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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 12:33 AM
hello here

If Jesus was GOD


If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of
crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?

The "God" Title:
How come Christians take the "God" (theos in Greek) title literally with Jesus in Isiah 9:6 and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called Gods ?
The Prophets who were called "God" in the Bible are as follows:
Prophet Moses in Exodus 7:1
The Devil in Corinthians 4:4 (the word for God in this verse is theos in Greek, the same used for Jesus that was translated as "God")
Multiple Prophets in Psalms 82:6
King David in Psalm 45:3
Note: The only unique title given to GOD in the Bible that was not given to others at all are Jehova, GOD, and GOD LORD. "God", "Most Mighty" and "Almighty One" are titles that were given to Jesus, other Prophets and to Satan himself in the Bible.

Very important note: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and Hebrew the father of the house can be called the God of the house? Jesus was the God (father or leader) of his people and their father according to Isiah 9:6. Jesus being the leader and the king, it is normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isiah 9:6), and because he is their father he automatically becomes their God. My father is my God in Arabic and Hebrew.

The "Son" Title:
How come Christians take the "God's Son" title literally with Jesus and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called the Sons of God?
In John 3:16 Jesus was called God's only Begotten Son.
In Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my firstborn." Isreal was called God's First Son.
In Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim is God's First Son and First Born.In Psalm 2:7 "... Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." David was called God's Begotten Son.

Were Jesus's Miracle's Unique?
If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then what about the others who performed the same miracles?

Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).

[Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2 Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2 Kings 6:17,20).

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings 4:34). Even Elisha's dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings 13:21).
Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9)"

In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him, which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' "

Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, ..."

The Point that I am trying to prove:

Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross .

<wasalam alaykum>
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 01:19 AM
"Hear O' Israel, the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is one!

Shema Yisrael Hashem Eloyhenu, Hashem Echad!

The most important prayer of the Jewish people. It is followed by chanting of three paragraphs of the most important commandements we are given. Shema Yisrael comprises of Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21, and Numbers 15:37-41.

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akulion
10-11-2006, 01:21 AM
care to translate?
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
care to translate?
http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm

:)
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akulion
10-11-2006, 01:28 AM
thanks :)
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Keltoi
10-11-2006, 02:11 AM
wow, another thread about telling Christians what they believe is wrong...who could have thunk it.
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 06:46 AM
hello..

wow, another thread about telling Christians what they believe is wrong...who could have thunk it.
..

mmmm...

...could u Calculate 1+1+1 ?? ...don't close ur eyes about the truth

Christ in Islam

The "God" That Never Was

if u have a time Let the Bible Speak


May Allah direct u to the rigith path...

<wasalam>
Reply

Malaikah
10-11-2006, 06:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
wow, another thread about telling Christians what they believe is wrong...who could have thunk it.
Actually it would seem that some pretty solid evidence was presented, it appears to be your own bible telling you that you are wrong.

Rather than just complaining that someone is telling you that you are wrong, perhaps you would care to explain any misconceptions you believe may have been communicated by the post or why those references dont stop billions of christians from believing that Jesus is the son of God?

Afterall, this is the comparative religion section.
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Keltoi
10-11-2006, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
Actually it would seem that some pretty solid evidence was presented, it appears to be your own bible telling you that you are wrong.

Rather than just complaining that someone is telling you that you are wrong, perhaps you would care to explain any misconceptions you believe may have been communicated by the post or why those references dont stop billions of christians from believing that Jesus is the son of God?

Afterall, this is the comparative religion section.
There have been numerous threads on this issue for quite some time. I don't feel the need to respond to a repeating thread. You are right, this is a comparative religion section, not a "Christians must justify their beliefs because they are wrong" section.
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Actually it would seem that some pretty solid evidence was presented, it appears to be your own bible telling you that you are wrong.
I assume I would be susceptible to fall prey to this argument if I did not study Tanakh a lot and know Hebrew to realize that Muslim writers are mistranslated and taking verses out of context.
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snakelegs
10-11-2006, 06:40 PM
actually, i am getting tired of all the "my religion is better than yours" and the "what's wrong with your religion" threads.
seems a silly waste of time to me. i've seen this type of thing from christians as well as muslims, tho naturally, being an islamic forum, it is more common from muslims.
can't you just acknowledge that you follow different paths and even if you can't understand each other, learn to respect that these beliefs are important to people. you are not going to convince each other anyway - and why should you?
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 06:46 PM
The problem is that the bickering between Muslims and Christians are so big is because there paths contradict. Both cannot be right... and one has to be lieing.
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 06:51 PM
hello...Keltoi..

There have been numerous threads on this issue for quite some time. I don't feel the need to respond to a repeating thread. You are right, this is a comparative religion section, not a "Christians must justify their beliefs because they are wrong" section
No i do'nt think that..u wellcome here..any time...feel free..just ask..
i'm here 4 u and also these section 4 u....

u know why...if u know reality of islam...and put ur hand on the Turth..
i'm sure if u find someone show u it ...in the right way i'm sure u don't Lie ur eyes..

some days ...insha` Allah..i'll say to u...May brother in islam..

.......
u know i know ....u love Allah so much....but u should be Turthseeker..

u sould looking 4 the right way to warship Allah...
......
any Question All my time 4 u...

May Allah direst u to the right path and All us meet in paradise ...

<wasalam>
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wilberhum
10-11-2006, 06:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
The problem is that the bickering between Muslims and Christians are so big is because there paths contradict. Both cannot be right... and one has to be lieing.
Lieing? I think not. Both are stating what they believe.

But still it is a Straw Man type statement.
You leave out the posibility, and I think probability, both are wrong.
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Lieing? I think not. Both are stating what they believe.

But still it is a Straw Man type statement.
You leave out the posibility, and I think probability, both are wrong.

Maybe Lieing is not the word.... One has to be false, for the other to be true...
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wilberhum
10-11-2006, 07:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Maybe Lieing is not the word.... One has to be false, for the other to be true...
I like that much better, but still both can be wrong.
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جوري
10-11-2006, 07:03 PM
it is lying for goodness sake!
one day God will judge amongst us in that which we differ........
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 07:05 PM
I assume I would be susceptible to fall prey to this argument if I did not study Tanakh a lot and know Hebrew to realize that Muslim writers are mistranslated and taking verses out of context..
I did not study Tanakh a lot
it's k study it and come and feel free...


know Hebrew to realize that Muslim writers are mistranslated and taking verses out of context..
who's the translate it..??

All these translate by ur hand ....

