that?




Nothing you mentioned above is echoed in Islam.




Like i've said earlier, shaytaan's job is to deceive and whisper evil for deception. It has no desire to manifest into other people's culture for the sheer fun of it. Your comment is ambigious and i don't understand what you're trying to imply. In Islam what you stated is not recognised.

Thank you for your time.

Rabeeqh firlee wali waleedeya

Perhaps the whole equation will only eventually end with many Muslims becoming convinced that all Aborigines are Shaytan faking being Muslims. I don't know and I don't really care what others suppose of Aborigines; but what I do care about is that Islamic teaching is made accessible to Aborigines immediately. For this purpose it is essential that we Aborigines learn what among all our beliefs could imply a non-Muslim idea.

I am sure that we can all agree upon that essential need.

Ramadan Kareem wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

So you’re saying that an aboriginal will manifest their weakness and find strength by doing this? It is indeed astonishing; most people tend to hide their flaw so that it may not be used against them. Furthermore, surely such a thing can not be biological as there is no such gene that exists in other humans. It may be that aboriginals follow the way of their ancestors and thus they expose their faults being it is a cultural factor and not because they are mentally compelled to doing so. I’m sure that if an aboriginal were to grow up in a society where no one spoke of their weaknesses they also would be like that. Sometimes a cultural thing which is passed on from forefather to another can seem like a biological factor whilst it is not.

Those who are over-thrown are neglected in any era; it is a norm that the aboriginal culture and their identity has become merely a thing for historians to discuss (the same with the red Indians). Most of us are not taught about this because they see it as irrelevant. Furthermore, the chances of exposing the true conquest of the land of the aboriginals can be emotional for many. It is a taboo and naturally we can expect for their existence to deteriorate. I personally do not agree with this, as it is stated: “Ardu-llah wasi3” (which roughly translates to Allah’s earth is spacious) and humans should stop driving people out of their own lands. In the period colonization, every powerful country fought for imperialism. Era of ignorance....

A dream is not like reality, sometimes the most harmless matter less becomes a substance of fear in our thoughts. It is strange that you used the term, ‘dream' rather than a nightmare. Surely it would be more accurate to refer your vision as a nightmare but that is simply my perception.

I have written elsewhere that we are very well educated in Traditional culture so as to enable self knowledge within which it is possible to seperate your own self caused Dreams from those Allah provides. Also as I have indicated we have Jinn among us. Jinn are adept at specialisng in exorcism of the effects of Shaytan, and so enabled a culture in which Dreams can be read. The Dream I described was most certainly about to head towards what I would have called a nightmare if I had not immediately woken up and in Allah been able to interpret the Dream. I believe that I was assisted to receive it by Prayer from Muslims in America since it was within a larger framework of Dreams of receiving much teaching from Indigenous American Muslims. The Dream clarified the biological difference in my experience as such exists in the psychology, and so is able to be traced to culture.

The biological difference is proven in that it prevents abuse of breathing during intimacy between Husband and wife. It can be self observed in muscle function during any such activity; but it also accords differences in the structure of muscle groups that are visually apparent. Watching a team of Aborigines playing Aussie rules football and these differences can be seen, but in general I am only able to be certain in such differences from having read many texts about various different physical practises that are not a part of Islamic teaching, and noticing that my body can not respond in the way that, for example, the Iron Shirt school of Kung Fu, instructs in.

It is very apparent as a white skin person who is an Aborigine that we are in fact not overthrown but that our planning for a gradual causing of all invaders to become also Aborigines is more or less on track despite modern economies.

My own experience validates time and time again that the difference is genetic. I can not respond as white culture demands of me to take any advantage in. This is why I am become Muslim. Consider the fact that I have oriented to Islam without any single other person in among all my friends and acquaintances having so oriented, and within a social condition in which such is being held against me, and I am rarely either supported by local Muslims whom find it hard to believe that I am a true believer only because not one of them taught me Islam.

It is biologically based that I can not manifest believe in mainstream Australian society. I can believe in Jesus from my earliest years. I can manifest belief in Traditional Aboriginal cosmology. I believe in Islam. But I am expressly unable to manifest belief in many aspects modern mainstream Australian society. Those aspects I can believe in are those aspects which I can trace to either Aboriginal culture's impact in Australia, or Islam's impact in Europe. The fact of my biology is unequivocal. This has been difficult for Muslims in Australia to accept. Yet there are also many more Shaytan among the Muslims whom are emmigrated to Australia than among Muslims in other parts of the world. Shaytan do not like to be known and so do not like Aborigines of Australia. Yet they flock to our shores to take advantage of Aborigines. However, any Human whom has read this thread will only be enabled to realise that such is the measure of entrapping Shaytan into the fire.

These are difficult matters to comprehend. There is no doubt.

(that thread url is: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...rigines-2.html ... my first post in that thread which made my comprehension most explicit was removed so it is unclear to me how much of my comprehension of how Australian Aborigines were able to avoid the existance of any kafir is able to be portrayed among Muslims; but it is an excellent thread.)

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamex:

I have never encountered an aboriginal so I would be lying if I said I would not discriminate them. However, I know this much, as a Muslim one should know that Allah has created nations not so that we may quarrel but so we may know one another. Brother and sisters In Islam are dear to me regardless of what they look like. A brother and a sister in humanity deserve my respect regardless of their religious belief.

Again I am left confused about your identity, you refer yourself as an aboriginal yet at the same time you neglect this idea. Perhaps it is my lack of comprehension in the way you write. Wish may I add is very rich mashallah. I also agree that stories are ways of telling culture though I wouldn’t go the extent of stating that it is the only method to teach culture. It is also important to bare in mind that whilst culture is a very rich and fascinating thing to observe and study it can also be dangerous. For example in Islam the main reason why so many Muslims have been led astray and left with a confused image of Islam is because of culture. It is a blessing of Allah, nonetheless if not used wisely it can be dangerous. Following one’s forefathers does not necessary make it correct, need I remind of the case of the pre-Islam Arabs who were stubborn about neglecting the faith of their forefathers. Culture also distorts the image of Islam, I and others can give several examples where this is the case.

Then I can assume you refer yourself as an aboriginal metaphorically. It is hard at times to draw a line between what you refer as a metaphor and what is a realistic statement. Clarity would be very much appreciated.

Only the media elevates the statues of those who are ignorant in society, this is not because they themselves are self-removed from comprehending what is right but rather that is what sells. Humans pray on each others weakness and fascinations.

Certain aspects of society are a nightmare I agree, however, I wouldn’t generalize to say that all man made is an element that causes distress. One can not compare nature with what humans have invented. One is perfect and the other is not. The comparison is invalid.

But this is the real world; your statement reminded me of Dostoevsky’s work 'Crime and punishment' in which the protagonist questions whether anything exists. We may play a philosophical card and question the existence of everything but that would make us self-absorbed people.

I get the implication that you’re saying humans need to find connection with plants and other living forms in order to understand ourselves? I do not agree other living forms. As stated in the Quran. Sure enough we can find connection between all living things, nonetheless it does not mean to understand our existence we need to see ourselves as the same horizon as other living forms. Metaphorically that is a good theory but it’s not practical.

Islam is not ‘modern’ thing but rather a universal thing. The terminology ‘modern’ is very much misunderstood by many of us. What we see as modern now will certainly not be seen in the same light in several years. I myself do not read books about legends and myths (excluding the Greek myth, which at times I found rather peculiar). So I’m not well versed on many of the books you speak and thus I will have to neglect to replying.

I do not regard you as a person groomed as an animist as children tend to make errors. These errors are not recorded in Islam, it is the mercy of our creator.

Any new comers to this thread may need to go back over Silver Pearl's first post to refamiliarise themselves with the sentences of my own that this are placed after in her work. Yet also could I ask that any reader also ensures that those sentences are read within their own overall context also.

What is overwhelmingly clear to me is that it is virtually impossible for many persons to believe that a biological difference that is not so overt as skin colour can linger on within a different culture and make a lasting impact.

The nature of imparting culture is necessarily an embodiment of not being clear as to whether any matter is intended metaphorically or literally; but I will establish that my real experience is all I have reported upon, so it is best to believe in what I am writing literally. If a Muslim wished not to be indoctrinated by my thread into any animist belief structure themself, then they need to accept my words literally as equitably as any persons wishing to be indoctrinated within Aboriginal culture to impart Islam need to accept the same words literally.

On the whole in respect of all the above material I wish to establish that Aboriginal culture is not inclined toward metaphors: and in that we are also less inclined toward mental patterns in which cam be "questioned the nature of everything". Above all else in the Aboriginal world view is the immediate importance of environment.

I would also here like to establish that my own personal belief is that the word culture implies an embodiment of Faith in the five pillars. Any other belief structure can only be cult rather than culture. Yet I might make an attempt to establish that the pillar of Hajj could manifest as pilgrimage to a site closer than Mecca for any person unable to afford that journey, and that overall it is connected with a Human acceptance of responsiblity for Earth. So much of Aboriginal travel on "walkabout" could be regarded as upholding that pillar. But most of all I need to assert that the pillar of attending to worldly matters is utmost within Aboriginal culture. That is why I am needing to place any description of Aboriginal culture within a story true to my own life that proves me as a person so qualified.

But over all in response to Silver Pearl what I am needing to establish is that much of her posts are equanimical with the misinformation that has been spread throughout modern Australia about Traditionally Oriented Aboriginal culture. There even exist false dot paintings the promote such and are made by shaytans. Silver Pearl ironically best expresses this in the sentences in which she refutes believing that I have been "groomed as an animist". The fact is that my Father may not have borne in mind that he was "grooming" me into animist belief; but that is certainly what is happening in very many white Australian contexts. Yet my total observance is that such makes us a people who more readily accept Islam. Accepting an Animist world veiw is not to assert Humanity as less than Human! The reality I believe from worldy experience is that once the Jinn are all in Islam so will the rest of Aboriginal Australia be. Yet that my own worldly experience is that of an Australian Aborigine, and a white fella who fell into Islam, there are few persons whom are able to sustain believing in what I am able to; but only because so few yet today share my experience.

Here is an example. The day Steve Irwin died there were a number of bizzare occurrances all around. A green parrot swooped me which can be read as a sign of an early death within Traditional Animist culture. Then ever since then I have been experiencing Dreams of him and his family and even of giving him some rapid underwater lessons in Islam. Yet who can make sense of these Dreams but other Australians?

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

This morning I bought an Aboriginal identified news paper; the one that the poetry in the thread I opened about Aboriginal poetry was published in. It is the most read newspaper that identifies itself as being for the Aboriginal community in Australia.

However today it carries an article stating that there exists an "industry" in which persons seek to profit from obtaining "Confirmation of Identity". The writer tells that it is her belief that the current Australian legislation is too lenient upon those of us without any immediately identifyable Aboriginal Ancestry. There is a clear move within portions of the Aboriginal community to prevent persons like my self and my whole family from becoming able to be externally identified as of the Aboriginal race. But those whom support such are never reticient to accept my Aboriginality face to face. However one woman (actually a shaytan) recently said to me that I can't get my Aboriginality acknowledged, because she hasn't got any material reparations from the oppression of Aborigines herself yet. It seems that most persons within the community of persons whom are identified as Aboraiginal are stuck in the rut shaytans carve of supposing that the identify of being an Aborigine is all about crying poor and crying hard-done-by and crying that the government owes us. So I am taking this recent report in the news paper only as verification that the news I heard about an invasion of Australia prior to the invasion by the English, and of shaytan from the far east, is all the more provable.

Many Aboriginal persons are obviously regarding mainstream Australian society as obviously full of persons of Aboriginal descent; and believe that the more of us are identifying the better. In fact us mainstreamed and usually white Aborigines are held at fault by those who run such newspapers for having hidden our Aboriginality. Yet when I began to publically identify my children were removed from me. I was labelled as insane for believing in a black skin persons culture as a white skin person whom was brought up within mainstream white oriented culture of 'the west'. So for me it has been a bit of a battle to factually substantiate my Aboriginality on paper so as to prove my sanity ("no, I did not have any delusions that my skin is black": that has been the standard of the legal arguments upon which my children were removed); but now, just at the brink of being able to prove my Aboriginality on paper in court, I am faced with an article in the news paper refuting all persons like me, as though we are only pretending to be Aborigines to get rich. The absurdity of such shaytans is that they are point blank disproving their very claim to having been oppressed. Factually I have lost a house and a car and custody of my children by asserting openly that my biological race is Australian Aborigine. I am never refuted in my knowledge of this. But often when I display any faith in the cultural origins of such I am accused of theft from black folk by black shaytans. Surely one would think that by now they would have comprehended what is occuring? Our culture is proving our means of condemning shaytans as effective, if over a number of generations.

