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InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 12:42 AM
[PIE]WASHINGTON POST

Why I’m Banned in the USA
Monday 2 October 2006, by Tariq Ramadan


For more than two years now, the U.S. government has barred me from entering the United States to pursue an academic career. The reasons have changed over time, and have evolved from defamatory to absurd, but the effect has remained the same: I’ve been kept out.

First, I was told that I could not enter the country because I had endorsed terrorism and violated the USA Patriot Act. It took a lawsuit for the government eventually to abandon this baseless accusation. Later, I reapplied for a visa, twice, only to hear nothing for more than a year. Finally, just 10 days ago, after a federal judge forced the State Department to reconsider my application, U.S. authorities offered a new rationale for turning me away: Between 1998 and 2002, I had contributed small sums of money to a French charity supporting humanitarian work in the Palestinian territories.



I am increasingly convinced that the Bush administration has barred me for a much simpler reason: It doesn’t care for my political views. In recent years, I have publicly criticized U.S. policy in the Middle East, the war in Iraq, the use of torture, secret CIA prisons and other government actions that undermine fundamental civil liberties. And for many years, through my research and writing and speeches, I have called upon Muslims to better understand the principles of their own faith, and have sought to show that one can be Muslim and Western at the same time.



My experience reveals how U.S. authorities seek to suppress dissenting voices and — by excluding people such as me from their country — manipulate political debate in America. Unfortunately, the U.S. government’s paranoia has evolved far beyond a fear of particular individuals and taken on a much more insidious form: the fear of ideas.



In January 2004, I was offered a job at the University of Notre Dame, as a professor of Islamic studies and as Luce professor of religion, conflict and peace-building. I accepted the tenured position enthusiastically and looked forward to joining the academic community in the United States. After the government granted me a work visa, I rented a home in South Bend, Ind., enrolled my children in school there and shipped all of my household belongings. Then, in July, the government notified me that my visa had been revoked. It did not offer a specific explanation, but pointed to a provision of the Patriot Act that applies to people who have "endorsed or espoused" terrorist activity.



The revocation shocked me. I had consistently opposed terrorism in all of its forms, and still do. And, before 2004, I had visited the United States frequently to lecture, attend conferences and meet with other scholars. I had been an invited speaker at conferences or lectures sponsored by Harvard University, Stanford, Princeton and the William Jefferson Clinton Presidential Foundation. None of these institutions seemed to consider me a threat to national security.




The U.S. government invited me to apply for a new visa and, with Notre Dame’s help, I did so in October 2004. But after three months passed without a response, I felt I had little choice but to give up my new position and resume my life in Europe. Even so, I never abandoned the effort to clear my name. At the urging of American academic and civic groups, I reapplied for a visa one last time in September 2005, hoping that the government would retract its accusation. Once again, I encountered only silence.





Finally, in January, the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Academy of Religion, the American Association of University Professors and PEN American Center filed a lawsuit on my behalf, challenging the government’s actions. In court, the government’s lawyers admitted that they could establish no connection between me and any terrorist group; the government had merely taken a "prudential" measure by revoking my visa. Even then, the government maintained that the process of reconsidering my visa could take years. The federal court — which issued a ruling recognizing that I have been a vocal critic of terrorism — rejected the indefinite delay. In June, it ordered the government to grant me a visa or explain why it would not do so.





On Sept. 21, the long-awaited explanation arrived. The letter from the U.S. Embassy informed me that my visa application had been denied, and it put an end to the rumors that had circulated since my original visa was revoked. After a lengthy investigation, the State Department cited no evidence of suspicious relationships, no meetings with terrorists, no encouraging or advocacy of terrorism. Instead, the department cited my donation of $940 to two humanitarian organizations (a French group and its Swiss chapter) serving the Palestinian people. I should note that the investigation did not reveal these contributions. As the department acknowledges, I had brought this information to their attention myself, two years earlier, when I had reapplied for a visa.





In its letter, the U.S. Embassy claims that I "reasonably should have known" that the charities in question provided money to Hamas. But my donations were made between December 1998 and July 2002, and the United States did not blacklist the charities until 2003. How should I reasonably have known of their activities before the U.S. government itself knew? I donated to these organizations for the same reason that countless Europeans — and Americans, for that matter — donate to Palestinian causes: not to help fund terrorism, but because I wanted to provide humanitarian aid to people who desperately need it. Yet after two years of investigation, this was the only explanation offered for the denial of my visa. I still find it hard to believe.





