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Chuck
06-24-2005, 09:19 PM
I read on another forum that it means "awaited Saviour"?

Link: http://www.comparative-religion.com/...2&postcount=24
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Bittersteel
06-24-2005, 09:22 PM
it is also in way conected to my question I believe.

Was Mohammad(PBUH) mentioned in the Bible?Is regarded as false prophet or the opposite?
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Chuck
06-24-2005, 09:38 PM
it is also in way conected to my question I believe.

Was Mohammad(PBUH) mentioned in the Bible?Is regarded as false prophet or the opposite?
I don't know what question you are talking about. But for now forget that it is related to Bible or Muhammad (pbuh)... First, findout the exact meaning of Periklytos impartially without any preconceived notions.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-24-2005, 10:15 PM
:sl:
Unfortunately the only info I have is related to Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

209
Who is the Comforter?

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the
word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which
sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being
[yet] present with you. But the Comforter, [which is] the
Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he
shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I
leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the
world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be
troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I
said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If
ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto
the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I
have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is
come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk
much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and
hath nothing in me. But that the world may know that I
love the Father; and as the Father gave me
commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.” -
John 14:24-31.

210
John 14 records the second occurrence of the
prince of the world. Jesus mentions here that the
Comforter will teach us all things and bring to our
remembrance the true teachings of Christ. Notice the
words “which is” in brackets. Why the brackets?
Because these words do not appear in the original koine
Greek of John. This is a gloss in the text that the
translators have added to make it easy for you to believe
what they are telling you to believe. The Comforter is
called the Holy Ghost here. In the Codex Sinaiticus (375
CE), the oldest living codex of the Bible on earth, the
Greek reads "Paraklaytos pneuma” or “the Comforter,
the Spirit.” There is no occurrence of the fabricated
“Holy” anywhere. Again, Christian scholars have tried
to pull one over on you by adding their own personal
flavor to a text that is supposed to be from the infallible
God. Indeed we are told in the Qur’an: “And remember
Jesus the son of Mary said ‘O Children of Israel, I am
the Messenger of God sent unto you, confirming the
Law which came before me, and giving you glad tidings
of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be
Ahmad” (Qur’an 61:6).Why Ahmad and not
Muhammad? According to the sound hadith, the final
messenger of God’s name on earth is Muhammad and in
the heavens he is known as “Ahmad.” A spiritual name
indicative of his moqam (station), Moqama Mahmood.
Jesus, being a purely spiritual prophet, naturally uses the
heavenly name for this great Messenger who will teach
us all things. What is the Moqama Mahmood? In the
RCV (Roman Catholic Version) of the Bible, the
Paraklaytos is called “Intercessor.” Here is our answer.
The heavenly station of Muhammad is mutashaf'i, the
one who intercedes. The verse continues: “Hereafter I
will not talk much with you; for the prince of this world
cometh, and hath nothing in me.” What does “hath
nothing in me” mean? In other translations, this is
rendered “he has no power over me.” This simply means
211
that the prince will be similar to Jesus, of like nature.
Yusuf Ali says in note 5438:

“Ahmed”, or “Muhummed”, the Praised one, is
almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In
the present Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7,
the word “Comforter” in the English version for the
Greek word “Paracletos”, which means “Advocate,”
“one called to the help of another, a kind friend,”
rather than “Comforter.” Our doctors contend that
Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos and
that in the original saying of Jesus there was a
prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmed by name.
Even if we read Paraclete, it would apply to the
Holy Prophet, who is “a Mercy for all creatures”
(H.Q. 21:107) and “most kind and merciful to the
Believers” (H.Q. 9:128). See also note 416 to H.Q.
3:81.

Jesus says: “If ye love me, keep my
commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall
give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you
for ever; [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world
cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and
shall be in you” (John 14:15-17). Notice the word
“another.” So who is the first Comforter? I John 2:1:
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye
sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with
the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” Don’t be fooled
by the word “advocate.” The Greek is actually
Paraklaytos. Hence, Jesus is the first Comforter. The
next Comforter will abide with us forever, which means
that his teaching will be for all and it will never die.
Why do we as Muslims grow our beards, eat with our
right hands, and sleep on our right sides? The answer is
because we want to emulate the perfect and timeless
example of our Holy Prophet! And as long as we
212
continue to implement his shining life example
(Sunnah), he will remain eternally alive in the hearts and
minds of over a billion of our faithful worldwide. Every
time Christians are faced with an issue in which there is
no explicit answer found within their scripture, they ask
themselves, “What would Jesus do (WWJD)?” You can
find this tetragrammaton written on many bumper
stickers, t-shirts, and belt buckles. It’s time for us to
respond to this question by saying, “I have no idea what
Jesus would do but I can tell you what Muhammad did.”
Jesus says:

“But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be
fulfilled that is written in their law, they hated me
without a cause. But when the Comforter is come, whom
I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of
truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify
of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have
been with me from the beginning.” – John 15:25-27.

There is no doubt that Jesus was hated by his
own people: “He came unto his own, and his own
received him not” (John 1:11). The Children of Israel
insulted, slandered, and even attempted to kill their
Messiah. Although Jesus was truly a Messenger of God,
the overwhelming majority of Jews rejected him, calling
him a false prophet and deceiver. Christ is redeemed by
the Comforter who testifies to the truth of the Jewish
Messiah and requires the Children of Israel to accept
him once and for all. Allah reveals the following through
His Holy Prophet regarding Jesus:

• Jesus was given “clear signs” and “strength from the
Holy Spirit.” – Qur’an 2:87, 253.
• The revelation of Jesus (Gospel) was truly from
God. – Qur’an 2:136.
• The Gospel of Jesus was a true guide for mankind. –
Qur’an 3:3.
213
• The mother of Jesus was “chosen above the women
of all nations.” – Qur’an 3:42.
• Jesus is “a word from God” and “held in honor in
this world and among those nearest to God in the
next.” – Qur’an 3:45.
• Jesus was in the company of the most righteous. –
Qur’an 3:46.
• The mother of Jesus was a virgin. – Qur’an 3:47.
• Jesus was taught “the Book and wisdom, the Law
and the Gospel.” – Qur’an 3:48.
• Jesus could perform miracles such as healing the
blind and lepers and even raise the dead. – Qur’an
3:49.
• The disciples of Jesus were righteous submitters
unto God’s Will. – Qur’an 3:52.
• The Gospel of Jesus is described further as
“guidance”, “light,” and “an admonition for those
who fear God.” – Qur’an 5:46.
• Jesus and his cousin John the Baptist are “in the
ranks of the righteous.” – Qur’an 6:85.
• Jesus defended his mother’s honor and chastity
against her enemies. – Qur’an 19:30.
• Jesus is “blessed wheresoever he is.” – Qur’an
19:31.
• Jesus was “granted favor” by God and “made an
example to the Children of Israel.” – Qur’an 43:59.
• Jesus will be a “sign of the coming hour of
judgment.” – Qur’an 43:61.
• The true followers of Jesus exhibit “compassion and
mercy in their hearts as ordained by God.” – Qur’an
57:27.

Holy Spirit cannot be the Comforter

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you
that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will
not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto
214
you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of
sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin,
because they believe not on me; Of righteousness,
because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of
judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I
have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of
himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he
speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall
glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew
[it] unto you.” – John 16:7-14.

The Spirit of Truth (al-Ameen), the Comforter
(al-Mutashaf'i), and the prince of this world (rahmatal-
lil ‘alamin) all find prophetic fulfillment in the person of
Muhammad. Here the prince is again identified with the
Paraklaytos. Compare the words, “he shall not speak of
himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he
speak” to “and I shall put my words into his mouth, and
he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him”
(Deuteronomy 18:18). In verse 13 Jesus uses an
unprecedented seven masculine pronouns to drive to
point home that the Comforter is going to be a man.
Now the coming of the Paraklaytos is conditional in the
above verse. Therefore, it can never be the Holy Ghost
or Spirit which the Christian claims. Jesus must go in
order for the Comforter to come. The Gospels, however,
tell us that the Holy Ghost (Spirit) was already present in
the world prior to and during the earthly ministry of
Jesus.

