uh oh, this is another thread that already has too many post in it by me: or so it might seem to a diligent reader who has no real interest.
I have sat and tried not to post the material that I am pasted into this post. I did not want to. But there was something being mentioned in connection with the debate around Hjiab in England which caused me to notice that the English Muslim community may well not be available for the sort of Hijab debate that we Australians are aligning to fight out in our minds if never by any other means. So perhaps best that I expose what others conceal:
This is all I know about the debate around what Dr Ameer Ali has been engaging in communicating, and that I know from what I received recently as a part of the local e-mail news bulletin service. This particular service is more likely to sent out e-mails only telling that another person has embraced Islam, (all of one apparently). Also I might recommend that readers do not read all of the following material, but just peruse it until you get the gist of it: especially since is stirs anger. But in that I know that I could readily be faulted for not recommending that you thoroughly examine the material evidence rather than just getting any gist. Regardless, this was what I received that had made me so happy to see the article Joe98 posted.
>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Action Against Ameer Ali - URGENT CALL
>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:10:29 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
>Below are the comments / feedback received so far regarding the suggestion I put forward in the earlier email. What I have suggested earlier is not the only way to resolve this, but we will do what we can inshaAllah. While others should do what they can and we are aware that some organisations have already started acting.
>
>Muslim organisations and individuals are requested to respond to the question below:
>Do you agree that we should pursue this matter to make sure that Ameer Ali retracts his statements and agrees not to commit such a mistage again? YES / NO
>
>
>SUGGESTION to NON-WA Muslims:
>Looks like in the past 4 yrs, Ameer Ali was using his Presidency of AFIC to be in the media lime light. And now that he is not the President of AFIC, he seems to be using his Chairmanship of PM's Advisory Council to be in the lime light. Therefore to get him off this position will be a huge relief for the Australian Muslims inshaAllah. From Perth / WA he is the only member on the advisory council. Therefore I call upon non-WA Muslims to do what you can (in person or phone / email / fax / post) to raise your concerns with the other 13 members of the PM's advisory council, so that they in turn take this matter up with PM or the concerned minister. I believe there are other members in this advisory council who are more worthy of the Chair inshaAllah.
>
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf
>Perth.
>===================
>Assalaamu 'Alaikum All.
>
>We should not let this matter cool off, but we should this time pursue Dr Amir Ali and make sure he retracts these statements.....
>
>Nazim
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I don't trust Ameer either. If he is serious about what he is saying now in his "secret letter to Muslims, he should do what you have suggested and demand an APOLOGY from the Australian newspaper. He could threaten suing for defamation/damages (if it is true). Having held Muslim leadership positions for ages is this country, is Ameer fooling himself by thinking that we don't know that this is not his first interview with the media in this country. In my view, his letter is an insult to us. I believe not Ameer.
>
>Salifu
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>yeah that will all be ideal, indeed like the poor guy didn't know he will be misquoted,even the village idiot knows how much Rasoolullah alayhis salam is envyed and hated.May Allah protect the integraty of our beloved rasoolullah sallalahu alaihi wasalaam.
>
>Huda
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I noticed that one of most important things was not touched upon by Ameer Ali in his response, that is, he did not correct the words "Islamic Scholar" as he was reffered to in the media, as he is not one. He does not have any degree or credential in Islamic Studies, since he has credetial only in Economics. Hence, he was not supposed even to write any article on Islam at all. So he should have been referred to as "Secular scholar" or "Secular Muslim scholar." And this he must tell the media as well.
>
>Qualified & EXperienced Imam
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It is not an easy to task to get anything published on the first page or even the first few pages of any newspaper. The newspapers are privately owned, and I imagine it was someone's goal to cause dissention within the Muslim community by this article. I do no think they would publish this letter in any section of the newspaper.
>
>Ahmed
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I hope that you and your family are in the best state of health and Iman; may Allah swt reward you for your time and efforts.
