love and hell in christianity

[Malaikah]

Quick question to the christians. I may be misunderstanding something here, but from what i understand, chirstianity teaches love for all humans, even evil people. If God loves everyone, why does he put the people he loves in hellfire?

:?

[Joe98]

.....chirstianity teaches [God's] love for all humans, even evil people.

Your understanding of Christianity is correct. I added the word "God".

.....
If God loves everyone, why does he put the people he loves in hellfire?

Because there is no God.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

lol thats YOUR point of view, not of a Christian :giggling:

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

I'm not sure if its the same as Islam, but if you completely don't believe in God or the Christain beliefs, then you are placed in hell even if you are nice or whatever and you are placed in Paradise as long as you are christain. Just as in Islam (except we're more justified, everyone gets a taste of hellfire) if you believe in anyone other than Allah, you are placed in hell-fire, but as long as you claim yourself Muslim and believe in the shahada, you will end up in Paradise.

Allahu A'lem, may allah forgive me if I'm wrong.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

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[Malaikah]

^yeh but the thing is they believe god loves everyone.. which is what confuses me..

[Keltoi]

As Christians we do believe that God loves all of his creation, and as Christians we aspire to love all people, even enemies. Obviously mankind will fall short of this aspiration. As for Hell and God's love, yes, God can love and punish at the same time.

[Trumble]

If God loves everyone, why does he put the people he loves in hellfire?

Good question, and one that has always puzzled me, although I must confess to sharing Joe's view at the end of the day.

I may be wrong, but I think the whole "hellfire and ****ation" thing is probably medieval in origin? An interpretation of the scriptures basically intended just to scare people into keeping in line?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i dont think hellfire is medieval origin...at least i thinkso =D If you mean scare as in letting them be aware, so they may chose their actions carefully...then yes :) lol

[Umu 'Isa]

But don't christians believe Jesus died for the sins of all of mankind? :?
Doesn't that mean mankind is saved from the hellfire because everyone is sinless?

[Malaikah]

I may be wrong, but I think the whole "hellfire and ****ation" thing is probably medieval in origin? An interpretation of the scriptures basically intended just to scare people into keeping in line?

I'm not sure what you mean here but obviously Muslims believe that the hellfire is real, and Allah is the Most Wise, He knows that if His creations are 'threatened' with punishment for their evil actions then they will avoid evil.

Of course its intended to scare people! There would hardly be much point is God saying 'and we will punish the evil doers by giving them yummy icecream' ^o)

At the same time, theres no doubt that it will be filled:

One Day We will ask Hell, "Art thou filled to the full?" It will say, "Are there any more (to come)?"
[50:30]

:uuh:

[Trumble]

He knows that if His creations are 'threatened' with punishment for their evil actions then they will avoid evil.

Doesn't the thought doesn't occur to you that for an omniscient God that method is rather, well..., crude? Surely there is another way of discouraging evil (maybe like actively encouraging the good a little more visibly) while still allowing free will?

[Malaikah]

Actively encouraging the good? Mate, have you read what the Quran says about paradise?? If thats not encouragement then what is??

God himself created us in such a way so that we can respond to 'crude' threats.

And so what if it is crude? We humans cant even comprehend Gods greatness. What good would it be God had a different method discouraging evil if it was so non-crude that we humans wouldnt even realise it was meant to discourage us.. (i have a feeling what i just said makes no sense.. :?)

With His wisdom, he told us what would happen if we are good, and what will happen if we are evil- the sum effect is that we have reason to avoid bad so as to avoid hell, and to do good so as to gain paradise.

[Tania]

"God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us."116 To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."117 Source


Are sins which can be forgiven and sins which can't. :-[

[duskiness]

I may be wrong, but I think the whole "hellfire and ****ation" thing is probably medieval in origin?

unfortunatly you can find hell in scripture. So it's not medieval concept. Maybe our way of thinking of hell have medieval orgins but I'm not sure.
As i see it (and it's only my pov, not an orthodox one ;) ) to hell goes only those who freely reject God. I hope that even the biggest sinners when they will face Him, they will be given chance to accept Him, ask for marcy and they will be given it.

[Keltoi]

I believe to some extent the Christian mental image of Hell has been formed somewhat due to medieval church descriptions. The same as many mental images of Satan as a red-skinned horned devil with goat hooves, which obviously isn't in the Bible. As many medieval Christians were illiterate it doesn't surprise me that fanciful or frightening images replaced actual text.

[dougmusr]

Quick question to the christians. I may be misunderstanding something here, but from what i understand, chirstianity teaches love for all humans, even evil people. If God loves everyone, why does he put the people he loves in hellfire?

:?

Actually, Christians would say, as would Muslims I would think, that God has given people a choice. God does not send people to Hell who want to go to Heaven. People, given the choice between Heaven and Hell, seem to prefer Hell when the choice also involves a decision to follow God in obedience.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

why would anyone prefer hell when they are obedient?

[dougmusr]

why would anyone prefer hell when they are obedient?

The answer is of course that they wouldn't if they were obedient, but they choose to be disobedient, and therefore they are also choosing Hell because they enjoy disobedience and don't wish to entertain the thought of the reality of Hell.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

ok gotcha. Now u cleared it up =)

[Malaikah]

Actually, Christians would say, as would Muslims I would think, that God has given people a choice. God does not send people to Hell who want to go to Heaven. People, given the choice between Heaven and Hell, seem to prefer Hell when the choice also involves a decision to follow God in obedience.

My point wasnt why hell exists, rather it was why would God love someone and yet cause that person to burn in hell forever?

A friend asked me to post this analogy:

"wouldnt it be weird if someone claimed they loved you and then chased you with a dagger, or tried to burn you alive for infinity? Would you call that person who claims to love you a lover or a liar?"

[Eric H]

Breetings and peace be with you cheese,

A neighbour of mine brought up her son, she taught him the difference between right and wrong and she loved her son. About a year ago her son got involved with drugs and wounded another man with a knife; he is now in prison.

Her son is now being punished for his wrong doings, but should the mother forgive him and continue to love her son or should she stop loving her son. She has been facing depression because her son has done wrong, but she also feels for the victim.

I believe we all place a huge burden on God in the way we treat each other and sin against each other and God. But for God to be loving and forgiving as well, how does he decide what to do? Can God be far greater than the loving mother who continues to love her son after his transgressions?

A valid question atheists bring up is why should a loving God punish someone with eternal ****ation for sins committed in a finite time of less than a hundred years?

Another question that has come up is, I didn’t ask to be born why should I be sent to hell for not following the rules?

I feel that it is through God’s mercy and the sacrifice of Jesus that gives us hope, I do not believe that any of us could achieve salvation through our own efforts.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[Malaikah]

I believe we all place a huge burden on God in the way we treat each other and sin against each other and God.

Burden?:uuh: How can an insignificant, powerless human burden God?

[Keltoi]

Burden?:uuh: How can an insignificant, powerless human burden God?

To call human beings "insignificant" is to call one of God's creations "insignificant".

[ckerofilm]

well compared to God they are

[Keltoi]

[QUOTE=ckerofilm;528396]well compared to God they are[/QUOTE

That isn't the issue. The point is whether human beings are so "insignificant" that God feels no burden when his creations are disobedient to his word. If that was the case there would be no need to have prophets or the Word of God. Obviously we are significant enough to warrant God's attention.

[Allah-creation]

i have a question to chrictians. If god doesnt want his creation to end up in hell why did he created them to sin?

[duskiness]

If god doesnt want his creation to end up in hell why did he created them to sin?

He created them free to choose . There is no good without freedom. And as a christians we hold that people lean more towards sin. Sad but (for us) true ;)
Btw: could you give your answer to the same question?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Same as u, free will. Every child is born in the state of submission(i.e. Muslim) and state of purity. God gave us His signs(i.e. the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh)) and to choose right from wrong. Our job is to follow His commands. If not, then we pay the consequences for whatever wrong we do, unless we repent of course. So to put it simply. This world, our life, is a test for us. Our every action will be judged.

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah
Peace be upon yall

I think the root of the question, from Sis. Cheese stems for the Misconception that G-d loves everyone unconditionally, which is something that alot of people, I have to say, mainly Christians, though I have now seen some Muslims have the same thought, tend to proclaim.

Then the question arises in the minds of many, if this Unconditionally loving G-d loves us so much, why are we going to go hell? Why he not just bail us out?

The Christian response, that I have heard, is:

For the wages of sin is death, thus if we sin and do not embrace forgiveness, which can only come through the Lamb of G-d, then we are condemed by that sin, thus although G-d may love us, he also has to be Just and so hell is the destination.

I personally have alot of questions to such an answer, which to me does not seem scripture proof. But that's an answer I have heard alot, Sis. Cheese.

Hope that's helped in any way.

:)

[snakelegs]

Assalamu Alaikum
Just as in Islam (except we're more justified, everyone gets a taste of hellfire) if you believe in anyone other than Allah, you are placed in hell-fire,

i thought that this is only if you had been made aware of islam and refused to embrace it and that if you never knew about islam, you do not go to hell if you have lived a just life?

but as long as you claim yourself Muslim and believe in the shahada, you will end up in Paradise.

is this true? no matter how much evil you have done in your life? can anyone confirm this? it's the first time i've read this. hope someone will clear this up....
thanks.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well if u do evil acts and do not repent or refrain from ever doing it again, you will go to hell. But, as we believe, it's only temporary for a Muslim. He/she will pay due time for his/her punishment and then go to heaven because the person still declared himself/herself as a Muslim and didn't leave the fold of Islam. I think that's correct.

[snakelegs]

Well if u do evil acts and do not repent or refrain from ever doing it again, you will go to hell. But, as we believe, it's only temporary for a Muslim. He/she will pay due time for his/her punishment and then go to heaven because the person still declared himself/herself as a Muslim and didn't leave the fold of Islam. I think that's correct.

thanks for your reply.
so all muslims will eventually end up in heaven?
i've learned here that christians believe that no matter how moral and just you have been in your life, if you are not a christian, you go to hell.
would you say islam has the same position on this?
to christians - if you are a christian but lead a sinful life, will you still go to heaven, even if you do not repent?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you snakelegs,

I feel that heaven and hell is a mystery to us all, if you ask a hundred Christians there will be many perceptions, ask a hundred Muslims and there will probably be as many more perceptions again. The same God created us all, if we have a faith in God we can only try and do our best and pray that God is merciful to us all.

Maybe try and search for a purpose for the creation of the universe and life….

Before the creation of the universe began does it sound plausible that God would say; I will create life and only grant salvation to those who will call themselves Christian?

In a way it sounds like God might need a greater purpose to create the universe. If God is truly just, loving, merciful and forgiving it sounds as if he might be searching for something greater than saving one faith group.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[Malaikah]

Hi snakelegs :)

so all muslims will eventually end up in heaven?

Yes that is correct, there are many who will be punished first in hell, for as long as god believes they deserve (according to the magnitude of their sins), but eventually, they will enter paradise.

(note that it is not enough for a person to call himself a muslim- the minimum for a person to be considered a muslim is prayer)

i've learned here that christians believe that no matter how moral and just you have been in your life, if you are not a christian, you go to hell.

The same applies in Islam, only muslims will enter paradise.

This is the islamic point of view- this is what God told us- no philosphy needed, no need to look for a deeper meaning... and it would be foolish to believe (as a muslim) otherwise because that would be like thinking that God is lying to us.

:)

[snakelegs]

Greetings and peace to you snakelegs,

I feel that heaven and hell is a mystery to us all, if you ask a hundred Christians there will be many perceptions, ask a hundred Muslims and there will probably be as many more perceptions again. The same God created us all, if we have a faith in God we can only try and do our best and pray that God is merciful to us all.

Maybe try and search for a purpose for the creation of the universe and life….

Before the creation of the universe began does it sound plausible that God would say; I will create life and only grant salvation to those who will call themselves Christian?

In a way it sounds like God might need a greater purpose to create the universe. If God is truly just, loving, merciful and forgiving it sounds as if he might be searching for something greater than saving one faith group.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

thanks for your reply.
personally, i think there is much that is unknowable and i do not believe in heaven or hell. but what you wrote makes sense - i also can not conceive of god favouring one religion over another, but i know that most christians and muslims would disagree.

[snakelegs]

Hi snakelegs :)



Yes that is correct, there are many who will be punished first in hell, for as long as god believes they deserve (according to the magnitude of their sins), but eventually, they will enter paradise.

(note that it is not enough for a person to call himself a muslim- the minimum for a person to be considered a muslim is prayer)



The same applies in Islam, only muslims will enter paradise.

This is the islamic point of view- this is what God told us- no philosphy needed, no need to look for a deeper meaning... and it would be foolish to believe (as a muslim) otherwise because that would be like thinking that God is lying to us.

:)

so that, in islam - as in christianity - faith is more important than acts/deeds?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

faith upon deeds counts and how much you obey God.

[Malaikah]

i also can not conceive of god favouring one religion over another, but i know that most christians and muslims would disagree.

How can God not favour a certain religion that He Himself revealed? Its not like He went through all the known religions and choose the one that made most sense to Him....:rollseyes :?

so that, in islam - as in christianity - faith is more important than acts/deeds?

Religion is more than what people think it is- its more than just believing in God. Its a way of life. Everything in your life becomes based around this religion, and then you live life in the way God intended life to be lived.

When you choose not to follow the correct path, you are doing more than just not believing in God, you are allowing yourself to live a life stlye that God hates- you will do things that God has, with his wisdom, forbidden.

But when you choose the correct path, you can distance yourself from evil acts and increase in good acts.

You might think that a person can be good person without following the right path, by living a moral life etc... but thats not right. why? because morals have to be defined by somethng.. culture, religion or whatever, so what a non-muslim might see as a moral life style might actually be very moralless from an islamic perspective (which is definied by what God has taught us).

Even for muslims- deeds and acts mean something, you cant be a muslim by just saying that you believe in God and having no actions that are characteristic of a muslim.

[snakelegs]

How can God not favour a certain religion that He Himself revealed? Its not like He went through all the known religions and choose the one that made most sense to Him....:rollseyes :?

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok. :)

Religion is more than what people think it is- its more than just believing in God. Its a way of life. Everything in your life becomes based around this religion, and then you live life in the way God intended life to be lived.

When you choose not to follow the correct path, you are doing more than just not believing in God, you are allowing yourself to live a life stlye that God hates- you will do things that God has, with his wisdom, forbidden.

But when you choose the correct path, you can distance yourself from evil acts and increase in good acts.

You might think that a person can be good person without following the right path, by living a moral life etc... but thats not right. why? because morals have to be defined by somethng.. culture, religion or whatever, so what a non-muslim might see as a moral life style might actually be very moralless from an islamic perspective (which is definied by what God has taught us).

Even for muslims- deeds and acts mean something, you cant be a muslim by just saying that you believe in God and having no actions that are characteristic of a muslim.

i understand that islam is a complete way of life, (as is judaism btw). but a muslim can be a sinner, and as long as he hasn't practiced shirk or denied islam, he will still go to heaven, after spending some time in hell first. but the same is not true for a non-muslim, regardless of how he lives his life. in this case, it is like christianity, but i think islam places more importance on acts than christianity does.
personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

[Malaikah]

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok. :)

no, its makes sense i get where youre coming...

personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

it makes sense, but its just that we probably have a different understadning of what it means to live a moral life.

:)

[lolwatever]

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok. :)

That's such a cruel god that you believe in then, a god who doesn't care to even give us any guidelines for how to operate this massive planet with all its inhabitants :cry:

You'd be annoyed to buy a copy of windows (without any previous knowledge of it) n find that you don't get any manuals n that u only get the hang of it after 10 computer crashes wich costs u n arm and a leg to fix at the PC repair center.:heated:

Yet you're not bothered to learn that a system that was created for you (which is faaaaaar mroe advanced than a puny little software) comes with absolutely no guidelines wat so wever from the creator:offended: ? What sort of god is that? :uuh:

You might think you're intelligent enough to figure the rules for yourself, but how about when it comes to managing entire societies n civilisations and settng guidelines for international affairs?? You're intelligent enough to come up with your own rules, but other people are intelligent enough to come up with their own wims n desires too... so who puts an end to all the confusion and opinions? Isn't it that the creator of the universe has the most right to be listened and obeyed to? Considering he knows his creation more than anything or anyoen else?

i understand that islam is a complete way of life, (as is judaism btw). but a muslim can be a sinner, and as long as he hasn't practiced shirk or denied islam, he will still go to heaven, after spending some time in hell first. but the same is not true for a non-muslim, regardless of how he lives his life. in this case, it is like christianity, but i think islam places more importance on acts than christianity does.
personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

^ ill reply 2dat when i get bak :D

no offense intended btw... jsut thought there where some fundamental problems to be adressed with ur belief....

and let me say something, as Muslims... we don't believe, we KNOW.. it's more than just belief and resigning to the statement 'ah well, we believe this, u believe that.... no point arguin.. we'll leave it at that'....

Considering the degree of accuracy of our prophets predictions and advises (which caem thru revelation)... really.. it's beyond doubt that Islam is the true path to success in Allah's eyes.

and once again.. we're not playing god as some ppl like to accsue us.. we're jsut quoting straight out of his books :)

take care wish u all the best!

[snakelegs]

That's such a cruel god that you believe in then, a god who doesn't care to even give us any guidelines for how to operate this massive planet with all its inhabitants :cry:

You'd be annoyed to buy a copy of windows (without any previous knowledge of it) n find that you don't get any manuals n that u only get the hang of it after 10 computer crashes wich costs u n arm and a leg to fix at the PC repair center.:heated:

Yet you're not bothered to learn that a system that was created for you (which is faaaaaar mroe advanced than a puny little software) comes with absolutely no guidelines wat so wever from the creator:offended: ? What sort of god is that? :uuh:

You might think you're intelligent enough to figure the rules for yourself, but how about when it comes to managing entire societies n civilisations and settng guidelines for international affairs?? You're intelligent enough to come up with your own rules, but other people are intelligent enough to come up with their own wims n desires too... so who puts an end to all the confusion and opinions? Isn't it that the creator of the universe has the most right to be listened and obeyed to? Considering he knows his creation more than anything or anyoen else?


^ ill reply 2dat when i get bak :D

no offense intended btw... jsut thought there where some fundamental problems to be adressed with ur belief....

and let me say something, as Muslims... we don't believe, we KNOW.. it's more than just belief and resigning to the statement 'ah well, we believe this, u believe that.... no point arguin.. we'll leave it at that'....

Considering the degree of accuracy of our prophets predictions and advises (which caem thru revelation)... really.. it's beyond doubt that Islam is the true path to success in Allah's eyes.

and once again.. we're not playing god as some ppl like to accsue us.. we're jsut quoting straight out of his books :)

take care wish u all the best!

i've read your post and while i do not share your belief, i have no desire to argue about these things because i don't think i'm right and you're wrong or that my beliefs are superior to yours.

[lolwatever]

i've read your post and while i do not share your belief, i have no desire to argue about these things because i don't think i'm right and you're wrong or that my beliefs are superior to yours.

Well i put the proposition that God doesn't just accept believing in his existance... coz most ppl do (really whether u call urself agnostic or christian or jew or watever is irrelevent)...

n he didnt create us just to admit he exists, live like animals n just die n endup in a state of non-existance. There is a purpose to life....... To seek the truth n follow it n obey the creator, not just sit on the sidelines n think 'blah i'll just make up my own rules n live alogn accordingly....' --> das the casue for majority of the world's disasters (aids, economies gettin screwed , death, crime, suicide, rape.. u name it) :uuh:

Which brings up the question...... can one really lead a moral life without a proper religion :rollseyes (here we define religion as "defined way of life" which is the literal meaning of deen, Islam). Whilst pedophelia is immoral to you.. it seems perfectly moral to others (the loser who was locked up in finland i think last week for example), whilst takin ppls money thru interst is immoral to some... it's perfectly moral to many... so really... god decided to make everything in the universe follow pre-defined rules/laws except society :? :offended:

Surely you have reasons for not 'sharing my beliefs' as u put it...... or u just prefer to turn off ur thinkin cap :?

[- Qatada -]

i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but what defines moral? Is it culture, or your personal beliefs? The reason why i find this confusing is because different cultures have different morals, so something in india may be liked, yet detested within the US.

This is the reason why islaam has specific prohibitions, yet other things are permissible. This way, no matter what the culture - we all have certain limit's which we can't transgress against, then other things such as culture may take part (as long as the action isn't haraam/forbidden obviously.)



Look forward to your response. :)



Peace.

[snakelegs]

lolwatever and Fi_Sabilillah,
this thread has already gone off topic. i stuck my nose in here because i wanted a better understanding of hell in islam, which i think i got. and i did not mean to de-rail the the basic subject of this thread.
i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion. i would say that broadly speaking, i strive to be a decent human being and that you, (as well as people of other religions), and i probably share many of the basic moral code. my belief is that we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong and then as we grow and learn, we refine it by combining knowledge and common sense. i also have limits that i would not cross, no matter what culture i found myself in, just as you wouldn't.
some turn to religion for this guidance and there is nothing wrong with that.
it is just that i was not raised in a religion and have never felt a need for one.
i believe in one god, just as you do, and follow many of the same moral guidelines that you do, even tho i don't believe in heaven and hell. (i think this is almost incomprehensible to people who hold these beliefs).
i hope i have answered your questions. i am neither advocating these beliefs or arguing with yours.
so now, why don't we all have some love and hell in christianity? ;D

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion.

Just a short extract from James 1 talking about religion.

26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world

In the spirit of seeking justice for the poor

Eric

[- Qatada -]

Hi snakelegs.


I just want to point out that the majority of mankind believe that there is only one Creator, which obviously can only be Allaah - God. The difference is that a person has to worship Him Alone, before putting anything else before that i.e. their desires etc.

So according to islaam, believing in one Creator isn't sufficient, but worshipping Him Alone is the real part of faith. This is why islam is different to all other faiths, we worship the Creator - Allaah, not the creation.



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace & Eid Mubarak. :)

[lolwatever]

lolwatever and Fi_Sabilillah,
this thread has already gone off topic. i stuck my nose in here because i wanted a better understanding of hell in islam, which i think i got. and i did not mean to de-rail the the basic subject of this thread.

oops so tru :X

i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion. i would say that broadly speaking, i strive to be a decent human being and that you, (as well as people of other religions), and i probably share many of the basic moral code. my belief is that we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong and then as we grow and learn, we refine it by combining knowledge and common sense. i also have limits that i would not cross, no matter what culture i found myself in, just as you wouldn't.

Sounds like an idea for an interestin thread :D.... i'm gonna be on leave for a few weeks, how about we start a discussion about it some time then, or even now... but there'll be 2zillion posts by the time i come bak :(

some turn to religion for this guidance and there is nothing wrong with that.
it is just that i was not raised in a religion and have never felt a need for one.
i believe in one god, just as you do, and follow many of the same moral guidelines that you do, even tho i don't believe in heaven and hell. (i think this is almost incomprehensible to people who hold these beliefs).

just to point sumfn out, maybe i was misunderstood... morality was only a fraction of the reason, the bigger picture is that... wats the point of life? did god create us just to live n die without ne goal? It's not about whether u can lead a polite lifestyle or not, (im sure u can), but its about whether you obey God's rules.... alot of non Muslims are very well behaved n stuff... but that doesnt change nething, it just means that their relationship with ppl is really good, but their relationship with god... stinks.. coz they're jsut ignoring him n his commandments.

i hope i have answered your questions. i am neither advocating these beliefs or arguing with yours.
so now, why don't we all have some love and hell in christianity? ;D

yepp... sorry cheese 4 hijackin this thread :hiding:

ill startup another thread when im bak inshalah..... b gr8 if u could all join in :D - i just hope it doesnt go off topic :p -

[snakelegs]

Sounds like an idea for an interestin thread :D.... i'm gonna be on leave for a few weeks, how about we start a discussion about it some time then, or even now... but there'll be 2zillion posts by the time i come bak :(

with all due respect, i don't really see a whole lot of point in discussing these things at length. who cares what the anonymous entity called "snakelegs" believes? they are just my personal beliefs - nothing more.
i have no desire to defend them or to critiize any one else's.
enjoy your "on leave" time! i could use some of that myself.

[Tania]

with all due respect, i don't really see a whole lot of point in discussing these things at length. who cares what the anonymous entity called "snakelegs" believes? they are just my personal beliefs - nothing more.
i have no desire to defend them or to critiize any one else's.
enjoy your "on leave" time! i could use some of that myself.

I understand how are you thinking:)
The communist did the same thing when they tried to make moral people in the absence of religion.
Even myself i grew up without religious knowledge ( no religious lessons during the school, i got only few lessons before my first ) and i can say i have moral values. :-[ Now i try to learn about my religion :)