/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Love & hope, but what about Fear?



glo
09-20-2006, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hi glo.


Read this to get a better understanding:


Love Fear and Hope - The Three Essential Ingredients for Eeman (faith)
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...Fear+love+hope


Fear is an important factor because if a person just has love and hope - they'll feel they can do whatever they desire and still end up in paradise. With that missing factor of fear, then you just need to look around the world today.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Fi_Sabilillah

Of course we should be god-fearing!
We should be in awe of God, of his greatness, his power, his love and his mercy.
Actually, I don't think these things need to drummed into believers. If you know God - how can you possibly not be in awe of him??? :)

What I come across in some threads in this forum though is a terror and a fear of God, which goes far beyond that!
It is a fear of the sheer horror of Allah's punishment on sinners, a fear that is stifling people's faith, a fear that becomes a barrier in developing a trust in God, a fear that turns people into clones rather than individuals who seek the presence of God! :cry:

It truly breaks my heart to see young people tearing themselves apart like that! Even to the extend of feeling guilty for something, anything, without even knowing of what it is!

Peace.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
DigitalStorm82
09-20-2006, 06:00 PM
It is a fear of the sheer horror of Allah's punishment on sinners, a fear that is stifling people's faith, a fear that becomes a barrier in developing a trust in God, a fear that turns people into clones rather than individuals who seek the presence of God!
You said the keyword there... sinners... of course his wrath is worse than anything imaginable for sinners.

But as far you saying fearing Allah has become a barrier between Allah and the worshiper... I say, they have increased in the level of Imaan. You only fear God, when your faith increases in Him... otherwise you wouldn't even think of God.

To you what is horror... for us its a blessing... to be able to understand the message of God. To fear Him for His punishment and love Him for his mercy.

Its a closer relationship with God which allows us to love and fear him... on the opposite end... you don't even comprehend God's existence. (Not you... but generally speaking...)
Reply

glo
09-20-2006, 06:05 PM
Clearly our views differ, DigitalStorm. :)
Reply

DigitalStorm82
09-20-2006, 06:13 PM
It's just another way of saying... Prophet Mohammad (sws) was sent down to us as a giver of glad tidings and a warner of the hereafter.

So you can't just accept the "glad tidings" bit.. and igonre the rest.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
glo
09-20-2006, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DigitalStorm82
So you can't just accept the "glad tidings" bit.. and igonre the rest.
I never suggested anybody should. :rollseyes

I feel my view is being misrepresented.
I said this:
Of course we should be god-fearing!
We should be in awe of God, of his greatness, his power, his love and his mercy.
Actually, post #1 says all I can possibly say on this topic.

It is a question of degree.
If we live without fear of God, we will just wander off and do our own thing.
If we live in terror of God, we will be unable to enjoy his presence and miss what he has for us.

That's all I can say on this, really. Perhaps others have other views ...

Peace.
Reply

- Qatada -
09-20-2006, 06:53 PM
Mankind should feel fear of Allaah because we know that Allaah is severe in punishment, yet He is the Most Merciful.


How can we distinguish between that? We believe in a middle way. This means that we should love Allaah and ask Him for His Mercy, but at the same time - we should fear Him because of His punishment, therefore we shouldn't disobey Him.



Like i said earlier, if this whole life was dependant on love and hope only - then wouldn't everyone take advantage of that and do all the evil they desire in this world, and end up being rewarded in the hereafter?


The same can be said about the rule's in this world. Remember that this world is a reflection on contemplating the hereafter. Therefore if a person in this world believe's that the government's law's are worthy of being obeyed, yet they commit crime's and go against the law - does a person seriosly think the government will let them off because they just believe? Or will the person be punished because he/she actually broke the law?



