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Lina
10-19-2006, 10:43 PM
Anger in Holland over 'apartheid' Islamic hospital
By David Rennie in Brussels
(Filed: 05/10/2006)


Plans for a Muslim-only hospital in Holland have sparked a heated debate over its separate all-male and all-female wings, halal food and roster of duty imams.

A populist Right-wing party described the plan for the clinic in south Rotterdam as "a step backwards to the Middle Ages".

There will be segregation between the sexes, with male patients treated by an exclusively male nursing and medical staff and similar arrangements for females.

once proud multi-cultural model, which promoted tolerance of a rapidly growing immigrant population, has been sharply questioned in recent years, especially after the murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh by an Islamic radical.

The latest row concerns plans for a private hospital aimed at members of Holland's one million Muslims.

It is the brainchild of a health industry entrepreneur, Paul Sturkenboom, who plans to employ 45 doctors and 275 nurses. Staff will not have to be Muslims.

The plan has been fiercely attacked by the Rotterdam-based Leefbaar Rotterdam, or "Liveable Rotterdam" party, which controlled the local council until March.

Last month, the Right-wing party unsuccessfully tried to have the hospital plan banned.

It has also been dubbed "apartheid" by a prominent nationalist MP, Geert Wilders. But construction work on the clinic is about to start and it aims to open by 2008.

Mr Sturkenboom defended his project yesterday.

He said: "If Mr Wilders is saying in a xenophobic way that this will prohibit integration of Muslim Dutch citizens, we just point to the fact that 20 or 30 years ago, Jewish, Roman Catholic and Protestant Dutch people had their own schools, their own hospitals, their own trade unions and employers' organisations.

"That autonomy helped those people integrate at their own speed into Dutch society. This compact hospital will give Muslims time to integrate at their own speed."

He said that 40 of Holland's 100 hospitals were run by Catholic or Protestant foundations. There are no Muslim hospitals, though Muslim immigrants make up a fifth of the population.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...muslims105.xml

:w:
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Muezzin
10-20-2006, 08:10 AM
This is a private venture. As long as it stays within the confines of the law, it does not matter what certain right wing elements think.

And 'apartheid'? Don't be ridiculous.

'apartheid
/paartayt/

• noun the official system of segregation or discrimination on racial grounds formerly in force in South Africa.

— ORIGIN Afrikaans, ‘separateness’.'

Silly far right bozo.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-20-2006, 09:05 AM
mashaAllah. But just cos its got complete non-muslim facilities doesnt mean that no non-muslim can attend it... does it? because that just doesnt sound islamic. But subhanAllah wat a brilliant idea to start a completely islamic hopitol :)

:salamext:
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wilberhum
10-20-2006, 10:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mazed
mashaAllah. But just cos its got complete non-muslim facilities doesnt mean that no non-muslim can attend it... does it? because that just doesnt sound islamic. But subhanAllah wat a brilliant idea to start a completely islamic hopitol :)

:salamext:
The article says:
Muslim-only hospital
So I think that excludes non-muslims. As long as it is "a private hospital", I see no issue. That is as long as there would be no condemination by the Muslim comunity if a private hospital is opened and Muslims are excluded.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-20-2006, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
The article says:

So I think that excludes non-muslims. As long as it is "a private hospital", I see no issue. That is as long as there would be no condemination by the Muslim comunity if a private hospital is opened and Muslims are excluded.
i know i meant to say that it should be like with islamic facilities only but it should also accomodate non-muslims because it doesnt sound islamic to distinguish the ill by religion !
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wilberhum
10-20-2006, 11:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mazed
i know i meant to say that it should be like with islamic facilities only but it should also accomodate non-muslims because it doesnt sound islamic to distinguish the ill by religion !
I agree. The sick are sick and need help. In my openion, religion should not be an issue. I fully understand that a person would perfer to go to a hospitle that is associated with there religion, but those that make it a requirement, assuradly have there priorities mixed up.
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Woodrow
10-21-2006, 12:51 AM
As long as it is a private hospital. The hospital has the right to run it by whatever criteria they desire as long as it meets the basics for safe health care. The issue about it being for Muslims does not fit right with me. I believe they should treat any one who is in need of care. However, they should have the right that the patient abide by Islamic rules while a patient. I doubt if many non-Muslims would seek treatment there, but that is their right also.
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snakelegs
10-21-2006, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lina
There will be segregation between the sexes, with male patients treated by an exclusively male nursing and medical staff and similar arrangements for females.
there have been issues in "islamic medicine" around women only being allowed to be seen by women doctors - the problem is that in some places there are simply not enough women doctors. if this is not a problem in holland, muslims are just as entitled to their own private hospital as any of the other religions.
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scentsofjannah
10-21-2006, 03:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
The article says:

So I think that excludes non-muslims. As long as it is "a private hospital", I see no issue. That is as long as there would be no condemination by the Muslim comunity if a private hospital is opened and Muslims are excluded.
the article says that..but then if you read further the content contradicts the crazy headline..the staff don't have to be muslims in order to work there..and if someone is in need we don't deny them treatment, help support because of their race or religious background...if that was the case then those rightwing idiots would be accusing the hospital of the REAL apartheid..based on discrimination..instead what they are doing is they don't muslims running the hospital, having their own religious leaders, seperate male and female facilities etc It is not forbidden for a male to treat a female or viceversa but people feel uncomfortable being examined or exposed infront of people of the other gender...and this feeling isnt confined to muslims as many nonmuslims prefer to speak to the person of their same gender when dealing with gender specific issues.

In short a big hoohah over a non-issue.
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scentsofjannah
10-21-2006, 03:22 PM
does anyone live in Holland..if so could it be possible to ring this hospital or this Paul guy and ask them if the hospital is only for muslims i.e it treats only muslims which i believe cannot be the case since thats against Islamic Sharia.
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Durrah
10-21-2006, 10:16 PM
I dont know why its being made into a hoo har and Wiberhum, there are plently of relgious orientated hospitals in the US so what are you rambling about. My friend regulary goes to a jewish hosiptal in the states because she said it was much better then the normal public run hospitals. She also mentioned that there was a catholic run one as well.

Why is it such a big deal if muslims open up? No-where did it say that non muslims would be denied treatment. Its actually against the law to deny someone treatment on the basis of their faith or anything else! So they wouldnt be allowed to open a hosiptial if they did or that was their intention!

But like everything else, muslims are always being potrayed as the bad guys and people like yourself fall hook, line and sinker for any piece of negativity thats published in the press.
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Durrah
10-21-2006, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
does anyone live in Holland..if so could it be possible to ring this hospital or this Paul guy and ask them if the hospital is only for muslims i.e it treats only muslims which i believe cannot be the case since thats against Islamic Sharia.
:sl: sister

Its a lie. This hosipital would NOT have been allowed to open under any circumstance if it was treating muslims only. Like all hospitials in the private sector, its privately run and how things are done are varied. Like at a jewish hospital, all the meals are kosher, woman are provided with long hospital gowns as the torah requires modesty from women (and men too) etc. But one thing a hospital cannot do (atleast in the west in this day and age) is refuse entry or treatment for someone simply on the basis of faith, race, sexual orientation, age, etc. Like i said, its against the law.

What you have though is spin being spun by the right wing sections of holland in the press and goverment and muslims are flavour of the month (or year). Blacks in holland (regardless of faith), the turks and whatever else they have there get all the same racism treatment through the press and what not :rollseyes. The dutch are xenophobic in general and no matter how long any dutch of non white orgin has been there or born there or contributied to the country, they're still viewed as 'guestworkers' and treated with the same distain and will never have anything good reported about them. I know someone will throw up ayan hersi ali or some other token non white dutch citzen who those right wings parties in goverment or the press love, because they often dengrate the masses of their own people (who are not white dutch).

Also remeber, this is a country that on one hand says that they're tolerant to the world, but in relaity are racist in all sectors of society to non whites in holland. Its also ironic that they speak of aparthied when they were the ones who colonised south africa and ruled there under apartied (the white afrikans in south africa are actually dutch). So dont believe whatever rubbish they come out with. Go to holland for yourself and you'll see exactly what i mean.
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scentsofjannah
10-31-2006, 04:59 PM
mashaAllah greta post sis ...i know that couldnt be the case..and holland is an awful place for many nonwhites..i personally know quite a few people who have lived in holland..they describe the dutch people of having many negative views about nonwhites..prejudice xenophobia and racism is vvery rife
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wilberhum
10-31-2006, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
I dont know why its being made into a hoo har and Wiberhum, there are plently of relgious orientated hospitals in the US so what are you rambling about.
I was commenting on the "Muslem Only". Obviously you did not read/understand what I wrote. If it's primary function is to service Muslims, that's good. There is a vast difference between a primary and only function.
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KAding
10-31-2006, 10:07 PM
Now now, you shouldn't use such broad generalizations to characterise the Dutch.

I don't think Muslims can complain in the Netherlands. There are no 'ghettos' like we see in France, there are more Islamic schools in Holland than in the rest of Europe combined. Muslims are overrepresented rather than underrepresented in politics, for example if you look at the number of parliamentarians.

Nevertheless, anti-Muslim sentiments have certainly been on the rise. The murder of Theo van Gogh really did not help.
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Bittersteel
11-02-2006, 02:49 PM
If it's primary function is to service Muslims, that's good.
I concur.but "Muslims only" does it kind of also mean its controlled and administered by Muslims?
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Janissary
11-04-2006, 01:17 AM
Apartheid? Does anyone else think it's really silly to throw around established words with negative connotations in this way?

It's a private hospital, it neither affects the non-Muslim population nor limits Muslims' access to national healthcare. The cry of apartheid is so ludicrous that it must be a cry of Deus vult in disguise.
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GARY
11-05-2006, 08:18 AM
This compact hospital will give Muslims time to integrate at their own speed."
Many muslims have made it clear that they have no desire to integrate.
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Muezzin
11-05-2006, 03:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
Many muslims have made it clear that they have no desire to integrate.
And many more Muslims have successfully integrated into Western society without losing their own values.
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stannis
11-06-2006, 02:36 PM
In Europe, we have these 'crazy' ideas about everyone receiving a roughly equal medical care, regardless of their religious background. Granting the Islamic community the right to build Muslim-only hospitals would deprive the wider community of medical resources and provide a dangerous precedent to the medical systems throughout Europe.

It's bad enough having private facilities to cater to the super-rich while ordinary citizens are deprived of their right to efficient medical care.
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