What if the United States won the Iraq War?

[Dahir]

What if, by January 2004, the United States had successfully captured, tried, and executed Saddam Hussein, defeated the entire Iraqi resistance?

Had that happened, how would today -- 10/28/2006 -- look? Would it be the same, or be slightly or greatly different? And what would the Middle East change -- focus especially on Iran and Syria here.

[KAding]

What if, by January 2004, the United States had successfully captured, tried, and executed Saddam Hussein, defeated the entire Iraqi resistance?

Had that happened, how would today -- 10/28/2006 -- look? Would it be the same, or be slightly or greatly different? And what would the Middle East change -- focus especially on Iran and Syria here.

I think, regardless of the military situation, there would be a Shiite coalition in power in Iraq, which would probably be fairly friendly towards Iran. This might not have been to the liking of the US, but as long as both the US public and the Shiites would insist on democratic rule and elections the results could not be much different.

[Trumble]

I think, regardless of the military situation, there would be a Shiite coalition in power in Iraq, which would probably be fairly friendly towards Iran. This might not have been to the liking of the US, but as long as both the US public and the Shiites would insist on democratic rule and elections the results could not be much different.

I'd go along with that. I suspect that's where it will end up anyway, after a lot more bloodshed. The post-war bloodshed in Iraq has been caused by an assortment of groups with their own interests willing to use violence to achieve them and establish a power base in the 'new' Iraq. Some of those groups are pragmatic enough to co-operate on occasion if it is in their mutual best interests but the idea of some united "resistance" in Iraq is a total fantasy and always has been. They aren't bothered who that violence is against, it could be and has been against Coalition forces, Iraqi security forces and indeed each other.

[thirdwatch512]

655,000 citizens of iraq dead.

900,000 misplaced.

these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.

how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.

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[mahdisoldier19]

655,000 citizens of iraq dead.

900,000 misplaced.

these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.

how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.

This is not the fault of Al Qaeda. The USA INTENTIONALLY BOMBED FALLUJAH KNOWING OF THE CIVILIAN COUNT. Over 150 mosques were destroyed. Thousands killed. Last i recall the insurgency groups and al qaeda did not fly high and bomb them like the coalition troops. Dont try to be slick and make the blame among everyone. It is the US fault, dont try to share the complete blame with the insurgency.

[Curaezipirid]

What would happen?
I thought that was obvious!

They'd suddenly realise that they are the biggest bunch of loosers ever.

There are some victories which are sort of pre-programmed by Allah to be a loose. So who fights to win stands out as the bad guy for everybody else to beware of.

But that doesn't mean to say that every loosing game plan will will; just that the winning game plans loose in the long run. Everybody knows that, don't they, or is that just Aussie Indigenous culture (uh oh, now maybe I'm in trouble for spilling beans)?

But its really important! If your win is true then you are always loosing to Allah; so every win is a loose. A few loosing streaks turn into the victory only because in Allah we are all Judged ultimately. Be meek dudes.

waram

[Asyur an-Nagi]

655,000 citizens of iraq dead.

900,000 misplaced.

these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.

how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.

i don't get your point by bringing up al qaeda blah. and what other groups did you mention there?

people loves to point al qaeda as the invisible culprit. how long will this happen? would they be also blamed for the killed whales, tortured walrus or an earthquake?

[Woodrow]

My own suspicion is that it would be very similar to what it is today. The differnce is Saddam would have been executed by now. His Government would have been overthrown and there would be fighting over who will control the country.

I do not know if there would be less or fewer innocent deaths. But I believe it would be less and it definetly be be a lot less American and British Deaths.

[Keltoi]

The U.S. "winning" in Iraq is dependant on the Iraqi people, not the U.S. When the citizens begin to believe that this government they elected is stable and not going to fall apart, then more Iraqis will be willing to openly and actively support it.

[Skillganon]

i don't get your point by bringing up al qaeda blah. and what other groups did you mention there?

people loves to point al qaeda as the invisible culprit. how long will this happen? would they be also blamed for the killed whales, tortured walrus or an earthquake?

I think people got it into their head that anyone fighting against crusaders are consequently termed al-qaeda, and anyone taking the crusaders as protectors and freinds or not fighting them (because they are not able too for some reason) are peaceful people.
Who know's anyone who probably voice against it and support the resistance vocally probably be considered al-qaeda.

I suppose it make's most of the members in this forum al-qaeda. I simply don't care what they choose to label, it just a means to do so for political reason, and stir up/or silent the ignorant herd.

I personaly think resistance should go on, and I suggest people look into the Quran and the sunnah for doing so, and should be in accordance with it as best as possible.

[AbdulHassanAmir]

They did win...

[Dahir]

They did win...

I'd beg to differ, so would much of the world.

But what's your definition of success?

NOT achieving set goals is success to you?

No WMD's, Bin Laden, or even competent replacements for Saddam.

If you see unchecked goals as success, than Iraq is one of them, so was WW2 for the Germans, and my last driving exam for me (which I failed).

[Keltoi]

I'd beg to differ, so would much of the world.

But what's your definition of success?

NOT achieving set goals is success to you?

No WMD's, Bin Laden, or even competent replacements for Saddam.

If you see unchecked goals as success, than Iraq is one of them, so was WW2 for the Germans, and my last driving exam for me (which I failed).

If you are referring to the Iraq War, that was over years ago. The stated objective, which was the end of the Saddam regime, was accomplished. The problem is that there wasn't a stated objective or a plan for the post-war situation. I'm not sure what Bin Laden has to do with the Iraq War though.

[Trumble]

I personaly think resistance should go on

'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.

The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.

[AbdulHassanAmir]

I'd beg to differ, so would much of the world.

But what's your definition of success?

NOT achieving set goals is success to you?

No WMD's, Bin Laden, or even competent replacements for Saddam.

If you see unchecked goals as success, than Iraq is one of them, so was WW2 for the Germans, and my last driving exam for me (which I failed).

I never said they were successfull. They won against Saddam and toppled his regime. And now there is a brand new war in Iraq.

[Skillganon]

'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.

Resistance against the crusaders and the one who take them(Crusaders) as Guardian and protectors, the crusader institute goverment.

Contrary to your politically flavoured words such as peace, humanity e.t.c.
The sectarian violence is just what crusaders favored as possible alternative i.e. united confrontation to the allied troops.

I really do not believe the old mens that sit's in the parliament or the fundies in washington did it out of the goodness of their heart or out of love for Islam(Muslims)

The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.

Well much could of been ovoided if the gun blazing american's, did not excercise the millitary might on a already desolate land that where in the brink financial instability by the countless sanction that supposedly restrict their old-freind from being a threat because he fell out of favour.

I will cling to my fantasies whatever you wan't to call it, and part of it involves the allied troops loosing/leaving. I am sure they are main part of the problem. Never doubted that, and I expected much what is happening today from the the initial conception of such Mighty bravado by the american-allied regime.

Anyway aslong at it has to do with Muslims it is everything got to do with Islam, and me.

[mahdisoldier19]

'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.

The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.

Obviously , you dont know the politics or the real situation in Iraq. The current sunni areas are united under Sharia. There are 2 shiite groups, 1 accepts the american involvment, 1 does not. Thats the truth, thats whats happening. The sunnis have taken baghdad and all will soon InshAllah come to them.

P.S. Dont rely on western propaganda

[GARY]

P.S. Dont rely on western propaganda

Which propaganda should be relied on?

The situation in Iraq is much more complicated than anything that has been suggested here. It is complicated to the point that even those that are there and involved don't understand the full scope of the problem. I am not sure anybody does.

[mahdisoldier19]

Which propaganda should be relied on?

The situation in Iraq is much more complicated than anything that has been suggested here. It is complicated to the point that even those that are there and involved don't understand the full scope of the problem. I am not sure anybody does.

No you make it complicated then it is.

There is a SUNNI ISLAMIC STATE established in the sunni areas.The center of the Islamic State is in Baghdad There are 2 groups of Shiite surgency. 1 Goes with the Americans, the other does not. Thats how simple it is. I dont know what you cant understand? How much more clarification do you need? And Offcourse this is a full scale Invasion by the USA.

[*noor]

Which propaganda should be relied on?

None...you can't even rely on any these days.

[Keltoi]

The "real" situation in Iraq is that American soldiers are standing around at checkpoints when they should be back at base training for the next mission, and there will be one fairly soon. Iraq is up to the Iraqis at this point. U.S. Marines should not be playing policeman and stepping inbetween a quasi civil war. Half of me says get all Americans out of Iraq and bless them with our fingers crossed, and the other half says we have no choice but to see the thing through to the end.

[MTAFFI]

No you make it complicated then it is.
And Offcourse this is a full scale Invasion by the USA.

Iraq is no where near a full scale invasion of the US, i am not sure you understand the size and might of the American armed forces, there is navy, air force, army, etc. Actually 5 divisions in all, and if we really wanted to take over and run things believe me we could, and without much of a problem either. If the entire population of Iraq wanted to fight the US and the US wanted to fight them, we could win that war in less than 6 months. Please understand this is not what i want, but do understand if we wanted this control and oil or whatever else we could very easily just take it and turn iraq into a giant crater

[Dawud_uk]

but you wouldnt as you would have a massive war with every muslim in the world, hence why you used limited resources because a full invasion would make your evil intentions too obvious.

besides, the US is already massively committed to other theatres, if it went whole sale into iraq it would have to withdraw from these other areas and the people it oppressed there would then be free to rebel.

as mighty as you think you are, Allah is mightier.
however well you think you plan and plot, Allah is the best of planners.

Abu Abdullah

[MTAFFI]

but you wouldnt as you would have a massive war with every muslim in the world, hence why you used limited resources because a full invasion would make your evil intentions too obvious.

besides, the US is already massively committed to other theatres, if it went whole sale into iraq it would have to withdraw from these other areas and the people it oppressed there would then be free to rebel.

as mighty as you think you are, Allah is mightier.
however well you think you plan and plot, Allah is the best of planners.

Abu Abdullah

Dawud, I would like to first say i apologize if i offended you with my last remark, with that said, my point is there is no plot, Iraq was a big mistake, the US needs to get out, it is not our place. I think this would happen much quicker if the insurgents stopped killing everyone, but what are the chances of that? Also I think the majority of Muslims already do hate us so what would be the difference in that anyways? Also, please let me know what country the US oppresses, i will be very eager to see your answer to this. This is going way off my original point, my point was that the US wants to leave Iraq, we dont want our soldiers there and we dont want anything else from there. We simply want the fighting to stop so the country will become stable and be self supported. Come up with all the conspiracy "theories" you want but the fact of the matter is the US is in Iraq because of the other foreign invaders and left overs from Saddams regime that have brought the country to a civil war.

[Dawud_uk]

look at the history of the US, it aint pretty. one conquest after another and one oppression of a native people after another.

iraq is one in a long line of oppressions upon other peoples.

for asked for an example, look at saudi arabia... if the US troops pulled out the regime there wouldnt last 6 months and in its place would come a true islamic state insha'allah but the people there are held down because of the fact that they know if their own govt was overthrown then the US garison would do the govt's job for them and hence a blood bath would result.

Abu Abdullah

[MTAFFI]

look at the history of the US, it aint pretty. one conquest after another and one oppression of a native people after another.

iraq is one in a long line of oppressions upon other peoples.

for asked for an example, look at saudi arabia... if the US troops pulled out the regime there wouldnt last 6 months and in its place would come a true islamic state insha'allah but the people there are held down because of the fact that they know if their own govt was overthrown then the US garison would do the govt's job for them and hence a blood bath would result.

Abu Abdullah

Dawud,

I think that you might think a little to much into things, just because certain countries are allies of the US doesnt mean there government is controlled by the US. I respect your opinions, but please take some time to look on the good side of things, the US isnt this country that wants an end to Islam, as a matter of fact if you ask a Muslim in our country if they like our country the majority would say yes, and they practice their religion here the same as they would anywhere, it is one of the great things about this country, which is the freedom of religion. We do have our problems and corruption, but tell me a country that doesnt, power = corruption, absolute power = absolute corruption. You cant tell me you think the whole world is run by the US. There are many Islamic countries that could be considered "evil" or whatever too, just depends on how you look at it. I for one think if the US does win the war in Iraq it could be a lot better place to live than it ever was before, if they lose the same people who think it is ok to kill and torture these so called "traitors" will run the country, and how will that be any different then Saddams reign. He did the exact same thing, he killed who he thought was a traitor.

[mahdisoldier19]

Dawud, I would like to first say i apologize if i offended you with my last remark, with that said, my point is there is no plot, Iraq was a big mistake, the US needs to get out, it is not our place. I think this would happen much quicker if the insurgents stopped killing everyone, but what are the chances of that? Also I think the majority of Muslims already do hate us so what would be the difference in that anyways? Also, please let me know what country the US oppresses, i will be very eager to see your answer to this. This is going way off my original point, my point was that the US wants to leave Iraq, we dont want our soldiers there and we dont want anything else from there. We simply want the fighting to stop so the country will become stable and be self supported. Come up with all the conspiracy "theories" you want but the fact of the matter is the US is in Iraq because of the other foreign invaders and left overs from Saddams regime that have brought the country to a civil war.

Insurgents stop killing everyone? And who has the US killed? Noone?

[GARY]

No you make it complicated then it is.

There is a SUNNI ISLAMIC STATE established in the sunni areas.The center of the Islamic State is in Baghdad There are 2 groups of Shiite surgency. 1 Goes with the Americans, the other does not. Thats how simple it is. I dont know what you cant understand? How much more clarification do you need? And Offcourse this is a full scale Invasion by the USA.

I am afraid you are quite wrong and over simplifying the matter. But perhaps you could explain your credentials and why you are an expert on the matter.

[Curaezipirid]

If American backed Governance wins in any place, while the American's are being governed by leaders whom would have been regarded as the bad guys within Indigenous American Tradition, and whom are causing American Governance to adhere to occultist method; well then, if anybody they back is winning, life is loosing.

But if they were to free themselves from the strangle hold of occultist control of Christian Churches whom are not being governed by true believers (believers in Revelations at least if not the full Prophesy as Mohammed -blessing Him- revealed), why then, why would they want to 'win' in Iraq?

waram
Waram

[MTAFFI]

Insurgents stop killing everyone? And who has the US killed? Noone?

mostly insurgents, definitely far less civilians than this "resistance" you seem to back