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View Full Version : Israel fired ONE MILLION cluster bombs on lebanon, IDF also admits use of PHSPHOROUS



Kidman
09-12-2006, 08:09 PM
IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon

By Meron Rappaport

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.

The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.

MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.

The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.

+ More if you read on...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

Kidman
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 08:52 PM
Actually it was 1800 Cluster Bombs, with boblets inside.

Should people begin to fight wars with barbie dolls? There seems to be no outrage at the nails put in Katusha Rockets to kill civilians.

Remember, International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 08:55 PM
that is horrible...
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Fishman
09-12-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
Actually it was 1800 Cluster Bombs, with boblets inside.

Should people begin to fight wars with barbie dolls? There seems to be no outrage at the nails put in Katusha Rockets to kill civilians.
:sl:
Cluster bombs are banned, and so is phosphorous. if you really wanted to save lives you would use guided rockets or something.

I'm suprised that the Katushas could even hit civilians, they are not missiles as everybody seems to think.
:w:
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 08:57 PM
Cluster bombs are banned, and so is phosphorous. if you really wanted to save lives you would use guided rockets or something.
Banned by who? International law does not ban phosphorous or cluster bombs.
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 08:58 PM
Cluster bombs are banned, and so is phosphorous. if you really wanted to save lives you would use guided rockets or something.
What do you expect from Zionists? They break international law on a regular basis, and then cry "no fair" when Hezbollah does it once.
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 08:59 PM
What do you expect from Zionists? They break international law on a regular basis, and then cry "no fair" when Hezbollah does it once.
Show me the international law banning cluster bombs or phosphores... I'm waiting.
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 09:18 PM
http://hrw.org/reports/1996/Israel.htm
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 09:22 PM
http://www.ul.edu.lb/warleb/English3.htm
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Kidman
09-12-2006, 09:38 PM
Thanks QuranStudy for those sites...

Kidman
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`Abd al-Azeez
09-12-2006, 09:44 PM
:sl:

thats insane ... Israel should be tried for warcrimes

:w:
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 09:52 PM
If Israel uses Cluster Bombs against Hezbollah it is legal by international law.
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 09:53 PM
If Israel uses Cluster Bombs against Hezbollah it is legal by international law.
LOL, apparently it wasnt being used by Hezbollah :D
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 09:56 PM
Hezbollah does not seperate themselves from civilians. Cluster bombs are legal against other militaries, and I am sorry to say that what Human Rights Watch says does not dictate International Law. Find the ruling/law, not the opinion of someone.
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 09:59 PM
Hezbollah does not seperate themselves from civilians.
Didnt Qana Massacre 2 debenk that myth already?

Cluster bombs are legal against other militaries, and I am sorry to say that what Human Rights Watch says does not dictate International Law. Find the ruling/law, not the opinion of someone.
Anything that is anti-Zionist has no credibility, right?? Come on gimme a break.
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 10:03 PM
Anything that is anti-Zionist has no credibility, right?? Come on gimme a break.
Zionist or Anti-Zionist is irrelevant. They have no bearing on International Law. Only opinions.

Didnt Qana Massacre 2 debenk that myth already?
Hezbollah had hours to cover it up. There is video footage of katushas coming from Qana.
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QuranStudy
09-12-2006, 10:04 PM
Zionist or Anti-Zionist is irrelevant. They have no bearing on International Law. Only opinions.
So facts are now opinions to you??

Hezbollah had hours to cover it up. There is video footage of katushas coming from Qana.
Good explanation. Reminds me of conspiracy theorists :D
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
So facts are now opinions to you??
I do not think you comprehend what I am saying. Human Rights Watch does not dictate International Law. They can only share there opinion on it.
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`Abd al-Azeez
09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
:sl:

Israel completeley leveled Lebanon, thats collective punishment. Israel should also be tried for MANY more crimes, like segregation, amazing how Amerikkka abolished segregation in their own country but give a blind eye and deaf ear to the cries of the Palestinians:

[سورة البقرة 11 | Surah Al-Baqara , verse 11 (2:11) ]

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ

-----------

When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

May Allah guide us all, Ameen

:w:
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therebbe
09-12-2006, 10:15 PM
Why, we only Want to make peace!
I wasn't aware Arabs had treated Jews in Palestine with "peace" before Israel. There were many massacres of Jews.
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Keltoi
09-13-2006, 06:01 PM
Politics aside, the problem with clusterbombs is that the bomblets are still active on the ground when they don't explode. Cluster bombs are used because you can take out multiple targets at once, which makes them very effective against military targets. Phosphorous isn't illegal by international law either, since the majority of modern tanks use phosphorous in the shells, which is good for getting through armor. The only tanks that don't use the substance, or have the capability, are old WWII model tanks.
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Woodrow
09-13-2006, 06:11 PM
Sadly sometimes I don't even understand why there are even written rules of what weapons can or can not be used. History has always decided that what ever the winning side used, was justified.

