sisters attacked for asking to pray in a blackburn masjid

[S_87]

:sl:

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Sister ATTACKED for asking to pray at a Blackburn Masjid
Sunday, 17 September 2006
HOUNDED, ABUSED and then physically ATTACKED. Brothers and sisters this is the reaction I was faced with when, as a sister in Islam, I voiced my wish to pray in a masjid.

Some sisters and I were giving out leaflets which quoted the hadith of the prophet (pbuh) allowing sisters to pray in the mosque - Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:

‘DO NOT DEPRIVE WOMEN OF THEIR SHARE OF THE MOSQUES.’

[Sahih Muslim, book 4, number 891]

At first some brothers quietly took the leaflets, but the atmosphere soon turned nasty when a large group of men emerged from the mosque...

...These men picked on the two sisters who weren’t Asian – a Somali sister and a white revert – and said to them “You’re not even Muslims!”. (How many non-Muslims do you find wearing hijab and niqab???). We were made to feel demeaned by brothers who had just completed their jumah prayers, and called every name under the sun. Our call for sisters to be allowed to pray in the mosque - as it was in the time of the prophet (pbuh) - was met with sarcastic abuse. One young man in Islamic clothes said, “Yeah right and we’ll bring our mothers and sisters in bikinis and watch them do a catwalk in the masjid.”

It was worse for the two brothers who were also giving out the leaflets – they were pushed and shoved by men trying to snatch the leaflets, and one brother was pinned against a car and punched. We retreated to the other side of the street and one elderly man came to us and explained that he agreed with us but that we should go for our own safety. And all we would have wanted was to pray Zuhr prayers AFTER the men had used the mosque for jumah… before I hear anyone say that brothers are priority for jumah.

But the uproar from Blackburn’s goons didn’t end there. We were followed by a car and hounded as they drove up and down the main road taunting and throwing eggs at the sisters. Even more shockingly I was standing by a group of children at the time and talking to a little girl who had wanted to talk to me because she liked my headscarf. The first egg hit someone’s doorstep and the second egg hit us – and the poor girl was covered in egg as much as I was.

The funny thing is, I didn’t feel the least bit humiliated for what had happened, or even upset with them. It was the masjid leaders that I was deeply devastated by. Instead of teaching them Islamic etiquette, the Qur’an and Sunnah, they were enabling the goons outside the masjid and ignoring the hadiths presented to them when all we asked was to pray Zuhr.

The irony is that this mosque, Masjid-e-Hidayah, led by Ibrahim Masters, had issued an invitation to Condoleeza Rice to visit the mosque when she was in town to see Blackburn MP Jack Straw in March this year. So a female American politician with the blood of hundreds of thousands of Muslims on her hands is welcome – but Muslim sisters can get lost.

Is this what some of our Ummah has come to? Is this what has become of some of our masjid leaders?

Sisters have a right not only to pray but also to be educated in masjids.How are we supposed to educate our children? Our children are the future of this Ummah!

The sister of ‘Amrah bint ‘Abd al-Rahman reported:

‘I LEARNED QAF. WA’L-QUR’AN AL MASJID…’FROM THE PROPHET (PBUH) HIMSELF ON FRIDAYS, WHEN HE USED TO RECITE IT FROM THE MINBAR EVERY FRIDAY’

(Sahih Muslim, 6/160.Kitab al-jumu’ah,Bab khutbah al hajah)

We haven’t plucked this out of thin air, these are hadiths. No Muslim can plead ignorance when shown the statements and deeds of our beloved prophet (pbuh).

The masjid is a house of God. It doesn’t belong to a particular person, it belongs to ALLAH (SWT). Therefore unless it was stated by our Lord or by our holy prophet (pbuh) that sisters are not allowed in masjids I should be able to continue this struggle for us being able to pray in any masjid whenever we wish to.

As for the goons of Blackburn, Friday the 15th September 2006 might have been your day to keep us out, but the day for the sisters to gain their Islamic rights will arrive insh’Allah. When you have Allah (Swt) on your side no man or even Imam can stop us from worshipping our beloved Lord in his own house, the masjid.

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2695/34/

:sl:

oooooooooh :rant: this is so rude! how dare they :grumbling

[Kamilah]

I think we need to look at this from both sides, its a bit silly the sisters hanging around the Masajids at Jumu'ah time when they know there will be men emerging from all directions, them hanging around in full view if the men, is bound to spark a reaction,if they had issues with praying they should have addressed it in a diginified way, nowadays, the sisters take on too much of this western "feminism" rubbish and try and justify it with islam,

its better for a muslimah to pray at home anyway,

in the haramain ( although we are in the most holiest and purest of places) us women.. we are told to move (if we hang about in the area's for men)

so in my opinion the sisters are in the wrong.

by the way, i wouldnt take much notice of mpac...they have a beef with blackburn and mosques ....if anyone watched the documentary they'll know what i mean.

also, I live near Blackburn, i go there all the time, and there are many masaajids, Masha'Allah most brothers are very respectful towards Muslimah's, and there are particular mosques that could have accommodated the sisters for Salaah,


even if they knocked on someone's door, ppl would happily invite them to pray Salaah, after all they are Musaafirs

[*LJ*]

Asalamu alaikum,

May Allah(swt) forgive them, I think thats disgraceful what those brothers did, I guess it shows the importance of knowledge and being taught the hadith...I'm guessing the brothers didn't know of this hadith or didn't realise its importance otherwise they wouldn't have reacted in such a way. InshaAllah those sisters will get their place in the masjid and the brothers will realise that the sisters are entitled to this.

Salam

[Durrah]

:sl:

Absolutely disgusting. Wallahi, those brothers desvered to be SHOT! Sick people! I cant begin to describe how i feel and look, they attacked the two non asian sisters!!! I can imagine they wouldnt have touched any asian sister incase her dad/brother/uncle were at the masjid, but abuse other muslim sisters from another race and accuse them of not being muslim. Digusting racism!

I hope some brothers go down there and beat the life out of them punks!! Had that been me, i gurantee any brother who raised his hand (and voice in a threating manner) towards me, would proabably have gained serious injuries, knowing my dad/bros/uncles.

Sick! Thos sisters should report them to the police. Have them locked up.

Thanks for making us aware of this Amani. I'm going to write a long letter to the masjid and tell them exactly whet i think of them.

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[Kamilah]

you cannot take one step forward and take two steps back....

you cannot commit haraam in order to attain halaal..

these sisters have done nothing but bring shame upon themselves, and embarassed us Muslims.

they provoked the men to behave irrationally, they can show all the hadith they can find, but it still doesnt change the fact that they shouldnt have been there in the first place

[Durrah]

Asalamu alaikum,

May Allah(swt) forgive them, I think thats disgraceful what those brothers did, I guess it shows the importance of knowledge and being taught the hadith...I'm guessing the brothers didn't know of this hadith or didn't realise its importance otherwise they wouldn't have reacted in such a way. InshaAllah those sisters will get their place in the masjid and the brothers will realise that the sisters are entitled to this.

Salam

:sl:

Of course they knew sister. Lets not make excuses for them. These masjids up north dont let women come in and space in most cases is NOT an issue. Its not done because they dont know the hadith or what it means, its dont out of their own bigorty and twisted cultural mannerisms towards women They're nothing more then thugs in khameezes.

[Samee]

:sl:

You know what amazes me? That you can go to Jumah, sit there, pray, then spend 5 minutesr making dua sincerely and asking Allah for forgiveness so many times, all humble...

And then less than 10 minutes later, you can go outside and punch people and scream and cause trouble and nullify all that you did in the mosque. What the heck is going on?

[Durrah]

you cannot take one step forward and take two steps back....

you cannot commit haraam in order to attain halaal..

these sisters have done nothing but bring shame upon themselves, and embarassed us Muslims.

they provoked the men to behave irrationally, they can show all the hadith they can find, but it still doesnt change the fact that they shouldnt have been there in the first place

They did NOTHING wrong. It is not haram for women to pray in the masjid and it certanly isnt haram to ask to pray in it neither.

God, your one of those types of women, always placing the blame amongst your sisters and condoing violence towards women. I dont know who i should be more worried about, brothers like the ones amani described, or sisters like yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself!

They in no way desvered to be beaten up, punched, verbally abused at or anything else. The only people that brought shame were those filthy 'brothers'. The fact that you excusing those guys and acting like they deserved it, makes you just as bad as them.

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


subhan Allaah.. the way i just read that - it made me shocked how we have so much fitnah from among our own people.. yet we complain about what the kuffar are doing to us.


Allaahu akbar, what the messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said is so true.. ignorance will prevail, and we argue against ourselves, yet we want victory against the kuffar.


i think it's to do with them men having ignorance, and also arrogance.. audhubillah.



Allaahu ta'aala a'lam.


:salamext:

[Kamilah]

They did NOTHING wrong. It is not haram for women to pray in the masjid and it certanly isnt haram to ask to pray in it neither.

God, your one of those types of women, always placing the blame amongst your sisters and condoing violence towards women. I dont know who i should be more worried about, brothers like the ones amani described, or sisters like yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself!

They in no way desvered to be beaten up, punched, verbally abused at or anything else. The only people that brought shame were those filthy 'brothers'. The fact that you excusing those guys and acting like they deserved it, makes you just as bad as them.

I dont think it's fair that you should judge me and categorize me...:? :offended:

the sisters were in the wrong for being there in the first place FULL STOP!

the men were equally stupid for being violent.

but the sisters were in the wrong, and they are embarassing us muslims even further by publicising it all


no one is denying themof their rights to go to the masjid, read my first post before insulting me

[AQSA]

Subhanallah,


Mashallah, i agree with what the sisters are doing 100%......however i think there could have been a better ways for them to have handled the situation and be heard with respect- minimizing the fitnah......for example, contacting the imam and committee of the mosque and make a suggestion for a sisters section, or maybe get a professional thrid party involved to correspond between them and the mosque.

Who knows maybe the sistere already tried this and as a last resort took up that method of distributing leaflets at the jum'ah prayer.

Or maybe it could be that the mosque its self is small, and space is limited. This is often why certain mosques have no sisters section. If there was sufficient space available for both brothers and sisters, why wouldnt they have a sisters section?.......im sure they wouldnt deprive them of it.

Having said all this, this does not give an excuse or justify what them certain brothers did. Disgusting.


And as for them who blame the sisters for "provoking" them, how can provoktive behaviour cause a person to physically attack somone especially a fellow sister?- (thats IF they were provoking them)


Thats just lack of control.... A'udibillah

Allahu Musta'an.

[Muezzin]

Subhanallah,


Mashallah, i agree with what the sisters are doing 100%......however i think there could have been a better ways for them to have handled the situation and be heard with respect- minimizing the fitnah......for example, contacting the imam and committee of the mosque and make a suggestion for a sisters section, or maybe get a professional thrid party involved to correspond between them and the mosque.

I agree. This... Blackburn lot don't really sound like the kind of guys you want to hand leaflets out to.

Having said all this, this does not give an excuse or justify what them certain brothers did. Disgusting.

All this pushing, shoving, and even a couple of punches - the sisters could actually press charges if they wanted to.

I don't think the sisters were in the wrong based on what has been presented here. All they're doing is giving out leaflets. Believe me, there's nothing more annoying than coming out of the mosque on a Friday and having a bunch of 'Tasty Rolls Bakery' leaflets shoved in your face, but that doesn't justify physically attacking the people handing them out - and it doesn't mean that they're in the wrong for standing there in the first place.

[zash2]

salaam
i think da Kalimah is rite about how da sisters shud have known the men wud b der at dat tyme so it woz wrong for dem 2 b der.. however is doz not give da brothers the opotunity 2 behave lyk dis wid the sisters.. dey cud have ezily sed 2 do this another tym n dat it is wrong 2 have dun it at datt tym insted of thrwoin eggz n creatin violence.. even the old man told dem quietly.. y cudnt one of the brotherd do the same..
i think both r at fault in dat they did not think of der behaviour b4 doin it

[zash2]

i also think that the brothers shud fel so much shame for how dey reacted with the sisters. hOW coud they even say "You’re not even Muslims!”. They just came out da musjid and learn bout Islam yet dey cum out of da musjid sayin this. Their own behaviour goz against Islam aswel as da sisters bein ther at dat time knwnin the brother wud b der. However i find dis very shameful after cumin from the musjid 2 pray 2 behave in such a way.. and such as coment of "
Yeah right and we’ll bring our mothers and sisters in bikinis and watch them do a catwalk in the masjid.” How shameful. no one even sugestd such a thing the sisrterz only wanted 2 ask if dey cud pray der..
i find dat very bad.. n givin Islam a bad name if ppl wer 2 react lyk dis

[Ghazi]

:sl:

Seriously this is a disturbing story but I'm not suprised, this is what I hate when people act all pious yet commit major sins while preeching, subhanllah this is like when a revert comes to the masjid everyone's all nice to them through the process of the shahada when they take it not even salaams i've seen this, those brothers should be ashamed and how dare they lay their hands on those sisters, also by their definiton of a muslim that means I aint muslim aswell cause I aint of asain desent, sickness of the heart thats all I can say!

[Kamilah]

:sl:

Seriously this is a disturbing story but I'm not suprised, this is what I hate when people act all pious yet commit major sins while preeching, subhanllah this is like when a revert comes to the masjid everyone's all nice to them through the process of the shahada when they take it not even salaams i've seen this, those brothers should be ashamed and how dare they lay their hands on those sisters, also by their definiton of a muslim that means I aint muslim aswell cause I aint of asain desent, sickness of the heart thats all I can say!

Brother, it was a friday, unfortunately, at this day and age....not all Muslims who attend the masjid on a friday are "pious" a lot of them go for the sake of going because they have to on a friday, doesnt mean to say they are knowledgable/pious/practicing etc... if this incident took place at Fajr time (for example) you could blame the devout/knowledgable "pious preechers" for treating the sisters that way,

from the article if we all LOOK properly, they did not punch the sisters they punched a brother/s.

you may all seem to think that i am defending/justifying the actions of the idiots, but im not, all im saying is the sisters should not have been loitering outside the masjid on a friday afternoon had they not, the idiots woulnt have had the chance to do what they did.

all this is going to do is generate bad press, its embarassing that they are making it out as though they are being denied there rights to pray...the non muslims already think we women are oppressed.

I know nearly all the Masjids in Blackburn, and there is a huge Masjid in the heart of Blackburn

http://www.tauheedulislam.com/


facilities for Muslims women/girls are excellent.

[Vaseline]

This is absolutely devastating. Here I am, compiling an essay on gender roles *cough*due tomorrow still have 1700 words to do*cough* and ironically, the sisters are not allowed to pray in the mosque, let alone, got eggs thrown at them.

The main reason why they distributed the leaflets during Jum'ah is because they know that at that time, obviously, there will be a large number of brothers praying therefore they will be able to present the hadiths to a larger group of brothers. This will allow the sisters and the two brothers who were with them to pass on information to a majority of the brothers and hope that many of the brothers would agree with the hadiths they presented to them. That was the whole point of distributing the leaflets during that time. Instead, they got a very rude response when the brothers should have compromised in a more peaceful way.

[Vaseline]

Brother, it was a friday, unfortunately, at this day and age....not all Muslims who attend the masjid on a friday are "pious" a lot of them go for the sake of going because they have to on a friday, doesnt mean to say they are knowledgable/pious/practicing etc...

They threw eggs at the Muslimahs. They should know better. And it's really common sense. Being "forced" to go to a Masjid for Jum'ah is really no excuse for their reaction.

all im saying is the sisters should not have been loitering outside the masjid on a friday afternoon had they not, the idiots woulnt have had the chance to do what they did.

loiter - 1. to linger aimlessly or as if aimless in or about a place

They were not lingering "aimlessly". They were trying to make a point and to a majority of the brothers which, unfortunately, ended up as a "disagreement" between both genders [with the exception of the two brothers who were with them].

[Skillganon]

I think the approach of sister was not the best approach.
Firstly I noticed,

1. That they knew about the mosque not catering for women.

2. Next they sought after the crowd for direct confrontation. With Leaftlet demanding women right.

Bad idea with brothers getting the wrong impression with so much so callled women rights going on (remember women leading the prayer scandal) and with the world political situation, so maybe these brothers in ignorance/ emotionally reacted in a negative way, but I must admit these s the worse behaviour I heard from these brothers.

I live in the east-end, and their are plenty of these brothers around who hang out in the street, and occasionaly if it can't be ovoided go to Jummah. I seen those behaviour before.

These sisters has only created more fitnah, instead of approaching the imman directly or indirectly by using a known scholar and discussing it with the imman, or making a request to the trustee of the mosque.

We must ovoid these kind of situation, and always find the best mean of approach.

[Dawud_uk]

I think we need to look at this from both sides, its a bit silly the sisters hanging around the Masajids at Jumu'ah time when they know there will be men emerging from all directions, them hanging around in full view if the men, is bound to spark a reaction,if they had issues with praying they should have addressed it in a diginified way, nowadays, the sisters take on too much of this western "feminism" rubbish and try and justify it with islam,

its better for a muslimah to pray at home anyway,

in the haramain ( although we are in the most holiest and purest of places) us women.. we are told to move (if we hang about in the area's for men)

so in my opinion the sisters are in the wrong.

by the way, i wouldnt take much notice of mpac...they have a beef with blackburn and mosques ....if anyone watched the documentary they'll know what i mean.

also, I live near Blackburn, i go there all the time, and there are many masaajids, Masha'Allah most brothers are very respectful towards Muslimah's, and there are particular mosques that could have accommodated the sisters for Salaah,


even if they knocked on someone's door, ppl would happily invite them to pray Salaah, after all they are Musaafirs

subhanallah!

how can you excuse the behaviour of these men?
even if they had turned up naked it would not have justified such a reaction.

i would advice they take more brothers with them next time just in case they kick off like this again so they can defend themselves.

such cowards are only brave when they think they can push people around without any retaliation

[S_87]

:sl:

the sisters hanging around the masjid isnt the problem, that masjid is in the midst of a community, literally and you see women not dressed properly walking past all the time. the sisters were fully covered and demanding their rights. the point is not knocking on someones door. the point is they want their rights the same masjid that invited that woman, although it was cancelled but still she was initially invited! and they cant even let their fellow muslimas come in and pray after them

and does that masjid tauheed ul islam have facilities for women to pray????

[...]

The men shouldn't have reacted in such a way! Even if someone is doing something wrong ur supposed to tell them gently!! Society nowadays... Didn't anyone else try and stop the men from doing that? I mean they're coming to pray jumah salah and they behave in such a way?

[Abdul Fattah]

This kind of thing boils my blood. Who do those guys think they are. So hypocrite, first praying like a muslim and 5 minutes later acting like animals.
However I o wonder, was this a desirable method of bringing the issue to attention? Did those people try to just ask the imam before they handed flyers? Why did they do it in this way?

[nishom]

Rather Than Give Out Leaflets And Cause Such An Unprecedented Response, Why Not Talk To The Imam To Get A Room For The Sisters In The Mosque?

Make Your Feelings Known To Him And Im Sure He Will Understand.

In This Way, If Brothers Are Going To Behave In Such A Way It Will Be Against The Wishes Of The Imam.

If The Imam Refuses On Unreasonable Groungs, Threaten To Take The Mosque To Court For Discrimination.

Im Sure That Will Chnage Their Position!!!!

[Isma'el]

TYPICAL !!!! Start acusing back n forth !!!
Before we start ranting n raving...!! who els directly knows what happend..? has any1 looked in to the incident n clarified the story.??

[...]

i'm outa here.... (sorry if i caused any offence)

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

subhan Allaah.. the way i just read that - it made me shocked how we have so much fitnah from among our own people.. yet we complain about what the kuffar are doing to us.


Allaahu akbar, what the messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said is so true.. ignorance will prevail, and we argue against ourselves, yet we want victory against the kuffar.


i think it's to do with them men having ignorance, and also arrogance.. audhubillah.

Well said. I agree completely.

[UmmSqueakster]

From the original post, these sisters were wearing hijab and niqab. How much fitnah can 2 covered sisters cause when these "brothers" will go out into a non muslim society filled with women wearing neither hijab nor niqab.

SubhanAllah, God help this ummah!

[Snowflake]

But the uproar from Blackburn’s goons didn’t end there. We were followed by a car and hounded as they drove up and down the main road taunting and throwing eggs at the sisters.

Just one question for now? Do people go to mosque armed with eggs should they need to pelt someone? :confused:

[Vaseline]

Rather Than Give Out Leaflets And Cause Such An Unprecedented Response, Why Not Talk To The Imam To Get A Room For The Sisters In The Mosque?

Make Your Feelings Known To Him And Im Sure He Will Understand.

In This Way, If Brothers Are Going To Behave In Such A Way It Will Be Against The Wishes Of The Imam.

If The Imam Refuses On Unreasonable Groungs, Threaten To Take The Mosque To Court For Discrimination.

Im Sure That Will Chnage Their Position!!!!

From memory, in the article, I believed it said that while the Imaam[s] knew what was going on outside, they did not interfere but instead ignored it. I'll just have a check now. Still have about 700 words to do on that darn gender role essay.

edit:

Here it is, though I'm sure the "Masjid leaders" equates to being an Imaam. I could be wrong.

It was the masjid leaders that I was deeply devastated by. Instead of teaching them Islamic etiquette, the Qur’an and Sunnah, they were enabling the goons outside the masjid and ignoring the hadiths presented to them when all we asked was to pray Zuhr.

[S_87]

Just one question for now? Do people go to mosque armed with eggs should they need to pelt someone? :confused:

:sl:

:lol: i was thinking the same! but there are shops around that area *thinks*

[Kamilah]

apparently, the sisters came all the way from london to make their stance..
Allahu'A'lam, if this is true then the sisters were asking for trouble...

there are literally Masjids at every street corner in Blackburn, there are Islamic centres too, there is a particular islamic bookshop which has womens learning/teaching facilities... where if the sisters had intentions to pray their Salaah... could have prayed.

why cause all the commotion at that particular Masjid...:? :? which does not concern them..?

I have not deemed the behavior of these men acceptable at all.

however, my point is...it is not an obligation upon these sisters to educate the men of Blackburn, they should have handed out these flyers to the sisters/women of Blackburn instead, there are Masha'Allah so many practising sisters in Blackburn who are influencial and eduated, many Farigh Alimah's, there are four islamic schools, one huge madressa (Madinatul uloom Muhammad Zakariyah)

Allah(swt) is going to question us for our OWN actions -FIRST.

sisters we should enjoin good and forbid evil, we sisters should help our sisters in Islam first, the brothers were very much in the wrong..let the brothers deal with them.

the two sisters took the wrong approach, and then aggravated the situation publicising it.

outcome =

sisters were attacked

the whole world now knows about it

people are angered by it

Muslims of Blackburn are now tarred with the same brush

major embarrassment to the ummah

now non muslims will have even more misconceptions about Islam.

May Allah give us all hidaayah, May ALLAH(swt) grant us all the ability to speak the truth and make Aa’mal on the truth. May He Ta'ala accept the efforts of Muslims in whatever way they are working to better the condition of the Ummah and may He Ta'ala put Barakah in our works and make our intentions and our actions straight and according to the requirements of Islam.

Ameen.

[Snowflake]

:sl:

:lol: i was thinking the same! but there are shops around that area *thinks*

lol tis a bit eggstreme if they popped into Sainsbury's half way!

[Daffodil]

They must have obviously known that those sisters were muslim, and they go n call them non muslims, we all know what happens wen u call some one a kafir wen theyre not dnt we, it comes back on their head.

May Allah grant them hidayat ameen. Im appauled, big up to thsoe sisters fighting for their rights.

[Isma'el]

i agree !!! why on gods earth come 100 miles away from out of town (if its tru) jst to make a point..

there are 100's of other mosques that have sisters sections....why not go ther...?

WHAT WAS THE SISTER'S MOTIVE. to gain what..? look at the situation its self.

if they were doing somthing PIOUS n holy ,, would allah have disgrace them like that..?

[Daffodil]

by the way id just like to add, this is the same masjid that invited condaleeza rice to do a presentation.

[Isma'el]

big up to thsoe sisters fighting for their rights.

Allahu akbar,

Look at the fitna it created n yr bign them up.

[Mr. Baldy]

oh god MPAC... *rolls eyes*

those brothers had no right to abuse there sisters and to call kaffir, thats just plain silly, not to mention haraam.... but then again the sisters where a bit stupid, if the sisters want to pray in the mosques they should proove to the brothers they are capable, maybe by starting a little masjid in one of the sisters houses.

[ameen]

sisters we should enjoin good and forbid evil, we sisters should help our sisters in Islam first, the brothers were very much in the wrong..let the brothers deal with them.

salam,

as well as a lot of what you have said in this thread, I would like to point out just how unIslamic the above statement is.

From the Qur'an, we find:

"The believers, men and women, are Auliya (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another; they enjoin good, and forbid evil; they perform As-Salat (prayer) and give the Zakat (charity), and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have His Mercy on them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. " - (9:71)

do you see the stark contrast between your statement and what this verse says?
 

[UmmSqueakster]

Perhaps the sisters had this saying of our prophet (saws) in mind:

Abu Sa"id al-Khudri, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah (saws) had said:
"Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith." (Muslim)


I certainly applaud this method of pointing out injustices, and objectionable actions, as opposed to the method that has been done here in the US, by simply staging a publicity media stunt and inviting world press.

[S_87]

i agree !!! why on gods earth come 100 miles away from out of town (if its tru) jst to make a point..

there are 100's of other mosques that have sisters sections....why not go ther...?


if they were doing somthing PIOUS n holy ,, would allah have disgrace them like that..?..?

:sl:

actually many many many of the masjids in uk do NOT allow women in.

and as for your last sentence, well remember how much the sahabah had to suffer.. was their cause not right? they went through 10000000 more suffering.......

[Kamilah]

salam,

as well as a lot of what you have said in this thread, I would like to point out just how unIslamic the above statement is.

From the Qur'an, we find:

"The believers, men and women, are Auliya (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another; they enjoin good, and forbid evil; they perform As-Salat (prayer) and give the Zakat (charity), and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have His Mercy on them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. " - (9:71)

do you see the stark contrast between your statement and what this verse says?
*

whats your point sis?

rather than pointing out the "UN"islamicness of my posts and personally attacking me, look at the issue at hand-the opening post to the thread

would you care to Islamically the justify the actions of two young women travelling to the other side of the country to hand out leaflets outside a masjid (which does even not concern them, A Masjid that they will NOT even regularly be attending!!!) on the day of jum'uah? in the pathway of men?

what good came of it?

[S_87]

:sl:

did they travel from the other side of country?

[ameen]

whats your point sis?

would you care to Islamically the justify the actions of two young women travelling to the other side of the country to hand out leaflets outside a masjid (which does even not concern them, A Masjid that they will NOT even regularly be attending!!!) on the day of jum'uah? in the pathway of men?

salam,

what do you mean when you say 'masjid which does not concern them' ?

Of-course it concerns them . Are you suggesting that they become selfish and only care about what affects themselves and not others who are deprived from entering other mosques?

If they have done this out of consideration for others, is that not a good thing?

I'm not a sister bytheway.

wsalam

[Kamilah]

salam,

what do you mean when you say 'masjid which does not concern them' ?

Of-course it concerns them . Are you suggesting that they become selfish and only care about what affects themselves and not others who are deprived from entering other mosques?

If they have done this out of consideration for others, is that not a good thing?

I'm not a sister bytheway.

wsalam

:w:

i think you are missing the point,

BLACKBURN HAS MANY FACILITIES FOR SISTERS!

facilities for Muslimah's in Blackburn are abundant..Alhamdulillah!

I dont see the women of Blackburn complaining?

I would suggest you go and read the MPAC website and read up on their articles (that article in particular and the comments) and their forum.

mpac are a political lobbying group, they spend the majority of their time takfeering mainly masjid imams..its a conicidence how they went to that particular masjid if their so called intentions were to pray
they are playing on the whole "women praying in mosques" issue...

[ameen]

i think you are missing the point,

BLACKBURN HAS MANY FACILITIES FOR SISTERS!

salam,

Blackburn having many facilities for women is not the point.

The point is that too many Mosques around the world deprive women from having proper access to them, and the particular Blackburn Mosque concerned here is one of them - so it is also part of the problem.

wsalam
 

[Kamilah]

salam,

Blackburn having many facilities for women is not the point.

The point is that too many Mosques around the world deprive women from having proper access to them, and the particular Blackburn Mosque concerned here is one of them - so it is also part of the problem.

wsalam
*

so then all of a sudden it became fard upon the two sisters to travel 250 miles up to Blackburn of all places to that masjid of all masjids? that particular masjid isnt even central its a different area of Blackburn,

isnt it a coincendence that this article was posted only on the MPAC website,

isnt it a coincedence that they decided to demand rights at that particular masjid ...the same masjid that ibrahim masters (pro-labour) runs?


the sisters first hand account was posted on mpac website...
their statement doesnt show genuine distress and hurt,

i wouldnt worry about this incindent any further, its as clear as day, that their real reasons for doing this was nothing but a political agenda.

[Sum-Muslim-Gal]

ok we gotta really see it 4rm both sides who really knows what happened whateva happend happend lets leav it 2 allah swt 2 judge that...

:w::)

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

The Evils of Disputation
Qur'an 43:58
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL, THE MOST KIND

Debating, arguing and disputing are innovations which throws doubt into the heart, even if the person reaches the truth and the Sunnah.

At-Tirmidhee reports a hasan hadeeth from Abu Usaamah, who said: Allah's Messenger, Sallallahu Alahi WA Salaam, said " A people never went astray after being upon guidance except through disputation."

Then Allah's Messenger, Sallallahu Alahi WA salaam, recited this Ayah: This they set forth to you only by way of argument. Nay but they are a contentious people.

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post494796



Let's make dua' for the muslim ummah insha'Allaah.. instead of arguing from all sides.

[Sum-Muslim-Gal]

thats tru bro^^^

:w:

[sonz]

if they were doing somthing PIOUS n holy ,, would allah have disgrace them like that..?

salama

thats silly

stones were thrown at the prophet (saw) and the sahabas when they did dawah does that mean that they were disgraced or tested???

[~Stranger~]

:sl:

its better for a muslimah to pray at home

i totally agree with this but it still doesnt justify the males reaction- to physically ATTACK the sisters?!!!! :?

“Yeah right and we’ll bring our mothers and sisters in bikinis and watch them do a catwalk in the masjid.”

what does this have anything to do with what was happening?? :?

MPACUK is the UK's Leading Muslim civil liberties group, empowering Muslims to focus on non-violent Jihad and political activism

i heard bad things about this org.
:w:

[AHMED_GUREY]

:raging:

[Ghazi]

:sl:

Muslims today actually forget who owns a mosque, you sometimes see caretakers calling shots dictating things when not needed, a mosque belongs to allah muslims should be extremly careful not to become dictators in them.

[Isaac]

Can i ask any of those brothers that used such abusive behavious to show me from the quran and sunnah, where this can be justified. Ok, the sisters could have picked a quiter time, perhaps even a different approach, but to attack them and the brothers in such a way, is something which they will have to try and justify on the day of judgement. And you know what shame on thsoe people that just stood their and watched their sisters get humilated, by muslim men, who were doing what they fear would happen if sisters came to the masajid in the first place. Let me ask, would those brothers allow men to abuse their sisters or mothers like that?

You know what shame on those brothers and fathers hat stood in the house of Allah and witnessed their mothers and sisters being abused. Thats the thing with the ummah, if its not in your own back yard it doesnt matter. If the muslims can do this, is their any questioning when the kuffar do this?

[glo]

I don't understand ... why weren't the women allowed in the masjid in the first place? :?:?:?
There's obviously something I am not getting here ...

[sameer]

some how i cant picture borthers pelting sisters with eggs? do these things really happen?

I think we should get both sides of the story b4 we choose . Does anyknow here know of the masjid in Blackburn? is it big? does it have enough room for women for jumma? Obivioulsy if the Moaque is too small to fit both male and female..then the men have a right to fill it - remember its compulsory for them.

However, regardless of the situation, i dont think the men should have roughed up the women, if in fact that did happen.

[InToTheRain]

:sl:

This whole incident has cause Fitnah amongst the Muslims int Blackburn community. From what I understand the brothers their are strongly against it even though they have acted and decided without knowledge. I think its best not to persue this "Muslim woman in masjid" until the brothers their are educated in order to avoid Fitnah. Even if some how woman were allowed in in the mosque at this stage the violence will just climax.

100% agree with bro Fi_sabillilah.

:w:

[S_87]

I don't understand ... why weren't the women allowed in the masjid in the first place? :?:?:?
There's obviously something I am not getting here ...

peace

culture culture culture. many masjids dont allow women cos they think its wrong :( including many in blackburn.
i remember i once went into a local masjid and no one told me anything, but after my dad said, there were people wondering who u were and why you were there at that time! and it wasnt even prayer time or anything, and i was younger!

the women of blackburn do complain plus they have a good 20 masjids in blackburn if i remember correctly. i dont recall any of the 20 im mentioning have jamah for men and women :?

[glo]

peace

culture culture culture. many masjids dont allow women cos they think its wrong :( including many in blackburn.
i remember i once went into a local masjid and no one told me anything, but after my dad said, there were people wondering who u were and why you were there at that time! and it wasnt even prayer time or anything, and i was younger!

the women of blackburn do complain plus they have a good 20 masjids in blackburn if i remember correctly. i dont recall any of the 20 im mentioning have jamah for men and women :?

But how can it be wrong for women to go to mosque and worship??? :(
Does it say that in the Qu'ran?

[S_87]

But how can it be wrong for women to go to mosque and worship??? :(
Does it say that in the Qu'ran?

Peace

not at all, infact Muhammed :arabic5: said not to prevent women from going to the masjid.

[~Stranger~]

these sisters have done nothing but bring shame upon themselves, and embarassed us Muslims.

they provoked the men to behave irrationally, they can show all the hadith they can find, but it still doesnt change the fact that they shouldnt have been there in the first place

:sl:
kamilah hun, even if the sisters r wrong these males have no right to physically attacjk them.
and seems like the sisters didnt have to do much to PROVOKE these males...
nothing was done in this case is right, both sides have acted shamefully. but attack sisters??!!!!!! :?

It is not haram for women to pray in the masjid

but its much better for them to pray in their houses right?
:w:

[Kamilah]

I don't understand ... why weren't the women allowed in the masjid in the first place? :?:?:?
There's obviously something I am not getting here ...

Women are allowed to go to the Masjid,providing there is room to facilitate them, it is imperitive upon men to go to the masjid and pray, but its a little more complex for women (due to lack of child provisions, and other commitments a women may have also the dangers of free mixing etc..) hence why our lord has made it easy for us women and has not commanded us to go pray our five daily prayers at the masjid, and hence why we earn greater reward if we pray from home. In large cities, mosques are able to afford bigger buildings where they can successfully accomodate and provide the relevent facilities for both men and women...London Muslim Centre is one example of a well facilitated masjid.

unfortunately in other parts of the UK, communities do not have the space or the funding to do this...

in the incident which took place in Blackburn, the two sisters involved, they chose that particual mosque out of the 29 mosques(where facilities could/are widely available to women) in the locality of Blackburn, basically to cause a commotion, knowing full well that they will come head to head with irrational delinquents.

politics is involved in this case.

[*LJ*]

Asalamu alaikum,

I think that none of us are going to agree on 'who was in the wrong' in this issue and I'm not sure that it really matters too much...Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) know the intentions of the people who were involved and I think maybe we should just leave it at that. I don't know what to think as I don't know much about MPAC and of course I don't know the intentions of the sisters involved.

Just one more thing:
Do women get more reward for praying at home or do we get the same reward whether we pray in the masjid or at home???
(And also is there a greater reward for praying in Jamah with others?)

Salam

[Vaseline]

I am definitely sure that you are awarded more sunnah for praying with Jam'ah. Not sure about the masjid and the home salaat though.

[kormath]

وهم يحسبون انهم يحسنون صنعا

[kormath]

In our area some of the authorities of Mosque established seperate buildings foe women to worship near the Mosque. They belive that the entering of the women in Mosque is prohibited by Islam. A majority of the Ulama teach them so.

[Hashim_507]

This is very wrong...

[Kamilah]

It is permitted for women to attend the congregational prayers at the mosques and their husbands may not prevent them from doing so unless it is feared that harm will come to them. However, it is preferable for women to perform prayers at their homes. The Prophet (peace be upon him) says:“ Do not prohibit women to attend prayer at mosque, but prayer at their homes is better for them” (Reported by Imam Ahmad).

If, however, women decide to go out for prayer at the mosques, they should neither dress nor perfume themselves in a manner that may attract the attention of men. At the mosques, it is an established tradition that women perform their prayers preferably in their own partition behind the rows of men.

[glo]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

[*LJ*]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

Hey Glo,

I'm just going to try explain the issue a bit better for you.I think you've misunderstood a bit. The Prophet(sallallahu alaihi wasalam) expressed that women have exactly the same right to worship in the mosque as men. The way it should be is that all mosques should allow women in but unfortunately that sometimes doesn't happen. It's not that the religion that prevents women having rights to enter a mosque, its some of the followers unfortunately.

In many mosques women do have the same rights as men to enter and pray and learn etc, most mosques where I live are fine about this, I only know of one which does not cater for women but they are in the process of getting a women's section.

You can't judge a religion by the followers you have to look at the Holy Book and the fundamentals of the religion... in the case of Islam you need to look at the Qur'an and Sunnah to determine what the religion teaches.

I hope that clears things up a bit for you.

Take care

[- Qatada -]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

Hi glo.


If you've read all the previous posts, and even think about the reason why the sister posted this thread - you'll realise that nearly everyone on this thread said that them guy's did the wrong thing.


Why was that? It's because them men acted in a arrogant and aggressive way - when it's been mentioned over and over again that this is not what islam teaches.


We also said that this may have been out of the ignorance of those men, who never actually knew that women should be allowed to pray within the masjid (even though this was so popular at the time of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him.) Now add ignorance and arrogance together of the people, what do you think that equals?



Second point i want to make is that most likely, due to blackburn having a big majority of pakistani/indian/bengali population - their culture is part of the hindi/indian culture, and what does their culture do?

You may have even read this on the news a few days back - but some hindu sons actually threw their mother alive into the same fire her husband was put into, due to their hindu death incineration process. Why was this? It's because in that culture - women are treated like dirt.


Now let's add another substance into the equation:

Ignorance (of islaam) + Arrogance + Degradation of women culture = ?


I'll leave you think about that.



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

[AQSA]

Do women get more reward for praying at home or do we get the same reward whether we pray in the masjid or at home???
(And also is there a greater reward for praying in Jamah with others?)

Salam

:w:


Umme Humaid the wife of Abu Humaid As-Sa’adi (ra) narrates that she came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said,

“O Messenger of Allah, indeed I love to pray with you.”

He replied,

“I know that you love to pray with me, but your prayer in your bedroom is better than your prayer in your living room and your prayer in your living room is better than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better than your prayer in your neighborhood masjid and your prayer in your masjid is better than your prayer in my masjid”.

The narrators says,

“So she gave an order and a masjid was constructed for her in the farthest and darkest corner of her house and she continued to pray there until she died.”

(Sahidh Ibn Hibban hadith no. 2214 and Shahih Ibn Khuzaimah hadith no.1689).

[ameen]

The narrators says,

“So she gave an order and a masjid was constructed for her in the farthest and darkest corner of her house and she continued to pray there until she died.”

salam,

this nicely explains the new efforts being made by the men - which clearly seem like 'gradual steps' toward completely eliminating women from the Masjid Al-Haram in Makkah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...-proposal.html

wsalam
 

[Isma'el]

:w:


Umme Humaid the wife of Abu Humaid As-Sa’adi (ra) narrates that she came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said,

“O Messenger of Allah, indeed I love to pray with you.”

He replied,

“I know that you love to pray with me, but your prayer in your bedroom is better than your prayer in your living room and your prayer in your living room is better than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better than your prayer in your neighborhood masjid and your prayer in your masjid is better than your prayer in my masjid”.

The narrators says,

“So she gave an order and a masjid was constructed for her in the farthest and darkest corner of her house and she continued to pray there until she died.”

(Sahidh Ibn Hibban hadith no. 2214 and Shahih Ibn Khuzaimah hadith no.1689).

I Think this hadith sum's everything up...!! If its better for the si8ster to pray at home then why go to the mosque, surly u get more rewards if its better at home.? then why deprive your self of the rewards..

[Ann]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

Hi glo,

I think some of the others have already made it clear that Islam does not prohibit women in the masjid, sadly as stated its more of a culture thing and one that certainly doesnt present out religion in the best of light. And absoulutely these men acted horribly but I have to admit I think the sisters went about it in the wrong way. I agree they should be allowed to pray in the masjid and (someone help me here, though I know theres hadith that says its better for ladies to pray at home isnt there also one about greater reward for those who pray in congregation???) Anway I think they should have contacted the imam on any day other than friday and perhaps also they could have tried to speak to the wives of some of the elders, form a commitee as someone else mentioned and opened a dialouge, rather then showing up with pamphlets after Jummah prayer. Another option is to contact an imam at a masjid that does have a ladies section and ask him to speak to imam of this masjid. Perhaps with that kind of support and a chance to present thier case in that way they might have faired better.

Having said that I think these men need to move out of the dark ages and find a room or space to be sectioned off for the sisters to use during prayer.

( And Glo, thanks from the PM, its nice to see your still here. Take care)

[Ann]

oh and heres an interesting link that goes to culture vs religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT3ol-iuCGU

[Isma'el]

Are womens's pray's better at home or in the mosque is the question here..?

What do the four school of fiQ say regarding this issue...? majority of ulama say it's permissable but not desirable due to the time we are in, regards fitna etc.

[Ali_slave of Allah]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

its not the sisters fault y r u blaming islam instead of blaming the guys
when some1 drives a car in a badway nobody blames the car when a muslim does something wrong it is islam that goes to trail y coz he is a muslim

[Ann]

its not the sisters fault y r u blaming islam instead of blaming the guys
when some1 drives a car in a badway nobody blames the car when a muslim does something wrong it is islam that goes to trail y coz he is a muslim

I dont think she was blaming anyone, she was just asking a question. She is not muslim and was ooking for an explination. If you read any of her other post you will see she is not judgemental about our religion, shes just trying to get a clearer picture. I wish more christians would follow her example and seek the truth from practicing muslims instead of the news broadcasts.

[Ali_slave of Allah]

okay then my bad i am sorry glo if i offended any1

[Ali_slave of Allah]

thanx 4 correcting me sister

[~Stranger~]

:sl:

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

perhaps this is what u think but we muslim disagree with and the hadith the blessed sis aqsa posted shows the proof for that

Umme Humaid the wife of Abu Humaid As-Sa’adi (ra) narrates that she came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said,

“O Messenger of Allah, indeed I love to pray with you.”

He replied,

“I know that you love to pray with me, but your prayer in your bedroom is better than your prayer in your living room and your prayer in your living room is better than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better than your prayer in your neighborhood masjid and your prayer in your masjid is better than your prayer in my masjid”.

The narrators says,

“So she gave an order and a masjid was constructed for her in the farthest and darkest corner of her house and she continued to pray there until she died.”

(Sahidh Ibn Hibban hadith no. 2214 and Shahih Ibn Khuzaimah hadith no.1689).

conclusion is:

majority of ulama say it's permissable but not desirable due to the time we are in, regards fitna etc.

i know u dont intend to attack islam but remember its not ur religion and some of the things that we practice or believe in might not make sense to u. trinity doesnt make sense to me but i wont bash at christianty just based on that. u need to look ndeep deep inside islam and know our priorities- somthing i believe u havent acheived evn after all this time chatting to muslim.

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

yes it does even thought u dont see that. some ppl think that womens right is to wear as less clothes as they can, i know u disagree with them.

Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ...

thats not correct.

man+mosque=woman+home=hasanat (good rewards insha'allah)

so plz try not to jump to conclusion

:w:

p.s. sis Ann, may I email u??

[S_87]

Are womens's pray's better at home or in the mosque is the question here..?

What do the four school of fiQ say regarding this issue...? majority of ulama say it's permissable but not desirable due to the time we are in, regards fitna etc.

:sl:

yes but this can only be correctly implemented by the same people who ban women, if they ban women from going anywhere. because there is much much much more fitnah in malls and on the street! than a womans only section of a masjid. :hiding:

[Ann]

:sl:

:sl:

p.s. sis Ann, may I email u??

Stranger, you may PM me if you like but I am still a limited member and will not be able to respond to you.
:w:

[Isma'el]

4get the fitna in malls n stuff,,,
i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.
but some sistes fail to understand..they stay under the flag "women rights".

The biggest problem is we have tooo many self made scholars, they can relate hadiths, interpret them n literally understand them as well ...WOW

[S_87]

4get the fitna in malls n stuff,,,
i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.
but some sistes fail to understand..they stay under the flag "women rights".

The biggest problem is we have tooo many self made scholars, they can relate hadiths, interpret them n literally understand them as well ...WOW

no no no brother. if youre gonna ban women from going to the masjid, like i said you must put a ban on women going anywhere.

Abdullah bin Umar Radhiullahu anhu said:

i heard the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: say:
Do not prevent your women from going to the masjid if they ask your permission.

Bilal ibn Abdullah said: By Allah, we would certainly prevent them.

Abdullah said: I say that the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said it and you say: We would certainly prevent them.


another

Ibn Umar Radhiullahu anhu reported:
The Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said: do not prevent women from going to the mosque at night.
A boy said to Abdullah bin Umar: We would never let them go out, that they may not be caught in evil.
He (the narrator) said: Ibn Umar reprimanded him and said.. I am saying that the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said this, but you say: We would not allow!
both narrated sahih muslim


i think this shows that even if the house is better do not prevent women

[nishom]

SALAAM,

At the mosque that i go to, there are lots of sisters circles (arabic, tajweed, seerah, fiqh) and sport programmes. Sisters can also pray at the mosque for thye 5 prayers, and pray Taraweeh there.

Mashallah the committee members recognise the fact that women have rights as well and that the mosque is not only for men.

What the hell is wrong with these mosques who prevent sisters form praying in the House of Allah?

"Do not stop the maid servants of Allah from going to the mosques of Allah." (Muwatta of Imam Malik)


"When the wife of one of you asks about going to the mosque, do not stop her." (Bukhari)


Narrated Ibn Umar: The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Allow women to go to the Mosques at night." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 22)


Narrated Ibn Umar: One of the wives of Umar (bin Al-Khattab) used to offer the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayer in congregation in the Mosque. She was asked why she had come out for the prayer as she knew that Umar disliked it, and he has great ghaira (self-respect). She replied, "What prevents him from stopping me from this act?" The other replied, "The statement of Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) : 'Do not stop Allah's women-slave from going to Allah s Mosques' prevents him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 23)


Ibn 'Umar reported: Grant permission to women for going to the mosque in the night. His son who was called Waqid said: Then they would make mischief. He (the narrator) said: He thumped his (son's) chest and said: I am narrating to you the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), and you say: No! (Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0890)


Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not deprive women of their share of the mosques, when they seek permission from you. Bilal said: By Allah, we would certainly prevent them. 'Abdullah said: I say that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said it and you say: We would certainly prevent them! (Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0891)


Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Atika bint Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl, the wife of Umar ibn al-Khattab, used to ask Umar ibn al-Khattab for permission to go to the mosque. He would keep silent, so she would say, "By Allah, I will go out, unless you forbid me," and he would not forbid her. (Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14, Number 14.5.14)

[nishom]

And who is more unjust than he who forbids mention of God's name from any of His houses of worship and strive for their ruin although they have no right to enter them save in fear of God. For them, in this world, there is ignominy in store; and for them, in life to come, awesome suffering [2 (Surat Al Baqarah):114].

In another verse Al Quran states: But what have they now in their favor that God should not punish them- seeing that they bar the believers from the Sacred Mosque, although they are not its rightful guardians? None but the God-conscious can be its guardians; but most of them do not know [8 (Surat Al Anfal):34].

In another verse Al Quran states: Behold, as for those who are bent on denying the truth and bar others from the path of God and from the Sacred Mosque which We have set up for all people alike - both those who dwell there and those who come from abroad - and all who seek to profane it by deliberate evildoing, all such shall We cause to taste grievous suffering in life to come [22 (Surat Al Hajj):25].

In another verse Al Quran specifically addresses Hazrat Marayam to offer prayer in congregation. Al Quran states: O Mary! Worship your Lord devoutly, prostrate (Arabic word irkai) yourself and bow down in prayer with those who bow down (Arabic word ar-rakiun) [3(Surat Al Imran): 43].

In a Hadith the Prophet is reported to have said: The better rows for men are front ones, and the worst are the last ones. The better rows for women are the last ones and the worst are the first ones.

This Hadith however does not clearly prohibit women from the mosque and only seeks to place women behind men in prayers and not intended to prevent women from praying next to men in most crowded mosque. This Hadith also need to be reconciled with another Hadith in which the Prophet is reported to have said: The first rows [of the prayers] were perceived as superior, specially the first one, for God and the angles bless the first row and the first few rows. To interpret this Hadith in a way that goes against the principle of human equality as enshrined by Islam cannot be acceptable for this is against the very spirit of Islam and principle of natural justice of which Islam is exponent. Prophet in all fairness cannot deny blessings to women keeping them in the rear rows. In fact some scholars got confused and compared the best rows with the prayer rows. In fact the Hadith has been explained in a misplaced context. The best row is the first row of the battle. In other words, the Prophet encouraged women to stay behind the lines during the battles. This becomes clear if the aforementioned Hadith is read together with Quran. Al Quran states: God loves those who fight in His cause in row, as if they were an ordered structure [61 (Surat As Saff): 4]. The problem with this particular Hadith arose as later compiler of Hadith categorized this Hadith with the chapter of prayer, salat.

That woman is not barred from the mosque is clear from the Hadith in which Prophet is reported to have said: O women. When the men prostrate themselves, then lower your gaze, so you do not see the private parts of the men due to tightness of their loin cloths.

[Isma'el]

Thats exactly what i meant by self made scholars....
How do u know how n when these hadith were related...its no good just realting hadiths if u dont know the reasons behind them..

As i said 99.9999999% of the ulama do agree its permissable..
The reason they say its "un-desirable" to safe gurard them..

There are wisdom behind the ruling of the ulama....which we may not sometime understand..

Ofcourse if one can safegurard them selfs then its ok, but as i said look at the fitna around us in this day n age...its better to be safe than sorry.

It is `A'isha (ra) - May Allah be well-pleased with her - that tended to forbid the women from going to the mosques, including for the five prescribed prayers let alone Tarawih. She gave her reason in the famous statement: "If the Messenger of Allah had seen what the women of our time do, he would have forbidden them to go to the mosques just as the Israelite women were forbidden." Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and the books of Sunan.

Majoroty of the hadith speak about getting permmision..?

did these sisters get permission to give out leaflets out side the mosque in the first isntant..

Some mosque's cant even cater for men let alone women, due to resource's money ,size etc.

[Curaezipirid]

what are all the rulings about defining a Mosque?
because if such a thing happened here in Australia, as it described in the first post; the women concerned would probably try to find a way to turn one among their own houses into a Mosque?

That would serve the men right; and also prove that Islam is correct; but only so long as it is possible for such a thing to happen readily. I guess the women only need find an Imam.

wasalam

[nishom]

I think its more important to worry about the FITNAH that non-practising sisters are doing. Dont worry about practising sisters who want to offer their prayers in the mosque. Most of the sisters who attend prayers in mosque wear HIJAB-what fitnah will they be causing by heading to the mosque, intent on praying to Allah?

The problem is not sisters going to mosque but sisters going to mosque without the knowledge of their husbands.

We should worry more about those sisters and brothers who get involved in all types of activities that are not in Islam, wearing inappropriate clothing, going to the wrong places such as nightclubs and having boy/girlfriends.

Also by saying

i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.

....are you saying that sisters should not leave their house, even for work and to seek knowledge by going to uni/islamic events/circles.

[S_87]

Some mosque's cant even cater for men let alone women, due to resource's money ,size etc.

:sl:

some, and yes that is understandable..but others? build big beautiful masjids top of the range, state of art, yet no woman allowed.

brother i understand what you are saying but im saying in this time, if youre gonna ban a woman from the masjid ban her from taking one step outside of her home. because out and about has much much much more fitnah...

[Isma'el]

fitna is just 1 off several reasons...

Sorry but i jst cant get my head round this" Why go to the mosque knowing ther might b a risk"

When reading at home is far BETTER.

[Ann]

I Think this hadith sum's everything up...!! If its better for the si8ster to pray at home then why go to the mosque, surly u get more rewards if its better at home.? then why deprive your self of the rewards..

I understand what your saying brother and even agree but still I think if they want to pray in the masjid they should be allowed to do so. Personally I like praying at home but there are times when I want to go to the masjid because I want to the hear the imam speak. Again though I think they could have gone about it differently or better yet, just go to a masjid that already has a womens section. I dont understand why they drove so far to go to this particular masjid knowing women were not allowed in.

I fear this debate could go on endlessly..so for me I think I'll let it alone now.:sl:

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumasalamu

I agree that it is a sure sign of foolhardiness for women to have approached attending any Mosque at which there was risk they could have been denied entry. But there are so many facts to the matter that are not here reported, none of us are really in any true situation of being able to find any adequate commentary therefore.

My point that could seem very radical about the women finding another Imam and establishing another Mosque is really only designed to highlight the extent to which we are unable to adequately comment. What seems to be a preposterous idea of a woman establishing Mosque under her kitchen table may have a real context somewhere in the world.

My own tendancy is to regard the story as an indication that there are women whom want to draw attention to the fact that they are feeling disabled by others in the Muslim community. What other context could we take the story in. But then is it that we need to address that context.

Mostly, as Muslims, we need to object to reports of the situations that a minority of Muslim women in 'the west' have found themselves in, of being wrongly discriminated against in their own community. When a minority of Muslims report such events it portrays all Muslims in the wrong light among those non-Muslims around such events. But if there are ever indications that such events are increasing in their severity, or women's complaints of intolerance, then the situation becomes one which all Muslims need redress.

Yet could it perhaps be that the problem can be accorded to the fact that there are decreasing numbers of men existing, and increasing numbers of women? Is it that women are facing marriage to kafir at the heart of such problems? I by no means want to suggest that such is the case in the blackburn incident; but only this day I am reading also about the Muslim woman in Germany whom wrote altogether too publically about being in a forced marriage. Why would any Muslim woman feel any need to speak out? If it seems that Muslim men are failing Muslim women; when we know better than to believe in such occurances; perhaps we need think to an alternative explaination.

I am not claiming to be able to offer a real explaination, and neither can I verify what I am suggesting; but truly we need to begin to consider what the conditions of marital relations are likely to be like for Muslim women when they outnumber men fifty to one. I only mean to suggest that we begin to consider that perhaps this process is already commenced. The question is are there already more male kafir than female and thereby preventing us determining that actual ratio of women to men? I would certainly rather be one in many wives of a single Husband, even in poverty, than be married to a kafir. But perhaps that is not true for all Muslim women. Perhaps what we need most to believe is that we need to provide that kafir are not dangerous company. It is certainly the case here in Australia that I have been most of all ill considered by kafir. They can be worse even than shaytan for failing to believe in their consequences.

InshaAllah all such problems between Muslim men and women can be resolved no matter how difficult the problems are to consider.

wasalam

[AvarAllahNoor]

If, however, women decide to go out for prayer at the mosques, they should neither dress nor perfume themselves in a manner that may attract the attention of men. At the mosques, it is an established tradition that women perform their prayers preferably in their own partition behind the rows of men.

So men would be also advised to not wear aftersahve, yes?:)

[Muezzin]

You know, I think we've strayed from the topic.

Again.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

I've been saying hte same - It would appear Allah does allow it, but some bigoted muslim men would rather they don't attend as they can't control their 'desires' :rollseyes

[AvarAllahNoor]

You know, I think we've strayed from the topic.

Again.

Sorry Muezzin:)

[Muezzin]

Sorry Muezzin:)

It's all right, I was referring to the thread in general.

A general notice for everyone: please discuss only the news story in question in this thread, and the issues of whether or not women are allowed in mosques in this thread

[glo]

I understand what your saying brother and even agree but still I think if they want to pray in the masjid they should be allowed to do so. Personally I like praying at home but there are times when I want to go to the masjid because I want to the hear the imam speak. Again though I think they could have gone about it differently or better yet, just go to a masjid that already has a womens section. I dont understand why they drove so far to go to this particular masjid knowing women were not allowed in.

I fear this debate could go on endlessly..so for me I think I'll let it alone now.:sl:

I imagine it must be quite important to hear the Imam speak about the Qu'ran and Islamic issues - especially when you are living alone, or you don't have many Muslims around you.

I love hearing people read from the Bible and talk about God's word in church, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

I guess you can get stuff from books, the radio or the Internet - but I imagine it's not quite the same ...

[Protected_Diamond]

:sl:

Im quite confused now. Im positive i've read loads of hadiths that state women are rewarded more if they pray at home so whats all this about? :rollseyes

:w:

[Curaezipirid]

Well as a single female I know that women need a place to gather in Islam. I am converted because I am fully persuaded in Qur'an and Allah and that Mohammed (Peace go with Him) has always been the last Prophet. Yet if there are not places women gather for worship then I am isolated. I don't want to go to places men gather as an unmarried woman.

wasalam

[Dawud_uk]

I imagine it must be quite important to hear the Imam speak about the Qu'ran and Islamic issues - especially when you are living alone, or you don't have many Muslims around you.

I love hearing people read from the Bible and talk about God's word in church, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

I guess you can get stuff from books, the radio or the Internet - but I imagine it's not quite the same ...

you'll have to ask my wife about this issue... as she is presently at the mosque listening to talks and i am the one sat at home...

Abu Abdullah

[ABWAN]

I am not even sure if anyone could react this way... I have a feeling perhaps this has nothing to do with the imam of the masjid or their committee.. On a jumuah salah, masjid is going to be crowded...and some people (in this case men) who *only* visit the masjid for Jumuah feel they are very pious and act their own way. Its sad that such acts by a few muslims (Allah knows if they are regular visitors to masjid) end up representing not just the whole of muslim community, but Islam itself. And its even saddening to realize that such acts smear Islam so much that Non muslims get a bad picture of it and end up doubting Islam and getting judgemental.

As to someone who asked about the rulings that makes a place a mosque.. please check here: http://www.albalagh.net/general/0074.shtml

Bascially a masjid if built will ALWAYS be a place of worship. Any temporary prayer rooms would be called a musallah.

[fatimah]

:cry: so sad that our muslim brothers would do such a thing.:w:

[therebbe]

equality at it's best...

[Kamilah]

equality at it's best...

:rollseyes ellaborate please?

[therebbe]

:rollseyes ellaborate please?

My point is that in all societies women do not have equal rights. We live in a generation where barbaric thinking of men to feel they are superior because of there gender should end. In reality it is no different than rascism. I mean really, discrimination because ones black or ones female... do you see a difference?

[~Stranger~]

and some people (in this case men) who *only* visit the masjid for Jumuah feel they are very pious and act their own way

:sl:

exactly!!!! :bravo: :thumbs_up

My point is that in all societies women do not have equal rights. We live in a generation where barbaric thinking of men to feel they are superior because of there gender should end. In reality it is no different than rascism. I mean really, discrimination because ones black or ones female... do you see a difference?

i think there r few articles around about equality between men and women and how its done in islam. i suggest u read it insha'allah (beezrat hashem)

:w:

[S_87]

:sl:

this issue has kinda been resolved. the police were involved the masjid opened its doors for a day etc etc

[Kamilah]

those of you who have a TV and live in the UK,
watch dispatches tonight at 9pm on channel 4

"Women and Jihad"

you can see for yourselves who these sisters work for

[Pk_#2]

AsalamuAlaykum,

tut tut @ th bro's for doin that

tut tut @ the sisters goin on a friday? like it's already packed hehe

Tc ALl :)

[Helena]

when i watched the news....

i was utterly shocked.....are women allowed to speak high in this tone? and stand outside and giving insights how masjids dnt allow them to pray?

dsnt this show...result that islam dsnt give equal access to women.....why create this actions...and result in this way...

[glo]

those of you who have a TV and live in the UK,
watch dispatches tonight at 9pm on channel 4

"Women and Jihad"

you can see for yourselves who these sisters work for

Can you post an internet link, if you find one after the programme has been transmitted?
I would be interested to watch it, but I don't have TV ...

Thanks! :)

[Pk_#2]

AsalamuAlaykum,

^^ same as Glo, i wana hear wah they are actually saying,

but astaghfirullah if they are shouting,

May Allah forgive the wrongdoers :)

Ameen!

[S_87]

:sl:
i didnt watch ..can someone give a brief on it?

[Kamilah]

its on tonight, at 8pm.

[Kamilah]

So did anybody watch the documentary???????

[Sunflower]

^^^ yes i did. what did u think of it? did u think their methods were effective??? personally - no

[ubaid]

there methods were disgusting, they were blatantley out to cause trouble, i feel sorry for them as they do not realise they have made complete fools out of muslims in the uk by acting like this

[Umar001]

It amazes me, how much muslims act on feeling, I never comprehend it.

With responses like:

"They should be shot"

And that is according to Islam?

"Theres no reasons to offer them escuses"

I thought we had to offer people escuses and benefit of doubt, someone remind me was it 70 escuses? Am I wrong?

And then we have the other side saying

"They were looking for a fight, all confrontational"

It hardly seems like that, confrontational? I doubt it, they only had two brothers there.

"They should have done this and that"

Do you know if they previously tried? Maybe they tried speaking to the council of the masjid?


All I say is that I thought in Islam we rule by the Shariah, at least in our hearts, saying someone should be shot, because they hit someone in the face, is that what the shariah taeches? or stating thatwe should not offer the people a benefit of doubt, is that Islam? Rather we were not there nor do we know the people involved personally.

InshaAllah, I hope Allah makes me more tolerant, ameen.

[glo]

Hi IsaAbdullah

I like your post, and I would give you reps if i hadn't already repped you elsewhere just a moment ago! ;D

I am assuming you watched the documentary? Is is worth watching?

Do you really think Muslims react more emotionally than non-Muslims?
Don't all people get very heated about things, and sometimes say stuff which may not be very beneficial? :?

I do agree that Muslims seem to react more emotionally when it comes to offending things being said and done against Islam per se or Muhammed in particular ...
Christians tend to take more of a 'God is big enough to deal with this situation' approach.
I am not saying either is necessarily right or wrong ... just different. (Although excessively emotional reactions can be perceived as irrational, and thereby lose their credibility. Would you agree?)

peace

[IzakHalevas]

Do you really think Muslims react more emotionally than non-Muslims?
Don't all people get very heated about things, and sometimes say stuff which may not be very beneficial?

Everyone gest heated about things, do you resort to violence when this occurs however? I do not.

[Muezzin]

Everyone gest heated about things, do you resort to violence when this occurs however? I do not.

Nor do I (and many, many other Muslims), and I implore the authorities to deal with those who do resort to violence.

[Dawud_uk]

not likely,

this is jackboot straws terroritory and these are his tame muslims, they wont take action against them or at least they would never take action against any but a few youths but no one important in the community.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Umar001]

Peace be upon ya Glo,

Hi IsaAbdullah

I like your post, and I would give you reps if i hadn't already repped you elsewhere just a moment ago! ;D

I am assuming you watched the documentary? Is is worth watching?

Howdy, lol @ reps, and I don't know if at the time of the post I had already watched the video. It is only worth watching, in my humble view if you would love to see a distorted kinda view of how muslims should act, and if you dont get fastruated easly.

Do you really think Muslims react more emotionally than non-Muslims?

I don't think so, I think everyone gets emotional about things dear to them, it is just that the things dear to Muslims, are publically spoken about alot more. But then again having said that when Jesus is talked about in a bad way christians seem more relaxed, I feel thats just at the bottom of the teaching nd the way people percieve their religion teaches them to deal with things.

Don't all people get very heated about things, and sometimes say stuff which may not be very beneficial? :?

Yes, but alot of people don't have teachings which are fundamental to their lives and that the wish to follow strictly, with regards to how to deal with alot of situations.

I do agree that Muslims seem to react more emotionally when it comes to offending things being said and done against Islam per se or Muhammed in particular ...
Christians tend to take more of a 'God is big enough to deal with this situation' approach.
I am not saying either is necessarily right or wrong ... just different. (Although excessively emotional reactions can be perceived as irrational, and thereby lose their credibility. Would you agree?)

peace

I do definetly agree, for example, with the Jerry Springer Opera thing, the Christians protesting just stood outside the theater with banners and so on, not causing much commotion, furthermore not alot of christians even went, near my area, I think muslims also hold believe G-d is big enough to deal with anything, but at the same time they still express their emotions because of how what they feel islam teaches them to do in such situations.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

There is a similar thread here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...annel-4-a.html

If there is nothing new to contribute, this thread may as well be closed.

:threadclo