The article in the news paper is attempting to substantiate that no person should access an Aboriginal identity unless they can also prove an unbroken line of persons in their heredity whom openly claimed Aboriginality. Well I say fair enough. If that is what the shaytan want, then let them become known as the genuine Aboriginal persons of Australia.

But they will not ever damage Aboriginal culture and cause it to seem as though it is a culture that supports shaytan. Any person whom ever has learned to perform an Australian Aboriginal dance will be certain that Australian Aborigines bear no tolerance with falsehoods in the name of reincarnation.

So that is really what I am making this post for. I had forgotten to mention dance before. Dance is an integral aspect of Aboriginal culture. No ceremony takes place without some kind of dancing. When you dance an Indigenous Australian Dance, then you only know what of yourself your Humanity is not, and that such self you own will fall into that very shape upon your death.

My reputation was sullied somewhat initially only because I dance better than black shaytan, whom bear considerable resentment about being black, and bearing with racism, so as to feign that they are not shaytan. Oh well, I guess they will all have to bear with me being only known as a Muslim of external identification.

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

I am so sick of my self posting in answer to my own posts; but that seems to be the way of this.

However there is a bit further commentary I am finding my self obliged toward.

This is the case. It is manifesting that in the modern social setting Aboriginal cutlure is proving less than adept at protection of children. I have been aware of this for a considerable time longer than most and am at all times in mind of what needs to be in place for better protection of my own children. My base line belief is that there has simply not yet been a long enough period of adaptation from a hunter-gatherer subsistence economy. Not so many generations ago Aborigines were only in immediate contact with close family for almost all the year. Actually not only immediate contact but any contact at all. Our ancestors may have only once a year met up with one another external to very tight knit family groups. So the types of inter faces that I have described as the first interactions that occur were unusual, where as now such are occuring upon a daily basis.

However it is illustrative that Steve Irwin had found a happy medium of culture between the Australian mainstream and the American. In many ways American Indigenous culture and Australian accomodate pride in polar opposite extremes. The American example is definitely provident of better external social lessons for children.

But then, I learned my self in an Irish setting, and without the Irish having allowed me into their culture I might not have learned my own culture so well. The Irish are truly the most adept of all shaytan at shaytan catching after all. But as to whether it will become true that Ireland is the last place in population to enter the fire, why that is still anybody's call.

wasalam

[Joe98]

What is the meaning of the word "shayton"?

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

What is the meaning of the word "shayton"?

satan

regards,

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamaalaikum

Shaytan is Arabic for Satan; and I tend to use the Arabic comprehension of Satan when I spell it Shaytan.

There is a longer exposition of the full meaning. Satan is the name of the self that He was forced to exist within by the work of Souls whose cause is that of inhabiting Moon rather than Earth. His real name is Iblis.

The self that He inhabited as Satan is now that accessed regularly by a group of Souls whom are not Human Souls but yet have long inhabited Earth.

There are four sorts of Souls existing at Earth.

The Jinn, among whom is Iblis. There are eight whole Jinn: but Jinn are different from other people and manifest that one single life form has many individual persons, (usually 12). Mohammed (Peace go with Him always) spoke that Jinn also exist as a flying being, like to snakes and dogs, and in a place but able to move around.

Angels. There are very many other teachings about Angels that I need report little here. The fundamental nature of an Angel is to not be able to refute any self they encounter; so it can seem as constant miracle an Angel manifests goodly innocence, but due to hard work on the part of the Angel alone and in Allah.

Humans. Well if you are not yet knowing about a Human I guess that all I can state is the most of Islamic teaching is about being Human.

Shaytan. As an Angel is to a Human; a Human is to a Shaytan. But because of a sequencing accident in the formation of Moon, that it became into existance too soon, it happened that Shaytan first came into being at Earth instead of at Moon. But they got too naughty, and the Jinn came down to sort them out; that being why they share name with that Iblis bore a while. The Jinn are who took it upon their own self to eventually account for every instance of the black magic which Shatyan have worked. Their work is terrible in consequence for Human; but accords them their true status.

I hope that helps. I am not sure how many Aboriginal Australians are believing in this teaching; but I know of many, but whom have no external means of expressing it or relating what is known within Aboriginal Tradition back into this expression I am providing, which is basically Islamic rather than from Aboriginal antiquity.

wasalam

[Joe98]

I am an Australian but not an Aboriginal.

I only wish all the best for Aboriginal Australians.

Now that we have defined shaytan, what does this mean?

….only because I dance better than black shaytan, whom bear considerable resentment about being black, and bearing with racism, so as to feign that they are not shaytan.

How do you know black shaytan are resentful?

[starfortress]

:sl:

I thought Australian Aborigines was animism,as well the malay aborigines belief.But they were definitely different.Recently i saw on tv in NetGeo or Discovery(not so sure)they do a research about early human genetics,how they spread to all over the globe and of course the aussie aborigines is one of the main subject.

Suprisingly they came to Australia by foot from their ancestors land in Africa,its being proved by a new discovery. Lot of genetics related to their ancestors were found along the Indian coast line.At the same time has rejected the famous theory,they directly travelling by the sea,from Africa to Australia.

However they still have to cross the sea when reaching the Sunda Shelf,now in Malaysia Peninsular coast line. During Glacial periods, the sea level falls, and great expanses of the Sunda Shelf are exposed as a marshy plain. The seas and bays that cover the Sunda Shelf are less than 100 m deep.And that was an advantage to make their journey easier.Today, the Sunda Shelf are invisible because its cover by water due to the melting of ice age process took place.

And i need to find more...:hiding: check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...icolors%29.png

[north_malaysian]

:sl:

I thought Australian Aborigines was animism,as well the malay aborigines belief.But they were definitely different.Recently i saw on tv in NetGeo or Discovery(not so sure)they do a research about early human genetics,how they spread to all over the globe and of course the aussie aborigines is one of the main subject.

Suprisingly they came to Australia by foot from their ancestors land in Africa,its being proved by a new discovery. Lot of genetics related to their ancestors were found along the Indian coast line.At the same time has rejected the famous theory,they directly travelling by the sea,from Africa to Australia.

However they still have to cross the sea when reaching the Sunda Shelf,now in Malaysia Peninsular coast line. During Glacial periods, the sea level falls, and great expanses of the Sunda Shelf are exposed as a marshy plain. The seas and bays that cover the Sunda Shelf are less than 100 m deep.And that was an advantage to make their journey easier.Today, the Sunda Shelf are invisible because its cover by water due to the melting of ice age process took place.

And i need to find more...:hiding: check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...icolors%29.png

physically the Australian aborigines have similarities with "Negritos" in Malaysia, which I presumed have African ancestry.

[starfortress]

physically the Australian aborigines have similarities with "Negritos" in Malaysia, which I presumed have African ancestry.

Yeaa,but genetically could showed the other way...there are several wave and different route of migration were occured during the prehistoric period..the Negritos in other hand took a migration trip in later period than the Aussies Aborigines plus,if im not wrong.. they(Negritos) use a Pacific Ocean as a migration route,while the Aussies Aborigines took the opposite direction,using the land not the sea due to lack of knowledge in maritime.

There is no clear or accepted origin of the indigenous people of Australia. Although they migrated to Australia through Southeast Asia they are not demonstrably related to any known Asian or Polynesian population. There is evidence of genetic and linguistic interchange between Australians in the far north and the Austronesian peoples of modern-day New Guinea and the islands, but this may be the result of recent trade and intermarriage.

[Curaezipirid]

I am an Australian but not an Aboriginal.

I only wish all the best for Aboriginal Australians.

Now that we have defined shaytan, what does this mean?


How do you know black shaytan are resentful?

She broke my nose; well actually she tried to, and then an Aboriginal woman who was not a shaytan broke it for the shaytan who wanted to.

Their resentment towards me only seems to be caused by skin colour. They express it as though hating me because I am white. They have made accusations against me as though I am an oppressive white persons continuing cultural theft from them only because I know and respect Aboriginal culture. How I acquired my own cultural knowledge is completely within Traditional Aboriginal law, but they could get away with accusing me because I am white. However the basis of their hate of me is that I can comprehend what a shaytan is, and distinguish a shaytan from other folk. This is a group of black skin persons whom are inclined toward working aligned with white policing. They are often referred to as "with police" by many Aborigines.

glad to know you are an Aussie Joe98! (but an Irish Aussie or among ?)

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

It is good to enquire as to the archaeology of Aborigines as a race. The oldest existing archaeological evidence of any Human observance of the funeral passage/death rites, is Australian.

Among Aboriginal Australians are those who believe their ancestors always were here; those who believe their ancestors were from far east Asia (One close friend believes His own original ancestry is connected to Korea); and those who believe their ancestors were from India. (often describing their ancestors as Pearl divers) But that is when Aborigines give external consideration to such matters which is rare. Usually we all just regard that we who are here now are who we are.

However I once heard on the radio there has been some genetic code testing done which proves that Australian Aborigines are the only race to contain the genetic codes of every other race within our race. I don't know what that means. Somebody else told me that the races of the world can be divided into seven distinct groups genetically, but I do not know what that means either. However I can surmise that there exist seven distinct and well established cultural patterns which have caused repeating of seven specific genetic traits. But I do not know.

wasalam

[robyn]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

[starfortress]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

Hi

Of course it was mentioned in that program when the American Genealogist raised the theory in many perspective or view abaout the Australian Aborigine originated.He also make an interview with the local Australian Aborigine Bushman,in order to get as many as possible of sources that would support his research about the early human history,and that(Australian Aborigine) guy had claimed exactly same as yours.When he heard that answer was came from the Bushman tribe itself.The Genealogist also respect and appreciate it.

Another thing i have to say,we are here to exchange and sharing our views about others people belief and culture,of course i knew nothing about yours belief and culture,so clashes of views will always happen. However i still respect what are you beliefe and what are you hold.

p/s Learning is acquiring knwoledge or ‘knowing a lot’.Learning process will never stop,untill the death come invite us.:D

[Joe98]

Curaezipirid, why do you call aboriginals "shayton"?

[Curaezipirid]

Joe98, I have not called "Aboriginals" shaytan. In fact I have built an arguement that the Aboriginal race and culture are still holding vast amounts of worth for Humanity; and that the problems which are manifesting in Aboriginal communities in the modern context are in connection with a minority group among all those with an Aboriginal identity whom are actually Shaytan and not Human.

The reason for being able to portray this is because I have established for my self a set of skills in determining whom is a Shaytan. Most people find such distinguishing difficult, and my own ability is difficult to portray without definint black magic. But it is important not to define black magic in any context in which it could be accidentally used by a person whom is not Muslim, and so has not any idea of what is wrong with black magic.

The reason it has become a task that I have attended to: that of delineating that there are a minority group of shaytan among Aboriginal persons; is mainly because Aboriginal Australians have developed a very poor reputation among many people of the different Religions which maintain Faith in One God; and that is because there are obvious signs of black magic at work in Aboriginal communities. (for example when children are not safe)

However I can portray that the social orientation of most black skin Australian Shaytan with an Aboriginal identity is within a self perception of their need for a black police force; so many black shaytan have been self identifying as doing non-Government police work. Shaytan are usually among the very militant folk in most communities. However, if I portray them in that light; they will surely all decide to become Peace activists, such is their way. Within Aboriginal culture their Dreaming is respected as Ant people; and within the social patterns of Ant people it is regarded that what ever an Ant person is expressing, their belief is the opposite. In fact there are quite alot of other Aboriginal Australians whom have adopted to their self that social patterning so as to cause that the real shaytans among us relax somewhat about being turned into Ants. That is the realisable fact. Many shaytan have portrayed Aboriginal cultural belief that between the grave and hereafter we will all exist in another biological form, that embodies fire; as though that belief is the black magic, when in fact the black magic at work in assaulting the Aboriginal community is that which is trying to prevent belief that we all become something less than Human after we die, and before the Hereafter.

I know it seems that I paint my self as an open target for accusations of racial discrimination as a white person whom portrays any black people negatively: however, the harser reality is that when we, as white people, provide positive discrimination for black people, as is legislated in Australia; it is that the positive discrimination must take place upon an equitable skill and intelligence basis, otherwise we are only setting up black people to fall.

For example: an Aboriginal community housing organisation was funded in Canberra in the mid 1990's without the organisation having met all the legal requirements for obtaining the funding; and the inevitable result was that the funding providers had to withdraw the funding. It is no surprise that the funding was given within a motivation of being afraid to be named as racist for not giving it: and neither is it a surprise then that those whom gave the funding opened the door wide to allegations of racism when they withdrew the funding.

There is a social standard that Humanity must meet to be accorded the title of a true believer, and shaytan are not likely to meet such. To my knowledge only One among all the Shaytan is ever accorded the status of being counted among those in the Churches of Revelations. If we say that we will not assess the black Aboriginal community by the same standards as we assess any mainstream white community; then we do them a diservice. Shaytan have in time proven that they are inclined even to believe in acts such as the rape of children as normal, and so it is wrong to let any Muslim believe that Aboriginal culture counts such persons as believers, or would ever award such persons any status. It is simply a misfortune that must be noted that there are both black and white skin shaytan within Aboriginal identities and ancestry, whom have been falsely portraying Traditional Aboriginal society and culture.

I hope that explains the situation somewhat better.

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

I am glad that Robyn is attending to this thread also; especially since, as I tried to make clear at the outset, the cultural conditioning I am with is something of a hybrid between Muslim and Aboriginal. (my credibility is often best portrayed in the fact that as a white Australian I have managed to get out of the mental traps of modern white social conditioning)

But what I really want to tell here in this post is that we often need to bear with other folk asserting a miscomprehension about us only so as that we can comprehend what that miscomprehension is, and then correct it. Therefore it is that Aboriginal Australian are more than likely to be very quitely tolerant of being mistaken in most circumstances. What I like about Islam is that Islam neither conditions us to make any accusation of another person only because of a miscomprehension. We are always given the space to correct any false ideas in our mind, the could have been caused only by misinformation.

So the fact that I am likely to point out any faults that I know of, should not put any body off posting what they already had been informed. It can be good also to compare the difference between my responses and Robyn; and especially since my own education is within a different degree of Islam to that of many young Aboriginal Muslims, so Robyn might not be attuned to the realm in which Aboriginal understanding is more likely to be able to be equated with Muslim comprehension.

I am only making this commentary to expose that I am wanting that any discussion here can bear fruit of finding the real common ground between Islam and Traditional Aboriginal belief systems.

Here is one thing I noticed: most Muslims greet with Assalamalaikum; but to put the words around the other way Alaikumassalam, is of greater accord with Aboriginal culture.

mu'asalam

[Curaezipirid]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

I should add here a fact in respect of the base line belief Robyn expresses. But I am not certain how best to represent this within Muslim use of language. In Judaic heritage there is a distinction made between a Soul whom is so called: "Ancient of Day"; and a younger Soul, more likely to be accorded a status: "Lesser of Year". I am actually the latter.

Among Aboriginal Australians there is a higher proportion of that latter group than among any other race. This is a very significant fact in favour of our racial genetics. What it means is that more of us evolved in Spirit and more Souls have been formed, during a later period of the entire period of the existance of Humanity.

In Islam I know that Soul is regarded in all of us to be Alaqa: so still in embryonic form. Yet even to acquire such a state of existing as Alaqa it is unusual for the majority of the population to have formed Alaqa after the time when black magic entered the world; and that is the case among Australian Aborigines.

wasalam

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamex

To ensure that the reply is not too long I have just quoted anything that I will address, anything else that hasn’t been quoted means I agree with. Or I see no point in dwelling on it as it is of little significance.

I apologise for the delay in reply and I'd like to thank starfortress and Joe for contributing to the thread. It is refreshing to have more people into the conversation, I was getting the impression that it was me and sister Curaepizid at each other lol :okay:

In this I am adamant in disagreement. The most common cause of any lack of necessary knowledge in Humans is that shaytan are tricking.

Perhaps I was not clear in my stating on why I disagreed with you. Me not knowing about aboriginal culture has of little significance to shaytaan. The aim of shaytaan is to deceive; now sure enough some of the ill thoughts one conjures and speaks about is influenced by shaytaan. That I do not disagree with, nonetheless our lack of motivation to learn other people’s culture has nothing to do with shaytaan tricking us. He may make us lazy but when we blurt out ignorant comments such as that of the pope then you can’t blame shaytaan. There reaches a stage where we have to take responsibility for our own sins and errors. It is a human instinct to try and blame others rather than themselves but Allah (exalted and glorified be he) will not punish other souls for our sins. Why? Surely if shaytaan was the one always tricking us he should be the one punished. Nay, we all have duties and responsibilities. The shaytan’s job so to speak is to deceive and he carries out his job well it would seem and our job is to refrain from sinning. It is not shaytaan that provides or steals knowledge. What is necessary knowledge? I don’t want to delve into philosophical tangent but everyone’s perception differs on a topic such as this. It is a necessity to know that murder is wrong, that is an ethical issue but some amongst us don’t comprehend this so they lack any sense of necessary knowledge. In Islam those who are insane are not held accountable for their sins, so would you say those people were also the tool of shaytan’s trick?

Good point, my Arabic is lacking. Kafr of disbelieving is causal to kafir existing. That is the difficult fact of the matter. It is however a discussion belonging in an other thread.

I think I understand though I don’t know why you used ‘kafr’ at the beginning of the second sentence. It merely clouds the rest of the sentences that follow. You’re right, that is for another discussion. Kufr only exists because there are kafireen amongst us. If everyone is a believer then there is no disbelief that is carried out. Which would simply mean that there would be no test, and we'd be the dwellers of paradise. Not stuck in this reality that plunges so many into the realm of darkness and hatred.

Sorry but a sprout can not "re-incarnate", and neither can you or I. But also Aboriginal belief systems are far removed from those Asian belief systems in which a "rich way of life" is accessed by causing that other persons take to themselves the mental processes of non-belief, and you seem to be implying that Aboriginal culture is one of such cultural systems in which such is rife.

I never suggested that sprouts can be re-incarnated; I merely was playing on your side of the turf. I think you took my statement out of context. As for the rich way of life, it was not a pun so don’t take it as that way. It is rather naïve to suggest that whilst Asian culture is tainted the aboriginal is self-removed from such errors. Every culture falls into the same pitch. There is not a single culture out there that does not show some level of contradictions with Islam.

Perhaps the unanswered question is only "where is it that I am from before being this me I now am?"

I like that quote, is it yours?

since if we are a Human Soul then our Soul is immortal. Are you able to cause the full evolution of a Human Soul within your own physical body now in this modern age? Aborigines believe that the number of existing Human Souls is already counted. Were were you before being silver pearl? I was in a Kangaroo.

Allah knows every grain in the world yet alone soul, I was always Hanna (real name), I was never a creature of darkness and speed nor a slow restful being, nor were you ever a kangaroo, or so you think. There is no such basis for such thing in Islam. A human does not die so that its soul can be surpassed into that of another creature, whether it be as small as a single celled amoeba or as large as an elephant. If you're talking about how when as humans we eat say pastry that flour may be absorbed in the body and so that pastry becomes part of us then that I get. However, that pastry is oblivious to realism and it does not think that it has been manifested into a human. Metaphorically that may be ok to swallow but i'm trying to get away from thinking on a metaphorical track considering you stated that everything you post is meant literally.

I know this by being able to Dream within Kangaroo form.

There is not evidence for anything like that but simply what out mind deludes us with. Seeing through the eyes of other than yourself does not mean you were once that thing. There is no substantial evidence to back that up, both in scientific findings and the Qur’an thus it must be neglected as baseless.

This is the basis of the genetic difference I experience as an Aborigine.

However, you’re not an aborigine, like you remarked earlier. It is like me saying I’m Croatian just because I have taken on Croatian culture.
I feel that I’m missing a part of the puzzle. We should separate aboriginal culture with their belief system. A lot of the time I don’t know if you’re stating something as a belief or a practice done by the aboriginals.

Yet aligned with this is that I bear no assumption what so ever that I could cause my self to exist again in Human form.

Tell me does this not reinforce my point that you speak of re-incarnation?

My body will die eventually because of what it has been subject to.

Not really, we die because our destined time has surpassed. Healthy people die, fragile and deteriorating beings still roam around. It is Allah that gives life and causes death.

Then I will be rotting in the grave and eventually some of the molecules which now form my body will become part of another life form.
That is the cycle of life; it doesn’t mean that you’re now also the worm that feasted on you the previous day. For example what we eat becomes part of us but that sausage from the cow isn’t running through your veins as that cow. It is merely insignificant.
Only as Allah wills may I exist ever in any living form, and thus I can not believe in reincarnation since I know not what Allah's future will is for me. I only know that I will pass through a transition. In Aboriginal culture the transition that is a form of the fire of hell, and that can be comprehended as less than desirable by the teaching of reincarnation, and is that fact of existing within flora and/or fauna etc, is taught as a fact of life to bear with pride.

D’accord

May I apologise to you sister Silver Pearl that I experienced no distress what so ever in respect of any of your posts. That I have been in a bad mood bears no relevance to you. I must apologise also that this matter is one in which I might express that other Muslims have never before oriented to as you now discribe "any other Muslim would". I hope that any other Muslim who would could post here also.

Alhamdulillah. It is good now that there are more people posting in this thread. When I made that statement it is because Muslims adhere to the Quran and though there may be different rulings on certain jurisprudence we generally agree on most things thus it is only naturally that any Muslim would voice what I did. Perhaps our writing style would differ and how we express our thoughts may vary but the end result nonetheless can be expected to be similar if not the same.

The matter is of an immediate significance to Australian Aborigines because many wish to convert but are being put off converting to Islam because of Shaytan whom are already familiar with Aboriginal culture whom have been instructing Aborigines that we must never believe that we can turn into an animal. Yet for us the comprehension is inimical with Islamic teaching about the fire, and the passage through; in which each of us are given the choice that accords both our experiential knowledge and the fact of the ablity of our Soul.

D’accord, je comprehend.

We happen to be a group of persons whom have been already tempering ourselves to the fire long before Islam became among us; and so are very much more readily inclined to believe immediately in those aspects of Islamic teaching. Yet what is difficult is that over the past few hundred years; and there is peripheral evidence to suggest that such began from Asia before the invasion from England: we have experienced increasing numbers of shaytan whom we are in contact with and whom have been supposing to be able to use us to cause that they never need enter the fire.

Hmm…Shayateen are everywhere, increasing number of them just means that people’s imaan have decreased not because they decided to migrate from Asia, je ne suis pas.

My understanding is that many shaytan are able to disbelieve that they can be forced into the fire only because in all the world they have always been able to avoid Animist initiations. That is, for some reason they never become animals. Yet in Aboriginal they are recorded as able to be caused to exist as birds. Islam teaches that a form of green bird will exist in Jannah.

I am not aware of anywhere In the Quran where green birds are mentioned. As for Shayateen turning into other forms, I’ve mentioned this before and provided evidence. “The Messenger of Allah (may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said: ‘The jinn are of three types: a types that has wings, and they fly through the air; a type that looks like snakes and dogs; and a type that stops for a rest then resumes its journey.” However bird is not mentioned above as you can see.

Also shaytan are not Jinn.

Sadly that is incorrect. Let me quote you the evidence which refutes your statement. And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies - Shayâtin (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it, so leave them alone with their fabrications. (al-an’aam). This verse clearly indicates that shaytaan is a jinn. In addition: And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except iblis . He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the wrong-doers. (18:50)

Here is the word of Allah, clearly stating that shayateenn are amongst the jinn.

This is an important part of belief. Iblis is a Jinn whom for a time existed in a form that we are able to comprehend as Satan or Shaytan; but He was redeemed in a relative sense, and is again now Iblis. Yet that form He existed in as Shaytan left a track of self-record that those Souls whom are named shaytan like to inhabit to inform themself. Often Souls whom are Shaytan, ..... to hold Shaytan into the fire when Judgement occurs.

There is no evidence for any of the above, if there is and I’m ignorant of it I seek Allah’s forgiveness and would like you to provide evidence for it.

Aboriginal culture is effected very greatly by the fact that we have always had Jinn whom we regard as leaders and respected the supernatural qualities of. It is NOW that among the Jinn are many whom are converting to Islam; and this is a part of why I even begun this thread. Because Jinn are leaders in Aboriginal society, in must be ascertained in what aspects Aboriginal culture needs to be immediately changed. Obviously we are already much changed and many are already in full Faith in Jesus.

I don’t understand how you could have jinn as your leaders, they are their own creatures and they don’t come into our world unless Allah wills so. This conception you seem to have is rooted from aboriginal culture and is not true in Islam (Allahu'3llim). There have always been Muslim jinn: Allah's Messenger came out to his companions and recited Surah ar-Rahman (55) from the beginning to the end, but they remained silent. Thereupon he said: I recited this before the Jinn on the night of Jinn, and their response was better than that of yours. When I came to these words: `Then which of the favours of your Lord do you deny?' They said: Our Lord, there is nothing that we deny of Thy favour; to Thee is praise due.

Perhaps the whole equation will only eventually end with many Muslims becoming convinced that all Aborigines are Shaytan faking being Muslims.

A whole nation can not be Shayateen (plural), every nation has good and bad people and everyone is aware of this. No Muslim would be as ignorant enough to say that all aboriginals are Shayateen. For one to make such a generalization merely reflects their lack of understanding.

I have written elsewhere that we are very well educated in Traditional culture so as to enable self knowledge within which it is possible to seperate your own self caused Dreams from those Allah provides.

