Hijab Ban Sharps Muslim Isolation

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

This isn't anything new but its still going on.

Hijab Ban Sharps Muslim Isolation

IslamOnline.net & News Agencies


The French hijab ban has deepened the isolation of the French Muslims.

PARIS — A French law banning hijab in state schools has deepened the Muslim isolation from the broader community, experts said Saturday, September 16.

"Some (Muslims) are enrolled in informal parallel structures. That makes them even more isolated from the broader community," said Samy Debah, spokesman for the anti-Islamophobia group CCIF, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).

France has triggered a controversy in 2004 by adopting a bill banning hijab and religious insignia in state schools.

French Muslims — a sizeable six-million minority — along with practicing Jews, Sikhs and international human rights groups strongly condemned the law, saying it violated the freedom of religion right in secular France.

In the same year, some 30 girls under the age of 16 dropped out of the French school system altogether, said Nora Rami spokeswoman for a committee opposing the law.

She said the number, though is tiny compared to the hundreds o thousands of Muslims in French schools, has a major significance.

It illustrates a "break between some young Muslim women and a country where "they no longer feel at home," she said.

Other young Muslim women have also either left to study abroad, including in Belgium, or have signed up for distance learning courses, Rami added.

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, not a religious symbol displaying one’s affiliations.

Problems Deepened

Many French Muslims believe the French law would lead to a boom in private Muslim education in the coming decade.

"This hasn't solved the problem, it has just moved it elsewhere," said Makhlouf Mameche, deputy head of the private Lycee Averroes in the northern city of Lille, one of France's two sole Muslim high schools.

The French education ministry says the law has been largely accepted in the country, citing only four cases since the start of the school year this month, involving Sikh pupils who refused to remove their turbans.

The government says the figure -- a far cry from the 639 recorded in 2004, when 47 youths were expelled for refusing to comply with the ban -- is proof the measure is working.

But Hubert Tison, a teachers' representative, disagrees.

"It's true the law reduced tensions, but it has not solved the deeper problems" he told L'Express magazine recently.

Over the past decade, more and more French Muslims have increasingly adopted hijab, especially in run-down suburbs with large Arab and black populations.

Many, however, complain that they face hostile looks from strangers who associate their hijab with terrorism and extremism.

[guyabano]

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, not a religious symbol displaying one’s affiliations.

.. and exactly this is the point:

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, so, it is religious, no?
France live under rules made by a democracy, and democracy is nothing else, than laws voted by its citizens !
So it means, the majority of of its citizens voted against the wearing of Hijab. But, you should also mention all other details: France also forbid Jews to wear Kippa, same as for Christians to wear a Cross Symbol.
So, it is a fair and balanced law, good for all cultures and religions. No favoritism.

I find this a good idea, and should be also applied in all other countries !

[Panatella]

.. and exactly this is the point:

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, so, it is religious, no?
France live under rules made by a democracy, and democracy is nothing else, than laws voted by its citizens !
So it means, the majority of of its citizens voted against the wearing of Hijab. But, you should also mention all other details: France also forbid Jews to wear Kippa, same as for Christians to wear a Cross Symbol.
So, it is a fair and balanced law, good for all cultures and religions. No favoritism.

I find this a good idea, and should be also applied in all other countries !

Fair is fair. Whining by muslims, jews, or christians should not be tolerated. No hijab? Too bad. Stop your whining.

[Malaikah]

:sl:

No, its not fair, the impact on Muslim women is much greater, becuase hijab is not a symbol.

How easy is it to conceal a cross on a neck lace? just slip it under your shirt! And is it even compulsory to wear a cross??

Fair enough, its harsher on jewish men as well becuase i think (though not sure), that the skull cap is also compulsory and cannot be hidden (although i think all they need is something on their head so even a baseball cap can suffice although im not sure about this).

You two are so blinded by your concepts of "fairness" that you cant see oppression when its hits you in the face!

Whining by muslims, jews, or christians should not be tolerated.

I thought France was a democracy? What happened to FREEDOM OF SPEECH!?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[lolwatever]

I thought France was a democracy? What happened to FREEDOM OF SPEECH!?

exactly! :offended: looks like ur only free2do what you want if what you wanna do is what they like.

[lolwatever]

oh n btw.. aren't they ashamed of themselves that they dont have any consistency with their behaviour.

20 years ago being a homo was a disgrace, now its a symbol of pride, yesterday hijab is tolerated, today its not... where's the consistency??

with Islam, people know what we stand for, regardless of time!

