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Metalman
10-28-2006, 01:21 AM
Hello this looks like an old discussion, but this topic was a big one for me when i was a muslim.
I was engaged to a sister who followed hadith. I was a new muslim and was still reading the Quran.
Near the end of the quran i realized that some of what i was being told to do wasn't anywhere in the Quran. That infact it came from another source other than Allah. But it is written in the Quran that Allah provided us with everything we needed to know, that the Quran was perfectand complete.

6:114 Am I, then, to look unto anyone but God for judgment as to what is right and wrong, when it is He who has bestowed upon you from on high this divine writ, clearly spelling out the truth?" And those unto whom We have vouchsafed revelation aforetime know that this one, too, has been bestowed from on high, step by step, by thy Sustainer. Be not, then, among the doubters

16:89 for one Day We shall raise up within every community a witness against them from among themselves. And thee [too, O Prophet,] have We brought forth to bear witness regarding those [whom thy message may have reached], inasmuch as We have bestowed from on high upon thee, step by step, this divine writ, to make everything clear, and to provide guidance and grace and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God.

So are hadith followers among the doubters? for they think they need to look outside the Quran for guidance. When infact you don't NEED to at all. You may choose to pray the way it says in hadiths, but need? Allah was perfectly clear on what we need.
obey the Prophit in as far as the Quran as revealed to him, anything else is personal choice. some may seek a way of praying that comes from the heart.
I personally found i was paying more attention to doing the movements right and pronouncing the arabic right then i was thinking about Allah which was the whole point anyway.
so i was told i am not a muslim by numerous other muslims. my engagemnet was broken off, and here i am.

Peace
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*charisma*
10-28-2006, 01:52 AM
Hey,

6:114 Am I, then, to look unto anyone but God for judgment as to what is right and wrong, when it is He who has bestowed upon you from on high this divine writ, clearly spelling out the truth?" And those unto whom We have vouchsafed revelation aforetime know that this one, too, has been bestowed from on high, step by step, by thy Sustainer. Be not, then, among the doubters
This ayah speaks of the doubters of Allah and the Quran, not ahadith.

أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلا وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِنْ رَبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ فَلا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ

006.114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

So are hadith followers among the doubters? for they think they need to look outside the Quran for guidance. When infact you don't NEED to at all. You may choose to pray the way it says in hadiths, but need? Allah was perfectly clear on what we need.
The first thing we follow is the word of Allah, the Quran. Ahadith are provided for us as examples of the Prophet (pbuh). Allah sent down the prophet to teach us how to pray amongst other things because he was one of us, a human. Besides that, there are ahadith that are categorized into being sahih (true) and da'eef (weak). The Quran is our guidance, and Ahadith is just a bit extra to keep us on the straight path. It makes it even easier for us. We don't follow ahadith because we are in doubt of what Allah has told us in the Quran, but rather they are like the extentions of the verses...the visual aid.

I personally found i was paying more attention to doing the movements right and pronouncing the arabic right then i was thinking about Allah which was the whole point anyway.
so i was told i am not a muslim by numerous other muslims. my engagemnet was broken off, and here i am.
Whoever told you that has issues, seriously. When you are struggling to try to do something right for the sake of Allah (pronouncing the arabic words right, movements) you are going through Jihad, in which Allah rewards soo much for subhanallah. To have the determination to do it right is concentrating on Allah. Besides, when you think of Allah there are many other ways to do it, not just through prayer. You can do it through praise, dhikr, du'a (supplication), dawah, charity, and recitation.

peace
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*charisma*
10-28-2006, 02:09 AM
I just also wanted to add something a bro here said:

Originally Posted by Ahmed
Using the Qur'an tell me how mank rak'ah in each salat, what must be recited in salah, how do we shorten our salat when travelling?

The Quran tells you to cut off the hand of the theif. Will you cut it off of children? An insane man? Or a person that was starving to death so he had to steal food? The Quran mentions some rulings regarding Prayer, i.e shortening of it when traveling but it does not tell you HOW this is to be done. The same applies to fasting and the same applies to Zakat.

Your problem is that you dont understand exactly what the Ahadith are and the rigorous system by which they are classified. Hadith rejectors are simply laymen who come across a hadith that they dont understand and thus they reject it because it doesnt make any sense to them.
Heres the rest of that thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...-hadith-8.html

Ahadith help with unification. The Ummah needs to be unified. In the quran everyone is told how to pray..how bad would it look in makkah if we didn't have ahadith to tell us how to pray the same way? lol
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Metalman
10-28-2006, 02:09 AM
ok Thanks for your reply,
so i can't reach salvation by following the Quran the words of Allah alone? Even though Allah says that all i need is in the Quran.
and why am I considered not a muslim if i only follow the teachings of the Quran in there perfect detailed and complete form?
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*charisma*
10-28-2006, 02:14 AM
ok Thanks for your reply,
so i can't reach salvation by following the Quran the words of Allah alone? Even though Allah says that all i need is in the Quran.
and why am I considered not a muslim if i only follow the teachings of the Quran in there perfect detailed and complete form?
Ekhi, Islam is Quran and Sunnah. You can teach the Quran, but firstly unless you know arabic, there would be many verses you wont be able to explain correctly, and even then still there are some verses that only Allah knows the meaning of.

I guess since we posted at the same time, you didn't get to read my other post.

Btw,if you don't mind me asking.. if your heart is still in Islam or atleast the quran, why did you choose reject it completely..seeing it says you're athiest?

peace
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Metalman
10-28-2006, 02:18 AM
sorry i am new to forums and don't know how to quote other people in that way you do.
quote:
The Quran mentions some rulings regarding Prayer, i.e shortening of it when traveling but it does not tell you HOW this is to be done. The same applies to fasting and the same applies to Zakat.

shortening prayer and fasting are not complicated consepts. the quran is complete therefore if your saying Allah left something out maybe he meant for us to use our own judgemnet. who couldn't figure out how to fast or shorten a prayer without step by step instructions?
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Metalman
10-28-2006, 02:23 AM
quote:
Btw,if you don't mind me asking.. if your heart is still in Islam or atleast the quran, why did you choose reject it completely..seeing it says you're athiest?

i am labelled that by my brothers and sisters i guess i am just upset about the whole thing so i put down atheist. if i am considered not a muslim then i would rather be an atheist than a christian.
in a way i am keeping with the first part of the shahada until my issues are resolved.
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Umar001
10-28-2006, 02:24 AM
By reading the Hadeeth you are following the Qu'ran.

How many times does the Qu'ran say things like:

Refer it back to the prophet? or They will not have faith till they set you, meaning muhammad, as a judge between them.....

This is something us Muslims have to do, refer things back to the Prophet, and make the prophet's rulings the one's we go by, Why would Allah put this on us if we don't have the prophet? Allah does not burden a soul over it's limit.

Yet we do have the prophet here, speaking about the rulings and so forth, we have them, so those actions being refered to, i,e, putting him as a judge is applicable.

I hope am makin sense
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*charisma*
10-28-2006, 02:27 AM
sorry i am new to forums and don't know how to quote other people in that way you do.
highlight whatever you want to quote, and click the quote icon

shortening prayer and fasting are not complicated consepts. the quran is complete therefore if your saying Allah left something out maybe he meant for us to use our own judgemnet. who couldn't figure out how to fast or shorten a prayer without step by step instructions?
Firstly, human beings are flawed lol. Some can't think for themselves. Secondly, when we pray it has to look distinct that we are muslims. That is what seperates Islam from other faiths. If someone saw you praying the Islamic way, they could right away tell that you're muslim and it will arise questions, in which we can introduce them to Quran and such. Get what I mean?

Also, Allah says to us:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لا تُقَدِّمُوا بَيْنَ يَدَيِ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
049.001 O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger; but fear Allah: for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things.

If Allah has given us a message, we should follow it first. If it is not clear, we refer to the Prophet's ways, if it is still not clear then we follow our own hearts.

peace
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Metalman
10-28-2006, 02:33 AM
yes i completely get what your saying, and the part about us praying that way so we look distinct, maybe even unified is a beautiful thing to be sure.
and when praying in groups or in public i can see a reason to do it that way. but what about alone? to have eternal salvation you don't need to do it that way yes?
but i agree we would all look pretty crazy praying 100 different ways at friday worship lol
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Ansar Al-'Adl
10-28-2006, 02:34 AM
:sl:
There is no such thing as "following the Qur'an alone" since following the Qur'an ENTAILS practing the Ahâdîth. i.e. one must accept the Sunnah of the Prophet saws in order to be following the Qur'an.

This issue has been discussed ad nauseum and the proofs have been given repeatedly in the following thread where multiple hadith-rejectors attempted to substantiate their claims but failed and were refuted:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ct-hadith.html

:w:

:threadclo
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