Dreams are of either two categories; they are either from Allah (exalted and glorified be he) or it is from shaytaan. If it is the latter on is to keep it to themselves while if it is a good dream one may share it with those whom they love. I don’t know whether dreams come from us as you state. I have no further knowledge on this topic.

My own experience validates time and time again that the difference is genetic.

Ones experience certainly does not make anything valid, if that had been the case then the use of graphology in occupations would be a valid method to use but large number of evidence refutes such claim.

Yet there are also many more Shaytan among the Muslims whom are emmigrated to Australia than among Muslims in other parts of the world.

This has no foundation what so ever, it undermines the whole point of being a Muslim. One who is in submission to the will of God while the opposite of that is a shaytaan. You could have stated that munafiqoon amongst Muslims may have emigrated but to say shaytaan is erroneous. Juxtaposition of the two certainly does not work, it invalidities the whole argument as there is nothing to suggest so. Rather the contrary.

Shaytan do not like to be known and so do not like Aborigines of Australia.

Do you have reference for this statement?

The nature of imparting culture is necessarily an embodiment of not being clear as to whether any matter is intended metaphorically or literally; but I will establish that my real experience is all I have reported upon, so it is best to believe in what I am writing literally.

Thank you for the clarity, very much appreciated:) .

If a Muslim wished not to be indoctrinated by my thread into any animist belief structure themself, then they need to accept my words literally as equitably as any persons wishing to be indoctrinated within Aboriginal culture to impart Islam need to accept the same words literally.

The issue of animism is alien to Islam unless you speak of the exorcism of jinn but that is usually very brief and they do not per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence.



As for the issue about performing hajj to a destination not to Mecca then you can not call it pilgrimage. If pilgrimage for a Muslim was designated anywhere Allah (exalted and glorified be he) would not have been specific as stating where hajj is to be performed.

But over all in response to Silver Pearl what I am needing to establish is that much of her posts are equanimical with the misinformation that has been spread throughout modern Australia about Traditionally Oriented Aboriginal culture.

I have not been fed misconception about aboriginal culture as I have never been taught about it. So me going into this discussion has put me at a great disadvantage. I reply to your remarks from that of a naïve child and all I can judge is from Islam’s point of view.

There even exist false dot paintings the promote such and are made by shaytans. Silver Pearl ironically best expresses this in the sentences in which she refutes believing that I have been "groomed as an animist". The fact is that my Father may not have borne in mind that he was "grooming" me into animist belief; but that is certainly what is happening in very many white Australian contexts.

I can not speak about your household and what happens behind closed doors. I was merely establishing that I did not delve into this discussion with pre-conception about you. It would not be my place to be disrespectful.

Fee amanillah :)

[Curaezipirid]

We will have to agree to disagree since I am certain both in my racial biology being an Aborigine distincly from culturally also being in portion aligned with Aboriginal belief; and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo, only when in a posture that a Kangaroo can adopt. Perhaps it can be regarded by you Silver Pearl that Aborigines all experience somatic halluncinations of turning into actual animals. These experiences are irrefutable and of real physical sensation in every one of the physical bodies neuro-receptors. Such experiences are a true deterrent to behaving like an animal, but award social status. Status is acquired by being prepared to accept such an experience in future without causing by sin.

This is the very matter that I was banned from Muslim Village forums in consequence of highlighting. What I am stating is that Australian Aborigines will be able to become Muslim, and in a united Ummah, not until other Muslims accept that our variety of Animism is: biologically irrefutable and immutable; not at all in connection with the various reincarnation doctrines.

It is best to regard the teaching only in the physical sense. We believe that we are made of molecules which once existed in other life forms; and that the molecules we are made of will return to Earth and exist again in future in different life forms.

I am in absolutely no intention in accusing Silver Pearl of misinterpreting my commentary since this matter is a matter of far larger and more sever misinterpretations in many contexts; but I do care to ensure that my comments are not taken out of context and caused to seem to portray any sort of reincarnation doctrine. wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamex



I can not speak about your household and what happens behind closed doors. I was merely establishing that I did not delve into this discussion with pre-conception about you. It would not be my place to be disrespectful.

Fee amanillah :)

May I only report that ever part of "grooming" me to belief in the flora and fauna of Australia as valid life and of Human considerations, never occured by behind any closed doors but rather in public, at schools and nature parks and in other public settings in which we could observe wildlife.

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

[QUOTE=Silver Pearl;505022
The issue of animism is alien to Islam unless you speak of the exorcism of jinn but that is usually very brief and they do not per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence.


[/QUOTE]


Could you please provide me with some empirical verification of this Muslim practise? This sentence reads to me with comprehension that a Traditional Aboriginal initiation is exactly the same thing as "the exorcism of jinn". In the first instance it is always a brief experience that of being first caused to accept an Aboriginality of Faith. It is actually precisely equivalent to an exorcism, but it accords a secret known only to Jinn.

What is meant by "per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence" ? Is it that you are expressing that Jinn like to get the exorcisms over and done with as briefly as possible since the longer duration of exorcism, the longer the Jinn need bear animal form?

That is factually precise.

The difference then is that in such an exorcism the Jinn are not revealing much; while in an Aboriginal initiation the exact same process is being entered into, but within certain knowledge of all parties to a far higher degree.

I must look this matter up. Perhaps islamonline will be able to inform me since I have found precise data there before about Jinn.

Really when you think about it; since Jinn are to begin with all Animist; why would conversion to Islam take place if it only meant doing more exorcisms without any policing component of the results. Shaytan so often mimic Jinn and I am sure that is why the external regard for these practises is poor; as though a Jinn could force such upon any person. Shaytan try to but fail to obtain any benefit for themself at all times and in all conditions. Jinn take no benefit in exorcisms in Islam. There is a history in which among Aboriginal Australians some Jinn, and then also some Men took benefits in such, but that is only possible temporarily and only by a Judaic accounting system, and in Islam there is no benefit possible for Jinn. That is if you except the benefit to all Men of living in a law abiding society. Yet in Allah alone was this work ever done. Even my father who is habituated to accept favour in performing such exorcisms has repeatedly proven to himself that there is no eventual benefit in Islam. The story of Bhyame's initation can be taken also in a reading of Bhyame having tried and failed to account the situation to his own benefit in this telling. But that the whole of Rosicrucianism is accounting themselves against Bhyame and a daughter who fits that role in the story of being the woman left behind with all the children; I should mention also as the reason I am able to state that Silver Pearl argues within a shaytan's account of false accusations against Australian Aborigines. It is not a personal mention but that Rosicrucianism accords the whole population with any financial dealings with them as wrong to account any worth in the reality of Aboriginality and especially in conjunction with mention of Bhyame, who is factually a Jinn.

Am I tired of my self by now!

(American Animist tradition places the signal of having been used to exorcise at the end of any commentary while Australian places such signatures at the commencement of dialogue)

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

alaikumassalam

I just looked through threads in LI about Jinn exorcisms and they are mainly referring to need to be exorcised of a bad non-Muslim Jinn. I should clarify what I took that Silver Pearl was meaning by that I quoted from her. A good Jinn is most adept at exorcising any person of the influence of a bad Jinn. Australian Jinn frequently are engaged in exorcising the Indigenous population of the effects of shayan/and all bad jinn or ifrit. This work is so specialised and well regarded that it is accorded the status of an initiation, and is accompanied by many Religious teachings in Prayer etc. But I guess Silver Pearl could have been trying to write that she experienced brief possession by a bad Jinn and needed to be exorcised. Usually a good Jinn, like any shaman, will possess a person and have a fight with the bad Jinn whom is possessing them. The person experiencing it manifests only as much consciousness of what is occuring as is their independent will. Then also by will they are allocated thier alone only willing share of payments for the expense to the health of the good Jinn. Such payment might be accepting the fire of existing in an animal, but only within will of Allah and thus by Soul. In most cultures persons are caused to forget this fact. In Aboriginal culture we are stimulated to sustain complete recollection.

wasalam

[starfortress]

:sl:

May i know,what is the main religion for the Australian Aborigines?

[Curaezipirid]

There is disunity in definition. Among us are persons whom believe Animism should be accounted as a Religion. All Aborigines, without exception have Animist belief. No person is allowed to try to portray themself as an Aboriginal person without sustaining full belief that we will become within an animal in the passage through fire, before hereafter.

Also Christianity is prevalent since the nineteen fifties. There are few identifying as Muslim; yet among Christians are all accessing Shari'ra accountiblity. Such is referred to as "True Law" in translations from Aboriginal languages in to English.

That is the answer to that question so I will make it a discreet post; but another matter is raised in my mind also, and I will post about it next.

wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

I thought of a new perspective from which to describe Australian variety of Animism.

Among my considerations is that there could be found evidence that both Hinduism and Buddhism have not adhered to any reincarnation doctrine for the whole of the history of those Religions, and that the concept of reincarnation has only been around since Jesus resurrected in one single and the only actual true reincarnation that has ever been here at Earth. This is a matter of my own education. That reincarnation has become altered in modern meaning to imply any and every attempt to carry forward any aspect of a persons self that they like having about them, including appearance, is a fact that causes that many older belief systems are readily misinterpreted as though attempts to cause that people are not taking with them to the grave their own full accountiblity in Allah.

I believe that there are very many Indigenous belief systems which have long held that we might become alive in an animal body between the grave and hereafter. Yet very very many of such belief systems have been picked up on by persons wanting to attempt to manifest no accountiblity in Allah; and then described wrongly. Basically only non-believers could ever even bear trying to avoid being accounted in Allah. Believers tend to fear that if we are not accepting Allah we will suffer more in the long run; in every belief system, even if it is not within a monotheist heritage. Monotheism is the only way to ensure that such beliefs are able to be accessible to all men; and in that most Indigenous belief systems have always readily accepted monotheist teaching.

In this time we are living in what is occuring within very many belief systems in which Animism was a part, is that persons are being able to assess that almost ever one in any community is becomming within the group whom become only able to exist within an animal body as passage through fire. In some of those belief systems the belief in becoming an animal for a while was long accompanied with various certainties about the means of preserving Human worth. Islam is a Religion full of teaching about such means. Every teaching about how to accord that a person is saved is such. Yet what is happening within Indigenous belief systems is that many persons are worried about who will be left around to preserve Human worth while so many of us are undertaking the passage through fire all at the same time. So in that condition have Indigenous Animist belief systems become unnecessarily and sadly persuaded to orient their faith with a Buddhist thought structure in which it was regarded only as a punishment to need to live within an animal. Modern Buddhism that is, which is different from the ancient tradition in which those big statues which were blown up in Afganistan originally were built.

So within the context of the perspective of this specific post, what it is that Australian Aborigines belief's provide to us all is now only that clear certainty that our Human worth can survive without any need to worry about what might be our true worth in Allah. We could all die and only manifest living within an animal, and ultimately loose no Human integrity. Eventually we could, as Human Souls, re-evolve a distinctly Human species, if it came to a situation of us all passing through the fire at the same time.

Aborigines of Australia specifically are resounding in certainty that the grave is far worse than existing in animal form. Even that existing in animal form can lessen the work in the grave, now and for the Human species in the longer term. The teaching is simply that there is no need to manifest certainty of wherein might exist those parts of your own Human worth that are saved from the fire. The longevity of Human merits earned and which accord ourself a part that is saved, is within what we each are magnetic with in the nature of our Human Spirit. Traces of what is saved might exist in many various and changing forms of physical matter and also finer density matter; while we each endure the fire. Believe it or not, what the actual Aboriginal Australian experience has long before Islam been, is that of earning merit in Allah of constant recollections of Human worth of what the experience of fire in animal form is. That is like saying that we are a race of Scientists whom have been testing the parameters of the Human spirit for enduring fire.

It is also the case that all the many Indigenous persons around the world, whom can not prevent themselves from sustaining an Animist belief, but have been wrongly informed by false teaching of reincarnation and Buddhism, could be enabled to adhere to Islam through learning about Aboriginal Australian's belief system.

But right now that is all I want to tell about since my own self identify is needing to be more resoundingly aligning with modern Islam during Ramadan. It might be a full generation required in time before Muslims as a united Ummah are able to reconcile with Animist varieties of Islam.

mu'asalam

[starfortress]

In my opinion,due to the very long isolation from other world populations and civilizations has shaped the Australian Aborigines to emerged and evolved to something different form of culture,beliefe also thinking.And of course the Aussies Aborigines have something to share with us.

and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo

That was a solid example,it show a big difference from other human culture.I wonder,what will happen to the Australian Aborigines which born and raised outside Australia continental and never have any contact with the aborigines culture.Are they face the same experience as yours?And is there any of the Aborigines belief that cotradict or could lead to violate the Islamic laws?

Im sorry,if you feel uncomfortable with the way im asking you the question,im not so fluent in English,so i dont know any better words than this.:D PEACE

[robyn]

Curaezipirid,

As an Aboriginal woman I find it difficult to understand how you can live both cultures? I'm am also curious as to which Aboriginal community you come from and your connections to to it? I have quite a few connections throughout Australia and would seriously like to know not only your connections, but where/how and from whom you get the infornmation you place here?????

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam Robyn,

Best to learn better about Islam before asserting that there is no ablity to Reconcile Muslim culture with Traditional Aboriginal way. I am here in this thread arguing with Silver Pearl as another Muslim person above being an Aborigine.

You know that film ten canoes, there is mention in it, within the oral history of top end, of the original arrival in Australia of Shari'a.

Aborigines are as misinformed about Islam as are Muslims about Aboriginality.

The questions that you ask should be answered well enough in the first post of the thread. If that is not enough the ask.

I am living now in Brisbane; but am not particularly engaged with the local community largely because of a misconstruction of my writing work by Jackie Huggins, whom I sent some of my writing to for consultation. She wrote back. However all the blacks who sleep in the city know me and they know about my family court case. There is another thread in the cyber counselling forum of Load Islam called "the importance of being real" which tells another side of my story that could help you to orient yourself to who I am.

I am friends here with Samuel Saunders and also John Nawakie. Sam is from Redcliff and John from Thursday Island. The old stolen generations counsellor knew me also but I am not attending the health centre any more and only ever was once able to get to a link up gathering. Most black fellas, unless they know me well, take me for one of those white folk who claim Aboriginal ancestry for some absurdly perceived advantage. But that is comprehensible since I found my self landing at one point among a bunch of occultists whose library I needed to use; and so picked up a fair bit of thier dirt. Taking the situation like a black person would in Australia, as a white person, sort of accords just lying back and taking being portrayed as some evil *****. So generally my reputation is as bad as anybody would expect the reputation of an outspoken white in black business to be.

wasalam

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamext

How are you sister? I have not spoken to you for a long period. I hope you're in good health and strong imaan :)

We will have to agree to disagree since I am certain both in my racial biology being an Aborigine distincly from culturally also being in portion aligned with Aboriginal belief; and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo, only when in a posture that a Kangaroo can adopt. Perhaps it can be regarded by you Silver Pearl that Aborigines all experience somatic halluncinations of turning into actual animals.

I never implied that all aboriginals experience hallucination of morphing into animals. Sometimes we try and perceive the world through a pane of fantasy and our body give us a rush of overwhelming feelings that we can not explain. There was a period of time in my life where I was engulfed in writing fantastical stories. I used to put a lot of thinking into it and sometimes I’d day dream through the plots to perfect any errors. At times I’d have to look through the eyes of a killer, or the eyes of mystical creatures to fully grasp plotline I had created. Now this in no means validate my conclusion that I have been a killer (god forbid) or a mystical creature. Our mind is an incredible thing subhanallah and no one can deny this truth. However, not every sense we summon is real. Please don’t feel as though I’m trying to strip your belief system, rather I’m trying to understand this from a logical perspective. Since you have stated that I should not read through your post from a metaphorical sense I’m finding it that much harder to comprehend all these concepts which is alien to Islam, my own belief system. Please understand where I am coming from and I truly hope that we can put our insignificant differences aside and utter under the banner of tawheed.

These experiences are irrefutable and of real physical sensation in every one of the physical bodies neuro-receptors. Such experiences are a true deterrent to behaving like an animal, but award social status. Status is acquired by being prepared to accept such an experience in future without causing by sin.

I have not come across any scientific commentary to support this but then again I am not exactly a scientist. Do you happen to have a link to support your comments as I’d love to read about it? It sounds interesting.

This is the very matter that I was banned from Muslim Village forums in consequence of highlighting. What I am stating is that Australian Aborigines will be able to become Muslim, and in a united Ummah, not until other Muslims accept that our variety of Animism is: biologically irrefutable and immutable; not at all in connection with the various reincarnation doctrines.

Inshallah you will not be shunned here for teaching us something about aboriginal culture. You must try and understand matters from the eyes of Muslims. Majority of us are alien to aboriginal culture and as you have shown there is a lot of conflicting subjects between Islam and aboriginal belief system. I can not state why you may have been banned as I do not hold knowledge on it but I presume it was not a personal vendetta that resulted in your ban. Wa Allahu’3llim.

It is best to regard the teaching only in the physical sense. We believe that we are made of molecules which once existed in other life forms; and that the molecules we are made of will return to Earth and exist again in future in different life forms.

That I concur with, ‘you are what you eat’ sort of sense.

I am in absolutely no intention in accusing Silver Pearl of misinterpreting my commentary since this matter is a matter of far larger and more sever misinterpretations in many contexts; but I do care to ensure that my comments are not taken out of context and caused to seem to portray any sort of reincarnation doctrine.

Perhaps I am being too analytic with your posts; the problem is certainly from my part and my lack of understanding in the aboriginal belief. Nonetheless my replies are in no means to nit pick your culture but like I have stated several times on this thread I’m merely trying to shed some light on Islam’s stance on some of the subjects you have discussed.

Could you please provide me with some empirical verification of this Muslim practise? This sentence reads to me with comprehension that a Traditional Aboriginal initiation is exactly the same thing as "the exorcism of jinn". In the first instance it is always a brief experience that of being first caused to accept an Aboriginality of Faith. It is actually precisely equivalent to an exorcism, but it accords a secret known only to Jinn.

Exorcism is casting out evil spirits by prayers that I am guessing we agree on at least. A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category. Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity. It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement.

Wa allahu’3llim.

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum Silver Pearl and hello to you sister also,

First I should start at the last part of your post only in reminding that of Jinn a number of things are taught. One portion of the total comprehension is that the shaytan confuse themselves with too often and so a possession could be only the accident of what a shaytan is enduring; but in that the worst for all parties concerned. Another portion of the total comprehension of the Jinn is that Jinn are exorcists and are at this time forgiving men and lesser beings huge quantities of the self that will pave the passage of the fire and let out only whom is accounted for there in full. Qur'an refers directly to this fact. Then there is also Surah about The Jinn defining that they are converted to Islam. Therein pointing to the fact that in converting to Islam they themself will not be any able longer to manifest dangerously possessing others.

These Muslim teachings accord with Aboriginal culture. But in Aboriginal culture, from before contact with Islam, there is not the very clearly distinguished note that different Souls are different by degree of eventual evolution possible. Islam alone provide.

I agree whole heartedly that it is time to put our differences aside within a tawheed which we can both reconcile. Of the seven I am informed of, it is that one which sounds more "u" sounds in, is the one which accomodates my own comprehension better than others, according to where I am born.

Also I should tell that there has not been mirco-biological studies of Aboriginality, but the future may tell about what is our very real experience. Even a shaytan may find themself, an Aborigine, being caused to carry far more of their self comprehension at the density of physical body than among other races. However, I want here only to point to the fact that there may be studies among persons with orange/red hair already existant. There are already many and increasing numbers of Aborigines with red hair genetic, and it carries a similar surprising genetic difference. There are many shaytan with red hair and that is what accords the reputation to a certain degree. But the most obvious fact of red hair is that there exists a biological built in function of the internal experience of wearing Hijab. Not quite that red hair causes that we manifest growing a veil; but truly that red hair is a sign of an internal permanence of acceptance of the reality of affording Hijab by need. This may be a fact that is closer to being at your disposal for study. But access a knowable as adult population to learn about this from.

Then there might open a window of available learning about what exactly is the biological difference of Aboriginality. It is certainly not something that can be exchanged through words alone; that is, unless the words are most correctly comprehended.

In that fact of how my writing could impact upon another person; it is right that you have been very analytical. The passages need to be seperated into small parts, so to make no reason, to ensure that any Muslim not willing to learn about Aboriginality experientially can read this thread without such being imposed upon them subconsciously. That is the good thing about an internet forum as an avenue for teaching.


wasaalam

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum

now I am back in this thread having remembered a significant aspect of culture that I was not reporting upon; perhaps because it is altogether too familiar, even when not in adherence

That is the attitude to food. There are very tight regulations in Tradition Aboriginal communities around whom can eat how much of what food from whom.

Also, and very importantly: all flora and fauna is scientifically differentiated into different groups that align with the social groups that people are divided into; and this accords what sort of foods may be eated. The principal being not to eat your self or your own mother. But to eat your father.

This is accomplished by not eating foodstuffs with the same mitochondrial DNA patterns in the Major Histo-compatibility Complex molecules on the surface of cells, such such reduces the total resistance to disease. It is obvious the most of the problem in Aboriginal health at this time is due to having been given (often in years past as wages; and in being prevented from Traditional Hunting and Gathering by open violence) only wheat flour, sugar, tea, and alcohol to consume. Apart from that the sort of diseases prevalent like: diabetes; arthritis; too early senility; . . . . . show a mass resistence to letting the fact of now very many immigrant shaytan (arrived under Australian foreign policies such as the 'white Australia' policy and modern replications without such racist naming) cause diseases of mental ablity. That is, our racial genetic tends towards sustaining health in Spirit above health of body; and this fact is born out by the nature of the diseases that the total Aboriginal population (black and white - and as a determining fact of defining who is and is not of the true racial origin) is bearing with.

However that stated the knowledge systems by which a recovery can manifest are being truly sustained, as I have described. For example; I could my self learn by sitting in a modern library at the Australian Institue of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies; that my own physical health is best cared for to not eat any cow products and other such red meat herd animal products like kangaroo; and neither wheat. Not for the usual reasons, but because my own living story adheres to needing to know what is not of causation by these food stuffs.

That is all. wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum

now today another aspect of Aboriginal culture returned into the fore of my mind; I had thought to post about earlier but a shaytan had been preventing, so my apology for that

This is an aspect of culture that needs illustrating so I will use one of the "bush mechanic" short documentaries made by the Central Australian Aboriginal Media Association (Caama).

First I will just tell. In Aboriginal culture tradition it is believed that no event which is negative in consequence takes place short of fault being able to be attributed to an individual or set of persons. That is, every death is regarded as being somebodies fault. But also we are ill inclined to blame anybody, but will always seek who was at fault. Anthropologists often comment upon this fact by wondering why a clearly intelligent race had no cultural place for either death or birth (or marital relations) by "natural" causes, and only accord supernatural causes to all birth death and marriage. The anthropologists are so daft. Aboriginal way is better. Not much ever is discussed in terms other than of description of the material world; except for birth death marriage and initiation. Our way is sensible, and that anthropologists were at least good to often note the fact of this distinct cultural difference. Obviously it is always unclear as to whether black magic is perceived as the cause of these supernatural events or only Prayer in Allah. I guess it is also a part of our culture to leave that open to the perception of others.

The story to illustrate is from one of six films depicting how skilled remotely located perons, of traditional hunter gatherer upbringing, have become as car mechanics in places where there are no means of acquiring new spare parts. The films are good and funny.

The one I want to tell about has some men whom have made a rock band. They are due to travel through the desert to another place to give a concert. This setting gives the film an inherent humour. The men rarely take themselves very seriously in the film. But after working to fix an old car in a wreckers yard, the car carks in on route in the desert. The route is a road of red sand through the spinifex. That is to say, all the visual indiciations are that another car may not pass that way for days. So when the car breaks down the whole mood shifts. Mostly what happens is that everybody sits around and nobody does anything. Nobody even tries to look to see what is wrong. The discuss what might have gone wrong. They can not attribute it to any specific person whom could have been at fault in their internal regard toward the motor car being causal to the mechanical breakdown. So they sit around until the wrongdoer realises his error. They get hungry. They eat. Then one person owns up that it could have been . . . . well, that it could have been what ever it was that actually fixed the car. It turned out to be a suspension problem because the car was so heavily weighed down.

Stories like that one are how we learn culture. It is in the daily observance of all Aboriginal children in traditional communities that nothing good can happen until one person at least accepts responsiblity for the ill that already exists. So perhaps we are just less afraid of being regarded as faulted because we are more readily able to comprehend that a positive result requires a negative past. Perhaps even this is why our whole race at times falls into ill repute; as though we are all as bad as the worst among us whom claim that reputation of the best of us. But what else could we manifest in this time than the worst of all persons?

I must add that I believe that a large portion of the cultural strength we have sustained against the worst onslaughts of efforts to demolish our culture and families, is simply because we are in the Ummah with living memory of never having needed any money to be well feed.

Wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Good Grief I am not very good at a dialogue am I?

(but is it that I am not closing the circle or not good at the detail?)

However, I am back again in this thread after having been considering other posts I have made in the last twenty four hours and I have realised that there is a specific story that can be the right part of the Dreamtime mythology for contextualising the media article mentioned in another thread about some work by Dr Ameer Ali. So I thought to put this story in this thread rather than post it in the other thread; especially as it is a difficult conceptual association.

This is a story that is a point of reference for the very immediate Australian collective subconcious in the realm of what is surfacing as potential Jihad material.

