/* */

PDA

View Full Version : for the agnostic members...



syilla
11-01-2006, 06:22 AM
hello...

i just want to know...how do you worship god?

thank you...

just me
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
------
11-01-2006, 11:14 AM
Yeh... but do they worship God or not? I mean they not sure if He exists in the first place...
Reply

learningislam
11-01-2006, 11:24 AM
:salamext:

And how do you define...an agnostic...?

which religion they follow?

:wasalamex
Reply

Umm Khalid06
11-01-2006, 03:25 PM
Agnosticism is a concept, not a full religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God. However, many people have started with an Agnosticism, and have added a moral code, rituals and other items to create a belief system with many of the attributes of a religion.

When asked what their religion is, many Agnostics will reply "Agnostic." Since so many Agnostics regard this as their religion, we have a policy of capitalizing the term out of respect, as we do for all religions on this web site. This is not often seen on the Internet, but we feel that it is appropriate.

Agnosticism implies uncertainty about the existence of God. The basic problem here is that there are many answers to the question "Does God exist?" However there is only this one term available to cover all of the meanings. Some of today's possible overlapping answers to the question are:

I don't personally know.
I don't know but will lead my life in the assumption that no God exists.
I don't know but will lead my life assuming that God does exist.
I cannot give an opinion because there is no way that we can prove the existence or non-existence of God given currently available knowledge.
I cannot give an opinion because there is no way to know, with certainty, anything about God, now and in the future.
Yes, God exists. But we do not know anything about God at this time.
Yes, God exists. But we have no possibility of knowing anything about God, now or in the future.
Ultimately, the term "Agnostic" is something like "Christianity." Both refer to a wide diversity of belief systems, but in many cases, an individual asserts that their particular definition is the only fully valid one.


The one principle linking all meanings of "Agnostic" is that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

sister is that what you wented to know
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
wilberhum
11-01-2006, 07:19 PM
for the agnostic member
Is that for “Any” agnostic member, or did you have someone special in mind?
I will assume that you meant “members”.
I am an agnostic. I believe in god but accept, as a real possibility, that god does not exist.
I don’t believe we have any knowledge of god and I do not believe in prophets.

So, how do I worship god? It is really quite simple and informal. I frequently just talk to him. I seldom, if ever, ask for anything. I just tell him thanks for life and all good things that have happened to me.
No complexity, no rituals, I do it anytime anyplace.
Reply

snakelegs
11-01-2006, 08:05 PM
agnostics are extemely diverse - some believe in god and some don't, but they are not religious about it like atheists are. i think the one thing we would have in common is that ultimately, there is much that is simply unknowable.
speaking only for myself, i worship by feeling thankfulness, contemplating the wonders of nature and listening to qawwali music. ( :D )
like wilber, i talk to god too.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-01-2006, 08:06 PM
wilberhum do you feel any responce? have you ever tried bowing to God?

btw im very happy to hear that you thank him :)
Reply

glo
11-01-2006, 08:20 PM
You have to bear in mind that agnosticism is a 'sliding scale'

I am a Christian. I have a clear belief of who God is and what he is like, based on the Bible and Christian doctrine.

And yet, I have certain agnostic tendencies, in the sense that I don't think humans can ever and fully claim to totally know and understand God - because God is, by definition, beyond human comprehension!

Peace
Reply

Umm Khalid06
11-01-2006, 08:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
agnostics are extemely diverse - some believe in god and some don't, but they are not religious about it like atheists are. i think the one thing we would have in common is that ultimately, there is much that is simply unknowable.
speaking only for myself, i worship by feeling thankfulness, contemplating the wonders of nature and listening to qawwali music . ( :D )
like wilber, i talk to god too.
what is qawwali music :? what kind of music:?
Reply

wilberhum
11-01-2006, 08:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
wilberhum do you feel any responce? have you ever tried bowing to God?

btw im very happy to hear that you thank him :)
Do I feel any responce? No, I didn't feel any response when I use to bow.
If you believe god wants you to bow to him, what can I say other then we see god differently?
Reply

snakelegs
11-01-2006, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lilly_rose
what is qawwali music :? what kind of music:?
sufi music from pakistan and india. so i hear about god, mohammad, ali etc etc all day long!
life is funny, huh?
Reply

north_malaysian
11-02-2006, 04:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I frequently just talk to him.
Like talking something VERBALLY or in your mind?
Reply

wilberhum
11-18-2006, 08:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Like talking something VERBALLY or in your mind?
Sorry for such a long time to reply. I had a nasty accident on 11/2.
But to answer your question, the talking is not physical, just mental.
Reply

Les_Nubian
11-18-2006, 09:26 PM
Agnostic=someone desperate to discover God, but sees no signs. Lol.

Not exactly the definition. Just my humerous version of it, because I used to be there.