>
>I went through the 1st few lines of Ameer's letter; the style of yak yak and the smell of compulsive lying is all over it. Please brother we don't have to hear from him again.
>
>Jazak Allah khairan, wa Salam
>
>Alaa
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>General Response
>
>One thing must have been observed by now by all thinking Muslims is that
>'The Australian' is a newspaper of Hate against Muslims and Islam in
>general.
>
>If the newspaper is scanned for anti-Islamic articles one will find that
>vitriolic articles written by likes of such as Dure, Sheridan etc with
>purported credentials but undeniable hatred appears day after day. On some
>days as high as ten articles deriding Muslims has appeared.
>
>I used to be an avid reader of Australian over 20 years but in the last 24
>months the unashamed vitriol including the editorial against Muslims has
>been in force. The thing is that most articles would fall in the hate
>promotion category.
>
>So in view of such unmistakable observation when the likes of Ameer Ali
>decide to give interview to the Australian, it is the height of stupidity.
>
>So don't scream misquoted etc. This is one simple and most significant
>element of leadership quality which is absent.. 'intellectual foresight'.
>
>Sheik Taj. Has spoken out. so what.. just fuels the non argument and
>ammunition for the Australian.
>
>The inability of the so called leadership to articulate and enunciate,
>therefore, inability to communicate is borders on criminal.
>
>So it falls to the blubbering uneducated intellectuals to inflict the damage
>on Muslims.
>
>I am ashamed every time the likes of Sh. Taj and Ameer Ali open their mouth
>in the national media.
>
>M. Ali
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I could agree with your comment on the basis of asking why issues on Islam, especially our Prophet needs to end up in the newspaper in the first place.
>Many feel that Muslim concerns are not suitable for publication in the reporting media.
>In one of my emails I mentioned that a Ameer Ali should keep his mouth shut especially to people of the press, even if that seems to be difficult for him.
>
>Generally a journalist in Australia is hunting for a story. Australia is a very poor hunting-ground, with hot stories far and not easy to come by.
>This is why there is so much garbage going around in the press, including pussy-cats rescued from power-poles, making head-news for the 99th time.
>If the information he / she receives is controversial enough, the better it is for publication.
>
>It's in the nature of the beast.
> People are not interested to read or watch boring stuff and the media are giving it to them.
>Not many care if 60 thousand people die each day of hunger, but one little boy out of West Papua being on the cooking menu by his tribe that thought
>he represented evil almost got out of hand, when Indonesia got a tip off and arrested an Australian camera crew and sent them home on the next flight.
>
>I am saying to you brother: "Nobody is calling Ameer Ali on the phone, or visiting him in the intention to revert to Islam, hence learning about it"!
>Let that be a fact and the basis of our understanding, dealing with the journalists.
>
>So what else could it be but sniffing for information that can be sensationalised?
>Again, Ameer should be by now smart enough to work that one out for himself.
>I mentioned to you Muhammad how easy it is to fall into this trap.
>Exceptions do exist and we both know about one person working for the Sunday Times here in Perth.
>There are some people you can talk with and are sensible, responsible.....
>
>Axel
>==================
>
>At 10:22 PM 10/7/2006, you wrote:
>
> Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
> Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
> This is in regards to Ameer Ali's response below.
>
> Some might wonder why I am so critical about Ameer Ali. For your information this is after observing him closely for years.
>
> In my opinion, as far as serving the purpose of his masters is concerned, the job is done. And now this sort of private letters to the Muslim community are expected from Ameer Ali. If Ameer Ali is sincerely regretting what has happened then this issue can be fixed/resolved inshaAllah. I suggest the following:
>
> 1. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published on the front page of 'The Australian' newspaper. He should be able to do that due to his links with the PM and others. OR
>
> 2. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if he has to pay for it. OR
>
> 3. The Australian Muslim Community should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if we have to pay for it. I personally will be more than happy to contribute inshaAllah.
>
> Wassalam
> Muhammad Altaf.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ..
> To: The Muslim Council of NSW Inc.
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:42 PM
> Subject: MISREPRESENTED BY JOURNALISTS - DR AMEER ALI
>
> ------ Original Message -------
>
> From:"Ameer Ali"
>
> Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2006 6:53 pm
>
> -------------------------------
>
> To the Chairmen and Members of Islamic Councils/Societies.
>
> Assalamu alaikum
>
> It is with deep regret that I am writing this letter to explain to your members about the ugly reporting about the Holy Prophet in The Australian newspaper. I can understand the anger that this has created in the minds of all Muslims including myself. I was shocked at the headline above the photograph which said "Prophet not perfect" which was a deliberate act of mischief by the publishers.
>
> I was completing a research article for an academic journal about why some
>
> Muslims behave violently when someone says, writes or draws something which is blasphemous in the eyes of the Muslims. As I was completing the article, I received a call from a journalist who was asking about recent developments in the community. I told him that I had nothing to report, but that at the moment I was writing this piece for a journal. He showed his interest in the topic, and said he would be very much interested in reading it. I said it was only the first draft and that it had to be read by my colleagues for suggestions and criticisms, so I gave him access to only some parts of the paper on the understanding that he will not quote any part without my permission. After he read the article he called me again to discuss some of the points. One point he raised was about my views on the Prophet and my explanation as to why some followers of Islam follow the physical aspects of the Prophet's life more than his preaching. In a long discussion, I explained to him that there are two dimensions to the Prophet's life; a human dimension and a prophetic dimension. The human dimension is the model of reality while the prophetic dimension is a model for reality. This is the point I was trying to explain. I alluded to the incident about the blind man who came to visit the Prophet and was ignored by him because the Prophet was engaged with other matters. Later, Allah rebuked the Prophet for this behaviour. I said that this was a manifestation of the human element of the Prophet which was later corrected by Allah. And I said humans are fallible, and only Allah is infallible. If we ignore the human dimension of the Prophet, we are in danger of elevating him as equal to Allah in terms of infallibility, which is shirk. It is in this context that the word "flaw" crept in and the journalist took that word out of the whole conversation and gave prominence to it in his reporting. This was mischievious. After this, when I saw the report in the paper, I immediately realised how the public is going to react and particularly the Mufti. Before I could get in touch with the Mufti, the journalist was quick to get in touch with him first and get his reaction. Naturally, like any religious leader would react, the Mufti gave his response as was published in the paper. After I explained things to the Mufti, he contacted the newspaper and asked them to withdraw his comments but it was too late. The damage had been done.
>
> The whole episode should be a lesson for all Muslims to be careful when
>
> discussing anything on religion with journalists, especially in this country. I hope you will understand that I only had sincere intentions, and was an unwitting victim of unscrupulous media reporting.
>
> I hope you will circulate this letter to your members.
>
> Yours Brotherly,
>
> Dr Ameer Ali
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please Note:
> ************************
> This is a non-commercial message.
> *************************
> To unsubscribe, send a message to
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>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Fw: Ameer Ali's response to the article about his views on the Prophet (SAW)
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 22:22:27 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>Dear Brothers / Sisters
>
>This is in regards to Ameer Ali's response below.
>
>Some might wonder why I am so critical about Ameer Ali. For your information this is after observing him closely for years.
>
>In my opinion, as far as serving the purpose of his masters is concerned, the job is done. And now this sort of private letters to the Muslim community are expected from Ameer Ali. If Ameer Ali is sincerely regretting what has happened then this issue can be fixed/resolved inshaAllah. I suggest the following:
>
>1. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published on the front page of 'The Australian' newspaper. He should be able to do that due to his links with the PM and others. OR
>
>2. Ameer Ali should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if he has to pay for it. OR
>
>3. The Australian Muslim Community should get his response (as below) published in the first few pages of 'The Australian' newspaper even if we have to pay for it. I personally will be more than happy to contribute inshaAllah.
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ismail Moola
>To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
>Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:08 AM
>Subject: Ameer Ali's response to the article about his views on the Prophet (SAW)
>
>
>From the response below it looks very much like Dr Ameer Ali was misinterpreted by the journalist. Just shows how important it is for us in our responses to the media.
>For thos of you who have not read the article here is the shortcut to it.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...34-421,00.html
>
>Was Salaam,
>Ismail
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ..
>To: The Muslim Council of NSW Inc.
>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:42 PM
>Subject: MISREPRESENTED BY JOURNALISTS - DR AMEER ALI
>
>
>------ Original Message -------
>
>
>From:"Ameer Ali"
>
>Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2006 6:53 pm
>
>-------------------------------
>
>To the Chairmen and Members of Islamic Councils/Societies.
>
>
>Assalamu alaikum
>
>
>It is with deep regret that I am writing this letter to explain to your members about the ugly reporting about the Holy Prophet in The Australian newspaper. I can understand the anger that this has created in the minds of all Muslims including myself. I was shocked at the headline above the photograph which said "Prophet not perfect" which was a deliberate act of mischief by the publishers.
>
>
>I was completing a research article for an academic journal about why some
>
>Muslims behave violently when someone says, writes or draws something which is blasphemous in the eyes of the Muslims. As I was completing the article, I received a call from a journalist who was asking about recent developments in the community. I told him that I had nothing to report, but that at the moment I was writing this piece for a journal. He showed his interest in the topic, and said he would be very much interested in reading it. I said it was only the first draft and that it had to be read by my colleagues for suggestions and criticisms, so I gave him access to only some parts of the paper on the understanding that he will not quote any part without my permission. After he read the article he called me again to discuss some of the points. One point he raised was about my views on the Prophet and my explanation as to why some followers of Islam follow the physical aspects of the Prophet's life more than his preaching. In a long discussion, I explained to him that there are two dimensions to the Prophet's life; a human dimension and a prophetic dimension. The human dimension is the model of reality while the prophetic dimension is a model for reality. This is the point I was trying to explain. I alluded to the incident about the blind man who came to visit the Prophet and was ignored by him because the Prophet was engaged with other matters. Later, Allah rebuked the Prophet for this behaviour. I said that this was a manifestation of the human element of the Prophet which was later corrected by Allah. And I said humans are fallible, and only Allah is infallible. If we ignore the human dimension of the Prophet, we are in danger of elevating him as equal to Allah in terms of infallibility, which is shirk. It is in this context that the word "flaw" crept in and the journalist took that word out of the whole conversation and gave prominence to it in his reporting. This was mischievious. After this, when I saw the report in the paper, I immediately realised how the public is going to react and particularly the Mufti. Before I could get in touch with the Mufti, the journalist was quick to get in touch with him first and get his reaction. Naturally, like any religious leader would react, the Mufti gave his response as was published in the paper. After I explained things to the Mufti, he contacted the newspaper and asked them to withdraw his comments but it was too late. The damage had been done.
>
>
>The whole episode should be a lesson for all Muslims to be careful when
>
>discussing anything on religion with journalists, especially in this country. I hope you will understand that I only had sincere intentions, and was an unwitting victim of unscrupulous media reporting.
>
>
>I hope you will circulate this letter to your members.
>
>
>Yours Brotherly,
>
>Dr Ameer Ali
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Please Note:
>************************
>This is a non-commercial message.
>*************************
>To unsubscribe, send a message to
>info@islam-australia.net with Unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>To subscribe, send a message to
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>From: "Islam-Australia Inc" <info@islam-australia.net>
>To: "Islam-Australia National List" <asmaazam@ii.net>
>Subject: Sh. Taj al-Hilali's response to Ameer Ali
>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:02:23 +0800
>
>Assalamualaikum wa Rahmatullah
>I have only taken Sh. Taj's comments from the article in The Australian, not bothering about every Tom, Dick and Harry. For complete article you can go to their website anyway.
>
>I am glad that Sh. Taj has spoken out. May Allah bless him.
>
>PLEASE NOTE:
>Muslims should not accept if Ameer Ali says things like "I was mis-quoted..." or "I didn't mean that...' and so on because this is not the first time he gave interviews to the media and should have figured out by now that he will be mis-quoted. Therefore he should not have given the interview in the first place and should have followed the Islamic teaching "If you open your mouth say something good or keep your mouth shut".
>
>Wassalam
>Muhammad Altaf.
>Muslim cleric calls for ban
>Richard Kerbaj
>
>October 05, 2006
>
>AUSTRALIA'S most senior Islamic cleric has called for a Muslim leader to be ostracised over comments about the prophet Mohammed that he likened to Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses.
>Taj Din al-Hilali yesterday accused the chairman of John Howard's Islamic reference board, Ameer Ali, of selling out his religion to gain the support and financial backing of Muslim critics.
>
>Dr Ali said in The Australian yesterday that Mohammed had flaws, and criticised Muslims who blindly followed the faith and failed to question the veracity of the Koran.
>
>Sheik Hilali, the head of Lakemba Mosque in Sydney's southwest, said Dr Ali's "defamatory" remarks were akin to those that in 1989 earned Rushdie a fatwa from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini.
>
>While Sheik Hilali backed Dr Ali's call for a reinterpretation of the Koran to fit modern times, he condemned his "dangerous" and "ignorant" comments about the prophet.
>
>"We forbid such statements, from both Ameer Ali and anyone who has encouraged him to say what he said," Sheik Hilali said in an interview conducted in Arabic.
>
>"We refuse to have him stand with us at any religious ceremony from now on, unless he revokes what he said about the faith and the prophet."
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Prophet not perfect, says Islamic scholar
>Richard Kerbaj
>
>October 04, 2006
>
>
>
> Muslim minds 'closed': Ameer Ali, doctor of economics at Murdoch University in Perth, says the Koran must not be read literally but reinterpreted for today. Picture: Colin Murty
>
>
>A LEADING adviser on Islam, Ameer Ali, has attacked Muslims who "blindly" follow their faith and fail to question the veracity of the Koran, saying that even Mohammed had "flaws".
>The chairman of John Howard's Muslim advisory board yesterday warned that Islamists would continue to breed jihadis unless the Koran was "reinterpreted" for today's society.
>
>He also said mosques were increasingly being used by imams to deliver sermons that were not open to discussion.
>
>Dr Ali said the majority of Muslim clerics had for centuries imposed a "literalist" teaching of Islam, telling their followers that deviating from the written message would ultimately lead to their admission into hell.
>
>"The times are changing and with the change of times, you also have to reinterpret the Koran," he told The Australian.
>
>"Because if you believe that it's a book for all the times and all the nations, then that book must be yielding new meanings.
>
>"There are verses about slavery, and the Koran says you must be kind to the slaves. So are the Muslims saying we must have slavery to be kind?
>
>"The jihadists are interpreting the Koran literally and that's the problem ... Popular Muslims, because of their lack of knowledge about religion, are vulnerable to these sort of teachings."
>
>Dr Ali, who is writing an academic paper entitled "Closing of the Muslim Mind", said even Mohammed was not the "perfect model" as most Muslims believed. Asked if the prophet had character flaws, he said: "Of course - you must look at him as a human being also."
>
>His call for moderation comes 11 days into Ramadan, the holy month that requires Muslims to fast, give to charity and become more spiritually accountable.
>
>His comments came as a French philosophy teacher was forced into hiding after describing the Mohammed as a ruthless warlord and mass murderer. Robert Redeker has been under police protection, moving between secret addresses, since threats against him appeared on Islamist websites last week. His home address was published with calls to murder.
>
>Dr Ali criticised community members for playing victim when Muslims reacted violently against criticism, as after the publication of the Danish cartoons and the recent comments by the Pope.
>
>He said it was time for Muslims to "confront this challenge head-on and look critically at their behaviour and mode of response to alleged blasphemy".
>
>Dr Ali called for Hezbollah to be removed from the Government's terror organisations list two months ago, saying they were freedom fighters defending their country against Israeli invasion.
>
>The former president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils said there were sections of the Koran that were relevant to "everybody at every time".
>
>But he said people needed to read into the scripture and not merely accept it as the final word.
>
>Dr Ali - who heads the Muslim Community Reference Group set up last year following the London bombings to improve communication channels between the federal Government and Australia's 300,000 Muslims - labelled the idea of going to hell for questioning the Koran a "load of rubbish".
>
>"Because we cannot decide who's going to go to hell and who's going to go to heaven - that's left to the creator," he said.
>
>Dr Ali criticised Muslims who react violently towards any depictions of Mohammed while aspiring to emulate his ways.
>
>"True, Islam prohibits any drawing or a statue to be carved out representing the figure of the prophet. Still, it has not prevented the Muslims from imitating the physical features of Mohammed," he said.
>
>Dr Ali said it was "ridiculous" that some Muslims believed God would judge them on the "length of (their) beard". He said Muslims would be judged on their "character, their knowledge, their contribution to society".
>
>He said young Muslim Australians were slowly becoming more inquisitive about their faith. "Therefore they are going to ask questions when they grow up and that's a healthy trend," he said.
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Please Note:
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>
>To subscribe, send a message to
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><< image001.jpg >>
The stuff being pumped through e-mails finishes there for now at least. My hope in exposing this sort of dialogue is to furnish Dr. Ameer Ali with his due respect from overseas Muslims. You must know that he has really stuck his neck out to have made the statement that Australia has the feeling of a Muslim country. The voices in the country that support the Indigenous Islam are being systematically silenced; and the Muslim community is not innocent in this fact. I will my self be keeping a mind towards Dr Ali's work to ensure that "a fair go" for all Australians, means a fair go in receiving an Islamic education also. The harsh reality here is that the mainstream community is being kept totally ignorant of real Islamic teaching, but often enough witnessing in mainstream media noted arguments that receive publicity only to serve the purpose of a political game within the Muslim community; so in general Australian have been dismissive of Islam altogether. But that aligns with the fact that organised crime has not been dismissing Islam. Many believe that it was a group of criminals with links to Muslims whom set up the dodgy loan which brought down the closer-to-socialist-than-any-other-western-secular-type-democracy-nation-state ever voted in Whitlam Governement. That is a big issue to this day. Everybody then living remembers. There were fights in primary school playgrounds over the matter. It happens that I have met two out of three of the actual persons who manifested the set up and can verify two pieces of circumstantial evidence suggesting that the whole insult to our stature as an Indigenous people could well have aligned itself with an Islam.
I hope that the international community of Moslems will be able to accept that many of my own posts in internet forums are being made within a framework of a rapid adjustment to what many of us have been too long in the dark about; simply because of the quality of Muslim experience that is being embarked upon here. The best and the worst seem to have arrived upon our shores: and often hand in hand. Sort of like us Aussies already had been in many ways. A Gog and Magog type warfare. I my self am already so well disliked among the local Muslim community that almost nothing could worsen the situation; so probably best that it is me who points the bone.
The Australian Muslim Community in general does itself an immense disservice by rabid ignorance of what thier own portrayal of Islam has been in the media. If I have copies of these e-mails the you can be sure that the journalists whom misreported anyone in the first place also have them. So why is Dr Ameer Ali being discredited within the Muslim community?
I suspect my own suspicious nature, so shall tell no more.
mu'asalam