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Hajar
09-29-2006, 08:59 PM
By Shahid Ali Khan
The Saudi Gazette

RIYADH
EMINENT scholar of comparative religion Dr. Zakir Naik has invited Pope Benedict XVI for an open inter-faith dialogue.

The Pope’s recent statement, which included a quote from a 14th century Byzantine emperor, sparked outrage in the Muslim world.
In his latest efforts to calm down the Muslim anger the Pope invited diplomats from 20 Islamic countries at his summer residence in south of Rome.

This extraordinary gathering was seen as the latest effort by Benedict XVI to quell the furor stirred two weeks ago by controversial remarks he made about Islam. He is attempting to channel the emotion into what he calls an authentic and respectful dialogue.

Dr. Naik sees the Pope’s statement on Islam as pre-planned. “He (the Pope) knew very well what he was speaking at University of Regensburg in Germany on September 12,” he said.

“The Pope’s apology to the Muslims was at all not an apology rather it was putting salt on the wounds,” said Dr. Naik, adding that the Pope should have explicitly apologized and retracted his statement.

Benedict XVI seems to be toeing the same line of neo-con as that of President George Bush, he said.

Dr. Naik said if the Pope wants to initiate an authentic dialogue then he is more than willing to participate in such an inter-faith debate.

“I am more than willing to participate in the inter-faith dialogue with Pope Benedict XVI. I am ready on any topic he (the Pope) wishes as long as it focuses on Qur’an and the Bible,” Dr. Naik said.

He said he can go to Rome or Vatican to meet the Pope.

“I can go to Rome and to Vatican on my own expense if an Italian visa is arranged for me,” he told The Saudi Gazette Wednesday after delivering his lecture on “20 most common questions about misconceptions of Islam,” organized by Sri Lankan Embassy in Riyadh, Wednesday and attended by a number of ambassadors, diplomatic staff and members of the Sri Lankan community.

Dr. Naik during the past three years has delivered over 600 lectures in the US and Canada.

“I am absolutely ready for an open and public debate with the pope under live international TV coverage,” he said.

Let the 1.3 billion Muslims and 2 billion Christians around the world listen to the debate based on equal slot of time allotted to both sides, he said. “It is not only a debate but also a question and answer session allowing the people to ask queries,” he said.

He said he is not in favor of closed-door meeting with the Pope, as was suggested by his predecessor Pope John Paul II, when South African-based Islamic scholar Ahmed Deedat invited him for open dialogue, he said.

“Pope John Paul told Shaikh Deedat to come to his cabin for a debate,” he said and added why does the inter-faith dialogue be held behind closed doors?

Dr. Naik said the best way to counter the onslaught on Islam is that the Muslims should have their own media.

“Unfortunately, most of the international media is controlled by the Western (lobby). Unless you (Muslims) have your own media they (Westernerns) can very conveniently convert black into white, day into night, a hero into a villain and a villain into a hero,” he said.

Dr. Naik, who has launched his own religious satellite channel called Peace TV, said Muslims do have their own media but what he meant by international media is similar to the Time and Newsweek and TV channels such as the BBC and CNN, when Muslims can project their views and convey the message in right perspective. “I have a future plan to launch a news channel,” he said.

He said there are at least 100 Muslims that he knew, who can take such an initiative and launch at least 10 satellite channels. People should not wait for Muslims organizations such as IIRA or OIC to take steps in this direction, he said.

“Any individual businessman can take the initiative if Muslim bodies such as OIC or IIRA are not coming forward in this direction,” he said.

Dr. Naik has also endorsed former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Muhamamd’s views that the Muslims should stop to operate US dollar-denominated bank accounts. “I have been preaching (that) Muslims should stop dealing in dollar,” he said.

He also called on the Muslim world to launch an Islamic currency to counter dealing in dollar. Muslim countries should not peg their currencies to the dollar. “By that time the individuals and businessmen should stop dealing in dollar,” he said.

He said he has been mobilizing the people wherever he goes asking them not to keep dollar accounts or even the currency. The moment you exchange dollars you simply convert that amount with any currency such as riyal, dirham, dinar or be it yen or euro “but not to keep in dollar-denomination account,” he said.

Source:http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index...560&Itemid=116
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-29-2006, 09:08 PM
:sl:

Allahu Akbar. If the Pope accepts he will be humiliated and if he rejects he will be humiliated. Allah has spoken the Truth:

3: 112. Indignity is put over them wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of Allah, and destruction is put over them...

25: 9. See how they coin similitudes for you (O Muhammad), so they have gone astray, and they cannot find a (Right) Path.

10.
Blessed be He Who, if He will, will assign you (O Muhammad) better than (all) that, - Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise) and will assign you palaces (i.e. in Paradise).

May Allah cause him to accept this and by way of this debate may Allah guide many to Islam.
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wilberhum
09-29-2006, 09:51 PM
[Moderators Comment: Remain On Topic. Start a new Topic If You Have Something Off Topic To Say]
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InToTheRain
09-29-2006, 10:44 PM
:sl:

Thanks for share Sis.
TAKBIR! Allah-Huakbar!

:w:
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Joe98
09-29-2006, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by Hajar
The Pope’s recent statement, sparked outrage in the Muslim world.

The Muslim world never debated the subject the Pope spoke of and therefore a debate with a cleric would be of no use.
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ACC
09-30-2006, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
The Muslim world never debated the subject the Pope spoke of and therefore a debate with a cleric would be of no use.
I agree, although I would love for the Pope to accept since I think he would handle this person rather easily. Of course, I am a little biased :D .
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Trumble
09-30-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by Ähmed

Allahu Akbar. If the Pope accepts he will be humiliated and if he rejects he will be humiliated.
Why? I'm quite sure the Pope can hold his own in "inter-faith dialogue" (which isn't quite the same thing as "debate") if it were held.

As to rejecting, believe it or not the Pope is a very busy man. There is no reason he should enter into any sort of dialogue with anybody (short of the odd head of state) who says they want it, "muslim scholar" or not.
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Zulkiflim
09-30-2006, 02:28 AM
Salaam,


Pls ,,he is an old man,he should be be placed on such stress.

I would say just give Zakir Naik a column in the Catholic weekly...LOL..

So that the Pope as well as many otehr catholics can hear from a historical standpoint..
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ACC
09-30-2006, 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,


Pls ,,he is an old man,he should be be placed on such stress.

I would say just give Zakir Naik a column in the Catholic weekly...LOL..

So that the Pope as well as many otehr catholics can hear from a historical standpoint..
Ah, I can tell you are also biased. Since when do we consider old people unitelligent?.....only when it is convenient for us.

Give that man a column on Catholic weekly, no problem. How about giving the Pope some time in Saudi Arabia :okay: ?
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Keltoi
09-30-2006, 03:46 AM
Pope Benedict is a very intelligent man, and I would actually be very interested to see this discussion. However, my gut tells me that there would be more "controversy" and more nuns would get shot in the back, so what is the point really? Sorry if that seemed harsh, but I'm getting fairly tired of this whole affair.
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ACC
09-30-2006, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Pope Benedict is a very intelligent man, and I would actually be very interested to see this discussion. However, my gut tells me that there would be more "controversy" and more nuns would get shot in the back, so what is the point really? Sorry if that seemed harsh, but I'm getting fairly tired of this whole affair.
Very true. It is difficult to have an open and full dialogie if you will be restricted as to what you can say.
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S_87
09-30-2006, 01:09 PM
:sl:

hehe i wanna see this happen inshaAllah
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Malaikah
09-30-2006, 01:14 PM
Dr. Naik during the past three years has delivered over 600 lectures in the US and Canada.
:sl:

wow mashaallah thats a lot!!

oh man i hope the pope accepts, that would be wicked!!
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Malaikah
09-30-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
The Muslim world never debated the subject the Pope spoke of and therefore a debate with a cleric would be of no use.
Funny enough- when the muslims want to talk about it, the west doesnt want to listen. :rollseyes

