Reid heckled during Muslim speech

[S_87]

Home Secretary John Reid has been heckled during a speech about targeting potential Muslim extremists.
He was interrupted by activist Abu Izzadeen, who said he was "furious" about "state terrorism by British police".

In his speech, Mr Reid asked Muslim parents to keep a close eye on their children and act if they suspected they were being radicalised by extremists.

It was his first speech to a Muslim audience since becoming home secretary.

The protester, also known as Omar Brooks, denies being a member of the banned al-Ghurabaa group.

He accused the minister of being an "enemy" of Islam before he was led from the building by police and stewards.

Respect MP George Galloway, in an open letter to Mr Reid written on Wednesday afternoon, asked how such a "well-known extremist... was allowed within punching distance of the British home secretary".

A Home Office spokesman said that, while Mr Izzadeen was not invited to the meeting, it was "in the nature of an open community meeting... that some people who were not invited ended up attending.

"There was no question of the home secretary's safety being compromised at any time."

A second heckler, who also interrupted Mr Reid's speech, was ejected a few minutes after Mr Izzadeen.

During his time in Leytonstone, east London, which also involved a visit to a mosque, Mr Reid said community and religious leaders could play a key role in the fight against terrorism.

The home secretary said "our fight is not with Muslims generally".

Instead, he said, there was a "struggle against extremism".

And, warning that terrorist fanatics sought to influence youngsters, he said: "There is no nice way of saying this.

"These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children, including your children, for suicide bombings, grooming them to kill themselves in order to murder others."


Following the speech, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said it was "extraordinarily difficult" to clamp down on Islamic extremism without offending large groups of Muslims.

Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live's Simon Mayo programme, he said: "I have seen the incident, I think it isn't at all pleasant.

"But at the moment no law has been broken by that protester, and I think one of the most difficult jobs the police have is this line between free speech and abuse."

Mr Reid later described the hecklers as "unrepresentative" of the Muslim community.

Speaking on Channel 4 News, he added: "If they are trying to shout me down, imagine what they are doing to the vast majority of Muslims in their community."

But Massoud Shadjareh, who chairs the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said Mr Reid's demands were "unrealistic and not demanded from any other community".

He said he government, whose policies he said played a "substantial role" in radicalising people, "needs to come out of this state of denial, stop pointing fingers at others and instead recognise the root causes and its own responsibility".

Shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve said the home secretary should realise Muslim extremism was not a problem just for the Muslim community, but "for all of us".



The speech came weeks after some Muslim leaders expressed concerns about the UK's foreign policy and called for it to be changed, in a letter which Mr Reid then called a "dreadful misjudgement".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm

[Keltoi]

What did Reid say or ask of the Muslim community that is so "controversial"? Asking parents to watch their children closely and make sure they aren't being radicalized. The same as when police ask parents to make sure their children don't develop a drug problem or whatever else is affecting the community. Perhaps instead of getting angry whenever an official asks the Muslim community to take a little responsibility for the radicalism that obviously exists, they should actually hear what he is saying instead of the automatic "the world hates Muslims" mindset.

[Dawud_uk]

i cant believe the elders were dumb enough to invite this enemy of Allah into the masjid and give him a platform to say these things.

my own local masjid had a slightly different approach... the local head of Labour was invited to the masjid and not allowed to talk until the end. just had to sit there and endure us all telling him what we thought of his party and government.

at the end he was allowed a short response but we allowed everyone to come and tell him what for and had the local head of HT there also to give his opinions as well as other muslim representatives.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Joe98]

In his speech, Mr Reid said Muslims should fight extremism.

In their response, Muslims called him "evil".

I don't get it!

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[Ghazi]

:sl:

Is it me or does anyone feel strange when a kafir who has rejacted allah and his messenger is dictating to muslims whats acceptable in their religion I for one find it starnge and laughable he talks of extremism yet he's a disbeliever what right has he to judge anyone's iman, and also he's urging muslim's to spy on their own children he's bascily promoting fitnah in his speech I for one would of just got up and left it's quit clear extrimism in the eyes of the goverment is anything related to Qitaal.

[Muezzin]

Everyone has a role to play. Us Muslims should keep an eye on our children anyway, regardless of whether or not somebody tells us to - every parent, Muslim, non-Muslim, black, white, purple... every parent should keep an eye on their child's development, in order to protect the child from crime, drugs etc. I don't find Reid's words offensive, I just think they're restating the obvious. Muslims do have a role to play, and the majority of us do play it, by condemning terrorism in lecture after sermon after talk, and by simply being law-abiding citizens of the UK or US.

The Government also has a role to play, particularly in its approach to foreign policy. It cannot be denied that there are terrorists who are from the Muslim faith. It also cannot be denied that said terrorists tend to justify their crimes by referencing perceived injustices in the foreign policies of the British and American governments.

A dialogue is needed. My gut feeling is that the kind of angry young men who are likely to become terrorists think that such a course of action is the only way for to make their voices heard. I'm not justifying terrorism. I am justifiying dialogue with all sides in order to avoid further casualties and in order to promote understanding.

