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Joe98
10-15-2006, 02:40 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...7-1702,00.html


I have copied half the article below. The second half of the article is a change of topic. If you want to read the second part you can but it is off-topic.

And yes I am an Australian.




AUSTRALIA is a Muslim nation, the head of Prime Minister John Howard's Muslim advisory board says.

Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.

Dr Ali said multiculturalism was Australia's destiny but Muslims, as latecomers, were being disadvantaged.

"We would like to remain in this country as citizens like anybody else, but with cultural individuality preserved," he said.

"We want an Australia which is like a fruit salad with a nice juice in it, not a mega fruit juice."

Before addressing a conference on national identity today, Dr Ali said Muslim values were practiced in Australia.

"When I go abroad, they ask me where do I come from? I say I come from a Muslim country," he said.

"Which country, they say. Australia.

"That's not a Muslim country. Yes it's Muslim country.

"For the value that my religion preaches, these people practice.

"So I see Islam here but the people may not be Muslims, but in other countries I see Muslims but not Islam.

"So when I come back to Australia, I've been told to respect Australian values and now I am confused, because I see no contradiction at all.

"Values are universal. Human values - there is no such thing as Australian values."

-
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Muezzin
10-15-2006, 06:21 PM
I see what he's getting at. Islam tells us to be good, polite, tolerant people. People can and do behave like this without being Muslim (which is good, people should treat each other with respect and kindness anyway, regardless of their way of life). I've never been to Australia though.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-15-2006, 06:24 PM
Good article :)
Reply

Woodrow
10-15-2006, 08:01 PM
Very nice article.
Reply

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ManchesterFolk
10-16-2006, 06:48 PM
Australia? How many Muslims are there in that part of the world?
Reply

north_malaysian
10-17-2006, 05:22 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Australia? How many Muslims are there in that part of the world?
Maybe you should read again that article.....:giggling: :giggling:

Nice article...
Reply

Malaikah
10-17-2006, 06:25 AM
:sl:

He forgot to mention:

Aussie values: promiscuity and hanging out at the pub.

"So I see Islam here but the people may not be Muslims, but in other countries I see Muslims but not Islam.
:uuh: :uuh: I didnt know promiscuity and beer was part of Islam.

Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Australia? How many Muslims are there in that part of the world?
There is a fair bit, but depends where you live. Some places have almost no Muslim populations but others have large enough populations to have multiple Muslim schools in the one region.
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Australia? How many Muslims are there in that part of the world?
Australia has about 20 million people over a very large land mass. As a nation state it is second only to Israel in cultural diversity, and second only to Canada in being sparsely populated. Also there has been an enourmously higher rate of intermarriage of persons of different ethnicity here than in almost all other places. We are all mixed up with one another well and truly.

The identifying Muslim population is approximately 2%. However there are still today people whom follow a traditional hunter gatherer lifestyle in which there exist oral histories well kept which include evidence of the arrival of Islam at the height of the Empire of Islam. A distinct division is made in time between stories from after new Law arrived to those stories from before then. Among the communities which still today uphold the tradition there is a division between those retaining Islam as an Aboriginal Australian tradition, and those whom are now Christian, but the Christians often actualise submission to the legal structure of Shari'ah, which is by far the stronger aspect of Indigenous culture.

Amid all of this there are only about five thousand modern Aboriginal reverts to Islam, in the form in which it has arrived in the modern context. The total identifying Aboriginal population is also approximately 2% of the total population. However if all persons of any Aboriginal ancestry are included then the total number of persons adhereing to Shari'ah could be more like 15% of the population. Most persons of Aboriginal ancestry are now white and, like the black population, have been stripped of all ancestral cultural regard by various means that arrived with the invasion begun in 1788. Those stories are equitable with what was perpetrated against the Jews, Romani, Socialists and others during the Holocaust. Still today Aboriginal persons live in conditions of being deprived basic need, and the Indigenous infant mortality rate was that of a third world country only fifteen years ago. Also, notably, there is a history of social institutions that arrived with the British actively preventing equitably relations between Muslims and Aboriginal Australians. I can research a reference to this if anybody would like to know more.

It is also a fact that there has been enacted a move to force the more difficult people within the Aboriginal community towards Islam; as a means of ensuring that they are being accounted for while many Aborigines are overly put upon in work to account for all other Australians. But thereby many persons in the Muslim community have only ever experienced the worst that has been among the Aboriginal community: while Aborigines are generally influenced, in that same manner as anybody else has been, by the media portraying Islam wrongly.

Yet the basic durablity of the accountiblity of Shari'ah is versatile enough to be able to dominate. Though it must be added that there are many here also whom shirk; and more who shirk than in most Nations.