• “For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight
of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong
drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost,
even from his mother’s womb.” - Luke 1:15.

215
• “And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb;
and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.” –
Luke 1:41.
• “And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy
Ghost...” - Luke 1:67.

• “And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape
like a dove upon him, and a voice came from
heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in
thee I am well pleased.” - Luke 3:22. Also see Matt
3:16; Mark 1:10; John 1:32.

• “And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the
wilderness.” – Luke 4:1.

All of these occurred before Jesus’ statement,
“for if I do not go, he will not come unto you.” The
prince of this world is “judged?” What does this mean?
Again, there are some word-games being played here.
The Greek kreeno here rendered “judged” also has
primary and secondary definitions of “to select, pick out,
choose, prefer, esteem, approve” according to the LSC.
Back to Isaiah 42: “Behold my servant, whom I uphold;
mine Chosen One, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have
put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to
the Gentiles.” This verse should read: “Of judgment,
because the prince of this world is chosen.”
For your information: There was actually a mid-
second century sect of Christians (150 CE) called
Montanists whose founder, Montanus, claimed to be the
Paraklaytos foretold in the Gospel of John! – Don’t
forget that John’s Gospel was written around 100 CE.
This is a pretty good indication of how early Christians
viewed the nature of the Comforter.

What about the “Pentecostal experience?”
You may hear from many Christians that Jesus
(in John 14, 16) was actually referring to the Day of
Pentecost described in Acts 2. In verse 16, however,
Peter makes a comment that it was actually the Prophet
Joel who prophesied this event and not Jesus.
Interestingly, this crucial tidbit has been quietly
expunged from many modern translations including the
Revised English Bible. Furthermore, the Comforter was
supposed to “guide us unto all truth” (John 16:13). Ask
your Christian friend for just one piece of truth that he
has gained from the Day of Pentecost. Just one. What
exactly did we learn from the mysterious ranting of these
men? Nothing! Their words are not even recorded. In
fact, the bystanders who witnessed this event thought
that they were listening to the alcohol induced ramblings
of drunken fools (Acts 2:13)! How did the Day of
Pentecost “reprove the world of sin, of righteousness,
and of judgment?” This Christian claim grossly
undermines the nature of the mission of the true
Comforter.
I hope this helps.

:w:
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Preacher
06-24-2005, 10:22 PM
There are other way to explore the answers. How about checking these links out.

http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/ot1.htm

For more prophecies over a dozen click on:

http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/Bible.htm
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Preacher
06-24-2005, 10:45 PM
The question that begs for an answer is that why it has to be "Greek" word to start the ghost hunt? Christians cannot tell what was the mother tongue of Jesus. Top Christian scholars have gross disagreements on this issue and they can't tell conclusively what was the mother tongue of Jesus.

First let us examine the prophecy using the NT and the Qur'an:
John 14:16, 26-27, 29-30; John 15:26 & John 16: 7-14

014:016 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

014:026 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

014:027 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

014:029 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 014:030 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

015:026 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

016:007 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 016:008 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 016:009 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 016:010 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 016:011 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 016:012 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 016:013 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 016:014 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

003:011 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This prophecy needs to be understood with context that is scattered in different places in the gospels for clear and better understanding. We also notice that this prophecy is the final words of Jesus, before his departure. We can safely also call it the “Will of Jesus” since this is what Jesus told and directed his disciples that:
They should not grieve on the conspiracy and mischief of the Jews and their attempt to kill him.
He (Jesus) would just depart to a place where no rejecting Jew could be able to reach (Heaven)
He will return later before the Day of Judgment.
Jesus is foretelling the arrival of Comforter or Paraclete whose name will be Ahmad (another name of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
The Paraclete or Comforter will glorify Jesus, means salvage his honor.
That Paraclete or Comforter will be mightier than Jesus (Matthew 3:11).
The Paraclete or Comforter will punish those who did not believe (the Jews) in Jesus.
The Paraclete or Comforter will be a prince of faith and the world; who will be so exalted that “I (Jesus) ‘hath nothing in me of him.”

