[quote=krypton6;900695]
Out competing blablabla is nothing, and they used to be a greate islamic host, they no longer are! Turkey itself has not done anything for islam, the Ottomans acomplished alot but the Ottomans were not turks they were muslims.
I never said they are a good host of Islam now. I said that I agreed with what you said about the Kurds and the Armenians and the Hijab ban, remember? I meant that we should still remember a country's good accomplishments as well as the bad.
Supporting america is always bad. America "helped" muslims in order to help themselves. Thats the thing with america, they never want to help others, they only want to help themselves and some times in order to help themselves they help others. But it is not in their intentions to help others!
What did the USA have to gain from saving Bosnia and Kosovo? They have no strategic value or natural resources, and they were not US allies. So why did they join with NATO and liberate them from the fascists?
Not that the USA had the initiative to save some innocent people. No lone country does that. It was the combined efforts of NATO that stopped the fascist genocide.
America are the worlds greatest imperialists. They have imperialised nearly all former islamic countries, they have slaughtered its people and left the country leaving their own men behind to rule the country for them.
This is completely untrue. America never slaughtered any peoples en-masse, with the major exception of the Native Americans. The USA simply has never had an Imperialist history. They did have a few inccidents of colonialism in the Phillipines and Cuba, but never on the grand scale of France, Britain and Spain.
As for leaving a pro-US leader, this is called being a pragmatist. Countries never fight for what they believe in. They fight for themselves, to protect their own interests in an inherrently selfish manner. The vast majority of claims of fighting for freedom or democracy or whatever are just excuses used to make people support them. Whilst doing this is in my opinion rather selfish, it is what all countries do. If Iran or China or Iceland were at the top of the pecking order, they would do the same, if not worse.
You call what america has given to the middle east for democratic? If it was so democratic, then wouldnt the whole middle east be following the Sharia by now? This is not democratic, what they have given to Palestine, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and many others is not democrati, its one big dictatorship!
Tell me when I said American involvement in the middle east was democratic? It isn't. But that does not mean that other countries would not do the same, if not worse. Again, the USA does not do this because it is some sort of Evil Empire trying to kill all Muslims and end Islam, but because they want to keep their butts as rich as they can for as long as possible. At the moment it is the middle east that is the prick in their side.
While they havent stolen themselves, the men that they have left behind to rule their imperialised country, are all thieves, murderes and dictators. How can it be that all middle eastern people are poor? They got the oil but they are still poor! The american allied and setted government are selling the oil and taking the money from it without taking care of their country. And ofcourse america isnt doing anything about it, becuase they dont need the people they only need the government to be allied with america.
Yes, I agree that the USA does set up capitalist dictatorships, but that does not mean that we should forget what good that the USA has also done to the world.
And it is the Middle Eastern leader's fault that their countries are poor. If they cared if their people starved or not then they should sell oil to the USA and China, and then use the money to build the infrastucture needed to manufacture cheap electrical goods to sell on the world markets rather than buying fancy cars and palaces.
I dont know about the early Caliphate's but the Ottoman Empire ended due to to much betraying, and the biggest betrayer of them all was Kemal Ataturk, and he was the father of all turks, the father of turks and they look up to this coward.
The early Caliphate was the most important one. It was the one that outlined the world of Islam today. But unfortunately they fell from the true path, and all the kings and sultans started to do that 'pragmatism' thing I talked about before, dividing up the empire into several competing areas. Then the original caliphate was stupid enough to put their trust in another country, the original turks, to defend Islam. They started to be pragmatists, and wanted to take over the Caliphate's role, and they fought several wars with them. This, combined with the crusaders, weakened the Caliphate, and it was completely unable to stand up when the Mongols came down from the steppes to butcher, rape and burn everything they could find. They torched Baghdad, destroyed it's irrigation system, captured the Caliph and executed him by trampling from horses. All the city's inhabitants were herded in front of the Mongol hordes, who proceeded to slaughter them with axes.
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But in only a few hundred years, the Mongol empire had split into several states, or Khanates. They had adopted the culture of the conquered peoples, and the Mongol Khanates, particularly China, became cultural superpowers, with international trade free to pass from Europe to China, something called
Pax Mongolia. The Mongols in the Middle East became Muslims, and spread the message of Islam throughout the Mongol Empire.
See how a country guilty of the most henious of crimes can also be the orchestrator of wonderful things? There is no need to have such monolithic hate for people.
:w: