PDA

View Full Version : Who is the Most Terrorist? Bin Laden or Bush?



kormath
09-16-2006, 05:09 PM
:sl:

According to Jason Bennetto, Crime Correspondent of "Independent" ,Omar Qyyam, a British man accused of plotting to blow up a major UK target has told a jury, when asked in court about his reaction to the attacks on the World Trade Centre : [S]"I was happy. America was, and still is, the greatest enemy of Islam. They put up puppet regimes in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt.[/S]

[S]"I was happy that America had been hit because of what it represented against the Muslims, but obviously 3,000 people died, so there were mixed feelings." [/S][Independent Online Edition Crime.htm]

Yes, he justifies his attitude that America is the greatest enemy of Islam. So he believes that the attack was a suitable punishment for that country. Now we call him a terrorist!

Besides, [S]"Osama bin Laden, head of the al-Qaeda organization, declared two months after the 9/11 attacks: "I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammed" [/S]("Islamic Imperialism" by Efraim Karsh, page 1.)So, we call him most terrorist!


At now let us turn our attention to the attitude of president Bush against Muslim countries, we can see him justifies his cruel deeds against them as an order of God. That is he claims that God has ordered him to war against them. Thus he killed thousands of innocent people by this justification. In other words, Bush's war against the Arab countries was a holy war, Jihad! So, we call him a peace making man!

So, we are in a complicated situation! Who is most terrorist? Omar Qayyam and Osama bin Laden or Bush? All of them have their justifications to their doings.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Joe98
09-16-2006, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by kader
Bush against Muslim countries, we can see him justifies his cruel deeds against them as an order of God. That is he claims that God has ordered him to war against them.

Please provide evidence.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
09-16-2006, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Please provide evidence.
Here you go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml
Reply

Hijrah
09-16-2006, 10:52 PM
How does indiscriminate killing get people to accept Islam? I swear Bin Laden is not only a terrorist, he is an idiot.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-16-2006, 10:56 PM
I honestly won't say anything. Humans are known for being liars. I trust no one but Allah(swt). If he really is how everyone says him to be then he will be accountable.
Allahu Alam
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
09-16-2006, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by Hijrah
How does indiscriminate killing get people to accept Islam? I swear Bin Laden is not only a terrorist, he is an idiot.
There's a little more to it all than that. I watched a pretty interesting documentary on him the other day. Don't know how much fact there was to it, but Osama bin Laden was so much like me when we were growing up. I used to think society would come falling down around me too. I was so sure it would, I loaded my head with all kinds of different recipes... everything from how to make shampoo to how to make medicines. I figured it was safer to be prepared and I organized the towns people into teams, based on their various talents and skills. I'd go off into the woods (runaway) to see if I could survive on my own... in both natural and urban settings. I got pretty good at it too. Apart from the odd wipe out here and there.

Bin Laden seems to have hit a point of no turning back though. I think that point was when the King favored alliance with the U.S. military over him. He didn't take that very well, or at least that's how the events that followed seem to strike me. Gotta watch out for those silent types.

Anyway, the deal with the killing of innocents works both ways. President Bush harrassed information from the CIA to enable his agenda, which would require a forgiveness for the killing of innocents, and bin Laden harrassed a scholar who apparently had the authority to make a religious decree, forgiving the killing of innocents in the name of holy war. Don't know who this dude was. No one mentioned a name, but he's the one who sanctioned the killing of innocent Muslims, not bin Laden. Bin Laden and Bush both asked for these permissions but the blame will rest on the ones who handed that to them on a silver platter.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-16-2006, 11:36 PM
Wow, nicely said sis lol.
Reply

Ghazi
09-17-2006, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Hijrah
How does indiscriminate killing get people to accept Islam? I swear Bin Laden is not only a terrorist, he is an idiot.
:sl:

Funny but you don't even know the guy yet you backbite him, ask your self what do you know of him other then what the media is saying?
Reply

kormath
09-17-2006, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Please provide evidence.
Pls, read this lines:

"President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals. "

Visit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml

For details.
Reply

Keltoi
09-17-2006, 01:33 AM
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, beside another in a long list of threads that attempt (pitifully), to cast doubt on whether Bin Laden is a terrorist and to tell everyone Bush hates Islam.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-17-2006, 03:01 AM
I dont like these topics...cuz it goes nowhere cept all over the place...!
Reply

Hijrah
09-17-2006, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Ghazi
:sl:

Funny but you don't even know the guy yet you backbite him, ask your self what do you know of him other then what the media is saying?
:sl:

May Allah forgive me if I am backbiting but....