Glorious Qur’aan 61:6 says:

And (remember) when 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Taurat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed. But when he (Ahmed i.e. Muhammad SAW) came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic.

The original word in this prophecy was Ahmad, which still exists in the Gospel of Barnabas.

Sometimes an argument is tossed by Jews and Christians if it is really so then what prevented all the contemporary Jewish and Christian doctors from becoming Muslims?

Christians themselves may elicit the short and simple answer by employing the Bible itself that Jesus may blame to those who did not accept Islaam. “They believe not in me.” (John 16:10), that is to say, “believing they believe not.”
Let us now talk about what was the mother tongue of Jesus?

Christians have no conclusive evidence about the mother tongue of Christ, since documentation of his full saying never existed. Thus, the dilemma of Christians’ ignorance is that their scholars disagree about the tongue Jesus’ sayings may have been uttered in. The gospels and Christian writers from early age to present have failed to provide any answer with certainty. Among the guesswork of early scholars in this regard, there is:

A Galilaean dialect of Chaldic {J. J. Scaliger}
Syriac {Claude Saumaise}
Dialect of Onkelos and Jonathan {Brian Walton}
Greek (Vossius)
Hebrew (Delitzsch and Resch)
Aramaic (Meyer)
And even Latin. (Inchofer, for “the Lord cannot have used any other language upon earth, since this is the language of the saints in heaven”){Schweitzer, pp. 271, 275}


The above facts are the direct cause that resulted in creation of different text types in the Christians’ cock-and-bull story AKA New Testament, to be exact these different text types (poles apart from each other) are:

The Alexandrian Text.
The Western Text.
The Caesarean Text.
The Byzantine Text

As we see that Christian scholars do not agree at all on this issue. So, why Muslims even allow Christians to post or claims some gobbledygook or take Greek as final source to initiate a dialogue?

By the way, never forget that we have OT, NT and Qur'an in support of our claims and Christians don't have anything to stand upon except the quicksand.

Regards
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Chuck
06-24-2005, 10:47 PM
On the other forum some says he knows classical greek and word means awaited saviour... I don't know if this is true.

Anyway, the problem with the transaltion 'comforter,' the standard translation in Bible:
In his book "Muhammed in the Bible", Professor `Abdul-Ahad Dawud, formerly Rev. David Benjamin Keldani, Roman Catholic Bishop of Uramiah, submits a much more eloquent and scholarly presentation in defense of these assertions, far beyond the limited abilities of this humble author. For those who which to read a truly scholarly study of this matter, you may obtain a copy of that book. The following is a very brief quotation from that book:

"The 'Paraclete' does not signify either 'consoler' or 'advocate'; in truth, it is not a classical word at all. The Greek orthography of the word is Paraklytos which in ecclesiastical literature is made to mean 'one called to aid, advocate, intercessor' (Dict. Grec.-Francais, by Alexandre). One need not profess to be a Greek scholar to know that the Greek word for 'comforter or consoler' is not 'Paraclytos' but 'Paracalon'. I have no Greek version of the Septuagint with me, but I remember perfectly well that the Hebrew word for 'comforter' (mnahem) in the Lamentations of Jeremiah (I. 2, 9, 16, 17, 21, etc.) is translated into Parakaloon, from the verb Parakaloo, which means to call to, invite, exhort, console, pray, invoke. It should be noticed that there is a long alpha vowel after the consonant kappa in the 'Paracalon' which does not exist in the 'Paraclytos.' In the phrase (He who consoles us in all our afflictions) 'paracalon' and not 'Paraclytos' is used. (I exhort, or invite, thee to work). Many other examples can be cited here. There is another Greek word for comforter or consoler, i.e. "Parygorytys' from 'I console'.....The proper Greek term for 'advocate' is Sunegorus and for 'intercessor' or 'mediator' Meditea" (Muhammad in the Bible, Prof. Abdul-`Ahad Dawud, pp. 208-209)
Also ,the words "another Paraclete." If the comforter is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus (peace be upon him), a human being and a prophet, not a ghost. The actual Greek word used was the word "allon" which is the masculine accusative form of "allos" {al'-los}: "Another of the SAME kind." The Greek word for "another of a different kind" is "heteros" {het'-er-os}.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...?t=1969&page=2
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Preacher
06-24-2005, 11:07 PM
Muslims should outright reject the Christians' gobbledygook, which they advance to stupefy Muslims and demand that where their response can be verified in their New Testament. Because every Christian has an (absurd) answer, so you have millions of answers and no two are alike. Let me give you ammunition to impeach Christians of this spin.

Here is the fact from the NT.

Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit as a separate entity from all other things.

In MARK 3:28,29

"Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29
but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" --

Whoever blasphemes against the Holy spirit has no forgiveness. But isn’t the Holy Spirit just one person in a trinity. What about the Father and the son? What about the blasphemy against them?

This also raises the question of an unforgivable sin. If Jesus’ sacrifice was to wash away the sins of those who believe in him then why cant believing in Jesus enable a person to be forgiven of this blasphemy. This is something that even Jesus’ sacrifice can’t forgive, why?

Another question that begs for answer is that why did Jesus used the word/term "Comforter" to confuse his followers who are/were allegedlly more fasmiliar with Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? Also we need Jesus' explanation of exegesis stating that he applied this word to Holy Ghost, but again; Christians have another dilemma that this word in the dictionary of the Bible does not connotes to "Holy Ghost or Holy Spirity."

So if we examine the prophecy in the John's gospel and the above, they just simply don't add up and there is no way it can be harmonized.

Regards
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Bittersteel
06-25-2005, 02:50 PM
From another forum A member posted:

parakletos...you might mean.
Since there is no periklytos in the greek Bible.

Counselor Or "Helper." It is a legal term, but with a broader
meaning than "counsel for the defense" (see 1Jn 2:1). It referred to
any person who helped someone in trouble with the law. The Spirit
will always stand by Christ's people (1625).
Reply

mansio
06-26-2005, 09:56 AM
Preacher


Everybody knows, and Christians more than the others, that Jesus spoke Aramaic, his mother language.
He certainly knew Hebrew as well.
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Preacher
06-26-2005, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by mansio
Preacher


Everybody knows, and Christians more than the others, that Jesus spoke Aramaic, his mother language.
He certainly knew Hebrew as well.
mansio

There is no substitute of common sense and there is no rehabilitation of stupidity. I think you don't know this yet, which is why you made such absurd and declaratory statement.

The guesswork of early scholars about the mother tongue of Jesus is as follows, I have quouted few top early scholars:

A Galilaean dialect of Chaldic {J. J. Scaliger}
Syriac {Claude Saumaise}
Dialect of Onkelos and Jonathan {Brian Walton}
Greek (Vossius)
Hebrew (Delitzsch and Resch)
Aramaic (Meyer)
And even Latin. (Inchofer, for “the Lord cannot have used any other language upon earth, since this is the language of the saints in heaven”){Schweitzer, pp. 271, 275}

The above facts are the direct cause that resulted in creation of different text types in the Christians’ cock-and-bull story AKA New Testament, to be exact these different text types (poles apart from each other) are:

The Alexandrian Text.
The Western Text.
The Caesarean Text.
The Byzantine Text

Note: The names of scholars are in red text.

mansio, the reality is that Christianity is an outbreeak of falsehood. So if you think that your opinion based on conjecture can take precedent over these scholars, than you have to have your head examined.

Regards
Reply

Bittersteel
06-26-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted in another forum

parakletos...you might mean.
Since there is no periklytos in the greek Bible.

Counselor Or "Helper." It is a legal term, but with a broader
meaning than "counsel for the defense" (see 1Jn 2:1). It referred to
any person who helped someone in trouble with the law. The Spirit
will always stand by Christ's people (1625).
this can also refer to Mohamamd(PBUH) can't it?
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