[Abu Zakariya]

Fair is fair. Whining by muslims, jews, or christians should not be tolerated. No hijab? Too bad. Stop your whining.

I guess you and guyabano feel the same way about the law on hijab in Iran.

[Trumble]

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, so, it is religious, no?
France live under rules made by a democracy, and democracy is nothing else, than laws voted by its citizens !
So it means, the majority of of its citizens voted against the wearing of Hijab. But, you should also mention all other details: France also forbid Jews to wear Kippa, same as for Christians to wear a Cross Symbol.
So, it is a fair and balanced law, good for all cultures and religions. No favoritism.

The fact it may balanced doesn't make it fair, or a good law. Neither does your argument on democracy - what is happening here is what John Stuart Mill called the "tyranny of the majority".

I can't really do better than quote the man himself;

Society can and does execute its own mandates; and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough; there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling, against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development and, if possible, prevent the formation of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. There is a limit to the legitimate interference of collective opinion with individual independence; and to find that limit, and maintain it against encroachment, is as indispensable to a good condition of human affairs as protection against political despotism. From the introduction to On Liberty

The law is an attack on personal freedom. Such an attack is only justified when what is being attacked is something that if not restrained will cause demonstrable and genuine harm to the rest of society that outweighs the restriction on personal liberty involved. I have seen no evidence whatsoever suggesting wearing the hijab, or indeed that anything else someone chooses to wear, for religious or any other reason, provides such justification. "Tyranny of the majority" is not a problem - IF you happen to be part of that majority. Sooner or later, you won't be. Simply put, why should the "majority of citizens", who have no desire to wear a hijab, have a say in whether those who do want to should be allowed to?

[guyabano]

Ok, let me see the problem from a different point of view:

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right? Well, where is this so-called freedom?
Well, I just repeat my words: It is a good law, and it should become world wide ! No favoritism !
Look, even USA made a step in this direction (at least in different parts): They ban already every sign of national pride (no matter what country) out of the schools.

[Abu Zakariya]

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right? Well, where is this so-called freedom?

First of all, I already brought this up but you didn't answer.

Secondly, not every Muslim country has this law.

Thirdly, if you aren't a hypocrite, you shouldn't have a problem with Muslim countries having this law. If you feel there's no freedom in forcing women to cover themselves up, how can you on the other hand feel it doesn't violate anyone's freedom to force women to take of clothing they've chosen to wear?

[Snowflake]

.. and exactly this is the point:

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, so, it is religious, no?
!

Islam is a way of life not merely a religion to be practiced at one's convenience. If christian only see the inside of a church when they get married in one or on the odd Sunday then that's their wish. But for muslims Islam is the code by which we live on a daily basis. By banning Hijab France has not taken away religious insignia, it has taken away our way of life.

[lolwatever]

Ok, let me see the problem from a different point of view:

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right? Well, where is this so-called freedom?
Well, I just repeat my words: It is a good law, and it should become world wide ! No favoritism !
Look, even USA made a step in this direction (at least in different parts): They ban already every sign of national pride (no matter what country) out of the schools.

^ actually that's not the point we're trying to make, we're trying to show the contradiction within your own law... you say u got freedom, well where is it?

Your laws are nto consistant, that's the problem, in any Islamic country you go to, the laws are the same, and they just don't change. In your case, one day you could be looked at as a twit for doing something, and the next day that same action is a symbol of pride.

And the next question is, why is it a good law? so you can perve at more girls n pump up the rape stats? :offended: :uuh:

[Trumble]

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right?

Wrong, or at least its wrong in the several I have visited. It is wise for women to dress "modestly" if only to avoid possible offence and arrest (the exact same reason 'naturists' don't tend stroll through New York or Paris with no clothes on! - all things are relative), but there is no requirement for foreigners to wear the hijab.

Well, where is this so-called freedom?

I not approve of muslim women anywhere being 'forced' to wear the hijab by "the tyranny of the majority" any more than I approve of them being prevented from wearing it. However, just because a wrong may happen in one place is no reason to justify replicating that wrong elsewhere, particularly under the guise that it is somehow "fair" or "democratic".

[------]

And the next question is, why is it a good law? so you can perve at more girls n pump up the rape stats?

That was strongly put.

[Muezzin]

I not approve of muslim women anywhere being 'forced' to wear the hijab by "the tyranny of the majority" any more than I approve of them being prevented from wearing it. However, just because a wrong may happen in one place is no reason to justify replicating that wrong elsewhere, particularly under the guise that it is somehow "fair" or "democratic".

Exactly. It's just as wrong to force women not to wear it as it is to force them to wear it.

Fair is fair. Whining by muslims, jews, or christians should not be tolerated. No hijab? Too bad. Stop your whining.

Very democratic. Not.

[lolwatever]

^ actually i think in Islamic state women are to wear Hijab... just like in west women cant be 100% naked... (even tho its hard to say that some of them are dressed lol), in Islamic state women are to maintain a level of decency which includes wearing Hijab.

just liek the way men are obliged to keep a beard (the muslim ones of them).

[Trumble]

^ actually i think in Islamic state women are to wear Hijab... just like in west women cant be 100% naked... (even tho its hard to say that some of them are dressed lol), in Islamic state women are to maintain a level of decency which includes wearing Hijab.

There's a big difference between "Islamic state" (how many of those are there?) and "muslim country". Even then, there would be a big difference between whether just muslim women were required to were the hijab (or, I suppose, burkha if you take it to the extreme), whether all female citizens were, or whether all women including foreigners were.

[lolwatever]

^ b4 we talk about specifics of hijab... first lets worry about the fact that non exist :uhwhat

bak2topic.. issue isnt whether the rule says ur allowed 2 wear hijab or not.. its abotu the crazy amount of inconsistency and contradiction present within the laws!

[Malaikah]

Trumble,

Of course all women should wear it in an Islamic state, when you consider that the purpose is to prevent corruption in the society by preventing relationships outside of marriage, rape etc and helping people lower their gaze, as if it matters to men who are trying to lower thier gaze if the half naked women are muslim or not!

^ b4 we talk about specifics of hijab... first lets worry about the fact that non exist

you mean none right? as in no islamic states? lol

[guyabano]

so you can perve at more girls n pump up the rape stats?

I consider that as an insult and I will go out now an burn flags ! Anyway, common in some countries as soon as they feel offended or get the feeling to be insulted, no?

When I go to school, I want to focus on my studies, and not on religious symbols, neither sit beside a person who is covered by a tent, neither hiding behind a scarf, nor wearing a big wooden cross, or whatever.
That's why it is called a SCHOOL. Once I go to a church, or Mosque or Synagogue, then I can show off my religious beliefs.
You speak about the freedom to wear the hijab, well , did you never ask yourself the question, how many people feel offended by that? Believe me, there are more than would admit it !

Look f. example a shop: When the owner of the shop doesn't like you, he can refuse you to enter. Even he will not provide you only one single reason. the fact, he dislike your face can be reason enough.
Now, in a country with a democracy, it can be the same: When most people dislike the wear of the hajib, well it will be forbidden. Like it or not, it's a fact.
It is not a minority, who will be able to reverse that, even with burning flags or silly boycotts about local products. So if you are wise, you will stand over it and focus on your studies.

[KAding]

Just as a reminder, the hijab is not banned in France. It is only banned in state schools and for hospital staff. You can still go to private schools who do allow them.

Nevertheless, I still believe it is a law that runs contrary to what we believe in, namely that religion is a personal choice. It is completely anti-liberal. I also believe it comes awfully close to state-enforced religion, as it is also practised in Islamic states like Iran and Saudi-Arabia, where hijabs are forced onto all women.

[lolwatever]

Trumble,

Of course all women should wear it in an Islamic state, when you consider that the purpose is to prevent corruption in the society by preventing relationships outside of marriage, rape etc and helping people lower their gaze, as if it matters to men who are trying to lower thier gaze if the half naked women are muslim or not!

yeh, same with men who think wearing underwears only is fashionable..

you mean none right? as in no islamic states? lol

sl man :grumbling

[lolwatever]

I consider that as an insult and I will go out now an burn flags ! Anyway, common in some countries as soon as they feel offended or get the feeling to be insulted, no?

coz das about all they can do :offended:

When I go to school, I want to focus on my studies, and not on religious symbols, neither sit beside a person who is covered by a tent, neither hiding behind a scarf, nor wearing a big wooden cross, or whatever.

actually if hijab was worn i think you'll be able to focus more on your studies, 90% of fellas around me all they do is comment on who they're running after, who's hot n whats not. No respect for women no nothing.. as if they're objects on show for all.

That's why it is called a SCHOOL. Once I go to a church, or Mosque or Synagogue, then I can show off my religious beliefs.

what a lame religion if it's suppose to be confined to a room!

mate that mentality stinks, you think the creator of this universe with all its complexities and amazing featuers sent us a manual that's only to be applied within confinements of 4 walls?? :offended:

You speak about the freedom to wear the hijab, well , did you never ask yourself the question, how many people feel offended by that? Believe me, there are more than would admit it !

