Guantanamo still a disgrace to the U.S.

[sonz]

The U.S. military is currently in the process of preparing charges against alleged September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others whom the Bush administration calls “terror suspects” who had been transferred to the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo, Cuba.

Air Force Col. Moe Davis, the lead prosecutor says that many other detainees who had been held in Guantanamo jail would face trial before the 14 "high-value" prisoners who were moved from secret CIA prisons overseas to Guantanamo earlier this month.

Earlier this month, President Bush announced transferring fourteen “suspects”, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed, believed to be the No. 3 Al Qaeda leader before he was captured in Pakistan in 2003; Ramzi Binalshibh, an alleged would-be Sept. 11, 2001, hijacker; and Abu Zubaydah, who was believed to be a link between Osama bin Laden and many Al Qaeda cells before he was also captured in Pakistan, in March 2002, all previously held in secret CIA jails to the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.

So far none of the 14 top figures transferred to Guantanamo from CIA custody has been charged.

"The 14 new cases, we really are starting from scratch," Davis said.

"We've got attorneys that are looking at the cases but obviously those are complex cases and it's early in the process. We've got a long way to go on those."

Five years have passed since the brutal 9/11 attacks shook the United States, and still the U.S. detention facility established in Guantanamo Bay following the attacks to hold what the government calls “terrorism suspects’ remains a difficult challenge for President Bush, said a recent Monster and Critics editorial.

The war crimes trials at Guantanamo were once halted after the U.S. Supreme Court in June ruled that the tribunal system set up by President George W. Bush to try foreign terrorism suspects were illegal and that they cannot resume unless Congress passes a new legislation authorizing them.

The numerous scandals that had been uncovered about the disgraceful treatment of detainees at the U.S. prison camp have put President Bush in the difficult position of trying to portray himself as the world's foremost protector of human rights while keeping people locked up for years without trial or charges raised against them.

Bush had on many occasions claimed that he wants to shut down Guantanamo jail but will not free detainees whom he describes as posing security threat to the U.S. and the entire world, a position that has not satisfied human-rights organizations and foreign leaders who have long been calling for the closure of the detention facility that has disgraced the United States.

But Bush ignored their calls as he did calls by the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and European leaders who had been pressuring the White house close the prison camp, especially after the numerous hunger strikes that took place at the jail.

Many prisoners who participated in those hunger strikes were being force-fed through a feeding tube.

Since it was established in the wake of September 11 attacks, Guantanamo has become the focus of accusations by human-rights organisations for the repetitive scandals that had been uncovered regarding the harsh treatment detainees receive at the hands of the U.S. prison guards and the inhuman conditions under which the prisoners are kept.

"What's going on in Guantanamo Bay and other places is a disgrace to the U.S. I wouldn't say it's the cause of terrorism, but it has given impetus and excuses to potential terrorists to lash out at our country and justify their despicable acts," Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, had once been quoted as saying.

President Bush ordered the release of several hundred prisoners, and is now trying to come up with a solution for dealing with those 'enemy combatants' who are still held and have not been charged with crimes, after the Supreme Court ruled he can't set up tribunals to try those suspects.

He is now pressing the Congress to quickly pass administration-drafted law authorizing the use of military commissions for trials of “terror suspects”.

"These are dangerous men with unparalleled knowledge about terrorist networks and their plans for new attacks," Bush claimed, defending the CIA program he authorized after the Sept. 11 attacks. "The security of our nation and the lives of our citizens depend on our ability to learn what these terrorists know."

As made manifest in his speech, his third in a recent series about the so-called “war on terror”, Bush is trying to shore up his administration's credentials on national security as congressional elections draw near amidst increasing frustration amongst Americans, who are growing weary of his anti-war campaign, that has so far brought more terror to the world.

[ManchesterFolk]

How is it a disgrace?

[Muezzin]

How is it a disgrace?

Torture, indefinitely holding people without charge, really bad taste in fences... It goes on.

And, before anyone says, 'Al Qaeda does this too!', Al Qaeda is not a major world Government, and their crimes should not justify the treatment of Guantanamo detainees. I expect justice from Governments, not holding people without charge for ages.

[ManchesterFolk]

Torture, indefinitely holding people without charge, really bad taste in fences... It goes on.

My lawyer side will probably come out here... lol. Excuse me, but what proof other than prisoner testimony (people who hate the usa) is there?

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[Muezzin]

My lawyer side will probably come out here... lol. Excuse me, but what proof other than prisoner testimony (people who hate the usa) is there?