What words do I utter and what views do I hold that are dangerous to American ears, so dangerous, in fact, that I should not be allowed to express them on U.S. soil?





I have called upon Western societies to be more open toward Muslims and to regard them as a source of richness, not just of violence or conflict. I have called upon Muslims in the West to reconcile and embrace both their Islamic and Western identities. I have called for the creation of a "New We" based on common citizenship within which Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims and people with no religion can build a pluralistic society. And yes, I believe we all have a right to dissent, to criticize governments and protest undemocratic decisions. It is certainly legitimate for European Muslims and American Muslims to criticize their governments if they find them unjust — and I will continue to do so.





At the same time, I do not stop short of criticizing regimes from Muslim countries. Indeed, the United States is not the only country that rejects me; I am also barred from Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and even my native Egypt. Last month, after a few sentences in a speech by Pope Benedict XVI elicited protests and violence, I published an article noting how some governments in the Muslim world manipulate these imagined crises to suit their political agendas. "When the people are deprived of their basic rights and of their freedom of expression," I argued, "it costs nothing to allow them to vent their anger over Danish cartoons or the words of the Pontiff." I was immediately accused of appeasing the enemies of Islam, of being more Western than Muslim.





Today, I live and work in London. From my posts at Oxford University and the Lokahi Foundation, I try to promote cultural understanding and to prevent radicalization within Muslim communities here. Along with many British citizens, I have criticized the country’s new security laws and its support for the war in Iraq. Yet I have never been asked to remain silent as a condition to live or work here. I can express myself freely.





I fear that the United States has grown fearful of ideas. I have learned firsthand that the Bush administration reacts to its critics not by engaging them, but by stigmatizing and excluding them. Will foreign scholars be permitted to enter the United States only if they promise to mute their criticisms of U.S. policy? It saddens me to think of the effect this will have on the free exchange of ideas, on political debate within America, and on our ability to bridge differences across cultures.


Article published the 1st October in the Washington Post


[/PIE]

http://www.tariqramadan.com/article....le=799&lang=en
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Joe98
10-03-2006, 02:51 AM
So, the person is critical of Anmerica and is not an American citizen is not allowed into America!

Shock horror!
Reply

snakelegs
10-03-2006, 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
[PIE]

I have called upon Muslims to better understand the principles of their own faith, and have sought to show that one can be Muslim and Western at the same time.

The revocation shocked me. I had consistently opposed terrorism in all of its forms, and still do.

I have been a vocal critic of terrorism

I have called upon Western societies to be more open toward Muslims and to regard them as a source of richness, not just of violence or conflict. I have called upon Muslims in the West to reconcile and embrace both their Islamic and Western identities. I have called for the creation of a "New We" based on common citizenship within which Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims and people with no religion can build a pluralistic society.

I fear that the United States has grown fearful of ideas. I have learned firsthand that the Bush administration reacts to its critics not by engaging them, but by stigmatizing and excluding them. Will foreign scholars be permitted to enter the United States only if they promise to mute their criticisms of U.S. policy? It saddens me to think of the effect this will have on the free exchange of ideas, on political debate within America, and on our ability to bridge differences across cultures.

[/PIE]

http://www.tariqramadan.com/article....le=799&lang=en
he is right - it's the ideas that do not suit the political agenda of the u.s.
i think the u.s. does not want to listen to muslims who hold the ideas i've picked out from the article. there is a vested interest in keeping the people polarized - and the bin ladens, the type of muslims who went on the rampage in reaction to the muhammad cartoons - suit this purpose very well.
muslims who believe that "one can be muslim and western at the same time" do not suit this political agenda.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 05:39 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
he is right - it's the ideas that do not suit the political agenda of the u.s.
i think the u.s. does not want to listen to muslims who hold the ideas i've picked out from the article. there is a vested interest in keeping the people polarized - and the bin ladens, the type of muslims who went on the rampage in reaction to the muhammad cartoons - suit this purpose very well.
muslims who believe that "one can be muslim and western at the same time" do not suit this political agenda.
Thats true, The idea of muslims wanting coexist peacefully with people in the west is probably Bushs worst nightmare. Funny thing is he is barred from Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and even his native land Egypt.