The first stance(2): (The Advice of Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Baaz (D.1420H) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin al-Khaarijee and A warning and Advice to all those who traverse his path)


Said Imaam Aboo Bakr al-Aajurree (d.360H) – rahimahullaah, “It is not permissible for the one who sees the uprising of a khaarijee who has revolted against the leader, whether he is just or oppressive - so this person has revolted and gathered a group behind him, has pulled out his sword and has made lawful the killing of Muslims - it is not fitting for the one who sees this, that he becomes deceived by this person’s recitation of the Qur‘aan, the length of his standing in Prayer, nor his constant fasting, nor his good and excellent words in knowledge when it is clear to him that this person’s way and methodology is that of the Khawaarij.”

Said Shaykhul-Islaam ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn ’Abdullaah Ibn Baaz (d.1420H) – rahimahullaah, “So my advice to al-Mas’aree, al-Faqeeh and Ibn Laadin and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allaah and to beware of His revenge and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allaah from whatever has preceded from them.”

A concise warning from Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin. The extremist takfeeree who rejoices in making takfeer mu’ayyin of the Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah and the Muslim rulers all in the name of Islaam. Ibn Laadin's disgusting, vermin-laden doctrine of mass-takfeer was not excluded from even the eminent Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah).

The Second stance(3): (Terrorism- Islam's Veiwpoint)


Islamic Fiqh Council, Saudi Arabia.(4) Source: Muslim World League Journal, Jumad al-Ula 1423/July 2002 CE

During its sixteenth session, which was held between 21-27 Shawwal 1422 H (5-10 January 2002), the Islamic Fiqh Council laid emphasis on the fact that extremism, violence, and terrorism have no connection whatsoever with Islam. In fact, they are manifestations of perilous acts with dangerous consequences, and an aggression and iniquity against the individual.

Whosoever carefully studies the two sources of the Shari'ah (Islamic
law), namely the Book of Allah [the Qur'an] and the Sunnah (Traditions) of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him), would discoverthat they are devoid of any import of extremism, acts of violence or terrorism, which imply carrying out aggression against others without a just cause.

Therefore, in order to draw an Islamic definition of terrorism that unites the vision and attitudes of all Muslims; and in order to clearly state this fact and highlight the danger of associating Islam with extremism and terrorism, the Islamic Fiqh Council presents the following definition of terrorism and Islam's attitude toward it both to the Muslims and the world at large.

Definition of Terrorism

Terrorism is an outrageous attack carried out either by individuals, groups or states against the human being (his religion, life, intellect, property and honour). It includes all forms of intimidation, harm, threatening, killing without just cause and everything connected with any form of armed robbery, hence making pathways insecure, banditry, every act of violence or threatening intended to fulfil a criminal scheme individually or collectively, so as to terrify and horrify people by hurting them or by exposing their lives, liberty, security or conditions to danger; it can also take the form of inflicting damage on the environment or on a public or a private utility or exposing a national or natural resource to danger.

All these are manifestations of the mischief in the land, Allah has prohibited Muslims from committing. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And seek not occasions for mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief" (28:77)

Hence Allah did not only enact deterrent punishment against terrorism, aggression and corruption, but considers these acts tantamount to waging war against Allah and His Messenger. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter" (5:33)

Obviously, in view of the enormity of such acts of aggression, which are viewed by the Shari'ah (Islamic law) as an act of war against the laws and the creatures of God, there is no stricter punishment anywhere in the manmade laws. Moreover, according to the Islamic Fiqh Council, there are various forms of terrorism, which include state terrorism, the most conspicuous illustration and the most heinous of which is practiced in Palestine today by the Israelis, and by the Serbs in Bosnia- Herzegovina and Kosovo.

According to the Islamic Fiqh Council, state terrorism is the most menacing to security and peace in the world, and, therefore, standing up against it is tantamount to self defense and striving in the cause of Allah.

Islam's Remedy for Extremism & Terrorism

In combating terrorism and protecting society against its evil consequences, Islam is a trail-blazer. Through clear-cut limitations that must not be trespassed, Islam urges the protection of human life, honour, property, religion and intellect. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"If any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong themselves as well as others" (2:229)

Accordingly, in furtherance of this honour bestowed upon mankind, Islam prohibit[s] man's injustice to his fellow man, and condemn[s] those who cause harm to people, not only in the Muslim world, but anywhere in the
world. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Say: The things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are; shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason." And: "When he turns his back, his aim everywhere is to spread mischief through the earth and destroy crops and progeny. But Allah loves not mischief. When it is said to him 'Fear Allah,' he is led by arrogance to (more) crime. Enough for him is Hell - an evil bed indeed to lie on" (7:33 & 2:205-206)

Furthermore, Islam ordered its adherents to keep away from anything that may cause turmoil among the people, and warned at the same time, against its evil consequences. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And fear tumult or oppression, which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong: And know that Allah is strict in punishment." (8:25)

