Birmingham hospitals ban Niqab

[nishom]

Birmingham hospitals ban Niqab
islamonline.com
Accessed on 18/10/2006 at 11.02


Hospitals in Birmingham city decided to ban Muslim medicos from wearing full-face veils, a move that could increase tensions that already exist nowadays in Britain, ndtv.com reported.

The veil ban was ordered at Birmingham University School of Medicine to "help aid good communications" between Muslim medical students, their colleagues and patients, a statement said.

It added that Muslim women can cover their faces in lectures and around campus but not in the "clinical environments" of hospital buildings and GPs' surgeries.

Female Muslim students who wear the veil must show their faces if they’re talking to patients in hospitals or surgery or if they are meeting with other medical staff, the statement said.

They can only cover their faces with surgical masks in the sterile surroundings of an operating theatre, it added.

The Birmingham University School of Medicine has 450 students of different religions and sends them for practice to a number of hospitals and primary care units, including the University Hospital of Birmingham NHS Trust.

"We do not place restrictions on the wearing of headscarves by staff or students, except in cases where they are required to work in a clinical environment, a spokesman said.

"This is particularly the case when it involves direct contact with patients. In these cases students are allowed to wear a headdress as part of their religious observance, as long as it does not cover the face.”

"This is necessary to help aid communications with patients and other colleagues," he added.

Muslim Labour MP Khalid Mahmood, whose constituency is in Birmingham, said: "We have to consider the safety and security of all, as there are times when people must be identified."

"Removal is fine where professional issues are called into question, when doctors and nurses meet with patients," he added.

The hospitals’ ban came amid a nationwide debate over the veil that was sparked by the House of Commons Leader Jack Straw, who described the Niqab as a “visible statement of separation” and said that he asks all veiled Muslim women visiting his constituency office in Blackburn to take off their veils.

British Muslim leaders condemned Straw’s remarks as “offensive”.

And the Islamic Human Rights Commission said that Straw’s request for Muslim women to take off their veil was “selective discrimination”.

Moreover, Islamophobic attacks, including verbal and physical assaults, have reportedly surged since the ignorant remarks were made, according to campaign groups.

At least six Muslim women have been abused for wearing scarves or veils after Straw’s comments.

[Muezzin]

I think this particular rule in this particular case is fair. Patients need to feel comfortable, and non-Muslim patients may feel hostility towards Muslim doctors and nurses wearing veils; the stress could hinder their recovery.

[Curaezipirid]

They must know that they are only likely to worsen the reality of integration. Maybe they are trying to cause false divisions within the Muslim community between who will remove their veil and who will not? But we'd need verifiable evidence before believing in whoever'd do that sort of thing. You know, like, what are the actually likely to say different to a Muslim who removes their veil and to a Muslim who stays as veiled as possible and won't talk much and refuses any medical intervention that is invasive of their privacy.

[Curaezipirid]

That is in the case of patients the invasion of privacy aspect: but the Muslim medical staff are truly in the best place from which to make an experiment upon the psychology of those whom want the veil removed.

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[Zulkiflim]

They must know that they are only likely to worsen the reality of integration. Maybe they are trying to cause false divisions within the Muslim community between who will remove their veil and who will not? But we'd need verifiable evidence before believing in whoever'd do that sort of thing. You know, like, what are the actually likely to say different to a Muslim who removes their veil and to a Muslim who stays as veiled as possible and won't talk much and refuses any medical intervention that is invasive of their privacy.

Salaam,

I agree,thus Allah commands to be modest in attire and being is thus dependant on who we meet and where we work.

So it is dictated by other who feel insecure that we need to bend over backward to ensure that they fell better.

and moderate muslim will of course be the first to say,yes the veil is restricitve to a conducive and integrated society.

They will never be happy till we become like them.


And moderate muslim are their tools to casue the Ummah to fail,to let mena dn women ,kafirs to dictate our religion.

[Isaac]

So much for hospitals that were planning to introudce or placed orders for full veiled suits for their muslim women patients and those that were going into surgery. Does anybody remeber thats story in the news.

[ahamed_sharif]

:sl:

Our duas are with these vieled sisters. Let Allah SWT give them strength to face this. The society which accepts half nude women is hesitant to accept a vieled sister.:(

[Muezzin]

I think some people are overreacting. The proposals allow women to wear their veils in front of male colleagues, just not when they're treating patients as this can make non-Muslim patients feel uncomfortable. In a hospital, I can understand the need to make patients feel at ease.

In broader society however, I think women should wear veils if they wish, and who cares if some skinhead feels 'uncomfortable'.

[Sister_6038]

i agree with bro muezzin...have more to say on this but i may be...
ostracised...*erm is that spelt right*

[Snowflake]

"We do not place restrictions on the wearing of headscarves by staff or students, except in cases where they are required to work in a clinical environment, a spokesman said.

I don't see a problem with that. Remember it is easy for muslims to be spoken/treated by a veiled sister but imagine being in the non-muslims shoes. It can be awkward and even scary - I've heard them say so.

If anyone has a problem with that decision then there's always the option of not working there.

[duskiness]

have more to say on this but i may be...
ostracised...

As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story

Speak your truth, sister! :D

[Sister_6038]

I don't see a problem with that. Remember it is easy for muslims to be spoken/treated by a veiled sister but imagine being in the non-muslims shoes. It can be awkward and even scary - I've heard them say so.

If anyone has a problem with that decision then there's always the option of not working there.

yeah thats pretty much what i wanted to say because i just feel that the vulnerable, old and young may feel frightened by sisters who wear the veil, and in no way am i condemning or being patronising, but just as wearing the niqab is sunnah (correct me if im wrong) so is smiling.....so if patients have that reassuring smile from their doctor theres nothing wrong with that is there?

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

It is simple..

Some solution.

There is a hospital for women and men.

If that is not viable then surely all muslim women should abandon the Niqab,then after a while there iwll be complaint that the Hijab is restrictive to a conducive society for the westerner,old and frail are fearful of people who wear the Hijab.

Then the Hijab should then be abolished.

Then there will be a time when the westerner will say,isnt it hyprocrisy that you say you need not wear the veil at OUR COMMAND in hospital and what not.
But wear it in public places?

Are the men in th hospitals you meet NOT STRANGERS?

It is said that even during the time of war in Jahiliah,the Prophet and OCmpanian during the fasting month fought,but even when weakened from the physical extremities,they did not break fast nor did they forget the prayer.

And now for muslim to do good to the public to teach and to aid the public,we have to be like them.

This is not a muslim problem it is an acceptance issue.

The west already view all muslim as terrorist,that is why.
They are not willing to accomodote muslim lifestyle,we have accomodated to theirs.
Should we have churched in Masjids?
Should we have alchohol beverages sold in Hallal stores?

Oh moderate muslim how far will go astray?

[Duhaa]

yeah thats pretty much what i wanted to say because i just feel that the vulnerable, old and young may feel frightened by sisters who wear the veil, and in no way am i condemning or being patronising, but just as wearing the niqab is sunnah (correct me if im wrong) so is smiling.....so if patients have that reassuring smile from their doctor theres nothing wrong with that is there?

Waajib sis. In this day and age because of the fitnaa around, it is waajib according to ulamaa....

[guyabano]

IMHO, it is a good initiative.
Did somebody also think, about all the germs it can carry while seeing fragile patients?
A hospital is supposed to be a sterile area and this has absolute priority to any religious matters no matter what country it is !

[Joe98]

They will never be happy till we become like them.

I think I'll migrate to Saudi Arabia and dress as I want

The problem is they will never be happy till I become like them !

[sameer]

I think I'll migrate to Saudi Arabia and dress as I want

The problem is they will never be happy till I become like them !

yeah but saudi dont boast of the "freedoms" that u do. Y be hypocritical?

[sameer]

IMHO, it is a good initiative.
Did somebody also think, about all the germs it can carry while seeing fragile patients?
A hospital is supposed to be a sterile area and this has absolute priority to any religious matters no matter what country it is !

ok but wouldnt a veil stop germs from spreading much easier than if the person face was uncovered? hence the surgical mask?

[wilberhum]

ok but wouldnt a veil stop germs from spreading much easier than if the person face was uncovered? hence the surgical mask?

Is the veil kept in a sterile environment?

[strider]

ok but wouldnt a veil stop germs from spreading much easier than if the person face was uncovered? hence the surgical mask?

Then simply wear a surgical mask?

I agree with brother Muezzin. Please try to look at the story in context- there is way too much over reaction going on with people not willing to hear anybody out just jumping up and down like spoilt children at the slightest mention of 'the veil'. :offended:

[Muezzin]

Salaam,

It is simple..

Some solution.

There is a hospital for women and men.

If that is not viable then surely all muslim women should abandon the Niqab,then after a while there iwll be complaint that the Hijab is restrictive to a conducive society for the westerner,old and frail are fearful of people who wear the Hijab.

Then the Hijab should then be abolished.

Then there will be a time when the westerner will say,isnt it hyprocrisy that you say you need not wear the veil at OUR COMMAND in hospital and what not.
But wear it in public places?

Are the men in th hospitals you meet NOT STRANGERS?

It is said that even during the time of war in Jahiliah,the Prophet and OCmpanian during the fasting month fought,but even when weakened from the physical extremities,they did not break fast nor did they forget the prayer.

And now for muslim to do good to the public to teach and to aid the public,we have to be like them.

This is not a muslim problem it is an acceptance issue.

The west already view all muslim as terrorist,that is why.
They are not willing to accomodote muslim lifestyle,we have accomodated to theirs.
Should we have churched in Masjids?
Should we have alchohol beverages sold in Hallal stores?

Oh moderate muslim how far will go astray?

Will you please stop saying 'moderate Muslim'? I'm actually finding it quite annoying now. Really. Who are any of us to label each other? You're either Muslim or you're not - if you said the shahadah, you're Muslim, so please, stop this judgemental attitude as quite frankly it is not constructive and is quite possibly offensive.

If you read my post, you will see that I agree with removing the veil (not the headscarf) in this particular context. Outside in everyday life, women should be free to wear veils if they wish, despite the disapproval of certain sections of society.

[Zulkiflim]

Will you please stop saying 'moderate Muslim'? I'm actually finding it quite annoying now. Really. Who are any of us to label each other? You're either Muslim or you're not - if you said the shahadah, you're Muslim, so please, stop this judgemental attitude as quite frankly it is not constructive and is quite possibly offensive.

If you read my post, you will see that I agree with removing the veil (not the headscarf) in this particular context. Outside in everyday life, women should be free to wear veils if they wish, despite the disapproval of certain sections of society.

Salaam,

Pls go here for more detail of what moderate muslim,and who coined them.

And there are many muslim whom are proud to call themselves moderate muslim.

Hirsi Ali and of course the alway famous Author of the Satanic Verse,,cant remember his name

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...oderate+muslim


And i agree,muslim are people who recite the shahadah,they are muslim.

[lavikor201]

And there are many muslim whom are proud to call themselves moderate muslim.

And what would you label yourself to be? Obviously you hate people who call themselves "moderate" and do not involve themselves in the politicial aspects of Islam. So does that make you someone who believe in political Islam, a basic tool of people to control the minds of those who have great faith.

[Muezzin]

I think I'll migrate to Saudi Arabia and dress as I want

The problem is they will never be happy till I become like them !

That statement is fallacious as it assumes all women who wear the niqab are immigrants. They are not all immigrants. Many were born here, in Britain. Why should they change their practice because some people feel 'uncomfortable'? Does democracy not allow us to dress as we wish, so long as it is within the law?

[sameer]

Is the veil kept in a sterile environment?

Is ure face kept in a sterile environment?

She can easliy change veils in the surgery room and use another one for outside of there.

[Zulkiflim]

And what would you label yourself to be? Obviously you hate people who call themselves "moderate" and do not involve themselves in the politicial aspects of Islam. So does that make you someone who believe in political Islam, a basic tool of people to control the minds of those who have great faith.

Salaam,

I am a muslim.

I do not hate them who call themselves moderate,i pity them for they are falling into darkness and think it is light.

Islam is life,it encompasses botht he secular and reliogus world.

The Prophet Muhammad saw ruled and was the head of the religon.
He made treatise and taught about worship.