Ah, a fellow lawyer. Well, what proof is there that these suspects have actually committed said crimes in the first place? If you're extending the 'innocent until proven guilty' argument to the US Government, I'd think private citizens deserve the same right.

[Ghazi]

Ah, a fellow lawyer. Well, what proof is there that these suspects have actually committed said crimes in the first place? If you're extending the 'innocent until proven guilty' argument to the US Government, I'd think private citizens deserve the same right.

:sl:

Well Put! Remind me to hire you if I ever get into a spot of trouble but your gonna have to come up with some impressive loap-holes :D

[sonz]

My lawyer side will probably come out here... lol. Excuse me, but what proof other than prisoner testimony (people who hate the usa) is there?

so those innocenent prisoners who are being tortured daily are people who "hate" usa. is falconer someone who "hates" the usa?


Guantánamo Bay is a "shocking affront to the principles of democracy" and a violation of the rule of law, the lord chancellor, Lord Falconer, said today.

The criticism from the highest-ranking official in the British legal system represents the most direct government attack yet on the US military detention camp.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/forei...871630,00.html


if the abu ghraib images were not released, i would really bet u would be the first one to deny the atrocities in abu ghraib.

[lavikor201]

so those innocenent prisoners who are being tortured daily are people who "hate" usa. is falconer someone who "hates" the usa?

Can you please show me the proof of torture chambers. I never heard about them... I know they are there without trial though.

[wilberhum]

Torture, indefinitely holding people without charge, really bad taste in fences... It goes on.

And, before anyone says, 'Al Qaeda does this too!', Al Qaeda is not a major world Government, and their crimes should not justify the treatment of Guantanamo detainees. I expect justice from Governments, not holding people without charge for ages.

I offer no defense for Guantanamo. It is a stain on the US. But you seam to make out that Al Qaeda is a bunch of good guyes. Do you praise Al Qaeda or just condemn the US?

[Ghazi]

Can you please show me the proof of torture chambers. I never heard about them... I know they are there without trial though.

:sl:

the Tipton-Three Former Inmates, and I know your thinking they "HATE" the usa but they were westernised at the time of their capture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP6BTMgZ3wM

[sonz]

Can you please show me the proof of torture chambers. I never heard about them... I know they are there without trial though.

Many detainees at Guantánamo Bay were regularly subjected to harsh and coercive treatment, several people who worked in the prison said in recent interviews, despite longstanding assertions by military officials that such treatment had not occurred except in some isolated cases.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/po...er=rssuserland

Interrogators at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, forced a stubborn detainee to wear women's underwear on his head, confronted him with snarling military working dogs and attached a leash to his chains, according to a newly released military investigation that shows the tactics were employed there months before military police used them on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071302380.html

more documents
web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity. http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx...fx2110388.html

[wilberhum]

Can you please show me the proof of torture chambers. I never heard about them... I know they are there without trial though.

Torture chambers, I doubt it. Sevier abuse, I’m sure. General abuse, absolutely.
If you think the US is above all that, all you need to do is look at Abu Graue (Spelling error) it is all a disgrace on the US.

[Muezzin]

I offer no defense for Guantanamo. It is a stain on the US. But you seam to make out that Al Qaeda is a bunch of good guyes.

You misunderstand. I condemn Al Qaeda too. They give Islam a bad name, what with encouraging and condoning the slaughter of civilians. I'm saying, it's even worse when a democratic Government encourages injustice - in this case by holding people indefinitely without charge.

Do you praise Al Qaeda or just condemn the US?

I condemn the terrorist actions of Al Qaeda and the unjust actions of the US in Guantanamo.

[wilberhum]

Muezzin
Thank you for making that clear.
Wilber

[Keltoi]

Besides accusations from former prisoners there has been no evidence of "torture" at Gitmo. If any of you have been watching the news lately, you might have heard that an Al-Qaeda terrorist, whose name escapes me, was "tortured" by putting him in a cold room and playing the Red Hot Chili Peppers till he broke. What torture. Imagine, if the full extent of the CIA interrogation of a known Al-Qaeda leader was the RHCP "torture", why would they "torture" at Gitmo? It is a sensationalist myth. This is why Abu Ghraib hurt the U.S. so much, because accusations like this seem to have validity, evidence or no evidence.

[Muezzin]

See Keltoi's above post? That is how we should discuss and disagree on this forum, in a calm, collected manner. It's much better than lobbing verbal grenades at each other. :)