The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said: "innamal aamalu bin niyyat" (Actions depend upon intentions),



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
09-20-2006, 09:26 PM
:sl:
This topic has been discussed in some detail here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-religion.html

For instance, see the following post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/374101-post15.html

Here's something else that I posted in that thread:
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Imam Ibn Al-Qayyim gave the following example of worship in Islam in his Madarij As-Saalikeen:
The heart in its journey towards Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is like a bird whose head is love, and hope and fear are its two wings. When the head and the two wings are sound and healthy the flight of the bird is good, but when the head is cut off, it immediately dies, and when either or both wings are deficient, the bird cannot properly fly and may become victim of any hunter or snare. The righteous predecessors preferred to strengthen the wing of fear during good times when heedlessness is feared, and to strengthen the wing of hope at times of calamity and when near death.
So just as the head is superior to the wings and is the primary part, so is love the foundation of the worship and the primary matter. The wings of hope and fear allow us to carry our love in flight towards our Creator.
:w:
Reply

Keltoi
09-20-2006, 09:44 PM
I sort of look at it in terms of God's gift of human reason. Something the Pope was trying to talk about...well, lets not go there. Anyway, humans have the ability to feel great love and great anger, and so does God. However, I don't live my life in fear of what God has in store for me. Perhaps if I was a child killer or pedophile I would live in constant fear, but I live my life the best way I know how. In the Christian tradition, Christ did all the hard work, all I have to do is follow his teachings and I should have no reason to fear.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
09-21-2006, 02:23 AM
Hi Keltoi,
The point is of course, why do you choose to live your life in that 'best way [you] know how' ? Like it or not, human beings are motivated by pain and pleasure and consequently, the attributes of hope and fear are ingrained in our nature. Fear of the consequences of our actions is vital in helping us make the right choices. If you think human beings can do without fear, find me a functional society devoid of a penal system! Criminal punishments in society maintain law and order through deterrence. Some time ago I asked an atheist member - whose moral integrity I do not doubt - whether he would still a million dollars if the opportunity was available and there was absolutely no risk of getting caught [i.e. no fear of legal or societal repercussions]. Providing me with an honest answer he said that he might indeed, "afterall a million dollars is a million dollars". With a believer in God's punishment, such a question should not even arise.

Lastly, I would like to know how you, as a Christian, interpret the biblical passages which instruct one to fear God:
Lev 25:17 Do not take advantage of each other, but fear your God. I am the Lord your God.

Deut 6:13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

Proverbs 3:7-8 Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones.

Luke 12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Peace :)
Reply

DigitalStorm82
09-21-2006, 05:06 AM
Nice :)
Reply

Abdul Fattah
09-21-2006, 11:28 AM
Hi Glo
It's not my intention to slander your religion, but I think I can best explain this by making a comparison between Islam and Christianity.

If I am correct, in the classical views, when one is a christian, all his sins will automaticly be forgiven, right? Jesus (peace be upon him) is believed to have died for the inherited sins of mankind. And therefor anyone accepting him as savior is forgiven for their sins. Whereas Islam says, that every person is repsonsible for their own actions. And that just believeing in the truth is not enough, but one also has to behave in the right manner.

Now I understand that even though christians believe they will be fogiven either way, that most still try to behave right and not sin either way. But surely you understand that the one who fears punisment for his sins will keep away from them much easier then the one who is certain of the fogiveness of his sins. So I would say theoretically that a fearfull person is better of then a fearless person.

Regardless of that. The reason we fear Allah (swt) is of course not because we think it is convienient. But because he instructed us that that is better. And also because we have a good reason to fear him. No matter how you see it, if you believe in heaven and hell; then you believe that God will punish some peolpe for eternity. I would say that's a pretty scary thought, I know that I for one would not want to be one of them. Having fear reminds us of that danger. Reminds us of that position, reminds us what we are here on earth for.

peace
Reply

learningislam
09-21-2006, 12:31 PM
Hi glo

by Harun Yahya taken from his book "Fear Of Allah"

WHY DO BELIEVERS FEAR ALLAH?


To understand why believers fear Allah, it is very important to understand that fear of Allah is a feeling which incites a believer’s faith, eagerness, love and respect for Allah. This fear guards a person against adopting attitudes which Allah does not approve, curbs the overflowing desires of the self and reigns in boundless evils. When experienced from a positive perspective, this fear gives constant rise to good actions and attitudes.

This fear distances the believer from Allah’s punishment, and draws him towards Allah’s pleasure and mercy, which results in great spiritual satisfaction. It inspires in a believer the need to respect Allah’s boundaries, gives him an uncompromising determination in seeking Allah’s approval and a constant vigilance. Subsequently, the fear of a believer in this world will save him from the fear of the Last Day and the eternal fear and terror of Hell. A Qur’anic verse declares:

Those who give away their wealth by night and day, secretly and openly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow. (Surat al-Baqara: 274)

Believers who fear Allah’s warnings and punishment and who adhere with absolute vigilance to His order and judgment will possess a superior morality, which Allah approves of: modesty, tolerance, thoughtfulness, devotion, a pure intellect and a deep awareness of the surpassing excellence of Allah’s creation. Such people will display exemplary conduct and possess a high awareness and great sensibility. In essence, fear of Allah spiritually enriches the believer. It increases their inner sight, and engenders a noble spiritual state enhanced by subtle intimations of divine wisdom; it is the key to eternal reward and happiness.

About this issue, Prophet Muhammad (saws) said:

“When the heart of a believer is filled with these two feelings of hope and fear, Almighty Allah fulfils his hope and saves him from what he fears.” (Ibn Majah)

They fear losing Allah’s approval and love

The true believer who possesses an intimate and profound love of Allah knows very well that the most important nourishment for this love is again an intimate, profound fear which is full of respect. True believers, who have tasted the indescribable spiritual pleasures of loving Allah, are very afraid of committing any offence or error that might endanger that love or, worse still, arouse the displeasure or enmity of their Most Beloved, Allah.

Fear of Allah is inextricably linked to love of Allah. Love of Allah can only be achieved with nearness to Allah, which becomes a reality when one develops an intimate and sincere attachment to Him. However, nearness to Allah is not possible without His love and approval, and this is gained by protecting His boundaries and fulfilling His commands. This however, is not a position that can be arrived at without first establishing fear of Allah, because the soul of a person who does not fear Allah will constantly be drawn towards doing things which Allah does not approve of and being neglectful and indifferent towards those things which Allah desires of us. It is for this reason that the only way to gain Allah’s approval is through fear of Him.

This order of things is established by Allah. Hence, to imagine that one will earn His love and approval before one has acquired fear of Him is a sign of great self-deception. Before all else, Allah has ordered people to fear Him. To overlook this imperative and to say that one only needs to love Allah makes no sense. People who assert that they love Allah whilst they remain indifferent to what may be displeasing to Him are, in reality, deceiving themselves in their attempts to ease their own consciences. The love of Allah they refer to is a figment of their imagination and is superficial in nature. People who truly love Allah are extremely meticulous and decisive when it comes to the matter of adhering to His commands and prohibitions. Arguing that fear of Allah is unnecessary is in fact no different from saying, “there is no need for fasting, prayer and worship.” Such people resort to a variety of excuses not only on the matter of fearing Allah but also in order avoid fulfilling many of Allah’s other commands.
Have a look at the titles of the chapters of this book, if you are interested to read , you can download the book from the link given below.

1.Introduction

2.Allah Commands in the Qur’an That He Be Feared

3.Fearing Allah as Described in the Qur’an

4.Why Do Believers Fear Allah?

5.What Kind of Moral Values Does a Person Who Fears Allah Possess?

6.The Qualities That a Believer Gains Because He Fears Allah

7.The Rewards For Those Who Fear Allah

8.The Reasons For Failing to Fear Allah

9.What Kind of Moral Values Does a Person Possess Who Does Not Fear Allah?

10.The Consequences Suffered by Those Who Do Not Fear Allah

11.Conclusion


Source:
http://www.harunyahya.com/books/deep...fear/fear1.php

Peace
Reply

doodlebug
09-25-2006, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I sort of look at it in terms of God's gift of human reason. Something the Pope was trying to talk about...well, lets not go there. Anyway, humans have the ability to feel great love and great anger, and so does God. However, I don't live my life in fear of what God has in store for me. Perhaps if I was a child killer or pedophile I would live in constant fear, but I live my life the best way I know how. In the Christian tradition, Christ did all the hard work, all I have to do is follow his teachings and I should have no reason to fear.
See I used to think the same way but for me, living my life the best way I know how soon became an opening for me to sin all the more. After all I didn't fear Jesus at all. I used to think of him as a friend more than anything so not obeying what I should wasn't such a hard and fast rule since, he was so friendly to me.

Now it is soooo much different! I view God as the Almighty and my fear in Allah is immense. That is a feeling I never had as a Christian, even though it was supposed to be one of the gifts of the holy spirit, i.e. fear of God. I never had it and now I do and what a blessing because ever since I have felt the All Powerful Allah in my life as I do now I have not insha Allah had even one occasion to lead me to the sins that I used to do. Not once. Before it was a DAILY struggle in my life to not do such and such and stay away from this or that. Now it's not even a question in my mind because 1) I pray and refocus my world on Allah 5 x a day and 2) The urge to go against what Allah has said is not even in my mind.

Hope that makes sense. :D
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-25-2006, 01:28 AM
When you have "fear" of God, you are aware of His rules and commandments to you. You are much more steadfast in keeping away from sin. Like if my mom loves me so much and I dont need to fear her, then I would think I can get away with everything. But being God- fearing is having love for God, because you are more aware of what you do.
Reply

glo
09-25-2006, 02:59 PM
I came across this post in Christian forum.
What would your response to this person be? Is that the right 'fear of God' in your eyes?

I'm not in Love with God!!!

I know this title may seem very wrong, but in my case it is the truth. I just realized not long ago that I was never in love with God, I feared him, and when I say fear I mean SCARED!!!!!!! I know he has all the power in the world, and I'm scared of that! The main reason that I accepted God in my life is because I was taught that if you didn't you will go to hell.
[...]
I watch tv sometimes and I hear all of these stories about God's love. I know sometimes he has shown me love, and I always thank him for letting me see another day. But I wanna be in love with him like those people are, not be afraid of him. Please help, Im desperate
Peace.
Reply

- Qatada -
09-25-2006, 03:03 PM
Hi glo.


The muslims love Allaah, that's the reason they choose to follow islaam. They fear disobeying Him because if you disobey someone you love, or go against what they say - you're not being faithful, and you're not actually showing that you really love them.


It's as simple as that.



Allaah Almighty know's best.


Peace.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
09-25-2006, 03:16 PM
That is a bit extreme. We aren't supposed to live in terror. The main reason I started practicing was because I recognised Allah's Mercy towards us, and His Favours. I felt so ungrateful, that I decided I had to start obeying His Commands. But I also recognised that if I didn't obey those Commands, I may go to Hell Fire. When I contemplate Allah's attributes, I think of His Power and His Mercy first.

Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Indeed, Allah is the One Who gives livelihood, The Lord of Unbreakable Might." [Adh-Dhariyaat 51:58]

"Allah will redeem a people whom He loves, and who love Him." [Al-Ma'idah 5:54]

"Truly, Allah loves those who repent, and loves those who care for cleanliness." [Al-Baqarah 2:222]


"He is The Forgiving, The Loving." [Al-Buruj 85:14]

"My Mercy has embraced all things." [Al-A'raf 7:156]

"If you do good openly or conceal it, or if you forgive evil, indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Powerful." [An-Nissa' 4:149]

Allah says in a Hadith Qudsi:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:

When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: My mercy prevails over my wrath.

It was related by Muslim (also by al-Bukhari, an-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah).

