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Muezzin
09-23-2006, 05:10 PM
Officials can't confirm bin Laden death report
Updated Sat. Sep. 23 2006 9:38 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Neither U.S. nor France officials can confirm a French newspaper report claiming al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden died last month in Pakistan.

Citing a leaked French secret service report, regional daily newspaper L'Est Republicain reported Saturday that Saudi Arabia was convinced bin Laden died of typhoid in Pakistan in late August.

The French government said it could not confirm the report and would investigate the intelligence leak.

"The information diffused this morning by the l'Est Republicain newspaper concerning the possible death of Osama bin Laden cannot be confirmed," said a Defence Ministry statement.

French President Jacques Chirac said the report "is in no way whatsoever confirmed"

He said he was "a bit surprised" by the leak, and has asked Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie to investigate how a document from France's DGSE intelligence agency was published in the press.

L'Est Republicain printed what it described as a copy of a confidential document from the DGSE (Direction Generale des Services Exterieurs).

It cited an uncorroborated report from Saudi secret services that the leader of the al Qaeda terror network had died.

The DGSE transmitted the document, dated Sept. 21, to Chirac and other top French officials, the newspaper said.

The report added that Saudi security services were pursuing further details, notably the place of bin Laden's burial.

"The chief of al Qaeda was a victim of a severe typhoid crisis while in Pakistan on August 23, 2006," the document says according to the report, adding that the leader's geographic isolation meant that medical assistance was impossible and that his lower limbs were allegedly paralyzed.

The report further said Saudi security services had their first information on bin Laden's alleged death on Sept. 4.

Meanwhile in Washington, CIA duty officer Paul Gimigliano said he could not confirm the DGSE report.

The Washington-based IntelCenter, which monitors terrorism communications, said it was not aware of any similar reports on the Internet.

"We've seen nothing from any al Qaeda messaging or other indicators that would point to the death of Osama bin Laden," IntelCenter director Ben N. Venzke told The Associated Press.

If it were true, al Qaeda would likely release information of his death fairly quickly, said Venzke, whose organization also provides counterterrorism intelligence services for the American government.

"They would want to release that to sort of control the way that it unfolds. If they wait too long, they could lose the initiative on it."

Reports suggesting that bin Laden was dead, wounded or seriously ill have surfaced over the years, more often during periods when no taped messages from the al Qaeda leader surfaced in the media. But none have proven to be accurate.

However, Saudi sources told CNN's Nic Robertson that they learned bin Laden has been ill with a water-borne disease for the past several weeks.

The IntelCenter said the last time it could be sure bin Laden was alive was June 29, when al Qaeda released an audiotape. In that recording, he eulogized the death of al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Iraq earlier that month.

In Pakistan, a senior official of that country's top spy agency told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that he could not confirm the French newspaper report.

The ISI, or Directorate of Inter-Service Intelligence, official said he believed the report could be fabricated.

U.S. Embassy officials in Pakistan and Afghanistan also said they could not confirm the report.

Gen. Henri Bentegeat, the French army chief of staff, said in a radio debate last Sunday that bin Laden's fate remained a mystery.

"Today, bin Laden is certainly not in Afghanistan," Bentegeat said.

"No one is completely certain that he is even alive."

With files from The Associated Press

Source
Hmm...
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IceQueen~
09-23-2006, 05:12 PM
hmm... May Allah have mercy on him if he has died...
(I had a dream that he did) dunno *unsure*
Reply

Maimunah
09-23-2006, 05:14 PM
salaam
ameen to the duaa.
wasalaam
Reply

MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-23-2006, 05:25 PM
is it tru :rollseyes i found out dis mornin i woz like "^o) huh really?"
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Muezzin
09-23-2006, 05:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
is it tru :rollseyes i found out dis mornin i woz like "^o) huh really?"
According to the article, no one really knows. At the most it's 'unconfirmed'.
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Woodrow
09-23-2006, 06:31 PM
If he dies quietly I doubt very much that anybody will ever know for certain. The only thing that may come out is that a person believed to be Osama has died. However, I doubt that there would ever be any definite proof.
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~Stranger~
09-23-2006, 06:35 PM
(I had a dream that he did)
:sl:
its said if u see someone dying in ur dream, then he/she will live a long life

:w:
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Keltoi
09-23-2006, 06:42 PM
It wouldn't break my heart if he was dead. I won't say that I hope he is dead, because that would be an un-Christian sentiment, but I wouldn't mourn his passing. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see another video tape sent to Al-Jazeera with Osama's face on it, just to counter the accusation that he is dead.
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Mawaddah
09-23-2006, 06:48 PM
So according to this report Usama died last month? How strange, because I recall reading an article sometime last year stating that Usama had died a natural death...something about liver problems or along that line...hmmm
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Ninth_Scribe
09-23-2006, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Marya
hmm... May Allah have mercy on him if he has died...
(I had a dream that he did) dunno *unsure*
I had the same dream... but that was over a month ago.

Ninth Scribe
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Samee
09-23-2006, 07:02 PM
:sl:

If he is alive, he will probably send a tape. But as Woodrow said, no will ever know if he dies quietly. He would be buried by Al-Qaeda operatives, and the USA would just keep searching.

:w:
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Ghazi
09-23-2006, 07:04 PM
:sl:

if this was true the US propaganda machine would be working over time by now.
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Keltoi
09-23-2006, 07:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ghazi
:sl:

if this was true the US propaganda machine would be working over time by now.
Nobody knows if this is true, it is a French intelligence report. If OBL isn't dead, then the Al-Qaeda propaganda machine will let us know sooner than later.
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S_87
09-23-2006, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mawaddah
So according to this report Usama died last month? How strange, because I recall reading an article sometime last year stating that Usama had died a natural death...something about liver problems or along that line...hmmm
:sl:

yh i heard this last year too:uhwhat
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Kittygyal
09-23-2006, 08:53 PM
salam.
Allah Hu A3lim!!!
w.salam
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The Ruler
09-23-2006, 08:55 PM
:sl:

so dat means attak on Afganistan stops :?

:w:
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Ninth_Scribe
09-23-2006, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by +*Glacier*+
:sl:

so dat means attak on Afganistan stops :?

:w:
Don't be silly, they'll just find someone else to be... it.

Ninth Scribe
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akulion
09-23-2006, 10:42 PM
for all we know it could be a ruse to get some "activity" out of the group

so they can ry and catch him

dunno

just a guess
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doodlebug
09-23-2006, 10:57 PM
They'll wait for the November elections to confirm it I bet.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-24-2006, 12:57 AM
I doubt he's dead. They're prolly jus saying it so they stop searching for him =D dunno lol.
Allahu Alam!
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Taliban
09-24-2006, 03:38 AM
huh funny like i trust the media,
i dont trust the western media,
and the Death is Haq, and if Sheikh Bin Laden is Dead, May allah's blessing be with him
and if he is alive me allah Protect him
Reply

Hijrah
09-24-2006, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Taliban
huh funny like i trust the media,
i dont trust the western media,
and the Death is Haq, and if Sheikh Bin Laden is Dead, May allah's blessing be with him
and if he is alive me allah Protect him
The first stance(2): (The Advice of Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Baaz (D.1420H) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin al-Khaarijee and A warning and Advice to all those who traverse his path)


Said Imaam Aboo Bakr al-Aajurree (d.360H) – rahimahullaah, “It is not permissible for the one who sees the uprising of a khaarijee who has revolted against the leader, whether he is just or oppressive - so this person has revolted and gathered a group behind him, has pulled out his sword and has made lawful the killing of Muslims - it is not fitting for the one who sees this, that he becomes deceived by this person’s recitation of the Qur‘aan, the length of his standing in Prayer, nor his constant fasting, nor his good and excellent words in knowledge when it is clear to him that this person’s way and methodology is that of the Khawaarij.”

Said Shaykhul-Islaam ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn ’Abdullaah Ibn Baaz (d.1420H) – rahimahullaah, “So my advice to al-Mas’aree, al-Faqeeh and Ibn Laadin and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allaah and to beware of His revenge and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allaah from whatever has preceded from them.”