[Mr. Baldy]

What did Reid say or ask of the Muslim community that is so "controversial"? Asking parents to watch their children closely and make sure they aren't being radicalized. The same as when police ask parents to make sure their children don't develop a drug problem or whatever else is affecting the community. Perhaps instead of getting angry whenever an official asks the Muslim community to take a little responsibility for the radicalism that obviously exists, they should actually hear what he is saying instead of the automatic "the world hates Muslims" mindset.

In his speech, Mr Reid said Muslims should fight extremism.

In their response, Muslims called him "evil".

I don't get it!

what 'mr. reid' is saying is that muslim parents should spy pn there kids to make sure that they dont become practicing muslims. the muslim community in turn urges civil servants and backbench MPs to look for the tell-tale signs of 'radicalisation' amongst their Cabinet colleagues including support for illegal occupation, branding Islam an evil ideology and advocating increasingly draconian anti-terror laws.

[Keltoi]

what 'mr. reid' is saying is that muslim parents should spy pn there kids to make sure that they dont become practicing muslims. the muslim community in turn urges civil servants and backbench MPs to look for the tell-tale signs of 'radicalisation' amongst their Cabinet colleagues including support for illegal occupation, branding Islam an evil ideology and advocating increasingly draconian anti-terror laws.

Oh please, that is ridicluous. Nobody cares whether the children are "practicing" Muslims, what people do care about are practicing Muslims becoming radicalized Muslims. I still believe there is a huge difference. Hopefully you do too.

[I R Paki]

I agree firmly with Keltoi. I agree with Mr Reid, I believe he respects Islam and these extremists are just brainwashing simple muslims like you or I and saying he is the enemy. This is completly absurd.
Dawud_uk, how is he an enemy? People of his party in my eyes are well elected, Id vote for Labour. I know the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are not going to run this country very well, nor care about the concerns of muslims either. You should be proud of being a British citizen, we are part of the most powerful country in the world, with the most powerful currency, there is the best healthcare in the world, the best education, the UK is a welfare state and we have the best oppurtunities. Extremists and extremism are a big problem, I dont want these people representing Islam, they give us a very bad image. I want proper, practicing muslims representing Islam, because I am proud to be a muslim and want to show everyone why.

[Rou]

What did Reid say or ask of the Muslim community that is so "controversial"? Asking parents to watch their children closely and make sure they aren't being radicalized. The same as when police ask parents to make sure their children don't develop a drug problem or whatever else is affecting the community. Perhaps instead of getting angry whenever an official asks the Muslim community to take a little responsibility for the radicalism that obviously exists, they should actually hear what he is saying instead of the automatic "the world hates Muslims" mindset.

LOL some people make me laugh....

1.this was sooooooooo set up i mean met police and reids security know this guy and that he is a part of a extremist group so why again was he allowed so close they aint blind?

2. majority of people are saying like yourself that muslims this and that what the heck do you want from us!?? when this plum jumped up we shouted him down the elders and everyone there yet its still THE MUSLIMS??

Whatever...

3. john reid is asking what of muslims??? does the man even know?? what u want us to watch our kids for what again?? what if they dislike the treatment of there brothers and sisters in the middle east?? if they grow a beard?? if they attend protests against the suffering of there people???


HAHAHHA what a joke! then arrest all of us and get it over and done with!?

reid is talking rubbish!

if he wants to stop terrorisem then britan should change its forign policy simple...

majority of muslims are living in peace in britan even after being treated like rubbish searched there families searched and treated like crimnials for taking public transport and being religous!

cut the crap if muslims were to truy turn on britan there would be alot of trouble! its called media over kill now be quite!

i see people with beards being hassled tell me one bearded bomber in uk or usa??

whatever... its called being sucked in and the media is doing a good job of it to you and many like you.

wake up!

[Rou]

In his speech, Mr Reid said Muslims should fight extremism.

In their response, Muslims called him "evil".

I don't get it!

lol pls state where you heard this again?? and read above!

again media overkkill and the rest is just magination!?? no wander muslims are getting ticked off onbe punk who is a convert born of jamican roots chats crap obviously without any knowledge of islam and it becomes the voice of every muslim???

whatever how easy it is to beleive such crap hey??

[Ghazi]

Everyone has a role to play. Us Muslims should keep an eye on our children anyway, regardless of whether or not somebody tells us to - every parent, Muslim, non-Muslim, black, white, purple... every parent should keep an eye on their child's development, in order to protect the child from crime, drugs etc. I don't find Reid's words offensive, I just think they're restating the obvious. Muslims do have a role to play, and the majority of us do play it, by condemning terrorism in lecture after sermon after talk, and by simply being law-abiding citizens of the UK or US.

The Government also has a role to play, particularly in its approach to foreign policy. It cannot be denied that there are terrorists who are from the Muslim faith. It also cannot be denied that said terrorists tend to justify their crimes by referencing perceived injustices in the foreign policies of the British and American governments.

A dialogue is needed. My gut feeling is that the kind of angry young men who are likely to become terrorists think that such a course of action is the only way for to make their voices heard. I'm not justifying terrorism. I am justifiying dialogue with all sides in order to avoid further casualties and in order to promote understanding.

:sl:

I agree but the intentions of the goverment is simple they don't want muslims to practise their deen the way they should.

[Muezzin]

:sl:

I agree but the intentions of the goverment is simple they don't want muslims to practise their deen the way they should.

How so?

[Ghazi]

I agree firmly with Keltoi. I agree with Mr Reid, I believe he respects Islam and these extremists are just brainwashing simple muslims like you or I and saying he is the enemy. This is completly absurd.
Dawud_uk, how is he an enemy? People of his party in my eyes are well elected, Id vote for Labour. I know the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are not going to run this country very well, nor care about the concerns of muslims either. You should be proud of being a British citizen, we are part of the most powerful country in the world, with the most powerful currency, there is the best healthcare in the world, the best education, the UK is a welfare state and we have the best oppurtunities. Extremists and extremism are a big problem, I dont want these people representing Islam, they give us a very bad image. I want proper, practicing muslims representing Islam, because I am proud to be a muslim and want to show everyone why.

:sl:

Arn't these the same people fighting our brothers, simple they're the enemy this masonic goverment is hell-bent on preventing muslims from practasing their deen, Just to prove my point go and knock on Mr Ried's door and say "I'm going to iraq to help my brothers" then you'll see how much they respect islam and you.

[Ghazi]

How so?

:sl:

Here's the version of a good muslim in the eyes of the goverment

1.Prays
2.Fasts
3 Hajj
4 Zakat

Your probably thinking I left out the "Shahada" and your right, they don't want muslims to believe in allah cause that would mean true muslims would follow islam to the full not this so-called "moderate" veiw of islam the goverment come out with they don't want muslims to practise islam cause if every muslim was upon the sunnah then they'd have a real threat both from dawa and Jihad and the goverment don't want to loose on both fronts.

[Keltoi]

Just shows you can't deal with the hysterical.

[Joe98]

Arn't these the same people fighting our brothers......

Terrorists bombed the World Trade centre in 1993

Terrorists bombed the US embassies in Africa in 1998

Terrorists destroyed the World Tade center in 2001

The war is on terrorists.

[Skillganon]

Western bombed and destroyed Middle Eastern Countries.

Western supports and supplies with the deadliest weapon to the only terrorist state in the Middle-East that has been subjugating the most brutal and oppressive methods on the palestine.

The difference is it is not called Terrorism.

[Sis786]

Reid needs to know that when you point the finger 3 three fingers are pointing at you!

Perfect Example...

[Mr. Baldy]

Oh please, that is ridicluous. Nobody cares whether the children are "practicing" Muslims, what people do care about are practicing Muslims becoming radicalized Muslims. I still believe there is a huge difference. Hopefully you do too.

hmm... and thats why parents are now getting suspicious of there own children when they pray, grow a beard or wear a jubba howevre radicallised they arent or are, and thats why youth are increasingly bieng pressured to integrate... thanks for clearing that up, its just so obvious now i look at it...

you obviously dont know the reality, so dont pretend you do

[Keltoi]

hmm... and thats why parents are now getting suspicious of there own children when they pray, grow a beard or wear a jubba howevre radicallised they arent or are, and thats why youth are increasingly bieng pressured to integrate... thanks for clearing that up, its just so obvious now i look at it...

you obviously dont know the reality, so dont pretend you do

The reality is that there are people being radicalized in Great Britain, and the Muslim community has a responsibility to themselves, and the country they have chosen to become citizens of, to be aware of this reality and to help authorities when possible. You can make all the excuses you want, but that is the reality.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

radicalized

whats your definiton please list everything that would make someone a radical.

[Keltoi]

:sl:

whats your definiton please list everything that would make someone a radical.

Let's see....

1. A belief that God wants you to kill Christians.

2. That blowing up trains full of innocent people is a good idea.

3. That blowing up airplanes with explosives is a good idea.

4. That is their religious obligation to do these things.

It could go on and on. It isn't a hard thing to get your head around.

[I R Paki]

Terrorists bombed the World Trade centre in 1993

Terrorists bombed the US embassies in Africa in 1998

Terrorists destroyed the World Tade center in 2001

The war is on terrorists.

Dam right. The muslims in the UK are just too stupid to work that out, a majority are brainwashed by these physchos who want to commit suicide. I like in the UK, I dont have a problem praying, boarding a bus and I have experinced any racial/ discriminating abuse towards me. Every school in the UK is taught to have respect for every race, religion and creed and is strongly supported. Right now, muslims are only thinking of what bad has happened, and not looking at their lives in the UK, and now they are throwing abuse at the country which have funded THEIR welfare for so many years?
The majority of the muslims on this thread seem like Pessimistic people. I support what Muezzin said.

[Keltoi]

LOL. You could have a bit more respect for muslims here, otherwise I agree with you.

I have respect for Muslims, this is about individuals. I didn't intend to be disrespectful, only showing my frustration with some things I read on here.

[Muezzin]

People, can we please stay on topic?

[Mr. Baldy]

The reality is that there are people being radicalized in Great Britain, and the Muslim community has a responsibility to themselves, and the country they have chosen to become citizens of, to be aware of this reality and to help authorities when possible. You can make all the excuses you want, but that is the reality.

ok well, why is it that facist groups like the NF rebranded as the BNP are still allowed to exist, but peacful and intellectual groups that speak out in britain are banned?

and who is doing the radicallising? why are muslims being radicallised? just for laughs eh?

the muslims in this community have a responsibilty to stand up against oppression and continous attacks on our people and countries on an intellectual format, not to become chamchaas of this society.

[Rou]

Let's see....

1. A belief that God wants you to kill Christians.

2. That blowing up trains full of innocent people is a good idea.

3. That blowing up airplanes with explosives is a good idea.

4. That is their religious obligation to do these things.

It could go on and on. It isn't a hard thing to get your head around.

wow thats amazing none of those actully relate to a real muslim or islam at all!??

well then its settled muslims ha nothing to do with this some blokes who are messed up in the head did this...

[Keltoi]

wow thats amazing none of those actully relate to a real muslim or islam at all!??

well then its settled muslims ha nothing to do with this some blokes who are messed up in the head did this...

I'm glad you believe those who have committed such acts aren't Muslims. Unfortunately, they believe they are. It doesn't do anybody any good to continue to live in denial about what some in the Muslim community have committed in the name of Islam. You can point fingers, pass blame, change the subject, etc. That doesn't change a simple reality that we are all having to deal with now. The British government has the expectation that Muslims living in the U.K will respect their laws and aid them in protecting felllow British citizens from terrorist attacks. That isn't too much to ask.

[Rou]

I'm glad you believe those who have committed such acts aren't Muslims. Unfortunately, they believe they are. It doesn't do anybody any good to continue to live in denial about what some in the Muslim community have committed in the name of Islam. You can point fingers, pass blame, change the subject, etc. That doesn't change a simple reality that we are all having to deal with now. The British government has the expectation that Muslims living in the U.K will respect their laws and aid them in protecting felllow British citizens from terrorist attacks. That isn't too much to ask.

:? errr hmm denial ok.....

indeed the muslim community is taking steps that its own people know how to live in peace and by the religon that is stated i fail to see why we must answer for psycos who attack planes and innocents...

on the other hand freedom fighters fighting in there own land for freedom they are diffrent from terrorists just to clarify.

oh an also there are many people who call themselves christians who are in iraq and afgan killing alot of innocents and also many who are in the USA who harm oh so many innocents and rape and kill and alot of them are psycos...

the muslim community is doing quite alot to make educate many...

could you sort the rest of the nutters out...

sorry if this seems sarcastic but its fact if muslims have to take the brunt of some psycos on a plane can you take the brunt of the majority of american troops who are screwing up iraq and afgan!??

and also the nutters in america who are spreading nothing but drugs and single mother families around!?

i mean as you said we should not be in denial right!?

[Mr. Baldy]

I'm glad you believe those who have committed such acts aren't Muslims. Unfortunately, they believe they are. It doesn't do anybody any good to continue to live in denial about what some in the Muslim community have committed in the name of Islam. You can point fingers, pass blame, change the subject, etc. That doesn't change a simple reality that we are all having to deal with now. The British government has the expectation that Muslims living in the U.K will respect their laws and aid them in protecting felllow British citizens from terrorist attacks. That isn't too much to ask.

the same laws that say a muslim can be arrested just for looking suspicious and locked up for 28 days without trial. the same laws that say a muslim is glorifying terrorism if s/he shows there support for there muslim brothers across the world. the same laws that allow non muslims to talk about issues like palestine but when a muslim does it, hes locked up. the same laws that enable the USA to pick up any muslim from britain they want and extradite im to guantanmo bay and keep him there indeffinatley. the same laws that protect sikhism, judaism and hinduism but islam is not, so if i go and speak out against any of those religions i can be arrested, but a non-muslim can say anything he likes about islam and hes just using his right of freedom of speech.

yes, i can see why muslims would respect those laws.

[Dawud_uk]

Oh please, that is ridicluous. Nobody cares whether the children are "practicing" Muslims, what people do care about are practicing Muslims becoming radicalized Muslims. I still believe there is a huge difference. Hopefully you do too.

keltoi,

i know of a brother who worked in the british home office. there policy when somali refugees started turning up in the UK was to break them up.

there policy was formulated to stop the relatively practicing somalis becoming a strong practicing community here in the uk that would therefore affect the non-muslims and non-practicing muslims around them.

however the policy backfired because these 'water down' somali communities still altered the communities around them and set up and reformed mosques in their areas, many of the muslims in those areas becomming much more practicing.

the same brother also now says they have reversed the policy to limit the damage the somali community can do on the those around them by trying to limit them to certain cities so that the damage of more practicing muslims altering others behaviour at least doesnt affect more than these cities.

