morocco to ban hijab?

[nishom]

Morocco changes religious syllabus
Islamonline.com
10/8/2006 8:30:00 AM GMT


"Why do Muslim women have to cover their heads?" This question is one which is asked by Muslim and non-Muslim alike. For many women it is the truest test of being a Muslim.

The answer to the question is very simple - Muslim women wear Hijah because Allah (SWT) has told them to do so.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them ..." (Qur'an 33:59)

Morocco announced recently making radical changes to religious education syllabus, in particular regarding whether Muslim girls should wear headscarves, BBC reported Friday.

The move is a sign of the Islamic country’s submission to persistent U.S. pressures to persuade Islamic states change religious education syllabus claiming that such changes would help contain the spread of radical views and limit the increase of terrorism.

Among the changes the Moroccan government made, was removing a picture of a mother and her daughter wearing Hijab, the Islamic headscarf, from the latest editions of a text book.

Also a verse from the Qur’an where it asks Muslim girls to wear the Hijab has been taken out of the books.

Abdelkarim El Houichre from the Association of Teachers of Islamic Education expressed doubts about the government's motives:

"I think there is pressure coming from the United States, which believes that teaching about traditional Islam and teaching girls to wear headscarves will somehow encourage extremism and terrorism," he said.

"But I think Islamic education has to be kept within mainstream teaching in our schools because that way we can control it. If we deny it to them in school then they will only go and find out more outside of school and they are more likely to fall into the wrong hands."

The context of hijab is the modest covering of a Muslim woman.

In public places, Muslim women and young ladies, those who reached puberty, must cover the entire body except what has been specifically excluded, based upon the following proofs: Allah says:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their head covers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to And that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And 0 you Believers! Turn you all together towards Allah in repentances that you may be successful." (24:31)

Also Allah says:

"0 Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments above themselves ( when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognized and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (33:59)

A Muslim woman’s dress should be thick and opaque so as not to display skin colour and the shape of her body. It shouldn’t be delicate or transparent.

[rania2820]

akhee its not halah for us to call other muslims kaffir unless we know for sure and we don't know what's in their hearts.we can their actions are from kuffur but we can't say that they are a kaffir.

but the leaders actions is very un-islamic.since when did wearing hijab become extreme.i think these leader just need to fear allah and stop worrying what the west thinks of them.because when we meet allah we will not care what people think of us we only be worried about whether we will make it to heaven or to hell.

[Muslim_4life]

Asslamulaikum
mm yeah Kaffirs is a bit harsh

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

yup it is kinda bro :p.. trus me i kno :offended:

anyhoooooooo, i cnt stand dese news honestli.. its gettin on ma nerves big style, dis world iz soooooooooooooo *crap* i hate it so much!

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[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

in general principle the ruler who rules by other than Allah has revealed is a kaffir. it is a general statement and is also made by Allah in the Quran.

now did i call the king a kaffir? did i call their prime minister a kaffir? no because that would be a personal declaration of takfir. i made a general statement that their rulers whomever they may be are kuffar for not ruling by islam.

in the same way i would not call x a kaffir for not praying, but i would say that those who do not pray are in principle kuffar.

understand?
one is a personal declaration of takfir which should be for the scholars or at least students of knowledge and the other is a general ruling and statement.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Th war on Islam.

And the moderates muslim are now the proxy to destroy Islamic teachings.

One day,they will ask,why do we NOT EAT PORK.
Why do we need to respect our parent.
Why do we need to pray five times a day.

All of these will make the moderte muslims happy,they want money for faith.


May these moderate muslim who sell the quran and guidance for a paltry price,recevie their just due.

[Musaafirah]

:sl:
Sheesh..whats going on with the world? It's jus gettin messed up! I jus hope that Morocco don't ban the Hijab like Tunisia did..
Sheesh..the world's messin up :|
:w:

[Umm Yoosuf]

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaah

They can and do as they wish at the end of the day Islam will prevail, indeed a promise from Allah, Most High. We Muslim need to work on our iman :)

[Isaac]

Salam. Did I just read that Tunisia Banned the hijaab. Thats the first time I have heard of that. If this doesnt wake us muslims up from ignorance what will. Seeing the laws of Allah being abolished one by one by those that conform to the Shadha is very scary indeed.

May Allah increase us in Taqwa and help us fight such evil. May Allah give strength to the muajideen who are in the state of jihaad for his sake and in order to make his worship one. And may Allah reward all the muslim brothers and sisters that stay firm and struggle to uphold the divine laws.

[nishom]

Its a very delicate situation and if Muslims dont make a stand, Jack straw's comments may lead to the ban of Niqaab. This will only give momentum for a ban on hijab altogether in the UK.

[S_87]

:sl:

to be honest what do we expect of the kuffar if our own fellow muslims are oppressing us?

[Zulkiflim]

:sl:

to be honest what do we expect of the kuffar if our own fellow muslims are oppressing us?

Salaam,

The Prophet has siad it rightly.

Respect your parent but shuld thy ask you to follow the path of ill,say NO.

Respect does not mean that you need to follow all they ask you to do.

Moderate muslim want to sell the Islamic teaching for a apltry price,to please their western master's.
But Muslim should always abide by the Quran,for as the Prophet say,we perform dakwah wiht our our vry being.

So always and never abandon the Quran and the Sunnah.
They want to take it away that is their loss,but we must maintian it and teach our children the guidance.

[Bittersteel]

I thought Bangladeshis and Arabs were the only Muslim puppets.oh Morocaans are Arabs,too right?
hang on.Did Morocco just remove a verse or planning to ban hijab altogether?I know the Moroccan authorities allow Christian evangelists inside the country.

[badrulhisyam]

i'm confused.isn't morrocco a muslim country? Why people hate islamthat much? why wearing a hijab for muslim ladies looksoffensive to others?brothersand sisters of islam,lets do justification for this. lets spread the good deed of islam to others.

[Ulysses]

"Why do Muslim women have to cover their heads?" This question is one which is asked by Muslim and non-Muslim alike. For many women it is the truest test of being a Muslim.

The answer to the question is very simple - Muslim women wear Hijah because Allah (SWT) has told them to do so.

Fortunately for the ongoing revolution of secular humanism, this sort of cop out is no longer considered either a legally-exonerating excuse, nor a sound justification for an adults personal behavior.

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2006/9/22/8357/66040

Most importantly, the Nuremberg Principles established that for all nations, whether they became signatories to the Principles or no, there is no excusing these crimes by any individual of any nation by means of claims that they were 'just following orders,' or by virtue of being a government official or head of state, or by claims of not knowing that it was a war crime, or of not being capable of stopping such crimes. No such excuses are allowed under international law.

[akulion]

Nuremberg Principles

same applies to Bush, Blair and their suporters I guess - after all they are responsible for the murder of over 100000 innocent civilians through their 'war on terrorism'

So why arent they on trial?

Or maybe its just a hypocritical law to begin with ;)

[Ulysses]

same applies to Bush, Blair and their suporters I guess - after all they are responsible for the murder of over 100000 innocent civilians through their 'war on terrorism'

So why arent they on trial?

Or maybe its just a hypocritical law to begin with ;)

You'll excuse me if I do not immediately jump at the crusader-baiting bush-bashing :) We can talk about that sort of thing later, but lets keep this one on topic for just a few posts.

I am not arguing that a Niqab or a Burkha are fundamentally wrong. Simply that wearing it because someone told them to do so is not a suitable excuse for breaking the law. It is illegal to go into public places in Great Britain with one's face concealed.

This law has been created for purely pragmatic reasons, as have most laws in Western democratic nations. Criminals make use of face concealment to hide their identity while they commit crimes. Whether or not Muslim females have committed crimes while wearing face concealing garb is irrelevant. The point is that, the law should apply equally to all citizens, irrespective of their race, creed, color. It is not in the mutual beneficience of the collective nation to allow some to breach a law on the basis that someone told them to do so.

[akulion]

well then simply because someone made the Nuremberg Principles dosent mean we have to follow it either :)

its a self defeating principle

[Dawud_uk]

Salam. Did I just read that Tunisia Banned the hijaab. Thats the first time I have heard of that. If this doesnt wake us muslims up from ignorance what will. Seeing the laws of Allah being abolished one by one by those that conform to the Shadha is very scary indeed.

May Allah increase us in Taqwa and help us fight such evil. May Allah give strength to the muajideen who are in the state of jihaad for his sake and in order to make his worship one. And may Allah reward all the muslim brothers and sisters that stay firm and struggle to uphold the divine laws.

assalaamu alaykum,

i have known a brother who wept because some of his in-laws were picked up by the army in tunisia and raped because they wore the niqab and apparently the soldiers and police use rape as a form of discouraging that.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Dawud_uk]

You'll excuse me if I do not immediately jump at the crusader-baiting bush-bashing :) We can talk about that sort of thing later, but lets keep this one on topic for just a few posts.

I am not arguing that a Niqab or a Burkha are fundamentally wrong. Simply that wearing it because someone told them to do so is not a suitable excuse for breaking the law. It is illegal to go into public places in Great Britain with one's face concealed.

This law has been created for purely pragmatic reasons, as have most laws in Western democratic nations. Criminals make use of face concealment to hide their identity while they commit crimes. Whether or not Muslim females have committed crimes while wearing face concealing garb is irrelevant. The point is that, the law should apply equally to all citizens, irrespective of their race, creed, color. It is not in the mutual beneficience of the collective nation to allow some to breach a law on the basis that someone told them to do so.

it is not illegial to conceal the face in the uk so your argument falls flat on its face.

[Durrah]

:sl:

Forget the soliders or police in tunisa Dawud, their former Prime Minister, the head of state, in a speech called upon Tunisians to treat women with hijabs or niqabs as prositutes and humiliate them in any way possiable thus encouring rape. The soliders are only going on from orders from those in leadership have been calling upon for many years! Its tragic though to hear about is still going on though, to your friends family.

*********************

As for this ban in morroco, its similar of whats going happining in most muslim countries who are headed or lead by 'muslim' rulers who are scared of been thrown off. These leaders are frightened of a rapidly growing revival of islam amongst the civilan population, especially amongst the younger generation where the growth of islam is spreading faster. They are trying to stifle this in everyway possiable by controlling the masjids, changing the school ciriculam (who make up over half of all the population), imprisioning innocent sheiks or scholars etc. A friend of mine went tunisa for holiday and told me that she saw many more sisters in hijab in tunisia and dressing more modestly then there ever was in the country. Its the same in morrocco, egypt, algeria. Islam is reviving and with whats going on around the world to muslim in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechyna etc... muslims are starting to become more concious of themselves, the state of their country and how islam is practised. This is turn makes the goverments more nervous as they dont want to lose their power. Thats why they keep doing things like this. Expect to see more of it in the coming years!

[Janissary]

Uh huh, where did you get that from?

Edit: Durrah, I was referring to the first part of your post. I'm too new here to be able to edit posts.

[Durrah]

:sl:

jan, it was an extract from a speech i had of his. Inshallah i will try my upmost to find it and post it up. I actually wanted to post it up, next to my statement to show you guys all how low these people are, but i've lost it indoors (it was on paper). Had a bit of a spring cleaning during the week so im not sure where its at lol.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So much for people saying "mind your own business!" If Mary was to live in this century, would u tell her u cant wear the veil because its our rule? I doubt it. Is she going to listen to u or God? I think u can answer that. People want to ban the very thing they respect Mary and Nuns for! How hypocritical!

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

they plot and Allah plots and Allah is the best of plotters

the more they trample of us, the more we rise up against them.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[gamsta3]

:sl:

Yeah, its my country of origin. My family, some of them wear hijabs but they all go to fortune tellers and dead people worship is strife. Islamic knowledege is very rare, the people are very ignorant about their religions. I m not surprised to hear they are heading that direction, in tunisia, i think the hijab is banned.

[Ulysses]

So much for people saying "mind your own business!" If Mary was to live in this century, would u tell her u cant wear the veil because its our rule? I doubt it. Is she going to listen to u or God? I think u can answer that. People want to ban the very thing they respect Mary and Nuns for! How hypocritical!

I think the use of the term "ban" is perhaps inflammatory given that the statements so far have been a call for dialogue about the matter, at least with reference to the Jack Straw comments.

I do not doubt that many Christians respect a Nun or Mary of Magdalene for their clothing, but as a citizen in a secular humanist society I am not one of those persons. I do not dis-respect a woman because she feels that covering her body constitutes an expression of modesty. But I also do not disrespect a woman who feels that not covering any part of her body constitutes an expression of modesty.

Consider the concept of modesty. In English, and most Indo-European languages, this concept is essentially the opposite of pride. Pride being a large sense of self-value, self-importance, or self-distinction.

As I understand it (and I welcome your kind corrections if I am wrong) the underlying logic of wearing a veil is that, a woman's body is intrinsically sexually alluring, is also highly valuable and important as a medium of maternity, and is distinctive from that of a male. The need to cover this physical form derives from the magnitude of these characteristics for any particular woman, and to not agree to cover herself reflects either a lack of her intrinsic merits along these lines, else a sinful misapprehension on her part of her value in these ways.

Thus, it should be possible for the covering of this intrinsically highly alluring, valuable, important and distinctive physical manifestation to be regarded as much as an action of pride as it is one of modesty. After all, clothing will not go with any of us into an afterlife, and it is not with us when we come into this world either. Thus, the idea is that adorning the human form with Earthly property is necessary as a way to hide away the highly valuable and sought-after commodity which each woman is endowed with. Based on this line of thinking, one could alternatively propose that, having the confidence, and the self-depracating view that one's body has no more intrinsic value to it than one attributes is the more modest viewpoint.

To be sure, FLAUNTING one's physciality for the purposes of alluring, seducing, or otherwise exploiting constitutes prideful, or if you prefer sinful, but how is the naked face of a woman any more intrinsically an act of flaunting herself than is the naked face of a man?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Consider the concept of modesty. In English, and most Indo-European languages, this concept is essentially the opposite of pride. Pride being a large sense of self-value, self-importance, or self-distinction.

As I understand it (and I welcome your kind corrections if I am wrong) the underlying logic of wearing a veil is that, a woman's body is intrinsically sexually alluring, is also highly valuable and important as a medium of maternity, and is distinctive from that of a male. The need to cover this physical form derives from the magnitude of these characteristics for any particular woman, and to not agree to cover herself reflects either a lack of her intrinsic merits along these lines, else a sinful misapprehension on her part of her value in these ways.

Thus, it should be possible for the covering of this intrinsically highly alluring, valuable, important and distinctive physical manifestation to be regarded as much as an action of pride as it is one of modesty. After all, clothing will not go with any of us into an afterlife, and it is not with us when we come into this world either. Thus, the idea is that adorning the human form with Earthly property is necessary as a way to hide away the highly valuable and sought-after commodity which each woman is endowed with. Based on this line of thinking, one could alternatively propose that, having the confidence, and the self-depracating view that one's body has no more intrinsic value to it than one attributes is the more modest viewpoint.

To be sure, FLAUNTING one's physciality for the purposes of alluring, seducing, or otherwise exploiting constitutes prideful, or if you prefer sinful, but how is the naked face of a woman any more intrinsically an act of flaunting herself than is the naked face of a man?

No one is forcing anyone to cover. If they want to flaunt, be my guest. If they chose to do so, they must bare the consequences that come with it. I have seen and heard many many times about girls being sexually harassed by the opposite gender because she is flaunting herself. You cant say "i wear it becuz i feel like it." Why else would someone wear small clothes and show herself? Attention obviously. If they didnt do it for attention, then they would do what we do. We do it becuz we dont put ourselves in a low position and crave attention. As a Muslim we are recommended to cover everything except what appears ordinary of. That means the face and hands up to the wrist. It's the womans choice if she wants to cover her face and no one else. Would u like if I was a guy and asked your sister to remove her blouse? No right? You would get angry, naturally. So why the double standards?

[~Stranger~]

:sl:

assalaamu alaykum,

in general principle the ruler who rules by other than Allah has revealed is a kaffir. it is a general statement and is also made by Allah in the Quran.

now did i call the king a kaffir? did i call their prime minister a kaffir? no because that would be a personal declaration of takfir. i made a general statement that their rulers whomever they may be are kuffar for not ruling by islam.

in the same way i would not call x a kaffir for not praying, but i would say that those who do not pray are in principle kuffar.

understand?
one is a personal declaration of takfir which should be for the scholars or at least students of knowledge and the other is a general ruling and statement.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

that was not harsh brother, that was the truth. u r obliged to declare kufr on taghot

to be honest what do we expect of the kuffar if our own fellow muslims are oppressing us?

We Muslim need to work on our iman

exactly!!! Allah wont change whats within us till e change whats within ourselves
:w:

[Musaafirah]

Salam. Did I just read that Tunisia Banned the hijaab. Thats the first time I have heard of that. If this doesnt wake us muslims up from ignorance what will. Seeing the laws of Allah being abolished one by one by those that conform to the Shadha is very scary indeed.

May Allah increase us in Taqwa and help us fight such evil. May Allah give strength to the muajideen who are in the state of jihaad for his sake and in order to make his worship one. And may Allah reward all the muslim brothers and sisters that stay firm and struggle to uphold the divine laws.

:sl:
Indeed, you read right..it doesn't oppose 'visitors' to the country to wear hijab..but the women residing in the country aren't allowed to wear hijab, and the men get arrested for praying in the Masjid. Messed up!
:w:

[Maimunah]

:sl:
Indeed, you read right..it doesn't oppose 'visitors' to the country to wear hijab..but the women residing the country aren't allowed to wear hijab, and the men get arrested for praying in the Masjid. Messed up!
:w:

subhanaAllah dont they fear Allah
i so do not want to live there:cry:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

waa thats so messed up! they obviously do not fear Allah(swt) if they do that :heated:

[Woodrow]

All I can say is there have been some big changes since the 1950's and early 1960's. It seems that as the US pulled out of Morocco the more Westernized it has become. From the 1940s through the 1960's there was a huge US military presence in Morocco. The SAC bases at Sidi Slimane and Marrakesh. The MATS base at Nouasseur, the naval base at Kenitra and numerous army forts and radar stations throughout the country. In the 1960s King Hassan refused to renew any US leases and the US military presense was asked to leave the country. I may be wrong but at the moment I do not think there any US installations in Morocco.

What happened to Morocco?

[*love4isl@m*]

:sl:
:heated: Noo way! i cant take what they r doing to the muslims!!!
& Tunisia already banned scarf :astagfiru wallah i dislike their actions :grumbling ,
Insha'allah I Hope that they will stop the intention of banning scarves in morocco and
tunisia will change their mind and allow them 2 wear hijaab again insha'allah! :'(

Wa3alikum salaam
Fii amani Allah

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

InshAllah!

[al Amaanah]

Morocco changes religious syllabus
Islamonline.com
10/8/2006 8:30:00 AM GMT


"Why do Muslim women have to cover their heads?" This question is one which is asked by Muslim and non-Muslim alike. For many women it is the truest test of being a Muslim.

The answer to the question is very simple - Muslim women wear Hijah because Allah (SWT) has told them to do so.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them ..." (Qur'an 33:59)

Morocco announced recently making radical changes to religious education syllabus, in particular regarding whether Muslim girls should wear headscarves, BBC reported Friday.

The move is a sign of the Islamic country’s submission to persistent U.S. pressures to persuade Islamic states change religious education syllabus claiming that such changes would help contain the spread of radical views and limit the increase of terrorism.

Among the changes the Moroccan government made, was removing a picture of a mother and her daughter wearing Hijab, the Islamic headscarf, from the latest editions of a text book.

Also a verse from the Qur’an where it asks Muslim girls to wear the Hijab has been taken out of the books.

Abdelkarim El Houichre from the Association of Teachers of Islamic Education expressed doubts about the government's motives:

"I think there is pressure coming from the United States, which believes that teaching about traditional Islam and teaching girls to wear headscarves will somehow encourage extremism and terrorism," he said.

"But I think Islamic education has to be kept within mainstream teaching in our schools because that way we can control it. If we deny it to them in school then they will only go and find out more outside of school and they are more likely to fall into the wrong hands."

The context of hijab is the modest covering of a Muslim woman.

In public places, Muslim women and young ladies, those who reached puberty, must cover the entire body except what has been specifically excluded, based upon the following proofs: Allah says:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their head covers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to And that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And 0 you Believers! Turn you all together towards Allah in repentances that you may be successful." (24:31)

Also Allah says:

"0 Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments above themselves ( when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognized and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (33:59)

A Muslim woman’s dress should be thick and opaque so as not to display skin colour and the shape of her body. It shouldn’t be delicate or transparent.

Now im so not proud to be moroccan.:grumbling

[al Amaanah]

Since when would they ban the hijab in morocco? i went there on vacation in the summer, and there wasnt any thing yet told about banning the hijab?

[Woodrow]

Since when would they ban the hijab in morocco? i went there on vacation in the summer, and there wasnt any thing yet told about banning the hijab?

I find it difficult to believe that it would be banned in Morocco. I no longer have any personal contacts living in Morocco. I would like to hear something from somebody currently living in Morocco.

[Lina]

Since when would they ban the hijab in morocco? i went there on vacation in the summer, and there wasnt any thing yet told about banning the hijab?

:sl:

Yep, I didn't hear anything about it either.

There also has not been anything about it on M1 or 2.

Pretty strange. Allahu A'lam.

[al Amaanah]

Allahoe a3lam!

[Janissary]

:sl:
Indeed, you read right..it doesn't oppose 'visitors' to the country to wear hijab..but the women residing in the country aren't allowed to wear hijab, and the men get arrested for praying in the Masjid. Messed up!
:w:

Sorry for reanimating a thread, been away for a while. Where did you get the part about getting arrested for praying in the masjid? Sounds suspicious.

It's true that some leaders of Islamic countries seek to contain the societal influence of Islam to strengthen their own position, but prevent access to masjids? Sounds like political suicide to me.

[M2A^AKIB^]

Is Morocco trying to be the next Turkey (the country)?

[Skillganon]

Concerning the OP, what is related in the Quran is so true.

[hakkerz]

assalaamu alaykum,

in general principle the ruler who rules by other than Allah has revealed is a kaffir. it is a general statement and is also made by Allah in the Quran.

now did i call the king a kaffir? did i call their prime minister a kaffir? no because that would be a personal declaration of takfir. i made a general statement that their rulers whomever they may be are kuffar for not ruling by islam.

in the same way i would not call x a kaffir for not praying, but i would say that those who do not pray are in principle kuffar.

understand?
one is a personal declaration of takfir which should be for the scholars or at least students of knowledge and the other is a general ruling and statement.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Is it really for anybody to tell another that they are Kaafirs? Being learned or a Aalim doesnt make you perfect or even neccesarily good. We dont know the full story most of the time, even when we think we do. Even Prophets sometimes didnt know the full truth of the matter, for example Moses and Khudar... Its not for us to quickly go and kaafir others, irrespective of how learned we are. I simply dont think it is a judgement for us to make. There are soo many stories of 'exceptions' where normally we would take somebody to be a kaafir, but they are, for whatever reason, not kaafirs it turns out. They may be exceptions, but i think you must always assume the best. Also, i think in essence, telling somebody they are a kaafir is probably one of the last things that person wants to hear. If for example, i dont pray, and i go to a scholar, and tell me, and the scholar says, ok, i will help you begin praying, but by the way, you do know you are a kafir? I would be like huh!? I would begin to lose hope. Im coming at this more from a logical point of view, as opposed to islamic jurisprudence.

[hakkerz]

Sorry for reanimating a thread, been away for a while. Where did you get the part about getting arrested for praying in the masjid? Sounds suspicious.

It's true that some leaders of Islamic countries seek to contain the societal influence of Islam to strengthen their own position, but prevent access to masjids? Sounds like political suicide to me.

I agree. ive been to morroco, and i prayed in the mosques...hmm..i dont remember getting arrested.

[Skillganon]

Is it really for anybody to tell another that they are Kaafirs? Being learned or a Aalim doesnt make you perfect or even neccesarily good. We dont know the full story most of the time, even when we think we do. Even Prophets sometimes didnt know the full truth of the matter, for example Moses and Khudar... Its not for us to quickly go and kaafir others, irrespective of how learned we are. I simply dont think it is a judgement for us to make. There are soo many stories of 'exceptions' where normally we would take somebody to be a kaafir, but they are, for whatever reason, not kaafirs it turns out. They may be exceptions, but i think you must always assume the best. Also, i think in essence, telling somebody they are a kaafir is probably one of the last things that person wants to hear. If for example, i dont pray, and i go to a scholar, and tell me, and the scholar says, ok, i will help you begin praying, but by the way, you do know you are a kafir? I would be like huh!? I would begin to lose hope. Im coming at this more from a logical point of view, as opposed to islamic jurisprudence.

Assalamu Alaikum brother

I am glad to hear their is new brothr here, may Allah grant you sucess in this life and the heareafter.

I really don't think brother Dawud called anyone Kafir, but banning the Hijab is an act of Kaffur, or even supporting it.
He is not talking about if anyone is not praying or not. Not praying does not make somone a kaffir, this is something an individual do has to learn.


What he is talking about is the person who is "banning" (emphasis on banning)) the Hijab, the muslim dress that is according to the Quran and the sunnah, is commiting an act of Kuffar. What else can you call it?

If the story is indeed true, it is logical any scholar will agree that the person is commiting an act of kuffar and I personally think it is likely any scholars will deem him a kaffir.

[hakkerz]

Assalamu Alaikum brother

I am glad to hear their is new brothr here, may Allah grant you sucess in this life and the heareafter.

I really don't think brother Dawud called anyone Kafir, but banning the Hijab is an act of Kaffur, or even supporting it.
He is not talking about if anyone is not praying or not. Not praying does not make somone a kaffir, this is something an individual do has to learn.


What he is talking about is the person who is "banning" (emphasis on banning)) the Hijab, the muslim dress that is according to the Quran and the sunnah, is commiting an act of Kuffar. What else can you call it?

If the story is indeed true, it is logical any scholar will agree that the person is commiting an act of kuffar and I personally think it is likely any scholars will deem him a kaffir.

Oh, appologies for my misunderstanding then. I agree that banning the hijab is an act of kufr, etc. However, lol..you said that 'Praying does not make someone a kaffir', Pop over to the Do not pray but do good deeds post and join the discussion.lool (http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...d-deeds-3.html)