Originally Posted by ACC
I agree, although I would love for the Pope to accept since I think he would handle this person rather easily. Of course, I am a little biased :D .
Yes, the pope has shown how very knowledgeable of Islam he is, hasnt he? :rollseyes
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Muhammad
09-30-2006, 01:23 PM
Greetings,

However, my gut tells me that there would be more "controversy" and more nuns would get shot in the back, so what is the point really?
If I remember correctly, Muslim outrage is caused by attacks on Islam, not respectful discussions. And isn't the whole point of having it live to avoid any "restrictions"?
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ACC
09-30-2006, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
Funny enough- when the muslims want to talk about it, the west doesnt want to listen. :rollseyes



Yes, the pope has shown how very knowledgeable of Islam he is, hasnt he? :rollseyes
As much as iman's that trash Christianity, which seems very often.

As for the first quote, it seems that there is a disconnect on both sides. Each side percieves the other as not listening.
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*Hana*
09-30-2006, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
As much as iman's that trash Christianity, which seems very often.
Peace ACC:

Do you have a quote from an Iman that has openly bashed Christianity? I would be interested in reading about it.

Thanks and Peace,
Hana
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The Ruler
09-30-2006, 01:57 PM
:sl:

i hope that they air it somewhere itd be great ta watch :happy: :thumbs_up

:w:
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ACC
09-30-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Peace ACC:

Do you have a quote from an Iman that has openly bashed Christianity? I would be interested in reading about it.

Thanks and Peace,
Hana
Well, the most immediate one would be the al qaida guy yesterday. Just do a search.
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*Hana*
09-30-2006, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
Well, the most immediate one would be the al qaida guy yesterday. Just do a search.
Al Qaeda?? A spokesperson from Al Qaeda??? You're using a group you deem as terrorists to say they now speak on behalf of all Imams? How about a quote from an Imam not affiliated with Al Qaeda.

I could do a search, but you made the claim so I'm asking where you got that information.

Thanks and peace,
Hana
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Muezzin
09-30-2006, 03:48 PM
How I wish people would discuss things more rather than getting violent.

Originally Posted by ACC
Well, the most immediate one would be the al qaida guy yesterday. Just do a search.
Heh, that's as silly as me saying that a Klansman is representative of the majority of Christian clerics. Come on.
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------
09-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Dat guy (Zakir Naik) rocks! Takbirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!
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InToTheRain
09-30-2006, 04:07 PM
Really doubt it gonna happen :cry:

He will reject it...just like bush rejected Ahmadinejad...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5295550.stm

I hope he is not afraid and takes the easy way out like Bush...
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------
09-30-2006, 04:10 PM
Insha'Allah it will happen. Insha'Allah.
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`Abd al-Azeez
09-30-2006, 04:13 PM
:sl:

I think the Pope has been attacked enough lol, I don't think its gonna happen tho, I read somewhere the Ahmed Deedat [r] also challenged the Pope to debate once
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Zulkiflim
09-30-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
Ah, I can tell you are also biased. Since when do we consider old people unitelligent?.....only when it is convenient for us.

Give that man a column on Catholic weekly, no problem. How about giving the Pope some time in Saudi Arabia :okay: ?
Salaam,

Obviously you consider old as being unintelligent..

i said do not give the Pope any stress casue he is old.
For the aged,it is not about itnellect but the capcity to argue and what emotional outburst can do to a OLD AND DELICATE SYSTEM,,,

Why should the Pope have an article in Saudi Arabia?

Did saudi Arabia insult Christianity? or Catholics?

Or did the pope insult?

So we want the Pope to learn,not thru pressure but thru discourse.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-30-2006, 04:20 PM
:sl:

These people know that if they enter a debate, all their lies will unveiled. So they avoid it with petty excuses because they love their seat of power. They dont realize that death will strip them of everything. Pitiful.

6: 44. So, when they forgot (the warning) with which they had been reminded, We opened to them the gates of every (pleasant) thing, until in the midst of their enjoyment in that which they were given, all of a sudden, We took them to punishment, and lo! They were plunged into destruction with deep regrets and sorrows.
45.
So the roots of the people who did wrong were cut off. And all the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns, and all that exists).



:w:
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ähmed
Allahu Akbar. If the Pope accepts he will be humiliated and if he rejects he will be humiliated. Allah has spoken the Truth.
What I would give to see that day come! The Vatican has been a thorn in my side from it's very beginning! It's about time!

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Al Qaeda?? A spokesperson from Al Qaeda???
Hana
According to~~~ drags out the ancient rules book~~~ the terms of the Council of the Princes and Elders, the debate should be conducted by the parties who have the most grievance between them. It should not be conducted by moderates who could care less which way the feather falls. I say, bring em!

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
Well, the most immediate one would be the al qaida guy yesterday.
Yes, well that back-fired on him, big time!

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ähmed
:sl:

These people know that if they enter a debate, all their lies will unveiled. So they avoid it with petty excuses because they love their seat of power. They dont realize that death will strip them of everything. Pitiful.
Reps for you... that's a great reality check!

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
09-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
Very true. It is difficult to have an open and full dialogie if you will be restricted as to what you can say.
Reviews the rule book... this is why the debates are held in private. To minimize humiliation and controversy, as opposed to turning the event into the equivilent of a reality TV show. Also, the debate would not be over with in 24 hours. Some of the ones I've tracked took years to conclude!

This probably explains why the scholars stopped doing it. You'd have to feel so upset, you'd be willing to devote a good portion of your life to the dispute, and spend all those years locked up behind closed doors with the very people you hated.

On the other hand, it would definately discourage frivolous disputes, since this is what is expected from anyone who makes accusation against another.

Ninth Scribe
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*Hana*
09-30-2006, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
According to~~~ drags out the ancient rules book~~~ the terms of the Council of the Princes and Elders, the debate should be conducted by the parties who have the most grievance between them. It should not be conducted by moderates who could care less which way the feather falls. I say, bring em!

Ninth Scribe
What exactly are you talking about??? :rollseyes
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Eric H
10-01-2006, 03:37 PM
Greetings and peace Ahmed,

If the Pope accepts he will be humiliated
I am a Catholic and feel saddened by the Pope's lecture that has caused unnecessary friction between Islam and Christianity. I hope he is able to rebuild any bridges of friendship that have been strained by his recent lecture; but only time will tell.

I recently listened to a talk by Dr Naik, and he said he is a man of peace and he also wants peace. I believe that if this is truly the case then he will find ways to make peace with the pope despite what has been said.

Islam is a religion of peace; Christianity is a religion of peace, the same God hears all our prayers. Somehow we need to continue to search for interfaith friendships despite human failings.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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doodlebug
10-01-2006, 04:07 PM
I doubt the Pope would ever take on this challenge. He definitely has an agenda, which is evident by the quote that caused the controversy, but I don't think an open and unrestricted live debate between he and a Muslim scholar is in his immediate plans. I do hope he proves me wrong but I remain unhopeful.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-01-2006, 04:11 PM
Oh wow...I wanna see! That'd be cool =)
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Quruxbadaan
10-01-2006, 04:44 PM
salaam

Pope shouldn’t be making statements against Islam unless he wants to or is willing to discuss his statements on T.V with a man who is just as "Intelligent" as he is

All I see here is that when muslims want to discuss the situation and try to set the record straight about some of these misquoted verses from the Quran that everybody is generically programmed to regurgitate than some intimidation comes to play and the world wants to back off

And Im sure the pope is “intelligent” so intelligent that he makes uninformed statements about Islam? Well if you gonna make statements/ reiterate other peoples uninformed statements I say that you have the common “knowledge” to expect a reaction and expect to explain justify the reasons for repeating something offensive about the religion of Haaq
And in the same breath claiming that you had other intentions for repeating such a thing

I would love to see Dr. Zakir Naik’s proposal exepted it would be an eventful discussion
I think it would be very useful to have it id love to see how the pope “handles” the Shaik
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Ninth_Scribe
10-01-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
What exactly are you talking about??? :rollseyes
It's a very ancient system that used to be in place to deal with scholarly contests and disputes. I've been collecting fragments of the ancient records to resurrect what I call the Book of Generations and came across bits and pieces of this book... portions of it that had been inserted into other records.

Apparently the concept of scholarly interpretations leading to disputes, isn't new at all - they (the ancestors) have been dealing with these problems for quite some time and they developed a rather ingenious method for resolving them. But, judging from the condition of the records that are left, a war or some other major calamity led to the book's destruction.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
10-01-2006, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Pope shouldn’t be making statements against Islam unless he wants to or is willing to discuss his statements on T.V with a man who is just as "Intelligent" as he is.
I'm all for the debate, but I wouldn't want it televised. I'm a little more than peeved about these airings of dirty laundry involving common people, politicians, and especially the military!

Ninth Scribe
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mahdisoldier19
10-01-2006, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
I agree, although I would love for the Pope to accept since I think he would handle this person rather easily. Of course, I am a little biased :D .
Handle him easily? You must be Very ignorant and dumb no offence, have you seen Naiks past debates? Where was your christian priests then? They were so Ashamed of themselves that one man at the end of the debate returned back to Islam.
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Eric H
10-01-2006, 10:46 PM
Greetings and peace to you all

I would like to ask what do you think would be achieved through a television debate?

Would it be to try and build interfaith relations and friendships, to say sorry and ask for forgiveness for all past wrongs.

Or would you see it as having some kind of competitive agenda to prove who is best?

In the spirit of seeking greater interfaith friendships

Eric
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doodlebug
10-02-2006, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace to you all

I would like to ask what do you think would be achieved through a television debate?

Would it be to try and build interfaith relations and friendships, to say sorry and ask for forgiveness for all past wrongs.

Or would you see it as having some kind of competitive agenda to prove who is best?

In the spirit of seeking greater interfaith friendships

Eric
I think just an interfaith dialogue would be great instead of the one sided sling shot comments with no chance for rebuttal. Knowing the Catholic church all too well, since that is where I reverted from, though, I highly doubt it will happen. They don't much like to be confronted.
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north_malaysian
10-02-2006, 02:35 AM
in+erfai+h dialogue and in+erfai+h deba+e ARE 2 differen+ +hings.....
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Skillganon
10-02-2006, 03:38 AM
Let's not make this thread into "Who's better than Who."

I doubt the pope will accept an open debate with the Quran and the bible as the foucus.

I will be suprised if he accepts it. (Same thing I said in the "Christian forum")
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Bittersteel
10-02-2006, 04:04 AM
these dialogues are fruitless.
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Ninth_Scribe
10-02-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Emir Aziz
these dialogues are fruitless.
Only because they haven't been given correct instructions... both parties in the dispute must agree to remain engaged in the issue until there is agreement between them both

and

the results must be recorded in both their records.

What makes the modern version of religious debate so pointless is the fact that the scholars don't engage until they've reached an agreement (they're allowed to quit) and neither party records the results into their own records.

I also feel the issues aren't given any reasonable degree of dignity (privacy).

But, what do I know?

Ninth Scribe
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Pygoscelis
10-10-2006, 06:13 AM
A debate? With the Pope? Isn't that very idea kind of laughable?

The Catholics claim the Pope to be infallable on issues of faith. So there is really nothing to debate there as far as the Pope is concerned. He is right and anybody who disagrees is wrong. Full stop. Debate would be meaningless. The Pope simply isn't open to it (and can't be even if he wanted to be), due to the very nature of his position. Am I wrong about this?

As for debate on other issues, why would the Pope be the one to debate? He's got no special knowledge or standing. He's no expert on anything aside from his own religion.
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Rabi'ya
10-10-2006, 07:24 AM
:sl:

id like to see if this ever actually happens - i doubt it tho :(

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-10-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
A debate? With the Pope? Isn't that very idea kind of laughable?
Nope. It would expose the lies of Christianity if the Pope debated.

The Catholics claim the Pope to be infallable on issues of faith. So there is really nothing to debate there as far as the Pope is concerned. He is right and anybody who disagrees is wrong. Full stop. Debate would be meaningless. The Pope simply isn't open to it (and can't be even if he wanted to be), due to the very nature of his position. Am I wrong about this?
He isnt open to it in the open in front of everyone. The previous Pope agreed to debate with Ahmed Deedat as long as it was behind closed doors so that the world wont know of his and his religion's falsehood. Why doesnt the Pope show to the world that he is "infallible"? Or is he too arrogant to do that? He makes a comment and then when he is called to justify his words he is going to back out? He's just afraid that his and chrisitianity's lies will be exposed. So dear they hold their seats of power.

As for debate on other issues, why would the Pope be the one to debate? He's got no special knowledge or standing. He's no expert on anything aside from his own religion.
So let him debate on his own religion? If he refuses, then he is simply to arrogant or he's afraid that he will lose his position in the eyes of the people and all the lies be exposed.
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Eric H
10-10-2006, 02:57 PM
Greetings in peace Ähmed;

It would expose the lies of Christianity if the Pope debated.
If there was to be a television debate with the purpose of trying to accuse the other side of having a faith based on lies, then I believe this would harm both Christianity and Islam. The media would love this kind of conflict, and would add fuel to the fire.

Both religions claim to be a religion of peace, forgiveness and mercy, we are asked not to make judgements on other people. Any debate between Islam and Christianity should reflect these qualities.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric
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Eric H
10-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Greetings and peace to you all,

I am a Catholic and I do not look on the Pope as being infallible when he teaches. For a teaching by a pope or ecumenical council to be recognized as infallible, the teaching must make it clear that it is definitive and binding. I believe there have only been seven occasions in the history of the church when this has happened, the last was in 1950.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_i..._infallibility

In the spirit of praying for peace

Eric
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Keltoi
10-10-2006, 04:39 PM
Does anyone else find it rather odd that the same people who were so offended by the Pope's comments want a "debate" to expose the "lies" of Christianity? Seems rather dubious to me.
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- Qatada -
10-10-2006, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Does anyone else find it rather odd that the same people who were so offended by the Pope's comments want a "debate" to expose the "lies" of Christianity? Seems rather dubious to me.

Throwing a cheap shot at someone is a sign of weakness, whereas if a person is really holding onto the truth - he shouldn't be afraid to debate with the one who is opposing him, and who is supposedly 'wrong.'

The muslim's want the debate because their not afraid due to the fact that it is the truth, the pope's backing off because he's afraid his weakness will be exposed.



It doesn't matter if he agree's or disagree's, because at the end of the day - we're all going to be judged on our actions, and the one's who Allaah Almighty chooses to expose will be humiliated.

So either way, if he doesn't accept the truth, or is too arrogant to face it - he will have to face it one day or the other.



Peace.
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Keltoi
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Throwing a cheap shot at someone is a sign of weakness, whereas if a person is really holding onto the truth - he shouldn't be afraid to debate with the one who is opposing him, and who is supposedly 'wrong.'

The muslim's want the debate because their not afraid due to the fact that it is the truth, the pope's backing off because he's afraid his weakness will be exposed.



It doesn't matter if he agree's or disagree's, because at the end of the day - we're all going to be judged on our actions, and the one's who Allaah Almighty chooses to expose will be humiliated.

So either way, if he doesn't accept the truth, or is too arrogant to face it - he will have to face it one day or the other.



Peace.

What "truth" is that? I seriously doubt the Pope is "afraid" to debate anyone. I assume you believe for whatever reason that faced with the world of Islam the Pope will suddenly be forced to see the light and revert? Let's get serious about the issue. I agree that God will judge in the end, why not leave it at that?
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Muezzin
10-10-2006, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
What "truth" is that? I seriously doubt the Pope is "afraid" to debate anyone. I assume you believe for whatever reason that faced with the world of Islam the Pope will suddenly be forced to see the light and revert? Let's get serious about the issue. I agree that God will judge in the end, why not leave it at that?
I only agree with that logic for certain things. Using it for everything could lead to injustice. ;)
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Keltoi
10-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I only agree with that logic for certain things. Using it for everything could lead to injustice. ;)
Meaning?
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- Qatada -
10-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
What "truth" is that? I seriously doubt the Pope is "afraid" to debate anyone. I assume you believe for whatever reason that faced with the world of Islam the Pope will suddenly be forced to see the light and revert? Let's get serious about the issue. I agree that God will judge in the end, why not leave it at that?

If the pope's not afraid, why not debate with the muslim? It's much easier than getting humiliated by backing off don't you think? :)

Second - it's not our duty to convert anyone, our duty as muslim's is to convey the message. It's Allaah Almighty who guide's the hearts.


Thirdly, yup - if he doesn't want to debate, we'll all return to Allaah and be judged by Him, Almighty anyways.



Peace.
Reply

Keltoi
10-10-2006, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
If the pope's not afraid, why not debate with the muslim? It's much easier than getting humiliated by backing off don't you think? :)

Second - it's not our duty to convert anyone, our duty as muslim's is to convey the message. It's Allaah Almighty who guide's the hearts.


Thirdly, yup - if he doesn't want to debate, we'll all return to Allaah and be judged by Him, Almighty anyways.



Peace.

Do you even know what the "debate" would be about? Would it do any good for improving Christian/Islamic relations? If not, why bother?
Reply

Muezzin
10-10-2006, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Meaning?
Meaning, I could use it for things of this nature, where someone says something, but not for cases where people do something unjust. In the latter case, action usually needs to be taken.

But anyway, my taking issue with that logic really doesn't have much to do with the thread, to tell the truth. My apologies.
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Eric H
10-10-2006, 08:16 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Keltoi;
Do you even know what the "debate" would be about? Would it do any good for improving Christian/Islamic relations? If not, why bother?
I feel that you are right, any debate should try and improve relationships between our faiths somehow. There is enough conflict in this world, and how many times do we hear that conflict between religiions is at the heart of mankind's problems?

God has given each of us enough evidence to believe, but we lack that extra bit of evidence that we could claim truth.

In the spirit of searching for a greater understanding between our faiths.

Eric
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Eric H
10-11-2006, 09:22 AM
Greetings and peace to you all;

Our late Pope John Paul tried to build bridges with people of other faiths, and I believe that the world benefited from his endeavours. Maybe our present pope is not quiet so dynamic in this way but he is still striving to build on the work of his predecessor. Here is part of a recent communication of Pope Benedict, and I believe his real agenda is seeking interfaith friendships despite all our differences. The full script can be found here:

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=96228

Pope Benedict XV1
It is under this profile that the initiative John Paul II promoted 20 years ago has acquired the features of an accurate prophecy. His invitation to the world's religious leaders to bear a unanimous witness to peace serves to explain with no possibility of confusion that religion must be a herald of peace.

As the Second Vatican Council taught in the Declaration "Nostra Aetate" on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions: "We cannot truly pray to God the Father of all if we treat any people in other than brotherly fashion, for all men are created in God's image" (n. 5).

Despite the differences that mark the various religious itineraries, recognition of God's existence, which human beings can only arrive at by starting from the experience of creation (cf. Rom 1:20), must dispose believers to view other human beings as brothers and sisters. It is not legitimate, therefore, for anyone to espouse religious difference as a presupposition or pretext for an aggressive attitude toward other human beings.

It could be objected that history has experienced the regrettable phenomenon of religious wars. We know, however, that such demonstrations of violence cannot be attributed to religion as such but to the cultural limitations with which it is lived and develops in time.

Yet, when the religious sense reaches maturity it gives rise to a perception in the believer that faith in God, Creator of the universe and Father of all, must encourage relations of universal brotherhood among human beings.
If Dr Zakir Naik could work with this agenda of building bridges then I feel a useful exchange of ideas could take place. Maybe there could be a greater understanding, tolerance and friendship between our faiths.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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