Anyone who has every been in combat will tell you, there is no pleasent way to kill or get killed. War causes pain. I guress it really dosen't make too much difference as to what weapon is used.

Yep, phosphorous is nasty and cruel when used as a weapon. But, napalm isn't exactly pleasant.
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ManchesterFolk
09-13-2006, 06:31 PM
but in Israel they freaken have over 300 Palestinian CHILDREN in their prisons. Com'on now!
Ever heard of the Adel-Abad Prison in Iran?
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Fishman
09-13-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
Hezbollah does not seperate themselves from civilians.
:sl:
Hezbollah can't exactly aim its rockets away from civilians, they are rockets, not missiles. They fire these things from miles away and most of them probably just land in the desert.
:w:
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wilberhum
09-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Hezbollah can't exactly aim its rockets away from civilians, they are rockets, not missiles. They fire these things from miles away and most of them probably just land in the desert.
:w:
So just fire away, kill anyone you can. Was that what Hezbollah was willing to do? Just kill anyone? What a bunch of Good Guyes.
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Kidman
09-13-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So just fire away, kill anyone you can. Was that what Hezbollah was willing to do? Just kill anyone? What a bunch of Good Guyes.
No, they aimed at killing military personal only, and did a pretty good job at that if you look at the numbers. But what was there alternative??? Shoot into the sky hoping it will hit an Israeli plane, and if not then it will come back down on their own people. They had to shoot missles into Israel basically as a counteract because they coudln't do anything unless Israel came into the land and fought with a ground force.

While they are waiting for this to happen though, Israel is above Lebanon targeting the civilian homes, not caring for anyone... and barely killing any Hezbollah. Hmm.. the count was around 1/20 people they killed were Hezbollah... where 1/4 people they killed were children.. Yay for Israel and their intelligent military.

Kidman
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therebbe
09-13-2006, 08:09 PM
Hezbollah can't exactly aim its rockets away from civilians, they are rockets, not missiles. They fire these things from miles away and most of them probably just land in the desert.
That is just plain untrue and ill informed information. Using "spotters" and getting the distance away they are, Hezbollah can most definitly aim there rockets. How else are 99% landing in the 25% of the land that is civilian populated?
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wilberhum
09-13-2006, 08:12 PM
No, they aimed at killing military personal only
Does not aggree with
Hezbollah can't exactly aim its rockets away from civilians
But thats ok. Most accdept as a fact that those that they support are the good guyes in every respect.
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Kidman
09-13-2006, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
That is just plain untrue and ill informed information. Using "spotters" and getting the distance away they are, Hezbollah can most definitly aim there rockets. How else are 99% landing in the 25% of the land that is civilian populated?
shooting over 1,000 rockets a day, and not even 100 innocent people died in Israel... but a large number of Military did die, which concludes what? That they aimed at the military as best as they possibly can.

Kidman
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therebbe
09-13-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
shooting over 1,000 rockets a day, and not even 100 innocent people died in Israel... but a large number of Military did die, which concludes what? That they aimed at the military as best as they possibly can.

Kidman
The people in northern israel were all in shelters pretty much. Over 1,000,000 people left there homes. That is why the low death of civilians.
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Curaezipirid
09-13-2006, 09:00 PM
Alaikumassalam,

I want to express that the enemy of Jews during Holocaust, and the enemy of the Lebanese people in these facts it the same enemy, and is the assuming of being able to kill most efficiently for any accomplishment.

Real Jihad requires that we at least make an effort beyond pressing missle buttons. No excuses: killing is a bloody mucky affair, and nobody walks away with clean hands.

I reckon I'd rather have been in a building collapsing around me that to be a guy with a button. In Allah we will never escape the sin of imagining efficiency has any salvation.

Mu'asalam
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Kidman
09-14-2006, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
The people in northern israel were all in shelters pretty much. Over 1,000,000 people left there homes. That is why the low death of civilians.
And Hezbollah knew this, and that is why they felt more at ease when shooting into these areas, because they knew that the Government of Israel would have to pay for the damages... and that is the only way they could really fight at the time, is cause damage to the economy. They never intended on hurting any civilians... that is why they also fired their rockets at specific times, this gave the Israeli's more knowledge about when to go to the shelters and when it was safe to leave the shelters.

Also, Israel has an intellegent defence systems and the alarms go off all over the city when rockets are going to be headed that way, this way people know to go in the shelters.

And at least the million people that left their homes had homes to come back to... unlike the Lebanese civilians where so much more didn't have homes to come back to.

Kidman
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Zulkiflim
09-14-2006, 07:27 PM
Salaam,

you are forgetting when Israel sent those cluster bombs...it was during the last 24 hours before the UN resolution came into affect.

They wish to inflict as much damage as possible.
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Curaezipirid
09-14-2006, 07:37 PM
Alaikumassalam

Surely any persons whom attempt to argue in favour of any warring army who can consolidate victory by mechanised efficiency are truly not worth arguing with; since already in begining to argue that part, they are expressing purity in wanting to prevent their own salvation. Maybe there are a few left deluded whom the truth can be brought to bear upon, but if they take no heed of truth and argue their victory in supporting a war against a group like Hezbollah, then the benefit in arguing with them can only be in letting them continue within a delusion that they are winning. . . .?

mu'asalam
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Curaezipirid
09-19-2006, 08:52 AM
Alaikumassalam

There was a TV documentary on Aussie national public network broadcaster last night about this same issue.

They were interviewing some Australians whom had been trapped in Lebanon for the duration of the war.

The really awful part was that while Lebanese were describing that they had sympathy for Hezbollah now, when they had not been sympathetic before; there were persons in Israel speaking out still now in favour of the war. But most frighteningly the Israelis had a women whom had been a Peace activist in the past, and she was clearly extremely misinformed about the war and was openly speaking in support of it. There were a group of such women whom were in a Peace group of mothers opposed to Israeli National service. Yet the only strength in any argument was that Jews have already suffered so much. Realistically it is the case that Judaism as well as Islam asks us to sacrifice our own suffering and not to account it against others. So I am now worried about what kind of psychological torture is being forced upon the general Israeli population to cause them to have supported such a terrible war. True believeing Jews inside Israel are not those whom can hurt Islam. A Jew is in Prayer with any decision to the same extent as a Muslim must be. Yet these days how many non-believers are portraying themselves as Jews; and how many true Jews are being squeezed out of their own culture still today? This is a serious question that we must consider well.

Truly with the teaching of Islam entering Arc of Covenant; Jews will be enabled to comprehend Islam entirely within a Judaic teaching. But that their own support systems are being managed by nazis in the instance of those Jews living in Israel is that there may be many of them quite suddenly becoming terrified and not able yet to realise why. To their experience of Holocaust we must remember that such was a factual precondition in the process of recognition of the imperative to place all Qur'an into Arc of Convenant. That is an act now complete, but for one single part that is that enabling of Jannah hereafter, and that I am not able, with the witnesses, to cause, since Law is that use of Covenant can not benefit who uses it.

I hope that Israel will take proper stock of its losses. Truly mainstream popular opinion in Australia is now able to be revealed as ever against zionism by the ferocity of the final days of the Israeli attack. The losses of Israel will ultimately include the faith of all true believing Jews. Insha Allah soon.

Wasalam
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Ninth_Scribe
09-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
Actually it was 1800 Cluster Bombs, with boblets inside.

Should people begin to fight wars with barbie dolls? There seems to be no outrage at the nails put in Katusha Rockets to kill civilians.

Remember, International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.
Odd statement coming from a person that bashed me for saying War is War, but that's OK. I would actually prefer the war to be fought between the scholars... with words. Barbie dolls - that was hilarious! I almost fell off my seat over that come back.

Seriously, I am trying to get the white phosphorous taken off the list of legal weapons and I do think it's weird that the U.S. banned things like hollow point bullets, yet allow things like cluster bombs. What's the difference?

Ninth Scribe
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