[PIE]3 - Exacting Involvement





We are not born as spectators, whether we are here or elsewhere. Wherever they are, “those who believe and do good” are active. To act is first to understand the environment in which we live, assess the balances, determine the priorities and measure the constraints. Between the fear of getting lost and the imperative of reform lies our personal path to concretely “promote good and resist evil and injustice.”





It is not only about “integrating”, being “accepted”, “appreciated”, or even “liked” in Europe. The first step in affirming our identity with regard to our environment is to be simply respected. No more and, definitely, no less. Of course, we must also hope for and promote sincere recognition, friendship and mutual affection.





This is the first requirement and it determines the rest. We need to be respected, although in reality we are not and that is probably because we do not know how to demand respect or, even worse, because we are not worthy of it. This is exactly where we need to get involved - to be recognized for whom we are - citizens, Muslims, sure about ourselves and aware of our rights.





This prerequisite enables us to strengthen our involvement in social, educational, economic, political, academic and cultural spheres. Our presence and contribution can only be done as active citizens, in the light of our ethical consciousness - in our daily lives fostering solidarity with men and women of goodwill, reforming our present state, building our future and revisiting the past and our collective memory. This is what our involvement entails and it is no small task.
[/PIE]

full article here from same guy:
http://www.tariqramadan.com/article....le=624&lang=en
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
So, the person is critical of Anmerica and is not an American citizen is not allowed into America!

Shock horror!
Well put!
Since when does any foreigner have any right to enter another country?
Entry into any country is a privilege, not a right.
Why would any country allow anyone who is critical of them to enter?
Reply

Torquemada
10-03-2006, 04:48 PM
Why would they want to come here and have anything to do with us Kaffirs anyway? Why not go to the university of Tehran?
Reply

Fishman
10-03-2006, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well put!
Since when does any foreigner have any right to enter another country?
Entry into any country is a privilege, not a right.
Why would any country allow anyone who is critical of them to enter?
:sl:
I'm a citizen of the world, I should be able to go where I please!
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I'm a citizen of the world, I should be able to go where I please!
:w:
I would like to see your passport. :giggling:
You can make any statemnt you like, that does not make it true. :hiding:
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aamirsaab
10-03-2006, 05:10 PM
:sl:
In respone to
*
Originally Posted by Joe89
So, the person is critical of Anmerica and is not an American citizen is not allowed into America!

Shock horror
and
*
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well put!
Since when does any foreigner have any right to enter another country?
Entry into any country is a privilege, not a right.
Why would any country allow anyone who is critical of them to enter?
America was formed by foreigners (Members of the Irish variety if my memory serves correct, after pushing the natives off their land). To deny any "foreigners" access to the grand ol' US of A would go against what America stands for. It'd also be something else, but due to the fact my posts have to be G - rated, i'm not allowed to say it.
Reply

akulion
10-03-2006, 05:12 PM
The answer should simply have been: cos we dont wana let u in bye

lol
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Fishman
10-03-2006, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I would like to see your passport. :giggling:
You can make any statemnt you like, that does not make it true. :hiding:
:sl:
If I had a passport...
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
In respone to
*
and
*
America was formed by foreigners (Members of the Irish variety if my memory serves correct, after pushing the natives off their land). To deny any "foreigners" access to the grand ol' US of A would go against what America stands for. It'd also be something else, but due to the fact my posts have to be G - rated, i'm not allowed to say it.
Your memory serves you correctly but it is historical. Life has changed. We no longer allow anyone in. (Except accross the Southern Border :grumbling )
America no longer says "Give me your tired..............
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InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well put!
Since when does any foreigner have any right to enter another country?
Entry into any country is a privilege, not a right.
Why would any country allow anyone who is critical of them to enter?
It is a privelage which has been provided by Notre dame university. If you read the article you will find they went at lengths, failed to give evidence/valid reason for not letting him enter. Then they said "OMG HE DONATED $600 TO A CHARITY IN PALESTINE! WHAT AN INSENSITIVE *bleep*" . Case closed!

Snakelegs got in the mark with wht he said.
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:18 PM
It is a privelage which has been provided by Notre dame university.
When did Notre Dame become in charge of issueing Visas?
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aamirsaab
10-03-2006, 05:18 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Your memory serves you correctly but it is historical. Life has changed. We no longer allow anyone in. (Except accross the Southern Border :grumbling )
America no longer says "Give me your tired..............
So don't you find that a bit unfair? I mean, given the very fact that america was established by foreigners it now no longer allows them in?

I rarely ever use this particular term (it is often overused in my opinion) but i'm offered little choice: "double standards" anyone?

I'm sorry but I honestly cannot understand this political bull crap sometimes.
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:

So don't you find that a bit...well a bit unfair? I mean, given the very fact that america was established by foreigners it now no longer allows them in?

I rarely ever use this particular term (it is often overused in my opinion) but i'm offered little choice: "double standards" anyone?
Unfair? Maybe! I would have to see both sides of the arguement to make that decision. No longer allows them in? Thousands come every day.
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The Ruler
10-03-2006, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
The answer should simply have been: cos we dont wana let u in bye

lol
ys...nut the thing is that he says that he criticizes the government n stuff like that and that he will keep on doin so...but that is not the example the prophet (saw) gave up :heated:

*sigh*

we make peace through peace not through violence :uhwhat

:w:
Reply

InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
When did Notre Dame become in charge of issueing Visas?
In UK if you have a shortage of skill in an area the citizens in UK (who work, pay tax, keep econony going etc) have the right to look at other countries for that "special someone" to do their work. I thought it is the same in America...
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aamirsaab
10-03-2006, 05:25 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Unfair? Maybe! I would have to see both sides of the arguement to make that decision
I would have used a much stronger word, but as stated before G - rated posts only.

No longer allows them in? Thousands come every day.
Yet prior to this you stated
We no longer allow anyone in
Additionally, if they are allowed in, why is Tariq Ramadan not?

I hesitate to reiterate my previous statement: "double standards"
Reply

wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Yet prior to this you stated .
Additionally, if they are allowed in, why is Tariq Ramadan not?
Anyone is not noone. Why not Tariq Ramadan? As I said, I would need to see the other side of the story.
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
In UK if you have a shortage of skill in an area the citizens in UK (who work, pay tax, keep econony going etc) have the right to look at other countries for that "special someone" to do their work. I thought it is the same in America...
It is. But you still need a Visa and that is issued by the government. I'm sure the same is in the UK.
Reply

MTAFFI
10-03-2006, 06:03 PM
what about american or canadians that want in places like Iran? Just because they may or may not get denied doesnt provoke them to say there is some big conspiracy behind it. Has anyone ever read the article about the Canadian journalist that entered Iran and was killed by the islamic republic for taking pictures and refusing to give up her camera. you want to see people who do not want free speech and views that do not agree with theirs the look up Zahra Kazemi. This journalist was not even a citizen of Iran and was forced to be buried there against her families will because the Iranian government didnt want anyone else to do an autopsy on her. at least if we dont want someone in our country that doesnt believe in what we do we dont kill them and deny them a proper burial
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Woodrow
10-03-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:

I would have used a much stronger word, but as stated before G - rated posts only.


Yet prior to this you stated
Additionally, if they are allowed in, why is Tariq Ramadan not?

I hesitate to reiterate my previous statement: "double standards"
I do not know why Tariq Ramadan was not permitted into the USA because Muslims are currently migrating into the country in record numbers.

Immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia are planting new roots in states from Virginia to Texas to California.

In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.
More than 40,000 of them were admitted last year, the highest annual number since the terrorist attacks, according to data on 22 countries provided by the Department of Homeland Security.

Many have made the journey unbowed by tales of immigrant hardship, and despite their own opposition to American policy in the Middle East. They come seeking the same promise that has drawn foreigners to the United States for many decades, according to a range of experts and immigrants: economic opportunity and political freedom.

Those lures, both powerful and familiar, have been enough to conquer fears that America is an inhospitable place for Muslims.

“America has always been the promised land for Muslims and non-Muslims,” said Behzad Yaghmaian, an Iranian exile and author of “Embracing the Infidel: Stories of Muslim Migrants on the Journey West.” “Despite Muslims’ opposition to America’s foreign policy, they still come here because the United States offers what they’re missing at home.”