A concise warning from Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin. The extremist takfeeree who rejoices in making takfeer mu’ayyin of the Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah and the Muslim rulers all in the name of Islaam. Ibn Laadin's disgusting, vermin-laden doctrine of mass-takfeer was not excluded from even the eminent Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah).

The Second stance(3): (Terrorism- Islam's Veiwpoint)


Islamic Fiqh Council, Saudi Arabia.(4) Source: Muslim World League Journal, Jumad al-Ula 1423/July 2002 CE

During its sixteenth session, which was held between 21-27 Shawwal 1422 H (5-10 January 2002), the Islamic Fiqh Council laid emphasis on the fact that extremism, violence, and terrorism have no connection whatsoever with Islam. In fact, they are manifestations of perilous acts with dangerous consequences, and an aggression and iniquity against the individual.

Whosoever carefully studies the two sources of the Shari'ah (Islamic
law), namely the Book of Allah [the Qur'an] and the Sunnah (Traditions) of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him), would discoverthat they are devoid of any import of extremism, acts of violence or terrorism, which imply carrying out aggression against others without a just cause.

Therefore, in order to draw an Islamic definition of terrorism that unites the vision and attitudes of all Muslims; and in order to clearly state this fact and highlight the danger of associating Islam with extremism and terrorism, the Islamic Fiqh Council presents the following definition of terrorism and Islam's attitude toward it both to the Muslims and the world at large.

Definition of Terrorism

Terrorism is an outrageous attack carried out either by individuals, groups or states against the human being (his religion, life, intellect, property and honour). It includes all forms of intimidation, harm, threatening, killing without just cause and everything connected with any form of armed robbery, hence making pathways insecure, banditry, every act of violence or threatening intended to fulfil a criminal scheme individually or collectively, so as to terrify and horrify people by hurting them or by exposing their lives, liberty, security or conditions to danger; it can also take the form of inflicting damage on the environment or on a public or a private utility or exposing a national or natural resource to danger.

All these are manifestations of the mischief in the land, Allah has prohibited Muslims from committing. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And seek not occasions for mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief" (28:77)

Hence Allah did not only enact deterrent punishment against terrorism, aggression and corruption, but considers these acts tantamount to waging war against Allah and His Messenger. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter" (5:33)

Obviously, in view of the enormity of such acts of aggression, which are viewed by the Shari'ah (Islamic law) as an act of war against the laws and the creatures of God, there is no stricter punishment anywhere in the manmade laws. Moreover, according to the Islamic Fiqh Council, there are various forms of terrorism, which include state terrorism, the most conspicuous illustration and the most heinous of which is practiced in Palestine today by the Israelis, and by the Serbs in Bosnia- Herzegovina and Kosovo.

According to the Islamic Fiqh Council, state terrorism is the most menacing to security and peace in the world, and, therefore, standing up against it is tantamount to self defense and striving in the cause of Allah.

Islam's Remedy for Extremism & Terrorism

In combating terrorism and protecting society against its evil consequences, Islam is a trail-blazer. Through clear-cut limitations that must not be trespassed, Islam urges the protection of human life, honour, property, religion and intellect. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"If any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong themselves as well as others" (2:229)

Accordingly, in furtherance of this honour bestowed upon mankind, Islam prohibit[s] man's injustice to his fellow man, and condemn[s] those who cause harm to people, not only in the Muslim world, but anywhere in the
world. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Say: The things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are; shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason." And: "When he turns his back, his aim everywhere is to spread mischief through the earth and destroy crops and progeny. But Allah loves not mischief. When it is said to him 'Fear Allah,' he is led by arrogance to (more) crime. Enough for him is Hell - an evil bed indeed to lie on" (7:33 & 2:205-206)

Furthermore, Islam ordered its adherents to keep away from anything that may cause turmoil among the people, and warned at the same time, against its evil consequences. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And fear tumult or oppression, which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong: And know that Allah is strict in punishment." (8:25)

In Islam, both the individual and the community are exhorted not only to tow the line of moderation, but likewise, to root out extremism and religious intolerance which are sure to destroy the mankind. The Prophet (peace be on him) said in a report by Imams Ahmad and Al-Nissaie:

"Beware of excesses in matters of religion. For, as a matter of fact, those before you were destroyed by religious immoderation"

Islam also addressed the issue of evil tendencies that are apt to lead to intimidation, terrifying, horrifying and killing without any just cause. The Prophet (peace be on him) said:

"A Muslim must not terrify a fellow Muslim"

And:

"Whoever points an iron rod towards his brother, the angels shall go on cursing him until he stopped, even if he (the victim) happens to be his full brother (from the sides of his father and mother)" (Sahih Muslim)

With regard to the Dhimmis (Non-Muslims living under Muslim protection), Islam ordered that they must be treated justly. It gave them rights and imposed duties on them. It gave them security in the Muslim world, and imposed blood-money and expiation for an act of killing committed against anyone among them. Allah says:

"If he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, blood-money shall be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed" (4:92)

Furthermore, in conformity with the saying of the Prophet (peace be on him), Islam prohibits the slaying of a Dhimmi living in the Muslim world.

"Whoever kills a person under the contract of protection shall never smell the scent of Paradise" (Ibn Majah)

Moreover, Islam does not forbid its followers from being charitable towards those who do not fight them or expel them from their homes. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

And:

"And let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do" (5:8)

In view of the foregoing, therefore, the Islamic Fiqh Council would like to make it public that the felony of taking away one life without a just cause is tantamount to killing all people, whatever the faith of the murdered or the murderer; and that punishments and retributions are solely the prerogative of the ruler, not of individuals or groups.

Jihad is not Terrorism

In Islam, Jihad is ordained to uphold right, repel injustice and establish justice, peace, security and clemency, with which the Prophet (peace be on him) was sent to take mankind out of darkness into light. More specifically, Jihad has been ordained to eliminate all forms of terrorism, and to defend the homeland against occupation, plunder and colonialism.

Jihad is waged against those who support others in driving out people out of their homes, as well as against those who are in breach of their covenants. Jihad is meant to avoid tempting away Muslims from their faith or restricting their freedom to conduct peaceful propagation of their religion. Allah said:

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are just"

And:

"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support others in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them in these circumstances that do wrong." (60:8-9)

Islam has crystal clear rules and provisions that forbid the killing of non-combatants, innocent persons, such as the elderly, women and children; pursuit of fleeing persons, slaying persons who have surrendered, injuring prisoners, or mutilating the bodies of the dead, or destroying structures and buildings that have no connection with combat.

Thus it is illogical to equate violence committed by usurpers and tyrants who violate human dignity, defile sanctuaries and plunder wealth, with the right of legitimate self-defense, exercised by the oppressed in asserting their legitimate right of self-determination. In view of the above, the Islamic Fiqh Council would like to call the attention of all nations, peoples and organizations of the world to the necessity of drawing a distinction between legitimate Jihad against aggression or oppression designed to establish truth and justice, and the act of violence which aims at occupation of land, encroaching on national sovereignty and terrifying civilian populations and turning them into refugees.

The third stance (5): (The section tackles many misconceptions and clarifies the Salafi stance against Terrorism)


Translated by Hassan As-Somali
17/06/06

O Muslims! Fear Allah And Don’t Sympathise With Zarqaawee
Excerpts taken from an article from Ash-Sharaq Al-Awsat
By Abdul Muhsin Al-‘Ubaykaan (A senior scholar from Saudi Arabia)

There is no doubt that every Muslim, who is eagerly concerned about their religion and enthusiastic to (protect) the reputation of their nation, is delighted to hear about the decline of a deviant ideology that is attributed to Islam, when in reality it does nothing but smear (the religions) true image.

A deviant Kharajite ideology that has declared the blood of the Muslims and innocent non-Muslims to be lawful game; it has relished in pronouncing Muslims to be infidels, and it has vigorously endeavoured to destroy and bomb. (An ideology) that has stained the image of Islam and the Muslims, and it has caused many evils which cannot be enumerated and cannot be calculated by any one person.

This Kharijite ideology has produced many ills. From them: this malicious onslaught against the Muslims in general- emanating from many different angles, assaults upon the methods of teaching practised in the Muslim lands, (it has been utilized) as a blockade to the Book and the Sunnah, occupation of Muslim lands, and the captivation of innocent people due to mere speculation. All of this has resulted from this chaos and confusion, and from the war between (the lunatics) of Al-Qaa’idah and certain countries.

Yes, the fact that this ideology has begun to vanish, its symbolic figures are being humiliated and its leaders are falling brings joy to the heart. But sadly we see some of the Muslims continuing to show sympathy to Az-Zarqaawee or to whoever will replace him. Az-Zarqaawee who adopted the wretched ideology of Al-Qaa’idah, this is no more than the belief of the Kharijite, Takfeeris; and it has not brought any benefit to the Muslims whatsoever.

These sympathisers feign blindness to these barbaric, criminal acts, perpetrated by Az-Zaqaawee and his organisation inside and outside of Iraq, that oppose (the laws) of the religion and that cannot be fathomed by sound intellectual reasoning. It is visible to everyone with two eyes to see that Zarqaawee’s actions are not only traceable to Iraq; rather they have spread to other places. This man has (monstrous) ambitions in many arenas; he has explicitly voiced his aspirations, in both speech and action. An example of this is the bombings that occurred in Jordan and massacred those inviolable souls.

Islam is totally innocent of these ideologies and misguided acts. Even Jihad in the path of Allah has stipulations and guidelines that have to be met.

Using the name of Islam and (a twisted) understanding of Jihad to spread anarchy in the ranks of the Muslims, declare their blood and wealth to be lawful, cause disunity and division, weaken their position, empower their opponents against them and blemish the appearance of Islam in the most awful manner- acts such as slaughtering a human by slicing their jugular vein and then showing this to millions through the media outlets- has led to some people fleeing from Islam and detesting the Muslims, because the activities of these weirdoes that have nothing to do with Islam or the Muslims.

The Fourth Stance: (The True Islaamic Stance towards the Sept. 11th
US Attacks)


Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee is one of the Scholars of al-Madeenah of whom Imaam Ibn Baaz once called a person of ‘uprightness, knowledge and sound 'aqeedah.’ The Shaykh speaks on the ruling in Islaam in regards to the happenings on Sept. 11th. He states ‘This is not permissible in the deen of Islaam’ and ‘This is something that wasn’t done by the Salaf’. He goes on to say ‘This is a form of oppression on Muslims and non-Muslims’.

The Shaykh requested that the Muslims in N. America make clear that these actions are not from Islaam by saying, ‘Muslims in America should make clear the Islaamic position on these actions and incur the people not to blindly follow the opinions of the Media’.

Q&A follows the admonition including questions about the Talibaan. From the answers the Shaykh mentioned ‘some people wish to do good for Islaam but because they have errors in ‘Aqeedah they do more harm’. The Shaykh mentioned that this issue is not clear; some of the names of the bombers mentioned by the media are names of dead people. The Shaykh also mentioned that if A Muslim did this, he is not a Kaafir but he is a sinner and one with deficiency in Eemaan.

Regarding those who are overjoyed with the Sept. 11th attack, the Shaykh said: ‘did you check with the Scholars before you rejoiced at these attacks, Fear Allaah and don’t follow your emotions, do not give a bad impression of Islaam’. The Shaykh mentioned ‘Do not sit with those people.’


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Footnotes:
1: Taken from various Sources
(2): http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj.../ibnlaadin.htm

(3): http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=60
(4): Origianal Source: Muslim World League Journal, Jumad al-Ula 1423/July 2002 CE
(5): http://www.troid.org/spotlights/terrorism.htm
(6): http://www.troid.org/audio/fataawaa/.../usattacks.htm
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Keltoi
09-24-2006, 04:11 AM
That took me awhile to read, but I'm glad that I did. Very important post.
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*Hana*
09-24-2006, 04:11 AM
Salam Alaikum:

I also read reports there was reason to believe he died in December 2001, from complications with diabetes. :rollseyes Imagine if those reports were true? :muddlehea

Anyway, who knows. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with this newest report.

Wasalam,
Hana
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Taliban
09-24-2006, 04:14 AM
Alahu akbar
and Many other of Islamic Scholars agree that Sheik Bin Laden is on Haq Jihad
and one of those islamic scholars is the Blind Sheikh ( from Egypt)
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Keltoi
09-24-2006, 04:14 AM
I would expect, if Osama is still alive, he will release a video holding up a newspaper from the U.K. or some other Western country, to show he is still alive in 2006.
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shudnt_have
09-24-2006, 04:18 AM
:sl:

Whatever u hear is a RUMOR, until you're presented with evidence. Then it becomes a FACT. I like to plan our my day based on facts.:giggling:
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Hijrah
09-24-2006, 04:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Taliban
Alahu akbar
and Many other of Islamic Scholars agree that Sheik Bin Laden is on Haq Jihad
and one of those islamic scholars is the Blind Sheikh ( from Egypt)
In other words, the same person who instigated the '93 WTC bombings ho Bin Ladin got a fatwa from out of bias....how ridiculous, how aout a scholar with less bias and correct 'aqeedah
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Trumble
09-24-2006, 07:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Taliban
Our Muslim brothers and sisters all over the world are suffering in the hands of Kufar mainly the westerns
They are currently suffering far more at the hands of fellow muslims, both in Iraq and Darfur. Of course, it's so much easier just to pretend that isn't happening in favour of the Islam versus US/Israel fantasy, isn't it?
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The Ruler
09-24-2006, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Don't be silly, they'll just find someone else to be... it.

Ninth Scribe
yh i was finkin de same fing...it was a sarcastic q ya kno :D:D:D:D:D

:peace:
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Sakeena
09-24-2006, 11:15 AM
Assalamu alaikum

Allah ( subhana wa ta'ala) knows best
Every soul shall taste death,
i don't agree with any of his ideologies so wether he does or does not will not make any difference to me.
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ManchesterFolk
09-24-2006, 01:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Marya
hmm... May Allah have mercy on him if he has died...
(I had a dream that he did) dunno *unsure*
:heated:

Why would you wish mercy on a killer?
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S_87
09-24-2006, 01:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
:heated:

Why would you wish mercy on a killer?
whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty :?
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Keltoi
09-24-2006, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty :?
Why are people still playing this "Osama is innocent" game? How many times does he have to take responsibility for it before you believe he did it? This is why I almost hope is captured alive, so a trial will prove his guilt. Then we will hear that the trial was fixed and Osama is still "innocent".
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north_malaysian
09-25-2006, 05:47 AM
If Osama Bin Laden really dead..... there would be another 1,000 Osama to come...

Whatsoever... I hope they stop killing innocent people and repent....
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S_87
09-25-2006, 11:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Why are people still playing this "Osama is innocent" game? How many times does he have to take responsibility for it before you believe he did it? This is why I almost hope is captured alive, so a trial will prove his guilt. Then we will hear that the trial was fixed and Osama is still "innocent".
no no no

i havent said hes innocent or guilty. ive just said you cant blame him until you know 100% hes done something!
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Geronimo
09-25-2006, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by +*Glacier*+
:sl:

so dat means attak on Afganistan stops :?

:w:
Nope Taliban still there. Still gotta wipe out that scum
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Ninth_Scribe
09-25-2006, 02:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I hope they stop killing innocent people and repent....
They aren't about to do that because they're only fighters. Zarqawi had already taught me this: If you want the fighters to stop this, you have to go after the scholar who gave these fighters the decree sanctioning the killing of innocents in the name of Holy War. If we can beat that scholar in a fair debate, he can reverse the decree and Osama bin Laden will obey it.

This is what the deal is in terms of innocence or guilt.

Ninth Scribe
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Geronimo
09-25-2006, 02:23 PM
If he died he died of Typhoid:

After infection, symptoms include:

a high fever from 39 °C to 40 °C (103 °F to 104 °F) that rises slowly
chills
bradycardia (slow heart rate)
weakness
diarrhea
headaches
myalgia (muscle pain), not to be confused with the more severe muscle pain in Dengue fever, known as "Breakbone fever."
lack of appetite
constipation
stomach pains
in some cases, a rash of flat, rose-colored spots called "rose spots"
in some cases, loss of hair resulting from the prolonged high fever
extreme symptoms such as intestinal perforation or hemorrhage, delusions and confusion are also possible
Meaning he died a slow gruesome and painful death. Good. Not only does he died a painful death he doesn't get martyr status because he didn't die at the hands of the evil Americans
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Ninth_Scribe
09-25-2006, 02:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
If he died he died of Typhoid:

Meaning he died a slow gruesome and painful death. Good. Not only does he died a painful death he doesn't get martyr status because he didn't die at the hands of the evil Americans
You're missing the point. Osama bin Laden is the equivilent of a general. If you wanted to stop the war in Iraq, killing General Caldwell would accomplish nothing. We would have to take on Bush because he commands the armies. We need to take on the scholar who made the decree that enabled 911 to happen in the first place! Not the armies who simply obeyed him.

As for your 'ill will' toward bin Laden, Zarqawi died a Martyr's death... fully and completely... since the debate over the use of suicide belts was altogether avoided because, for that one moment in time just prior to the blast, he took his vest off and walked away from it. But that won't change anyone's opinion of him though, will it?

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Geronimo
09-25-2006, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
You're missing the point. Osama bin Laden is the equivilent of a general. If you wanted to stop the war in Iraq, killing General Caldwell would accomplish nothing. We would have to take on Bush because he commands the armies. We need to take on the scholar who made the decree that enabled 911 to happen in the first place! Not the armies who simply obeyed him.

As for your 'ill will' toward bin Laden, Zarqawi died a Martyr's death... fully and completely... since the debate over the use of suicide belts was altogether avoided because, for that one moment in time prior to the blast, he took his vest off. That won't change anyone's opinion of him though, will it?

Ninth Scribe
I get your point but bad analogy. Going after Bush would accomplish nothing because of the chain of succesion. You being from MA I don't have to explain what that is. As for confronting the spiritual leader. We have him right now underneath lock and key. We call him the "blind sheik"
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Ninth_Scribe
09-25-2006, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
I get your point but bad analogy. Going after Bush would accomplish nothing because of the chain of succesion. You being from MA I don't have to explain what that is. As for confronting the spiritual leader. We have him right now underneath lock and key. We call him the "blind sheik"
Agreed, bad analogy, but that was for the foreign viewers. The "blind sheik" heh? We have him in our possession? Good! I'm going to see about paying him a visit ~ and then I'll see what this decree of his is made of.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Geronimo
09-25-2006, 03:07 PM
actually his name is Omar Abdel-Rahman:

Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman (Arabic: عمر عبد الرحمن) (born May 3, 1938) is a blind Egyptian Muslim cleric who is currently serving a life sentence at the Federal Administrative Maximum Penitentiary hospital in Florence, Colorado, United States.
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Ninth_Scribe
09-25-2006, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
actually his name is Omar Abdel-Rahman:
Perfect... and thank you for this.

Ninth Scribe
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Geronimo
09-25-2006, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Perfect... and thank you for this.

Ninth Scribe
anytime
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Helena
09-26-2006, 09:21 AM
did he die in the month of ramadan? or................
Reply

Ali_slave of Allah
09-26-2006, 09:51 AM
nobody is still sure that he is dead or Alive
Reply

searcheroftruth
09-27-2006, 12:00 AM
does anyone know if this guy exists or have you all been eating up what the
goverments of the west and there media have been telling you.
Reply

Keltoi
09-27-2006, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searcheroftruth
does anyone know if this guy exists or have you all been eating up what the
goverments of the west and there media have been telling you.
lol....
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S_87
09-27-2006, 11:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Nope Taliban still there. Still gotta wipe out that scum
why? what did they do wrong?
if usama bin laden had been handed over there would have been no war right? supposedly...
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Keltoi
09-27-2006, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
why? what did they do wrong?
if usama bin laden had been handed over there would have been no war right? supposedly...
Actually, that is probably accurate. If the Taliban would have handed over Bin Laden and ceased its support of Al-Qaeda training grounds inside Afghanistan, the war more than likely wouldn't have happened. However, I think the Afghan people are much better off now than if the U.S. hadn't gone into Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai may not be perfect, but he is doing the best he can to improve the lives of Afghans. In all of this bloodshed and hatred in the region, Afghanistan probably has the best chance of creating a truly representative government, and one that works for the benefit of its people.
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Ninth_Scribe
09-29-2006, 04:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
actually his name is Omar Abdel-Rahman:
Why does everyone have to get in my way?

I did want to debate with this scholar and, according to the terms of religious debate as defined by Azrael, he would have to be released and fully in his own element for that purpose. Otherwise it could be argued that any reversal of the decree was made under duress. Obviously this was a problematic request to begin with since I'm in no position to guarantee I'd win the debate, but this Hamza Al Muhajir - just blew what little chance I had for this right out the window!

Why!?

Ninth Scribe
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ishkabab
09-29-2006, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Stranger~
:sl:
its said if u see someone dying in ur dream, then he/she will live a long life

:w:
Yes ive heard the same....:D inshAllah its true
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Ninth_Scribe
09-29-2006, 06:56 PM
Reliable sources confirmed that Osama bin Laden is alive and well.

Stayed tuned and you'll all be hearing from him.

Ninth Scribe
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Keltoi
09-29-2006, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Reliable sources confirmed that Osama bin Laden is alive and well.

Stayed tuned and you'll all be hearing from him.

Ninth Scribe
How wonderful, we all get another Al-Qaeda video full of threats and commentary on current events. Maybe they will even spend more on production and give us a weather report as well.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-30-2006, 12:22 AM
weather report lol.
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Zulkiflim
09-30-2006, 02:30 AM
Salaam,

If he is dead then Inalilhirajioon...

If he is not then ,give thanks to Allah for every day,every second,every heartbeat..

And be thankful for the last hearbeat.
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Wahid
09-30-2006, 02:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
lol....
i agree with you there, delusions are not the answer
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Najiullah
09-30-2006, 03:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Wahid
i agree with you there, delusions are not the answer
very true :)
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Andaraawus
09-30-2006, 03:13 AM
Allah knows best, anyways Usamah is our brother in faith no matter what the proganda says, only Allah knows his bad deeds, i still think the set him up.
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The Ruler
09-30-2006, 01:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Andaraawus
Allah knows best, anyways Usamah is our brother in faith no matter what the proganda says, only Allah knows his bad deeds, i still think the set him up.
popaganda :? :?

i dunno...but i heard that that man is still alive...i dont relly care much anyway...i mean how much can we trust the media anyway...what if all of this story is a fabrication?

we would never know *sigh*

:w:
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Keltoi
09-30-2006, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by +*Glacier*+
popaganda :? :?

i dunno...but i heard that that man is still alive...i dont relly care much anyway...i mean how much can we trust the media anyway...what if all of this story is a fabrication?

we would never know *sigh*

:w:
If the "story" you are referring to is the "Osama is dead" one, that didn't come from the media, it came from French intelligence.
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 04:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
weather report lol.
It's all true! They do give weather reports, Al Qaeda style! Abu Musab Al Zarqawi did that once, calling hurricane Katrina a Soldier of Allah!

If he only knew then what he knows now, lol.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searcheroftruth
does anyone know if this guy exists or have you all been eating up what the
goverments of the west and there media have been telling you.
He fully exists and his cause has been well established, both in terms of his history and his ideology. However the U.S. government does not see eye-to-eye with me in terms of his importance, his role and our part in this drama. Because they are the government, the media has only been allowed to release a rather shattered version of his history (only the bits and pieces of it they can use to further their case against him). They did this to Zarqawi too. I've been piecing it all back together using the same technique I used to dig out Azrael's records, chronology - which renders the matter in an entirely different light. From what I can tell, this isn't a very serious threat, it could be resolved (and almost was once upon a time). President Bush is just being a drama queen.

Ninth Scribe
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