100s killed in Darfur in August

[nishom]

“Hundreds of Darfur civilians killed in August”
Islamonline.com
Acessed on 13/10/2006 at 10:50.


Several hundred Darfur civilians have been killed in violent attacks in August, far more than previously estimated, a recent UN report said, according to Reuters news agency.

The UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) Louise Arbour said the attacks have been carried out by up to 1000 militiamen with the “knowledge and material support” of the Sudanese government.

"The attacks ... were massive in scale, involving a large number of villages, and were carried out over only a few days. Government knowledge, if not complicity, in the attacks is almost certain," stated the OHCR report.

The OHCR said the attacks took place in 48 villages in the Buram area of South Darfur. It also said that many of the 10,000 civilians targeted in the attacks, which started on August 28 and lasted into September, were forced to escape their homes.

The agency had previously thought that 38 people had died in the attacks. But it later revised the death toll in its latest report, which was conducted in cooperation with United Nations Assistance Mission in Sudan and based on interviews with some of the survivors of the attacks.

The attacks were carried out by militiamen wearing government-style uniforms, the report said, adding that there was no evidence of any rebel activity in the area.

"The large-scale assaults resulted in chaotic displacement, widespread separation of families and scores of missing children," the report said. "Most of the villages attacked were under government control," it added.

Arbour urged the Sudanese government to launch an independent investigation into the “recent militia attacks that may have left hundreds of civilians dead in South Darfur”, and called for the prosecution of all those responsible.

Sudan disputes report

Sudan's Justice Minister Mohamed Ali al-Mardi disputed the report’s findings, saying that Arbour's office wasn’t using reliable sources, adding that the government doesn’t support the militias in Darfur.

"The sources ... are not reliable and they have become very ready to accept whatever is said to them," al-Mardi said. "They declare what they have heard and after some time it turns out to be not true," he said.

The Sudanese government, which accuses the rebels for starting the Darfur conflict, has always denied backing the Janjaweed militias, accused of committing the atrocities in the western Sudanese region.

The rebels, on the other hand, say that they are defending the "African" farmers against the government and the Janjaweed militia.

Khartoum is opposed to plans to deploy UN peacekeepers in Darfur, saying that such a move would infringe on its sovereignty.

Last week, the Sudanese government suggested that the UN could provide training and logistics support to the 7,000 African forces deployed in the region.

The United Nations, which has said that Darfur is suffering "the greatest humanitarian disaster in the world", estimates that about 180,000 people have lost their lives since the conflict began in 2003.

A further two million people have been forced to escape their homes.

[Joe98]

Iran should send troops there to stop the killing of innocent Muslims

[nishom]

The janjaweed are Arabs, right?
Are they Muslims?

[Trumble]

The janjaweed are Arabs, right?
Are they Muslims?

Yes, and yes.

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[Fishman]

Are they Muslims?

:sl:
Yes, they are Muslims and so are the people they are killing.
:w:

[ManchesterFolk]

The janjaweed are Arabs, right?
Are they Muslims?

Yes. It is basically Arab Muslims killing blacks who many are muslims and some arent' because they are black and they feel as Arabs they are superior.

I'm black, and I want to vomit everytime I hear about darfur.

[Keltoi]

I simply can't understand why more isn't being done in Darfur by the international community. I hate to say this, but it seems as if genocidal situations that involve Africans aren't seen as being important enough to warrant any sort of action by the U.N. I won't call it racism, but perhaps a bias against the African continent as being a "lost cause".

[wilberhum]

I simply can't understand why more isn't being done in Darfur by the international community.

I think there are two major reasons. The local government doesn't want it and some Muslims have called on all Muslims to kill any UN member that enters. The UN can not solve all the world problems.

I hate to say this, but it seems as if genocidal situations that involve Africans aren't seen as being important enough to warrant any sort of action by the U.N. I won't call it racism, but perhaps a bias against the African continent as being a "lost cause".

There is so much corruption in Africa that is almost a lost cause.

[Fishman]

I think there are two major reasons. The local government doesn't want it and some Muslims have called on all Muslims to kill any UN member that enters. The UN can not solve all the world problems.

:sl:
1. The local goverment did not want the allies to intervene in WWII, but they did.

2. Hardly anybody listens to the crackpots who call Muslims to kill UN members anyway.
:w:

[Durrah]

Keltoi: Economics plays a big factor. Sudan has got alot of deals right now with China, namely in the oil industry and the U.S want a cut of the pie too. Hence much is not being done and alot of crocidile tears being shed. In order for action to take place, they would need a concencous of the U.N votes and China would most likely veto any action against Sudan.

Wilberhum: Yea theres alot of corruption in Africa, but the west has its fingers dipped in the corrurption as well. In many cases, its supporting the corruption thats going on as well as doing arms trades with leaders and rebel groups who they know will use those arms for greater evil. When the Hutsis in Rwanda were killing the Tutsis' who suppiled the weapons? France! West aint got any moral high horse to stand on, when many of those propped up diactors in africa have been in the past and present supported by the white house, the kremlin, british goverment etc..

[Woodrow]

One cause for the many conflicts in Africa is the lack of a central government and of a central language. There are from 2,000 to 3, seperate languages spoken, with up to 8,000 dialects. This in itself makes communication among the people difficult.

Source fo Language numbers: http://africanlanguages.com/

Add to that you have 53 seperate countries and countless seperate tribal governments. Many of these internal factors lead to continuous civil war and wars among neighboring countries.