For Ms. Fatima, it was the freedom to dress as she chose and work as a security guard. For Mr. Youssef, it was the chance to earn a master’s degree.

He came in spite of the deep misgivings that he and many other Egyptians have about the war in Iraq and the Bush administration. In America, he said, one needs to distinguish between the government and the people.

“Who am I dealing with, Bush or the American public?” he said. “Am I dealing with my future in Egypt or my future here?”

Muslims have been settling in the United States in significant numbers since the mid-1960’s, after immigration quotas that favored Eastern Europeans were lifted. Spacious mosques opened in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York as a new, highly educated Muslim population took hold.

Over the next three decades, the story of Muslim migration to the United States was marked by growth and prosperity. A larger percentage of immigrants from Muslim countries have graduate degrees than other American residents, and their average salary is about 20 percent higher, according to census data.
Source: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...and%20Refugees
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KAding
10-03-2006, 08:24 PM
He was banned because he has donated to a charity connected to Hamas, which the US government considers a terrorist organisation. Simple, those are the rules. I think he gives himself too much credit if he thinks Bush officials decide on his visa application.

Sucks for him. I think the US government is being a bit too strict, especially since this case can be abused by those who want to attack the US. Yet, it is the perogative of the US government to decide who enters the country. And he is openly anti-American obviously, and has for example frequently said he supports attacks against US soldiers in Iraq.

Besides, Ramadan does not need to be in the US to express his views, that argument doesn't hold, it hasn't held as long as there is a printing press, let alone internet and TV. He sells many books in the US for example.
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boomarang
10-03-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
Thats true, The idea of muslims wanting coexist peacefully with people in the west is probably Bushs worst nightmare. Funny thing is he is barred from Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and even his native land Egypt.


Bush is Egyptian ? Who would have thought...?
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Fishman
10-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by boomarang
Bush is Egyptian ? Who would have thought...?
:sl:
No, Tariq is Egyptian...
:w:
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InToTheRain
10-03-2006, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by boomarang
Bush is Egyptian ? Who would have thought...?
Ahh...with minds like these it is little wonder why there are mass websites taking the Qur'an and Sunnah out of context...
Reply

Hawa
10-03-2006, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well put!
Since when does any foreigner have any right to enter another country?
Entry into any country is a privilege, not a right.
Why would any country allow anyone who is critical of them to enter?

unless ofcourse they're entering with guns blazing, then its A-ok!
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Hawa
unless ofcourse they're entering with guns blazing, then its A-ok!
Some do think it is OK. I think there are circumstances where it is.
Not all, but some.
But then some think it is OK to enter a country with dynamite and nails strapped to there body.
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Hawa
10-03-2006, 09:41 PM
you again
Originally Posted by wilberhum
But then some think it is OK to enter a country with dynamite and nails strapped to there body.

I doubt they think its OK, they feel it's necessary..why do you think that is?
Reply

wilberhum
10-03-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by Hawa
you again
I doubt they think its OK, they feel it's necessary..why do you think that is?
Of course in complex situations, there are many factors.
I think the main reason is a cycle of hate that has replaced love.
Reply

Hawa
10-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Of course in complex situations, there are many factors.
I think the main reason is a cycle of hate that has replaced love.

a cycle of hate that stems from injustice...


someones coming around ;D
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wilberhum
10-03-2006, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by Hawa
a cycle of hate that stems from injustice...


someones coming around ;D
I have always been "around". :giggling:
Contrary to most, I look at both sides of the coin.
Most here say “I love A” and “Hate B” therefore every thing that A does to B is good. When B does the same thing, I call them evil. And I hate them for there evil. :hiding: :hiding:
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SilentObserver
02-20-2007, 05:56 AM
A country has the right to allow or deny entry to whichever individuals they please. It is no different than my house, just because you ask to come in, doesn't mean I'm letting you in. I don't have to explain why.
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Akil
02-27-2007, 01:27 PM
All points of view save those that call for violent overthrow of the US government should be welcomed. My advice to this person would be to appeal this decision with the State Department or perhaps the Justice department and coordinate with Muslim Political Action Committees within the United States.
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