Bhyame had two wives. This is a story about his wives. It is set after the first initiation. It involves a character who never even bothered to turn up to get initiated.

That was a crocodile bloke. The Crocodile who stole Bhyame's wives. The full tale is considerably horrific. The Crocodile took them down under the river and raped them repeatedly. I shall not tell it all here.

Eventually Bhyame got worried about their longer than usual absence. He went to look for them. He caught that crocodile whom by then had completely eaten them up. (like little red riding hood and her grandmother but two wives of the hunter) (Paul Hogan, the Australian comedian, does a good narration of Peter and the Wolf also - my mum told be I had better have oboe lessons in that reflection)

But old Bhyame cut open that Crocodiles belly and rescued his wives, by which time of course we are quite dead.

However there is a perfect solution to deadness: He puts us lying dead on top of an Ants nest. We are revived.

Its almost the same as in the Enki and Innana Mythology; but not quite, for certain.

Meanwhile that big darn *******y croc went to its watery grave wherein its skeleton turned to a fossil made of opal.

Now the full picture manifests that there exists still today an opalised crocodile jaw bone: and there is somewhat of a hunt underway for its whereabouts. I know a bloke who told me that it was in his family awhile; but he also told me that he: "put it to work in the prisons". However, I believe that it now is in the hands of police. The Australian police are a nasty pack of unpoliced rascals. But as to the real whereabouts of the opalised crocodile jaw bone: who could tell except for the progenitor of its existance, who is also a knowable character . . .

There has been a sort of Chinese battle of power control going on in the defining of who is whom among all the characters in this mythology: that is, as well as to the actual dispute of the story. (or is that the actual?)

I dunno (by my Hijab is sound so any images of me in these stories are somebody else! . . . except, . . . what , it

wasalam

[Silver Pearl]

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah sister :)

It is such a shame that this thread has been allowed to die so soon after it seemed to be getting somewhere. Alas! we can't have it all. My apologies for also neglecting this thread.

I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan since last conversed.

First I should start at the last part of your post only in reminding that of Jinn a number of things are taught. One portion of the total comprehension is that the shaytan confuse themselves with too often and so a possession could be only the accident of what a shaytan is enduring; but in that the worst for all parties concerned. Another portion of the total comprehension of the Jinn is that Jinn are exorcists and are at this time forgiving men and lesser beings huge quantities of the self that will pave the passage of the fire and let out only whom is accounted for there in full. Qur'an refers directly to this fact. Then there is also Surah about The Jinn defining that they are converted to Islam. Therein pointing to the fact that in converting to Islam they themself will not be any able longer to manifest dangerously possessing others.

I can not say I quite comprehend with all that you mentioned above and to agree or disagree would be stupidious on my behalf. However, I reside with your last two sentences. I believe the verse in question here is: 'And of us some are Muslims..." (Al-Jinn:14). I find the matter of questioning about Jinn both intriguing due to my thirst for knowledge but also somewhat fearful at times. There are reasons why Allah conceals certain things from us and although my curiosity may take the better of me I realise I should not question what was left hidden from our eyes and what we cannot grasp.

These Muslim teachings accord with Aboriginal culture. But in Aboriginal culture, from before contact with Islam, there is not the very clearly distinguished note that different Souls are different by degree of eventual evolution possible. Islam alone provide.

I presume that Islam has always had some contact with aboriginal culture as Islam has existed from the beginning. Contradicting this would be denying that the first Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) were believers and those who repented for their sins. Due to this and my understanding of Islam I reside with the idea that aboriginal culture would initially have had some contact with Islam though we may not be aware of it. Allah states:
And for every nation, there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Yunus:47)

And verily, We have sent among every nation a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (An-naml:36)

Also I should tell that there has not been mirco-biological studies of Aboriginality, but the future may tell about what is our very real experience.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify it further please? Sorry for the burden sister:)

Even a shaytan may find themself, an Aborigine, being caused to carry far more of their self comprehension at the density of physical body than among other races.

This is very Alien to me, never came across such thing in Islam, so I'm assuming it is something from the aboriginal culture and has no relevance to Islam, correct me if i'm mistaken for I'm merely a talibah.

However, I want here only to point to the fact that there may be studies among persons with orange/red hair already existant. There are already many and increasing numbers of Aborigines with red hair genetic, and it carries a similar surprising genetic difference. There are many shaytan with red hair and that is what accords the reputation to a certain degree. But the most obvious fact of red hair is that there exists a biological built in function of the internal experience of wearing Hijab. Not quite that red hair causes that we manifest growing a veil; but truly that red hair is a sign of an internal permanence of acceptance of the reality of affording Hijab by need. This may be a fact that is closer to being at your disposal for study. But access a knowable as adult population to learn about this from.

Shaytaan may be from the human race and also Jinn, however there is nothing suggesting that a shaytaan will only manfest into someone who has red hair. That implies that red haired people are to be avoided as no one wants to befriend the devil for the sheer sake of amusement or for any other reason for that matter.

If one conceals themselves with the hijaab (be aware that the headscarf is addressed as Khimaar whilst hijaab is a general term which is in reference to the Islamic dress code instructed in the Shari'ah) then surely they would be a munafiq (hyprocrite) rather than a shaytaan whom is a kufaar.

Then there might open a window of available learning about what exactly is the biological difference of Aboriginality. It is certainly not something that can be exchanged through words alone; that is, unless the words are most correctly comprehended.

I'm sure it can be understood with words and Sorry to burden you with further clarities constantly.

In that fact of how my writing could impact upon another person; it is right that you have been very analytical. The passages need to be seperated into small parts, so to make no reason, to ensure that any Muslim not willing to learn about Aboriginality experientially can read this thread without such being imposed upon them subconsciously. That is the good thing about an internet forum as an avenue for teaching.

Yeah I have noticed that I'm rather analytical of this subject, I'm trying to grasp the issue without considering everything you mention as merely metaphorical and at most of the times I find it very hard. If I take it literally then there is a confusion on whether what you're stating is from the pool of Islam or rather of aboriginal culture and you have informed me not to look at your examples and posts as metaphorical.


As you state 'Waram' :)

[Curaezipirid]

Waram,

It is a little difficult for me to be certain what is my best response to the new material from Silver Pearl. Much of that I have read from I have wanted to post a new threshold of my own detail from our Aboriginal culture within which to refute. But somehow I suspect that most persons whom read the whole are better off only to go back to what I originally wrote to gauge for themself since I believe that the answers are in the original material.

However I am aware that my language can be difficult so if there are others whom have any question relating to the presentation of a refutation of Aboriginal belief by Silver Pearl then please ask and I can work toward further clarity in expression of the real belief.

Here though I would like to make a clear point about the very end parts of what Silver Pearl has been posting. The fact is that Shaytan are not Kafir. A Kafir is a person without any Soul. Shaytan are Shaytan Soul manifesting within Human form, but when thier true form is rather of insects and birds. Jinn are Jinn Soul whom are able to manifest in a variety of forms by nature of a fire Soul. Angels manifest in specific known forms also and also can adopt the form of a Human. Humans are clearly Human; but could we perhaps comprehend that a Human can exist in forms other than the natural inclination also. The overall understanding is that such things need to occur to make that the world is balanced. While ever Shaytan are existing in Human form, then there will be Humans whom need to exist in other form also, by cause of having been tricked that Shaytan are Human. Most of the Jinn can handle the Shaytan somewhat better than Humans are able. So that is why Jinn provide the methodology of exorcism to Humanity.

One very significant aspect of the whole of the manfiestation of any belief structure known as Animist is that the Jinn have taught Men to exorcise through the methodology of Shaman.

I saw a book in a bookshop the other day in which there is an Indigenous American woman quoted saying that Her Grandfather has mind of fire. Clearly Her Grandfather is either a Jinn or a Man accepting being possessed by a good Jinn in order to help Him perform exorcisms well.

The real definition of what a kafir/Kufaar is relates importantly to the origian need of there being Animist belief. Let me try to explain through the work of Shaman.

A Shaman is brought an ill person. The Shaman has in mind that the person is most possibly ill because of an act of kafr. The Shaman utilises the strength of a good Jinn in "entering the mind" of the ill person. The techinique of this here sounds very non-sensical, but telling the truth of how such can be done would not be right in this context. But it is really not so difficult. It is the same work that an Indian Guru, if he is the real thing, can help through; and is also known as the Science of Saint Mathew. The Shaman thereby, much in the same way even as any Imam can, will learn about what is in the mind of the ill person. The Shaman's work is like the Imam's in that he must detect what of all the matter passing through an ill persons mind is that actual kafr causing illness. Then the Shaman either "magically" removes the kafr; or, as is the reality, provides the ill person with strong mental associations between that specific kafr and a specific life form of the natural environment. It may be that eating a certain meat or smelling a certain plant could have been causal to the kafr in the first place; so associating the kafr with that life form lets the ill person know that the kafr BELONGS within that life form and not within a Human form. However the consequence of such is that upon the death of the ill person the Human Soul can only thereafter commence existing for a time within that exact life form. Thereby the Human Soul meets its account in Allah.

Yet the best aspect of the whole system is that it prevents worse happening through any act of kafr.

We can know that all kafr happen by overly idenfying with the world that is ill, and that we are essentially not the cause, but will need to suffer the consequence so as to recover from existing in an ill world.

If we fail to notice a kafr as a kafr, and have no Shaman or Imam or Guru etc whom is themself in Allah and able to help us to equate the kafr with a part of our immediate environment, rather than of our own true essential self; (yet there in a part of the environment which we have adopted as our own in Allah) then we could have been tempted to engage in shirk in respect of having committed kafr. What happens then is that rather than the act of kafr causing that we need exist in another form that is not Human, between the grave and the real hereafter, it can manifest that in the grave a person could have imagined that they can just be reincarnated or some other such non-sense. Then a Kafir is born in consequence. The passage through Jahannam is that passage of taking full account for every act kafr and any shirk, and so it is a passage in which those whom seek only to accept to themself the responsiblity for many of the kafir in the world, are seeming to sink and fall, but are falling into the way through Jahannam into Jannah. Those whom seek constantly to avoid responsiblity for any other aspect of the world besides that which pleases themself, or manifests them in self righteousness, are those whom are forced into Jahannam and get stuck there simply because they were unwilling to perceive the full picture of cause and effect. In that full picture, Animist belief structures were what pre-dated Islam as the methodology of preventing kafir.

If I accidentally imagined that I could today sew a bear suit, and bought a pattern and fabric and cut up all the fabric, while imagining eventually wearing the bear suit, then unless I can in Allah complete the bear suit, I am in kafr while imagining wearing it. Within an Animist culture the solution is simply that a portion of my eventual suffering must be that of an actual bear.

The shaytan are those whom in Animist cultures were non-believers because it was not detected by the Jinn for a long time that all their own kafr are only that of birds and plants and insects, rather than of other animals. Within Islam only have we learned to distinguish a real Shaytan from a Human and then to accord them their actual status, which is not that of Jinn, but of those whom just can not know themself apart from Jinn. They got themself all mixed up with Satan and other of the Jinn in His likeness. Then they set about pushing a few Jinn down the hole of who was at fault; but pushed the Jinn so far that most of the Jinn want to be in Jesus and in Islam now. The Shaytan pushed the Jinn so far that the Jinn just saw that the Shaytan are not real Human beings but more alike to birds and insects; Ants in fact, and green parrots. But it needed for an Animist culture to exist within which all man are identified with animals before such could be detected.

Let me explain that last sentence. Aboriginal Australian culture is substantially different from other Animist cultures. This is because we are not only being caused to exist, between the grave and hereafter, as animals/birds/plants etc (even rocks in the bacteria within), through exorcisms and because of ill mindedness. We all subject ourself to being caused to exist within an animal form as a method which is inimical with immunisation. Like a small portion of illness of cow pox prevents susceptiblity to small pox; living in the form of a kangaroo, prevents any future susceptiblity to behaving like a kangaroo or enabling kangaroo kaf; that is to say, having previously lived in form of a kangaroo can manifest a protection from falling into Shaytan's black magic through the weakness that is kangaroo mindedness.

It is as though we Aborigines, as a full local community, were all long ago exorcised and that our genetic racial characteristics are determined by that. Yet again it happens that more Shaytan head our way, and so we are falling again through the deviousness they now manifest. So that is why, in Aboriginal culture of Australia, NOT ONE BABY is conceived whom is not able to be verified as having already lived within an animal form, but BY WILL IN ALLAH to Immunise the self against black magic. But also we all regard the world as still sustaining such illness that we must, between the grave and hereafter, exist again in Animal form so as to re-immunise our nature.

Often we seem quite liken to those whom are actual Shatyan but that is the full effect of the immunisation. The shape changer ablitity is that of emotions and mind. When my mind is forced into kafr by a shaytan, then I loose consciousness, it is a biological fact. Not every Aboriginal Australian is yet so fully unable to believe in Shaytan, but we all gradually become more and more unable to believe in the wrong of the world. At times, like in this modern climate, many of our people are falling to the shaytan, but we are able to be compassionate and regard our own fall as what will ultimately protect us, by knowing of our fall only what animal/plant/bird shape it takes.

This is how we ever survived in the driest continent. How could there be so much unique flora and fauna if Allah were not with us in having caused by our very Souls existing with and adopting the natural world as our true self?

I know that the teaching is not unique to Australia. The simple statment "I am that" sort of sums it up. "If it entered my considerations then I am becoming it" is another way to regard this fact. "If my mind falls to kafr then I am . . . ." : surely it is better to know what natural non-Human life form is caused by each distinct sort of kafr than to pre-suppose more and more time in Jahannam is being caused by every act of kafr causing Kafir to be born?

The marked distinction between Australian Aboriginal culture and other Animist based belief systems; is that Aborigines of Australia all regard that there is more to fear that we might have not accounted for ourself in full than to fear in being accountible to a larger degree of sin than is our own. We teach our children to believe in this passing world that we are of the animal kingdom and not in that form we may one day in Jannah inhabit. When every child believes that "In the future I will be my own true animal again" then every time an act of kafr happens, it only causes increases of animals rather than causing kafir. When the whole community believes that we will all only be animals through the grave, and that of hereafter only Allah can know, well then there just can not exist any kafir, since no person is causing kafir. Despite how many Bilbies we might cause.

Any Aborigine knows how to read the world for evidence of what sort of kafr was wrong with their mind. We all can know why Steve Irwin died because a Sting Ray got him through the heart, and a sting ray is a very specific form of kafr. (What about that boy who was swallowed by a snake in Indonesia... had he been talking too strongly the truth to his friends?) Here is another example, one day I walked to the supermarket only because that is where everybody gets their groceries, and I saw, in modern industrial suburbia, a tiny marsupial hopping mouse. It is such a rare sight that at first I thought it was a cane toad (they are not so rare just here, and neither are cats which makes the marsupial mouse a rare sight), but upon a closer inspection it was proven to be a hopping marsupial mouse. So what sort of kafr had I committed to have seen it? The knowledge of Indigenous Animist belief is that information.

But now what life I can see in my environment informs me only that I need to get up off the computer for a while to proceed with those matters I have earlier this morning intended, so as not to be today in kafr.

But perhaps this whole assembly of information about the beliefs of Aboriginal Australia really needed to be, in the first instance, placed well within the full set of beliefs which is internationally regarded as Animist, and Shamanic.

waram

[Curaezipirid]

Waram,

I hope that it is not only the moderating team who will be reading this, but believe that there are others with an real interest in Aboriginal Australian culture who warrant my continuing to re-post in this thread occassionally, despite the lack of other folk posting.

This post is a reflection upon another post I have made in which one of the aspects of a Muslims general schooling is actually at odds with Aboriginal culture, and so the situation is in need of exposing. It is in the context of marriages, which can be difficult to describe.

However what makes this specific matter all the more difficult to describe, is that there are already too many negative reflections upon it from persons whom only wish harm upon Aboriginal culture.

The usual anthropological way of describing the facts is to try to call it an "open marriage system". In fact it was never that. There were always very strict rules regulating whom was eligible to marry whom.

However where the term "open" came to be used, was in the context that a brother might lend one among his wives, if he has more than one, to another man whom is in that same category of being a man able to marry her. Like a temporary marriage is contracted between two men about the permanent wife of one of them. Clearly the permanent Husband will not make such arrangments unless he is advantaged by, and his wife willing.

Most often these arrangements are used when a stranger, or a known man, has arrived travelling through, and has not brought his own wife with him. Often what seems to be the case is that women are traded like commodities, but factually the women have a high degree of control over what is happening to their bodies. There is a cultural feature that I allude to else where, and which is compatible with Islam, in that we each regard our self as like to a commodity. So if a man seems to be making an arrangment to his advantage in respect of his wife, it is not that he regards himself as able to force her into any arrangment, but that he regards her self as his property. Similarly a clan under a patriarch would suppose that a certain number of the men in that clan were 'themself', or in aspects of themself, communal rather than private property. But certainly not communal to everybody or anybody, but only within specific set groups whom had all undertaken the same initition paths into the sacred knowledge inheritance.

However, the issue in which a distinct disagreement arises is that in which a women is able to be sort of sold, or at least traded within certainty of return in equal worth.

Even more difficult is that at times a very good wife with specific talent, but one married to a man within a specific leadership ability, might have been offered to a stranger as a temporary bride, but without actual trust on the part of her husband or herself for the stranger. Yet in an act designed to be the most expedient method of permanently connecting the stranger with the local Ummah, or, if not, hastening his death. Such tasks were not performed as prostitution, and there was a strong regard that thereby they needed to be carried out by those very good wives whom would not take any personal advantage of the situation.

Yet with all that has been perpetrated against Aboriginal society, the social pattern has manifested in modern times almost akin to prostition, but still without the woman being advantaged. To equate the regard with American Indigenous culture, it is as though our Sqaws have a ridiculous quantity of feathers in their hair.

When a newcomer arrives, if there is any doubt about whether he is shaytan, then the method of lending him a skilled wife is the most expedient means of ascertaining what he is. For that purpose many men might become involved in the total dynamic, though obviously not physically. Yet most close brothers might have loaned each other their wife for a time, and so the whole Ummah has a deeply entrenched concern with the sexual behaviour of every of its members.

Nobody gets a private life is basic. As basic to being an Aborigine as it is to being a Muslim in the Ummah of Islam.

Aboriginal society existed for a very long time in which it was only sexual behaviour and killing animals to eat which accorded death for many of us.

Already Traditional Aboriginal communities are certain in knowledge that the eventual major change to our society will only be that of sustaining a pattern of one man one wife, eventually, and when there are equal numbers of men and women, and no shaytan getting about, that is. Well, actually, maybe we won't eat meat either; but somehow the idea of not eating meat is harder to confront for us often than is celibacy.

But why?

and when we most often these days all seem like prostitutes . . .

But really the belief is that a betrothal occurs which can be permanent or not permanent, depending entirely upon adherence to law. Either party infringes Shari'ah towards the other and there is a way out of the betrothal. Marriage is only cemented with a baby, and to that there are occassionally babies whose paternity is not so important biologicially, as it is in mental associations. Such phenomena are not regarded as negative function within Aboriginal culture; except only in that such manifestations have attracted negative speculations from external to Aboriginal culture.

There is, what seems to me, an inversion of American Indigenous management of pride. Being shameless is regarded as a high social status. Yet in every aspect of sexual conduct, in any contact, deep shame is entrenched, and regarded as proper. I guess that is what enables the type of marital arrangements which I have described. There are also very strict divisions of labour between the genders in all sacred matters.

Waram

[Curaezipirid]

Waram

Here is a website which teaches portion of Aboriginal belief structure for children. It is made by the Australian National Public Network television broadcaster, with the community whom are featured, including substantial input from the children as to how they are coping and relating with what has become of the world. The children are all well skilled in inter-cultural dialogue.

http://www.usmob.com.au

waram

[Curaezipirid]

Salam Waram Hello Shalom whatever word you need to greet you alaykum

There has been in my mind a problem about this thread. I seem to have been so far within my own culture in portraying my culture, as to not have been able to fully revealed our cultural strengths.

I wrote that we can not, if in our culture, describe it from any perspective external to it.

But today I though to try because of needing to express what it is not, because I fear about ills that could befall any persons whom misconceive of it.

But I find that I can not reveal. That is the key to us. If you misconceive of us, you become automated into a pattern of learning the truth the hard way.

There is not much else to say really.

But I can tell a little bit more. Our culture relies upon empathy with relationship more than object. That might not need to be relationship between two persons, but perhaps the relationship between a tree and a mountain, or a rock and the sand. But also Human relationships are more important than individual Human participants.

The principal to comprehend is that the whole is more than the sum of its parts. So in a group of two or three persons, our nature as a group is more than the contribution each individual is making.

That equation can only be real if we are in belief in Allah. As Human biology lectures teach that the sum of all the cells in our liver is greater than the contribution of each individual cell, so need Human society be regarded as greater than the contribution of each individual Human.

Thankfully that is a law which can not apply unless the contributions being made are in the direction of Jannah, and attaining everlasting life in Allah.

That is why it is so difficult to relate to a culture in which there is an understanding that entry to Jahannam is the method for some folk of attaining Jannah. So nobody in our culture pressures anybody to so accept.

In fact, our marsupials are known to be an animal which a Human Alaqa can inhabit without ever being in Jahannam. That is a really really important aspect of our way. A man can die, and deliver himself from his body in perfect innocence, but then choose to enter a marsupial, for no reason other than the love of Allah. But because he has evidence that such an experience is enabling of Allah to bless his existance with a higher capacity to stabilise the mind in the sunlight of Allah's will.

Other persons in our culture, might never find themselves able to enter an animal, but rather always fall to birds or insects.

But the point is that it is by relationship and valuing relationship as a phenomenon, that we are enabled.

Remember that focussing upon differences highlights similarities, while focussing upon similarity highlights differences. Focus upon relationship forms a certainty of individuality in decision making processes, and that above all else is what sets our culture apart.

Salam

[Curaezipirid]

Salamualaykum,

This morning pondering upon warfare a new way of defining Aboriginal culture popped into my mind. It has reference to another post in another forum in which I did define the method our culture engages of preventing sihr from deluding us. But this is the nuts and bolts of why we believe we turn into animals:

What the trick of sihr Gog and Magog use, caused to many of the ancestors in very remote antiquity, of Aboriginal Australians, was the following: If we depict ourselves accepting our own accountiblity in Allah, then we are accused by shatyan for accepting that account, as though acceptance of Allah is the crime, rather than the crime being what we can accept as our wrong by keeping our mind to Allah. The fact is that shaytan will find something wrong with us in any Human expression. If we are perfect, then we are only too perfect. So we face a situation in which either we let ourselves manifest out of Hijab, showing the face of our Humanity, and become accused wrongly for that; or, we keep total Hijab, in which we are then accused as though we cover because we need to hide our wrong. Clearly both accusations are wrong. It is the shaytan themselves they imagine we are alike to. Their way of being covered is in hiding, and their way of showing a Human face is as a wrong. Yet how to escape their accusations upon us defeats us. Except only in one thing.

We Aboriginal Australians prove to the shayteen directly, that we each accept upon our self the face of one perfectly criminal manifestation, but which they already know we are innocent of. So we each have a nice hairy marsupial face, in which we are not in Hijab, and of which, shayteen can imagine of us all they like, and we all know they are not imagining truth. That keeps them happy. Especially because they suppose themselves to be the victors, because try as they might to win by imitating our strategy, even by appearing in the vanity of a marsupial themselves, it has proven to be that case that a shayteen is not able to manifest as any form of mammal. They only manifest birds and insects, but are adept at forcing us to manfiest any non-Human expression which we are susceptible to falling to. So we hide our Humanity by keeping it in Hijab, and throw to the shayteen the appearance of the bone of an animal we know we are not, yet will let our face become.

It is only that we are giving them a game that they like to play better than any other.

Salamualaykum rebecca

[Curaezipirid]

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah sister :)

It is such a shame that this thread has been allowed to die so soon after it seemed to be getting somewhere. Alas! we can't have it all. My apologies for also neglecting this thread.

I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan since last conversed.



I can not say I quite comprehend with all that you mentioned above and to agree or disagree would be stupidious on my behalf. However, I reside with your last two sentences. I believe the verse in question here is: 'And of us some are Muslims..." (Al-Jinn:14). I find the matter of questioning about Jinn both intriguing due to my thirst for knowledge but also somewhat fearful at times. There are reasons why Allah conceals certain things from us and although my curiosity may take the better of me I realise I should not question what was left hidden from our eyes and what we cannot grasp.




I presume that Islam has always had some contact with aboriginal culture as Islam has existed from the beginning. Contradicting this would be denying that the first Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) were believers and those who repented for their sins. Due to this and my understanding of Islam I reside with the idea that aboriginal culture would initially have had some contact with Islam though we may not be aware of it. Allah states:
And for every nation, there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Yunus:47)

And verily, We have sent among every nation a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (An-naml:36)




I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify it further please? Sorry for the burden sister:)

Here, refereing back to my original, I am meaning that fields of study such as immuno-genetics, have not pain due consideration to the real worth of the immunity present in Australian Aborigines. Immunity to shaytan that is. So we might suspect that shaytan hold the purse strings of such fields of study and no more volunteer to become subjects of such study.

[
This is very Alien to me, never came across such thing in Islam, so I'm assuming it is something from the aboriginal culture and has no relevance to Islam, correct me if i'm mistaken for I'm merely a talibah.

This is shocking to me Silver Pearl, that you had not known it to be a part of Islam that we must always endeavour to cause the maximum of our knowledge to be manifest in the physical body.

[
Shaytaan may be from the human race and also Jinn, however there is nothing suggesting that a shaytaan will only manfest into someone who has red hair. That implies that red haired people are to be avoided as no one wants to befriend the devil for the sheer sake of amusement or for any other reason for that matter.

I had not intended that meaning. The fact is that shayteen themselves do not manifest in red hair. We folk with red hair are a different, but similar phenomenon. The liason between the genetic and the Devil is certainly never amusing, but one of a genetic capacity to hold with a far greater extent of fear, without ever expressing.

[
If one conceals themselves with the hijaab (be aware that the headscarf is addressed as Khimaar whilst hijaab is a general term which is in reference to the Islamic dress code instructed in the Shari'ah) then surely they would be a munafiq (hyprocrite) rather than a shaytaan whom is a kufaar.

Hijab is not manfiesting your appearance in mind or in Dreams, or letting it manifest in any other persons mind. Munafiq is who had professed faith in Islam by pronouncing shahada, then proven themselves to have never truly believed. Kufaar are different from shaytaan. Shaytaan are who never want to believe but always want to prove that others are neither believers. Kufaar are not ever in Allah, but are found to be caused by us who can be in Allah forgetting to sustain our self in Allah. Therefore the shaytaan cause more kufaar then Human beings, but because Human beings can conceptualise accepting responsiblity for kafr, while shaytan always only try to escape responsiblity for kafr, the kufaar are for Humanity to manage and not for any shaytaan to do.

[
I'm sure it can be understood with words and Sorry to burden you with further clarities constantly.



Yeah I have noticed that I'm rather analytical of this subject, I'm trying to grasp the issue without considering everything you mention as merely metaphorical and at most of the times I find it very hard. If I take it literally then there is a confusion on whether what you're stating is from the pool of Islam or rather of aboriginal culture and you have informed me not to look at your examples and posts as metaphorical.


As you state 'Waram' :)

Took me awhile to get around to reading this, and the earlier silver pearl post I will respond to now also.

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamext

How are you sister? I have not spoken to you for a long period. I hope you're in good health and strong imaan :)




I never implied that all aboriginals experience hallucination of morphing into animals. Sometimes we try and perceive the world through a pane of fantasy and our body give us a rush of overwhelming feelings that we can not explain. There was a period of time in my life where I was engulfed in writing fantastical stories. I used to put a lot of thinking into it and sometimes I’d day dream through the plots to perfect any errors. At times I’d have to look through the eyes of a killer, or the eyes of mystical creatures to fully grasp plotline I had created. Now this in no means validate my conclusion that I have been a killer (god forbid) or a mystical creature. Our mind is an incredible thing subhanallah and no one can deny this truth. However, not every sense we summon is real. Please don’t feel as though I’m trying to strip your belief system, rather I’m trying to understand this from a logical perspective. Since you have stated that I should not read through your post from a metaphorical sense I’m finding it that much harder to comprehend all these concepts which is alien to Islam, my own belief system. Please understand where I am coming from and I truly hope that we can put our insignificant differences aside and utter under the banner of tawheed.



I have not come across any scientific commentary to support this but then again I am not exactly a scientist. Do you happen to have a link to support your comments as I’d love to read about it? It sounds interesting.

the mistakes about our way which you make are only those which we always account for because our culture is designed to cause that certain persons can not perceive anything other of us

this thread has the most lengthy depiction of Aboriginal way of any. It is bereft only in that I have not put out into the world knowledge of our actual good practise with children.

[


Inshallah you will not be shunned here for teaching us something about aboriginal culture. You must try and understand matters from the eyes of Muslims. Majority of us are alien to aboriginal culture and as you have shown there is a lot of conflicting subjects between Islam and aboriginal belief system. I can not state why you may have been banned as I do not hold knowledge on it but I presume it was not a personal vendetta that resulted in your ban. Wa Allahu’3llim.

I think it is part of the exact same phenomenon, of persons not yet enabled within Aboriginal Australian culture, just not being able to grasp it. It usually requires about three generations to learn. There are among us persons whom trace their ancestry back to an invasion by Chinese about 350 years ago, that is 150 years before the English arrived. Those individuals are usually not able to be detected as not being totally in culture to a non-Aborigine. But to us they are still today very obvious as not fully accepting our culture. Even by comparison to the Aboriginal shaytan, they are not yet fully relating within our way. It is very obvious really.

[
That I concur with, ‘you are what you eat’ sort of sense.




Perhaps I am being too analytic with your posts; the problem is certainly from my part and my lack of understanding in the aboriginal belief. Nonetheless my replies are in no means to nit pick your culture but like I have stated several times on this thread I’m merely trying to shed some light on Islam’s stance on some of the subjects you have discussed.



Exorcism is casting out evil spirits by prayers that I am guessing we agree on at least. A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category. Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity. It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement.

Wa allahu’3llim.

A person possessed by a shaytan might manifest a mental illness. The shaytan usually manifest mental illness if regarded within an Islamic based culture, or the mainstream 'West', where shaytan are the empitomy of schizophrenia. Within traditional Australian culture shaytan might only be known as a fighting bird person, or some other description fitting. There is no definition of being mentally ill within Aboriginal culture. Reason is always found in the behaviour. Either the behaviour of the person named ill by the west, or the behaviour of other people whom wanted to harm that person. (usually shaytan) Shaytan are also named often as Ant people. Some are fire ants, (those are the danger), others are honey ants, and others are meat ants etc. Each sort of ant aligns with a tribe of Israel actually. Honey pot Ants are great fun.


However it also ought to be told that if we say that every person possessed by Djinn were necessarily insane, then we might prove only that every exorcism is a process of making the person being exorcised insane. The Muslim Djinn cause sanity, for if they did not, whom could prevent us all from the insanity of shayteen.

The Djinn are proving their own sanity perfect even when disabled from making claim to the identity of the sane. By the nature of real Djinn it is that if you accuse any Muslim Djinn in Allah of being insane, you prove only the insanity of every person whom so assumes their own advantage.

Silver Pearl wrote:
"A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category."
this is not true or how could the surah The Jinn be, and how could a real exorcism ever happen.
Silver Pearl wrote:
"Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity."
You imply that the state of insanity, (perhaps caused by possession by shayteen, whom often tempt a person to engage in sexual behaviour causal to diseases which manifest either as an STD or as insanity), is a state in which the person can not accept being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn. But thereby you imply that if they could bear being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn they would be sane. So you prove me and not yourself, in my commentary upon your first sentence.
Sliver Pearl wrote:
"It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement. "
Are you speculating upon the breadth of what control Djinn may manifest through enabling the minds of Humanity? Certainly it is possible for all sorts of things to be done by possession, but every thing done precludes another thing. Perhaps if I do making cup cakes, I preclude you making a muffin, but perhaps if I do making cup cakes I preclude you making cup cakes. Either way you can still make either cup cakes or muffins. The difference is in the method by which I do. The shayteen possess only through the method of using the self. Djinn can possess through self but also Spirit, and so with love. When shayteen express love the become akin to a fire ant, but perhaps that is because they are only able to reduce a Human self, and not enlarge it. Where as Muslim Djinn are very adept at enlarging Human self.

salam

[Silver Pearl]

Asalamu alaykum warahamtullaah,

Firstly I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan. I hope that Allaah grants you goodness in this world and the hereafter. It has been a long time since I have had the pleasure to talk to you. I hope all is well with you sister :)

I have decided that there is much you could teach me, so I will mostly read and ask for clarity and make reference to Islaamic teachings if need be in certain aspects.

This is shocking to me Silver Pearl, that you had not known it to be a part of Islam that we must always endeavour to cause the maximum of our knowledge to be manifest in the physical body.

I'm sorry if I gave you the false image that I knew anything about Islaam. I'm amongst the laymen. I didn't know from the little knowledge I have.

I had not intended that meaning. The fact is that shayteen themselves do not manifest in red hair. We folk with red hair are a different, but similar phenomenon. The liason between the genetic and the Devil is certainly never amusing, but one of a genetic capacity to hold with a far greater extent of fear, without ever expressing.

Can you kindly expand on this idea? I don't fully understand, thank you.

Hijab is not manfiesting your appearance in mind or in Dreams, or letting it manifest in any other persons mind.

This is a unique way of understanding hijaab. Hijaab dictates how you're perceived and how you portray yourself. I'm sure you're aware of the importance of the hijaab in Islam. It is not a head-covering, which usually people define it in simple language but rather it is a dress-code and related attitude.

Munafiq is who had professed faith in Islam by pronouncing shahada, then proven themselves to have never truly believed.

You're correct, basically a hyprocrite.

Kufaar are different from shaytaan. Shaytaan are who never want to believe but always want to prove that others are neither believers. Kufaar are not ever in Allah, but are found to be caused by us who can be in Allah forgetting to sustain our self in Allah. Therefore the shaytaan cause more kufaar then Human beings, but because Human beings can conceptualise accepting responsiblity for kafr, while shaytan always only try to escape responsiblity for kafr, the kufaar are for Humanity to manage and not for any shaytaan to do.

Allaah knows best. I do not know sorry so I can not comment.

Took me awhile to get around to reading this, and the earlier silver pearl post I will respond to now also.

It is perfectly fine, it has taken me a while to pertake in this thread again.

the mistakes about our way which you make are only those which we always account for because our culture is designed to cause that certain persons can not perceive anything other of us

I understand, this reminded me of what A scholar, Imam As-Suyuti said (May Allaah be pleased with him). It is much like how the uneducated in shari'eeh is not allowed to go into sufism for danger that it will stray them. Is that what you mean? That because I do not know your culture or comprehend it that it would be dangerous for me to dwelve into it? If that is the case, I see the sense in it.

this thread has the most lengthy depiction of Aboriginal way of any. It is bereft only in that I have not put out into the world knowledge of our actual good practise with children.

I have to agree with your first statement. As for your latter statement, then perhaps you can talk about it more?

I think it is part of the exact same phenomenon, of persons not yet enabled within Aboriginal Australian culture, just not being able to grasp it. It usually requires about three generations to learn.

Ya Rabb! (O Lord!) it is so difficult to learn it. It is much easier to study Islaam. If you put the same amount of passion and dedication it is amazing how far you would get. Indeed Islaam is easy.

There are among us persons whom trace their ancestry back to an invasion by Chinese about 350 years ago, that is 150 years before the English arrived. Those individuals are usually not able to be detected as not being totally in culture to a non-Aborigine. But to us they are still today very obvious as not fully accepting our culture. Even by comparison to the Aboriginal shaytan, they are not yet fully relating within our way. It is very obvious really.

Inform me of something, for I am in the dark in this. Do you say you see the shaytaan with your naked eye? Or is an assumption that amongst your folks are some that are shaytaan? In Islaam the issue of jinn is one that is really discussed in such detail as you do. For one it is dangerous and turns the heart and causes it to not rest. Some even go to the extent of seeking jinn to befriend them, not even knowing whether they will be good or bad. It is advisable to neglect such path as it will cause danger more than comfort if you're not a scholar of the field.

A person possessed by a shaytan might manifest a mental illness. The shaytan usually manifest mental illness if regarded within an Islamic based culture, or the mainstream 'West', where shaytan are the empitomy of schizophrenia.

Can you bring forth an article or something that I can read on about this?

this is not true or how could the surah The Jinn be, and how could a real exorcism ever happen.

A person who is possessed can be distinguished because they are not acting normal. I guess in the end it would vary on the person but I don't know anyone (I speak of scholars and those who have knowledge on this) who would say a possessed person is sane.

You imply that the state of insanity, (perhaps caused by possession by shayteen, whom often tempt a person to engage in sexual behaviour causal to diseases which manifest either as an STD or as insanity), is a state in which the person can not accept being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn.

That is what I was alluding at, the jinn and the humans don't mix unless Allaah wills so. Those jinn who manifest into humans are recorded in history and have been mentioned, however, as for them governing, I have not come across it. Sulaymaan (alayhi salaam) had the power to make jinn do as he wished by the mercy of Allaah.
And there were gathered before Sulaymaan his hosts of jinns and men, and birds, and they all were set in battle order (marching forwards). (27:17)

There is recording and evidence to show that jinn were governed, but not themselves as governers. Now in the realm of jinn I do not doubt that there might be Muslim jinn who rule, the same rules apply I presume, God knows best.

But thereby you imply that if they could bear being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn they would be sane. So you prove me and not yourself, in my commentary upon your first sentence.

The issue is not about Muslim jinn, but rather of those jinn who are evil and my statement still stands I believe. Are you suggesting that a jinn can possess a human and there would be complete harmony?

And God knows best.