In Islam, both the individual and the community are exhorted not only to tow the line of moderation, but likewise, to root out extremism and religious intolerance which are sure to destroy the mankind. The Prophet (peace be on him) said in a report by Imams Ahmad and Al-Nissaie:

"Beware of excesses in matters of religion. For, as a matter of fact, those before you were destroyed by religious immoderation"

Islam also addressed the issue of evil tendencies that are apt to lead to intimidation, terrifying, horrifying and killing without any just cause. The Prophet (peace be on him) said:

"A Muslim must not terrify a fellow Muslim"

And:

"Whoever points an iron rod towards his brother, the angels shall go on cursing him until he stopped, even if he (the victim) happens to be his full brother (from the sides of his father and mother)" (Sahih Muslim)

With regard to the Dhimmis (Non-Muslims living under Muslim protection), Islam ordered that they must be treated justly. It gave them rights and imposed duties on them. It gave them security in the Muslim world, and imposed blood-money and expiation for an act of killing committed against anyone among them. Allah says:

"If he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, blood-money shall be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed" (4:92)

Furthermore, in conformity with the saying of the Prophet (peace be on him), Islam prohibits the slaying of a Dhimmi living in the Muslim world.

"Whoever kills a person under the contract of protection shall never smell the scent of Paradise" (Ibn Majah)

Moreover, Islam does not forbid its followers from being charitable towards those who do not fight them or expel them from their homes. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

And:

"And let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do" (5:8)

In view of the foregoing, therefore, the Islamic Fiqh Council would like to make it public that the felony of taking away one life without a just cause is tantamount to killing all people, whatever the faith of the murdered or the murderer; and that punishments and retributions are solely the prerogative of the ruler, not of individuals or groups.

Jihad is not Terrorism

In Islam, Jihad is ordained to uphold right, repel injustice and establish justice, peace, security and clemency, with which the Prophet (peace be on him) was sent to take mankind out of darkness into light. More specifically, Jihad has been ordained to eliminate all forms of terrorism, and to defend the homeland against occupation, plunder and colonialism.

Jihad is waged against those who support others in driving out people out of their homes, as well as against those who are in breach of their covenants. Jihad is meant to avoid tempting away Muslims from their faith or restricting their freedom to conduct peaceful propagation of their religion. Allah said:

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are just"

And:

"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support others in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them in these circumstances that do wrong." (60:8-9)

Islam has crystal clear rules and provisions that forbid the killing of non-combatants, innocent persons, such as the elderly, women and children; pursuit of fleeing persons, slaying persons who have surrendered, injuring prisoners, or mutilating the bodies of the dead, or destroying structures and buildings that have no connection with combat.

Thus it is illogical to equate violence committed by usurpers and tyrants who violate human dignity, defile sanctuaries and plunder wealth, with the right of legitimate self-defense, exercised by the oppressed in asserting their legitimate right of self-determination. In view of the above, the Islamic Fiqh Council would like to call the attention of all nations, peoples and organizations of the world to the necessity of drawing a distinction between legitimate Jihad against aggression or oppression designed to establish truth and justice, and the act of violence which aims at occupation of land, encroaching on national sovereignty and terrifying civilian populations and turning them into refugees.

The third stance (5): (The section tackles many misconceptions and clarifies the Salafi stance against Terrorism)


Translated by Hassan As-Somali
17/06/06

O Muslims! Fear Allah And Don’t Sympathise With Zarqaawee
Excerpts taken from an article from Ash-Sharaq Al-Awsat
By Abdul Muhsin Al-‘Ubaykaan (A senior scholar from Saudi Arabia)

There is no doubt that every Muslim, who is eagerly concerned about their religion and enthusiastic to (protect) the reputation of their nation, is delighted to hear about the decline of a deviant ideology that is attributed to Islam, when in reality it does nothing but smear (the religions) true image.

A deviant Kharajite ideology that has declared the blood of the Muslims and innocent non-Muslims to be lawful game; it has relished in pronouncing Muslims to be infidels, and it has vigorously endeavoured to destroy and bomb. (An ideology) that has stained the image of Islam and the Muslims, and it has caused many evils which cannot be enumerated and cannot be calculated by any one person.

This Kharijite ideology has produced many ills. From them: this malicious onslaught against the Muslims in general- emanating from many different angles, assaults upon the methods of teaching practised in the Muslim lands, (it has been utilized) as a blockade to the Book and the Sunnah, occupation of Muslim lands, and the captivation of innocent people due to mere speculation. All of this has resulted from this chaos and confusion, and from the war between (the lunatics) of Al-Qaa’idah and certain countries.