Why are they offended? Hasn't it ever occurred to christians that even the drawings they put of mary, she's wearing hijab in them... so why the double standards :? Im sure it won't be long till they draw her with a mini skirt n no hijab ( :offended: ) but that's coz you have no concept of consistency in your lives.

Look f. example a shop: When the owner of the shop doesn't like you, he can refuse you to enter. Even he will not provide you only one single reason. the fact, he dislike your face can be reason enough.

that's how the law of the jungle works... if you wanna be a denizen of the jungle, then i understand where your coming from, but civilised people are more articulate than that.

Now, in a country with a democracy, it can be the same: When most people dislike the wear of the hajib, well it will be forbidden. Like it or not, it's a fact.
It is not a minority, who will be able to reverse that, even with burning flags or silly boycotts about local products.

that doesnt answer my question, you decided to not quote this:

"^ actually that's not the point we're trying to make, we're trying to show the contradiction within your own law... you say u got freedom, well where is it?

Your laws are nto consistant, that's the problem, in any Islamic country you go to, the laws are the same, and they just don't change. In your case, one day you could be looked at as a twit for doing something, and the next day that same action is a symbol of pride."

which answers that.

So if you are wise, you will stand over it and focus on your studies.

I've answered that up the top.

tc all the best

[Trumble]

Of course all women should wear it in an Islamic state, when you consider that the purpose is to prevent corruption in the society by preventing relationships outside of marriage, rape etc and helping people lower their gaze, as if it matters to men who are trying to lower thier gaze if the half naked women are muslim or not!

I disagree, of course. If you can provide any evidence whatsoever that compulsory wearing of the hijab would prevent any of those things I'd be delighted to see it. Again, "tyranny of the majority".. the suppression of personal freedom to force conformity on the spurious grounds some 'harm' is somehow being prevented. The idea that a few women walking about without a hijab (which is hardly "half naked" is it?) will result in rape and adultery is complete rubbish.

you mean none right? as in no islamic states? lol

No, but the vast majority of "muslim countries" are not "Islamic states".

[lolwatever]

I disagree, of course. If you can provide any evidence whatsoever that compulsory wearing of the hijab would prevent any of those things I'd be delighted to see it. Again, "tyranny of the majority".. the suppression of personal freedom to force conformity on the spurious grounds some 'harm' is somehow being prevented. The idea that a few women walking about without a hijab (which is hardly "half naked" is it?) will result in rape and adultery is complete rubbish

compare sexual disease stats in middle east 15 yeras ago to what it is now :uhwhat, n compare rape rates 100 years ago to where it is now :uhwhat

No, but the vast majority of "muslim countries" are not "Islamic states".

das wat she saying :uhwhat

[Trumble]

compare sexual disease stats in middle east 15 yeras ago to what it is now :uhwhat, n compare rape rates 100 years ago to where it is now

So what? I assume they have gone down otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it, but how on earth can you link that to the hijab? The reasons could be absolutely anything, a general increase in religious values and morality, better sexual health education, better law enforcement, more severe punishments, lots of other possible factors or a combination of all of them.

[lolwatever]

So what? I assume they have gone down otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it, but how on earth can you link that to the hijab? The reasons could be absolutely anything, a general increase in religious values and morality, better sexual health education, better law enforcement, more severe punishments, lots of other possible factors or a combination of all of them.

anyone with a milligram of brain cells would figure that if a sis is covered perverted men r less likely to get excited n think of bad things which lead to ugly things :offended:

[Muezzin]

We've all got into Farmer John's tractor and let him drive us off-topic.

Unless you want to hear more of my surreal (yet mostly just rubbish) metaphors, I suggest everyone stays on-topic.

[wilberhum]

The thing I keep wondering is, why? Why was the ban put into place?
There must have been a problem that they were trying to solve.
They didn't creat a law for something to do.

So Why?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Because they cant handle religious people =D lol.
If they think stuff like that is a "disturbance" to learning then they have some mental problems. What about other things that most likely cause disturbances...why not put a ban on that? I know why they dont, cuz theyre stupid =\

[wilberhum]

Anyone with a Real answer?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

An answer is an answer.
An answer is real when some gives their input not baseless lies..

[KAding]

The thing I keep wondering is, why? Why was the ban put into place?
There must have been a problem that they were trying to solve.
They didn't creat a law for something to do.

So Why?

Assimilation. They want everyone to accept the French values of 'liberté, égalité, fraternité, laïcité'. They are afraid that rejection of these values will lead to a segregated society with major social cleavages.

[wilberhum]

Assimilation. They want everyone to accept the French values of 'liberté, égalité, fraternité, laïcité'. They are afraid that rejection of these values will lead to a segregated society with major social cleavages.

So would it be accurate to assume those that oppose the laws are anti-assimilation?

[Kamilah]

Ok, let me see the problem from a different point of view:

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right? Well, where is this so-called freedom?
Well, I just repeat my words: It is a good law, and it should become world wide ! No favoritism !
Look, even USA made a step in this direction (at least in different parts): They ban already every sign of national pride (no matter what country) out of the schools.

there is a difference between covering and exposing...

the hijab to a Muslim women is the equivalent of any other important part of a womens dress

its not a mere fashion Accessory or symbol,

It's important to Muslims women as a pair of trousers is to a muslim/non muslim..

so when a muslim women is forced to take off her hijab...she is being stripped of her modesty not just a piece of fabric that represents her faith.

[Kamilah]

i read this article a while back, and it thought it would be useful to post it in this thread.
:cry: :cry: :cry:


The Cennet Doganay Story: Battle for the Hijab

When I look in the mirror before I go to school, I hardly recognize myself. Some mornings I even say, "Wait-who is that bald girl?" It's a a very strange sensation.

Truthfully? It's brutal. My family and I are French Muslims. There are about five million Muslims here in France, a little less than ten percent of the population, and Islam is the second largest religion in the country. My parents are originally from Turkey, but they both moved to France when they were almost fifteen, my age now. My five brothers and I were all born in the eastern French city of Strasbourg, where we still live. At home, it's a mix of French, Muslim, and Turkish culture: I speak French to my parents, I pray in the mosque with my mother, we go to Turkey for summer vacation. We are a religious family; we believe in Allah.

Islamic tradition states that a woman's hair should never be visible in public. The hair is a symbol of sex and sensuality, and in our religion it's considered improper to reveal or flaunt it before men. My mother and I wear headscarves, called hijabs, when we go out. The only time we remove them is when we are at home with our closest family. But on September 1 of last year, things changed for many Muslims in France. The government put a law into effect forbidding all religious signs inside public schools including the wearing of headscarves.

France is what you call a secular country. Since 1905, French law has required a complete separation between church and state, which for the most part is a good idea, as it prohibits any preaching in school and helps ease religious tensions. The new ban is designed to uphold this idea of separation, but I feel the government has gone way too far. We're not allowed to show any religious affiliation at all, and for some of us, our religion is a huge part of who we are. We're not trying to convert anyone or imply that our religion is better than any other; we're just trying to be ourselves.

This new law broke my heart: I was asked to choose between my religion and my studies, between being myself and having a future. Why would the government do that?

The first day back at school after the ban went into effect was a horrible day. It took me an hour to get dressed. I knew I couldn't wear a headscarf, so I chose to wear a large beret, sort of like a reggae singer's hat. I felt like I was dishonoring my religion, but it seemed to be a good compromise. The principal didn't think so. She forbade me to attend classes while wearing my beret, "because of the new law," she said. So I was sent to a separate room, without anything to do.

The same thing happened the next day, and the next. I Was in quarantine, as if my piety were contagious. Some of my Muslim classmates complied because they felt they had to, and others left school completely. Every morning, the principal sat me down and told me I was wrong. She threatened me with disciplinary hearings or expulsion if I did not take off the beret. I was an outlaw, she said. I replied that only very obvious religious signs were banned by the law. I was just wearing a hat, after all. But she wouldn't listen.I wanted to go to school, but I wanted to obey my religion, too. All I knew was that I couldn't show my hair in public. The decision was difficult, but my only option. On September 5, I shaved my entire head of long brown hair. I was bald!

Shaving my head was the most powerful thing I've ever done. It was like transforming myself. I felt I grew up more on that day than I had in all the years before. I wanted to do it alone, but I couldn't reach some spots in the back. I wandered into the kitchen with my head half-shaved and asked my mother for help. She burst into surprised tears and couldn't. My dad came to help. I could tell it was painful for him to see what I'd done.

Even after I shaved my head, I wore a hat to school. I was self-conscious, and nervous about making such a big statement. I continued to spend day after day alone in an empty room, until October 1, when I finally worked up the courage to come to school without my hat. For the first time, I displayed my bald head to everyone. The students were very supportive - they actually cheered! - but the teachers were furious. They took it as an act of defiance, rather than seeing it as a girl doing whatever it takes to obey the law without sacrificing her beliefs. The way I see it, I am doing wrong by neither the government nor my religion, and I'm happy about that.

Unfortunately, there's been some backlash. My parents have always supported me - they never forced me to wear a headscarf, and they never would have thought to suggest that I shave off my hair. Every decision was my own. Still, the bosses at the factory where my father had been a truck driver seemed embarrassed by the publicity surrounding me. I think they started looking for any reason to fire him, and they eventually did. He's hurting now because of me, and that's so hard for me to bear.

Some teachers at my school say I have no future wearing a headscarf - that eventually, France is going to ban them everywhere - but I'll show them wrong. My headscarf is my dignity, not just a piece of fabric. It's me. It's the centerpiece of my outfit, the first item I pick out of my closet in the morning. My pants or sweater must match the scarf. I favor plain colors - no flowers or bold patterns of any kind - and right now, I like my purple one best.

I'll be bald until the school year ends. I shave my head once a week, in my parents' bathroom. My youngest brother, Hasan, who's only two years old, doesn't like my bald head. He says, "I want to play with your hair. Yuck, you look ugly." But I just ignore him. I don't mind how I look - though maybe I'll let my hair grow a little over the summer.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

yea I read about this girl. Took a lot of guts to do that =\

[Keltoi]

I think the riots in France not long ago point to the failure of France's "assimilation" programs. I believe in secular government, but not to the point where a person cannot express themselves or follow the tenets of their religion. What France has done will only alienate more people and cause more problems with the isolated Muslim and other communities within France. At my school I was around quite a few women who wore the hijab and it doesn't affect anything going on in the classroom. This is just an example of the French and the hypocritical nature of their society. No offense to any French men or women on the forum.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Nope ur right...and it goes for anyone who thinks that way =\

[Kamilah]

When I go to school, I want to focus on my studies, and not on religious symbols, neither sit beside a person who is covered by a tent, neither hiding behind a scarf, nor wearing a big wooden cross, or whatever.
That's why it is called a SCHOOL.

if you go to school to focus on your "studies" then why should you pay attention to what the next person is wearing??:?

why should that bother you.

surely that means you are focusing your attention elsewhere. and not on your studies. if that distracts you then thats too bad, thats a personal issue you have..

i dont think i have ever heard of a situation where someone wearing too much...could cause a distraction!

its evident that women revealing themselves causes much more of a distraction, its widespread...

schoolboys falling in love with their teachers etc etc....

surely an exposed chest and the exposure of flesh is bound to cause more distraction than a mere headscarf, skullcap or cross.

[S_87]

.. and exactly this is the point:


France live under rules made by a democracy, and democracy is nothing else, than laws voted by its citizens !
So it means, the majority of of its citizens voted against the wearing of Hijab. But, you should also mention all other details: France also forbid Jews to wear Kippa, same as for Christians to wear a Cross Symbol.
So, it is a fair and balanced law, good for all cultures and religions. No favoritism.

I find this a good idea, and should be also applied in all other countries !

whats so democratic about forbidding someone from covering their head for religious reasons. id bet if the bandana came in fashion itd totally be fine

banning someone is just as oppressive as anything else

[KAding]

So would it be accurate to assume those that oppose the laws are anti-assimilation?

They are either:
1. Muslims who want to stick to their own values
2. Multiculturalists who don't believe different cultures in one society is destabilizing
3. Liberals who oppose government intervention in religion

[north_malaysian]

Bans on hijab for Muslims who believe that wearing a hijab (covering awrah) is obligatory is just like banning clothes for any civilized women.

:muslimah: <----- she will feel naked without her hijab.....:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Sis786]

Its a stupid law, I mean here in the uk i went to a mix sxhool and many girls at the time wore the head scarf i dont think it effected us in any way..Whats the point behind it i mean all it is doing is stopping a person from practiscing thier faith and how is this helping france is beyond me. The reason for the riots is that the minority in France feel isolated so France should look at ways to get different faith groups togther rather then telling them to take of thier Hijabs or caps and pretend that they are ONLY FRENCH NOW NOTHIGN ELSE! Complete nonsense!!!

[therebbe]

I think the riots in France not long ago point to the failure of France's "assimilation" programs.

I agree, it was pretty clear. But in a way it is not all Frances fault.