Source for number of African Nations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_GDP_PPP

I have no idea as to how many different religions are practiced in Africa however it appears most are based upon various combinations of Islam, Christianity and Traditional tribal religions. Leading to a very large number of beliefs.

Sources: http://www.afrikaworld.net/afrel/

http://members.aol.com/porchfour/religion/african.htm

all of these things result in very little unity among the African people. Although there does appear to be considerable National Pride in each seperate country.

Until there is a unifying central system of either religion, government or ethnicity the greates threat to Africans will be fellow Africans. Yes, unscrupilous people are waiting in the sidelines always ready to gain from this disunity.

This disunity is just one of the problems that result in so many conflicts on the African continent. At the moment we see it in Darfur, Somalia and Ethiopia. But, it is something very common to Africa.

[Hijrah]

The situation in Darfur really depresses me, how can be so racist and oppressive?

[Rou]

The janjaweed are Arabs, right?
Are they Muslims?

There actions answer that for you brother...

[Rou]

Edit...too early for this...

May allah give the innocent peace and strength to endure the evil doers...

[justahumane]

One cause for the many conflicts in Africa is the lack of a central government and of a central language. There are from 2,000 to 3, seperate languages spoken, with up to 8,000 dialects. This in itself makes communication among the people difficult.

Source fo Language numbers: http://africanlanguages.com/

Add to that you have 53 seperate countries and countless seperate tribal governments. Many of these internal factors lead to continuous civil war and wars among neighboring countries.

Source for number of African Nations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_GDP_PPP

I have no idea as to how many different religions are practiced in Africa however it appears most are based upon various combinations of Islam, Christianity and Traditional tribal religions. Leading to a very large number of beliefs.

Sources: http://www.afrikaworld.net/afrel/

http://members.aol.com/porchfour/religion/african.htm

all of these things result in very little unity among the African people. Although there does appear to be considerable National Pride in each seperate country.

Until there is a unifying central system of either religion, government or ethnicity the greates threat to Africans will be fellow Africans. Yes, unscrupilous people are waiting in the sidelines always ready to gain from this disunity.

This disunity is just one of the problems that result in so many conflicts on the African continent. At the moment we see it in Darfur, Somalia and Ethiopia. But, it is something very common to Africa.

Hmmmmm, thats seems to be the reason why there is no emotional outbreak or sense of anger so far in the muslim world even after so many casualities of innocent muslims in this part of the world. Obviously Palestine, Iraq, etc. dont face so much complications, maybe thats why even a handfull of death of muslims in these regions brings the whole muslim Ummah in state of shock.

Poor black African muslims cant have share of Ummah's tears for them, have to be content with sympathies of Kuffar only. Sad indeed.

[AHMED_GUREY]

Sudan set to ink peace deal with eastern rebels

Mohammed Ali Saeed

Agence France Presse

KHARTOUM: Sudan and eastern rebels are to sign a peace agreement Saturday in the Eritrean capital, Asmara, ending years of fighting and offering a glimmer of hope in a country mired in the Darfur crisis. The landmark deal after negotiating parties from the Khartoum government and a coalition of rebel groups known as the Eastern Front cleared the final hurdle before inking a final agreement.

Chief government negotiator Mustafa Osman Ismail announced that the final protocol on power-sharing had been agreed upon, following earlier deals on the issues of wealth-sharing and security.

The deal would be the third peace pact signed by Khartoum with rebel groups in various parts of the largest nation in Africa in less than two years.

A deal between Khartoum and the main rebel faction in the war-torn western region of Darfur was signed in May this year but has failed to take hold.

A landmark peace was also signed between Khartoum and southern rebels in January 2005, bringing an end to more than two decades of fighting, the longest civil war in Africa.

The former rebel Sudan People's Liberation Movement is now part of a national unity government with President Omar al-Bashir's National Congress but relations have often been strained.

Bashir is due to meet Eritrean President Issaias Afeworki on the sidelines of Saturday's ceremony, the official Sudanese News Agency reported.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Abou al-Gheit and Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa are among the foreign officials expected to attend the signing, which comes amid mounting pressure on Khartoum over Darfur.

The latest round of negotiations between Khartoum and the Eastern Front resumed after a cease-fire agreement was reached on June 19.

The Eastern Front was created last year by the region's largest ethnic group, the Beja, and the Rashidiyya Arabs, and has similar aims to its better-known counterparts in Darfur: greater autonomy and control of resources. Its members have waged a low-level insurgency, and Sudan says the push to defuse the crisis is part of efforts to pacify the whole country by building on peace pacts reached recently with other rebels.

Sudan's vast eastern provinces include porous and volatile borders with Eritrea and Ethiopia and command access to the Red Sea, key to the country's economy.

source

[Rou]

Hmmmmm, thats seems to be the reason why there is no emotional outbreak or sense of anger so far in the muslim world even after so many casualities of innocent muslims in this part of the world. Obviously Palestine, Iraq, etc. dont face so much complications, maybe thats why even a handfull of death of muslims in these regions brings the whole muslim Ummah in state of shock.

Poor black African muslims cant have share of Ummah's tears for them, have to be content with sympathies of Kuffar only. Sad indeed.

???? Excuse me?? who saying muslims dont care for what happens in dafur!?? our zakat is going there aswell my friend!

there are mentions of there suffering as well in our prayers the diffrence is muslim seems to be harming muslim there thats an internal affair that we can look into when others come to our land and reck havoc of course theres going to be more of an out cry!

evil doers are evil doers wether so called muslims or otherwise!!

pls dont assume you know the internal affairs of the ummah unless you do research into it go to muslim chairty sites and you will see donations to dafur as there are to iraq and afgan and pakistan...

[justahumane]

???? Excuse me?? who saying muslims dont care for what happens in dafur!?? our zakat is going there aswell my friend!

there are mentions of there suffering as well in our prayers the diffrence is muslim seems to be harming muslim there thats an internal affair that we can look into when others come to our land and reck havoc of course theres going to be more of an out cry!

evil doers are evil doers wether so called muslims or otherwise!!

pls dont assume you know the internal affairs of the ummah unless you do research into it go to muslim chairty sites and you will see donations to dafur as there are to iraq and afgan and pakistan...

Sorry that I had to poke my nose in ur internal affair coz I still remember an image of a father clinging his baby in his lap, tears rolling down his cheeks, and saying to the reporter who was covering him " I would have commited suicide inspite of living in such hostile conditions had I not have this baby to look after" Malnutrition of the child was obviously evident. I hope zakat money never reached to him, he was starving brother, and no muslim presence was evident there, only kuffar looking after them.

Nothing personal brother, but I have to poke my nose in internal affair of the Ummah coz I know quiet well that muslims who wont fail to quote atrocities being done on helpless ppls of Iraq and Afganistan doesnt even know whats happenign in Darfur.

And I find this a perfect opportunity to show mirror to the ppls who forms the biggest bunch of hypocrites in this world. Like it or dislike it.

NOTHING IS BEING DONE BY MUSLIMS INSPITE OF GENOCIDE OF THEIR MUSLIM BRETHERNS, EXCEPT SAYING LET SOME MORE CASUALITIES HAPPEN THERE, AFTER ALL THEY ARE BEING KILLED BY OUR OWN PPLS, WHICH IS NO BIG DEAL. ALL IN THE FAMILY. AFTER ALL ZAKAT IS BEING SENT TO THEM, RESPONSIBILITY ENDS HERE. HOW SAD AND DEPRESSING BROTHER.

[Rou]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh great, such a great service is being done to the helpless ppls of Darfur and ignorant like me are crying foul play by muslims!!!! ALLLAH will take good care of me.

And sorry that I had to poke my nose in ur internal affair coz I still remember an image of a father clinging his baby in his lap, tears rolling down his cheeks, and saying to the reporter who was covering him " I would have commited suicide inspite of living in such hostile conditions had I not have this baby to look after" Malnutrition of the child was obviously evident. I hope zakat money never reached to him, he was starving brother, and no muslim presence was evident there, only kuffar looking after them.

Nothing personal brother, but I have to poke my nose in internal affair of the Ummah coz I know quiet well that muslims who wont fail to quote atrocities being done on helpless ppls of Iraq and Afganistan doesnt even know whats happenign in Darfur.

And I find this a perfect opportunity to show mirror to the ppls who forms the biggest bunch of hypocrites in this world. Like it or dislike it.

NOTHING IS BEING DONE BY MUSLIMS INSPITE OF GENOCIDE OF THEIR MUSLIM BRETHERNS, EXCEPT SAYING LET SOME MORE CASUALITIES HAPPEN THERE, AFTER ALL THEY ARE BEING KILLED BY OUR OWN PPLS, WHICH IS NO BIG DEAL. ALL IN THE FAMILY. AFTER ALL ZAKAT IS BEING SENT TO THEM, RESPONSIBILITY ENDS HERE. HOW SAD AND DEPRESSING BROTHER.

Im sorry im confused as i stated this is being tallked about by muslims awell as iraq and afgan and palastine and as in dafur indeed muslims still die in iraq and afgan and palastine!?

so what your trying to state makes no sense what your saying is we are all funding iraq and afgan etc but not dafur!? and the way you have worked this out is by saying that people in dafur are still dying!??

uhmmm well they are still dying in iraq and afgan and palastine aswell!?? so that logic makes no sense!?

second you state muslims are saying letthere be more casulties!?? where did you get that from!?? and how does that makes sense where will muslims get aasking for that!? that again is failed logic...

thirdly you state your hindu thats fine bro no issue there i have many hindu brothers but you say you want to know whats going on in the ummah cos you know many muslims who dont care about the dafur!??

brother i know mosques full who do and!??

as stated in all religons there will be those who are evil doers and the true ummah will weed them out inshallah..

muslims will never find any good in the suffering of any innocents logic behind saying we want more casulties as muslims in dafur makes no sense as you stated there muslim to...

i suggest looking deeper into islamic ways if you wish to comment on the ummah and what muslims want cos dafur is an insult to islam and humanity...

[Rou]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh great, such a great service is being done to the helpless ppls of Darfur and ignorant like me are crying foul play by muslims!!!! ALLLAH will take good care of me.

I hope zakat money never reached to him, he was starving brother, and no muslim presence was evident there, only kuffar looking after them.

hmm i sense sarcasem? theres no need for this brother...

second i suggest perhaps you get to know real muslims...

and there presence there...

Adeel Jafferi, Islamic Relief Press Officer, flew out to join IR staff in Darfur, western Sudan last week, and is writing a diary for Islamic-Relief.com about his experiences.

Saturday 7th August: I arrived in the Al Riyadh camp in El-Geneina, West Darfur's main town, which Islamic Relief have been managing since the crisis began. My first view was from the rise of a hill and the scene was overwhelming. The staff in Khartoum had given me an idea of what to expect, but nothing could have prepared me for what I saw. Stretched out for miles were tiny makeshift shelters.

there are those who would promote hate within islam brother there are those who would burn the fires of hate between brother and brother and spread lies to support such hate..all i can say is they will find there due brother if not in this life in the next...

:w:

[ManchesterFolk]

It seems though that many Muslims especially Arabs think twice about being to harsh on there brothers who are commiting such acts.

I'm enraged as a Black whose parents are from the Sudan.

[Hawa]

At this rate Africa will be a continent without a people,
they're dying of poverty, numerous conflicts, widespread diseases, you name it. The fat cats in power get richer and richer whereas 315 million people survive on less than 1 dollar a day. No one cares about Africa, it seems the whole world is baying for the blood of Africans, why the issue of Darfur has gone on for this long is sickening, even the so called Muslim states refuse to intervene. Muslims have gone back to the state of Jaahiliya, we are a sad lot.

[Woodrow]

For many hundreds of years various cultures have tried unsuccessfully to intervene in the affairs of Africa. We as outsiders tend to place our values, be they western, mid-eastern or oriental upon the people of Africa. Africa has African values and the people have succeeded in resisting all attempts at outside influences. First there was the Egyptian influence. Yet, that never spread beyond the northern coastal regions. The Arab world tried with the same results. Although the Arabs and Phoenicians did and have managed to influence the Sahara regions. However, the Sahara desert has proven to be an effective barrier to keep it from spreading southward.

European influence did not come about until the 1800s. The most notable being the Union of South Africa. But, now that is once again being restored to the people of Africa.

We can cry over what we see as injustices and hardships in Africa. But, none of us can make any changes without the open request of the African people. In natural resources Africa remains the continent with the greatest number of resources. Many nations would like to tap into those resources, I believe the African people see what we call aid as being an invasion and ploy to steal those resources.

No matter what cultural we belong to, we need to keep in mind that the African cultures existed long before our culture. We can not help Africa by trying to place our values upon the African people. If our values can benefit the African people, they can only utilize them by freely requesting them.

Africans have shown that they will resist any outside influence, be the intent of the influence to spread assisstance or to attempt dominance. Africans want to govern Africans and have historicaly shown they do not want outsiders involved in African affairs.

The African nations are very much aware that if they desire help they have the choice of many nations to accept help from. I believe most Africans would view any influence from any non-African Nation to be similar to the way mid-easterners view the Western world.

My point being I do not see how any non-African nation can be of any benefit to Africans.

Are we totaly unable to help, no we can help. However, keep in mind our help needs to be more on personal non-political levels and consist mostly of food and medical care. As individuals the best we can do is financialy support volunteer groups that are involved in providing for direct need, with no political agenda. Once the land is stable then education becomes possible.

[Rou]

It seems though that many Muslims especially Arabs think twice about being to harsh on there brothers who are commiting such acts.

I'm enraged as a Black whose parents are from the Sudan.

there has been not one muslim who i have spoken to who at all thinks dafur is right quite the opposite they see it as an insult to islam..
i have links to africa aswell as my parents went there from india but that is not why i find dafur an insult to islam or why i feel for my brothers there and the innocent are being harmed for politcal and evil reasons i feel this way beacuse i am human and i care for them..let us not judge every muslim on the act of a few...

[ManchesterFolk]

All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.

[Woodrow]

All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.

I can understand and sympathise with your feelings. But, the situation in Darfur is more complex than that. To a large extent it is non-Black killing Black. But it is also Black killing Black and Non-Black killing non_Black and Black killing non-Black.

Sadly it is people that are Africans killing Africans and Muslims killing Muslim. It really is a civil war of Brother killing Brother. All factions are African and Muslim.

If anyone is to blame we would need to look at the government that is trying to control the Sudan and the means they have resorted to accomplish that goal.

[Rou]

All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.

Obviously you need to KNOW a bit more than that before pointing fingers bro..you seem to keep mentioning arabs and islam...

if you lack so many facts why are you easy to hate islam??

those who kill indeed may be so called muslims and those who die may well be muslims so what does this have to do with islam expect that both parties follow it!?

if this was islamic based then why harm those who follow it!?

perhaps you should look in to the matter further before making rash judgments on the whole islamic nation...

[ManchesterFolk]

with islam expect that both parties follow it

Every black in Darfur does not follow Islam. Many do, but all do not.

[Rou]

Every black in Darfur does not follow Islam. Many do, but all do not.

ok and?

whats that got to do with anything? if anything that further proves this is not an islamic thing as both non muslims and muslims are suffering together!?

you could say its a black thing!?

if those who are attacking are doing it based on the color of skin and not religon as it does seem to be the case as u just stated then why mention islam!?

[ManchesterFolk]

if those who are attacking are doing it based on the color of skin and not religon as it does seem to be the case as u just stated then why mention islam!?

I mention Islam because the way they get recruits the so called "Arab militias" are by calling them and doing it the name of Islam. I know that killing blacks is not islamic, but where are the good folk in Sudan who are willing to stand up and say, "NO! Killing blacks is not Islamic!"

[justahumane]

Im sorry im confused as i stated this is being tallked about by muslims awell as iraq and afgan and palastine and as in dafur indeed muslims still die in iraq and afgan and palastine!?

so what your trying to state makes no sense what your saying is we are all funding iraq and afgan etc but not dafur!? and the way you have worked this out is by saying that people in dafur are still dying!??

uhmmm well they are still dying in iraq and afgan and palastine aswell!?? so that logic makes no sense!?

second you state muslims are saying letthere be more casulties!?? where did you get that from!?? and how does that makes sense where will muslims get aasking for that!? that again is failed logic...

thirdly you state your hindu thats fine bro no issue there i have many hindu brothers but you say you want to know whats going on in the ummah cos you know many muslims who dont care about the dafur!??

brother i know mosques full who do and!??

as stated in all religons there will be those who are evil doers and the true ummah will weed them out inshallah..

muslims will never find any good in the suffering of any innocents logic behind saying we want more casulties as muslims in dafur makes no sense as you stated there muslim to...

i suggest looking deeper into islamic ways if you wish to comment on the ummah and what muslims want cos dafur is an insult to islam and humanity...

Well yes brother, I firmly feel that there is hypocricy in muslim world when it comes to death of muslims in Darfur vs other parts of the world. U may argue it further and refute my point, but that will do little to convince me. Coz I have many muslims around me where I m living, perhaps maybe more than Urself. And I know that a lion share of them doesnt even know whats going on in Darfur, coz their Imam hasnt ever delievered emotional Friday sermons trying to inflame their sentiments while telling them how their bretherns are being killed in that part of the world. Its delibrate I know very well.

Bottomline is that muslims (Majority of, not all) care less for their bretherns dying in Darfur as compared in other regions. Its a bitter pill U have to swallow brother.

[justahumane]

hmm i sense sarcasem? theres no need for this brother...

second i suggest perhaps you get to know real muslims...

and there presence there...

Adeel Jafferi, Islamic Relief Press Officer, flew out to join IR staff in Darfur, western Sudan last week, and is writing a diary for Islamic-Relief.com about his experiences.

Saturday 7th August: I arrived in the Al Riyadh camp in El-Geneina, West Darfur's main town, which Islamic Relief have been managing since the crisis began. My first view was from the rise of a hill and the scene was overwhelming. The staff in Khartoum had given me an idea of what to expect, but nothing could have prepared me for what I saw. Stretched out for miles were tiny makeshift shelters.

there are those who would promote hate within islam brother there are those who would burn the fires of hate between brother and brother and spread lies to support such hate..all i can say is they will find there due brother if not in this life in the next...

:w:

Well sorry brother, I m sorry for my sarcastic remarks. I agree and admit that I get carried away while speaking on such topics. Gonna edit my post.

Thanks for sharing pic of the brother who is doing great service to the darfur victims. May ALLAH bless him. But we need many many more like him to heal the wounds of those ppls.

I still have complains about less muslim presence in Darfur and less muslim awareness regarding whats happening there.

Thanks

[Rou]

I mention Islam because the way they get recruits the so called "Arab militias" are by calling them and doing it the name of Islam. I know that killing blacks is not islamic, but where are the good folk in Sudan who are willing to stand up and say, "NO! Killing blacks is not Islamic!"

wait listen...

how can they recruit based on islam to kill muslims!? that to any muslim is instant hell anyway..

and you just stated to kill blacks..exactly this aint about religon or islam then its about race...

and as for the good folks i showed you examples of them and there are many many more...there are evil doers in all races just as there are those of good nature..

and second there are blacks killing blacks so how does that fit in!???

[Rou]

Well yes brother, I firmly feel that there is hypocricy in muslim world when it comes to death of muslims in Darfur vs other parts of the world. U may argue it further and refute my point, but that will do little to convince me. Coz I have many muslims around me where I m living, perhaps maybe more than Urself. And I know that a lion share of them doesnt even know whats going on in Darfur, coz their Imam hasnt ever delievered emotional Friday sermons trying to inflame their sentiments while telling them how their bretherns are being killed in that part of the world. Its delibrate I know very well.

Bottomline is that muslims (Majority of, not all) care less for their bretherns dying in Darfur as compared in other regions. Its a bitter pill U have to swallow brother.

lol so all the charity that gets collected by my muslim brothers here is not enough to the lack of charity that is given by muslims you know and that is how you judge the muslim race...

This is not the way brother...

you say you will not be convinced im not trying to convince you bro im but telling you what i know as a muslim from my experience...so those muslims dont care in your area that is not a way to judge a race or religon there will always be evil doers and together we must weed them out...

[Rou]

Well sorry brother, I m sorry for my sarcastic remarks. I agree and admit that I get carried away while speaking on such topics. Gonna edit my post.

Thanks for sharing pic of the brother who is doing great service to the darfur victims. May ALLAH bless him. But we need many many more like him to heal the wounds of those ppls.

I still have complains about less muslim presence in Darfur and less muslim awareness regarding whats happening there.

Thanks

We all hope more people (not only muslims) help and think for the people in dafur but thats what we must do lead by example muslims do care bro just as many non muslims do i suggest not putting all muslims or non muslims in one basket...

[AHMED_GUREY]

The Eastern Front was created last year by the region's largest ethnic group, the Beja, and the Rashidiyya Arabs, and has similar aims to its better-known counterparts in Darfur: greater autonomy and control of resources. Its members have waged a low-level insurgency, and Sudan says the push to defuse the crisis is part of efforts to pacify the whole country by building on peace pacts reached recently with other rebels.

Rashidiyya arab

[justahumane]

lol so all the charity that gets collected by my muslim brothers here is not enough to the lack of charity that is given by muslims you know and that is how you judge the muslim race...

This is not the way brother...

you say you will not be convinced im not trying to convince you bro im but telling you what i know as a muslim from my experience...so those muslims dont care in your area that is not a way to judge a race or religon there will always be evil doers and together we must weed them out...

Well brother, its simple maths if u wish to understand.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.


Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.

Thanks.

[Woodrow]

Well brother, its simple maths if u wish to understand.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.


Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.

Thanks.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

I believe if you check out the past 20 years of Iran and Iraq you will find much more casualties. Although the current situation has produced many, going back over the past 20 years you will find there has been continuous internal strive, the death toll has been much larger there.

No, the death toll in Darfur should not be overlooked, but it is not greater than what it has been in other places.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.

This thread has recieved sufficient views to keep it on the first page longer then any other recent thread. The number of posts and views are in the higher numbers of the majority of threads, in the "World Affairs" section.

Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.



There are probably more international and Muslim organizations involved in the welfare of Darfur than any other current conflict. The problem is not the lack of concern, but the inability for anyone to find a successfull solution. No, Muslims around the world have not just simply thrown their hands up in the air and given up. It is just that external influence is not very effective for ending internal conflict.


Just a few of the groups (Muslim and Non-Muslim, the Non-Muslim ones also have a significant number of Muslims involved) that have been engaged in bringing peace to Darfur and the problems they have run into:


Sudan Aid
Darfur, Sudan - 10,000 Facing Death 2 Million Homeless. Donate.
www.WorldVision.org


Stop Genocide in Darfur
Take Action Today and Demand UN Peacekeepers in Darfur
www.savedarfur.org



Sudanese governrment and rebel groups agree to end war
Adam Sherif, a Darfur refugee living at Gaga camp in east. ... agencies hope the
agreement will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/05/MNGTMILKIS67DTL

NEWS ANALYSIS / Rebel groups' snub threatens new pact for peace in ...
The Darfur peace deal the Sudanese government and a major rebel group signed on
Friday ... will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGUUIMR571.DTL


Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | It was meant to bring peace ...
It was meant to bring peace. Instead, British-brokered deal has rekindled war In
Darfur's refugee camps, survivors tell of attacks by rebel groups that used ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/stor...884432,00.html


CAFOD : News and events : News : Darfur 2004-09-16
Bringing aid to Darfur: Thanks to the extraordinary generosity of ... are being
equipped and stocked with food for under-fives and other vulnerable groups. ...
http://www.cafod.org.uk/news_and_eve...fur_2004_09_16

Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur Petition
Increased violence between rival rebel groups in Sudan has put millions of Darfur
... Note: This Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur petition was ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/891099140


Groups raise tribal leaders' suspicions - Boston.com
International aid groups are increasingly relying on local NGOs to bring long-term
relief to Darfur, a region of western Sudan where more than 2,5 million ...
http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...rs_suspicions/

Oxfam America: Frequently Asked Questions
The Darfur Peace Agreement, signed in May, 2006 between the government and one
of the now numerous rebel groups, has yet to bring security to Darfur. ...
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/whatwedo...ies/sudan/faqs

Aid workers in Darfur persevere against violence and suspicion ...
International aid groups have withdrawn from large sections of Darfur, ...
El Sallam's refugee leaders on Wednesday before bringing in the Sudanese workers. ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...Darfur_Aid.php

allAfrica.com: Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to ...
Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to Darfur: Less Than 'One Piece of
... People are living in very close quarters in groups anywhere from just a ...
http://allafrica.com/stories/200406240867.html

United Nations - OCHA IRIN | Web Special | Sudan: A future without ...
We have a list of atrocities committed by the rebel groups - killing, raping,
looting, destroying development projects. In South Darfur, they have been ...
http://www.irinnews.org/webspecials/...r/Int-GHAC.asp


There are many, many more. This has been an issue that the Muslim Ummah and the rest of the world has been trying to end for the past 20 years. It is not that Darfur is overlooked and ignored, it is the simple fact that nothing has worked yet.





Probably the fastest way to end the conflict would be for an outside force to invade and conquer both sides and set up a dictatorship. However, I doubt if many would want that as a solution.

[Avicenna]

Please stay on topic. This is about Dawkin's book, not Darfur.

[Woodrow]

Please stay on topic. This is about Dawkin's book, not Darfur.

HUH??? Please read the thread title and the posts. The Dawkins thread is 3 threads to the left. You have wandered into the Darfur thread.

[Rou]

Well brother, its simple maths if u wish to understand.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.


Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.

Thanks.

Now you see there i do not agree as stated there are many who talk about dafur however as stated its an internal affair if muslim kills muslim we arent happy but when others are killing muslims what are we suppoused to do!? also you state the people killed in dafur are greater than anywhere else ccan you show where you got this from as i dont think it adds up...

second this is not a muslim thing bro as we can blame christians for killing christians within there own land bu5t again tat is not pointed at as a religous matter more of an internal matter you could say many christians dont care for there homeless yet we say americans r british but we dont link there religon so why the case with muslims!? why not say no one in africa seems to care or in saudi!?

yet still its pointed at muslims...thats based around religon and that is not needed.

as i said many muslims are doing something to help...

if you have alot of concern then all i can say is do your best to help via charity etc its not going to help pointing fingers at religon as it does not make sense in this case either way.

[Rou]

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

I believe if you check out the past 20 years of Iran and Iraq you will find much more casualties. Although the current situation has produced many, going back over the past 20 years you will find there has been continuous internal strive, the death toll has been much larger there.

No, the death toll in Darfur should not be overlooked, but it is not greater than what it has been in other places.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.

This thread has recieved sufficient views to keep it on the first page longer then any other recent thread. The number of posts and views are in the higher numbers of the majority of threads, in the "World Affairs" section.

Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.



There are probably more international and Muslim organizations involved in the welfare of Darfur than any other current conflict. The problem is not the lack of concern, but the inability for anyone to find a successfull solution. No, Muslims around the world have not just simply thrown their hands up in the air and given up. It is just that external influence is not very effective for ending internal conflict.


Just a few of the groups (Muslim and Non-Muslim, the Non-Muslim ones also have a significant number of Muslims involved) that have been engaged in bringing peace to Darfur and the problems they have run into:


Sudan Aid
Darfur, Sudan - 10,000 Facing Death 2 Million Homeless. Donate.
www.WorldVision.org


Stop Genocide in Darfur
Take Action Today and Demand UN Peacekeepers in Darfur
www.savedarfur.org



Sudanese governrment and rebel groups agree to end war
Adam Sherif, a Darfur refugee living at Gaga camp in east. ... agencies hope the
agreement will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/05/MNGTMILKIS67DTL

NEWS ANALYSIS / Rebel groups' snub threatens new pact for peace in ...
The Darfur peace deal the Sudanese government and a major rebel group signed on
Friday ... will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGUUIMR571.DTL


Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | It was meant to bring peace ...
It was meant to bring peace. Instead, British-brokered deal has rekindled war In
Darfur's refugee camps, survivors tell of attacks by rebel groups that used ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/stor...884432,00.html


CAFOD : News and events : News : Darfur 2004-09-16
Bringing aid to Darfur: Thanks to the extraordinary generosity of ... are being
equipped and stocked with food for under-fives and other vulnerable groups. ...
http://www.cafod.org.uk/news_and_eve...fur_2004_09_16

Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur Petition
Increased violence between rival rebel groups in Sudan has put millions of Darfur
... Note: This Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur petition was ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/891099140


Groups raise tribal leaders' suspicions - Boston.com
International aid groups are increasingly relying on local NGOs to bring long-term
relief to Darfur, a region of western Sudan where more than 2,5 million ...
http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...rs_suspicions/

Oxfam America: Frequently Asked Questions
The Darfur Peace Agreement, signed in May, 2006 between the government and one
of the now numerous rebel groups, has yet to bring security to Darfur. ...
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/whatwedo...ies/sudan/faqs

Aid workers in Darfur persevere against violence and suspicion ...
International aid groups have withdrawn from large sections of Darfur, ...
El Sallam's refugee leaders on Wednesday before bringing in the Sudanese workers. ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...Darfur_Aid.php

allAfrica.com: Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to ...
Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to Darfur: Less Than 'One Piece of
... People are living in very close quarters in groups anywhere from just a ...
http://allafrica.com/stories/200406240867.html

United Nations - OCHA IRIN | Web Special | Sudan: A future without ...
We have a list of atrocities committed by the rebel groups - killing, raping,
looting, destroying development projects. In South Darfur, they have been ...
http://www.irinnews.org/webspecials/...r/Int-GHAC.asp


There are many, many more. This has been an issue that the Muslim Ummah and the rest of the world has been trying to end for the past 20 years. It is not that Darfur is overlooked and ignored, it is the simple fact that nothing has worked yet.





Probably the fastest way to end the conflict would be for an outside force to invade and conquer both sides and set up a dictatorship. However, I doubt if many would want that as a solution.

What more is there to say....

:bravo:

[Rou]

Please stay on topic. This is about Dawkin's book, not Darfur.

LOL the irony!

[justahumane]

Now you see there i do not agree as stated there are many who talk about dafur however as stated its an internal affair if muslim kills muslim we arent happy but when others are killing muslims what are we suppoused to do!? also you state the people killed in dafur are greater than anywhere else ccan you show where you got this from as i dont think it adds up...

second this is not a muslim thing bro as we can blame christians for killing christians within there own land bu5t again tat is not pointed at as a religous matter more of an internal matter you could say many christians dont care for there homeless yet we say americans r british but we dont link there religon so why the case with muslims!? why not say no one in africa seems to care or in saudi!?

yet still its pointed at muslims...thats based around religon and that is not needed.

as i said many muslims are doing something to help...

if you have alot of concern then all i can say is do your best to help via charity etc its not going to help pointing fingers at religon as it does not make sense in this case either way.

We will continue our discussion InshAllah brother, but first plz justify ur comments in bold, where I pointed finger at religion? my posts are still there on the thread, unedited. Plz let me know where I strayed from actual path of discussion to pointing fingers.

Thanks

[Rou]

We will continue our discussion InshAllah brother, but first plz justify ur comments in bold, where I pointed finger at religion? my posts are still there on the thread, unedited. Plz let me know where I strayed from actual path of discussion to pointing fingers.

Thanks

Brother byt mentioning muslims in the equation instead of stating clearly that its between the black and arab factions it indicates you seem to think this is a religous issue!? as stated the people involoved are both of muslim background this seems a race issue more than a religous one...

also stating that muslims are not doing enough again this pin points muslims as per there religon not doing enough for muslims who are black!? in islam there are no such barriers...its a fact that this is an internal issue i agree it should be sorted out but external powers getting involved on normal basis has always shown negative results not postive..

anyhow as i have stated muslims are not one group we are far and wide alot of us care about what is happening and alot of us dont this is the way of things many muslims ignore iraq and afgan and dafur but that is in all religons and races to be expected...

no ones perfect

[wilberhum]

Sudanese army calls U.N. envoy a military threat
http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...1_%5bFeed%5d-9
KHARTOUM (Reuters) - Sudan's armed forces said the continued presence of the United Nations' top envoy in Sudan posed a danger to the army after comments he made about two major army losses in battles with Darfur rebels.
Jan Pronk said on his Web site that the army had suffered two major defeats, generals had been sacked and demoralized soldiers had refused service in North Darfur in recent weeks.
The Sudanese military statement said Pronk was intervening in the affairs of the armed forces and cooperating with the rebels to wage a psychological war against the army.
"We think that the presence of Jan Pronk in Sudan represents a military danger to the Sudan armed forces in ... carrying out its duties," said the statement, released on Friday.
The statement accused Pronk of undermining the army by "casting doubt on the ability of the Sudanese Armed Forces to protect the Sudanese people and defend the state".
One army source elaborated saying the armed forces were asking President Omar Hassan al-Bashir, a military man himself, to take the "necessary procedures" against Pronk, which could include asking him to leave the country.

[Woodrow]

As badly as they need some one to intercede and how many have tried to interced. Intercession is seldom ever welcomed and so far I never heard of it working.

This is not a fault of the people of the Sudan, it has occured in every nation I have seen any intercession. People have a very strong desire for self determination and typicaly they will be against anyone who tries to help them if they feel the self determination is threatened. People seem to prefer dieing at the hands of their brothers than to be helped by an outsider.

[Rou]

As badly as they need some one to intercede and how many have tried to interced. Intercession is seldom ever welcomed and so far I never heard of it working.

This is not a fault of the people of the Sudan, it has occured in every nation I have seen any intercession. People have a very strong desire for self determination and typicaly they will be against anyone who tries to help them if they feel the self determination is threatened. People seem to prefer dieing at the hands of their brothers than to be helped by an outsider.

if helped in the correct way i beleive changes can take place unfortunatly with the current economic status and world shift of power i doubt anyone is there to help in the right way indeed only end up making it worse...

i hope in the future we do have an impartial power that would help stop things like this happening or at least delegate between the two fairly instead of looking at which will be the greater economic benefit or future ally...

it should be based on the comfort of the people and saftey of there innocents not the lining of the already full pockets...

[justahumane]

Brother byt mentioning muslims in the equation instead of stating clearly that its between the black and arab factions it indicates you seem to think this is a religous issue!? as stated the people involoved are both of muslim background this seems a race issue more than a religous one...

also stating that muslims are not doing enough again this pin points muslims as per there religon not doing enough for muslims who are black!? in islam there are no such barriers...its a fact that this is an internal issue i agree it should be sorted out but external powers getting involved on normal basis has always shown negative results not postive..

anyhow as i have stated muslims are not one group we are far and wide alot of us care about what is happening and alot of us dont this is the way of things many muslims ignore iraq and afgan and dafur but that is in all religons and races to be expected...

no ones perfect

Brother I know its not a religious issue but a racial one. But that doesnt change the fact that believers are killing believers inspite of ALLAH's strict commands not to kill any believer. I conclude that those killers are munafiqeen who dont believe in ALLAH's commands. End.

Brother, My heart doesnt believe that the muslims are that much concerned, as they should be. Not even near to that. And to me its final till I get some concrete proof that muslims are really worried for their black bretherns.........I hope racism working here too.

Yes, but what I have observed so far about muslims, that they remain more or less passive when ppls of some other religion are killed, but become hyper active when some muslims get killed........and I have no issues with this too...........only I smell rat when Darfur doesnt get that much tears as it is supposed to be given the size of crisis.

And ALLAH knows best.

[Rou]

Brother I know its not a religious issue but a racial one. But that doesnt change the fact that believers are killing believers inspite of ALLAH's strict commands not to kill any believer. I conclude that those killers are munafiqeen who dont believe in ALLAH's commands. End.

Brother, My heart doesnt believe that the muslims are that much concerned, as they should be. Not even near to that. And to me its final till I get some concrete proof that muslims are really worried for their black bretherns.........I hope racism working here too.

Yes, but what I have observed so far about muslims, that they remain more or less passive when ppls of some other religion are killed, but become hyper active when some muslims get killed........and I have no issues with this too...........only I smell rat when Darfur doesnt get that much tears as it is supposed to be given the size of crisis.

And ALLAH knows best.

Indeed allah knows best...

as stated many muslim charities give to dafur...

many muslims talk about dafur brother and what to do about it just as they do about iraq and afgan etc...

in the end bro i live in uk and i dont see many westerners talking of dafur let alone know where it even is...

all i can say is you say many muslims...i am a muslim brother and i care let us not judge the whole world on the bases of a few..indeed there are bad people in the muslim community but no worse than any other community...

it is just as equal to any other race not caring bro..

but as you stated allah knows best...

[justahumane]

Indeed allah knows best...

as stated many muslim charities give to dafur...

many muslims talk about dafur brother and what to do about it just as they do about iraq and afgan etc...

in the end bro i live in uk and i dont see many westerners talking of dafur let alone know where it even is...

all i can say is you say many muslims...i am a muslim brother and i care let us not judge the whole world on the bases of a few..indeed there are bad people in the muslim community but no worse than any other community...

it is just as equal to any other race not caring bro..

but as you stated allah knows best...

Well I think that we have reached to an agreement between us on this issue with this post of urs.

[Rou]

Well I think that we have reached to an agreement between us on this issue with this post of urs.

Glad to hear it :)

:w: