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sonz
10-13-2006, 10:22 PM
Israeli occupation forces prevented hundreds of Palestinian Muslims from entering the holy city of Jerusalem for Friday prayers at the Al Aqsa Mosque on 13 October, the third Friday in the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

Israeli occupation soldiers confronted the crowds of Palestinians - including elderly men, women and children - at a number of checkpoints and barriers around the city of Jerusalem.

At the Qalandia checkpoint between the West Bank city of Ramallah and Jerusalem, Israeli jeeps and soldiers took up position on Friday morning and used water cannons to prevent scores of Muslims from passing. Reports also indicate that the Israeli soldiers used tear gas and fired rubber and electric bullets in an attempt to disperse the crowds. Electric bullets are a recent addition to the occupation forces' arsenal; on contact, the bullet gives the recipient an electric shock. The Israeli soldiers are also reported to have used sticks to beat the crowds away.

Reports from the scene say that at least twenty Palestinians were suffering from the effects of tear gas and a number had been injured. At least half of the potential worshippers were not allowed to cross the checkpoint into Jerusalem.

Similar scenes were witnessed at the main checkpoint between the West Bank city of Bethlehem and Jerusalem. The Israeli soldiers beat the crowds back with sticks and threw sound grenades into the middle of the waiting Palestinians. One sound grenade landed at the feet of a small child. The grenade exploded in his face, causing him slight burns and shock. Many others suffered burns from the sound grenades.

Despite Israeli media reports that Palestinians had been throwing stones at the Israeli occupation soldiers at the checkpoints, there were no reports of Palestinians throwing stones at either the Bethlehem or Qalandia checkpoints. Rather, in the crush at the Bethlehem checkpoint, many tried to run away and in the stampede, an elderly woman was trampled. A Palestinian ambulance was on the scene treating the injured.

Apparently at random, a number of men - if aged over 45 - were eventually allowed through the Bethlehem checkpoint into Jerusalem. At the checkpoint near the village of Anata, a few elderly men were allowed to pass only. Hundreds were held back.

It is reported that tens of thousands of Palestinians were hoping to enter Jerusalem on Friday in order to pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. The Al-Aqsa Mosque is considered the third holiest Islamic site in the world after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20ar...20grenades.htm
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akulion
10-13-2006, 10:57 PM
nothing new here

more persecution while the world turns a blind eye

terrible
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wilberhum
10-13-2006, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
nothing new here

more persecution while the world turns a blind eye

terrible
Maybe the problem would get better if the Palestinian government was not determined to destroy Israel.
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akulion
10-13-2006, 11:21 PM
well its not them whose kicking people out of their houses to form 'settlements'

and its not them forming 'aparthied roads'

like i said - world turns a blind eye
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wilberhum
10-13-2006, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
well its not them whose kicking people out of their houses to form 'settlements'

and its not them forming 'aparthied roads'

like i said - world turns a blind eye
And of course we know that all problems are entirely the Isralies fault and the Palestinian are blaimless and have never done any thing except try to live in peace. :hiding:
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akulion
10-13-2006, 11:26 PM
well it wasnt the palestiniens who invaded the land and kicked all the jewish people out and formed settlements to begin with :P

if the uk was so bent on forming isreal maybe it should have given then burmingham lol

not to mention the WMD's Isreal possesses thanks to the US which poses as a threat to the entire region
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wilberhum
10-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
well it wasnt the palestiniens who invaded the land and kicked all the jewish people out and formed settlements to begin with :P

if the uk was so bent on forming isreal maybe it should have given then burmingham lol

not to mention the WMD's Isreal possesses thanks to the US which poses as a threat to the entire region
I see no difference between what has happened in Israel and Pakistan. Except who won and who lost.
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*charisma*
10-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Maybe the problem would get better if the Palestinian government was not determined to destroy Israel.
The palestinian government is possibly determined to destroy Israel, but maybe it's because Israel is already distroying Palestine. So I don't know how the problem could really get any "better". I think everyone should go to Palestine, and then we'll see which side you would support. What have the palestinians done compared to what the Israeli's are doing to them currently and in the past?

Absolutely NOTHING.

I can list (shoud I?) the abuse, torture, and injustice I've witnessed myself, and the abuse I've heard from the Israeli zionists themselves, and the abuse and torture I've heard from palestinians. Can an Israeli possibly do the same for the perspective of his people?

This is basically genocide of the Palestinian people, but it isn't recognized because they believe what they are doing is right. Just as the Germans believed the genocide of Jews and all nongermans was right, and just as whites truly believed all blacks should be dehumanized, or Indians exterminated. This is just another one of those beliefs not looked upon.

regards,
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Keltoi
10-14-2006, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
The palestinian government is possibly determined to destroy Israel, but maybe it's because Israel is already distroying Palestine. So I don't know how the problem could really get any "better". I think everyone should go to Palestine, and then we'll see which side you would support. What have the palestinians done compared to what the Israeli's are doing to them currently and in the past?

Absolutely NOTHING.

I can list (shoud I?) the abuse, torture, and injustice I've witnessed myself, and the abuse I've heard from the Israeli zionists themselves, and the abuse and torture I've heard from palestinians. Can an Israeli possibly do the same for the perspective of his people?

This is basically genocide of the Palestinian people, but it isn't recognized because they believe what they are doing is right. Just as the Germans believed the genocide of Jews and all nongermans was right, and just as whites truly believed all blacks should be dehumanized, or Indians exterminated. This is just another one of those beliefs not looked upon.

regards,
With all due respect, I don't think this explanation is sufficient. Yes, Israel is responsible for many terrible things in regards to the Palestinians. However, the political reality of this situation isn't as simple as Israel=bad Palestinians = poor abused people. There have been atrocities committed by each side, probably too many to count. The new Hamas "government" has taken the Palestinians about 10 steps backwards. So has the Hezbollah action a few months ago. I thought after Arafat died we would see peace between Israel and the Palestinians fairly soon, but alas the cycle continues. I'm more pessimistic now that I was 10 years ago.
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*charisma*
10-14-2006, 01:05 AM
With all due respect, I don't think this explanation is sufficient.
Sufficient for what? For the destruction of Israel by the Palestinians?

If Israel removed all the checkpoints, allowed Palestine to strengthen it's economy, opened the borders to other countries (such as Jordan), opened the streets so that people could get to their jobs easier and faster and support thier families, stopped torturing and abuse of palestinians, returned all jailed detainees (including children) back to their families, destroyed all the Israeli jails and allowed the palestinians to take control of their own government, and actually helped the palestinians as a way of apology-- would Hamas be needed or even want to destroy Israel then?

Allahu A'lem, but as far as I know, only the Palestinians and Israeli's themselves can only truly judge what is really going on. I can only base my opinion on what I've seen and heard. So far the mass population has only heard and seen through second and third-hand perspectives.

regards,
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Ninth_Scribe
10-14-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
nothing new here

more persecution while the world turns a blind eye

terrible
Not true... the world is not turning a blind eye! I'm working on this very issue as we speak, and I have an 'equal collateral' offering in Iraq to insure the safety of the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. A little **** patience would help. Tell Hamas to stand down till I can sort it all out.

Ninth Scribe
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 01:30 AM
Seems both sides never learn.

I remember when the Western Wall was under Muslim hands, Jews were forbiden to go there.

Now Jews are puting "restrictions" on Muslims.

I guess the Jews are just learning from what the Muslims did to them.
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Quran_Studies
10-16-2006, 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Maybe the problem would get better if the Palestinian government was not determined to destroy Israel.
Maybe the problem would get better if the Khazarian Jews went back to Germany where they really belong.
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Quran_Studies
Maybe the problem would get better if the Khazarian Jews went back to Germany where they really belong.
But I thought it was already proven here that the "Khazarian" Jews actually have different types of DNS traits rather than Ashkenezi Jews who are more related to Arabs DNA wise then to Europeans. But continue with your arguement although it lack fact.

The Khazar theory has been adopted by many anti-Zionists, especially in the Arab world; such proponents of the theory argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar in origin, then they would be outside the scope of God's promise of Canaan to Israelites as recorded in the Bible. This ignores, of course, the fact that the Biblical promise explicitly includes converts, and the fact that over half of Israeli Jews are not Ashkenazi.
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Skillganon
10-16-2006, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Maybe the problem would get better if the Palestinian government was not determined to destroy Israel.

Maybe this problem would not happen if Zionist forcefully stole the land and create a state of Israel.

It will be better to dismantle this govermment, hence remove state of Israel.
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Maybe this problem would not happen if Zionist forcefully stole the land and create a state of Israel.

It will be better to dismantle this govermment, hence remove state of Israel.
Oh? May I remind you that this exact same landwas forcefully stolen from the Jews much farther back in time, and then from the Christians. May I also remind you that Muslims did not just walk in peacefully to control the Holy Land. Saladin, The Ayyubids of Egypt in 1244. The Mamelukes in 1260, and in 1517, Jerusalem and its environs fell to the Ottoman Turks then to.

Out of the three religions which claim Jerusalem to be holy city to them, the Jews have archeological evidence to support that they have been there the longest. Therefore, maybe the conquering arguement is not your best choice.
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Quran_Studies
10-16-2006, 02:10 AM
Out of the three religions which claim Jerusalem to be holy city to them, the Jews have archeological evidence to support that they have been there the longest. Therefore, maybe the conquering arguement is not your best choice.
LOL, so many logical fallacies ......

1.) Archaelogical evidence?? Just because it has religious significance doesnt mean land belong to the Jews?

2.) Most of the Jews are descendants of Germans, Polish, and Russians. Do you think the blonde hair, blue-eyed leaders of Israel are Arab??

3.) Muslims have better claims to the land than the Jew both based on hisytorical as well as religious grounds.

It's fun refuting intellectual midgets :)
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 02:17 AM
1.) Archaelogical evidence?? Just because it has religious significance doesnt mean land belong to the Jews?
I was referring to the evidence that links ancient archaeological objects of the Jewish faith, in the Holy Land thousands of years before the Quran.

2.) Most of the Jews are descendants of Germans, Polish, and Russians. Do you think the blonde hair, blue-eyed leaders of Israel are Arab??
Actually, if you are referring to Israeli Jews, the latest Demographic has 50% of them being Arab, and hundreds of thousands more being Black. But what are proofs when facing you? Your so hard on hateful to wards your enemies, and have been so brain washed, we could find a video recording of King David and you wouldn't budge.

3.) Muslims have better claims to the land than the Jew both based on hisytorical as well as religious grounds.
Wait, am I suppose to naively believe the "fiction" presented to me about Jews by a man with a past of supporting Nazi groups? Are you that gullible to actually buy into it? I presume yes.

No intellectual can refute your "hisytorical" proofs...

It's fun refuting intellectual midgets
So you presented me with the works of an anti-jew, non-factual demographic information, and terrible spelling. With that combo, you refuted me for sure!!!
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Skillganon
10-16-2006, 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Oh? May I remind you that this exact same landwas forcefully stolen from the Jews much farther back in time, and then from the Christians. May I also remind you that Muslims did not just walk in peacefully to control the Holy Land. Saladin, The Ayyubids of Egypt in 1244. The Mamelukes in 1260, and in 1517, Jerusalem and its environs fell to the Ottoman Turks then to.

Out of the three religions which claim Jerusalem to be holy city to them, the Jews have archeological evidence to support that they have been there the longest. Therefore, maybe the conquering arguement is not your best choice.

I wonder where did Jews come from. Don't say the God promised us this land so it is ours.

Secondly I believe the indegeniouse people should be allowed, not flood the country with immigrants to bolster the claim of the land by political means, to create your own state and grab as much land as possible by any means.

It is suprising how this 3% goes upto 78% and suddenly the zionsist becomes the majority.

If Israel can be created than it can be dismantled also.
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 02:27 AM
It is suprising how this 3% goes upto 78% and suddenly the zionsist becomes the majority.
You speak about mass immigration to the Holy Land like it is a new thing? How do you think Christians and Muslims got there to? Records have it that Muslims mass immigrated to the Holy Land as well at different periods of time.

If Israel can be created than it can be dismantled also.
I agree when fact is presented. Israel could very wll be dismantled and nothing would changes. People have conquered and fell in the land, Muslims have to, don't deny your past. You ahve occupied others lands as well.

I just hate to see people scream "occupation", when no religion is innocent of it.
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Skillganon
10-16-2006, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
You speak about mass immigration to the Holy Land like it is a new thing? How do you think Christians and Muslims got there to? Records have it that Muslims mass immigrated to the Holy Land as well at different periods of time.
Why not they became muslim?
If you go to for example bangladesh or indonesia you will not call the muslim immigrants from arab.


I agree when fact is presented. Israel could very wll be dismantled and nothing would changes. People have conquered and fell in the land, Muslims have to, don't deny your past. You ahve occupied others lands as well.

I just hate to see people scream "occupation", when no religion is innocent of it.
That mainly goes same for any ideology (Religion & Non-religion) if it is miss-used.
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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 02:43 AM
Why not they became muslim?
If you go to for example bangladesh or indonesia you will not call the muslim immigrants from arab.
But the Arab peoples in the Holy were actually recorded by census information taken by various ruling parties to be immigrants. Not converts.

The Main reason for huge Arab presence in the Holy Land today is because the Muslim armies INVADED the Holy Land. Just like the Jews did when they RETOOK it. When you step back, it is easy to see that it is a never ending cylce no one is innocent of.
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Ninth_Scribe
10-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Maybe the problem would get better if the Palestinian government was not determined to destroy Israel.
Maybe you should wander on over to the "Who and What is Israel" thread and catch some of the action there before you start talking about Israel. Deal with that portion of the family tree and we'll pick up here where you leave off.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...at-israel.html

Ninth Scribe
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wilberhum
10-17-2006, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Maybe you should wander on over to the "Who and What is Israel" thread and catch some of the action there before you start talking about Israel. Deal with that portion of the family tree and we'll pick up here where you leave off.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...at-israel.html

Ninth Scribe
Who and What is Israel” Is just another anti-Israel thread. Everything Israel does is evil; every thing done to Israel is good.

Israel disregards civilian safety when they go after there enemies and they are evil.
Israel enemies go after Israelis civilians and they are good.
What a balanced evaluation. :hiding: :hiding:

All anti-Israel statements are greeted with glee.
All pro-Israel statements are instantly branded false.

I pity those that live in a black or white world and cannot see the thousand shades of gray. :grumbling :grumbling :grumbling :grumbling
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-17-2006, 05:24 PM
Take a look at the video i posted in world affairs. They are shooting at their OWN people who are protesting. They even shot someone for real and walked on by.
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Ninth_Scribe
10-17-2006, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Who and What is Israel” Is just another anti-Israel thread.
You obviously haven't read it then. Allow me to paint you a picture here. Let's say your real name is Mark and you have a brother named Eric. Eric decides he would be much better off in life if he killed you and inherited all your money and property. If he were in America, Eric would not be able to lawfully inherit Mark's money and property, nor would he be able to swipe Mark's name (identity theft) - he would go to jail.

When I spoke on that thread, I didn't speak on behalf of the Muslims. I spoke on behalf of Israel... the REAL Israel. Check it out or back off the debate.

Ninth Scribe
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