..........
any way....do'nt say mistranslated...agian...feel free u have ...verses No.
see the truth by ur eyes by any lang...even Hebrew....

.......
islamicfajr
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glo
10-11-2006, 07:07 PM
Dear islamfajr

Thank you for your friendly welcome here. May I welcome you too as a new member to this forum! :)

This site is fabulous and has taught me no end of things about Islam.
As you say, I only have to ask, and people are more than happy to explain their religion to me!

There is one thing I have learned about evangelising/dawah - and that's that is can only ever be that: the explaining of one's faith to a willing ear.
Anything else - repeatedly talking about one's faith despite people not being interested, or aggressively trying to undermine other people's faith - is just counterproductive, will only lead to division and tension between faiths, and will never ever lead people to the religion in question!

Your approach here may make for lengthy threads and many replies, but if your intention is truly to show people true Islam, you are going the wrong way about it!
It is the quiet and peaceful members in this forum who gain my respect and prick my interest in thei religion - they are the ones more likely to turn people towards Islam than people like you ever will!

I wish you peace, and hope that you will learn much here.

In the meantime, I will continue to follow Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God, and my personal saviour.
The Bible tells me so! :D

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
peace :)
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 07:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I like that much better, but still both can be wrong.

Oh for sure. I believe that they are both wrong.
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Keltoi
10-11-2006, 07:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Oh for sure. I believe that they are both wrong.
I don't view Judaism or Islam as "wrong", as long as the ultimate goal is peace, understanding, and the worship of the One God. Yes, we differ in many things, but to me the most important aspect of all of this is our belief in God.
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 07:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't view Judaism or Islam as "wrong", as long as the ultimate goal is peace, understanding, and the worship of the One God. Yes, we differ in many things, but to me the most important aspect of all of this is our belief in God.
I believe Monotheism is correct, but the teachings and beliefs of some religions are wrong. To clarify.
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 08:40 PM
actually, i am getting tired of all the "my religion is better than yours" and the "what's wrong with your religion" threads.
seems a silly waste of time to me. i've seen this type of thing from christians as well as muslims, tho naturally, being an islamic forum, it is more common from muslims.
can't you just acknowledge that you follow different paths and even if you can't understand each other, learn to respect that these beliefs are important to people. you are not going to convince each other anyway - and why should you?
mmmmm...


53] Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [53] Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [54] "Turn ye to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that ye shall not be helped. [55] "And follow the Best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while ye perceive not! - [56] "Lest the soul should (then) say: `Ah! woe is me! in that I neglected (my Duty) towards Allah, and was but among those who mocked!' [57] "Or (lest) it should say: 'If only Allah had guided me, I should certainly have been among the righteous!' [58] "Or (lest) it should say when it (actually) sees the Penalty: 'If only I had another chance, I should certainly be among those who do good!' [59] "(The reply will be:) ' Nay, but there came to thee My Signs, and thou didst reject them: thou wast haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith!'" [60] On the Day of Judgment wilt thou see those who told lies against Allah; their faces will be turned black; is there not in Hell an abode for the Haughty? 61] But Allah will deliver the righteous to their place of salvation: no evil shall touch them, nor shall they grieve. [62] Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs. [63] To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth: and those who reject the Signs of Allah, it is they who will be in loss. [64] Say: "Is it someone other than Allah that ye order me to worship, O ye ignorant ones?" [65] But it has already been revealed to thee, - as it was to those before thee - "If thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be in the ranks of those who lose (all spiritual good)." [66] Nay, but worship Allah, and be of those who give thanks. [67]No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: on the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him! (39:53-67)




Allah sent messengers

And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;.
(4:64)

And...u should know Muslim believe in all the messengers..

[136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam)." (2:136)

The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
(2:285)..

But...the previous scriptures...

But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).
(5:13)

.....u should know that...the last messenger...

And Muhammad is no more than an apostle; the apostles have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful. (3:144)

...and Allah sent the last messenger prophet , Muhammad to..

And We have not sent you but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most men do not know.
(34:28)

===========
finally....

[2] Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to Allah's Will) in Islam (15:2)
.........

[95] For sufficient are We unto thee against those who scoff,
[96] Those who adopt, with Allah, another god: but soon will they come to know. (15:95-96)


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duskiness
10-11-2006, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
can't you just acknowledge that you follow different paths and even if you can't understand each other, learn to respect that these beliefs are important to people. you are not going to convince each other anyway - and why should you?
hi there...
Maybe i'm one-sided, but i would say that most christian members who post on regular basis here, "acknowledge that we follow different paths" without problems. It's true that we rarely leave comments about our faith unanswered, and sometimes we loose our temper, but Snakelegs! it's our faith! it's normal we are emotional about it!
although i bet that this Mulism-Christian "battle ground" must be boring for someone who is not standing on one of the sides.
Even i get sometimes bored with it! :giggling:
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 09:04 PM
Hello...glo..

u wellcome here..

There is one thing I have learned about evangelising/dawah - and that's that is can only ever be that: the explaining of one's faith to a willing ear.

=============================
The Methodology of Giving Da'wah

=============================




قُلْ هَـذِهِ سَبِيلِي أَدْعُو إِلَى اللّهِ عَلَى بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَاْ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِي وَسُبْحَانَ اللّهِ وَمَا أَنَاْ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ



Say (O Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam)): "This is my way; I invite unto Allâh (i.e. to the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me (also must invite others to Allâh i.e to the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) with sure knowledge. And Glorified and Exalted be Allâh (above all that they associate as partners with Him). And I am not of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh; those who worship others along with Allâh or set up rivals or partners to Allâh)."
Yusuf (12):108


=======================================


ادْعُ إِلِى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam)) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.

An-Nahl (16):125


===========================


وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)."

Al-'Ankabut (29)
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islamicfajr
10-11-2006, 09:11 PM

....glo....

In the meantime, I will continue to follow Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God, and my personal saviour.
The Bible tells me so!

Allah saied :

Let there be no compulsion in religion: .....(2:256)

=================

Also Allah saied in: surat Al-Kafiroun




In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] Say: O ye that reject Faith!

[2] I worship not that which ye worship,

[3] Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

[4] And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

[5] Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

[6] To you be your Way, and to me mine
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 09:21 PM
it's k study it and come and feel free...
It's obvious you do not understand.

I said I would believe the complete BS you are spilling to all of us if I did not study the Tanakh.

But I do study it, and realise that you are deceptive and that you spread lies and mistranslate verses.
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glo
10-11-2006, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
... , but i would say that most christian members who post on regular basis here, "acknowledge that we follow different paths" without problems.
Hi duskiness :)

I agree with what you say, but i think we have to recognise that those non-Muslims who stick it out in this forum as long as we have, must - by definition - have be fairly tolerant and respecting towards other faiths ... otherwise we would have gotten ourselves banned or we would have given up this forum a long time ago!

However, that does not mean that we are necessarily representative of all Christians!
I have seen Christians say painfully ignorant and hurtful things about Islam and other faiths - not so much here, as in other forums ( you know ... :D )
Even i get sometimes bored with it! :giggling:
No kidding!
I'm feeling old and worn-out when I read threads like this!

I wonder if anybody might be interested in discussing the trinity ... :hiding:

LOL

glo
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glo
10-11-2006, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
Hello...glo..

u wellcome here..




=============================
The Methodology of Giving Da'wah
...


format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr

....glo....


Allah saied :

Let there be no compulsion in religion: .....(2:256)

=================

Also Allah saied in: surat Al-Kafiroun




In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] Say: O ye that reject Faith!

[2] I worship not that which ye worship,

[3] Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

[4] And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

[5] Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

[6] To you be your Way, and to me mine
Thank you for bringing these things to my attention. :)

If those are the principles of Islam, can I ask you why you then feel the need to attack my faith in the manner you do?
Should it not be enough that I have my way, and you have yours?

Can I respectfully ask you not to post threads which undermine and attack Christianity?
It would go a long way to create understanding, peace and friendship between our faiths.

I have spent many hours in this forum trying to explain my faith and clarify misunderstandings - as have many of my Christian brothers and sisters here.
Please feel free to browse the various threads. You may find them interesting!

May God's peace and blessing be with you, islamicfajr! :)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-12-2006, 12:05 AM
I dont think anyone really wants to attack another persons religion( I hope so). I think sometimes some us dont start it out right and ive seen it. But I still havent gotten a perfectly clear answer to the trinity. I understand people explain in the way they understand it but it doesnt click to me =\
Neways..dont hate, appreciate!

Peace
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snakelegs
10-12-2006, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
hi there...
Maybe i'm one-sided, but i would say that most christian members who post on regular basis here, "acknowledge that we follow different paths" without problems. It's true that we rarely leave comments about our faith unanswered, and sometimes we loose our temper, but Snakelegs! it's our faith! it's normal we are emotional about it!
although i bet that this Mulism-Christian "battle ground" must be boring for someone who is not standing on one of the sides.
Even i get sometimes bored with it! :giggling:
duskiness,
you are right! none of the regular people here who identify themselves as christian have been guilty of this. if fact, you are some of the best christians i have ever run in to!
the others usually don't last. also, i think i am guilty of making assumptions about those "undisclosed" being christian.
do you see any point in christians and muslims playing these games of "mine is better than yours - yours is wrong and nothing but lies?"
yes, it is natural to be emotional about your faith, but i see nothing beneficial about posting threads like this one (and at least 9 other similar ones recently, for example). it accomplishes nothing except to hurt the feelings of other members.
we need to learn to live together and appreciate that we are different. and that is how it should be, in my opinion.
Reply

snakelegs
10-12-2006, 01:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
The problem is that the bickering between Muslims and Christians are so big is because there paths contradict. Both cannot be right... and one has to be lieing.
aha, this is exactly what is inherently bad about the concept of One True Religion! this view makes a religion dependent on others being false or wrong, or lies. can't a person follow their own religion without condemning others?
personally, i think there are positive things in all religions, as well as negative, but i see this One True Religion concept as a definite negative.
why do some people need to constantly "prove" others are wrong? why not just concentrating on being the best muslim, christian, jew etc. that you can? - this should be pretty much a full time job in itself.
Reply

Joe98
10-12-2006, 01:44 AM
Where Muslims believe this:

format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus …is a messenger from God.

He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people.

Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God.

I say that belief is fair enough. It is consistent with other Muslims beliefs





Where Muslims believe this:

format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
……that Jesus …never died on the cross….…
That is a completely silly belief. It sounds like it was invented by Muslims for their own purpose.

If, instead, Muslims said: “Jesus died on the cross but we don’t believe the next part” This would make Islam believable.

Instead, this one point makes Islam look silly and therefore everything about Islam must be false.
Reply

snakelegs
10-12-2006, 01:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98

If, instead, Muslims said: “Jesus died on the cross but we don’t believe the next part” This would make Islam believable.

Instead, this one point makes Islam look silly and therefore everything about Islam must be false.
silly to you maybe, but not silly to the millions of people who follow this religion.
i have no beliefs about jesus, but i don't think either christians or muslims are "silly" for the way they regard him, even if i don't understand it.
i see no point in calling others' beliefs "silly".
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-12-2006, 02:31 AM
So much for us "Muslims" attacking the faith of a Christian. Lets not be picky guys! No one here is exactly innocent!
Reply

islamicfajr
10-12-2006, 04:13 AM
hello..therebbe..

format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
I believe Monotheism is correct, but the teachings and beliefs of some religions are wrong. To clarify.
.......that is islam..one nation...pray & prayer to one God (Allah)..

and followed the last prophet of God....

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things). (49:13)


And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood. And I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other). (23:52)

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood....(49:10)..

And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; ....(3:103)

peace,

islamicfajr
Reply

islamicfajr
10-12-2006, 04:45 AM
hello...Keltoi....

format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't view Judaism or Islam as "wrong", as long as the ultimate goal is peace, understanding, and the worship of the One God. Yes, we differ in many things, but to me the most important aspect of all of this is our belief in God.
...

u but ur hand in the right start...

Read ... and think deeply before you answer..

It is religion of Islam.

It is the religion that Mohammad-peace upon him- the last prophet,
had been sent by Allah..

http://www.islamicboard.com/515605-post15.html

Who is the Awaited Prophet in the Bible?


Prophet Muhammad in the Bible......

Muhummed The Natural Successor To Christ

Concerning the Authenticity of the Bible

finally.... Let the Bible Speak


It is the religion that the right Bible- which is not distorted-has preached.
Just have a look at The Bible of (Bernaba).
Don't be emstional.
Be rational and judge..
Just look..listen...compare..and then judge and say your word..

"50,000 Errors In The Bible"...

Is The Bible God's Word?

The True Message of Jesus Christ

The "God" That Never Was


peace'

islamicfajr
Reply

snakelegs
10-12-2006, 07:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
repeatedly talking about one's faith despite people not being interested, or aggressively trying to undermine other people's faith - is just counterproductive, will only lead to division and tension between faiths, and will never ever lead people to the religion in question!

Your approach here may make for lengthy threads and many replies, but if your intention is truly to show people true Islam, you are going the wrong way about it!
It is the quiet and peaceful members in this forum who gain my respect and prick my interest in thei religion - they are the ones more likely to turn people towards Islam than people like you ever will!
well said, glo! i agree completely.
Reply

north_malaysian
10-12-2006, 08:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
actually, i am getting tired of all the "my religion is better than yours" and the "what's wrong with your religion" threads.
Most of the time I feel the same too....

Everyone knows that for Muslims .... Islam is superior than other religions...

Everyone knows that for non-Muslims ... their respective religion is superior than Islam...

We just need a dialogue or Q&A about whatever religious topics.
Reply

Eric H
10-12-2006, 08:38 PM
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

You have some remarkable qualities, you need a job as a peacemaker, or in an interfaith organisation or maybe the UN.:)

May God continue to bless you

Eric
Reply

*noor
10-12-2006, 09:03 PM
Ultimately, there is only one religion that is correct. This is because religion is what God sent down to us so that we may live by it. Why would God send down more than one correct religion??

Just think about it. There is only one religion and no other. What you believe is up to you. It is our jobs as Muslims to invite others to the right path. You can either choose to believe it or not. There is no compulsion in Islam.

The fact that Christians believe the Jesus is God or the son of God or anything other than a human being is just due to the fact that the bible has been changed so many times. It has been changed so many times that there are so many contradictions in it, or should I say them. It is obvious that the Bible is not based on truth. Just look at how many different Bibles there are. I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.

Just think about it?

and i'd just like to say that if you don't like this section on the forum because it goes against your beliefs somehow, no one is forcing you to come to this section and read these kinds of threads.
maybe the reason some people keep coming to these threads is because they are not sure about what they believe??
just a thought

If there are so many versions of the so called Bible, what does that mean? If Christians are not sure whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or his son, what does that mean??
Reply

duskiness
10-12-2006, 09:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
It has been changed so many times how many?
when? by who? what was changed?
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
Just look at how many different Bibles there are. I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.
how many? what the differneces are? or maybe - that's just a hint - you are talking about TRANSLATION of Bible??? Because we have 3 tranlaslations of Quran in polish, but ONE Quran. The same with Bible - many translations, ONE Bible
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
If there are so many versions of the so called Bible, what does that mean?
it means you are speaking about TRANSLATION
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
If Christians are not sure whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or his son, what does that mean??
not sure???? or maybe you don't know basic beliefs of christians?
n.
Reply

*noor
10-12-2006, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
when? by who? what was changed?
how many? what the differneces are? or maybe - that's just a hint - you are talking about TRANSLATION of Bible??? Because we have 3 tranlaslations of Quran in polish, but ONE Quran. The same with Bible - many translations, ONE Bible
it means you are speaking about TRANSLATION
not sure???? or maybe you don't know basic beliefs of christians?
n.
here's a site that might help you understand:

http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/c.../versions.html

and no I wasn't referring to simple translations....i was referring to eliminating, adding and changing parts.
Reply

*noor
10-12-2006, 09:48 PM
and here's one from another site

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html
Reply

duskiness
10-12-2006, 10:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
here's a site that might help you understand:
http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/c.../versions.html
and no I wasn't referring to simple translations....i was referring to eliminating, adding and changing parts.
i' ve asked you because Muslim seem to think, that every christian has his/hers own Bible, that our church have deliberetly added or omitted truthes. It seems many like to repeat chorus: "many variation and changes".
But truth is that, if you would really go to bookshop ,i'm 99% sure you wouldntt find any.
and that's a christian pov on Bible:
http://www.katapi.org.uk/BibleMSS/II.htm
or ://www.rinconhosting.net/users/bibletest/articles/BibleAccuracy.htm

and reps for not quoting answering-christians :giggling:
your link is quite a good side. oh..and btw: i knew most of it, i had to learn this :)
so when used word "variation" you were speaking about differences between thos oldest witnesses of Bible text?
Today we try to base translations on the oldest codexes (01 & 03). And we use effects of work of critics. Our Bibles are probably as accuret as it can be for such a old text. And then any variations (that's the places where critics are not sure) in todays NT's text reach 1% of text valume.
from this side:
The important points to notice are:

(1) Many different versions of the Bible, none autographic, have existed since antiquity;
Quran aslo has no autigraphs. It quite strange to ask for 2000 years old autogaph...as far as variations goes we have 2400 manuscripts of Bible. Hand writen. so it's quite obivious that there are differnces (i fact that's kind of miracle that there are so few...). Thats were text critic comes.
Btw. no faith truth depends on parts of text that maith be found dubious...
(2) Some of the versions differ significantly from each other;
2 differ "significantly" in few percents of text...but how i said today we use text critic and older=more "sure" witnesses of text....so it would be hard to find variations in Bibles in bookshop

(3) It is virtually impossible to confirm which of several ancient variants is the most authentic (particularly true of the Old Testament);
as far as i know, that's not true about NT, about OT i know less...

(4) The oldest manuscripts generally exist only as fragments (often in very poor condition);
i thought that is obvious? The same is true for all books. Quran included

(5) Translation from the original tongues is difficult and no single translation can be considered truly authentic.
:uuh: once again- isn't that obvious?

format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.
not hard at all? have you try?
ahhh...i believe that was just a rethorical constraction aimed to present who silly those christinas are...
...but Noor (Light? :) ) you can safly go to bookshop and look for Bible. You want find "variations" or "changes". (there is only "deuterocanonical books" case...).
n.
Reply

- Qatada -
10-12-2006, 10:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
That is a completely silly belief. It sounds like it was invented by Muslims for their own purpose.

If, instead, Muslims said: “Jesus died on the cross but we don’t believe the next part” This would make Islam believable.

Instead, this one point makes Islam look silly and therefore everything about Islam must be false.

Believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) was elevated to Allaah is nothing unusual. Believing that he is the messenger of Allaah is also easy to understand.


The concept that i find hard to believe is that if Jesus (peace be upon him) was really God, then why was he crucified by a jewish slave? Isn't that blasphemy? I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.

Yet you say that islam is strange for believing that the Creator elevated one of His slave's to the heaven's.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.
Reply

duskiness
10-12-2006, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The concept that i find hard to believe is that if Jesus (peace be upon him) was really God, then why was he crucified by a jewish slave? Isn't that blasphemy? I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.
:giggling: that's the part of my faith i love most. God not only "high above" but aslo so low :)
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-12-2006, 11:51 PM
God is above his creation. He doesn't need to come down in the form of a human, which would make Him lose His uniqueness, to prove His existence. Thats what I love about mine! ;D
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 12:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.
Now there's something worth thinking about!
Reply

snakelegs
10-13-2006, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

You have some remarkable qualities, you need a job as a peacemaker, or in an interfaith organisation or maybe the UN.:)

May God continue to bless you

Eric
what a nice compliment - thank you!
actually, it is easy for me because i am pretty neutral about religions, so i don't get as emotional as the believers.
Reply

snakelegs
10-13-2006, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
and i'd just like to say that if you don't like this section on the forum because it goes against your beliefs somehow, no one is forcing you to come to this section and read these kinds of threads.
maybe the reason some people keep coming to these threads is because they are not sure about what they believe??
just a thought
believe it or not, i come to this section because since i've joined this forum i have become interested in comparitive religion. and i've learned a lot here.
i just get tired of threads that only exist due to the "my religion is better than yours, which is wrong wrong wrong" syndrome.
i don't agree with either christianity or islam (or any others, for that matter) - tho i like many things from each, but i think everyone has a right to expect respect for their religion - this does not mean agreement.
asking questions because you really want to learn about some one else's religion is fine, but i wish some people would ask themselves first "do i really want to know the answer or do i just want to make my point by taking a jab at their religon?"
i realise people have very strong feelings about their religions and i think it would be wise to keep this in mind - that others feel as strongly about their religions as you do about yours.
personally, i enjoy learning what different religions have in common with each other, as well as their differences.
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 12:27 AM
Peace Duskiness :)

Its now a step up that you realized cannot be bible is not 100% accurate and that even Christian sites admit to it but there are still some things that I want to explain to you.

first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.

here you might want to look at this site...please give it a chance :)

and by the way, this site is by a former Christian Chaplain

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch1.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch3.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch4.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch5.html

let me know what you think after reading the content on the links :)
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 12:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
believe it or not, i come to this section because since i've joined this forum i have become interested in comparitive religion. and i've learned a lot here.
thats great :)

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
personally, i enjoy learning what different religions have in common with each other, as well as their differences.
ok its a good thing that you don't get offended because I don't think most people on here have the intention of offending others.
Reply

islamicfajr
10-13-2006, 12:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
Peace Duskiness :)

Its now a step up that you realized cannot be bible is not 100% accurate and that even Christian sites admit to it but there are still some things that I want to explain to you.

first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.

here you might want to look at this site...please give it a chance :)

and by the way, this site is by a former Christian Chaplain

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch1.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch3.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch4.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch5.html

let me know what you think after reading the content on the links :)
Nice...post...but.if they read...

i hope so
gazakum Allah khyran...

<wasalam alaykum>
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-13-2006, 03:13 AM
Someone want to explain this one please =) If u dont mind...thanx
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
23:19
Reply

islamicfajr
10-13-2006, 05:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
"Hear O' Israel, the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is one!

Shema Yisrael Hashem Eloyhenu, Hashem Echad!

The most important prayer of the Jewish people. It is followed by chanting of three paragraphs of the most important commandements we are given. Shema Yisrael comprises of Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21, and Numbers 15:37-41.


The God of the Jews is a National God, notice in your quote how it says:



שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

The God of the Muslims is a universial God:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

All praise is due to ALLAH alone, Lord of all the worlds. ..(1:2)

peace,

islamicfajr
Reply

islamicfajr
10-13-2006, 06:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Someone want to explain this one please =) If u dont mind...thanx
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
23:19
....if jesus was God...ru Accept worship man like u...

...jesus is just a prophet All creat him 4m dust like All us....


Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.(3:5)

[116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. (5:116-116)

.............
[170] O mankind! the Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him; it is best for you. But if ye rejected Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

[171] O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
[172] Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4:170-172)

................
[17] In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all, everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

[18] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)."

[19] O People of the Book! now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) Our Messengers, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)"; but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.

(5:17-19)
.................
[72] They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

[73] They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

[74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[75] Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

[76] Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah, He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."


[77] Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way.

[78] Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of Dawud and of 'Isa, the son of Maryam, because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses.

[80] Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

[81] If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers

(5:72-81)
..................
[62] This is the true account; there is no god except Allah; and Allah, He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
.................

[47] She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but saith to it, `Be', and it is! (3:47)


..................

[59] The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. (3:59)

.................

[59] He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel. (43:59)

...............

........Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."(13:16)

...............
peace ,

islamicfajr
Reply

duskiness
10-13-2006, 09:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.
Salam Noor.
did i understand correctly: you say you have seen variations in Bible because you have seen Old Testament, then New and then King's Jemes Bible?????

Bible is divided into Old and New Testament.
Bible in fact is not one book but BOOKS.
Old Testament is the same for both Jew and us
New Testament (27 books) is "Christian-only" part of Bible. Here you find stories about Jesus, disciples, letters, revelation
Sometimes one Testament is sold as separate book (looking on my own book shelf- i have one edition of Bible in 1 volume and the other edition containing only New Testament with Psalms). But Noor, this doesn't make it a variation!
King Jame's Bible is one of many translations of Bible into english.

So your statment for christians sound similarly to: "I have seen variation in Quran, among them: sura 1, sura 2 and Pickthall's Quran"
It's wrong isn't it? For THE SAME REASONS wrong is also your statement.
You haven't seen variations in Bible.

As for your link - I don't promise but you have asked, so i'll try to read them a bring my comments.
take care
n.
Reply

duskiness
10-13-2006, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
....if jesus was God...ru Accept worship man like u...
i'm sometimes picky (nobody's perfect :giggling: )
but from logical point of view it should go:
....if jesus was God... -----> ru Accept worship God
and on the other hand
....if jesus was man ------> ru Accept worship man like u....
n.
Reply

ManchesterFolk
10-13-2006, 09:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
The God of the Jews is a National God, notice in your quote how it says:



שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

The God of the Muslims is a universial God:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

All praise is due to ALLAH alone, Lord of all the worlds. ..(1:2)
What do you mean a National God? The God of the Jews proclaims many times throught the Torah that he is a God of all mankind. But don't let fact get in your way. You never do.


"Hear O' Israel" is the Jews calling out to there fellow people proclaiming God's oneness.
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
What do you mean a National God?
not natioinal, universal....meaning God of the whole universe.
Reply

wilberhum
10-13-2006, 09:35 PM
The God of the Jews is a National God,
The God of the Muslims is a universial God:
Tipical my god is better than your god.
Really sad.
Reply

- Qatada -
10-13-2006, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Tipical my god is better than your god.
Really sad.

Our God is the same, the fact that we mainly differ on is whether He should be worshipped Alone or not. Worship the Creator, not the creation.



Peace.
Reply

duskiness
10-13-2006, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Our God is the same, the fact that we mainly differ on is whether He should be worshipped Alone or not. Worship the Creator, not the creation.
Jews are here in perfect agreement with you. So what was point in this "national God" post?
n.
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
King Jame's Bible is one of many translations of Bible into english.
Peace duskiness

I really reccomend that you read this. It goes into the history of the King James bible and explains how it came about.

Bible - A Closer Look!
by Yusuf Estes - Former Christian - Muslim Chaplain

CHAPTER 1
"Is 'King James' Version the Actual Bible?"

Note: The word "Bible" comes from the Koine Greek word "biblios" and it simply means the same as the word "book" in English. Nowhere in the Bible do we find the word "Bible." However, it is interesting to note the word "kitab" (Bible in Arabic) appears many times in the Quran, referring to the Bible and the People of the Book (Jews and Christians).

Let me begin by saying that the King James "version" of the Bible is in English. There was no English language until the year 1066 AD when the Normans invaded the Saxxons. Therefore the English Bible cannot be anything like what any of the prophets spoke or understood, as it did not exist in their times.

Next, my grandfather, who was a devout and wonderful Christian man gave a gift of the Holy Bible to my sisters and I almost fifty years ago. It was an authorized version of the Bible, being The Revised Standard Version of the Bible which was a revised version of the American Standard Version, published in 1901, which was a version of the King James Version, published in 1611, which was revised and corrected for the first time in 1612, etc. I was very much impressed with the easier to read text and clarification of some of the wording which was presented in this version and began to read the Bible on a daily basis for hours at a time. The removal of the Elizabethton English terms, phrases and expressions made the Bible a more accessible and understandable and intimate Book for me. But that is not all the RSV did for me and many others, as well.

My love and respect for the Word of God increased the more that I spent time reading and understanding the message. The Bible became my most prized and respected book in my life. I often turned to it throughout the rest of my life in times of joy, happiness, sadness, troubles and pain. It was my compass, my road map, my weather vane and my friend. However, there were still some problems with this IMPROVED VERSION of the Holy Bible. It began to disturb and concern me to the extent that I made consultation with my father, who was also an ordained minister and student of the Bible since childhood. Based on his research and background in the origin and sources for modern day Christianity, I began to go deeper into the problems which had plagued my thinking and faith since childhood.

I prayed to Almighty God and then found the answers to some of the problems were spelled out very clearly in the very beginning of the exact same book. I have that book lying in front of me on my desk as I write this article and would like to quote to you from some of the PREFACE page iii and iv:

"The King James Version has with good reason been termed 'the noblest monument of English prose.' Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration of 'its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of express... the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.' It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt."

"Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that thesedefects are so many and so serious as to call for a revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bibles was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901."

"Because of the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications in the two decades between 1881 and 1901, which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version in the supposed interest of the American public, the American Standard Version was copyrighted, to protect the text from unauthorized changes. In 1928 this copyright was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education, and thus passed into the ownership of the churches of the United States and Canada which were associated in this Council through their boards of education and publication."

".... decision was reached that there is need for a thorough revision of the version of 1901..""In 1937 the revision was authorized by vote of the Council."

"Thirty-two scholars have served as members of the Committee charged with making the revision, and they have secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations."

"Each section has submitted its work to the scrutiny of the members of the charter of the Committee requires that all changes be agreed upon by a two-thirds vote of the total membership of the Committee."

"The problem of establishing the correct Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Old testament is very different from the corresponding problem in the New Testament."

"For the New Testament we have a large number of Greek manuscripts, preserving many variant forms of the text. Some of them were made only two or three centuries later than the original composition of the books."

"For the Old Testament only late manuscripts survive, all (with the exception of the Dead Sea Texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk and some fragments of other books) based on a standardized form of the text established many centuries after the books were written."

"The present revision is based on the consonantal Hebrew and Aramaic text as fixed early in the Christian era and revised by Jewish scholars (the 'Masoretes') of the sixth to ninth centuries. The vowel signs, which were added by the Masoretes, are accepted also in the main, but where a more probable and convincing reading can be obtained by assuming different vowels, this has been done."

"... vowel points are less ancient and [less] reliable than the consonants."

"Departures from the consonantal text of the best manuscripts have been made only where it seems clear that errors in copying had been made before the text was standardized."

"Most of the corrections adopted are based on the ancient versions [translations into Greek Aramaic, Syriac, and Latin], which were made before the time of the Masoretic revision and therefore reflect earlier forms of the text."

"Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text."

"Many difficulties and obscurities, of course, remain."

"Where the choice between two meanings is particularly difficult or doubtful, we have given an alternative rendering in a footnote."

"If in the judgment of the Committee the meaning of a passage is quite uncertain or obscure, either because of corruption in the text or because of the inadequacy of our present knowledge of the language, that fact is indicated by a note."

"It should not be assumed, however, that the Committee was entirely sure or unanimous concerning every rendering not so indicated."

"To record all minority views was obviously out of the question."

"The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying."

"It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts."

"The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and [yet] he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus."

"We now possess many more ancient manuscripts of the new Testament, and are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. The evidence for the text of the books of the New Testament is better that for any other ancient book, both in the number of extant manuscripts and in the nearness of the date of some of these manuscripts to the date when the book was originally written."

The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, "Yet, the King James Version has grave defects.

Therefore, we must conclude the "King James Version" is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch1.html

p.s. Yusuf Estes travels worldwide and has conventions and explains the differences between Islam and Christianity. If he's ever in your area, you might want to consider attending one of his conventions. I've been to one about a year ago and the man really knows what he's talking about.

just think about it :)
and thank you for reading this long post
Reply

- Qatada -
10-13-2006, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
Jews are here in perfect agreement with you. So what was point in this "national God" post?
n.

We believe that Prophet Moses came for his own nation, the children of Israeel - to free them from the oppression of pharoah, and to take them to the promised land. Jesus (peace be upon him) was also a messenger of Allaah, who came to bring back the children of Israeel to the right path, after they had gone astray once again.


Finally, Muhammad (peace be upon him) - an unlettered prophet came to the ignorant arab's, who had been astray for a long time. His message would be for all of mankind, and he would be the final messenger - calling to the Creator, Allaah Almighty.



If we all differ on anything, we will all be brought back to our Creator to decide who was right and who was wrong. But we all know this, all the messenger's came to call to the worship of the One true Creator - Allaah, alone.




Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.
Reply

duskiness
10-13-2006, 10:09 PM
Hi Noor - "Light" :)
btw. that's funny- our both nicks deal with light (my rather with it's lack but still...)
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
"We now possess many more ancient manuscripts of the new Testament, and are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. The evidence for the text of the books of the New Testament is better that for any other ancient book, both in the number of extant manuscripts and in the nearness of the date of some of these manuscripts to the date when the book was originally written."
format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, "Yet, the King James Version has grave defects.
because it an old TRANSLATION based on late taxt witnesses

format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
Therefore, we must conclude the "King James Version" is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.
Noor, i DON'T believe in books being send.

format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
p.s. Yusuf Estes travels worldwide and has conventions and explains the differences between Islam and Christianity. If he's ever in your area, you might want to consider attending one of his conventions. I've been to one about a year ago and the man really knows what he's talking about.
i doubt he would be interested in visiting Poland...:giggling:

format_quote Originally Posted by *noor
and thank you for reading this long post
np. thank for posting :D
but it seems that in the end we have to agree to disagree. Looking at one picture, we see 2 different things :)
Reply

*noor
10-13-2006, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
Hi Noor - "Light" :)
btw. that's funny- our both nicks deal with light (my rather with it's lack but still...)
hehe... you're right :giggling:

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
Noor, i DON'T believe in books being send.
what do you mean?

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness
i doubt he would be interested in visiting Poland...:giggling:
lol :)
you'd be surprised at how many places this man has visited to educate people about Islam

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

np. thank for posting :D
but it seems that in the end we have to agree to disagree. Looking at one picture, we see 2 different things :)
you're welcome

yes I guess we don't see the same thing

if you have any questions or ever need anything, feel free to ask either by posting or you can pm me if you want :)

anyways its almost iftaar time so i have to go right now

take care duskiness

peace :)
Reply

Free
11-12-2006, 05:00 AM
Here are some suggestions:
format_quote Originally Posted by islamicfajr
[COLOR="Indigo"]hello here

If Jesus was GOD


If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD. JESUS WAS SIMPLY QUOTING OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE. 'ONE' HERE DOES NOT IMPLY THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD. RATHER, IT EXPRESSES THAT THERE IS NO OTHER god AND WE UNDERSTAND JESUS' PURPOSE FOR QUOTING THIS SCRIPTURE TO MEAN WE ARE NOT TO HAVE IDOLS.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD. IN MAKING THIS COMMENT, THE ATTENTION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE FACT THAT JESUS WAS TESTIFYING THAT THE WAY TO GOD HAS NOW BEEN OPENED TO ALL MEN. HIS GOD WAS NOW OUR GOD -- HIS ACCESSIBILITY TO THE FATHER IS ALSO OUR PRIVILEGE NOW AS WELL. YES, IN HIS HUMANITY, HE ALSO CONFESSED GOD TO BE HIS GOD. BUT WE KNOW HE LAID DOWN HIS DIETY ONLY TO PICK IT UP AGAIN. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills? HE MEANT GOD IS WORKING IN HIM -- IT'S THE FATHER DOING HIS WORK THROUGH THE SON. JESUS COULD DO WHATEVER HE WANTED BUT HE CHOSE TO BE A VESSEL FOR THE FATHER'S WILL TO BE PERFORMED THROUGH HIM. HE IS OUR EXAMPLE OF A LAID DOWN LIFE.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"? WE KNOW AGAIN THAT JESUS WAS EQUALLY GOD AND MAN -- MANY TIMES HE SPOKE FROM HIS DIETY, MANY TIMES HE SPOKE FROM HIS HUMANITY. WHEN HE MAKES A COMMENT THAT SOUNDS LIKE HE IS MERELY A MAN LIKE US, HE IS SPEAKING TO DEMONSTRATE HIS SUBMISSION AND OBEDIENCE. HE SAID THE FATHER IS GREATER BECAUSE HE WAS GOING BACK TO THE FATHER TO RECEIVE THE FULLNESS OF HIS DIETY ONCE AGAIN -- HENCE, "YOU SHOULD BE GLAD THAT I RETURN TO MY FATHER." THE FATHER IS NOT LITERALLY GREATER THAN JESUS ("I LAY MY LIFE DOWN. I HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO LAY IT DOWN AND TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN" -- HE WILLINGLY SUBMITTED). THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST'S POWER WAS EFFECTUALIZED IN HIS RETURN TO THE THRONE.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"? JESUS WAS IN ESSENCE SAYING "WHY DO THEY CALL ME GOOD? THEY KNOW THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT GOD ALONE YET THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE ME AS GOD. AND YET, THEY SEE THE GOOD I DO. YET THEY REFUSE TO BELIEVE."

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of
crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam WE KNOW THAT JESUS WILLINGLY LAID DOWN HIS LIFE. AT THE SAME TIME, HE WAS TROUBLED BY THE SUFFERING HE WAS ABOUT TO ENDURE. DURING THOSE LAST HOURS BEFORE THE CRUCIFIXION, IT WAS MANDATORY THAT JESUS EMBRACE HIS HUMANITY TO IT'S FULLEST. SCRIPTURE SAYS HE SUFFERED SO THAT HE COULD HELP US IN OUR SUFFERING AS ONE WHO CAN RELATE BECAUSE OF HIS OWN SUFFERING. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT HE FREELY LAY DOWN HIS DIETY AT THIS POINT WHICH INVOLVED FULLY AND COMPLETELY EXPERIENCING THE AGONY OF CALVARY.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth? AT THIS POINT IN HIS MINISTRY, 3 YEARS AFTER PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, JESUS KNEW HE HAD SAID ALL HE COULD SAY AND STILL THEY REFUSED TO BELIEVE. THERE WAS NOTHING MORE HE COULD SAY THAT HE DIDN'T ALREADY SAY MANY TIMES PREVIOUSLY. DON'T DISREGARD EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAID TO THIS POINT.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows? JESUS CHOSE TO NOT KNOW WHILE WEARING HUMANITY. BY THE TIME HE IS RESURRECTED (ACTS 1:7) JESUS ADDRESSED THE ISSUE AGAIN BUT THIS TIME SAYS "IT IS NOT FOR you TO KNOW THE TIME." HERE HE DOES KNOW BECAUSE HIS HUMANITY IS GONE AND THE FULLNESS OF HIS DIETY HAS BEEN RESTORED TO HIM.If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus? IT STATES HE WILL HAVE THE FULLNESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT: WISDOM, UNDERSTANDING, COUNSEL, POWER, KNOWLEDGE AND THE FEAR OF THE LORD. HERE THE FEAR OF THE LORD DOES NOT MEAN "AFRAID" BUT RATHER KNOWING THE GREATNESS OF GOD AND SUBMITTING TO HIS WILL.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true? BECAUSE THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW REQUIRED THE TESTIMONY OF 2 OR 3 WITNESSES. HE KNEW THEY WOULD NOT ACCEPT HIS TESTIMONY ALONE AND HE WAS SUGGESTING THAT HE IS NOT TESTIFYING ALONE BUT THE FATHER TESTIFIES WITH HIM. THEREFORE THE LAW OF 2 OR 3 IS FULFILLED TO VALIDATE HIS TESTIMONY.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative? BECAUSE HE WAS EXPLAINING THAT HE DOES ONLY WHAT THE FATHER DOES. HE DOES NOT DO WHAT THE MAN-JESUS WILLS BUT WHAT THE FATHER WILLS SO THE GOD-JESUS DOES -- PERFECT HARMONY BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE SON.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?JESUS WAS SPEAKING TO A JEWISH AUDIENCE AND THEREFORE SPEAKING OF THEIR GOD. HE SPOKE IN A WAY THAT THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT YET ACCEPTED THAT HE WAS ALSO GOD. "YOU STUDY THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK BY THEM YOU POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. THEY TESTIFY ABOUT ME YET YOU REFUSE TO COME TO ME." (V39-40)

