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nishom
10-02-2006, 01:09 PM
US Visa Mishap, Teens Lead Tarawih

Islamonline.net & Newspapers


Asking for clarifications on scholars' deportations, Awad said US Muslims need to groom their own imams.

CAIRO — The detention and later deportation of some scholars who were invited by American Muslims to lead Tarawih prayers during Ramadan have upset plans by several Islamic centers for the holy fasting month, though some lessons are being driven.

"We need to get answers from our government," Nihad Awad, Executive Director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), told the Washington Post on Sunday, October 1.

A number of Muslim scholars and imams invited by local American Muslims to lead the Ramadan prayers have been denied access into the country without explanation.

Ismail Mullah, described as soft-spoken scholar born in India's Gujarat state and based in South Africa, was turned away after his arrival at Dulles International Airport.

The same happened with at least four other scholars prompting CAIR, the largest Islamic civil liberties group in the US, to demand clarifications.

"We want people to be abiding by the law. We want to protect our country ... At the same time, we just want to make sure we do not step on people's rights and that we continue to be an open and welcoming society," said Awad.

CAIR wants to know why the government waited until the men arrived in the country instead of denying their visas early enough for the mosques to find replacements.

Since 9/11 terrorist attacks, the US has denied visas to famed Muslim and Arab professors and intellectuals over suspicions of supporting groups on American terrorist lists.

American academics and civil liberty organizations has recently blasted the Bush administration's "ideological exclusion" of prominent Swiss-based Muslim scholar Tariq Ramadan.

Ramadan, one of the world's leading scholars on Islam, is being accusing of having donated some 600 euros (765 dollars) to a registered French charity offering humanitarian aid to Palestinians in 2000.

In 2005, late internationally-renowned British Muslim scholar Zaki Badawi was refused entry at New York's JFK airport after he had arrived to give a lecture at the Chautauqua Institution on law and religion in society.

The US later apologized and lifted a visa ban, allowing him to visit the country anytime.

Prominent British Muslim Yusuf Islam, formerly known as pop singer Cat Stevens, was denied entry to the US in September of 2004.

Home-grown

The last minute access denial has pushed many Islamic centers and mosques to the corner after having designed their Ramadan programs around the invited scholars.

After Mullah was denied access, the Islamic Community Center of Northern Virginia, which had paid thousands of dollars for his airfare, had to look for an alternative.

After few days of frustration in search of a replacement, they had to settle for two local teenagers who had memorized the entire Qur'an by heart to guide the congregation through the 30 days of the holy month.

"I thought, how am I going to do this?" said 13-year-old Aman Chhipa.

"I was nervous. I was thinking I wouldn't be able to do it," echoed the other young imam Uzair Jawed, 16.

Mosque goers are grateful for the boys. Still, they know they lost something when Mullah's entry was denied.

In addition to leading the prayer, Mullah would have guided donations and doled out advice if needed.

"A young kid and a grown priest is a big difference," said Fahad Mirza, 29.

He asserted that the boys are "wonderful" but "they are there just because we have no choice."

Awad said the episode is a testament to the post-9/11 need for US Muslims to stop depending on scholars from other countries.

"I think it's important that we develop our own."

Aman's father, Nasir Chhipa, a director at the center, agreed.

"We learned a lesson from this … We have to produce our own scholars."
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wilberhum
10-02-2006, 09:37 PM
What is dispicable? We have to produce our own scholars? Or that some are denied entry to the US?
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north_malaysian
10-03-2006, 03:20 AM
Originally Posted by nishom

"We learned a lesson from this … We have to produce our own scholars."
If nations like China and Russia can produce their own Muslim scholars ... why not America
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Zulkiflim
10-03-2006, 09:56 AM
Salaam,

The US want to produce moderate muslim,the best musim that can follow the US secular lifestyle that accepts lesbian/gay,that asks women to be imam to lead ocngregation,that ask that men and women not to wear clothing modestly.

I am very sure the US will make a new Islam where the Imam will parade as his wife in the mosques in their undies.

As the US have said the best muslim to them are liken to Hirsi Ali,or the Muslim Madonna or several othr who ask for the Quran to be changed.

All this happen while the US muslim keep quite and say it is not their problem...
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Woodrow
10-03-2006, 11:58 AM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

The US want to produce moderate muslim,the best musim that can follow the US secular lifestyle that accepts lesbian/gay,that asks women to be imam to lead ocngregation,that ask that men and women not to wear clothing modestly.

Want that or know that in America the only way to achieve change is through peaceful means and not by extremest activities?

I am very sure the US will make a new Islam where the Imam will parade as his wife in the mosques in their undies.

I have yet to see or have heard of any US Muslim promoting that.

As the US have said the best muslim to them are liken to Hirsi Ali,or the Muslim Madonna or several othr who ask for the Quran to be changed.

Name 3 US Muslims that have said that.

All this happen while the US muslim keep quite and say it is not their problem...
Living within the law and using peacefull means to bring about change, is not the same as denying the problems nor avoiding them. Change in America does not come through force, it comes through education and example.
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Malaikah
10-03-2006, 12:12 PM
^Woodrow, i dont think he waas saying that muslims want that, rather that some non-muslim americans want that
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Torquemada
10-03-2006, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
^Woodrow, i dont think he waas saying that muslims want that, rather that some non-muslim americans want that
What make you think non muslims want that? Americans don't care what you do as long as you are within our laws. Go to Michigan and see if anyone is trying to change anyones lifestyle.
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Woodrow
10-03-2006, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
^Woodrow, i dont think he waas saying that muslims want that, rather that some non-muslim americans want that
Rereading, you are probably right.


Yes, for the Non-Muslim population what he said is probably true.
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Woodrow
10-03-2006, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by Torquemada
What make you think non muslims want that? Americans don't care what you do as long as you are within our laws. Go to Michigan and see if anyone is trying to change anyones lifestyle.
The difficulty is that without realising it and with no deliberate attempt, the non-Muslim population does suppress Muslims. I will agree it is our problem, when we choose to live as Muslims, but it does make it difficult to participate in mainstream activities.
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Torquemada
10-03-2006, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The difficulty is that without realising it and with no deliberate attempt, the non-Muslim population does suppress Muslims. I will agree it is our problem, when we choose to live as Muslims, but it does make it difficult to participate in mainstream activities.
Suppress muslims in what way?
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Fishman
10-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Torquemada
Suppress muslims in what way?
:sl:
I know somebody who was detained and had their car destroyed (with no compensation) by the airport security. What gave them the right to do this? He had a big beard, the name Muhammad, wearing Islamic dress and was travelling with a white woman (who is his mother).
:w:
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scentsofjannah
10-03-2006, 03:32 PM
:sl:

its horrible subhanAllah...anyways i think its best to have homegrown Imams ..I'm against foreign Imams who come to western countries and dont know how to connect with the youth because they don't speak english..if they made khutbah to the elderly in urdu or arabic or whatever then thats ok...but if they are to deliever a khutbah to a diverse muslim community age wise and ethnicity wise then I'm afraid they gotta speak english!

:w:
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InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 03:37 PM
:sl:

I heard that in Newyork alone there are 800,000 to 1 million muslims. The Imams in the masjid work together and the mayor, who relies on the brother support for various matters, has made Eid a state holiday! Mash'allah. That was ofcourse before 9/11, don't know how it is now :?

Now imagaine all the states in to have brothers and sisters like these? Scholars of Islam in America will not help their political agenda...
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I know somebody who was detained and had their car destroyed (with no compensation) by the airport security. What gave them the right to do this? He had a big beard, the name Muhammad, wearing Islamic dress and was travelling with a white woman (who is his mother).
:w:
Do you assume that the only reason is that he appeared to be a Muslim?
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Torquemada
10-03-2006, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I know somebody who was detained and had their car destroyed (with no compensation) by the airport security. What gave them the right to do this? He had a big beard, the name Muhammad, wearing Islamic dress and was travelling with a white woman (who is his mother).
:w:
Did they ask him to move the car? Was he in a security area? Was he rude? Did he exhibit threatening characteristics? There could be more to this story than your friend is telling you. It's like someone going in the store in the middle of summer with a coat on and claiming they were harrassed because they were black.
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Torquemada
10-03-2006, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
:sl:

I heard that in Newyork alone there are 800,000 to 1 million muslims. The Imams in the masjid work together and the mayor, who relies on the brother support for various matters, has made Eid a state holiday! Mash'allah. That was ofcourse before 9/11, don't know how it is now :?

Now imagaine all the states in to have brothers and sisters like these? Scholars of Islam in America will not help their political agenda...
I think you've been lied to kid. Show me where Eid has ever been a state holiday? We don't have state holidays.
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Andaraawus
10-03-2006, 04:49 PM
A really good film i thought was V for Vendetta - my thoughts speak with that.
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Woodrow
10-03-2006, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Torquemada
I think you've been lied to kid. Show me where Eid has ever been a state holiday? We don't have state holidays.
Here in Texas we have San Jacinto Day. Louisiana celebrates Good Friday as a State Holiday, at one time they also celebrated Huey P. Long Day.

New York State does recognise Eid as a Religious Holiday and Muslim state Employees may use paid leave time to observe it.

Introduction

The New York State General Construction Law establishes the days or dates on which legal holidays are observed in New York State. Under this law, holidays other than Flag Day which fall on a Sunday are observed on the following Monday. The Attendance Rules and negotiated agreements identify which of these legal holidays are observed as paid holidays by New York State as an employer. This calendar does not modify negotiated agreements or Attendance Rules items on the subject of holidays. (See Section 21.1, Holidays, in this Manual.)

Information concerning the days of religious significance was obtained from official religious sources. Since it is not possible to include in this calendar the days of religious significance of every faith, agencies with questions about other religious observances should call the Attendance and Leave Unit of this Department at (518) 457-2295.

The calendar is intended as a guide, since special and local conditions may cause variation from official practice. It is impossible here to note every observance, such as an individual saint’s day, which ordinarily would not require absence from work.

The following further explains days of religious significance and the calendar notations:

An asterisk (*) indicates a day of required religious observance. The letters before an asterisk indicate the faiths for which the day is a day of required religious observance. The abbreviations used correspond to the following denominations or subdenominations:

EO - Eastern Orthodox
P - Protestant
RC - Roman Catholic
OJ - Orthodox Jew
CJ - Conservative Jew
RJ - Reform Jew
M - Muslim

All days of religious significance for the Jewish faith begin at sundown on the evening before the date given.
The Orthodox Jewish faith requires its members to observe each Saturday as the Sabbath. Its members are not permitted to travel by car or common carrier after sundown on Friday evening.
Reform Jews observe one day of required religious observance at the beginning and end of holy days rather than the two days Conservative and Orthodox Jews observe.
The Roman Catholic Church requires its members to attend Mass every Sunday and on days of required religious observance. In some areas, this obligation may be fulfilled by attending Mass after 4 p.m. on the preceding day. In some communities, the Solemnity of the Mother of God (January 1), The Assumption (August 15), and All Saints Day (November 1) are not considered to be days of required religious observance if they fall on a Saturday or a Monday.
The Eastern Orthodox Church requires its members to attend Divine Liturgy on Sundays and on days of required religious observance.
Some Eastern Orthodox churches, including many Russian Orthodox parishes, follow the Julian rather than the Gregorian calendar. For this reason, they celebrate certain days of religious significance 13 days later than the dates listed by the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Members of the Islamic faith observe Fridays as their major day of worship. The fast of Ramadan begins at sundown on the evening before the date given; there is no prohibition on working during Ramadan. The two days of required religious observance are Eid-ul-Fitr (Festival of Fastbreaking) and Eid-ul-Adha (Festival of Sacrifice). Members of the Islamic faith are prohibited from working on those two days. All of the dates of Islamic observance are tentative because they are based on sightings of the moon. Those wishing to confirm the exact dates should call the Attendance and Leave Unit no more than 30 days before the date listed on the calendar.
Source: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/attendance_leave/TM_28.cfm
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Curaezipirid
10-03-2006, 06:34 PM
The American based internet sites certainly are far more likely to disallow member dialogue that could potentially cause fear for any person.

Yet also certainly more likely to enable "inter-Faith" dialogue, some of which can manifest as positively un-Islamic. And also more likely to let dialogue run through sequences of pointed disagreement.

It seems like there is some force at work in American preventing Americans from making Du'a.

Now I wonder also about the nature of Mormonism and whether it is actually true that the Mormon believe in Qur'an. The picture I know is that the first head Mormon dude, whom wrote the book of mormon; assembled it from his own perception of what is real from Torah Gospel and Qur'an. Are they manifesting a bizzare form of anti-hadith teaching? Or did the book of Mormon rely upon all ahadith? The Salt Lake City mob still seem to have all the nuts and bolts of American Christian Imam.

But what is their actual influence within American Islam? Will Peace be enabled through Mormons? or through those whom comprehend the specific historical function Mormonism and can believe that a valid role exists for them? If we are serious in the matter of Peace we should regard their work seriously. They are a peculiarly American phenomenon, and that chances are they they have a large influence upon whatever is occuring among Muslim Imam in America whether we like it or not.

I guess that the solution is to regard Mormons within each their own individual Imam. The key to the Mormons is that while they themselves are not actual shaytan usually, they are who hold Imam for American shaytan occultists. In that comprehension there can be no Islam in America that is not equitably accounting for their real worth and work.

We may all believe that that book of Mormon is altogether too peculiar to contemplate; and it certainly has intact its share of the effects of black magic.

Is the key to working in that whole context rather to work within Masonic lodges? Which also have their own independent systems similar to Imam. But who will it be whom can reassure Masons that they will be righteously able to hold their own in Islam? That is, the true believers among, and of course there are some. Other wise the shaytan would have long before now blown us all to Kingdom come. But what is wrong in the total picture?

This thread is kind of precisely that point. Are we really sure what is being held wrongly against whom when? I know that the past three years of my life have been a daily adventure of discovering one after another fact about what false accusations are being financially speculated upon. And that is in having refused the offer of membership of a Rosicrucian Lodge. If the likes of the Pope believe that they can just start a new round of false allegations against Islam; then they will surely know their ground.

But those whom are not actual shaytan and whom are supporting Rosicrucians and the Pope and etc, are a set of persons whom use heroin. And opiate use is functionally almost impossible to combat without a structural support from in all Human society.

The Americans would be better off getting back into their war on drugs rather than continuing the war on terror angle.

And the pathos of Australian junkies sitting around, (uh oh now I ought to tell that they truly believe themselves to be hard workers), finding any desperate measure by which to hide what they imagine they can fault Muslims with, hiding an even more desperate measure in their desperation; is factually only a problem of biological intolerance for believing that an addiction is recoverable from. Truly this is within my witness: that there exist families of the wealthy and influential whose daughters they let fall into juvenile drug use and prostitution so as to find a measure to account themselves against the persons whom their daughers met. And I do not mean Bob Hawke. What is going on in the brothels and tattoo parlours which the wealthy attend is having an impact upon us all that need not be if only we know what they are trying to cause. The kind of situations I am portraying are the stuff nightmares are made of and much of the detail is matter that need not be known short of taking them all into the fire. For that measure there are those whom become peripheral to such phenomena, and hated by those profiting from to the extent of being wrongly faulted enough to find out what is going on.

Now what I can attest to is that one single prostitute discovered that nobody was catching her at fault in selling on heroin in which she let the buyer suppose to be able to hold all Islam at fault for Shari'ah, as though under Islamic Governance legislation would prevent other believers in One God. Perhaps like Mormons? While the specific heroin selling prostitute whom I went to school with is not especially acquainted with Mormonism: she has a brothel client whom is a knighted "Sir", and heroin purchaser. It seems that his old war wound accorded to him that he thought to use pharmecuetical drugs also within the same false accusation of Islam. And it is strangely manifesting that much other money is all being held to such a false account.

Medicine's new word is Beelzebub has had enough.

There is no point in exorcisms of folk whom just kept up with the same fault.

wasalam
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Torquemada
10-03-2006, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Here in Texas we have San Jacinto Day. Louisiana celebrates Good Friday as a State Holiday, at one time they also celebrated Huey P. Long Day.

New York State does recognise Eid as a Religious Holiday and Muslim state Employees may use paid leave time to observe it.



Source: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/attendance_leave/TM_28.cfm
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info
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