Abu Abdullah

[KAding]

the same laws that say a muslim can be arrested just for looking suspicious and locked up for 28 days without trial. the same laws that say a muslim is glorifying terrorism if s/he shows there support for there muslim brothers across the world. the same laws that allow non muslims to talk about issues like palestine but when a muslim does it, hes locked up.
the same laws that enable the USA to pick up any muslim from britain they want and extradite im to guantanmo bay and keep him there indeffinatley.

Ehm. No. What makes you say a non-Muslim cannot be held 28 days on terrorism suspicions without being charged? Clearly those 'same laws' do not single out Muslims and they are equally applicable to ALL citizens.

That IS the law. Your problem is not with the laws but how you perceive them to be used by the law enforcement agencies. This is a whole different matter. You still have no reason to disrespect these laws. The reason why no non-Muslims have been arrested on terrorism charges and held for 28 days is that no non-Muslims have been found plotting to blow up infrastructure and people. Clearly the British know very well that non-Muslims are capable of such acts, just look at the IRA. I don't doubt they will use it if they find Irish terrorists plotting to, say, blow up civilian airliners.

the same laws that protect sikhism, judaism and hinduism but islam is not, so if i go and speak out against any of those religions i can be arrested, but a non-muslim can say anything he likes about islam and hes just using his right of freedom of speech.

I agree with you on this. Britain is making a huge mistake implementing all these anti-discrimination laws and limits on free speech. Criticising religion, any religion, should be possible in a free country. Attempts to ban such speech in name of religious and cultural sensitvities opens up the path towards authoritarianism.

yes, i can see why muslims would respect those laws.

You should follow those laws. If you do not agree with them we have established means to change them, namely through public debate and parliament. If that is not good enough for some, I suggest they find a new place of residence.

[Mr. Baldy]

Ehm. No. What makes you say a non-Muslim cannot be held 28 days on terrorism suspicions without being charged? Clearly those 'same laws' do not single out Muslims and they are equally applicable to ALL citizens.

please, its naive to think that these laws arent specifically targetting muslims, and we both know it.

That IS the law. Your problem is not with the laws but how you perceive them to be used by the law enforcement agencies. This is a whole different matter. You still have no reason to disrespect these laws. The reason why no non-Muslims have been arrested on terrorism charges and held for 28 days is that no non-Muslims have been found plotting to blow up infrastructure and people. Clearly the British know very well that non-Muslims are capable of such acts, just look at the IRA. I don't doubt they will use it if they find Irish terrorists plotting to, say, blow up civilian airliners.

the brothers feom forestgate were cleared of all charges, the brothers from high wycombe were cleared of all charges, the brothers from london were cleared from all charges, the brothers from birmingham were cleared from all charges. so tell me, who is plotting to blow up infrastructure?

I agree with you on this. Britain is making a huge mistake implementing all these anti-discrimination laws and limits on free speech. Criticising religion, any religion, should be possible in a free country. Attempts to ban such speech in name of religious and cultural sensitvities opens up the path towards authoritarianism.

then really, were not agreed are we? see i would not allow you to insult islam in any way.

You should follow those laws. If you do not agree with them we have established means to change them, namely through public debate and parliament. If that is not good enough for some, I suggest they find a new place of residence.

well, islam has its own laws, its called the shariah. but why is that the west does not want muslims to determine there own political destiny?

[wilberhum]

its naive to think that these laws arent specifically targetting muslims

Is the target set to only fit Muslims or is it a case that only Muslims fit the target?

[Keltoi]

Is the target set to only fit Muslims or is it a case that only Muslims fit the target?

That gets right to the point. Nobody is saying all Muslims fit this criteria, but the harsh reality is that some do. These laws are meant to protect the British people from terrorist attacks, and that includes protecting Muslims there from terrorist attacks. Attacking these laws on the basis of some anti-Muslim conspiracy is faulty to the extreme, and ignores the basic reality of terrorist threat.

[Hijrah]

Assalamualaikum,

would u say things like this are worse in Britain than in America?

[Rou]

That gets right to the point. Nobody is saying all Muslims fit this criteria, but the harsh reality is that some do. These laws are meant to protect the British people from terrorist attacks, and that includes protecting Muslims there from terrorist attacks. Attacking these laws on the basis of some anti-Muslim conspiracy is faulty to the extreme, and ignores the basic reality of terrorist threat.

You wish to get to the point sure lets...

whats a terrorist??

see thats the problem with the world today and mainly the view in the west what the heck is a terrorist?

a bearded guy who reads the quran!? cos there the ones getting the most trouble!? yet no bearded muslim has blown anything up in the west???

nor on 9/11 or 7/7

yet that is the view!? ignorance...

so what are terrorists? those who done 9/11? indeed

and those on 7/7 again indeed

but apart from them??

what palastinians? iraqis!? afganis???

majority of the muslims suffering and fighting have nothing to do with terrorisem!

there just fighting for there rights and some peace!?

yet the view on a normal basis is they are blowing us up and themselves!?

thats a naive view and provides alot of comfort to westerners who dont wish to accept there country is slaughtering and leading a great number of innocents to suffering in other lands!

and when they fight back they are called terrorists and thrown in the blame game for 9/11 and 7/7

thats how most people justfiy iraq,afgan even palastine!???

its called ignorance...to silence the crys of innocents excuses are used...

