View Full Version : Representative group from all muslim communities

06-21-2005, 03:07 AM
Assalamu Alaikum,

I am looking for a forum where we can unite Muslim brothers from all distant and remote communities of the world.

I am from Bangladesh and saw the break up of Pakistan as I grew up. From my experience I have come to the following realization over the years:

- Bangladesh, as a geographically small Muslim country is not a viable state, as it cannot address two of its immediate dangers facing its 160 million population, of which 90% is Muslim

* river-linking project for all rivers at upstream zones in India that will dry up the rivers in dry winter season and will inundate the entire country with excess water during monsoon season, in other words the seasonal flooding will get much worse after the river-linking project is completed with barages put in place in all rivers at upstream locations - just like the Farakka Barage has already contributed to environmental imbalance in downstream areas of the river Ganges (Padma, as is locally known)
* Global warming in 50 years may increase sea-level by 1 Meter and that will displace 10-15 million people in Bangladesh from its fertile low-lying Bhati areas, this is currently being promoted as the first human casualty of Global warming. Experts still cannot agree, but evidences are mounting

- Being part of a bigger unit has its benefits, in the old days empires were brought upon nations and communities by force and internal peace within a large empire always fostered trade improving the lives of all citizen. Regardless of how it was achieved a long lived large unit always flourished, although eventually they always fell apart. Yet they do serve a purpose for their time and age in advancing human evolution, in my opinion. Mostly it is economies of Scale that gives the bigger unit its comparative advantage, bigger markets, bigger production base etc.

- Ancient Chinese, Indian, Mesopotamian, Egyptian/North African and Meso-American empires left their marks, so did Greek, Roman, Persian, Islamic, Mongolian, Slavic and Turkish empires. The recent Mercantile empire of Renaissance colonizers has also left their legacy out of which the West has emerged

- The colonizing empires eventually collapsed as they could no longer hold on to their colonies, and then emerged the non-colonizing natural large unit, the US, which was able to withstand and to contribute to the demise of the Communist bloc, an unnatural form of Union that was forced upon nations and people of Eastern Europe and Eurasia, by the old Slavic empire, in the name of Bolshevism

- The US inherited the torch of Renaissance and is now the reigning global hegemon, the sole and unmatched super power. Europe is trying to form a super-state to emulate the success of the US, by way of EC. Its success so far is countable and limited

- In this background, two other large units are emerging, namely China and India, which seem to be able to take advantage of their economies of scale, China in manufacturing and India in IT sector, Medical services etc.

- Bangladesh or Pakistan (although it has nuclear deterrence) is no match for India’s size and will continue to be bullied and be a victim, it is the law of the jungle, might is right etc.

- Muslims from other parts of the world were saddened to see the breakup of Pakistan and it has some lessons for all of us, here in my opinion, in very brief over-simplified terms, is what happened:

* Jinnah and other elite Indian Muslims wanted to unite the country under one language Urdu, but Bengal Muslim’s with their age-old Bangla language which was actually developed under Turkistani Sultanate and Mughal rule in Bengal, did not want to give up a mother-tongue and rightly so. 98% population of the then East Pakistan spoke the language. If Jinnah had promoted Arabic rather than Urdu, as the third language (Bangla being 1st, English 2nd), Bengal Muslims would have gladly accepted

* Jinnah moved to the Western wing and set up capital there. Although the Eastern wing had 50%+ of the population, it was made one province, where the Western wing had five provinces, and all provinces got equal share of the budget - which meant that 50% of the population was apportioned 17% of the budget.

* Ironically, Jute, the main exportable cash crop of then Pakistan was produced in the marshy Eastern wing and earned 70% of export earnings from 1947-1971

* Initially, highly educated muslims from present day India (Bombay, Delhi) monopolized the government administration, but soon the Punjabi muslims took over, due to their proximity to the capital and because they joined the army in large numbers, while they excluded Bengal Muslims since they are not from a “martial race”

* the feeling of Racial superiority of North-west Indian Punjabi’s who are more “Aryan” types, and of the Urdu speaking Indian Muslim who were descendant’s of Central Asian Muslim invaders, was too much for the poor Bengali Muslims, who were mostly dark skinned Dravidian types converted from lower caste Hindu’s with smattering of immigrant blood in the elite families - after the removal of British raj, they now had two bosses to deal with, who looked down on them and robbed them of their resources at the same time

* despite all of the above, the average Bengal Muslim would never dream of breaking up Pakistan, unless it was for the instigation of Indian RAW (Indian CIA, Research And Intelligence Wing) and our national traitor Sheikh Mujib, whose entire family is India’s agent, both of whom were helped by politicians of the western wing

* Bright individuals like Bhutto and General Yahya Khan unleashed a genocide in Dhaka on 25th March, 1971 on fellow Muslims and took us to the point of irreconcilable differences, how can you trust a partner that thinks that they are superior to you because they look better, deal with you unfairly and finally want to kill you to make us subservient to them. Obviously, all sane Bengal Muslims then followed the so called “father of nation” Sheikh Mujib and with the help of India, got rid of this nuisance

- the bitter taste of the Pakistan period remains with Bangladeshi Muslims and although relationships have steadily improved since 1971 and are very friendly now (much better compared to our relation with India), neither Pakistan nor Bangladesh has any desire to reunite, but the possibility of a global Islamic Common Market, where many countries will participate is much more acceptable to both people, if I am not wrong

- I would welcome Muslim brothers from Pakistan to correct any wrong statements I have made. I must emphasize that despite all that has happened, it is in the past, a generation has passed and also everything that has happened, it was due to stupidity of politicians in both wings East and West, the victims were of course the people of both wings, ie the people of Pakistan and Bangladesh

- the purpose to bring this issue up was to show the complexity of uniting diverse communities under the banner of Islam. In todays age of democracy and free flow of information, I believe a common market gradual approach like EC is the best approach, of course there is no reason why we cannot try to implement as much of Sharia law as possible. In my opinion, HE Mahathir Muhammad of Malaysia, is one of the best qualified to give advice for such an initiative

- After the breakup of last three remaining Islamic empires, the Ottoman, the Safavid and the Mughal - the remnants of the Islamic world have morphed into many small nation states in the Muslim world, resulting in non viable entities like Bangladesh

- Muslim’s of today do not just live in small non-viable states, but they also live in minority enclaves, such as Kashmir in India, Xinjiang and Ninxia of China, Southern Russia, Mindanao, South Thailand to name a few, even the largest Muslim state of Indonesia cannot compete with China or India, due to size constraint

The idea of this thread will be to hear from diverse Muslim people, from Hui Muslims in Ninxia, Kazakh Muslims in Bayan Olgii to Berber Muslims in Morocco and Algeria and our Sub-Saharan Muslim brothers from Darfur to Nigeria. Hopefully, with increased dialogue and exchange of information, we can form a group of representatives from all distant Muslim communities.

OIC does its job well, buts its scope is limited. We would like to form a more grass root people’s group, whose feet are in the ground and who are from among the people and the communities. Our work and connections will complement the work of OIC to unite the Ummah and hopefully we will be able to join hands with OIC at a future date.

Anyone that is involved with, supports or sympathizes with violence (that is not sanctioned by established authorities on Islam) or promotes separatism against any existing nation states, will not be welcome and will be expelled from the group, as in my opinion, sabr is a better tool for getting results.

The group will work to expose injustice and among other things do brain-storming ideas on how together we can act on small projects to improve comparative advantage of the people of the Ummah, such as sponsoring scholarship for top students in remote disadvantaged Muslim communities, and encouraging study of Robotics, Artificial Intelligence and Cognitive Science among Muslim students which has tremendous future potentials to revolutionize economy and society.

Together, Insha-allah, we shall make a difference. Allah help those, who make the effort to help themselves.

Wassalamu Alaikum

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06-24-2005, 10:03 PM
Assalamu Alaikum,

To the forum Moderators and Administrators, I would like to request your permission to start my effort to bring in Muslims from various communities of the world.

I recognize that my post has generated zero replies and it shows either that Muslims in this forum are not interested in Muslim unity and looking for practical ways to achieve any kind of unity that will increase over time and help bring the diverse communities of Islam closer together or that I failed to convey my message in an effective manner with a long post with too many digressions.

But at least this is a Muslim forum and I am among Muslims and I would appreciate if you allow me to continue my effort. If you know of a forum that is dedicated towards achieving Muslim Unity and dialogue and is a more appropriate place for this effort, I would appreciate if you could let me know its url.

By the way, I have enjoyed the Gallery section where you have pictures from different Muslim countries. Also, I have gone through some of the articles in the Polemics and Rebuttals section and found them to be well written.


06-24-2005, 10:27 PM
You must realise that Unity takes a very long time - your task will not be completed with ease. I would like to help, although, I don't really know how and one person on your team will not make much difference againste thousands. I understand you cause but it is difficult for a favourable result ot be achieved. I truly would like to help so PM me with furhter info.

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-24-2005, 10:55 PM

I just didn't understand how the forum was related to your vision of unity. What exactly do you seek permission to do?

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06-25-2005, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
You must realise that Unity takes a very long time - your task will not be completed with ease. I would like to help, although, I don't really know how and one person on your team will not make much difference againste thousands. I understand you cause but it is difficult for a favourable result ot be achieved. I truly would like to help so PM me with furhter info.
Thank you for replying to my post.

We can follow our beloved prophet (SAW) and not be affraid of difficult tasks.

One person cannot do much but we want to start small and assemble a larger group, eventually with at least one representative from every major Muslim community and over time all minor ones. Our first job will be to discuss:

- how we will find appropriate people from so many communities and bring them here, the logistics of it
- the purpose of this group, why form this group, to achieve what goal
- who will be eligible and who will not be

It is up to us to try our best and we will leave the results for Allah.

Thank you for your offer of help, I will PM you further details.

06-25-2005, 12:39 AM
:applaud: :applaud: M :wilted_ro ay Allah bless you in your help ...

06-25-2005, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

I just didn't understand how the forum was related to your vision of unity. What exactly do you seek permission to do?
Every human being, I believe has a vision, some grand and some not so. I apologize if my post has given the impression that I have a vision of unity and would like to promote it.

The only Vision of Unity that I would like to promote and follow is the one that is described in the Holy Quran and the example of which was set by our Prophet (SAW).

The more one studies Islam, the more one finds how unity among its followers was emphasized not just in words but in thoughts and deeds:

- Imaan, is to believe that there is no God, but one Allah (ST), and with that all Muslims are of one mind, and agree to this fundamental point
- Salat, five times a day, brings Muslims into a habit that is one and same for all. Also, Salaat in a Jamat at home has more Sawab. A Jamat in a Masjid has even more Sawab than the one at home. Finally, the Friday Jumuah is a must, and bring the whole neighborhood together to see each other at least once a week
- Sawm, for one month, makes all feel the pain of hunger, rich or poor, and teach us the value of abstinence and sabr
- Zakat, helps the poorer section of a community that they are part of us and will be helped by all in times of need
- Hajj, brings together Muslims from all parts of the world and let the diverse people of the Ummah meet each other and feel their unity of purpose and closeness to one another

So, as you see, Unity of the people of Ummah, was one of the fundamental core points of Islam. I am not one of the Ulema, people who are more experienced with the Holy Quran and the Sahih Hadith can elaborate the importance of unity further.

The permission I seek is to bring together a representative group from among the members of this forum and people who we (the group members) will invite from other places to join us here, so that they can become a potential member of this group and forum.

06-25-2005, 04:35 AM
Originally Posted by Nakisai
:applaud: :applaud: M :wilted_ro ay Allah bless you in your help ...
Thank you for your kind support.

06-25-2005, 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

I just didn't understand how the forum was related to your vision of unity. What exactly do you seek permission to do?
To add a few more points to my earlier reply to your post:

- the proposal and suggestion to bring together a collection or group of Representatives from a diverse group of Islamic communities was my humble idea that struck me as a way that we could utilize the new communication method of the web and the Internet to increase communication and cohesiveness in the geographically diverse Muslim communities of different parts of the world, who speak many different language. But some in almost all communities have workable knowledge of English and are using the web. These online groups can work as conduits of communication for the larger communities

- in a way the web forums already do the above to some extent, but I wanted to try a more formal and more comprehensive structure

- if you would be so kind, please feel free to share with us your own suggestions for promoting unity among the population of the Ummah, so that we can learn and improve on our ideas

06-25-2005, 08:38 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim

I would like to invite all Muslim LI forum members to become a member of this new "Representative group from all muslim communities"

I have thought of the following initial goals for this group:

1. The groups primary goal will be to promote unity of the people of the Ummah, by increasing communication and dialogue among the diverse muslim communities of the world and thus giving them the opportunity to learn about each other

2. To include at least one and if possible more representatives from as many Muslim communities as possible located at different parts of the world

3. To discuss the major problems, concerns and current issues facing each community

4. Particularly we would like to hear from communities where Muslims are facing on-going violence, repression and deaths as a result, such as Palestine, Darfur, Southern Thailand, Xinjiang, Kashmir, Chechnya, Nogorno-karabakh, Uzbekistan(Andijon), Iraq etc. We need representatives from these communities who can give us real first hand information

5. The other important subject we would like to discuss on the economic front is Islamic Common Market

6. There are many groups in today's world who are doing many things in the name of Islam, for our group, we will refrain from doing the following:

- threaten existing nation states and their boundary's with ideas of Islamic Caliphate, which is the concept behind Hijb-ut-Tahrir. It is my belief that the nation state entities are stable entities that evolved out of history of every region, and any growth out of these entities must be a gradual, spontaneous and voluntary movement such as in EC, any subversive movement in the name of Islam is counterproductive, even if it seems non-violent
- promote violence in any form, that is not sanctioned by established authorities on Islam - it is my sincere belief that human beings today have grown past the need for resorting to violent means for any end, there are tools available to put pressure without resorting to violent means and Unity of Ummah is most important towards that end. If we can achieve more by staying away from violence then should we at least not try

7. If you do not agree to above no. 6, then I would respect fully ask you not to join our group. If at a later time we find such sympathies among some of us, then with consensus of the group, we will give them the opportunity to change their views and after certain time, if such views persist, we will take the decision, jointly by vote, to expel such individuals, since we did not want to include such individuals to begin with

8. We fear none but Allah(ST), follow only our Prophet(SAW) and we shall reunite the Ummah as they have commanded and prescribed

9. After we have a good number of representatives covering a large part of the Ummah, we will then work on a new and more appropriate name for this group

Here is the list of current members:

khilji: Dhaka, Bangladesh 1st representative from 140 million Muslims of Bangladesh
aamirsaab: Leicester, UK 1st representative from Muslims of United Kingdom (pending his final consent)

If you are interested to become a member, please register in the LI forum, and once you are an LI forum member, please post in this thread expressing your interest and consent, mentioning the city(optional), country(optional) and the Muslim community that you want to represent (mandatory)

It must be made clear that if you are a Kashmiri Muslim staying in the US then you can represent Kashmiri Muslims of India or Pakistan, if you are in touch with Kashmiri Muslims from back home or in the US, but you can chose to present yourself as a US Muslim as well, if you are active in your local muslim community. We will leave the decision up to the individual, who they want to represent.

Wassalamu Alaikum

06-27-2005, 12:25 AM
Muslim world must focus on economy to realise potential: Malaysia
Written by Channel New Aasia
Monday, 20 June 2005

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia : Muslim nations must unleash their potential by focusing on economic development and building trade links with each other, Malaysia's premier told an international Islamic trade forum.

Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi hailed a new preferential trading system to be signed by 14 of the 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) members this year as an initiative to kick-start the process.

"This is an important first step towards the larger goal of greater economic integration among OIC countries," he said in an opening address to the forum.

"It is economic strength which can give the OIC greater clout and secure for itself a more influential voice in international affairs," he said.

Abdullah said it was up to member countries to ensure that the preferential trading system was successfully implemented.

"I hope the system can be adapted or another system put in place to promote greater involvement of the less-developed members in economic development as a whole," he said, adding that this was the best way to create wealth.

Malaysia's International Trade and Industry Minister Rafidah Aziz said on the sidelines that the balance of the 43 countries will be brought into the preferential trading system once it is in place, probably by year's end.

The countries that have already signed and ratified the framework agreement are Malaysia, Iran, Turkey, Bangladesh, Tunisia, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Pakistan, Cameroon, Indonesia, Guinea, Jordan, Uganda, she said.

Under the system, countries will reduce tariffs in a gradual three-stage process, while there will also be fast track mechanisms, said Rafidah.

"Increasingly we'll be offering market access and duty free (access) to each other in the longer term," she said.

Current negotiations, expected to be concluded by September, are on how to reduce tariffs and the implementation period for the agreement, said Rafidah, adding that the protocol will be finalised in November.

She said the preferential trading system will complement a parallel system for eight OIC countries, including Malaysia, Egypt and Pakistan, talks for which commenced last year.

"In other words within the OIC itself there are already two parallel market-opening mechanisms being established, which is good," she said.

Besides the trading system, Abdullah said that governments and business communities must develop existing institutions like Islamic banking and chambers of commerce in order to promote economic integration.

"Let us look at ways in which we can leverage on our strength. Clearly these must be areas where we not only have a natural advantage but also the critical mass to make our initiatives successful."

The Malaysian leader said that one of the biggest challenges confronting the grouping is the deep economic imbalances between members, which "should be viewed as an imperative for cooperation rather than as an obstacle."

Abdullah called for education OIC countries to be improved, pointing out that Islamic had made immense countributions in the past but was now lagging badly.

"Out of the total population of 1.3 billion in OIC member states, less than 300,000 qualify as scientists. In comparison, the United States of America has 1.1 million scientists; Japan has 700,000," he said.

The Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur is playing host to a range of meetings on the Islamic finance and information technology sectors this week.

Malaysia, the current chair of the OIC, has been pushing for closer economic integration in the grouping and for nations to develop their Islamic finance sectors as a way of strengthening their economies.

Rafidah told the OIC trade forum that member nations must address their very low participation in global commerce, which accounted for only 1.8 percent of the total in 2003.

Channel New Aasia

June 20, 2005

06-27-2005, 12:54 AM
Mission & Objectives:

D-8, also known as developing-8 is an arrangement for development cooperation among the following member countries: Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan and Turkey. It also adds a new dimension to enrich the social and economical relations of its partners.

Following the "Conference on Cooperation for Development", on October 22, 1996, and after a series of preparatory meetings the establishment of D-8 was announced officially by the Summit of Heads of State/Government in Istanbul, on June 15, 1997 (Istanbul Declaration).

The objectives of D-8 are to improve developing countries' positions in the world economy, diversify and create new opportunities in trade relations, enhance participation in decision-making at the international level, and provide better standards of living.

D-8 is a global arrangement rather than a regional one, as the composition of founding members reflects. Membership will be open to other developing countries subscribing to the goals, objectives, and principles of the group, sharing common bonds.

D-8 is a forum with no adverse impact on bilateral and multilateral commitments of the member countries emanating from their membership and international organisations.

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-27-2005, 04:37 AM
I see, so you want a formal structure with members representing different segments of the Muslim Ummah?

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. Our members already represent the Muslim Ummah whether they announce which community they represent or not. I'm not sure its necessary for us to each claim a different part of the Ummah under our jurisdiction and that we represent this region. To designate representatives one would need to determine how well a member represents a community through elections, etc. and that is beyond the scope of such a project.

But I think we can carry on with your plan without the need to designate official representatives.


06-27-2005, 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I see, so you want a formal structure with members representing different segments of the Muslim Ummah?

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. Our members already represent the Muslim Ummah whether they announce which community they represent or not. I'm not sure its necessary for us to each claim a different part of the Ummah under our jurisdiction and that we represent this region. To designate representatives one would need to determine how well a member represents a community through elections, etc. and that is beyond the scope of such a project.

But I think we can carry on with your plan without the need to designate official representatives.

Brother Ansar,

Thanks for agreeing with me.

You are correct, it is not necessary for everyone of us to claim a different part of the Ummah under our jurisdiction. We can definitely keep it optional and upto the participant. After all each one of us, as a Muslim, is representing all of Ummah, as you have correctly mentioned.

Thank you for agreeing to help and we definitely do not need to designate official representatives.

Please let us know your kind suggestions on how we can proceed.

06-27-2005, 10:07 AM
Br. I like your idea of increasing the communication among muslims from different parts of the world and looking into problems in the muslim world and their solutions through multi-cultural perspective.

06-27-2005, 10:40 AM
yeah me too.

06-27-2005, 08:20 PM

We have now the following brothers who have agreed to participate:

Abdul Aziz
Ansar Al-'Adl

I would like to thank you for your support.

Please feel free to initiate any discussions at any time. Also I would like to propose the following:

1. we make a decision on having a to-do list
2. all of us make an effort to recruit more people for this group from this and other islamic forums, so that we have a more comprehensive representation of the people of Ummah, such as

- at least one person from every D-8 member country
- at least one person from every OIC member country
- at least one person from all major and minor muslim communities of the world from all other countries

If you can make the time, please visit the following sites and let me know your opinion and comments:

www.oic-oci.org and all its activities and links under "Related Links"

These are all the real brick and mortar organizations I found that actually have salaried people dedicated for the purpose of Unity of the Ummah. Please let me know if you know of any others, so that we can add to this list.

Malaysia is probably the current chair holder for OIC. I have always admired HE Mahathir Muhammad, although some of his local politics are questionable. Since he is retired, it might be good to get some one connected with him to participate in our forum, so we have a way to reach him for suggestions.

At some point, it may not be hard to co-ordinate activities and pool resources with the above organizations and institutes, since we have similar goals, but we will have to wait till this group reaches a certain size and has some concrete track record, before we make any formal approach, as without some weight, they may not take us seriously.

As a compliment to this forum, I must say that among all the Islamic forum sites I have looked at, this site seems to have the highest traffic. That is why I started here. But I do realize that I may have ticked off brothers from Pakistan, please let me know if I should edit the opening message and how I should do it.

07-06-2005, 04:55 AM

Brothers, we need to hear from you, have you guys had any chance to go through the oic, iiu and iimu websites. Also, please invite people from other Muslim countries into our group.

I think I saw a thread where people have stated where they are from and I saw members from Turkey, Saudi Arabia and few other places, but most members it seems are from UK, which is fine - but please see if we can bring in members from other Muslim communities into our group, so we can hear about their part of the Ummah.

I have been a little preoccupied lately but I hope to start becoming more active soon.


07-06-2005, 04:58 AM
sorry brother I was a bit busy I will start soon......

07-06-2005, 05:33 AM
Our Special Ummah

Dr. Mohammad Omar Farooq

As the Prophet Muhammad (s) was the last prophet, the prophetic heritage of da'wah, sanctification and education, and community-building must be carried on by his Ummah. This is a special Ummah, not based on any race, language, geographical nationality, color, gender, or any other artificial classification. It has been evolved by Allah for humankind for the express purpose of: enjoining good and forbidding evil (Amr bil Ma'roof and Nahi anil Munkar) witnessing over humankind; and invitation to all that is good (Khair). This is the reason of the existence of this Ummah. All other aspects of being a Muslim are subservient to this role to carry on the prophetic heritage.

You are the best of peoples, evolved for humankind, enjoining what is Ma'roof and forbidding what is Munkar and believing in Allah ... [3: ale-Imran: 110]

Thus, have We made of you an Ummah justly balanced, that you might be witnesses over the humankind and the Messenger a witness over yourselves ... [2: al-Baqara: 143]

Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining the Ma'roof and forbidding the Munkar: They are the ones to attain felicity. [3: ale-Imran: 104]

The sublimity of the Ummah is based upon its reason for existence -- evolved for humankind -- enjoining what is ma'roof and forbidding what is munkar. Both ma'roof and munkar have a broad range of meaning and a clear understanding of these two concepts is critical to a Muslim's life. Ma'roof means well known; universally accepted; generally recognized; that which is good, beneficial, right. Munkar means wrong; abominable; disagreeable; denied, not recognized, rejected; evil; atrocity. Islamic way of life represents the ma'roof and munkar, because it incorporates what is universally recognized as good and right and rejects what is universally recognized as evil and wrong. For example, no society considers stealing or lying to be good and right, even though people may practice those acts. Every society considers honesty to be a virtue, even though some people are dishonest. Calling mankind to ma'roof and away from munkar thus represents the universal nature of Islam.

Muslim Ummah does not exist for its own sake. It has a definite mission, a divinely ordained service to render to humankind. "The logical conclusion to the evolution of religious history is a non-sectarian, non-racial, non-doctrinal, universal religion which Islam claims to be. For Islam is just submission to the will of God. This implies (1) faith, (2) doing right, being an example to others to do right, and having the power to see that right prevails, (3) eschewing wrong, being an example to others to eschew wrong, and having the power to see that wrong and injustice are defeated. Islam (the author probably meant Muslim Ummah) therefore lives, not for itself, but for mankind."1 [Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation, and Commentary; explanatory note # 434.]

Living for humankind implies a noble responsibility on the shoulder of the Muslim Ummah. The Ummah must be imbued with the spirit of being 'evolved for humankind.' Its goal and aspiration, dream and vision, commitment and endeavor, and attitude and conduct must be molded with a genuine touch of love and compassion for humankind and a deep, sublime sense of duty, the former emanating from the essence of rahmah (compassion) of its Creator and the latter from its Iman (faith) and its submission to God. Also it is a fundamental requirement of believers to act on what they preach. Vested with the mission of ensuring that justice prevails, the Ummah cannot be either unjust or indifferent to injustice, within or outside its fold. The Ummah cannot be low in virtue, while preach others about the nobility of virtue. It cannot teach morality, if the Ummah itself is submerged in corruption and vice. The Ummah will not be fit to show others how to fear only God, while itself is frightened by everyone who appears powerful in this world. It cannot play a preventive role among others, if it is involved in the same kind of wrongdoings. This role model is primarily based on the preeminence, excellence, and superiority of the Ummah over others in terms of its faith, morality, virtue, and sacrifice, spirit of love and justice, and capable leadership.

Performance of this noble role also requires power and authority attained legitimately (that is, without coercion or deception) and exercised faithfully and accountably, according to Islam. Doing Amr bil ma'roof and Nahy anil munkar is not preaching or da'wah only. It is facilitated by the full support of legitimate authority of a state; our beloved Prophet (p) could not escape this fact either. He had to secure an arrangement whereby a state could be established in Madinah to effectively carry out the role of khair-e-ummah for humankind. Indeed, the verse 110 of Ale Imran was not revealed until such a state came into existence.

If understanding of ma'roof and munkar is important, so is the understanding of amr and nahy. Amr means order, instruction, or command; not just preaching, admonishing, or advising. Similarly, nahy means forbidding, prohibiting, or proscribing. Both of these two terms imply an 'authority' behind them. An individual or a group can only preach, call, or admonish. Without the relevant authority and power, it cannot command, instruct, or order; nor can it prohibit, forbid, or proscribe. Also noticeable is that all the verses about amr-bil-ma'roof and nahy-anil-munkar in the Qur'an were revealed after the establishment of the State in Madinah. Every Muslim must participate in the fulfillment of this collective duty of the Ummah. But to do so, internally within the Muslim Ummah and externally for mankind as a whole, necessitates, based on Islamic values and principles and under the institutional framework of a state, legitimate political and moral authority to provide the requisite means and support for this noble duty.

[Excerpted from a manuscript under preparation by this author. The author is a former editor of NABIC Newsletter and a faculty at Upper Iowa University. E-mail address: farooqm@uiu.edu]

07-06-2005, 06:43 AM
Some of the links may be off-topic, but most are interesting. I thought I would share these:


07-08-2005, 05:41 PM
New list of brothers in our group:

Abdul Aziz
Ansar Al-'Adl
Tayyib Musawwir

Would like to thank and congratulate brother Tayyib Musawwir for joining our group and opening a new thread to Dawah (invite) other Muslim brothers and sisters of all races and nationalities to join our group.

07-10-2005, 09:07 PM
Current list:

Abdul Aziz
Ansar Al-'Adl
Tayyib Musawwir

I would like to thank brother Imaad_udeen for joining our group. Sister Nakisai, I have added you in our group also, although I have not heard from you. Please let us know, if you get a chance.

07-11-2005, 03:59 AM
BBC News World Edition

Srebrenica to remember massacre

Tens of thousands of people are expected to attend ceremonies marking the 10th anniversary of the massacre of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica.

About 8,000 men and boys were killed by Serbian forces in 1995, in Europe's worst atrocity since World War II.

British, French and Dutch ministers, as well as a US officials, will take part in a memorial at the Potocari cemetery, where many of the dead are buried.

Security is tight after two unexploded bombs were found nearby last week.

Former US Balkans envoy Richard Holbrooke and the president of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) are due to attend.

Over 1,500 policemen will be deployed to patrol the area.

During the ceremony, the remains of some 600 victims aged between 14 and 75 will be buried at the cemetery.


A Serbian delegation led by President Boris Tadic will attend the memorial for the first time - a move condemned by Serbian hardliners.

More than 600 killed in Srebrenica will be buried on Monday

In Serbia, many still believe the mass killings never took place.

But a new video showing the execution of Muslim civilians sparked national soul-searching among Serbs last month.

Mr Tadic has announced he will "bow to the innocent victims".

Former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his army commander General Radko Mladic have been indicted for genocide, but they are still at large.

So far 1,300 bodies recovered from mass graves have been laid to rest after being identified through DNA testing.

But more than 4,500 body bags full of human remains still need to be analysed.

On Sunday, the Bosnian government announced a new mass grave believed to contain more bodies of people killed in the massacre had been found.

Thirty bodies have already been recovered from the grave, which is said to contain hundreds more.

Some 8,000 men and boys who had sought refuge were rounded up and killed after being separated from the women.

07-11-2005, 04:02 AM
Fair trade tests G8 goodwill on Africa

By Brian Love Sun Jul 10, 8:44 AM ET

GLENEAGLES, Scotland (Reuters) - When the ink dried on G8 pledges to double aid for Africa, what was missing was a commitment to make life viable for cotton farmers and fishermen who are hurt by heavily subsidized U.S. and European rivals.

Economic self-interest took a back seat when Group of Eight leaders signed off on debt relief and an extra $50 billion per year for under-developed regions at the Gleneagles golf resort in Scotland on July 8, half of it for Africa.

But the goodwill faded when the eight men were asked to stop government support for exports of farm produce so that needier countries can compete on a more even footing in world markets.

In Geneva, the head of the World Trade Organization said at the same time that long-running negotiations among close to 150 countries on broad liberalization of trade in agricultural and manufactured goods and services were in crisis.

Aid agencies were quick to point out that more market access and fairer trade was what Africa needed most but was least likely to get any time soon.

"Despite word games in Gleneagles, in ongoing trade talks in Geneva the US and EU are still pushing to retain subsidies by another name," ActionAid, a non-government development agency, said.


The friction between Europe and the United States was almost palpable after British Prime Minister Tony Blair proposed that G8 countries set a 2010 deadline for halting export subsidies.

The proposal was shelved and an official communiqu said the G8 leaders were instead ready to work toward that goal "by a credible end date."

That did not stop big players such as the United States and the Europeans, the big subsidizers along with Japan, competing with offers of an end to farm aid, offers that analysts said were either too conditional or too vague to be meaningful.

President Bush said his country was ready to work with the 25-nation European Union on abolition of farm aid and that this might be doable by 2010.

French President Jacques Chirac said the EU had offered as much last year with no response from Washington and that Bush was making pledges to the media that he had not even aired inside the summit rooms of the Gleneagles hotel.

Indeed, Chirac said bluntly that no date would be set unless it was part of a broader package on trade in goods and services among nearly 150 countries involved in the so-called Doha Round of negotiations that are in trouble at WTO headquarters in Geneva.

The next big test of whether the rich G8 countries are serious about satisfying demands for more access to their markets and fairer trade with Africa comes in December in Hong Kong, when ministers will push for completion of the Doha Round free trade deal.

For now, there are plenty of other problems to contend with, such as a feud between Europe and the United States over aid to Airbus and Boeing, or threats by U.S. Congressmen to block surging Chinese exports of clothes and textiles.


Helping Africa help itself means striking long-elusive deals on things like trade in cotton. 10 million farmers in West Africa suffer because of U.S. subsidies despite producing cotton for a third of the U.S. price, a recent report highlighted.

Subsidized fishing boats from the EU often catch more fish off African shores than local vessels, while African fish exports to the EU are limited, according to the report by the Commission for Africa, a group advising Blair and G8 leaders.

Irish rock star Bono, one of the figureheads of a campaign to rid Africa of poverty, met G8 leaders to congratulate them for raising aid, but also to make the point that fair trade was vital for Africa to fend for itself.

"Everyone wants the fishermen, not the fish," he said

07-11-2005, 06:08 AM
JAKARTA (AFP) - The exiled leadership of the Aceh separatist movement has agreed to a demand by Jakarta that the tsunami-hit province should remain a part of Indonesia, the rebels said in a statement.

Free Aceh Movement (GAM) spokesman Bachtiar Abdullah said in the statement sent to AFP from Stockholm that the separatists and representatives from Aceh civil society groups agreed to the demand, a key prerequisite for peace talks.

During consultations in Sweden at the weekend, both sides agreed "the only way to a comprehensive and sustainable peace in Aceh was through a negotiated agreement that gives to the people of Aceh the right and capacity to determine their own affairs within the context of the Republic of Indonesia."

Jakarta has said any peace talks to end the conflict in the resource-rich province at the westernmost tip of Sumatra island could only proceed in the context of Aceh not seceding from Indonesia.

Indonesian government and separatist rebels will meet this week in Helsinki for a final round of informal peace talks amid optimism an end to three decades of conflict is in sight in Aceh, the hardest hit region in the December 26 tsunami disaster.

However, in the same statement, the GAM also reiterated its demand that Jakarta allows for the establishment of local political parties in Aceh, a request that has been consistently rejected by the Indonesian government.

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said last week the government could accept that former rebels run in local elections for the positions of mayors, district heads and deputies and of vice governor.

But he ruled out allowing local parties saying the laws only recognized national political parties with representations in the region.

In the statement, the GAM expressed commitment for a negotiated peace and said genuine democracy in Aceh would include "the establishment of local political parties under a system of self-government."

The participants to the meeting also expressed concern about continuing military activities in Aceh by the Indonesian armed forces, and opposition to the peace process "expressed by some opportunistic politicians in Jakarta," the statement said.

Several parliamentarians have criticized the government for opening peace talks with separatist rebels and lashed at Jakarta for agreeing on the involvement of foreign peace monitors saying it may internationalize the conflict.

Yudhoyono has since approached and obtained the support of the leaders of several key political parties for the peace talks.

The GAM statement did not identify or give details on the number of representatives of Aceh civil society groups attending the meeting held in Lidingoe, Sweden, with the assistance of the Olof Palme International Center.

Almost 15,000 people, mainly civilians, have been killed in Aceh since the GAM began its independence bid in 1976, with accusations of widespread rights abuses levelled at both sides.

An uneasy peace agreement was struck in 2002, but collapsed early the next year as the government launched a major operation to crush the rebels, placing the resource-rich region under temporary martial law. The region has now returned to normal status.

07-16-2005, 02:32 AM

Brother and Sisters of faith of this forum,

Its been less than a month since I joined this forum. My purpose was

to create awareness that our Ummah should be more united
to explore practical ways to achieve this objective and
to share these ideas with members

Out of around 1200 members of this forum we currently have 9 committed members who have become members of our group.

This website and www.ummah.com both are based in UK and most members are either from UK or US with a small number of members from other parts of the muslim world.

If we are to build bridges between the geographically diverse nation states of the muslim world, I believe all of us may consider the following work during our spare time:

- visit country specific forums of different Muslim countries
- visit University forums of different Universities in Muslim countries
- visit all Islam related forums (except forums that promotes violence against non-combatants)
- and invite Muslim members to come to a common space to share their views and opinions with others of the Ummah

Eventually we will need a private space, where access will be limited to members of the "group". I think both this site and Ummah.com has private spaces for purposes such as this. Currently the World Affairs of this site is our home. Ummahnews.com of www.ummah.com is an excellent resource. Journalists and reporters from different muslim communities can be the best candidates to become members of our global group, just like Univerisity students who are young, idealistic and have time to spare for causes such as this.

After some time, we will have a website whose sole purpose will be for the exclusive use of the members of this group and membership will be by invitation only. If we can have a sufficiently large member group, we may be able to join our efforts with those of OIC and D-8 organizations as I have mentioned earlier. The idea is to unite the efforts of diverse groups as long as the goals and purposes are the same.

Most websites currently have country and regional bias. Sites such as this one and Ummah.com have strong British and some times South Asian cultural overtones, as the majority of members are from these regions, if I am not mistaken. Our new website, which will be our eventual home, will have a balanced mix of members from all parts of the Ummah where no one will feel intimidated or cultural peer pressure to have certain level or standard of English or any other such standards which are not that relevant for the unification and development of the Ummah. We will develop our own global Ummatic culture if we can have such a thing, Insha-Allah.

Available spare time for one person in a 24 hour day is limited, so I encourage all member of our group or any Muslim forum member to participate in our work. I hope it can become one of your causes as it deserves to be.

May Allah(SWT) guide you to the right path.


07-17-2005, 10:25 PM
Current homes for our group:

LI Islamic Forum > General Forums > World Affairs > Representative group from all muslim communities

Muslim Globe Forum > Main > Current Events > Representative group from all Muslim communities

ummah.com forum > Main > Member Announcements > Representative group from all Muslim communities

Forum Index -> Pressing Issues of the Muslim Ummah > The Khilafah and The Current Political Situation > Representative group from all Muslim communities

Current members:

Abdul Aziz
Tayyib Musawwir

Salman Al-Farsi

Sample Dawah introductory announcement:

Assalamu Alaikum

We are a small group of Muslim brothers and sisters who has this idea that maybe if we could gather a bunch of Muslim brothers and sisters from all corners of the Muslim Ummah and share our thoughts and views, problems and their possible solutions and maybe if we could work on small projects for the uplifting of the Ummah, we could increase the feeling of solidarity among Muslims of different races and nationalities which would help the eventual reunification of the Ummah.

We have already started a group in www.islamicboard.com and have assembled around 8 members, mostly from US, UK and South Asia.

I am here to find like minded individual's who would like to join our modest group effort.

Please note, we will not ask for much from the members, at the most a few hours a week of your spare time, spent online, to work on various projects.

Initially we are going through a recruiting drive and we need Muslim brothers and sisters to visit:

- major country specific websites and forums of all countries with a significant muslim population
- University websites and forums of all Muslim majority countries and regions

to help our recruiting effort.

Please feel free to ask questions, we will be happy to share more details of our ideas.

07-28-2005, 10:34 PM

Brothers and Sisters from our group and others in the forum, I have been active at the following thread of this forum:

ummah.com forum > Main > Current Events > The Big Debate - Courtroom
Should Muslims work with Hizb ut-Tahrir to re-establish Khilafah?

Here I have engaged in some heated debate with HT members and supporters and I might even say that I have won the debate, as no one is responding after I have presented my research and analysis of the 40 page methods publication from HT website.

Since they are reluctant to discuss any other method than HT's method, I have opened a new thread here:

ummah.com forum > Main > Current Events > The Big Debate - Courtroom
To unite the Ummah, if Hizb ut-Tahrir's method will not work then what method will

To forum tech guru's, is it possible to have common workspace between multiple websites, where a forum subsection or thread can be visible from all websites, via some kind of hyper-link. Till we have something like this, we will have to live with this inconvenience for now. For the time being, I will continue my work at the above forum.

I would encourage you to sign up there, follow the debate and participate with your posts there.


07-31-2005, 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by Hashim

khilji, greetings. May i ask one small question. How can you work for unity by establishing another group? Brpther from reading your posts, a little advice, we have more than enough groups already akhee trust me. I think you should put less emphasis on the 'group' and more on the actual achiving unity. And second question akhee, how do you hope to build unity by taking a dig at other muslims, like hizbut tahrir who are doing more da'wah and working more for unity than yourself. Dont take this as insults, see this as constructive advice insh'allaah. I noticed you seemed a bit arragant, and you said you you 'won' the debate against certain hiazbu tahrir members about their methods. Subhanallaah, akhee when other people say, mash'llaah khiji really talks well he won the debate, that is when you habe truly won the debate. When you say it yourself, i belive thats called 'blowing your own rumpet'. I am not hizbu tahirir, i belong to no group and will join no group, i refue to do so. But i will 'debate' with you if you like here about hizbut tahrir methods, and there will be no 'winner' akhee i asssure you, just a discussion between two brothers.

I apoligisie akhee if i have offended you, and Allaah knows best.


Brother Hashim, no offence taken. Let me answer your questions:

- actually I have pretty much given up on this idea of forming a group by recruiting members from these forums, the chances of success are not good, so I will look for other ways to help the unification of the Ummah, within my humble means

- I respect HT for the dawah they are doing and calling muslims towards Islam and Deen, but I disagree with their method of establishing Khilafat, in fact I posted some recommendations for making changes in their methodology in the above thread in Ummah.com, but seeing what I have seen so far, I doubt anyone there is willing to listen, everyone thinks that they have got the right idea and everyone must follow them. I think I am one of the minority in these forums when I say that lets all get together and decide, with the help of all our recognized experts, what is right for us to do and what is wrong

- I am not perfect, I may have my share of arrogance, but winning debate is not what I am after, I think we all grew up from our adolescence by now, I am no high school student, and no I do not take it as an insult, at least you care to respond to my posts and I thank you for that

I think it is time to wrap up this little project. If any of the members have any questions, please ask.

It was good debating with you guys and exchanging views, and I am sorry that I could not do more. But at least I could express my opinions on what we can do to change the situation that we, the muslims of the Ummah, find ourselves in today.


07-31-2005, 09:36 PM

Brother Hashim, thanks for your encouraging words. I do not believe I gave up hope, I believe in having hope till the day we pass away to akhirat. But I learnt from HT's approach that face-to-face meetings and starting with people around us are more appropriate ways to form groups and propagate ideas.

I will keep an eye on World Affairs from time to time to see if you have started the threads on the practical ideas.

Allah had given me the opportunity to see a few countries and societies up close and work in their midst. I hope and wish that I can bring some positive inputs from my personal experience to help the people of the Muslim Ummah.


Tayyib musawwir
09-12-2006, 04:10 PM
Asalammu Alikum Brother Khilji What You Think We Should Bout Sudan Fight JanJweeds Somein Has To Be Done Soon

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