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice? I THINK YOU MEAN V 27 HERE? AGAIN HE IS SPEAKING TO THE JEWS AND JESUS TAUGHT THAT NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM. THEREFORE, IT WOULD STAND TO REASON THAT THEY, ALTHOUGH THEY BELIEVED THEY WERE RELIGIOUS AND GOD-FEARING PEOPLE, HAVE NEVER REALLY HEARD FROM GOD NOR DO THEY KNOW HIM.
If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16? AGAIN HUMANITY/DIETY MIX -- FULLY GOD, FULLY MAN.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD? SAME AS ABOVE.

The "God" Title:
How come Christians take the "God" (theos in Greek) title literally with Jesus in Isiah 9:6 and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called Gods ? RUNNING SHORT ON TIME, HAVE TO COME BACK TO THIS ONE.The Prophets who were called "God" in the Bible are as follows:
Prophet Moses in Exodus 7:1
The Devil in Corinthians 4:4 (the word for God in this verse is theos in Greek, the same used for Jesus that was translated as "God")
Multiple Prophets in Psalms 82:6
King David in Psalm 45:3
Note: The only unique title given to GOD in the Bible that was not given to others at all are Jehova, GOD, and GOD LORD. "God", "Most Mighty" and "Almighty One" are titles that were given to Jesus, other Prophets and to Satan himself in the Bible.

Very important note: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and Hebrew the father of the house can be called the God of the house? Jesus was the God (father or leader) of his people and their father according to Isiah 9:6. Jesus being the leader and the king, it is normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isiah 9:6), and because he is their father he automatically becomes their God. My father is my God in Arabic and Hebrew.

The "Son" Title:
How come Christians take the "God's Son" title literally with Jesus and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called the Sons of God?
In John 3:16 Jesus was called God's only Begotten Son.
In Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my firstborn." Isreal was called God's First Son.
In Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim is God's First Son and First Born.In Psalm 2:7 "... Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." David was called God's Begotten Son.

Were Jesus's Miracle's Unique?
If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then what about the others who performed the same miracles? NONE OF THE PROPHETS WERE RAISED FROM THE DEAD. HE DID MIRACLES TO TESTIFY THAT HE WAS GOD'S MESSENGER, HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD TO TESTIFY THAT HE WAS EQUAL TO GOD.
Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).

[Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2 Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2 Kings 6:17,20).

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings 4:34). Even Elisha's dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings 13:21).
Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9)"

YIKES, YOU REALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THIS REFERENCE ALTOGETHER. HE WAS SAYING TO THE UNBELIEVING JEWS -- YOU LOOK GOOD AND YOU SOUND GOOD BUT YOU DON'T WORSHIP ME, YOUR GOD. YOU FOLLOW THE WAYS OF MAN RATHER THAN MY WAYS AND YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW ME AT ALL. JESUS CAME TO BREAK THE BONDAGE OF RELIGION. HE HATES RELIGION. WHAT HE COMMANDS IS THAT WE LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS, NOT FOLLOW RULES MADE BY MEN. WHEN WE FOLLOW THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF OUR RELIGION, OUR WORKS ARE USELESS. STUDY CATHOLICISM TO SEE THIS IN ACTION.

In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him, which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' " I BELIEVE THIS IS SATAN'S GREATEST DESIRE -- TO TURN ALL AWAY FROM THE WAY -- JESUS CHRIST. HE HAS SUCCESSFULLY CONVINCED BILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT JESUS WAS MERELY A PROPHET. JESUS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN JUST A PROPHET BECAUSE IF HE WERE NOT GOD, HE WOULD BE A LIAR. SO DON'T PBUH A FALSE PROPHET.
Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, ..."

BE CAREFUL. WHEN YOU HEAR AND BELIEVE WHAT CONTRADICTS THE WHAT JESUS TAUGHT, YOU MAY BE LISTENING TO A FALSE PROPHET. BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BOTH BE TRUE. EITHER YOUR BOOKS IS WRONG, OR JESUS WAS A LIAR.

The Point that I am trying to prove:

Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger from God. IMPOSSIBLE. AS STATED ABOVE, JESUS CLAIMED TO BE GOD. THAT WOULD MAKE HIM A LIAR. CHECK OUT THESE BIBLE VERSES TO READ WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIMSELF:

"WHEN HE LOOKS AT ME, HE SEES THE ONE WHO SENT ME" JOHN 12:45

"I DID NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE IT." JOHN 12:47

"ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER." JOHN 14:9

"BELIEVE IN ME WHEN I SAY THAT I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME." JOHN 14:11

"THOUGH YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, I KNOW HIM (THE FATHER). IF I SAID I DID NOT, I WOULD BE A LIAR LIKE YOU. ABRAHAM REJOICED AT THE THOUGHT OF SEEING MY DAY. HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM." JOHN 8:54-59 -- THEY WANTED TO STONE HIM. WHY? BECAUSE IN CALLING HIMSELF "I AM", HE WAS EQUATING HIMSELF TO GOD.


He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross .

<wasalam alaykum>
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