"oh they started it with 9/11"

"they bombed us first!"

"were freeing them!"

whatever...those who lie can continue to decive themselves in this world but not the next...

[Rou]

That gets right to the point. Nobody is saying all Muslims fit this criteria, but the harsh reality is that some do. These laws are meant to protect the British people from terrorist attacks, and that includes protecting Muslims there from terrorist attacks. Attacking these laws on the basis of some anti-Muslim conspiracy is faulty to the extreme, and ignores the basic reality of terrorist threat.

Im a moderate muslim who saw 9/11 and 7/7 as a sick act and looked to help catch the people who done the act if i could since that time and now my view has changed no not beacuse i think they are right!

i still see there acts as wrong and sick! whats changed is ive been made an enemy of wether you feel these laws are helping or not is your problem they directly affect all muslims and let us tell you mate all they do is turn modrate muslims against british people and britan..

they dont help cut down on enemies of the uk they but create more hate and prejudice your sitting there as a non muslim how the hell do you know what these rules are doing!???

im a muslim mate and i can tell you they cause anger and hate within a community that has lived in peace here for decades...

some idiots decide to act violently and the country switched on the religon islam!???

come again!??

the laws dont make any sense all they are doing is rattleing a hornets nest that was living in peace!??

are you blind!?? have you not seen the increase in extremist views in UK wether from a muslim or a racist!?

its a clash that has been caused!

u think they are trying to protect you!??? you obviously are quite detached from the true aspect of whats going on with muslims these laws and terrorisem i suggest to do more research..

these laws only but help the hate to flow more easily and add to the ranks of exterimists within britan who numbered in the 10s and 20s where as today there numbers are indeed growing...

indeed since these laws britan does have much to fear cause there breeding terrorists from perfectley innocent people by pushing there community to the limit...

think what you want where the ones living it mate!!

[Keltoi]

And you don't think the fact that "Muslims" living in Britain decided to blow up people on a subway train caused a reaction by the British people? You talk about the "effects" of these laws on Muslims, yet it is the effect of waking up everyday knowing that some nutjob could decide to blow up you and 30 other people that leads to these kind of situations. The U.K. is somewhat used to this threat from the IRA, but they also have to contend with the reality of radical clerics teaching hate in British mosques. This threat is very real. I'm sorry to say this, but if another major attack strikes the U.K. or the U.S. from radical Islamists in country, then we will see even more things the Muslims community won't like. I don't know any politically correct way to say it.

[Rou]

And you don't think the fact that "Muslims" living in Britain decided to blow up people on a subway train caused a reaction by the British people? You talk about the "effects" of these laws on Muslims, yet it is the effect of waking up everyday knowing that some nutjob could decide to blow up you and 30 other people that leads to these kind of situations. The U.K. is somewhat used to this threat from the IRA, but they also have to contend with the reality of radical clerics teaching hate in British mosques. This threat is very real. I'm sorry to say this, but if another major attack strikes the U.K. or the U.S. from radical Islamists in country, then we will see even more things the Muslims community won't like. I don't know any politically correct way to say it.

LOL? you think this is affecting muslims badly??? you are seriously not clued in on the cause nor the reaction of what laws like this will do for britan...

now think a nut job indeed we have nut jobs every day of christian descent doing all kinds of crazy things in britan and all over the world but you dont see rules popping up for them based on religous prefrence...

no muslim attacked britan before the iraq involvement therefore a link is born of the politcal policy overseas...

these laws have created enemies for britan in the first place and by introducing more laws like this onshore britan but causes more reason for enemies to be born...

you think that im saying these laws are bad for muslims???

you aint got a clue mate if these laws continue and the community is pushed further and further indeed of course you will see a lash back due to this type of oppression!?

this wont only affect muslims mate but britan! the laws are clearly not stopping terrorisem but feeding it!

blindness to this will only affect britan in the end if muslims are even kicked out of britan britan will still be under attack by terrorists!? probably evenmore so..

dont you get it you cant stop terrorists who have a cause take away there cause and you will flat line there recruitment...

but thats not the plan here...to be a hero u need a enemy...

the one attack that took place on british soil on 7/7 has been the scape goat for all these rules and laws yet if you look at the people involved in the attacks hardley any match the profile that they are using today!??

the attackers were hardley hardcore islamists they were a bunch of the most unlikley guys you could have picked and hardley represented all muslims yet through there actions all muslims are judged?

ok mate ok keep fighting your corner as i said if you think these laws are protecting you then so be it...let yourself sleep well at night but hear this these people are rattling a hornets nest they will not be able to control...

one bombing and suddenley everyones calling muslims terrorists if muslims did decide to take the violent root mate just remember theres 1.8 million muslims in britan there wouldnt be just one bombing...

but indeed these laws are there to stop muslims becoming terrorists duh!?