I should add in respect of the article about Dr Ali, since there is a link to it; that I have in an e-mail a copy of a letter he sent out to the whole Australian Muslim community in response to the situation of what he has been reported as writing. The letter outlines a situation that is mentioned in the whole article but is not that matter mentioned in the actual thread. Dr Ali had defended himself in detailing that in his academic work he was writing about the Muslim experience of the Prophet Mohammed as of two distinct natures, that of a Prophet whose words we are obligated to believe, and distinctly that of a Man whose Human behaviour is a model for other Men. I do not know the full context of the words of Dr Ali that he states as having been misquoted.

However, I am glad here to learn that among all that he has told he has also described Australia as a place in which Islam can readily exist.

Truly I my self get about in modern Australian culture, now having become Muslim, without much alteration to my earlier pattern, and while sustaining Islam. But I should tell also that the cultural internal Jihad taking place for all of us whom could be regarded as either Muslim or potentially soon enough a Muslim revert, is that of opposing Gog and Magog. That goes for all of us, regardless of the many interdivisions among the community of persons whom I have described. The shaytan here are so naughty, but in that they are becoming able to openly identify as shaytan, within their own method of expression which Australian culture is long now adapted to communicating with. As shaytan are enabled to self identify they settle down against Gog and Magog. This requires a cultural pattern in which embarrasment is both the cruelest weapon and the demolition of pride is accepted as an act of love. Mainstream culture calls it the "tall poppy syndrome"; that is to say, there are no tall poppies here. Any person whom is an acheiver is not enabled to acquire any large fame, credibilty and wealth. That is basic in the process of Australian aculturation. Dear old Steve Irwin was known for making a joke about near on feeding his own new born son to a crocodile and for getting too friendly with whales; rather than in the truth of his life story in which the University of Queensland were about to award him with an honourary Professorship for his voluntary contributions to teaching that he gave along with vast sums of money to academic research and for Government purchases of land that belong now to the whole Australian community. The imagery of his death is already being experienced by many persons in dreams and Prayer as the means of accepting their own account in Allah.

But that is really all I can tell since I am not at all certain about what the experience of a Muslim immigrant to Australia is. But I don't mind telling that when I am getting about on local trains barefoot in Hijab the young people often ask me if I really am a Muslim, and are truly curious and full of questions. Australians tend not to start up any communication with anybody until their weakness is exposed. So if I am not barefoot then my clothes might look oddly matched or something else which enables ordinary Australians to perceive that I am also an ordinary Australian and not one of those scary Muslim ladies. But I am always the odd person out, because Aborigine Kinship regards me as more aligned with the Ummah of Islam, and Muslims regard me as too much aligned with Aboriginal Kinship, while the local Christian Churches regard me as badly as any person could ever regard anybody. But here in Australia we always put a friendly face upon the situation; and often enough are getting a sneaking suspicion that when we are behaving badly it is only because we are racing each other to the end of the story to find out what the real manifestation of the Prophesies will be like. In a sort of "come on, lets get it over and done with" type of attitude to the fear of Jahannam. Or else maybe its just that we are all weirdos. (all too used to using our hatred to account for our social worth?) [nah it just that we are all already got being Moslem internally but ain't got any outside Islamic self]

truly actually Dr Ali's comments surprise me a bit; but also I just want to add:

It's about bl**dy time! (not about hair but about Hijab?)

(I should stop here before you all start wondering whose nose my finger has been up)

wasalam
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by cheese

Aussie values: promiscuity and hanging out at the pub.

:uuh: :uuh: I didnt know promiscuity and beer was part of Islam.
The Australian read upon promiscuity and hanging out at the pub is "gee they're really asking for it aren't they?" To which the promiscuous and the drunks generally concurr. So it is a pity about all the nazis we've been harbouring who caused too many disputes among us for us to realise that many of our ancestors were already Muslim in 1788. -on my mother's side, but on my father's side are Jew-


And there are more than ten and less than twenty Mosques local to me, but I count local as the whole of Brisbane, Ipswich, Sunshine and Gold Coasts. There is one Muslim school for children and there is a volunteer Religious Education programme by which a group of Muslims, including me, are trained in the Mosque to go into local schools as volunteers and provide Religious education to the Muslim school children. There are Mosque aligned with more than one Madhab.

Where I live there are many Christians of many different denominations including the Vietnamese Uniting Church congregation being the closest, the nearest Mosque is an hours walk away, and there are a few Buddhist temples closer. And plenty of places of false worship; but the public libraries provide free internet service. But somehow, my Indigenous ancestry compels me to note that the most important fact about where I live is that I saw a little marsupial hopping mouse.

wasalam
Reply

Malaikah
10-17-2006, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by Curaezipirid
The Australian read upon promiscuity and hanging out at the pub is "gee they're really asking for it aren't they?" To which the promiscuous and the drunks generally concurr. So it is a pity about all the nazis we've been harbouring who caused too many disputes among us for us to realise that many of our ancestors were already Muslim in 1788. -on my mother's side, but on my father's side are Jew-
:sl:

huh? exaclty what are you talking about sis and what does it have to do with my post? :?
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 02:43 PM
Well I am not telling that promiscuity and beer are in any way connected with Islam: except in being mentioned as Haram behaviour; and certainly confirming that many Aussies engage in much to much Haram behaviour.

But I am making the point that Aussies are, in general, far more conditioned to accept the consequence of such behaviour in Allah than many other folk whom engage is such behaviour.

It's a bit sickening, really. Yet what we perceive in every public place here. Aussies out and about and sort of rubbing each others noses in knowing that we are going to hell.

Praise Isa and His example in Allah. We seem to fear our selves less than other cultures and so just show out more what our faults are. Sort of as begging to be held to account. Well really, more or less, exactly begging. But you gotta be careful of us since we play at the game of showing what we know already to tempt others to reveal their own fault. There is a cultural precedent of everybody engaging in faking being shaytan.

But, apart from that, Dr Ameer Ali really has made a great service to every Muslim in Australia with his exposing himself to the Australian media. The fact that he has so exposed himself will go a very long way towards making Australians more curious and investigative of Islam.

wasalam
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 02:52 PM
hang on, let me put the situation more precisely: it is that many Australians are actually already conscious of the fact that we are, as a nation, all sort of walking into the Prophesies and are witnessing the causes of Armageddon etc: but that is sort of OK with most of us; since we are already conditioned/tempered to witness, and somewhat biologically inclined, (those of Aboriginal ancestry) to just accept the situation with a "well, it might as well be us who go to hell first since we seem to be the bad guys in the story" sort of an attitude to life. Like I put it, we are all already in Isa; and this is a fact that was not lost to the true believers among the convicts and others whom arrived with the English invasion. Nor to the many shaytan, whom began arriving only briefly before the first fleet of English, and whom are still arriving, and whom have been forcing us to swallow for too long. But as luck would have it, in our indigenous culture there is a process for turning shaytan into ants if they try to escape their feathers.

wasalam
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 09:11 PM
uh oh, this is another thread that already has too many post in it by me: or so it might seem to a diligent reader who has no real interest.


I have sat and tried not to post the material that I am pasted into this post. I did not want to. But there was something being mentioned in connection with the debate around Hjiab in England which caused me to notice that the English Muslim community may well not be available for the sort of Hijab debate that we Australians are aligning to fight out in our minds if never by any other means. So perhaps best that I expose what others conceal:

This is all I know about the debate around what Dr Ameer Ali has been engaging in communicating, and that I know from what I received recently as a part of the local e-mail news bulletin service. This particular service is more likely to sent out e-mails only telling that another person has embraced Islam, (all of one apparently). Also I might recommend that readers do not read all of the following material, but just peruse it until you get the gist of it: especially since is stirs anger. But in that I know that I could readily be faulted for not recommending that you thoroughly examine the material evidence rather than just getting any gist. Regardless, this was what I received that had made me so happy to see the article Joe98 posted.


>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Action Against Ameer Ali - URGENT CALL
>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:10:29 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
>Below are the comments / feedback received so far regarding the suggestion I put forward in the earlier email. What I have suggested earlier is not the only way to resolve this, but we will do what we can inshaAllah. While others should do what they can and we are aware that some organisations have already started acting.
>
>Muslim organisations and individuals are requested to respond to the question below:
>Do you agree that we should pursue this matter to make sure that Ameer Ali retracts his statements and agrees not to commit such a mistage again? YES / NO
>
>
>SUGGESTION to NON-WA Muslims:
>Looks like in the past 4 yrs, Ameer Ali was using his Presidency of AFIC to be in the media lime light. And now that he is not the President of AFIC, he seems to be using his Chairmanship of PM's Advisory Council to be in the lime light. Therefore to get him off this position will be a huge relief for the Australian Muslims inshaAllah. From Perth / WA he is the only member on the advisory council. Therefore I call upon non-WA Muslims to do what you can (in person or phone / email / fax / post) to raise your concerns with the other 13 members of the PM's advisory council, so that they in turn take this matter up with PM or the concerned minister. I believe there are other members in this advisory council who are more worthy of the Chair inshaAllah.
>
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf
>Perth.
>===================
>Assalaamu 'Alaikum All.
>
>We should not let this matter cool off, but we should this time pursue Dr Amir Ali and make sure he retracts these statements.....
>
>Nazim
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I don't trust Ameer either. If he is serious about what he is saying now in his "secret letter to Muslims, he should do what you have suggested and demand an APOLOGY from the Australian newspaper. He could threaten suing for defamation/damages (if it is true). Having held Muslim leadership positions for ages is this country, is Ameer fooling himself by thinking that we don't know that this is not his first interview with the media in this country. In my view, his letter is an insult to us. I believe not Ameer.
>
>Salifu
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>yeah that will all be ideal, indeed like the poor guy didn't know he will be misquoted,even the village idiot knows how much Rasoolullah alayhis salam is envyed and hated.May Allah protect the integraty of our beloved rasoolullah sallalahu alaihi wasalaam.
>
>Huda
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I noticed that one of most important things was not touched upon by Ameer Ali in his response, that is, he did not correct the words "Islamic Scholar" as he was reffered to in the media, as he is not one. He does not have any degree or credential in Islamic Studies, since he has credetial only in Economics. Hence, he was not supposed even to write any article on Islam at all. So he should have been referred to as "Secular scholar" or "Secular Muslim scholar." And this he must tell the media as well.
>
>Qualified & EXperienced Imam
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It is not an easy to task to get anything published on the first page or even the first few pages of any newspaper. The newspapers are privately owned, and I imagine it was someone's goal to cause dissention within the Muslim community by this article. I do no think they would publish this letter in any section of the newspaper.
>
>Ahmed
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I hope that you and your family are in the best state of health and Iman; may Allah swt reward you for your time and efforts.
>
>I went through the 1st few lines of Ameer's letter; the style of yak yak and the smell of compulsive lying is all over it. Please brother we don't have to hear from him again.
>
>Jazak Allah khairan, wa Salam
>
>Alaa
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>General Response
>
>One thing must have been observed by now by all thinking Muslims is that
>'The Australian' is a newspaper of Hate against Muslims and Islam in
>general.
>
>If the newspaper is scanned for anti-Islamic articles one will find that
>vitriolic articles written by likes of such as Dure, Sheridan etc with
>purported credentials but undeniable hatred appears day after day. On some
>days as high as ten articles deriding Muslims has appeared.
>
>I used to be an avid reader of Australian over 20 years but in the last 24
>months the unashamed vitriol including the editorial against Muslims has
>been in force. The thing is that most articles would fall in the hate
>promotion category.
>
>So in view of such unmistakable observation when the likes of Ameer Ali
>decide to give interview to the Australian, it is the height of stupidity.
>
>So don't scream misquoted etc. This is one simple and most significant
>element of leadership quality which is absent.. 'intellectual foresight'.
>
>Sheik Taj. Has spoken out. so what.. just fuels the non argument and
>ammunition for the Australian.
>
>The inability of the so called leadership to articulate and enunciate,
>therefore, inability to communicate is borders on criminal.
>
>So it falls to the blubbering uneducated intellectuals to inflict the damage
>on Muslims.
>
>I am ashamed every time the likes of Sh. Taj and Ameer Ali open their mouth
>in the national media.
>
>M. Ali
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I could agree with your comment on the basis of asking why issues on Islam, especially our Prophet needs to end up in the newspaper in the first place.
>Many feel that Muslim concerns are not suitable for publication in the reporting media.
>In one of my emails I mentioned that a Ameer Ali should keep his mouth shut especially to people of the press, even if that seems to be difficult for him.
>
>Generally a journalist in Australia is hunting for a story. Australia is a very poor hunting-ground, with hot stories far and not easy to come by.
>This is why there is so much garbage going around in the press, including pussy-cats rescued from power-poles, making head-news for the 99th time.
>If the information he / she receives is controversial enough, the better it is for publication.
>
>It's in the nature of the beast.
> People are not interested to read or watch boring stuff and the media are giving it to them.
>Not many care if 60 thousand people die each day of hunger, but one little boy out of West Papua being on the cooking menu by his tribe that thought
>he represented evil almost got out of hand, when Indonesia got a tip off and arrested an Australian camera crew and sent them home on the next flight.
>
>I am saying to you brother: "Nobody is calling Ameer Ali on the phone, or visiting him in the intention to revert to Islam, hence learning about it"!
>Let that be a fact and the basis of our understanding, dealing with the journalists.
>
>So what else could it be but sniffing for information that can be sensationalised?
>Again, Ameer should be by now smart enough to work that one out for himself.
>I mentioned to you Muhammad how easy it is to fall into this trap.
>Exceptions do exist and we both know about one person working for the Sunday Times here in Perth.
>There are some people you can talk with and are sensible, responsible.....
>
>Axel
>==================
>
>At 10:22 PM 10/7/2006, you wrote:
>
> Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
> Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
> This is in regards to Ameer Ali's response below.
>
> Some might wonder why I am so critical about Ameer Ali. For your information this is after observing him closely for years.
>
> In my opinion, as far as serving the purpose of his masters is concerned, the job is done. And now this sort of private letters to the Muslim community are expected from Ameer Ali. If Ameer Ali is sincerely regretting what has happened then this issue can be fixed/resolved inshaAllah. I suggest the following:
>
> 1. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published on the front page of 'The Australian' newspaper. He should be able to do that due to his links with the PM and others. OR
>
> 2. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if he has to pay for it. OR
>
> 3. The Australian Muslim Community should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if we have to pay for it. I personally will be more than happy to contribute inshaAllah.
>
> Wassalam
> Muhammad Altaf.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ..
> To: The Muslim Council of NSW Inc.
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:42 PM
> Subject: MISREPRESENTED BY JOURNALISTS - DR AMEER ALI
>
> ------ Original Message -------
>
> From:"Ameer Ali"
>
> Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2006 6:53 pm
>
> -------------------------------
>
> To the Chairmen and Members of Islamic Councils/Societies.
>
> Assalamu alaikum
>
> It is with deep regret that I am writing this letter to explain to your members about the ugly reporting about the Holy Prophet in The Australian newspaper. I can understand the anger that this has created in the minds of all Muslims including myself. I was shocked at the headline above the photograph which said "Prophet not perfect" which was a deliberate act of mischief by the publishers.
>
> I was completing a research article for an academic journal about why some
>
> Muslims behave violently when someone says, writes or draws something which is blasphemous in the eyes of the Muslims. As I was completing the article, I received a call from a journalist who was asking about recent developments in the community. I told him that I had nothing to report, but that at the moment I was writing this piece for a journal. He showed his interest in the topic, and said he would be very much interested in reading it. I said it was only the first draft and that it had to be read by my colleagues for suggestions and criticisms, so I gave him access to only some parts of the paper on the understanding that he will not quote any part without my permission. After he read the article he called me again to discuss some of the points. One point he raised was about my views on the Prophet and my explanation as to why some followers of Islam follow the physical aspects of the Prophet's life more than his preaching. In a long discussion, I explained to him that there are two dimensions to the Prophet's life; a human dimension and a prophetic dimension. The human dimension is the model of reality while the prophetic dimension is a model for reality. This is the point I was trying to explain. I alluded to the incident about the blind man who came to visit the Prophet and was ignored by him because the Prophet was engaged with other matters. Later, Allah rebuked the Prophet for this behaviour. I said that this was a manifestation of the human element of the Prophet which was later corrected by Allah. And I said humans are fallible, and only Allah is infallible. If we ignore the human dimension of the Prophet, we are in danger of elevating him as equal to Allah in terms of infallibility, which is shirk. It is in this context that the word "flaw" crept in and the journalist took that word out of the whole conversation and gave prominence to it in his reporting. This was mischievious. After this, when I saw the report in the paper, I immediately realised how the public is going to react and particularly the Mufti. Before I could get in touch with the Mufti, the journalist was quick to get in touch with him first and get his reaction. Naturally, like any religious leader would react, the Mufti gave his response as was published in the paper. After I explained things to the Mufti, he contacted the newspaper and asked them to withdraw his comments but it was too late. The damage had been done.
>
> The whole episode should be a lesson for all Muslims to be careful when
>
> discussing anything on religion with journalists, especially in this country. I hope you will understand that I only had sincere intentions, and was an unwitting victim of unscrupulous media reporting.
>
> I hope you will circulate this letter to your members.
>
> Yours Brotherly,
>
> Dr Ameer Ali
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please Note:
> ************************
> This is a non-commercial message.
> *************************
> To unsubscribe, send a message to
> info@islam-australia.net with Unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
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>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Fw: Ameer Ali's response to the article about his views on the Prophet (SAW)
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 22:22:27 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
>This is in regards to Ameer Ali's response below.
>
>Some might wonder why I am so critical about Ameer Ali. For your information this is after observing him closely for years.
>
>In my opinion, as far as serving the purpose of his masters is concerned, the job is done. And now this sort of private letters to the Muslim community are expected from Ameer Ali. If Ameer Ali is sincerely regretting what has happened then this issue can be fixed/resolved inshaAllah. I suggest the following:
>
>1. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published on the front page of 'The Australian' newspaper. He should be able to do that due to his links with the PM and others. OR
>
>2. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if he has to pay for it. OR
>
>3. The Australian Muslim Community should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if we have to pay for it. I personally will be more than happy to contribute inshaAllah.
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ismail Moola
>To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
>Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:08 AM
>Subject: Ameer Ali's response to the article about his views on the Prophet (SAW)
>
>
>From the response below it looks very much like Dr Ameer Ali was misinterpreted by the journalist. Just shows how important it is for us in our responses to the media.
>For thos of you who have not read the article here is the shortcut to it. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...34-421,00.html
>
>Was Salaam,
>Ismail
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ..
>To: The Muslim Council of NSW Inc.
>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:42 PM
>Subject: MISREPRESENTED BY JOURNALISTS - DR AMEER ALI
>
>
>------ Original Message -------
>
>
>From:"Ameer Ali"
>
>Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2006 6:53 pm
>
>-------------------------------
>
>To the Chairmen and Members of Islamic Councils/Societies.
>
>
>Assalamu alaikum
>
>
>It is with deep regret that I am writing this letter to explain to your members about the ugly reporting about the Holy Prophet in The Australian newspaper. I can understand the anger that this has created in the minds of all Muslims including myself. I was shocked at the headline above the photograph which said "Prophet not perfect" which was a deliberate act of mischief by the publishers.
>
>
>I was completing a research article for an academic journal about why some
>
>Muslims behave violently when someone says, writes or draws something which is blasphemous in the eyes of the Muslims. As I was completing the article, I received a call from a journalist who was asking about recent developments in the community. I told him that I had nothing to report, but that at the moment I was writing this piece for a journal. He showed his interest in the topic, and said he would be very much interested in reading it. I said it was only the first draft and that it had to be read by my colleagues for suggestions and criticisms, so I gave him access to only some parts of the paper on the understanding that he will not quote any part without my permission. After he read the article he called me again to discuss some of the points. One point he raised was about my views on the Prophet and my explanation as to why some followers of Islam follow the physical aspects of the Prophet's life more than his preaching. In a long discussion, I explained to him that there are two dimensions to the Prophet's life; a human dimension and a prophetic dimension. The human dimension is the model of reality while the prophetic dimension is a model for reality. This is the point I was trying to explain. I alluded to the incident about the blind man who came to visit the Prophet and was ignored by him because the Prophet was engaged with other matters. Later, Allah rebuked the Prophet for this behaviour. I said that this was a manifestation of the human element of the Prophet which was later corrected by Allah. And I said humans are fallible, and only Allah is infallible. If we ignore the human dimension of the Prophet, we are in danger of elevating him as equal to Allah in terms of infallibility, which is shirk. It is in this context that the word "flaw" crept in and the journalist took that word out of the whole conversation and gave prominence to it in his reporting. This was mischievious. After this, when I saw the report in the paper, I immediately realised how the public is going to react and particularly the Mufti. Before I could get in touch with the Mufti, the journalist was quick to get in touch with him first and get his reaction. Naturally, like any religious leader would react, the Mufti gave his response as was published in the paper. After I explained things to the Mufti, he contacted the newspaper and asked them to withdraw his comments but it was too late. The damage had been done.
>
>
>The whole episode should be a lesson for all Muslims to be careful when
>
>discussing anything on religion with journalists, especially in this country. I hope you will understand that I only had sincere intentions, and was an unwitting victim of unscrupulous media reporting.
>
>
>I hope you will circulate this letter to your members.
>
>
>Yours Brotherly,
>
>Dr Ameer Ali
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Please Note:
>************************
>This is a non-commercial message.
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>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Sh. Taj al-Hilali's response to Ameer Ali
>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:02:23 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>I have only taken Sh. Taj's comments from the article in The Australian, not bothering about every Tom, Dick and Harry. For complete article you can go to their website anyway.
>
>I am glad that Sh. Taj has spoken out. May Allah bless him.
>
>PLEASE NOTE:
>Muslims should not accept if Ameer Ali says things like "I was mis-quoted..." or "I didn't mean that...' and so on because this is not the first time he gave interviews to the media and should have figured out by now that he will be mis-quoted. Therefore he should not have given the interview in the first place and should have followed the Islamic teaching "If you open your mouth say something good or keep your mouth shut".
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf.
>Muslim cleric calls for ban
>Richard Kerbaj
>
>October 05, 2006
>
>AUSTRALIA'S most senior Islamic cleric has called for a Muslim leader to be ostracised over comments about the prophet Mohammed that he likened to Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses.
>Taj Din al-Hilali yesterday accused the chairman of John Howard's Islamic reference board, Ameer Ali, of selling out his religion to gain the support and financial backing of Muslim critics.
>
>Dr Ali said in The Australian yesterday that Mohammed had flaws, and criticised Muslims who blindly followed the faith and failed to question the veracity of the Koran.
>
>Sheik Hilali, the head of Lakemba Mosque in Sydney's southwest, said Dr Ali's "defamatory" remarks were akin to those that in 1989 earned Rushdie a fatwa from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini.
>
>While Sheik Hilali backed Dr Ali's call for a reinterpretation of the Koran to fit modern times, he condemned his "dangerous" and "ignorant" comments about the prophet.
>
>"We forbid such statements, from both Ameer Ali and anyone who has encouraged him to say what he said," Sheik Hilali said in an interview conducted in Arabic.
>
>"We refuse to have him stand with us at any religious ceremony from now on, unless he revokes what he said about the faith and the prophet."
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Prophet not perfect, says Islamic scholar
>Richard Kerbaj
>
>October 04, 2006
>
>
>
> Muslim minds 'closed': Ameer Ali, doctor of economics at Murdoch University in Perth, says the Koran must not be read literally but reinterpreted for today. Picture: Colin Murty
>
>
>A LEADING adviser on Islam, Ameer Ali, has attacked Muslims who "blindly" follow their faith and fail to question the veracity of the Koran, saying that even Mohammed had "flaws".
>The chairman of John Howard's Muslim advisory board yesterday warned that Islamists would continue to breed jihadis unless the Koran was "reinterpreted" for today's society.
>
>He also said mosques were increasingly being used by imams to deliver sermons that were not open to discussion.
>
>Dr Ali said the majority of Muslim clerics had for centuries imposed a "literalist" teaching of Islam, telling their followers that deviating from the written message would ultimately lead to their admission into hell.
>
>"The times are changing and with the change of times, you also have to reinterpret the Koran," he told The Australian.
>
>"Because if you believe that it's a book for all the times and all the nations, then that book must be yielding new meanings.
>
>"There are verses about slavery, and the Koran says you must be kind to the slaves. So are the Muslims saying we must have slavery to be kind?
>
>"The jihadists are interpreting the Koran literally and that's the problem ... Popular Muslims, because of their lack of knowledge about religion, are vulnerable to these sort of teachings."
>
>Dr Ali, who is writing an academic paper entitled "Closing of the Muslim Mind", said even Mohammed was not the "perfect model" as most Muslims believed. Asked if the prophet had character flaws, he said: "Of course - you must look at him as a human being also."
>
>His call for moderation comes 11 days into Ramadan, the holy month that requires Muslims to fast, give to charity and become more spiritually accountable.
>
>His comments came as a French philosophy teacher was forced into hiding after describing the Mohammed as a ruthless warlord and mass murderer. Robert Redeker has been under police protection, moving between secret addresses, since threats against him appeared on Islamist websites last week. His home address was published with calls to murder.
>
>Dr Ali criticised community members for playing victim when Muslims reacted violently against criticism, as after the publication of the Danish cartoons and the recent comments by the Pope.
>
>He said it was time for Muslims to "confront this challenge head-on and look critically at their behaviour and mode of response to alleged blasphemy".
>
>Dr Ali called for Hezbollah to be removed from the Government's terror organisations list two months ago, saying they were freedom fighters defending their country against Israeli invasion.
>
>The former president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils said there were sections of the Koran that were relevant to "everybody at every time".
>
>But he said people needed to read into the scripture and not merely accept it as the final word.
>
>Dr Ali - who heads the Muslim Community Reference Group set up last year following the London bombings to improve communication channels between the federal Government and Australia's 300,000 Muslims - labelled the idea of going to hell for questioning the Koran a "load of rubbish".
>
>"Because we cannot decide who's going to go to hell and who's going to go to heaven - that's left to the creator," he said.
>
>Dr Ali criticised Muslims who react violently towards any depictions of Mohammed while aspiring to emulate his ways.
>
>"True, Islam prohibits any drawing or a statue to be carved out representing the figure of the prophet. Still, it has not prevented the Muslims from imitating the physical features of Mohammed," he said.
>
>Dr Ali said it was "ridiculous" that some Muslims believed God would judge them on the "length of (their) beard". He said Muslims would be judged on their "character, their knowledge, their contribution to society".
>
>He said young Muslim Australians were slowly becoming more inquisitive about their faith. "Therefore they are going to ask questions when they grow up and that's a healthy trend," he said.
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Please Note:
>************************
>This is a non-commercial message.
>*************************
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>info@islam-australia.net with Unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>To subscribe, send a message to
>info@islam-australia.net with Subscribe in the subject line.
>
><< image001.jpg >>


The stuff being pumped through e-mails finishes there for now at least. My hope in exposing this sort of dialogue is to furnish Dr. Ameer Ali with his due respect from overseas Muslims. You must know that he has really stuck his neck out to have made the statement that Australia has the feeling of a Muslim country. The voices in the country that support the Indigenous Islam are being systematically silenced; and the Muslim community is not innocent in this fact. I will my self be keeping a mind towards Dr Ali's work to ensure that "a fair go" for all Australians, means a fair go in receiving an Islamic education also. The harsh reality here is that the mainstream community is being kept totally ignorant of real Islamic teaching, but often enough witnessing in mainstream media noted arguments that receive publicity only to serve the purpose of a political game within the Muslim community; so in general Australian have been dismissive of Islam altogether. But that aligns with the fact that organised crime has not been dismissing Islam. Many believe that it was a group of criminals with links to Muslims whom set up the dodgy loan which brought down the closer-to-socialist-than-any-other-western-secular-type-democracy-nation-state ever voted in Whitlam Governement. That is a big issue to this day. Everybody then living remembers. There were fights in primary school playgrounds over the matter. It happens that I have met two out of three of the actual persons who manifested the set up and can verify two pieces of circumstantial evidence suggesting that the whole insult to our stature as an Indigenous people could well have aligned itself with an Islam.

I hope that the international community of Moslems will be able to accept that many of my own posts in internet forums are being made within a framework of a rapid adjustment to what many of us have been too long in the dark about; simply because of the quality of Muslim experience that is being embarked upon here. The best and the worst seem to have arrived upon our shores: and often hand in hand. Sort of like us Aussies already had been in many ways. A Gog and Magog type warfare. I my self am already so well disliked among the local Muslim community that almost nothing could worsen the situation; so probably best that it is me who points the bone.

The Australian Muslim Community in general does itself an immense disservice by rabid ignorance of what thier own portrayal of Islam has been in the media. If I have copies of these e-mails the you can be sure that the journalists whom misreported anyone in the first place also have them. So why is Dr Ameer Ali being discredited within the Muslim community?

I suspect my own suspicious nature, so shall tell no more.

mu'asalam
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-17-2006, 10:25 PM
WOW long post...lol
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-18-2006, 12:55 AM
your signature has cheered me up considerably already Tayyaba and salam alaikum to your clarity wasalam
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-18-2006, 01:22 AM
really? lol
thats good :)
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-18-2006, 03:13 AM
That the last day will not come until every Home on Earth has endured the passage of certainty in Islam is a clarity undoubted in Allah.

Choice of the word Home is essential therein.
What is it that is told of the home of birds?

While every effort to delay that inevitable moment is already long past proven to ensure that the moment reaches those whom are seeking it without those whom try to delay their own hour knowing.

A part of the full picture of what is happening to Australians in this time; and with so many shaytan among us, is in connection with the fact that shaytan experience the hour as a markedly different phenomenon to Humans. But that belongs in another thread.

salam
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-18-2006, 03:25 AM
Yeap. I took it as meaning that everyone will come to know of Islam. Now look, they have lol. Your right, another thread :)

Salaamz
Reply

Curaezipirid
10-28-2006, 03:55 AM
waram

I have a new addition to this thread since I might seem to have put my foot into a matter in repsect of the other Muslim Cleric in Australia now also in the news. Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali progressed the public debate in the direction of having described a woman out of Hijab liken to uncovered meat.

Now, since I support Dr Ameer Ali's stance that Australia feels Muslim; and I have now also supported Sheik Taj al-Hilal; I should explain.

We Aussies sort of take that regard for one another in general, but usually find no need to express it. The fact is that the Sheik had before said such but this time the Australian media ganged up on him; and in fact, it might have been in response to Dr Ameer Ali's assertion. That is, the media might have been actively trying to portray that Dr Ali could not be correct. But the media are the meat aren't they? Portionally now dutifully being feed to the Sheik, whom unreservedly apologised. I don't mind wearing his reputation for calling Australia a meat market. I don't mind one little bit, especially in having sourced a cause of our uncoverage at this time. Well, that is to say I am in mind of already so as to be able not to mind.

The issue with meat is to accord that the right sort is fed to the right hunter of. Australia had no carnivorous mammals left excepting the recent immigrant of the dog, for a very good reason. Once you can not escape the self regard of being potentially only yourself a walking talking meat market; why then, you get seriously self disciplined, don't you? And tend to be inclined not to accuse anybody. Which is exactly why Australia feels Muslim.

waram
Reply

Curaezipirid
11-29-2006, 11:19 AM
I have just been looking at the Muslim Village forums thread about Sheik Hilali and thought about the difference in English usage between that site and many other Muslim web sites.

The way in which the Sydney Muslim community communicate in English is really very Australian by comparison to other English language Muslim web sites.

I want to mention this here only to highlight the large extent to which land actually is causal to culture. Are there specific geological or weather similarities between Australia and many Muslim nations in the middle east, which might be worth evaluating?

This question has relevance in sharing things like plant species as well as culture.

wara,
Reply

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