Sorry if I qouted too much, but I just wanted to outline some of the attributes of Allah. The last qoute sums it up, really.:)

-Peace
Reply

glo
09-25-2006, 03:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The muslims love Allaah, that's the reason they choose to follow islaam.
Are you suggesting that since I have chosen to be a Christian (as opposed to a Muslim) I cannot be loving God? :?
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
09-25-2006, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Are you suggesting that since I have chosen to be a Christian (as opposed to a Muslim) I cannot be loving God? :?

I think what he means to say is that the reason we chose to be Muslim is because we love Allah, and want to follow His Commands, so that we may attain His Pleasure and Mercy.:)

-Peace
Reply

glo
09-25-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi Umm_Shaheed

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think for me it is the other way round:
First I realised how much love God has for me. From that realisation stems a wonderful and huge desire to please him and to show him my gratitude, by opeying him, loving him and admiring (rather than fearing) him in every way I can.

Perhaps we just define fear differently in this thread. Perhaps the Muslim term 'fear of God' is more in line with what I would call 'awe of God' ... in which case we are all debating over nothing! :giggling:

I fear Satan's influence in my life - that clearly doesn't mean I want to submit to and obey him!!
So clearly, there are different kinds of 'fear'. Perhaps we need to agree on a definition of 'fear' before we can really discuss this topic properly ...

Nice talking, as always ...

Peace :)
Reply

glo
09-25-2006, 03:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
I think what he means to say is that the reason we chose to be Muslim is because we love Allah, and want to follow His Commands, so that we may attain His Pleasure and Mercy.:)

-Peace
Sounds a bit like what I just posted ... :)

Peace.
Reply

- Qatada -
09-25-2006, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Are you suggesting that since I have chosen to be a Christian (as opposed to a Muslim) I cannot be loving God? :?

Islaam has a different perspective to loving Allaah. This mean's that we love Allaah, but so do some of the christians, jews etc.

What's the difference then?


The difference is that in islaam we love what Allaah love's, and hate what Allaah hates.



If a person love's Allaah, they devote themselves towards Allaah. They submit themselves towards their Creator because they know that it will please Him.

When a person want's someone to love them - what do they do? They work hard to please him/her. They love what that person love's, and they hate what that person hate's, so they can get closer to that person.


The same way, we work hard to love Allaah by preferring what He, the Almighty loves. And we turn away from what He, the Most Wise hates. But why does Allaah hate certain things?

It's because they are harmful for us. Which prove's that it's a two way relationship - Allaah love's us so much that He prohibit's us from getting involved with thing's that may harm us, and we stay away from them just to please Him, the All Knowing, while at the same time - being safe from that evil.



So to really love Allaah (God) - one need's to submit themselve's to him, because they realise that Allaah is legislating/prohibiting it for our own safety, and to give us a chance to be rewarded [due to that submission.]



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.



Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
09-25-2006, 03:34 PM
Perhaps we are debating over nothing :p. But I agree, it has to do with what you define 'fear' as. I fear Allah's wrath and His Punishment. I fear His displeasure even more though, as I really want to attain His Pleasure.

I don't fear Allah in the same way that I would fear other things. It's a different type of fear.

-Peace
Reply

doodlebug
09-25-2006, 05:59 PM
I think for me it's like the love/fear of a parent times a million vs. the fear of a criminal. (in the comparison of Satan that is). I may fear a criminal but I won't do what he/she wants because I don't love him/her....just the opposite I'll stay far away, whereas with Allah I'm in awe (good analogy) and as such I want to please Him as much as possible since He was so kind as to let me live! :)
Reply

glo
09-25-2006, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doodlebug
I think for me it's like the love/fear of a parent times a million vs. the fear of a criminal. (in the comparison of Satan that is). I may fear a criminal but I won't do what he/she wants because I don't love him/her....just the opposite I'll stay far away, whereas with Allah I'm in awe (good analogy) and as such I want to please Him as much as possible since He was so kind as to let me live! :)
Hi doodlebug

Can't disagree with your post.
Perhaps we don't see things so different after all. :)

Peace
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-17-2010, 02:18 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-17-2010, 02:18 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 05:16 AM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-24-2007, 06:53 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-03-2006, 09:59 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!