[Rou]

And you don't think the fact that "Muslims" living in Britain decided to blow up people on a subway train caused a reaction by the British people? You talk about the "effects" of these laws on Muslims, yet it is the effect of waking up everyday knowing that some nutjob could decide to blow up you and 30 other people that leads to these kind of situations. The U.K. is somewhat used to this threat from the IRA, but they also have to contend with the reality of radical clerics teaching hate in British mosques. This threat is very real. I'm sorry to say this, but if another major attack strikes the U.K. or the U.S. from radical Islamists in country, then we will see even more things the Muslims community won't like. I don't know any politically correct way to say it.

And also you highlighted that part why again!? everyone keeps using "muslims" lol and thats your problem heance the terrorist problem it is the west who is calling every muslim a terrorist so it will be the west that faces the back lash of that why blame us!??

let me correct you ok!?

muslims are not allowed to kill innocents heck we cant even kill an attacking soilder if he puts his weapon down!?

if these were extremist muslims they would know there religon quite well mateand also they would know that they are breaking there religon therefore not following islam!?

and if you dont follow islam then your not a muslim....

if a guy rapes a 3 year old and he happens to be a christian then should we assume all christians do such things?

if it has been noted that psycos, killers without cause are mainly christian should we assume all christians are psycos?

should we do a background check on every christian who gets a job in a hospital beacuse one christian doctor decided to murder his patients for the fun of it?

say what you will but its the denial of such blatent prejudices that only but create more terrorists and corrupt more moderate muslims.

if i started stating that all christians in britan are rapists?? then whos that going to make my enemy!???

the buddhist community!??????????????

no!

the christian community!?

by ropeing all muslims under these laws you aint making no friends!

The enemy of my enemy is my friend!

wake up!!!!!!!!

[Keltoi]

Quite hysterical. I use the "Muslims" with quotes around it, because I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists. That is a straw man. Terrorists inside Britain are coming from the Muslim communities, and no amount of finger pointing and crying foul is going to change that. Our governments have a duty to protect its people from terrorists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or worship garden gnomes. If you want to make this about the West vs. Islam, that is your own personal problem.

[Rou]

Quite hysterical. I use the "Muslims" with quotes around it, because I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists. That is a straw man. Terrorists inside Britain are coming from the Muslim communities, and no amount of finger pointing and crying foul is going to change that. Our governments have a duty to protect its people from terrorists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or worship garden gnomes. If you want to make this about the West vs. Islam, that is your own personal problem.

Wrong as i stated as this is our problem as human beings beacuse this wont stop at searches of muslims there will be a obvious backlash and the communities formed in peace well not be at peace if this type of ignorance continues you seem to ignore all ive said and just stick to your own thoughts!? i hear what your saying and i understand what your saying but im telling you from an inside view yet you ignore what im saying!?

theres not much point in discussing anything if your going to just ignore everything one person says and keep repeating hat your stating wheres that going to get you?

im stating fact and that is that these laws are harmful for britan not hlpful and they split communities not bring them together!? and they dont destroy terrorisem but help it grow!? they push communities to the brink and are forcing there young generation into the hands of terrorisem!?

if you try to subdue the feelings of a people they will release them in a diffrent way. in the uk you cant even show your disgust at your own countries forign policy and be muslim otherwise your a terrorist on the other hand if a black,white , christian, jew says anything they are merely discussing polotics!???

continue as i said in denial but these laws and the current path is bad for the uk not good...

[Rou]

Quite hysterical. I use the "Muslims" with quotes around it, because I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists. That is a straw man. Terrorists inside Britain are coming from the Muslim communities, and no amount of finger pointing and crying foul is going to change that. Our governments have a duty to protect its people from terrorists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or worship garden gnomes. If you want to make this about the West vs. Islam, that is your own personal problem.

Excuse me?? you stated :

"And you don't think the fact that "Muslims" living in Britain decided to blow up people on a subway train caused a reaction by the British people?"

LOL if you dont think all muslims in britan are terrorists then why are you staing that MUSLIMS blew up anything at all!???

why not state them as terrorists that they are, not muslims???

Why would i state a christian raped a 3 year old????

i have the understanding to know the diffrence between a christian and an animal who attacks children!

i know the diffrence between blaming a whole race or religon for the actions of a few psycos!

as i stated there are alot of people who need to wake up and see the whole oil being present in the same places uk and USA are trying to suddenley save??

and how a peacful community who have lived in uk for decades suddenley have been made enemy number 1!?

what you think there werent problems in the middle east before 9/11? before 7/7??

there were loads!! where were the terrorists then!???

whatever mate uk and usa are in the buisness of creating enemies when they are needed!

bin laden has already been stated to have worked for the CIA on a number of occasions so whats new with the 9/11 pin!???

conspiracy? i think not go do the research CIA openly admit it... but no one cares lol there all so wrapped up in there own little minds that have been preset by the media...

wake up..

[Keltoi]

Wrong as i stated as this is our problem as human beings beacuse this wont stop at searches of muslims there will be a obvious backlash and the communities formed in peace well not be at peace if this type of ignorance continues you seem to ignore all ive said and just stick to your own thoughts!? i hear what your saying and i understand what your saying but im telling you from an inside view yet you ignore what im saying!?

theres not much point in discussing anything if your going to just ignore everything one person says and keep repeating hat your stating wheres that going to get you?

im stating fact and that is that these laws are harmful for britan not hlpful and they split communities not bring them together!? and they dont destroy terrorisem but help it grow!? they push communities to the brink and are forcing there young generation into the hands of terrorisem!?

if you try to subdue the feelings of a people they will release them in a diffrent way. in the uk you cant even show your disgust at your own countries forign policy and be muslim otherwise your a terrorist on the other hand if a black,white , christian, jew says anything they are merely discussing polotics!???

continue as i said in denial but these laws and the current path is bad for the uk not good...

Inciting violence against the British people and voicing opposition to a foreign policy are two different things. I understand what you're saying about these laws having an obvious effect on how the Muslim communities in the U.K. feel, but you must also understand that the British government must also be concerned about how all British citizens feel. Think about it objectively. Europe and the United States have been the countries millions of people around the world strive to be citizens of, and have been for a long time. Some communities assimilate well, and others do not. There are various reasons for this and an entire thread could be devoted to it. The real problem arises when enemies of Western society are living in Western society. Like the 7/7 bombers. They appeared normal and assimilated in every way. I know one was a school teacher. That didn't stop what happened. There are enemies among us in the West, and unfortunately in 2006 they are coming from Muslim communities. Fellow citizens. It is a new phenomenon, and mistakes in domestic policy will be made. Think about if roles were reversed, and millions of Europeans and Americans were immigrating to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, etc. A 9-11 in Iran, a 7/7 in Saudi Arabia, a "Spanish" train bombing in Jordan. The people of these countries would rightly be concerned, and the governments of these countries would take aggressive action in rooting out these extremist elements. Sometimes it might not seem fair to the normal peace-loving peoples of the immigrant community. I know this post is long and semi-rambling, but I'm attempting to put this discussion in an objective context. This isn't about some "anti-Muslim" bias or conspiracy. It is an unfortunate reaction to an unfortunate reality.

[Rou]

Inciting violence against the British people and voicing opposition to a foreign policy are two different things. I understand what you're saying about these laws having an obvious effect on how the Muslim communities in the U.K. feel, but you must also understand that the British government must also be concerned about how all British citizens feel. Think about it objectively. Europe and the United States have been the countries millions of people around the world strive to be citizens of, and have been for a long time. Some communities assimilate well, and others do not. There are various reasons for this and an entire thread could be devoted to it. The real problem arises when enemies of Western society are living in Western society. Like the 7/7 bombers. They appeared normal and assimilated in every way. I know one was a school teacher. That didn't stop what happened. There are enemies among us in the West, and unfortunately in 2006 they are coming from Muslim communities. Fellow citizens. It is a new phenomenon, and mistakes in domestic policy will be made. Think about if roles were reversed, and millions of Europeans and Americans were immigrating to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, etc. A 9-11 in Iran, a 7/7 in Saudi Arabia, a "Spanish" train bombing in Jordan. The people of these countries would rightly be concerned, and the governments of these countries would take aggressive action in rooting out these extremist elements. Sometimes it might not seem fair to the normal peace-loving peoples of the immigrant community. I know this post is long and semi-rambling, but I'm attempting to put this discussion in an objective context. This isn't about some "anti-Muslim" bias or conspiracy. It is an unfortunate reaction to an unfortunate reality.

Enemies among the west??? how many muslims out of the 1.8 billion attacked uk??

before the laws and the iraq invasion how many of the 1.8 billion had a negative view of britan i think you will find not many!

as i stated you think these laws will help? think again...

some guys attacked a train we all said how bad it was and now we have laws that are aimed mainly at muslims...

again think...how will this help?

i will tell you what will help...

Bring justice to the world and there will be no terrorists...

this aint about spreading islam lol thats a joke...what by blowing you up randomly it might convince you to become muslim err yeah...

its about forigen polcies and the killing of innocents..

[Rou]

Inciting violence against the British people and voicing opposition to a foreign policy are two different things.

im glad you understand this unfortunatly the british goverment and alot of other people dont heance the gowing rift...as a muslim i was prod of britan as far as its understanding of muslims went but under blair it has changed and not due to 9/11 or 7/7 due to his decison for one to go into iraq and to put through these new laws but his whole view on muslims as a whole!? where was he for lebabnon and the innocents killed there??

anyhow this is going nowhere...

i have taken in what you have said and i understand the view of british people thinking these laws are there to help them however i hope you take in that from a muslim prospective these laws dont encourage muslims away from terrorisem but push them towards it...therefore not in the best intrests for the british people they will create a bigger rift and more enemies leading to more attacks.

to finish i pray there are no more attacks and that innocents are spared on both sides from the psycos that care for nothing but power and money...

:w: