Is Islam a continuation of Christianity?

[Aishaa]

I am 46 years old and am married to an Egyptian MUslim.. it was this fact that I began to study Islam. I have not just studied the Quoran but some of the Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed and also the testomonies of Aisha.
I am told that Islam is a continuation of Christianity and that Christianity is not dismissed by Islam.. yet there are so many differences.
Christ said that violence in any form was wrong.. to turn the other cheek.. he also said to live by the sword is to die by the sword.. yet Prophet Mohammed was a leader of an entire army.
Jesus forgave a woman who was to be stoned to death and told people.. LEt he without sin cast the first stone.. no-one did because they knew they had all sinned in their own ways.. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more....Yet in the Quoran clearly talks about brutal punnishments that certain countries still practice today.
Jeus told us to drink red wine and take bread to remember him.. yet in Islam ALL alcahol is forbidden STrangely enough.. as a healer as Jesus was.. healing properties have been found in red wine.
Jesus said.. one woman for one man.. and all thier properties to be shared.. in the marriage ceremony of a Christian wedding.. the words are.. All what I have I share with you.. all what I am I give to you. Yet in Islam the wife only takes a share of an entire lifes worth when her husband dies and he can also have up to 4 wives.
I must make it clear at this point.. that I am not slamming Islam.. far from it.. I am merely pointing out just a few of the differences between the two religeons and yet I was told that Christianity is a continuation.
So if Islam is in fact a continuation.. why then are there so many differences.. one Muslim told me.. well Christianity didnt work so he talked to prophet Mohammed.. God in my mind does NOT make mistakes.
Id love to hear some other view points on this.

[Woodrow]

Islam is not a continuation of Christianity. It is what Christianity should have remained as. The true message preached by Is'a (a.s.) was the same message given to Muhammad (PBUH), It was humans that changed the message into what Christianity became.

[Muezzin]

A word about the punishments - it's not as if Muslims are encouraged to punish people, to take some sort of sadistic relish in it or something. For example, once a woman came to the Prophet (peace be upon him), saying that she had commited adultery. The Prophet (peace be upon him) turned away, and told her to go away and repent. Why? Because he did not want to administer the punishment, which IS harsh. Now, some time passed, but it wasn't like the Prophet (peace be upon him) was sending out squads to find the woman. However, eventually she did return under her own free will, and thus the Prophet (peace be upon him) was forced to order the punishment, which was by no means an emotionally easy thing to do.

The point is, if people do commit sins such as adultery, they are only punished if they are found out or if they give themselves in. It's best not to commit adultery in the first place of course, but if one does commit it, rather than giving oneself in, one should desist from the activity and repent to Allah, the most merciful.

[rania2820]

Islam came to correct the errors that were in the Torah and Bible is not a continuations of the bible.and in Islam if one commits adultery they are given the chance to repent for their sins. pusnishemt by stoning is not the first action.during the prohet's(pbuh) time they only did stoning as a last resort.

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[DigitalStorm82]

Peace be to you Sister,

Thank you for your interest in learning the difference in Islam and Christianity. Many people don't even think about learning Islam before they leap forward to criticise Islam in anyway they can.

I would like to suggest that you please do read the translation of the Quran, as it is a complete guide to the TRUTH behind the values of Islam.

Sis, it is true the Prophet Muhammad (sws) was the leader of the Muslims and the Muslim armies. You must learn the history of Islam to understand how the law mentioned in the Quran came about...

Prophet Mohammad (sws) started preaching in Makkah, Saudi Arabia but he was persecuted and thrown out into the open desert, just for saying "There is only One God" because at the time, Kabbah was a trading city where people came from many lands to sell and buy goods and worship many gods. So, when prophet Muhammad (sws) started preaching there is ONE God, they were threatened and casted him out.

As a result of that, he migrated to Madinah... But they had left all their belongings in Makkah because they were thrown out... those who couldn't travel remained and were tortured... some even killed because they refuse to give up their faith in one God. So, there was a peace treaty signed by Muhammad (sws) and the tribal leaders of Makkah... eventually the Makkah people broke the peace treaty and attacked the muslims... at that point (some one correct me if Im wrong) the revelation for the verses to defend themselves came... to fight in the way of Allah but do not transgress.. and do not be the opressors.. for Allah hates the opressors. Even to a point, where they were forbidden to cut down trees and kill plant life of the enemy... Islam by itself means.. peace. But, Sis, peace sometimes only comes when you supress the oppressors.

Stoning is very very had to do... you know why.. because you need 4 witnesses. If somoene committs adultry... you need 4 EYE WITNESSES! if you have 3.. it is not enough. Stoning is also done by confession. People have confessed to adultry and request stoning as a punishment are truely God fearing people... because, the punishment of Adultry in the hereafter is FAR SEVERE than getting hit by bunch of stones. So to avoid the punishment of the hereafter they accepted the punishment of this world. But do not forget, that Allah has also told us that He is the Most Forgiving... so it is recommended that you ask for forgiveness and not return to the sin.

Sis, surely you know that wine also has negative effects as well... There is more harm that comes out of drinking than there is good... it is really easy to see why it is forbidden in Islam. Alcohol wasn't forbidden in the early stages of Islam... it was over a period of time that Allah sent a revelation to ban Alcohol use completely. Because Allah knows that it is not something that you can give up easily... so it was done in stages. Look at how many people have liver problems or how many kids die every day because some drunk guy drives them over without even realizing he's driving! Or look how people behave in bars and clubs when they are drinking... it promotes chaos! If you say drinking in small quanitity is ok... it is not.. because sooner or later 1 glass will turn into 2.. 3.. and before you know it.. you'll under the influence od alcohol.. and that is how many women get raped at parties or end up doing soemthing they regret later... or end up as teenage mothers who can't even run their own life... how will the raise a new child?

As far as the inheritance is concerened... you should be aware of the husband responsibilities before you make the decision whether it is enough or not...

I suggest you check out the videos on this site...
http://www.irf.net/irf/videogallery/index.htm

Check videos and frequently asked questions regarding marriage.

But, in summary, the man ends up with far less money for his own use than his wife... In Islam it is an obligation upon the husband to provide for his family... and yet if the wife works... she can keep all of her money to herself... and when you become eligable for inhertiance you still get the money.

And as for 4 wives... The husband has to treat them equally, and Allah has commanded the muslims to be just, and if the husband cant be just stay with one wife. Also if you look at this logically, world population, there are more females than males.. and it is predicted that there will be so many women that 50 women will be looked by 1 man. Actually, if you take the current situation in some of the eastern countries, women are far greater than males.. so to apply this Islamic law and allow men to get married to 4 wives is divine justice. If the men aren't allowed to marry more than 1 wife, who will all these women marry?

And lastly, Islam tells us about Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and so many more prophets before Muhammad (sws)... it is similar to christianity more than it is to any other religoin...

As christians, we believe in Jesus, and that he will return in Demuscus, only difference is that Jesus is a Prophet, like all the other messengers that have come and gone and not a son of God.

For God has no creater nor partners or relatives... That is why He is GOD!

There is NOTHING like Him...and we are not made in the image of God.

I hope you read the Quran and understand the differences for yourself... it will explain far better than I can ever do..


Peace be with you.

[Aishaa]

Thankyou for your reply Digital.. I accept everything you have said and agree with many parts of it, however, you say Christians changed Christianity so therfore envoked God to yet again send another messenger. How did this happen?.. as Christianity is based on what happened when it happened, everything Jesus said was recorded AT THE TIME.. and not written years after his death or through memory as I believe the teachings of Prophet Mohammed was.. forgive me if I am wrong but this is what I have learnt.

You say Jesus was not the son of God.. just a messenger.. so why then did he rise again? hard to do if youre just a man. The whole foundation of Christianity was the fact that Jesus proved who he was by his death and ressurection.. With all due respect.. If someone wanted to produce another religeon dismissing Christianity.. Whats the first thing you must do?.. Tell everyone that his death was fake. ONly then would people follow the new religeon.
I have an English version of the Quoran which I read with intrest, I also read a lot.. the testemonies of Aisha were not accepted by Islam because she was a woman.. but none the less you have to read with interest about Prophet Mohammeds clear low opinion of women... Jesus never married let alone 9 wives and certainly never married a child.
IF Jesus and Mohammed were both soley messengers.. then why was Jesus born to a virgin.. yet Mohammed was not.. Why was Jesus given the gift of healing.. yet Mohammed was not..Why did Jesus stay pure.. while Mohammed had 9 wives.. one of them a child and had many concubines? Why is Mohammed in a grave.. while Jesus was called back to God? The differences between them are drasticly different.
It leaves a person like myself very confused as I learn Islam.. I am leaning it from the beginning and studying every aspect.. not just falling in to it blindly lead by people who just want me to convert to a religeon I know not a lot about. In Fact I wonder how many people who are in the religeon follow it because their family and friends do.. and only study the Quoran,,, theres so much more to this religeon than meets the eye. PLease take everything I have said with respect as I learn day by day.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Is Islam a continuation of Christianity?

No. Prophet Jesus never preached Christianity. He preached Islam. Islam is the religion preached by all the Prophets of God.

I am 46 years old and am married to an Egyptian MUslim.. it was this fact that I began to study Islam. I have not just studied the Quoran but some of the Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed and also the testomonies of Aisha.

Right from the get-go you betray your ignorance on Islam and falsify your claim to have studied the religion. In addition to the fact that you repeat only the common myths about Islam refuted ages ago, you begin with a misunderstanding of the Ahâdîth (sing. Hadîth) by identifying the 'testimonies of Aisha' as an additional source, whereas Â'isha [r] was a narrator of Ahâdîth.

Christ said that violence in any form was wrong.. to turn the other cheek.. he also said to live by the sword is to die by the sword.. yet Prophet Mohammed was a leader of an entire army.

Prophet Muhammad pbuh, like Prophet Moses pbuh, was a state leader. The use of force is necessitated for the the preservation of the security of the state. If you disagree, go and live in a country without a law enforcement agency (police force)!

As well, you seem to be unaware of some fundamentals of Islam:

Forgiveness
The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Virtue
The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

More here:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...het%20Muhammad

Jesus forgave a woman who was to be stoned to death and told people.. LEt he without sin cast the first stone.. no-one did because they knew they had all sinned in their own ways.. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more....

And yet if you claim Jesus is God, then Jesus is the one who ordained the so-called barbaric punishment in the first place, in the days of the OT!

Yet in the Quoran clearly talks about brutal punnishments that certain countries still practice today.

These myths about Islamic punishments being brutal and barbaric are all refuted in the following thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ariah-law.html

Jeus told us to drink red wine and take bread to remember him.. yet in Islam ALL alcahol is forbidden STrangely enough.. as a healer as Jesus was.. healing properties have been found in red wine.

Actually the Qur'an states that there are some benefits but the harm otuwieghs the benefits which is exactly what has been proven:
2:219 They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit."

Jesus said.. one woman for one man..

Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: إن النساء شقائق الرجال
(Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Musnad Ahmad). Meaning that women are the twin counterparts of men; thus, the scholars say that the general rule in Islam is that all rulings apply equally to men and women, except where otherwise indicated.

Yet in Islam the wife only takes a share of an entire lifes worth when her husband dies and he can also have up to 4 wives.

Actually, in Islam a woman's wealth is her own to spend as she wills while the husband is obligated to spend on the family, and she can take money from him if he is not doing his duty [*]

I must make it clear at this point.. that I am not slamming Islam..

Your post is the only evidence we need - rather than asking questions to try to gain a better understanding of Islam you post dozens of age-old myths and misconceptions as statements and assertions.

Regards

[north_malaysian]

Do Christians ever realise that they are VERY DIFFERENT from Jews and Muslims?

It looks like Islam is a continuation of Judaism rather than of Christianity...

[Aishaa]

Ansar.. I apoligise if you find me to be nagative I assure you I was not trying to be. Its not easy being a 46 year old Christian learning a very intracate and indepth religeon like Islam.. of course the first things I noticed are bound to be the differences. I have actually asked questions and opinions as well as state things ive noticed. I am not an expert and I dont try to be. I have only talked about what I have read so far. It was in fact my Muslim husband who told me Islam was a continuation which is why I posted the question.. Is Islam a continuation of Christianity? You mentioned I have not asked questions.. I have actually asked a few like the differences in the lives of Prophet Mohammed and Jesus and why are they so different if in fact they are both just human messengers. These were genuine questions.
You are right when you say I dont know enough.. which is exactly why I came here to discuss Islam,, the differences between the 2 religeons and to hear peoples opinions.
I have not meant to be offensive and I apoligise if I came accross that way. I am just trying to make sense out of the 2 religeons and why Islam came to be.
I will continue to read and like my husband says.. be careful not to read propaganda
With the help of Muslim friends and good sites like this Ill be able to learn more.. as I said in my post.. I ended with.. I learn every day.
Once again I apoligise if I offended anyone I am in the learning stages.
Aishaa.

[glo]

Do Christians ever realise that they are VERY DIFFERENT from Jews and Muslims?

It looks like Islam is a continuation of Judaism rather than of Christianity...

You know, the more I learn about Islam, the more I think that myself.

To me, as a Christian, it seems like Muhammed came and undid everything Jesus had come, lived and died for ... to largely return to the old Jewish laws.

Of course, as a Christian I believe that Jesus' ressurection rang in God's New Covenant with his people - which meant many of the old laws became obsolete (I won't go into that here ... there is another thread elsewhere)

That's exactly why I find the whole idea of Muhammed's teachings so implausable ... why would God make a new convenant, and then change his mind and go back to the old ways?
It doesn't make sense to me. :?

I don't think Islam is a continuation of Christianity. Personally, I think it is a return to the Judaic laws, which disregards and goes against what Jesus did for us.
(Just my personal view, of course. Please feel free to believe otherwise. :) )

peace :)

[InToTheRain]

:sl:

Islam is a continuation of the the religion followed by Adam(AS), Eve/Hawa(AS) and their Progeny.

Christianity is a religion built not around God, or His book - for there was no 'book' until 150 years after Jesus' death. Christianity became built around the personality of Jesus himself. By laying more and more stress upon the magnetic and wonderful personality of Jesus and unable and unwilling to describe the Prophet's effect upon all who came to him in everyday terms - more and more attributes are added to his reputation - a man who could perform miracles, bring back the dead to life, heal the leper, cure the blind - all by God's will, is indeed a wonderful man - blessed by God - born by God's will to do His service. But after his death, the 'magical' personality must be kept alive and 'Son of God' appears to suitably qualify all his actions.

Therefore we see that the Christians from an early age gave more priority to the miracles of Jesus and not keeping the original message or references.

[nishom]

Ansar.. I apoligise if you find me to be nagative I assure you I was not trying to be. Its not easy being a 46 year old Christian learning a very intracate and indepth religeon like Islam.. of course the first things I noticed are bound to be the differences. I have actually asked questions and opinions as well as state things ive noticed. I am not an expert and I dont try to be. I have only talked about what I have read so far. It was in fact my Muslim husband who told me Islam was a continuation which is why I posted the question.. Is Islam a continuation of Christianity? You mentioned I have not asked questions.. I have actually asked a few like the differences in the lives of Prophet Mohammed and Jesus and why are they so different if in fact they are both just human messengers. These were genuine questions.
You are right when you say I dont know enough.. which is exactly why I came here to discuss Islam,, the differences between the 2 religeons and to hear peoples opinions.
I have not meant to be offensive and I apoligise if I came accross that way. I am just trying to make sense out of the 2 religeons and why Islam came to be.
I will continue to read and like my husband says.. be careful not to read propaganda
With the help of Muslim friends and good sites like this Ill be able to learn more.. as I said in my post.. I ended with.. I learn every day.
Once again I apoligise if I offended anyone I am in the learning stages.
Aishaa.

SALAAM,

Try listening to Yusuf Estes' talks. He deals with a lot of these issues.He used to be a devout Christian preacher and knbows the Holy Bible relly really well.

Also try listening to Ahemd Deedat, Zakir Naik and Jamal Badawi. They also deal with the issue of Christianity and Islam.

Here are some useful websites where you can listen to these learned people.

www.islamtomorrow.com
www.aswatalialam.net
www.islamicaudios.net
www.islamicvideos.net

[Malaikah]

You say Jesus was not the son of God.. just a messenger.. so why then did he rise again? hard to do if youre just a man. The whole foundation of Christianity was the fact that Jesus proved who he was by his death and ressurection..

Based on this logic... was prophet Moses a God too? Didnt he have miracles of his own? Such as parting the sea etc..? :?

With all due respect.. If someone wanted to produce another religeon dismissing Christianity.. Whats the first thing you must do?.. Tell everyone that his death was fake. ONly then would people follow the new religeon.

This doesnt make any sense...:?

the testemonies of Aisha were not accepted by Islam because she was a woman..

Huh? How can this be true when Aisha is one of the top narrators of hadith? I dont know what kind of sources you are getting your information from, but her testimonies were accepted, as are the testimones of all women.

but none the less you have to read with interest about Prophet Mohammeds clear low opinion of women...

This is clearly not true, as when islam was revealed it elevated the status of women, rather then lowered it. Again i suggest that you stop reading from what seems to be anti-islamic sources.

IF Jesus and Mohammed were both soley messengers.. then why was Jesus born to a virgin.. yet Mohammed was not.. Why was Jesus given the gift of healing.. yet Mohammed was not..Why did Jesus stay pure.. while Mohammed had 9 wives.. one of them a child and had many concubines? Why is Mohammed in a grave.. while Jesus was called back to God? The differences between them are drasticly different.

You know whats even more amazing than being born to a virgin... the fact that prophet Adam was born with NO parents and that his wife was born from a man! Does that make those two Gods as well? Or is it, like the birth of Jesus, a miracle from God?

And what about Mary, his mother, shes the one who became pregnant even though she was a virgin... does that make her a God too?

All these things that you speak of a simply miracles given to the prophets by God. They didnt do themselves, rather God did the miracles through them. God have different prophets different miracles, its that simple.

I hope you understand where i am coming from, and that you see the flaw in your question.

:)

[duskiness]

Christianity is a religion built not around God, or His book

like ALL religions Christianity is ALL about God; but this statment is true, when it say's, that our faith is not a faith in Book:

Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.

- Catholic Church Catechism

- for there was no 'book' until 150 years after Jesus' death

of course you remember that first Paul's letter was wrtten around 50, and last Gospel no later then 110.

But after his death, the 'magical' personality must be kept alive and 'Son of God' appears to suitably qualify all his actions.

after His death His disciples were both disappionted by His death and scared of prosecution. Then something happened and everything changed, fishermens from Galilea preached in whole empire that He has risen, even when for this they were tortured and killed. What have changed them? We asnswer here, that they have seen HIM :)

back to subject:
Hello Aishaa!
I have to say that I agree with Glo:

I don't think Islam is a continuation of Christianity.

and Woodrow:

Islam is not a continuation of Christianity.

Muslims of course will say that are continuing Isa's message. We say obviously that we continue Jesus message. Maybe we should get used to referring to "Islam's Jesus" ONLY as "Isa", and "Christan's Isa" ONLY as "Jesus"???:?
Because it seems to me, we are so often NOT talking about the same person.
once again, welcome to a Islamicboard sister!
n.

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum Aishaa

I am told that Islam is a continuation of Christianity and that Christianity is not dismissed by Islam.. yet there are so many differences.

Islam allows for different degrees of worship according to difference in the set of knowledge that has been both studied and scientifically verified. Being fully converted in the sense of able to be held in Allah against any and every part of Qur'an, Gospel, and Torah; is not a teachable thing but experiential. No Moslem can expect of any other Moslem to comprehend the entireity of the teaching until that person is within their own experiential lesson that confirms the full teaching.

Christ said that violence in any form was wrong.. to turn the other cheek.. he also said to live by the sword is to die by the sword.. yet Prophet Mohammed was a leader of an entire army.

The Prophets army at all times were that they died by the sword if they lived by the sword. Even if not killed in bloodshed of war, taking unto their own death that blood was shed. [/QUOTE]

Jesus forgave a woman who was to be stoned to death and told people.. LEt he without sin cast the first stone.. no-one did because they knew they had all sinned in their own ways.. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more....Yet in the Quoran clearly talks about brutal punnishments that certain countries still practice today.

The punishments are not for those whom are equally guilty of to enforce; and in Islam they can not. If there are persons guilty whom enforce punishment for what they are guilty of they only show themselves up as not in true Islam.

Jeus told us to drink red wine and take bread to remember him.. yet in Islam ALL alcahol is forbidden STrangely enough.. as a healer as Jesus was.. healing properties have been found in red wine.

The healing property in red wine is able to be supplanted by other substances in the anti-oxidant range of matter. Other healing property in red wine is only in the fact of it being causal to a portion of brain damage so when it had been prescribed by Jesus it was for isolated instances in which the mind might forget one thing only within providence of better by Jesus. Also, the teaching He provided was before his knowledge of The Dajjal and that The Behemoth and The Dajjal (the beasts in Revelations chapter 13) utilise alcohol for their own purposes; thereby having made alcohol more dangerous since Jesus time. Additionally the fact of the Holy Communition utilising red wine is not truly adherent to the original and many modern churches are actualising use of non-alcoholic grape juice.

Jesus said.. one woman for one man.. and all thier properties to be shared.. in the marriage ceremony of a Christian wedding.. the words are.. All what I have I share with you.. all what I am I give to you. Yet in Islam the wife only takes a share of an entire lifes worth when her husband dies and he can also have up to 4 wives.

I think you might find that in the matter of a marriage Jesus relied upon Torah to a large extent since the teaching of Torah then needed less further clarity in the matter of marriage than it needed in other matters. But also I will manifest that I am not a scholar so can not immediately point to, but that surely these are not the only statements Jesus made about marriage. Also I am not at all sure by what you intented to portray by "only takes a share of an entire lifes worth"; since who could want more than that?

.. well Christianity didnt work so he talked to prophet Mohammed.. God in my mind does NOT make mistakes.
Id love to hear some other view points on this.

Quite correct, Allah made no mistake. Jesus tried a specific approach to correcting Human mistakes and he proved only that many are too deluded about themself to readily accept that teaching. Jesus did prove need for Islam.

Assalam Alaikum rvq

[DigitalStorm82]

Greetings Sis,

Christians changed Christianity so therfore envoked God to yet again send another messenger. How did this happen?

Prophet Muhammad is promised in the Bible... God sent messengers to all people in the world...for example.. Moses was in egypt...Jesus to Bethleham... but Mohammad is for all of mankind because he is the LAST of the messengers...read further at the link below.

http://islam-universe.com/The_Prophe...the_Bible.html

Christianity is based on what happened when it happened, everything Jesus said was recorded AT THE TIME.. and not written years after his death or through memory as I believe the teachings of Prophet Mohammed was.. forgive me if I am wrong but this is what I have learnt

Actually, the Quran was complete during the life time of the Prophet Mohammad... It is recorded in history... and even logically if you think about it... It was the arabs who invented paper so for them to not write it on paper is strange... and Prophet Mohammad came after Jesus, so there were many advancements in literature and in everything actually compared to the previous centuries.

Believe it or not, Popes have changed the Bible of today from the Bible of the past... if you want to know more... research a little about the enlightenment age and the time period sourround Pope regiems... We have so many versions of the Bible today, whereas there is only ONE version of the Quran. ANYWHERE in the world you go... there is only one book... and its letter to letter iIdentical... and that is the Quran.

No one in the world can change the Quran, you know why? Because people have memorized it word for word during the time of the prophet till now... so if you change the Quran... it is spotted immediately. That is why you may see different things between Islam and Christianity... Otherwise, it is the same message Jesus(as) and Mohammad (sws) preached... and we believe Jesus will return to lead the Muslims... very detailed description of the events to come are also given... but I won't get into that..

You say Jesus was not the son of God.. just a messenger.. so why then did he rise again? hard to do if youre just a man. The whole foundation of Christianity was the fact that Jesus proved who he was by his death and ressurection.. With all due respect.. If someone wanted to produce another religeon dismissing Christianity.. Whats the first thing you must do?.. Tell everyone that his death was fake. ONly then would people follow the new religeon.

We as Muslims don't believe he rose from the dead... we believe that God raised him up to the heavens because the people were not listening to him... that is why he said "ye evil and adultrous generation, you seekth here for a sign.. no sign shall be given to you except the sign of Jona" but the point is that people went astray and made their own conclusions... As far as his ressurrection... I wont say anything because you believe what you believe... Quran is the final book sent by God to affirm the previous messengers and guide the people to the One God. Did you know that the bible doesn't even mention the word trinity? But Quran does?

I have an English version of the Quoran which I read with intrest, I also read a lot.. the testemonies of Aisha were not accepted by Islam because she was a woman

This is totally false, I don't know where you heard that from. Aisha (rad) is the role model for muslim women... that is totally wrong.

but none the less you have to read with interest about Prophet Mohammeds clear low opinion of women... Jesus never married let alone 9 wives and certainly never married a child.

Ok, I know a lot of people raise this question why Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old... this is a misconnception... she was not 9... many people think she was 9, but in reality she was 13-15 because she took part in a battle in which no one is allowed to participate unless their the age of 15. And at the age of 15, it was common practice get married early... because they didn't live long as we do now... If you want to read more about it.. I can provide a link... And as far as his wives... I already explained in my previous post why multiple wives are allowed... Islam didn't come to suppress women, it actually came to liberate them... at the time of his revelations, people in makkah were burrying the females alive... there was much prostitution and slavery... Islam gives rights to women not take them away. Quran explicitly states, if you cannot be just to your wives, then you cannot marry more than one.

IF Jesus and Mohammed were both soley messengers.. then why was Jesus born to a virgin.. yet Mohammed was not.. Why was Jesus given the gift of healing.. yet Mohammed was not..Why did Jesus stay pure.. while Mohammed had 9 wives.. one of them a child and had many concubines? Why is Mohammed in a grave.. while Jesus was called back to God? The differences between them are drasticly different.

Jesus was born to virgin marry (may Allah be pleased with her) beause Allah willed it so... Just because Jesus was born to a virgin doesn't make him divine... God is capable of anything... even creating life without a male partner... As far as miracles are concerned... each prophet had their own miracles... like Moses parted the sea.. why didn't Jesus? You see... where Jesus lived people needed cures and Jesus provided them with the will of Allah and with His permission..

Jesus too will return to earth.... live out his life and be burried next to Mohammad... there is a place reserved for him. I suggest you read Chapter 19 of the Quran and read hadith (sayings of the prophet) regarding Jesus (Isa).

I am leaning it from the beginning and studying every aspect.. not just falling in to it blindly lead by people who just want me to convert to a religeon I know not a lot about. In Fact I wonder how many people who are in the religeon follow it because their family and friends do.. and only study the Quoran,,, theres so much more to this religeon than meets the eye. PLease take everything I have said with respect as I learn day by day.

No one can force you to you convert to Islam... There is no compulsion in the religion of Islam... as stated in Quran.

Take your time.. learn about Islam.. and decide for yourself.

Peace be with you.

[azim]

Asalaamu alaykum.

The difference between Islam and Christianity isn't the teachings of Jesus, because even in the Bible, the teaching of Jesus are the same as those of the OT.

Refer to Matthew 17-19: -

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Aisha mentioned the story of Jesus and the Mary who was about to be stoned, followed by the famous words "let him with no sin cast the first stone".

Yet Jesus never once said anything about the abolishment of the OT laws, he followed them, and as you can see, he urged his followers to follow them too.

So why is Islam and Christianity so apparently different? It's simple, its one man. St. Paul. He abolished the laws and remade Christianity. If tomorrow you were to ignore the teachings of St. Paul and followed ONLY Jesus, then you'd find yourself following something so close to Islam.

Glo - you mentioned that you found it implausible that God would make a new covenant and then undo it with Muhammad (pbuh). But don't you see God didn't make that new covenant - St. Paul did. There has only ever been one covenant - to believe in God and to follow his messenger. The teachings of all the Prophets of the same, and we make no distinction between them. But St. Paul was never a prophet and we will never accept him. By the quote shown above, Jesus calls St. Paul (and anyone else who changes the laws) "the lowest in the kingdom of heaven".

Peace.

[Aishaa]

[


This is clearly not true, as when islam was revealed it elevated the status of women, rather then lowered it. Again i suggest that you stop reading from what seems to be anti-islamic sources.



How can Muslims say that Mohammed elevated the status of women? We only have to look at how he took Jewish women such as Safia Bint Huyay. Mohhamed took her for himself after killing her tribe, Women were regarded as booty you can read about this full story for yourself (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, pp. 120-123).
This is clearly not an anti Islamic source.

anyway.. back to the subject...I hear that all the prophets come with the same messages from God.. yet its the people who change the messages.. I also hear that Christianity WAS Islam that was altered by the people and the bible...so therefore.. Islam is a continuation of Christianity.. it doesnt make any sense to say that it isnt if Islam existed before and after Christianity. IF it isnt.. what was Christianity?

[azim]

[


This is clearly not true, as when islam was revealed it elevated the status of women, rather then lowered it. Again i suggest that you stop reading from what seems to be anti-islamic sources.



How can Muslims say that Mohammed elevated the status of women? We only have to look at how he took Jewish women such as Safia Bint Huyay. Mohhamed took her for himself after killing her tribe, Women were regarded as booty you can read about this full story for yourself (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, pp. 120-123).
This is clearly not an anti Islamic source.

anyway.. back to the subject...I hear that all the prophets come with the same messages from God.. yet its the people who change the messages.. I also hear that Christianity WAS Islam that was altered by the people and the bible...so therefore.. Islam is a continuation of Christianity.. it doesnt make any sense to say that it isnt if Islam existed before and after Christianity. IF it isnt.. what was Christianity?

Regarding Safia Bint Huyay - are you asking, quoting, defending? I'm not too sure what the question (if there is one) is.

Regarding Islam and Christianity.

You have to understand the world Islam - it means "submission to God's will". It also includes meanings such as 'peace' and 'serenity' as a product of Islam.

Will you say that the Prophet's were in 'submission to God's will'? Yes, of course they were. And they taught mankind to submit to God's will as well. In fact, as Yusuf Estes (see www.islamalways.com) points out, the teaching of submission to God's will is in the Lord's prayer : -

"your will on earth as it is in heaven".

So when we say Islam existed before Christianity, we refer to the fact that mankind is born in submission to God (and not with the original sin), and that all the Prophets, from Adam, Abraham to Jesus were in 'submission to God's will'.

It is not 100% correct to say Islam is a continuation of Christianity because it assumes Christianity is correct. By Islamic standards of monotheism - Christianity is polytheistic (due to the trinity).

Rather, it is better to think of Islam revealed through the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a 'reformation' of the previous messages 'confirmation' of the previous Prophets.

Peace.

[DigitalStorm82]

If you take a slave girl as your sexual partner... you have to treat her like a wife... and Prophet Mohammad married his slave after she reverted to Islam.

Do you know what the christian crusaders did after they captured the city? raped all women and then killed every single one including the women and children and the elderly.

So how is that justified in the name God? how were they any different from gengis khan who raped and plundered everything he came across? Whats so different between them and barbarians?

Islam gave them rights.. Islam allowed interfaith cities... religious freedom. You've been decieved by the media and stories of people.

Christianity means... followers of christ..

Why isn't islam called Mohammadism? followers of Mohammad. Because God chose this religion for us.. not some guy.

Christ preached the message of One God... read it in your bible.. Mark 12:29... Just like all the prophets that came before Mohammad (sws).

Whether its continuation of christianity or not... it doesn't matter.. you need to look at the message they both preached.. It's the same message.

If you want to watch some videos refuting whether Jesus was even crucified look at these...

Part 1 - Was Jesus really crucified?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rucified&hl=en

Part 2 - Was Jesus really crucified?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...kir+naik&hl=en

Also if you really want to know whether Islam raises the status of women or not... look at this video

Part 1 - Women rights in Islam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...in+islam&hl=en

Part 2 - Women rights in Islam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...in+islam&hl=en


check out this link if you want a complete list of videos.. if you have any problems watching them.. let me know.
http://www.irf.net/irf/videogallery/index.htm

peace

[duskiness]

Do you know what the christian crusaders did after they captured the city? raped all women and then killed every single one including the women and children and the elderly.

What has it to do with Jesus or Muhammed? Are you thinking this will put Muhammed it "better light"? Are we discussing crimes commited by Christians?
You know too good that's a long subject! Probably as long as the one about crimes committed by Muslim. Adherents of all faiths commited such things. Not only Christians.
It is often said that we shouldn't hold Islam guilty of terrorism. Please do the same for us. Don't hold our faith gulity of all crimes we have done. And as you know Jesus DIDN'T fight. Unlike Muhammed.. And i think that was Aishaas point - more or less...

So how is that justified in the name God?

it wasn't. But many people comite crimes with God's name on their lips.

Christianity means... followers of christ.

I'm not sure but i think "christian" means "belonging to Christ". And this name was given to us by pogans in Antioch
n.

[Keltoi]

Islam and Christianity seem fairly incompatible as far as religious belief and traditions. Mostly because of what glo has mentioned, which is that Jesus formed a new covenant and Islam seems to return to the old Judaic Law. That doesn't mean Christianity and Islam cannot co-exist, which they obviously can. I think the problem arises when we start questioning the beliefs of the other faith. I don't mean educational questions or honest dialogue, I mean the "This is what my God says so your God is obviously false" sort of questioning. We must accept that we are followers of the same God, and followers of God should never hate each other.

[جوري]

What has it to do with Jesus or Muhammed? Are you thinking this will put Muhammed it "better light"? Are we discussing crimes commited by Christians?
You know too good that's a long subject! Probably as long as the one about crimes committed by Muslim. Adherents of all faiths commited such things. Not only Christians.
It is often said that we shouldn't hold Islam guilty of terrorism. Please do the same for us. Don't hold our faith gulity of all crimes we have done. And as you know Jesus DIDN'T fight. Unlike Muhammed.. And i think that was Aishaas point - more or less...
it wasn't. But many people comite crimes with God's name on their lips.
I'm not sure but i think "christian" means "belonging to Christ". And this name was given to us by pogans in Antioch
n.

Actually , I can't seem to visit a board without the topic of Islam/bombing and terrorism seem to be entwined... So yes it is a daily occurance and people are judging!....Thing is it is all a smoke screen for all the oppressions and crap going on in the world.... just read today's headlines of how Marines in his patrol seized an Iraqi civilian from his home, threw him into a hole and put at least 10 bullets in his head and chest after growing frustrated in their search for an insurgent. Not to mention the desecration of the Quran by drawing crosses on them, or urinating on them ... is it because no Islamic media is coming out and stating Christian terrorists are doing that, that we assume they are just a bunch of riffraff ?well, I am not sure they are, it is clearly a holy war. or is it because every media that speaks for Islam or Muslims is considered a terrorist organization?....I am not really sure what Muslims are guilty of as no one has proven to me without a doubt that they are indeed behind the atrocities, with discernible proofs. I can't imagine why any Muslim a true Muslim would go on bombing a building with civilians in it?....
Thing is what most Christians don't seem to understand, is that Muslims have utmost respect for all of God's messengers, Jesus included.... None of us have to go around MALIGNING, his character, to prove, that Islam is the true religion. unlike the bazillion website that pop out every with the most unspeakable falsities about Islam and Muslims.

Keltoi for what it is worth I actually agree with you on this one!

[جوري]

http://www.amazon.com/Muslim-Jesus-L...e=UTF8&s=books
Aisha here is a good book for you!

[Aishaa]

http://www.amazon.com/Muslim-Jesus-L...e=UTF8&s=books
Aisha here is a good book for you!

Actually , I can't seem to visit a board without the topic of Islam/bombing and terrorism seem to be entwined... So yes it is a daily occurance and people are judging!....Thing is it is all a smoke screen for all the oppressions and crap going on in the world.... just read today's headlines of how Marines in his patrol seized an Iraqi civilian from his home, threw him into a hole and put at least 10 bullets in his head and chest after growing frustrated in their search for an insurgent. Not to mention the desecration of the Quran by drawing crosses on them, or urinating on them ... is it because no Islamic media is coming out and stating Christian terrorists are doing that, that we assume they are just a bunch of riffraff ?well, I am not sure they are, it is clearly a holy war. or is it because every media that speaks for Islam or Muslims is considered a terrorist organization?....I am not really sure what Muslims are guilty of as no one has proven to me without a doubt that they are indeed behind the atrocities, with discernible proofs. I can't imagine why any Muslim a true Muslim would go on bombing a building with civilians in it?....
Thing is what most Christians don't seem to understand, is that Muslims have utmost respect for all of God's messengers, Jesus included.... None of us have to go around MALIGNING, his character, to prove, that Islam is the true religion. unlike the bazillion website that pop out every with the most unspeakable falsities about Islam and Muslims.

Keltoi for what it is worth I actually agree with you on this one!

Well firstly, I must say that the people in jails who were suspected charged etc for these crimes were not scandanavian Christians! with names like sven or john.. they are Muslims who have admitted thier parts in it. They say they are in a holy war against the west. This again is a clear difference between Islam and Christianity, The Quoran states in many places about killing the unbelievers. ´Smite them at thier necks ´ I am lead to believe is one such part of a Surat. Jesus clearly taught peace and invited people to follow him He did not give the ultimatum Conform or die. More evidence is found by training schools training Muslims to be suicide bombers. The evidence is emmence and if you dont think that Muslims did these things.. then who do you think did Id like to know.
Also.. People in Christianity can leave and conform to another religeon if they choose to.. The choice is there. Islam welcomes Christians to conform.. but then makes it against Islamic law to leave the religeon. Anyway.. I dont wish the thread to go too far in to attacks and crimes as this is not the point of the discussion, we are discussing the differences between the two religeons and whether Islam is in fact a continuation of Christianity.

Digital Storm.. you say that if a slave girl is used sexually then he must marry her.. is this in some way enslaving her as a concubine?

Speaking of carnal desires,, sex is mentioned a few times in the Quoran,a woman should be ready at all times for her husband for instance. This is not at all a fair or respectful thing to wish upon a woman. Jesus did not teach such clear chauvanism. Islam says the Jesus is a recognised messenger and that the message was the same, but there seems to be massive differences between Jesus´s life and Mohammed´s life and thier teachings.

[جوري]

I suggest you reread your bible then and its views on women/ sex/ subservience... I can't be embroiled in this affair as it is clear you are not really interested in abridging differences... I am rather surprised you are married to a Muslim? for many reasons really! ... one of which... how come he didn't take the time to explain to you the verses in the Quran in the very least? that you have to come here with supreme vehemence and utmost hostility seeking clarification?

Some views from the bible including views on women/ polygmy and so-called peace... if you feel like they have been taken out of context... then by all means try to apply the same logic to your understanding of Islam
peace


polygmy in bible

Gen.4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives.

Gen.16:1-4 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

Gen.25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had....

Gen.26:34 Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite.

Gen.28:9 Esau .. took ... Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael ... to be his wife.

Gen.31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels.

Ex.21:10 If he take him another wife....

Dt.21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

1 Sam.1:1-2 Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah.

2 Sam.12:7-8 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

1 Kg.11:2-3 Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

1 Chr.4:5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah.

2 Chr.11:21 Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.

2 Chr.13:21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives....

2 Chr.24:3 Jehoiada took for him two wives....

Mt.25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

1 Tim.3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife....

Titus 1:6-7 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


violence in the bible

1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery.

Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Cal Thomas, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith s scriptures and history before accusing Islam s Quran of promoting violence.


But to bring a sword
[Categories: Doctrines and teachings of Jesus]

I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword is one of the reported sayings of (A teacher and prophet born in Bethlehem and active in Nazareth; his life and sermons form the basis for Christianity (circa 4 BC - AD 29)) Jesus in the (The sacred writings of the Christian religions) Bible. It is a common case of confusion dealing with understanding Christian parables. In ((New Testament) disciple of Jesus; traditionally considered to be the author of the first Gospel) Matthew 10:34-36
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."Similarly, in the (One of the four Gospels in the New Testament; contains details of Jesus's birth and early life) Gospel of Luke, 12:51-52 ( Jesus says:
"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three..."

of women
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Is.3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

1 Cor.11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

1 Cor.14:34-36 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Eph.5:22-24 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

Col.3:18 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

1 Tim.2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing

1 Pet.3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."

[snakelegs]

aishaa,
i am neither christian or muslim so if i say something wrong i'm sure a muslim will make necessary corrections.
i also find islam much closer to judaism. christianity brought in some foreign elements (maybe from the greeks?) - such as god having a son, the divinity of jesus, the sacrifice of jesus dying for humanity's sins, the resurrection, etc.
islam's position is that there was only islam. so the bible and the new testament were also islam, but they were changed by people over the years so to put things "back on track" god revealed the qur'an to muhammad.
muslims, unlike jews, do revere jesus and consider him very important, but do not regard him as divine.
so, i guess it would be correct to say islam is not a continuation of anything, but a returning to the original.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

How did this happen?.. as Christianity is based on what happened when it happened, everything Jesus said was recorded AT THE TIME..

Actually the 4 gospels were written between 68CE and 110CE and remained anonymous until 180 CE until they were attributed to 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke' and 'John', the earliest of whom (Mark) never even saw the historical Jesus.

as I believe the teachings of Prophet Mohammed was

False. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh has over 60 scribes writing down the Qur'anic revelations for him and his companions used to record his teachings as well.

the testemonies of Aisha were not accepted by Islam because she was a woman..

Again, shows your ignorance. Aisha rd was one of the MOST prolific narrators of Ahâdîth, having narrated an astounding total of 2210 Ahâdîth!! So Muslim have 2210 of her testimonies which we follow and implement. Even in her lifetime she was known for providing religious rulings and knowledge.

but none the less you have to read with interest about Prophet Mohammeds clear low opinion of women

Why don't YOU read the teachings of Prophet Muhammad for yourself. THIS is what Prophet Muhammad pbuh taught about women:

Women in the Sunnah

There is certainly no shortage of statements from the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which honor women and promote their rights, beginning with the explicit mandate: 'I command you to be kind to women.' (Sahîh Bukhârî).

He often described a man's treatment of women to be reflective of his own nobility or worth. The Prophet said: 'None but a noble man treats women in an honorable manner. And none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and the best of you are those who are best to their wives.' (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet said: 'The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in moral excellence, and the best of you are the kindest to their wives. (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Muslims are commanded to always follow the example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In light of this, the Prophet said: 'The best of you is the one who is best to his wife. I am the best of you to his wife and I'm the best to my wife.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ad-Dârimî, Sahîh Ibn Hibbân)

There is no one who could describe better about how the Prophet (peace be upon) was with his wives, then the latter themselves. A'isha, the wife of the Prophet, was asked, "What did the Prophet used to do at home?" She answered, "he kept himself busy helping the members of his household, and when the time for prayer came, he would go out for the prayer". (Sahîh Bukhârî). The Prophet Muhammad participated in the household chores and helped his wives. "He would attend to his clothes, milk his sheep and serve himself." (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet advised one of his companions, Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'Aas, who used to fast all day and pray all night: 'Do not do that. Fast and break your fast, pray qiyaam and sleep, for your body has a right over you, your eyes have a right over you, your wife has a right over you and your visitors have a right over you.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

The Prophet censured those who quarreled with their wives, describing them as being driven by the most evil of devils:

"Iblîs (Satan) sets up his throne on water, then he sends out his armies of devils (to incite humans to do evil). The closest to him of these troops are the ones who cause the most tribulation. One devil comes and says, 'I have done such and such.' Iblîs says, 'You have not done enough.' Then another one comes and says, 'I never left him alone until I created trouble and caused division between him and his wife.' Then Iblîs comes close to this devil and says, 'How excellent you are!' " (Sahîh Muslim)

Likewise, the Prophet denounced those men who were unfaithful regarding their wives' secrets:

'Verily among the most evil of people with Allah in ranking on the Day of Resurrection is a man who goes to his wife and whose wife goes to him, and then he spreads her secrets.' (Sahîh Muslim, Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abû Dawûd)

Prophet Muhammad forbade hostility towards one's wife: 'The believer should not harbor hatred towards his wife. If he dislikes something in her, then surely he will be pleased with another quality in her.' (Sahîh Muslim)

Instead, he encouraged both men and women to be patient with their spouses: 'If any man shows patience with his wife's bad temper, Allah will give him a reward similar to the reward of Ayyub for his patience, and if any woman shows patience with her husband's bad temper, Allah will give her a reward similar to the reward of Asiyah daughter of Muzahim, the wife of Pharoah (Cf. Qur'an 66:11).' (Al-Kabâ'ir of Adh-Dhahabî)

The Prophet encouraged couples to enjoy time together: 'All activities of a man in which there is no mention of God are frivolity, except for four things: A man enjoying time with his wife, training his horse, walking between two purposeful goals, and teaching another man to swim.' (Sunan An-Nasâ'î, Mu'jam At-Tabarânî)

He spoke of the mutual rights of men and women on many occasions: 'Consult with women. Indeed, you have some rights over your women and they have some rights over you. It is their right on you that you provide for their food and clothing generously, and your right on them is that they do not let anyone whom you dislike in the house, walking upon your floor. (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

And he said concerning the virtuous woman:
'The life of this world is bountiful, and the best of bounties is the righteous woman.' (Sahîh Muslim)

Perhaps the clearest example of Islam's honoring of women is in its directives for man to be dutiful to his mother. The Prophet said in a famous narration: 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

Scholars have proven the preference of the mother over the father from the following narration:
A man came to Prophet Muhammad asking “ O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company?” The Prophet said “Your mother”. The man said “then who else?” The Prophet said “Your mother”. The man asked, “then who else?” The Prophet replied “Your mother” When the man asked for the fourth time, only then did the Prophet say, “Your father” ( Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

The Prophet did not stop at commanding kindness to wives and honoring one's mother. He continually singled out daughters when emphasizing the good treatment of one's children. The Prophet said: 'Anyone who cares for three daughter, gives them a good upbringing, marries them to good husbands and treats them well, they will enter paradise. The companions asked, "What about two daughters?" He said, "Even two daughters". They asked what about one daughter? He said "even one". (Sunan Abi Dawûd, Musnad Ahmad, Mustadarak Al-Hâkim). It is significant that in the above narration, the Prophet has promised nothing short of paradise to the believer on account of good treatment to women. Can there be any weightier statement in favor of women?

The Prophet explictly forbade any gender bias towards one's children, though it was prevalent in pre-islamic arabian culture. The Prophet said: 'Whoever has a daughter born to him, and he did not prefer his son over him, Allah will admit him to Paradise because of her.' (Mustadarak Al-Hâkim)

The Prophet also extended honorable treatment to include one's sisters in addition to daughters: 'There is no one who has three daughters, or three sisters, and he treats them well, but Allah will admit him/her to Paradise.' (Al-Adab Al-Mufrad of Bukhârî)

The Prophet said: 'There is no one among my ummah who has three daughters, or three sisters, and he supports them until they are grown up, but he will be with me in Paradise like this – and he held up his index and middle fingers together.' (Mu'jam At-Tabarânî)

Thus, the Prophet not only made virtuous treatment of women a path to paradise, but he said it would bring one close to the Prophet himself in paradise.

In another narration, the Prophet Muhammad said that a believing woman's sacrifice for he daughters was a cause for her entrance to paradise. A'isha, the wife of the Prophet (peace be upon him), said: 'A poor woman came to me carrying her two daughters. I gave her three dates to eat. She gave each child a date, and raised the third to her own mouth to eat it. Her daughters asked her to give it to them, so she split the date that she had wanted to eat between them. I was impressed by what she had done, and told the Messenger of Allah about it. He said, “Allah has decreed Paradise for her because of it”.' (Sahîh Muslim)

At a time when a woman was valued only for material benefits or superficial qualities, the Prophet Muhammad taught his companions to value women for their piety. The Prophet said: 'A woman is married for four reasons: for her property, her status, her beauty, and her religion; so marry one who is religious, may you be blessed.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

The Prophet also said: 'Whoever Allah has blessed with a virtuous woman has been helped with half of his religion. So let him be mindful of God concerning the remaining half.' (Mu'jam At-Tabarânî, Mustadarak Al-Hâkim)

He also upheld women's right in choosing their spouse, as seen in the following narration:
Al-Khansaa’ bint Khidaam complained to the Prophet that her father wanted her to marry someone she didn’t want, saying “I do not wish to accept what my father has arranged.” The Prophet said, “Then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.” Al-Khansaa’ said, “I have actually accepted what my father has arranged, but I wanted women to know that fathers have no right in their daughter’s matters” (i.e. they have no right to force a marriage on them). (Fath Al-Barî Ibn Hajr, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

The Prophet said: 'Assuredly, women are the twin halves of men.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Musnad Ahmad).

In light of the numerous teachings honoring women, it would be no exaggeration to say that the greatest advocate of women's rights was none other than the Prophet Muhammad himself, peace be upon him.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...bsection=Women

let alone 9 wives and certainly never married a child.

Another myth refuted here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...phet-pbuh.html

IF Jesus and Mohammed were both soley messengers.. then why was Jesus born to a virgin.. yet Mohammed was not..

Why were Moses and Muhammad spoken to by God directly why Jesus was not? Why will Moses and Muhammad pbuh be the first risen on the Day of Resurrection and not Jesus? Why was Adam created directly by God, an honor not bestowed uoon any other human being after him? God honors ALL his prophets and Messengers in different ways.

Why was Jesus given the gift of healing.. yet Mohammed was not

False. Prophet Muhammad pbuh cured MANY people miraculously. By God's will, he immediately healed the broken leg of Abdullah ibn 'Atîq, the wound leg of Salama Ibn Al-Akwa, the eye inflammation of 'Alî ibn Abî Tâlib, the bleeding wound of Al-Harith Ibn Aws, and the eye of Qatâdah Ibn An-Nu'man which had been wounded so severely that it had prolapsed onto his cheek. After being healed, from that day on he could not tell which eye was the one that had been wounded since it was perfectly restored.

Jesus will return and will marry like all the other Prophets and he will die. And I've alread addressed the allegation about the marriage of Prophet Muhammad saws above.

It leaves a person like myself very confused as I learn Islam..

You're not learning about Islam; you're posting dozens of baseless anti-islamic allegations.

Ansar.. I apoligise if you find me to be nagative I assure you I was not trying to be.

Your comments indicate otherwise. Instead of asking what the Prophet pbuh taught about women, you make allegations about his teachings and yet we have seen the voluminous amount of evidence against you which shows that the Prophet pbuh honored women and elevated their status beyond any other religion or system, even today.

You mentioned I have not asked questions.. I have actually asked a few like the differences in the lives of Prophet Mohammed and Jesus and why are they so different if in fact they are both just human messengers. These were genuine questions.

No they are not. They are assertions placed in the format of a question. The statement, "Why did Muhammad not perform any miraculous healing?" is not a genuine question, you are making the assertion that he did not miraculously heal people, whereas the reality, as we have seen, is that MANY people were miraculously healed at his hands, by the will of God.

You are right when you say I dont know enough.. which is exactly why I came here to discuss Islam

If you really wanted to discuss you would STICK TO ONE TOPIC. That way you could learn more and understand that issue before proceeding to another one. Instead, you throw dozens of allegations all at once in the hope that your opponents will not be able to give each issue its due attention and sufficient explanation.

I have not meant to be offensive and I apoligise if I came accross that way.

I'm not interested in your apology; it is meaningless if you repeat the same behavior that you are apoologizing for. Why not ask about 1 issue at a time and then discuss that? What are you afraid of?

We only have to look at how he took Jewish women such as Safia Bint Huyay.

Yes, read all the information rather than selective misquotations from anti-islamic sources.
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archi...e-of-muhammad/

Safiyyah was the daughter of Huyayy ibn Akhtab, the undisputed leader of the Banu al-Nadir as well as a Jewish rabbi. Hence, she was of noble regal and rabbinical heritage. She became a captive of the Muslims when they seized al-Qamus, the fortress of Khaybar. When a Companion of the Prophet(P) heard of Safiyyah’s captivity, he approached the Prophet(P) with a suggestion that since she was a lady of Banu al-Nadir, only the Prophet(P) was fit enough to marry her. The Prophet(P) agreed to this suggestion and hence granted her freedom and married her.
This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honour for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave. Haykal notes that:

The Prophet granted her freedom and then married her, following the examples of great conquerors who married the daughters and wives of the kings whom they had conquered, partly in order to alleviate their tragedy and partly to preserve their dignity.1

The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. John L. Esposito notes that

As was customary for Arab chiefs, many were political marriages to cement alliances. Others were marriages to the widows of his companions who had fallen in combat and were in need of protection.2

Indeed, when Bilal ibn Rabah(R), a Companion of the Prophet, brought Safiyyah along with another Jewess before him(P) by passing through the Jews that were slain in the battle, Muhammad(P) personally chided Bilal and said “Have you no compassion, Bilal, when you brought two women past their dead husbands?”3
As for the accusation that Safiyyah was coerced into marriage or taken advantage of, as alleged by a known Islamophobic, this claim has no basis at all. It is known that Safiyyah(R) remained loyal to the Prophet until he passed away.4 We have in fact the Prophet(P) making the following offer to her, as recorded by Martin Lings:

He [the Prophet Muhammad - Ed.] then told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free, and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. “I choose God and His Messenger,” she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march.5

The other wives of the Prophet(P) used to show their jealousy of her by making slights upon her Jewish origin. But the Prophet(P) always defended her. Once Safiyyah was vexed to the extreme by the taunts of all the Arab wives of the Prophet(P). She took the complaint to the Prophet(P), who felt great compassion for her. He consoled and encouraged her. He equipped her with logic by saying: “Safiyyah, take courage and be bold. They are in no way superior to you. Tell them: I am a daughter of the Prophet Harun, a niece of the Prophet Musa, and a wife of the Prophet Muhammad”. This is thus an excellent example of the Prophet Muhammad(P) trying to wipe out pre-Islamic anti-Semitism amongst the Arabs.
Conclusion
With the evidences laid bare before us, we do not see the justification of accusing the Prophet(P) of being a “rapist”, as those anti-Islamic critics allege. That the Prophet(P) himself married Safiyyah(R) so as to avoid the certainty of her being a slave of the Muslims and helped her to defend herself from the taunts of her co-wives is enough proof that the Prophet(P) was a man of exemplary conduct and remained honourable even to relatives of his most bitter foes.

And only God knows best.

1. Muhammad Husayn Haykal, The Life of Muhammad (North American Trust Publications, 1976), p. 373 [back]
2. John L. Esposito, Islam: The Straight Path, pp. 19-20 [back]
3. A. Guillaume (trans.), The Life of Muhammad: A translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah (Oxford University Press, 1978), p. 515 [back]
4. An account of how Safiyyah’s loyalty was affirmed by the Prophet(P) himself is recorded in Muhammad Husayn Haykal, op. cit., p. 374, of which an online document can be found. [back]
5. Martin Lings, Muhammad: His Life Based On The Earliest Sources (George Allen & Unwin, 1983), p. 269 [back]

you can read about this full story for yourself (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, pp. 120-123).
This is clearly not an anti Islamic source.

You've just shot yourself in the foot! You are referencing an arabic source on Sîrah - do you know about Mustalah al-Hadîth? Do you even know arabic? If not, then you have not read what is written in Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd yourself, only some selective quotation or translation on an anti-islamic site. You should know that with the books of Sîrah there are many types of narrations in them including the fabricated, weak, and the authentic. The Sahîh books of Sunnah are the ones whose narrations have been authenticated.

so therefore.. Islam is a continuation of Christianity.. it doesnt make any sense to say that it isnt if Islam existed before and after Christianity. IF it isnt.. what was Christianity?

Christianity was the pervesrion of Islamic teachings after Prophet Jesus pbuh. 'Christianity' itself is a name that comes from the derogatory label used by pagan disbelievers for the followers of Christ. Islam has always existed so it can in no sense be considered 'a continuation of Christianity'.

he Quoran states in many places about killing the unbelievers. ´Smite them at thier necks´ I am lead to believe is one such part of a Surat.

Pathetic misquotations again.
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...sconceptions#5

Once again a poor translation serves the purpose of the Islam-haters very well. Let us examine a more accurate translation before analyzing the verse:

47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers in battle, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

So we now see some grievous mistakes made in the poor translation quoted. 1. The verse makes NO mention whatsoever of "killing and wounding" 2. "Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam " is a complete addition to the verse and is not found anywhere in the Qur'an! 3. That verse does not use the word Jihad at all It is very clear that the context of this verse is in battle, and when in battle the defenders of humanity should attack the unjust oppressors until they are subdued. Professor Shahul Hameed comments on verse 47:4 by saying:

The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of endurance and patience, the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Makkah and to emigrate to Madinah. When the people of Madinah had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Makkans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr. It was just before this that Muhammad received the revelation from God to fight: {And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.} (Al-Baqarah 2:190)
This meant that the Prophet and his companions were not to start the fighting; but to defend themselves against aggressors. That was how fighting was ordained; but we must know that once we fight, we fight to defeat the aggressors, so that we can live without fear of molestation and invasion; so that we can live in peace; so that justice is done. Remember God does not command any one to start fighting; rather He permits people to fight in self defence or for the defence of those who are attacked unjustly. (SOURCE)

The historical context again illustrates a condition of constant struggle and war. In such a condition, God reassures the believers that He is with them, and to therefore have full faith, strength and bravery in battle and not to cower from the enemy. As Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:

When once the fight (Jihad) is entered upon, carry it out with the utmost vigour… (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary )

Likewise, Dr. Maher Hathout writes:

Clearly, these verses are applicable in the heat of battle and against an aggressive combating force. (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, p.49)

Muslims are encouraged to restrain the enemy by capturing them, and to therefore minimize loss of life. Moreover, the verse specifically mentions that Muslims should subdue the enemies "until the war lays down its burdens", i.e. until the enemy stops fighting. Similar to this verse:

8:61 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).

So the verse is very specific, in that it is limited to the context of a battle and the Muslims should only fight until the enemy is subdued or inclines towards peace i.e. they should not transgress limits. In the event of a battle, the verse guides Muslims to abstain from transgressing limits and only to fight the enemy until they are subdued or cease fighting. Shaykh Muhammad Saalih Al-Munajjid comments about the treatment of prisoners:

If the Muslims capture them and take them to a place that has been prepared for them, they should not harm them or torture them with beatings, depriving them of food and water, leaving them out in the sun or the cold, burning them with fire, or putting covers over their mouths, ears and eyes and putting them in cages like animals. Rather they should treat them with kindness and mercy, feed them well and encourage them to enter Islam... ...The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to enjoin the Muslims to treat prisoners well, whereas the Romans and those who came before them the Assyrians and Pharaohs, all used to put out their prisoners’ eyes with hot irons, and flay them alive, feeding their skins to dogs, such that the prisoners preferred death to life. (SOURCE)

Therefore, Islam has laid out clear rules and regulations for Muslims to follow in the event of war, which is only used as a last resort.

More evidence is found by training schools training Muslims to be suicide bombers.

Schools are for educating people, not for training them to become bombers as the killing of civilians is something categorically prohibited by Islam and condemned by ALL the Muslim scholars. Here's one example from Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Sâlih Al-'Uthaymîn, the renowned Saudi scholar considered by many to be one of the greatest of our century. The Shaikh stated, during a tele-link Birmingham UK, on the 28th July 2000:

...Likewise I invite you to have respect for those people who have the right that they should be respected, from those between you and whom there is and agreement (of protection) [i.e. Non-Muslims]. For the land which you are living is such that there is an agreement between you and them. If this were not the case they would have killed you or expelled you. So preserve this agreement, and do not prove treacherous to it, since treachery is a sign of the hypocrites, and it is not from the way of the Believers.
And know that it is authentically reported from the Prophet that he said : "Whoever kills one who is under and agreement of protection will not smell the fragrance of Paradise."
Do not be fooled by those sayings of the foolish people : those who say : 'Those people are Non-Muslims, so their wealth is lawful for us [i.e. to misappropriate or take by way of murder and killing].' For by Allaah - this is a lie. A lie about Allaah's Religion, and a lie in Islamic societies.
So we may not say that it is lawful to be treacherous towards people whom we have an agreement with.
O my brothers. O youth. O Muslims. Be truthful in your buying and selling, and renting, and leasing, and in all mutual transactions. Because truthfulness is from the characteristics of the Believers, and Allaah - the Most High - has commanded truthfulness - in the saying of Allaah - the Most High -
"O you who believe - fear and keep you duty to Allaah and be with the truthful"
And the Prophet encouraged truthfulness and said : "Adhere to truthfulness, because truthfulness leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise; and a person will continue to be truthful, and strive to be truthful until he will be written down with Allaah as a truthful person".
And he warned against falsehood, and said : "Beware of falsehood, because falsehood leads to wickedness, and wickedness leads to the Fire. And a person will continue lying, and striving to lie until he is written down with Allaah as a great liar."
O my brother Muslims. O youth. Be true in your sayings with your brothers, and with those Non-Muslims whom you live along with - so that you will be inviters to the Religion of Islaam, by your actions and in reality. So how many people there are who first entered into Islaam because of the behaviour and manners of the Muslims, and their truthfulness, and their being true in their dealings.

but then makes it against Islamic law to leave the religeon.

Refer to this discussion:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...theocracy.html

Speaking of carnal desires,, sex is mentioned a few times in the Quoran,a woman should be ready at all times for her husband for instance.

Again, betrays your ignorance. The Qur'an doesn't say this, and what is found in the sunnah is the mutual rights and respect of BOTH spouses.

Instead of posting dozens of different claims and then not following up on any of them when they are exposed to be lies, why don't you focus on one topic and ask the Muslims here questions with an aim to learn and better understand that issue? Surely that cannot be so difficult.

[Curaezipirid]

I think you might find that in the matter of a marriage Jesus relied upon Torah to a large extent since the teaching of Torah then needed less further clarity in the matter of marriage than it needed in other matters. But also I will manifest that I am not a scholar so can not immediately point to, but that surely these are not the only statements Jesus made about marriage.

Assalam Alaikum rvq

I just now had a look back through this post and noticed that my own commentary in this instance could be misconstrued. However not by any person whom truly believes in Gospel.

Thereby we must regard any instances of any person taking to themself the belief that maybe Jesus was an imposter who faked his crucifiction for profit, as persons not accepting of Gospel in Allah.

Assalam Alaikum

[Aishaa]

Yes.. in fact I do have some questions which I do hope you will be able to answer....and I mean them genuinely and not retoricly.
The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.
MOD: 1 question at a time.

[azim]

Yes.. in fact I do have some questions which I do hope you will be able to answer....and I mean them genuinely and not retoricly.
The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.
MOD: 1 question at a time.

Hi Aishaa.

You've really impressed the forum with your knowledge up their. It takes many arduous years of study to learn how to copy and paste.

[DigitalStorm82]

Creation of Man
96.2
He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

21.3
With their hearts occupied (with evil things). Those who do wrong, conceal their private counsels, (saying): "Is this (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) more than a human being like you? Will you submit to magic while you see it?"

24.45
Allâh has created every moving (living) creature from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, and some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allâh creates what He wills. Verily Allâh is Able to do all things.

19.67
Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

3.59
Verily, the likeness of ‘Îsâ (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

35.11
And Allâh did create you (Adam) from dust, then from Nutfah (male and female discharge semen drops i.e. Adam’s offspring), then He made you pairs (male and female). And no female conceives or gives birth but with His Knowledge. And no aged man is granted a length of life nor is a part cut off from his life (or another man’s life), but is in a Book (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûz ) Surely, that is easy for Allâh.

15.26
And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud.

16.4
He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.

75.37
Was he not a Nutfah (mixed male and female sexual discharge) of semen emitted (poured forth)?

Above are the quotations from the Quran. I have pasted it here for you to see for yourself that there is no contradiction, nor any mistakes. Are you not familiar with the science of today? Body contains all of the properties mentioned in the Quran and we’ve only come to know about them in last hundred years. Adam was created while he was nothing before that… he was created from dust, clay, mud… and Quran also mentions that we are made from water… what is the body made of? 99% water is it not? It doesn’t mean that body is made from water only… Quran Also mentions it is made from nutfah… the semen of male and female…how is this in any contradiction… when the fetus is developing.. in the very early stages.. Does it not take the appearance of a clot of blood? There is no contradiction; it merely gives different stages…


Spread by the sword?
4.74
Let those (believers) who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter fight in the Cause of Allâh, and whoso fights in the Cause of Allâh, and is killed or gets victory, We shall bestow on him a great reward.

9.29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah [2] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.5
Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (See V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[1]

You must read in context sis, if you’ve read the chapter you’re quoting you must know the verse before it mentions a treaty which was violated. A peace treaty violated by the pagans of Makkah, which started the war… and these verse deal with the war and during that time… You should know already that killing innocent people is strictly forbidden in Islam.


Hadith
Allah did warn Muhammad (sws)… Muhammad (sws) himself made duah to Allah to save him from old age and dependency on others… If Allah willed he would have ate the food prepared by the Jewish lady, but he only put it in his mouth and then he was warned so he removed the food… but he poison was enough to kill him slowly. Also he is a perfect example for us muslims to follow… for they all went through so much pain carry the message of Islam out to the world and live out their life till their last breath according to Islam. Therefore Islam guides us all aspect of our lives… from childhood to death.


Scriptures
4.47
O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface faces (by making them like the back of necks; without nose, mouth) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers[2]. And the Commandment of Allâh is always executed.[3]

3.84
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "We believe in Allâh and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrâhîm (Abraham), Ismâ‘îl (Ishmael), Ishâq (Isaac), Ya‘qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya‘qûb (Jacob)] and what was given to Mûsâ (Moses), ‘Îsâ (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allâh) we have submitted (in Islâm)."

Yes, of course it calls on Muslims to believe in the previous messengers, if they do not, they are not Muslims… as they are rejecting the commands of Allah swt. But the Quran refers to the true followers of Christ, those who believed in monotheism. Not the bible of today, in which there are many versions and many branches of Christianity. Also in another verse, it is said that only Islam will be accepted on Day of Judgment after the revelation of Muhammad sws.

If you need further explanation in anything else… don’t hesitate to ask :)

Peace.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Yes.. in fact I do have some questions which I do hope you will be able to answer....and I mean them genuinely and not retoricly.

What a joke! You paste the exact same allegations that are commonly found on online anti-islamic websites which Muslims have refuted long ago, and then you claim that they are your own genuine questions! Look at your first claim...

The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?

None; thank you for exposing your ignorance once again:

What was Man created from?

The allegation is as follows:

What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

The obvious explanation to this question is that these references describe different aspects or stages in man's creation. This has always been the understanding of such verses.

We will give a brief explanation of each verse, while presenting them in chronological order.

Most of the references refer to two different aspects of creation: Original creation and Embryological development.
Original creation
19:67 Does not man remember that We created him before, and he was nothing?
The phrase and he was nothing is the translation of the arabic wa lam yaku shay. Some confusion may have resulted because Yusuf Ali's translation renders it as out of nothing, which is not very accurate at all. The phrase literally means, and he was nothing.

Hence, this verse states that human beings were nothing, and Allah brought us into existence. This is a tremendous favour bestowed upon us, that we may be thankful to Allah swt.

This is allegedly in contradiction to the following verse:

52:35 Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Ibn Kathir Ad-Damishqi (d.1372CE) has explained this verse as follows in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:

Allah asks them, were they created without a maker or did they create themselves Neither is true. Allah is the One Who created them and brought them into existence after they were nothing.(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 9, p. 297)

Hence, this verse is not in contradiction to the previous verse at all, after closer examination. Even if we choose to translate verse 52:35 as "Were they created from nothing..." it would also be correct as Allah swt developed the human being from previously created substances.

20:55 Thereof (the earth) We created you, and into it We shall return you, and from it We shall bring you out once again

The original creation of Adam pbuh was from the dust of the earth.

30:20 Among His Signs is this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!

This dust was then mixed with water to produce what is mentioned in the following verse:
15:26 And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud [min hama’in masnoon]

An interesting commentary on these verses has been provided here:
http://harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_08.php#1

Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi also comments:

If we take dust and add water to it, it will be mud. If it is left for some time, it will turn into clay. These are simply the stages of the creation of man. Man thus comes from dust, turned into clay after the addition of water. If we scrutinize this issue, we will find out that man, in his daily life, needs earth and depends on it in so many aspects. It is this earthy soil where we grow the plants upon which we live. Thus, preserving the materials of man depends on the source from which these materials are created.


Scientists have analyzed the human body and found that it is composed of 16 substances including oxygen and manganese. These elements are no more than the elements of the earth?s crust. This experiment was not meant for proving the credibility of the Qur'an; rather, it was solely for scientific research purposes.


In addition, death itself serves as a proof of creation. When we try to demolish a building, we follow the reverse order of building it; we start with the last floor. By the same token, since we have not eye-witnessed the creation of man, then we shall see how death occurs. Actually, we witness several deaths everyday. When man dies, his soul leaves his body, then the decline starts; his body becomes dry (which is similar to the stage of clay) and then decays and turns finally into dust which was his original substance. Life is given to man through the soul that is blown into his body. When the soul departs, man dies and starts his way back to his original form going through the stages of his first creation. Thus, death stands as a living proof for creation (SOURCE)

21:30...We made of water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
This verse explains that all living things are composed of water.

Dr. Zakir Naik has commented on the above verse by saying:

Only after advances have been made in science, do we now know that cytoplasm, the basic substance of the cell is made up of 80% water. Modern research has also revealed that most organisms consist of 50% to 90% water and that every living entity requires water for its existence. Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human-being to guess that every living being was made of water? Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water? (SOURCE)

The following link also comments on this:
http://www.-----------------------/scientific_58.html

Embryological development

16:4 He has created man from a nutfah; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!

Dr. Omar Abdul Rehman has explained this as follow:

Nutfah (The drop)

Al-Nutfah in Arabic means a drop or a small part of fluid and Nutfah in general describes a stage where the beginnings of a human being are found in this fluid (Ref: 6A, 12/6; 17/118; 19/120: 13A, 3/436: 15A, 17/116: 1C, 2/121: 7B, 3/116: 4D, 9/235-6: 5D, 6/258: 4A, 30/234: 7A, 4/336: 10A, 13/9: 12A, 4/288). Its real meaning can only be deduced from the text of Qur'an; evidently it is a comprehensive term and includes male and female gametes and part of their natural environments of fluid. It also includes zygote, morula and blastocyst till implantation in the uterus. This is illustrated by the following citation:

"was he not a drop or part of germinal fluid (Mani) emitted or programmed" (Surah Al- Qiyama, Ayah 37)

Here "Mani" means male or female germinal fluid (Ref: 1D, 5/276: 5D, 10/348:2D, 6/2497).

The Prophet's Hadith confirms the fact that the offspring is created from part of the germinal fluids.

"Not from all the fluid is the offspring created"

(Sahih. Muslim: Kitab Al-Nekah, Bab Al-Azl)

It is also known that not all parts of the ejaculate are equally potent in the fertilisation process. "In the first portion of the ejaculate are the spermatozoa, epididymal fluids, and the secretions from the Cowper and prostate gland fluids. In the last portions of the ejaculate are the secretions of the seminal vesicles. Most spermatozoa appear in the first part of the ejaculate, which is made primarily of prostatic secretions. Thus spermatozoa in the initial portion of the ejaculate have better motility and survival than those in the later portions, which are chiefly vesicular in origin". (SOURCE)

And concerning the verse:
96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of an Alaqah
Dr. Omar Abdul Rehman states:

The 'Alaqah stage

"Then (thumm) We made the drop into an 'Alaqah". (Surah Al-Mu 'minun, Ayah 14)

In Arabic the word ‘Alaqah in fact has several meanings;

• 
  
  something which clings or a suspended thing (Ref: 7B, 5/440: 1D, 4/125: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267: 5D, 7/20)
• a leech-like structure (Ref: 9A, 3/242: 20A, 2/281: 7B, 5/139: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267)

Amazingly each of these terms can be applied to the developing embryo with stunning precision. All of these terms encompassed by the word ‘Alaqah describe the appearance of the embryo as well as its relationship with the womb. From the discussion below it becomes clear that the embryo resembles a primitive multicellular organism which is attached to a host and feeding on its blood.

a) something which clings

Modern science informs us that once the egg has been fertilised in the Fallopian tube it undergoes successive divisions to form a ball like structure of 12-16 cells by the third day. This structure is called a blastocyst and it reaches the uterus in 4 to 5 days. The blastocyst then lies free in the uterine secretions for a further 2 days. About a week after fertilisation the blastocyst begins to attach and implant into the uterine wall. By the 11th to 12th day it is completely embedded in the uterine wall. At this stage chorionic villosities begin to develop like roots in the soil, these draw nourishment from the uterus necessary for the blastocyst's growth. These formations cover the whole blastocyst and make it literally cling to the uterus. By the end of the second week implantation is complete. Inside the blastocyst the embryo is anchored to the wall of the chorionic cavity by a connecting stalk. Hence, these different ways of clinging and attachment seem to represent the most dominant features from day 7 to 21, and are perfectly described in the Qur'anic description by the word ‘Alaqah. For greater detail see S. Hussain (1986) ‘Al-‘Alaq:the mystery explored, Ark Journal, London, pp. 31-36.

b) a suspended thing

The 3 week old embryo inside the blastocyst which is embedded in the uterine wall is seen to be suspended in the chorionic cavity by means of the connecting stalk and is surrounded by the amniotic cavity and the yolk sac. Therefore, the term ‘Alaqah accurately describes the suspended embryo after it has been implanted.

c) a leech-like structure

The word ‘Alaqah can also be translated as ‘leech like structure'. The leech is a elongated pear shaped creature which thrives on blood sucking. At this stage of development the embryo from top view does bear a resemblance to a leech. This resemblance is even more marked if the 24 day old embryo is seen from the side. It is also interesting to note that the embryo is now dependent on the maternal blood for its nutrition and behaves very much like a leech!. (For greater detail see Moore, KL. ‘A scientists interpretation of references to embryology in the Qur'an.' Journal of the Islamic Medical Association of US and Canada, 1986, 18:15, and Moore, KL. and Azzindani, AMA.: "The Developing Human, Clinically Orientated Embryology, With Islamic Additions". 3rd Ed., Dar Al-Qiblah and WB Saunders).

In conclusion, whichever of the above terms are used to translate the word ‘Alaqah they are all stunningly accurate descriptions of the embryo at this stage in it's development as confirmed by modern science.

There is a gap of a few days between the stages of implantation (Nutfah) and 'Alaqah and this period is clearly explained by the above Ayah:

The word "Thumm" in Arabic is a conjunction indicating a time lag and the Ayah will, therefore, mean that after some time we created the "Nutfah" into 'Alaqah. (SOURCE)

These explanations make it evident that each verse is describing different stages in the creation of man.

As you can see, we've already written articles years ago on all the allegations you're about to come up with. Do yourself a favor and try to educate yourself about the fundamentals of this religion rather than pasting age-old allegations and making a fool of yourself.

Also, you've shown that you are either willfully obtuse or mentally deficient since my last post responded to your claim ON VERSE 4:74 BUT YOU ASKED ABOUT THE SAME VERSE AGAIN AS IF YOU HADN'T EVEN NOTICED THE REFUTATION!!

[duskiness]

Yes.. in fact I do have some questions which I do hope you will be able to answer....and I mean them genuinely and not retoricly.
The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.
MOD: 1 question at a time.

Maybe this thread suits better to refutation board???:?
And i doubt you will find here answer to question "which part of the Quran is wrong?". And i don't think that Muslim board is a place to ask it...
n.

[جوري]

if she were sincere, the Muslim board would be the very source to seek clarification... but that isn't what she is looking for, anymore than she actually is married to a Muslim... either this or her occipital, frontal and hippocampus are in a major mal-functions... since not only is she unable to see, process, understand or store any of the information she is afforded here....

[~Stranger~]

And i doubt you will find here answer to question "which part of the Quran is wrong?". And i don't think that Muslim board is a place to ask it..

:sl:

actually this is the best place to ask such questions if u really want to know the (real and true) answer rather than a lie posted but anti muslims.

:w:

[Aishaa]

It is true that I have sought information from where I can.. and yes I have copied and pasted questions.. only because I would like to hear the answers to them for myself. I have also seen many others who have pasted. When I ask questions that does not praise Mohammed to the highest.. I am slammed as an anti islamist,
I am in fact married to a Muslim. I married my husband on the 8th of Febuary 2006 in the Government office in Cairo. I can scan and e mail my marriage documents if I am doupted. I dont know why I am greeted with such hostility when I ask questions that I admit are sensitive.. but none the less wanting the answers to.. I have not been unkind or called anyone names.. yet I have been called an anti Islamist and ignorant and mentally defeiciant because I seek the answers to some questions that some people maybe dont like.
There are many parts of the Islamic religeon which I agree with wholeheartedly..but some I dont understand because it contradicts the teachings of Jesus.. which is why I posed the question.. Is Islam a continuation of Christianity? It seems to have turned in to a mud slinging debate rather than a discussion.. but I havent been unkind or slung mud at anyone. Yes I have researched what I can and asked what I can.. whether it be sites that have posed these questions before.. that I myself would like the answers to.. and while we´re on the subject.. Why not?.. is it wrong to ask a question that someone has asked before?
My husband wants me to conform to Islam.. he wants me to sign on the dotted line.. I cant do that without asking questions and debating, whether they are likeable questions or not. I am at a stage in my life where it is most sensitive.. I put what I have read and ask questions that maybe sensitive.. but instead of helping me.. I am feeling that I am being slammed for even asking them.. even if they are questions pasted that have been asked before.. or of my own ..does it matter which? I dont want to embrace Islam as religoen that will effect the rest of my life without knowing the person who was responsible for it.. knowing what his views were.. I may be wrong but there are many who dont actually know about his views as a person.. just the teachings he gave the world.. surely the two are just as important? Dont Slam me for being unknowledgable.. dont call me names because I ask questions that you think are too sensitive for your liking..and dont talk about me as if I am not here.. (anymore than she actually is married to a Muslim... ) She? I am here.
Until I met my beloved husband I knew nothing about Islam and I have struggled to learn. My husband says I should learn alone because I will feel that he is influencing me.. which I can understand.
It seems to me right now.. that I should learn the Quoran.. memorise it and dont mention anything that might upset anyone.
Dont read anything about Mohammeds life as a man only as a prophet.. because people dont like hearing it..Stick to whats in the Quoran and Ill be oK.
Learning (or trying to) about Islam has been so difficult because people dont want to discuss Mohammeds life.. the way he was with women.. war..the money he made called Booty at that time..Every time I read something about his life and then mention it.. its like.. HOW dare you!!,, Is it that Muslims put thier heads in the sand about who he was.. or do they just not like hearing it? Or didnt it happen at all?
Cant one person here discuss Mohammed and the way he lived with women etc without getting angry and bitter?
Its not his personal life thats important anyway.. its the message he brought us.. so why do Muslims refuse to recognise the personal life he lead?
Does it matter that he married a child of 9?.. yet some Muslims say no.. she was older!! when its common knowledge how old she was..
Its his views and his opinions that matter more if he is to carry the message of God. Its these views and how he saw the world around him including women.. money etc I am interested in as well as the Quoran itself.
I will be guided be God and the help I have from whatever source to know the right way, and depending on which way he wants me to go will be the road that is easiest for he will make it so.

[~Stranger~]

:sl:

The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.

did u really read these verses or just took the word os the anti islamic who said these things??
if u r really eager to learn about islam- have u been looking inthe right vplaces- there r many islamic sites out there who will be more than happy to answer ur question and have already refutes the questions asked by the anti islamists

i find it offensive when u say "wife-child"(or was it child-wife). do u know how old aisha was when the prophet died??

and another question- did u read the biography of the prophet to know if he really died of that poison the jewish woman put to him?? how do u know he died of the effect of that poison and not something else??

if u really want to lkearn about islam them do that in the right places

:w:

[جوري]

It isn't even the questions... many of us even Muslims want to undserstand and learn.. just the other day I asked a scholar about suret Ad Dukhan verse
[Pickthal 44:48] Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water.

ذُقْ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْكَرِيمُ {49}
[Pickthal 44:49] (Saying): Taste! Lo! thou wast forsooth the mighty, the noble!

I didn't understand why the verse can speak of hell's torment and at the same time call the sinner mighty and noble? until I asked and learned the story behind it...

There is a clear way in which to ask questions with sincere intent on learning not accusing and then stating well the replies were cut and pasted... if even simple effort of looking into the attatched websites you would clearly see the person who answered your questions is the same one whose name appears as the author on these websites.... so how dare you not only accuse us the whole lot of us of either burrying our head in the sand but cutting and pasting your replies?... do you not read what was written in response to your questions? Do you discern the meaning of the verses and the replies written you?

For each we have appointed a divine law and traced out the way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you He made you as ye are. So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. -- 5:48 I hope in Good works means something to you the next time you cut and paste your next Q
peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ye u cud say that or u cud say that islam was always the religion but the people altered the teachings of Jesus (which he got from the same God) and called the religion christianity. If this hadnt happened there would be no need to send Muhammad saws to correct the religion and leave it in perfection as he did. Islam was, is, and will be the only religion.

Judaism/Christianity etc is just alterations of the original teaching to fit the desires of people (gender free-mixing/eating wateva they like/living in a way which suits them etc etc)


peace n respect and sorry for any offence i have caused.

:peace: and :respect: :)

[snakelegs]

aishaa,
hope you read my post (#27) which answered the question that you asked at the beginning of the thread.
i have found this a useful site, where you can learn a lot about islam and muhammad.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/

[Andaraawus]

There is parts of the Bible where Jesus encouraged the use of a sword.

[DigitalStorm82]

Aisha, I'd just like to say sorry on behalf of LI Forum in regards to any hostility you faced here...

I understood where you are coming from... and you're only trying to learn about Islam. No one should be criticised for questioning... If you don't question, how will you learn... please continue your search.

I want you to know that there is no compulsion in the religion of Islam (2.256) If you decide to revert to Islam, do not do it for anyone but yourself.

We do have members that are more sensitive than others... so please state your questions carefully, as it may be difficult to determine your intent from text.

Again, we're sorry for making you feel uncomfortable or unwelcome...

Peace be to you.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

It is true that I have sought information from where I can.. and yes I have copied and pasted questions.. only because I would like to hear the answers to them for myself.

And the answers HAVE been provided IN GREAT DETAIL, yet you ignore them and continue to paste more allegations all the while complaining about the so-called 'hostility' that you're facing here. I think we need a brief re-cap of the 'discussion'...

You asked a question in the title of the thread, "Is Islam a continuation of Christianity?" You were answered clearly and plainly that it was not. That was the last we heard of what is allegedly the topic of this thread. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that Islamic punishments are brutal and you were referred to a detailed and definitive refutation to that allegation here. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that women are financially worse off then men, when the reality - as was mentioned to you - is that women have greater financial rights than their husbands who have increased financial obligations. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that the teachings of Prophet Muhammad pbuh were written years after his death and you were soundly rebuked and informed that he actually had as many as 60 scribes writing for him during his lifetime. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that the 'testimonies of Aisha' were rejected because she was a woman and this was shown to be a blatant LIE as Aisha rd not only was an accepted hadîth narrator but one of THE MOST PROLIFIC NARRATORS having narrated at TWO THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND TEN Ahâdith!! You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that Prophet Muhammad pbuh had a low opinion of women, a claim which was DEMOLISHED in light of almost FIFTY explicit quotations from the mouth of the Prophet himself, which showed the lofty status of women in Islam and the tremendous honor Islam has bestowed upon women. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that Prophet Muhammad pbuh married a child, which was DEBUNKED when you were referred to an IN-DEPTH discussion on the Marriage of Aisha which proved her post-pubescence and annihilated any claims of immorality and abuse. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not perform any miraculous healing, a claim which was SHATTERED when you were confronted with NUMEROUS CASES of the Prophet miraculosuly healing, by God's permission, severe injuries instantaneously. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh's marriage to Safiyyah was of an abusive coercive nature, whereas the reality was that he honored her and preserved her dignity, which was explained to you here. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that the Qur'an commands killing the unbelievers and smiting their necks and you MISQUOTED verse 47:4; your deceptive tactics were EXPOSED when you were confroned with a complete detailed REFUTATION. You failed to comment on the response provided.

You made the CLAIM that Muslims are trained in schools to be suicide bombers, which was REVEALED TO BE A LUDICROUS ASSERTION in light of the explicit and unanimous condemnation of violence and terror on the part of leading Muslim scholars worldwide. You failed to comment on the response provided.

Lastly, you made the CLAIM that the Qur'an was wrong and self-contradictory on the basis of the most LOGICALLY INCOHERENT arguments, which was EXPOSED with a complete article that had been written demolishing the exact same allegation. You failed to comment on the response provided.

A quick review of the past discussion finds your posts to be utterly lacking in any attempt for respectful dialogue but rather riddled with erroneous claims and basless attacks against Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Furthermore, when your allegations are refuted and your claims challenged you run from debate, ignore the refutations completely, failing to acknowlege the responses provided and instead throw more attacks on the Prophet pbuh and Islam and complain that you've been met with 'hostility'. If it is too much for you to have your hateful myths about Islam challenged, then perhaps intellectual debate is not suitable for you

When I ask questions that does not praise Mohammed to the highest.. I am slammed as an anti islamist,

You still fail to realize that you are not asking questions. You are not asking, "What was Muhammad's view on women? Can anyone back it up with direct quotes?" Instead you are making the ALLEGATION that Prophet Muhammad pbuh had a low opinion of women, an allegation which was soundly refuted and dismissed through direct quotations from the Prophet himself. Instead of responding to the refutations provided you start bawling about hostility which is ironic considering how clearly you have manifested your hostility towards Islam and Prophet Muhammad pbuh. If you can't handle criticism of your anti-islamic claims and bigoted mentality then as I said before, intellectual debate is not for you.

I have not been unkind or called anyone names..

Actually you have openly slandered the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and displayed manifest hostility and bigotry towards Islamic teachings. Don't even think about starting on manners; your etiquettes of learning from people about their religion are appalling.

but I havent been unkind or slung mud at anyone.

Except for Islam, the Prophet, the Qur'an and the Muslim community, only a few dozen times.

I am feeling that I am being slammed for even asking them.. even if they are questions pasted that have been asked before.. or of my own ..does it matter which?

A genuine interest to learn would be evident in the tone of the post. Saying that Islam is brutal, and that Muhammad pbuh was misogynistic reeks of bigotry and hatred, rather than a sincere desire to learn the truth about Islam and Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Dont read anything about Mohammeds life as a man only as a prophet.. because people dont like hearing it

Actually I strongly encourage you to read the 800 page biography of the Prophet entitled "Muhammad: Man and Prophet" written by Adil Salahi. That is only if you are sincelrey interested in learning though.

Learning (or trying to) about Islam has been so difficult because people dont want to discuss Mohammeds life..

We don't want to discuss Muhammad's life?! That's why we've been providing in-depth refutations of your baseless claims, quoting directly from his own words!

Learning (or trying to) about Islam has been so difficult because people dont want to discuss Mohammeds life.. the way he was with women..

We don't want to discuss the way he was with women?! That's why we provided you with almost 50 narrations quoting his own words! You seem to have a short memory so let me remind you:

Women in the Sunnah

There is certainly no shortage of statements from the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which honor women and promote their rights, beginning with the explicit mandate: 'I command you to be kind to women.' (Sahîh Bukhârî).

He often described a man's treatment of women to be reflective of his own nobility or worth. The Prophet said: 'None but a noble man treats women in an honorable manner. And none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and the best of you are those who are best to their wives.' (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet said: 'The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in moral excellence, and the best of you are the kindest to their wives. (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Muslims are commanded to always follow the example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In light of this, the Prophet said: 'The best of you is the one who is best to his wife. I am the best of you to his wife and I'm the best to my wife.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ad-Dârimî, Sahîh Ibn Hibbân)

There is no one who could describe better about how the Prophet (peace be upon) was with his wives, then the latter themselves. A'isha, the wife of the Prophet, was asked, "What did the Prophet used to do at home?" She answered, "he kept himself busy helping the members of his household, and when the time for prayer came, he would go out for the prayer". (Sahîh Bukhârî). The Prophet Muhammad participated in the household chores and helped his wives. "He would attend to his clothes, milk his sheep and serve himself." (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet advised one of his companions, Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'Aas, who used to fast all day and pray all night: 'Do not do that. Fast and break your fast, pray qiyaam and sleep, for your body has a right over you, your eyes have a right over you, your wife has a right over you and your visitors have a right over you.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

The Prophet censured those who quarreled with their wives, describing them as being driven by the most evil of devils:

"Iblîs (Satan) sets up his throne on water, then he sends out his armies of devils (to incite humans to do evil). The closest to him of these troops are the ones who cause the most tribulation. One devil comes and says, 'I have done such and such.' Iblîs says, 'You have not done enough.' Then another one comes and says, 'I never left him alone until I created trouble and caused division between him and his wife.' Then Iblîs comes close to this devil and says, 'How excellent you are!' " (Sahîh Muslim)

Likewise, the Prophet denounced those men who were unfaithful regarding their wives' secrets:

'Verily among the most evil of people with Allah in ranking on the Day of Resurrection is a man who goes to his wife and whose wife goes to him, and then he spreads her secrets.' (Sahîh Muslim, Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abû Dawûd)

Prophet Muhammad forbade hostility towards one's wife: 'The believer should not harbor hatred towards his wife. If he dislikes something in her, then surely he will be pleased with another quality in her.' (Sahîh Muslim)

Instead, he encouraged both men and women to be patient with their spouses: 'If any man shows patience with his wife's bad temper, Allah will give him a reward similar to the reward of Ayyub for his patience, and if any woman shows patience with her husband's bad temper, Allah will give her a reward similar to the reward of Asiyah daughter of Muzahim, the wife of Pharoah (Cf. Qur'an 66:11).' (Al-Kabâ'ir of Adh-Dhahabî)

The Prophet encouraged couples to enjoy time together: 'All activities of a man in which there is no mention of God are frivolity, except for four things: A man enjoying time with his wife, training his horse, walking between two purposeful goals, and teaching another man to swim.' (Sunan An-Nasâ'î, Mu'jam At-Tabarânî)

He spoke of the mutual rights of men and women on many occasions: 'Consult with women. Indeed, you have some rights over your women and they have some rights over you. It is their right on you that you provide for their food and clothing generously, and your right on them is that they do not let anyone whom you dislike in the house, walking upon your floor. (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

And he said concerning the virtuous woman:
'The life of this world is bountiful, and the best of bounties is the righteous woman.' (Sahîh Muslim)

Perhaps the clearest example of Islam's honoring of women is in its directives for man to be dutiful to his mother. The Prophet said in a famous narration: 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

Scholars have proven the preference of the mother over the father from the following narration:
A man came to Prophet Muhammad asking “ O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company?” The Prophet said “Your mother”. The man said “then who else?” The Prophet said “Your mother”. The man asked, “then who else?” The Prophet replied “Your mother” When the man asked for the fourth time, only then did the Prophet say, “Your father” ( Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

The Prophet did not stop at commanding kindness to wives and honoring one's mother. He continually singled out daughters when emphasizing the good treatment of one's children. The Prophet said: 'Anyone who cares for three daughter, gives them a good upbringing, marries them to good husbands and treats them well, they will enter paradise. The companions asked, "What about two daughters?" He said, "Even two daughters". They asked what about one daughter? He said "even one". (Sunan Abi Dawûd, Musnad Ahmad, Mustadarak Al-Hâkim). It is significant that in the above narration, the Prophet has promised nothing short of paradise to the believer on account of good treatment to women. Can there be any weightier statement in favor of women?

The Prophet explictly forbade any gender bias towards one's children, though it was prevalent in pre-islamic arabian culture. The Prophet said: 'Whoever has a daughter born to him, and he did not prefer his son over him, Allah will admit him to Paradise because of her.' (Mustadarak Al-Hâkim)

The Prophet also extended honorable treatment to include one's sisters in addition to daughters: 'There is no one who has three daughters, or three sisters, and he treats them well, but Allah will admit him/her to Paradise.' (Al-Adab Al-Mufrad of Bukhârî)

The Prophet said: 'There is no one among my ummah who has three daughters, or three sisters, and he supports them until they are grown up, but he will be with me in Paradise like this – and he held up his index and middle fingers together.' (Mu'jam At-Tabarânî)

Thus, the Prophet not only made virtuous treatment of women a path to paradise, but he said it would bring one close to the Prophet himself in paradise.

In another narration, the Prophet Muhammad said that a believing woman's sacrifice for he daughters was a cause for her entrance to paradise. A'isha, the wife of the Prophet (peace be upon him), said: 'A poor woman came to me carrying her two daughters. I gave her three dates to eat. She gave each child a date, and raised the third to her own mouth to eat it. Her daughters asked her to give it to them, so she split the date that she had wanted to eat between them. I was impressed by what she had done, and told the Messenger of Allah about it. He said, “Allah has decreed Paradise for her because of it”.' (Sahîh Muslim)

At a time when a woman was valued only for material benefits or superficial qualities, the Prophet Muhammad taught his companions to value women for their piety. The Prophet said: 'A woman is married for four reasons: for her property, her status, her beauty, and her religion; so marry one who is religious, may you be blessed.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

The Prophet also said: 'Whoever Allah has blessed with a virtuous woman has been helped with half of his religion. So let him be mindful of God concerning the remaining half.' (Mu'jam At-Tabarânî, Mustadarak Al-Hâkim)

He also upheld women's right in choosing their spouse, as seen in the following narration:
Al-Khansaa’ bint Khidaam complained to the Prophet that her father wanted her to marry someone she didn’t want, saying “I do not wish to accept what my father has arranged.” The Prophet said, “Then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.” Al-Khansaa’ said, “I have actually accepted what my father has arranged, but I wanted women to know that fathers have no right in their daughter’s matters” (i.e. they have no right to force a marriage on them). (Fath Al-Barî Ibn Hajr, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

The Prophet said: 'Assuredly, women are the twin halves of men.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Musnad Ahmad).

In light of the numerous teachings honoring women, it would be no exaggeration to say that the greatest advocate of women's rights was none other than the Prophet Muhammad himself, peace be upon him.

the money he made called Booty at that time..

The money he made?! Let me bring you up to speed with what the Prophet's life was like!! The Prophet Muhammad pbuh lived his life abstaining from the pleasures of this world, living in material poverty!

Narrated 'Aisha: The family of Muhammad had never eaten their fill of wheat bread for three successive days since they had migrated to Medina till the death of the Prophet. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 461)



Narrated 'Aisha: The family of Muhammad did not eat two meals on one day, but one of the two was of dates. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 462)



Narrated 'Aisha: The bed mattress of the Prophet was made of a leather case stuffed with palm fibres. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 463)



Narrated Qatada: We used to go to Anas bin Malik and see his baker standing (preparing the bread). Anas said, "Eat. I have not known that the Prophet ever saw a thin well-baked loaf of bread till he died, and he never saw a roasted sheep with his eyes." (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 464)



Narrated 'Aisha: A complete month would pass by during which we would not make a fire (for cooking), and our food used to be only dates and water unless we were given a present of some meat. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 465)

The Prophet pbuh even taught his followers, 'Wealth does not come from having great riches; (true) wealth is contentment of the soul.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

Is it that Muslims put thier heads in the sand about who he was.. or do they just not like hearing it? Or didnt it happen at all?

Your living in denial. We've heard your claims, analyzed them and refuted them in great detail. You have completely ignored the responses. It seems like YOU are the one who doesn't like hearing your bigoted ideas challenged.

I've answered in detail all your claims and have left no question in your posts unanswered, no allegation standing. It's time for you to come to terms with the reality of the life of the Noble Prophet and leave behind the hateful and twisted mythology of lies you've allowed bigots to spoon-feed you.

Regards

[Aishaa]

Thankyou Digital storm.. your words yes indeed are an encouragement... Can you reccomend any books I can buy about Prophet Mohammeds life that are written objectively as I would like to learn but not from Anti Islamic sites or Pro Islamic sites that may cloud any reality.. (respectfully) Im sure you know what I mean.. I would like to get to know the man warts and all.. and not just peaches and roses stories. Its true that some Christians do exactly that too. I prefer a book as some sites I have been on I have gotten information from I am told are anti Islamic.. its difficult to know when the author has an Arabic name.. you automaticly think that he is a Muslim. Then because I quote from these sites Im told that its anti islamic.. very confusing!!!!
Thankyou for your understanding and Patience Digital storm.. Im not such a bad guy I dont do anything to harm offend deliberately.
I do in fact read the responces.. just because I dont always comment on them doesnt mean I havent read them and I am in fact grateful for all the information that has been offered me so far.
Many many thanks...

[جوري]

.. I would like to get to know the man warts and all.. and not just peaches and roses stories. .

Warts and all? "truly faqid Alshy'e la Yo'eteeh"
Yes, Please digital give her the Pat Robertson version of events ... the direct sources from Bukhari with four or five different versions attesting to the same thing from 1400 years ago are dubious, but every secondary source built around that is undoubtedly accurate......
..... Madam I don't care who you are..... or whom you are married to ... us Muslims from all different background don't tolerate callus comments and statements about our prophet..... so either show some respect in your queries or get out.......

[~Stranger~]

:sl:

"truly faqid Alshy'e la Yo'eteeh"

the one who doesnt have something, doesnt give it to anyone

i hope my translation is correct

i asked u something aishaa and hope to get an answer

The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.

did u really read these verses?

:w:

[جوري]

:sl:
the one who doesnt have something, doesnt give it to anyone

i hope my translation is correct:

It is an adage we use in Arabic for someone who lacks a "particular something"... for instance if someone has never received love as a child they can never part with it as an adult.... if someone has never learned to respect or be respected, he/she can never part with respect later on.........
I consider myself pretty tolerant of just about anything.... but lack of reverence is something that just infuriates me.... whether it be to a person's own mother or an elderly person or when addressing another human being on the forum, no matter their creed or conviction... let alone lack of respect to religious consecrates :grumbling :grumbling :grumbling ...... I don't usually dignify such posts when they are in random blogs....and certainly have no intent on doing so on this forum either.......

[DigitalStorm82]

Well, the only site that I know which is not pro-Islam or anti-Islam is wikipedia.

Here ya go.

MOD'S COMMENT: SORRY, THIS SITE ALSO CONTAINS BIAS, JUST LOOK AT THE DISCLAIMER THEY HAVE IN THE ARTICLE:

The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

Peace.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Allah has said it best,whta is worng in the olden book is corrected in the Quran.

The Quran is the CRITERION whereby to judge all other Holy Books.

It is not a continuation but the FINALITY.

The other holy book is like a test paper with no answer,where man can choose what they like the answer to be,the QURAN CONTAIN ALL THE ANSWER...

[جوري]

What is wrong with reading the Quran? ... It isn't nearly as good as reading Spencer's book you know a "best seller" from Amazon where she got the "warts and all" along with the thousand other tid bit refuted here. I mean if one is to plagiarize try to play on words a little. Believe it or not the rest of us frequent libraries read and review books. You might save yourself a major embarrassment.

[Aishaa]

Warts and all.. is an English expression.. it means to look at something in total reality not through rose coloured glasses.. I was certainly not suggesting that the Phrophet had Warts!!!! again.. this is an expression only.
I do have respect for the prophet and the religeon and its members.. it is not I who is angry and hostile. If you do not care who I am married to Ambrosia.. then why mention it?
Stranger..
In Cairo where I live mostly with my husband, I have an English version of the Quoran that my husband kindly purchased for me, yes I have read many parts.. but it takes for some a whole life time, for me its only been a few months. He makes me leave the book there as he is worried it may be damaged so unfortunately I do not have it here with me in Portugal.

I was told that Islam is NOT a continuation of Christianity, which I accept if this is correct, so why then is the new testament mentioned in the Quoran, I ask this genuinely as I am interested to know why Jesus and the new testament is mentioned but not to be taken as part of the religeon???

[جوري]

I am well aware of what "warts and all means" I am also aware of the "rose tinted glasses" expression, I am also painfully aware of which book this all came from... would gladly provide the link... except I will not only not endorse an anti-islamic book... I will not loan it further credence by attaching its link here...
why do I mention your husband? simple... just utterly surprised that someone who is "married" to a Muslim can know so little or address the "negatives" with such bravado... any Muslim though bound to you through marriage or not would be appalled.... more of a surprise really than an interest in your private affairs!.....
I think you need to compare your question style previousely to your very last post to understand why it is so reprehensible. Although I know that they weren't genuinely your questions as I have reviewd the very book you got it all from.
if you have an honest interest in the religion...... then welcome aboard
otherwise I am not sure where you were/are heading with the barrage of Insults against the messanger and Islam.
peace

[Malaikah]

I was told that Islam is NOT a continuation of Christianity, which I accept if this is correct, so why then is the new testament mentioned in the Quoran, I ask this genuinely as I am interested to know why Jesus and the new testament is mentioned but not to be taken as part of the religeon???

I think this was answered many times already. Islam is not a continuation of modern day christianity. Rather, Islam is the one and same message that Jesus gave to his people! That there is one God etc (i.e. the teachings of Islam). Of course, there would have been differences in terms of the specifics, considering that Jesus had a different law (which, i believe actually, was just re-inforcement of Moses' law, someone correct me if im wrong please) but the general was the same.

Of course Jesus is part of Islam! The problem is, he was a prophet, not God! We believe that the reveletions Jesus got from God were corrupted by people over time and that his original teachings, which where in line with the teachings of Islam, where lost and changed.

So stuff like the trinity- Jesus never said any of that stuff, he never declared himself to be God, rather people falsely attributed this to him later on after he was taken out of this world.

So you see, we believe in Jesus, but we dont believe in what christains falsely attribute to him.

[Aishaa]

:? :? Cheese.. ya know what? I agree with you.. I dont recall anywhere in Jesus´s statements that he said he was God. As far as what I was told as a child growing up in Christianity.. I was taught that he was the SON of God but not God... God was his/our father ...of course there leaves many questions open to why or how he was the son of God.. but Ill leave that to the more intelect of the Christian religeon to answer that one!..
As Jesus is reported to say upon the cross.. "Oh Father why have thee forsaken me?"... surely he couldnt have been talking to himself.
I know that the Muslim religeon says that he did not die upon the cross.. I soppose the main question then is.. We all know how inteligent the Romans were at that time and how they were maticulous in recording every event.. Jesus´s trial and execution was recorded.. and as far as I am aware.. these same documents can be found in the Vatagan to this day... So how did this trial and execution be so carefully recorded if it wasnt him.. and if it wasnt him.. then who was it? and would God allow someone else such torture and execution to befall an innocent bystander?.. questions questions..

[جوري]

Jesus preformed miracles didn't he? God is greater than the Romans... when he decrees something to be.... it shall be... the ROmans weren't mightier than the Pharoh yet God drowned him saved Moses and the Israelites.....

as for the person who died on the cross.... lots of different opinions on whom.... some think it was Judas himself.... some believe that it was someone who wanted to be martyred for the cause of God.... I think it is more believable than God foresaking his own son?........

[Malaikah]

:? :? Cheese.. ya know what? I agree with you.. I dont recall anywhere in Jesus´s statements that he said he was God. As far as what I was told as a child growing up in Christianity.. I was taught that he was the SON of God but not God... God was his/our father ...of course there leaves many questions open to why or how he was the son of God.. but Ill leave that to the more intelect of the Christian religeon to answer that one!..
As Jesus is reported to say upon the cross.. "Oh Father why have thee forsaken me?"... surely he couldnt have been talking to himself.

Came someone PLEASE make up their minds! Why do all christians explain this trinity thing differently!!:grumbling How can someone be the son of God and not be a 'god' himself... and why on earth did the son of God have to feel betrayed by god, doesnt he have knowledge of everything like the father god?? or is he a less capable god? a god who is able to make himself born to a virgin but not able to control what his servants (humans!!) and the father god want to do to him?????

As far as i know, christians explain him as the son of god, and that god is in 3 parts and they are part of the one god, thats why they claim to be monothiest, you cant be monothiests if you dont believe that jesus has power or else how can he be one part of the same god???:uuh:

:hiding: :offended:

I know that the Muslim religeon says that he did not die upon the cross.. I soppose the main question then is.. We all know how inteligent the Romans were at that time and how they were maticulous in recording every event.. Jesus´s trial and execution was recorded.. and as far as I am aware.. these same documents can be found in the Vatagan to this day... So how did this trial and execution be so carefully recorded if it wasnt him.. and if it wasnt him.. then who was it? and would God allow someone else such torture and execution to befall an innocent bystander?.. questions questions..

the evidence suggests 2 things, and i dont know which on is more correct, but idea is that god changed the appearance of a man so that he can look like Jesus and that person was crucified.... who the man was is uncertain, some evidences suggests it was one of the evil ppl and god punished him through this, and other evidences suggests that it was a good guy, a supporter of jesus who offered himself for the task and was thus given the ultimate status of martadom for which his reward in paradise with be sooo great that he will wish to be returned to earth do die for the sake of god yet again.

nothing unjust about either case :rollseyes

[Aishaa]

I do see your point one hundred percent.. would God allow his son to be killed?.. but why would God allow any of his messengers prophets to be killed.. they all died horribly one way or another.. John the Baptist was beheaded.. as we are lead to beleive.... Prophet Mohammed was poisoned.. or so we assume..and Jesus was crucified.... I soppose the only thing the Christians hang on to is that very act of Crucifiction,, for without that and his ressurection.. Christianity wouldnt have existed.. I soppose he would have simply been forgotten. I do find it truly fascinating that Jesus and the new testament is in the Quoran,, and I really do wonder in what way are we to take this,, what was prophet Mohammed saying about Jesus? That his teachings were important and a part of Islam ?.. what was his reasons or Gods reasons even for mentioning it? It still poses the original question is Islam a continuation of Christianity.. if in fact Prophet Mohammed recognised the teachings of Jesus.

[جوري]

وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ {285}
[Pickthal 2:285] The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.


Also from the same chapter.....
اللّهِ لِيَشْتَرُواْ بِهِ ثَمَناً قَلِيلاً فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ {79}
[Pickthal 2:79] Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

The Quran is unaltered.... we believe it to be God's word....... all his messangers came with the same message......so we make no distinction between them and we know that revelations were sent to them as well...... what people did with it after wards is an entirely different story.....

[Ulysses]

[QUOTE=WnbSlveOfAllah;510915]:sl: Islam is a continuation of the the religion followed by Adam(AS), Eve/Hawa(AS) and their Progeny.QUOTE]

So what about the religions that existed before Adam and Eve?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeol...figurines.html

[جوري]

One religion....... one God!

[InToTheRain]

[QUOTE=Ulysses;515372]

:sl: Islam is a continuation of the the religion followed by Adam(AS), Eve/Hawa(AS) and their Progeny.QUOTE]

So what about the religions that existed before Adam and Eve?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeol...figurines.html

There were other biengs that were created before us, for example the Angels who obey the commands of without question and there were the Jinns who were given freedom of choice. There are opinions amongst scholars that Jinns may have occupied the earth before the creation of Mankind.

Allah(SWT) knows best.

But what you should know is the only way of life acceptable to God is Islam which is the religion of all the prophets from the begining of mankinds existence. This much we as muslims need to know.

[Aishaa]

I think that both Muslim and Christian beleive that both religeons had an original basis of Adam and Eve.. There is of course the evolution theory which would if proven rock both Islam and Christianity and a few other religeons too I should think. But how could there be a religeon before man.. after all.. religeon relies on man to carry its word.. whichever the religeon.

[Curaezipirid]

One religion....... one God!

In Indian tradtion there are three Vedas which describe three different forms of adherence to belief in One God. These three forms can equitably be perceived as corresponding to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. But what is able to be observed is that the progessive work of Religious men in the Middle East which accords that each is an higher form of belief than the previous; is oddly working in the reverse direction in the far east, and in that I will include the portions of Aboriginal Australian society most effected by shaytan. Here I will show what I mean better by defining the three.

The three forms of Monotheism that are possible are one dualist and two non-dualist:

with a focus in the substance of Hope, the dualist way, which was the first form of Religion in the Middle East but the more recent in the Far East: Perceiving God as an external controlling intelligence to a wholy mechanised Universe which only God can alter;

with a focus in the substance of Love, the earlier forms of non-dualism: Perceiving God as within the Universe and that we each may exert a minute element of our own influence of will in the Universe but only by connecting in our inner identification with God as a unique individual of Higher intelligence that we may even guess; so we are in God as well as God being whom can control the universe; god-head belief systems accord with this structure when ever it is also manifested that the god-head can only ever be an individual Human Saint whom manifests enabling a person to know themself in Allah; Christian belief is often this, although Christian belief also manifests in the other form of non-dualism;

with a focus in the substance of Faith, the later form of non-dualism, that was also the earliest form of belief in One God in the Far East, as in the example of Taoism and Shinto: Perceiving God as throughout the Universe and the Universe as necessarily at One with God; yet to that we also manifest belief that we each are able to exert an influence independently and if our own influence is not in accord with the will of One God, to whom we owe our existance, then, why how could we be continuing to exist in the slightest respect if God is not certain that we will be availing ourselves of repaying that ever we exerted any influence not in accord with His Will.

This third form of belief, that I prefer and which accords that my belief in Isa is within Islam, is that form in which once certain, we can not believe in our own existance without believing in our own accountiblity in Allah.

There are forms of Christianity in which persons can, for the sake of lessening their relative level of fear, quiten their worry as to their own account, by manifesting a false belief in what is real of our eventual account by presuming upon Jesus. But in Islam such is not possible because of the nature of the form of Human mental processing of belief in Allah.

The analysis is simpler: either only God can make any alteration to the universe and I am His pawn entirely, and it is sin to manifest belief of any other reality; or only God can make any alteration and I by His permission in His Love, and any thing other is sin; or, if I perceive my self making any alteration to the Universe, then so as to continue causing me to exist God will necessarily have accounted for my every mistake, so therefore I will eventually necessarily be forced to pay for my every mistake, or else I could not now exist.

So: "Is Islam a continuation of Christianity?" is truly only answerable within your own perception of continuity and in God/Allah.

What is your own constance of belief and if that runs through both Christianity and Islam then the answer is of course yes. That the question is even asked implies, of course, that the constance is inclusive of belief that the answer could be yes: so therefore extrapolate that the answer must be yes.

wasalam

[north_malaysian]

You know, the more I learn about Islam, the more I think that myself.

To me, as a Christian, it seems like Muhammed came and undid everything Jesus had come, lived and died for ... to largely return to the old Jewish laws.

Of course, as a Christian I believe that Jesus' ressurection rang in God's New Covenant with his people - which meant many of the old laws became obsolete (I won't go into that here ... there is another thread elsewhere)

That's exactly why I find the whole idea of Muhammed's teachings so implausable ... why would God make a new convenant, and then change his mind and go back to the old ways?
It doesn't make sense to me. :?

I don't think Islam is a continuation of Christianity. Personally, I think it is a return to the Judaic laws, which disregards and goes against what Jesus did for us.
(Just my personal view, of course. Please feel free to believe otherwise. :) )

peace :)

At least Glo and others do realize that ISlam is closer to Judaism rather than to Christianity..... which means Christians do realize... thanks for answering...

[Malaikah]

So what about the religions that existed before Adam and Eve?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeol...figurines.html

Youre kidding right.. :? Adam was the first human created.....:rollseyes

[Curaezipirid]

Do Christians ever realise that they are VERY DIFFERENT from Jews and Muslims?

It looks like Islam is a continuation of Judaism rather than of Christianity...

:sl:

Islam is a continuation of the the religion followed by Adam(AS), Eve/Hawa(AS) and their Progeny.

Therefore we see that the Christians from an early age gave more priority to the miracles of Jesus and not keeping the original message or references.

[QUOTE=Ulysses;515372]

:sl: Islam is a continuation of the the religion followed by Adam(AS), Eve/Hawa(AS) and their Progeny.QUOTE]

So what about the religions that existed before Adam and Eve?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeol...figurines.html

Youre kidding right.. :? Adam was the first human created.....:rollseyes

Youre kidding right.. :? Adam was the first human created.....:rollseyes

On a planet far away in a far distant galaxy ? ? ?

It turns out that Religion is a necessity, not because any other beings in the far off reaches of Heaven have any difficulty in the science of proving that One God exists, but simply because all beings in all places are in need of a CULTURE which defines what is able to be known of all that there is to know, by defining what is not yours to know without forgetting the cause of existing.

However, it must be told that MOST of the people of the world whom were once Muslim and now are not are actually Christian.

I disagree in totality that Islam is more like Judaism that it is like Christianity.

I was raised a Christian by my mother but my father will not profess as a Christian because he has not the scientific basis within which to manifest Faith in Jesus. However in Islam that science is known. I became a Muslim only because I learned that science.

Islam might seem more like Judaism once it is taken into account that Shari'ah abrogates all Law in Torah. But only by those persons whom are yet to encounter the real evidence in Jesus.

The fact is that the evidence exists in Islam far more so that among the Christian Churches.

And by evidence I am meaning evidence that Jesus was hung upon a cross alongside theives and that he entered the fire of Jehannam and became ressurected to life. This is why His lesson is so very important. Not one of us could ever believe in the reality of the Prophesies without His example.

For Mujahideen Islam is most certainly a continuation of Christianity. But if your own belief in Jesus is not total, then you might not be able to learn.

We each are guided to that environment and Religious manifestation which best supports our ablity to sustain being a true believer in One God. The extent of immersion in Religion which is necessary so as to properly adhere belief to the reality in Jesus is actually far more than what most persons suppose to be able to afford; but is also that extent necessary for life hereafter.

Sometimes there are persons whom present facts in only half measures so as to themselves retain the full truth more clearly, and we need to beware of being mislead by such. For one person expressing only a half picture that can lead to miscomprehension is what enables them to be in certainty themself, while for another person it is only by expressing the whole truth that we can ourself be certain. So also be careful not to judge what is and what is not Islamic belief by what opinions are expressed here in this thread. Use the source material that references have been made to.

Assalamu Alaikum

[north_malaysian]

nice post curaezipirid :D

[Curaezipirid]

Tar, although I must admit that my description of letting a believer manifest expressions of only portions of the truth is not that which is required of any real student of full Islamic worth. However, when the student is becoming introduced to Islam, there are times when one portion of knowledge is provided before another. However in general the truth is that more often it is in a Christian context that the full exposition of any Religious teaching is not made. There are many American examples of a process of questioning in learning that enables a person to express not that which they truly believe, in order to more thoroughly sustain belief. But the Islamic practise is for a person to gradually begin to become unable to express any but the truth. Qur'an is formulated in a specific mode of language designed such that any person can sustain belief in it whilst expressing. That is the real difference between Qur'an and other ahadith; so could explain why distinct seperate hadith that are not Qur'an, are more often found to be distinctly interpreted in distinct situations by distinct individuals. This is also the key to the importance of learning Arabic.

Can I suggest to the woman whom is uncertain as to whether her Christianity will be supported within Islam that her best course of action can only be to learn Qur'an at Maryam; and to learn the Arabic language therein. Such work will provide her with the evidence she is requiring.

But it is important also to remember that different among Muslims are within a different degree of submission to the full teaching. Perhaps truly her entry point to Islam, if she is already a true believer in Jesus, might belong in a different pathway to that of the man she tells us of. Jesus teaching is in part made for persons whom can only take to re-express but one portion of the truth, so as that their expression will ever be in self decency. Yet Jesus teaching is also made for persons whom are totally immersed in Islam.

Maybe it is best to comprehend the full teaching as being tackled at one end by Christian teaching and from another end by that teaching of Islam. So in the sequence of learning different aspects become known first second and third, etc. That can explain why there is a strong point of veiw being expressed that there is more similarity between Islam and Judaism. To my perspective there might be two different ends to approach Islam by and when finding where they meet in the middle one can not but accept being also Christian. So for a person whom is first a Christian; if they have been able to sustain full faith as a true believer within all that has become wrong with Christian Churches, there can seem very much too much scholarship required of the Islamic student before arriving to the same conclusion. But the reason that Islam exists is simply because not all persons are able to sustain full Faith in Jesus without the kind of learning process that Islam provides. Islam teaches that all persons must be equally regarded in being supplied with what it is that enables us to sustain belief. That is, if one person requires a larger length of contact with a teacher, then so long as they are acquiring the lesson, it is best that they are enabled to sustain that length of contact; whereas if another person rapidly comprehends the same lesson and without a lengthy period of being reminded of it from an experienced teacher, then the resourcing of their education will take a different direction.

Wasalam

[Curaezipirid]

Yes.. in fact I do have some questions which I do hope you will be able to answer....and I mean them genuinely and not retoricly.
The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong?.
MOD: 1 question at a time.

salams I know lots of other folk have answered this post, and that they most likely done a better job of it - I guess by now Aishaa is probable also frustrated by the picture in which all of Shari'ah seems unable to be reconcilied in totality at one level, which we all know, of as being 100% reconcilible in the finer density matter, and know also that if we fall into being personally unable to reconcile any of, the matter is an individual concern in Allah, and never part of any Islamic teaching.

However this specific aspect of what might seem to be irreconcilible, is so very very reconcilible, that I wonder as to why she even asks.

In the beginning, we were not yet existing, and so we must take God/Allah's word for it that time existed preceeding our own existance, and that in that time He noticed that nothing was, and so made all of creation, of which we are only small parts. So Allah made us from nothing. That description is part of what defines Allah not what defines us.

From nothing manifested water, among other matter.

Water is liquid.

Liquid thickened.

As thick as mud, and of some parts same as in any ordinary mud.

So thick as to be liken to a clot, a clot in the flow of the muddy water.

The water thickened with some of the same substances as has mud, is that same substance as our blood. Have we not iron in our blood, as has the soil, and so also mud?

Actually clay is also only a form of dried mud, and we are, in our Human body, made of clay. Consider that clay, like many substances, has finer density matter which is a part of, and permanently attached to.

Perhaps you are not yet dried out or baked, that is fired, into a permanent vessel? Still able to be turned upon a wheel. Yet Allah was/is ever certain of the final outcome before He even began you.

If any aspect of what Aishaa asked had any inaccuracy, perhaps it is that of Qur'an 15:26 in the translation into "from mud"; but perhaps mud is only so versatile a word as clay?

The actual text:

YUSUFALI: We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.

implies that Allah made man from clay, but that the clay is made from mud. So it is not entirely accurate to tell that mud is what a Human in made from. Although there are quite some many of the Souls of the fallen, whom are sort of muddy like rather than clay like. Those whose will has ever been to become a part of what makes a complete born whole Human. No longer an Alaqa but a whole Soul.

Think then, how is it that mud becomes clay if not by fire?

Thanks for you post Aishaa.

Alaykmuassalamu wa Ramathuallahi wa Rabarakathuhu Rivaq

[_Mujahida]

[QUOTE=Aishaa;510422]
Prophet Mohammeds clear low opinion of women... Jesus never married let alone 9 wives and certainly never married a child.

you talk about propher mahammed (peace be upon him) marreied 9 wives how many women did Sulaymaan (peace be upon him) married in the Bible and also propher Jabob - peace be upon him, he had two wives and was married to two sisters at the same time, according to the Old Testament, as it says in the Book of Genesis 29:15-35. and also The father of the Prophets, Ibraaheem (Abraham - peace be upon him) was also married to two women, Haajar (Hagar) and Saara (Sarah).The Old Testament mentions that the Prophet of Allaah Dawood (David) had seventy or ninety-nine wives, and Sulaymaan (Solomon) had one hundred wives. These and other examples demonstrate that each of the Prophets implemented the laws that Allaah had prescribed.


So once this is understood, we will realize that plural marriage did not exist only in the law propher mahammed (peace be upon him) rather it existed in the laws of all the previous Prophets.

i ask Allaah to guide you and to help you find the true religion, which is Islam,

[Curaezipirid]

True I am believing with you sister,
just now I have been at the MyIslamWeb site where I had been holding my tongue(fingertips tongue) with anger about their moderators enabling a registered member whom was making false assertions about Aishaa and Mohammed, letting them post such, and also letting them go unchallenged, amid many complaints about the fact of the poster existing. Now I have made a post in respect of the matter which had bothered me months ago, because now my temper is no longer clouding my ablity to express the problem which is caused when any persons seeks to fault Mohammed in respect of Aishaa. Here I made a thread at myislamweb: http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9211

To end such things we must make ourselves intolerant to them; and that includes making ourselves intolerant to acquiring any money through the faults of those whom are not yet so intolerant.

HOwever, in the post I have just now made, my reference to "Aishaa" was not to the younger of the Prophet's wives, but to that person whom had been making posts in this thread earlier on in the course of it.

wasalam

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

Salaam & Peace Everyone,

i've just begun to read all the stuff in this thread, but i want to answer the the original question.

when i read about Allah(SWT) and His Oneness, i'm more inclined to see it as a continuation of Judaism, BUT, when i read about the Messenger of Allah(SAWS), i'm reminded of Jesus/Isa(as) MORE than ANYONE!

in fact alot of the sayings attributed to Jesus/Isa(as) seem best understood when reading or listening to lectures about him. especially in the pre-Hijra period.

i think it's best summed that in Faith, Islam is like Judaism; but in works it's "supposed" to be like Christianity.

pretty simple, really!

Peace,

Yusuf

:w:

[glo]

i think it's best summed that in Faith, Islam is like Judaism; but in works it's "supposed" to be like Christianity.

Interesting thought ...

[north_malaysian]

Can you reccomend any books I can buy about Prophet Mohammeds life that are written objectively as I would like to learn but not from Anti Islamic sites or Pro Islamic sites...

Karen Armstrong's "Muhammad: A Prophet of Our Time", and"Muhammad: a Biography of the Prophet"

F.E. Peters' Muhammad and the Origin of Islam"

[glo]

Karen Armstrong's "Muhammad: A Prophet of Our Time", and"Muhammad: a Biography of the Prophet"

F.E. Peters' Muhammad and the Origin of Islam"

I agree. Karen Armstrong is a fairly balanced source. I have read a book on Islam by her, and enjoyed it.

She is not a Muslim (she is, in fact, an ex-Catholic nun!), but calls herself a monotheist. She certainly is not negative towards Islam, but tries to be balanced.

Peace

[north_malaysian]

I agree. Karen Armstrong is a fairly balanced source. I have read a book on Islam by her, and enjoyed it.

She is not a Muslim (she is, in fact, an ex-Catholic nun!), but calls herself a monotheist. She certainly is not negative towards Islam, but tries to be balanced.

Peace

Agreed..... she's the one they featured in National Geographic Channel documentaries on Islam, right!!!?

[Malaikah]

you talk about propher mahammed (peace be upon him) marreied 9 wives how many women did Sulaymaan (peace be upon him) married in the Bible and also propher Jabob - peace be upon him, he had two wives and was married to two sisters at the same time, according to the Old Testament, as it says in the Book of Genesis 29:15-35. and also The father of the Prophets, Ibraaheem (Abraham - peace be upon him) was also married to two women, Haajar (Hagar) and Saara (Sarah).The Old Testament mentions that the Prophet of Allaah Dawood (David) had seventy or ninety-nine wives, and Sulaymaan (Solomon) had one hundred wives. These and other examples demonstrate that each of the Prophets implemented the laws that Allaah had prescribed.

:sl:

Mashaallah, this could in handy one day. ;) Jazakallah khayr.

[_Mujahida]

sister this just mk me think that peolpe they can say whateve they want about mahammed (peace be upon him) but what about what Bible say about Jabob, Ibraaheem Sulaymaan peace be upon them all what do they say about them?

[Curaezipirid]

Sometimes perhaps it is good only to remember that uneducated people, upon receiving even the minutest amount of Religious teaching, value it so highly that they can base their whole life's labour in just one passage of the word. Whether it is old testament or new, or Qur'an directly, or Veda, is not so important, but that it inspires the mind into working only for God/Allah becomes everything.

A woman and her child stayed at my house, and she is undereducated extremely for her intellect, and her child is ill prepared to enter school where he should by now already be. Their lives have been corrupted by the woman's mother being exiled from her home at Palm Island QLD Australia, when she was a child, (at palm island australia there are shayteen ruling including as a priest - it is where a man was killed by police and the death blows were so violent as to have burst his liver asunder - palm island was a prison island where Aborigines who kept on running away from the prisons of missions, or tried to do Corroborees in the missions, were placed - this is in QLD where until 1967 the legislation governing Aborigines is that which the South African appartheid Act was directly based upon.), and then being put into a life sentence in prison. The woman's mother will be let out this year. She went to prison herself some years ago just to be with her mother. Her child is very well behaved and although he is overly mature in his attitudes he has a fully rounded belief in God and in his own righteousness in living. He has been exposed to too much for a five year old, inclusive of much passive smoking of cannabis, and has an eating disorder connected to chocolate consumption. They stayed at my house to escape from the government officials whom would have removed the child from the mother. While it is easy to connect to why the child is in danger, because of his mother's cannabis smoking, we really need better connect with the fact that his mother believes fully in Allah, and is enabling her son the same. If he were to be removed he might only live a while with a family of non-believers. Yet his mind is so mature that he might only believe that it is his task, even now at five, to hold a family of non-believers into their own accountiblity in Allah.

The word of God which was with them was no more than a children's picture book telling that every child is loved by an Angel.

There comes a time when it is truly irrelevant what religion we ascribe to.

Surely every act of belief in the real world is an act of the continuety this thread is asking of.

My own belief is that many of my race of Australian Aborigines, are letting the mind be over used in youth, because the fear being generated by the economy is so fundamentally extreme as to make it intolerable for grown men. Many many males are, as boys, causing their minds to become unable to perceive what is happening. Yet within that state, so long as their immediate bodily needs are tended to without being abused, their work in Allah is real. I believe that it is happening to the men and not our women because they feel the future is holding armageddon, and are trying to to be the cause of. The young family who stayed with me were true to their consciences, and even though many arguments surrounded their stay with me, and they tried stealing from me, they also consciously left behind a piece of paper with writing on it in a clear form of apology and loving gratitude.

When our minds are, as is the case here in Australia for most of our Australian believers, white and black, so corrupted as to have been deluded about the cause and effect of our own deaths, yet can also recognise that as fact, we are all so afraid as to not want to bear with the mental comprehension of what is happening to us.

But yet even in this condition it is fully the case that it is the word, that is Qur'an, holding our self to the belief in our own Humanity. What ever the word is, which ever the prophet, and whom ever passes it on to us, there is ever continuety if the word is real, and the ears and eyes.

Salam

[Abdul-Raouf]

Do Christians ever realise that they are VERY DIFFERENT from Jews and Muslims?

It looks like Islam is a continuation of Judaism rather than of Christianity...

I agree with u....

Christians differ a lot... they changed themself...

[Amadeus85]

I am 46 years old and am married to an Egyptian MUslim.. it was this fact that I began to study Islam. I have not just studied the Quoran but some of the Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed and also the testomonies of Aisha.
I am told that Islam is a continuation of Christianity and that Christianity is not dismissed by Islam.. yet there are so many differences.
Christ said that violence in any form was wrong.. to turn the other cheek.. he also said to live by the sword is to die by the sword.. yet Prophet Mohammed was a leader of an entire army.
Jesus forgave a woman who was to be stoned to death and told people.. LEt he without sin cast the first stone.. no-one did because they knew they had all sinned in their own ways.. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more....Yet in the Quoran clearly talks about brutal punnishments that certain countries still practice today.
Jeus told us to drink red wine and take bread to remember him.. yet in Islam ALL alcahol is forbidden STrangely enough.. as a healer as Jesus was.. healing properties have been found in red wine.
Jesus said.. one woman for one man.. and all thier properties to be shared.. in the marriage ceremony of a Christian wedding.. the words are.. All what I have I share with you.. all what I am I give to you. Yet in Islam the wife only takes a share of an entire lifes worth when her husband dies and he can also have up to 4 wives.
I must make it clear at this point.. that I am not slamming Islam.. far from it.. I am merely pointing out just a few of the differences between the two religeons and yet I was told that Christianity is a continuation.
So if Islam is in fact a continuation.. why then are there so many differences.. one Muslim told me.. well Christianity didnt work so he talked to prophet Mohammed.. God in my mind does NOT make mistakes.
Id love to hear some other view points on this.

It is not my buisiness but do you realize what kind of problems and difficulties you, as a christian woman, will have after marrying a man from very different faith, a muslim ? I think that the same faith is the core and fundament of happy and good marriage. Maybe you dont see it now, but after many years the cultural and religious differences between you and your husband may become so big that living together would be extremely hard.
Of course i dont know exactly your situation, and character of your husband, but i have heard many examples about mix faith marriages that fall apart quickly. Are you aware that your husband will want to raise your children as muslims ? What is your opinion about that?

[جوري]

Calm down Aaron.. you seem to be bursting at the seams...

peace!