Yes, the fact that this ideology has begun to vanish, its symbolic figures are being humiliated and its leaders are falling brings joy to the heart. But sadly we see some of the Muslims continuing to show sympathy to Az-Zarqaawee or to whoever will replace him. Az-Zarqaawee who adopted the wretched ideology of Al-Qaa’idah, this is no more than the belief of the Kharijite, Takfeeris; and it has not brought any benefit to the Muslims whatsoever.

These sympathisers feign blindness to these barbaric, criminal acts, perpetrated by Az-Zaqaawee and his organisation inside and outside of Iraq, that oppose (the laws) of the religion and that cannot be fathomed by sound intellectual reasoning. It is visible to everyone with two eyes to see that Zarqaawee’s actions are not only traceable to Iraq; rather they have spread to other places. This man has (monstrous) ambitions in many arenas; he has explicitly voiced his aspirations, in both speech and action. An example of this is the bombings that occurred in Jordan and massacred those inviolable souls.

Islam is totally innocent of these ideologies and misguided acts. Even Jihad in the path of Allah has stipulations and guidelines that have to be met.

Using the name of Islam and (a twisted) understanding of Jihad to spread anarchy in the ranks of the Muslims, declare their blood and wealth to be lawful, cause disunity and division, weaken their position, empower their opponents against them and blemish the appearance of Islam in the most awful manner- acts such as slaughtering a human by slicing their jugular vein and then showing this to millions through the media outlets- has led to some people fleeing from Islam and detesting the Muslims, because the activities of these weirdoes that have nothing to do with Islam or the Muslims.

The Fourth Stance: (The True Islaamic Stance towards the Sept. 11th
US Attacks)


Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee is one of the Scholars of al-Madeenah of whom Imaam Ibn Baaz once called a person of ‘uprightness, knowledge and sound 'aqeedah.’ The Shaykh speaks on the ruling in Islaam in regards to the happenings on Sept. 11th. He states ‘This is not permissible in the deen of Islaam’ and ‘This is something that wasn’t done by the Salaf’. He goes on to say ‘This is a form of oppression on Muslims and non-Muslims’.

The Shaykh requested that the Muslims in N. America make clear that these actions are not from Islaam by saying, ‘Muslims in America should make clear the Islaamic position on these actions and incur the people not to blindly follow the opinions of the Media’.

Q&A follows the admonition including questions about the Talibaan. From the answers the Shaykh mentioned ‘some people wish to do good for Islaam but because they have errors in ‘Aqeedah they do more harm’. The Shaykh mentioned that this issue is not clear; some of the names of the bombers mentioned by the media are names of dead people. The Shaykh also mentioned that if A Muslim did this, he is not a Kaafir but he is a sinner and one with deficiency in Eemaan.

Regarding those who are overjoyed with the Sept. 11th attack, the Shaykh said: ‘did you check with the Scholars before you rejoiced at these attacks, Fear Allaah and don’t follow your emotions, do not give a bad impression of Islaam’. The Shaykh mentioned ‘Do not sit with those people.’


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Footnotes:
1: Taken from various Sources
(2): http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj.../ibnlaadin.htm

(3): http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=60
(4): Origianal Source: Muslim World League Journal, Jumad al-Ula 1423/July 2002 CE
(5): http://www.troid.org/spotlights/terrorism.htm
(6): http://www.troid.org/audio/fataawaa/.../usattacks.htm
Reply

akulion
09-17-2006, 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by steve

thanks for that - adds to my belief that this bush guy is a lunatic
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
09-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Wow, nicely said sis lol.
Thanks. I'm still tracking all this information so I can offer a fair accounting of all these deeds. It would go a lot quicker if there weren't so many ancient issues tied up in all these recent ones - but the generations have become like that... extremely confused. I never know what century I'm in half the time! :heated:

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-18-2006, 07:57 PM
LOL i agree!! my mind is gunna blow soon!
so i try to stay away from this stuff n worry bout the more important issues..
stuff that will count for me in the end...my deeds lol=\
Reply

Lina
09-18-2006, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
There's a little more to it all than that. I watched a pretty interesting documentary on him the other day. Ninth Scribe

:sl:

By Christiane Amanpour?

It was pretty interesting eventhough it was mostly based on speculations.
The Jihad Encyclopedia was pretty interesting though.

:w:
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
09-23-2006, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Lina
:sl:

By Christiane Amanpour?

It was pretty interesting eventhough it was mostly based on speculations.
The Jihad Encyclopedia was pretty interesting though.

:w:
I think it was called "The Footsteps of Bin Laden" and it really blew my mind. For a moment there, I thought they were doing a documentary on me! That's how tight all the events were up until the military operations in Afghanistan. Except for the difference in household incomes. My family comes from a more humble background.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-03-2013, 06:57 PM
  2. Replies: 103
    Last Post: 08-09-2007, 08:55 AM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 12:59 AM
  4. Replies: 47
    Last Post: 06-18-2007, 09:24 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!