It's really just someone who sees no proof for God--doesn't exactly believe in a God, but doesn't totally rule out the possibility if someday proven that God does exist, somehow.

And Mr. Muslim Thinkier, I seriously don't understand how your screen name corresponds with your "way of life" description, and I don't get that post you just made above. I'm confused!
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-19-2006, 11:55 PM
I think most people are agnostic if you take that word in its literal sense.

Pretty much all atheists are agnostic, as they'll admit they are not 100% certain that there is no God or Gods. I think most theists are also agnostic and only the hard core ones have no doubt whatsoever as to the existence of their God.

So the question "how do agnostics worship?" is really not answerable, for some worship and some don't, and those who do don't do it in the same ways.
Reply

sevgi
01-31-2007, 08:02 AM
cool..thanks...dnt u ever feel the need to be believeing? like...dont u feel insecure and out of control sometimes? ive always wanted to ask this.

in one of the threads u said u'd be dead and rotten in 20 years...why do u think such a thing...?i asked u there but u didnt go bak and check so maybe u can go bak n check n reply.:)
Reply

snakelegs
01-31-2007, 08:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sumeyye
cool..thanks...dnt u ever feel the need to be believeing? like...dont u feel insecure and out of control sometimes? ive always wanted to ask this.

in one of the threads u said u'd be dead and rotten in 20 years...why do u think such a thing...?i asked u there but u didnt go bak and check so maybe u can go bak n check n reply.:)
well, i do believe in god - just not religion. i don't feel out of control - like anyone else, sometimes i feel insecure and overwhelmed by the world around me.
i know, it's hard to understand.
ok - will go back to the other thread, but to save you the trip - i'm 62 and can't really see myself at 82, tho i guess it's not impossible.
Reply

sevgi
01-31-2007, 08:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
well, i do believe in god - just not religion. i don't feel out of control - like anyone else, sometimes i feel insecure and overwhelmed by the world around me.
i know, it's hard to understand.
ok - will go back to the other thread, but to save you the trip - i'm 62 and can't really see myself at 82, tho i guess it's not impossible.
i know that atheists dnt believe in god...but i thought agnostics didnt believe in god either. like even when u look up the meaning of agnostic, it will tell u that agnostics believ that that there is no theory or explanation behind philosophical and theological theories, including the existence of god...they believe that its not known.do u consider urself an orthodox agnostic or half half?
Reply

sevgi
01-31-2007, 08:14 AM
u dnt have to reply by the way,,,and thanks for ur answer..wow,,,62,,,congratulations.:D ur like three times older than me.:D
Reply

tomtomsmom
01-31-2007, 02:28 PM
I consider myself to be agnostic but after reading this I am not so sure. I guess I just have a different view of it so here is what I think. There is a god and there is a devil. There is a heaven and there is a hell. I always try to be a good person. I help those who need help. I love those who need to be loved. I am kind to those who need kindness. There are so many different religions out there and they all say that they are right and the others are wrong. Who am I to say which one is really the right one? What if I chose the wrong one? I can only hope that if I die today that god will see that I am trying to honor him in the only way I know how and that is by beliveing that he is real and by being a good person. As for talking to him- I thank him out loud and in my head daily for giving me a beatuiful son who is healthy and a loving husband that takes care of both of us. I ask him to watch over those who are sick and need help. And I ask for his protection against all of the evils in the world. If not for myself then to at least protect my son when I can not. Ok so I am crying now so explanation over. Hope this answers your questions.
Reply

syilla
01-31-2007, 02:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
I consider myself to be agnostic but after reading this I am not so sure. I guess I just have a different view of it so here is what I think. There is a god and there is a devil. There is a heaven and there is a hell. I always try to be a good person. I help those who need help. I love those who need to be loved. I am kind to those who need kindness. There are so many different religions out there and they all say that they are right and the others are wrong. Who am I to say which one is really the right one? What if I chose the wrong one? I can only hope that if I die today that god will see that I am trying to honor him in the only way I know how and that is by beliveing that he is real and by being a good person. As for talking to him- I thank him out loud and in my head daily for giving me a beatuiful son who is healthy and a loving husband that takes care of both of us. I ask him to watch over those who are sick and need help. And I ask for his protection against all of the evils in the world. If not for myself then to at least protect my son when I can not. Ok so I am crying now so explanation over. Hope this answers your questions.
InshaAllah...when you're sincerely finding Allah subhanahuwata'ala...you will find the true religion. May Allah give you hidayaah and found islam. ameen.
Reply

snakelegs
01-31-2007, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sumeyye
i know that atheists dnt believe in god...but i thought agnostics didnt believe in god either. like even when u look up the meaning of agnostic, it will tell u that agnostics believ that that there is no theory or explanation behind philosophical and theological theories, including the existence of god...they believe that its not known.do u consider urself an orthodox agnostic or half half?
hi,
an agnostic is simply someone who doesn't know. i believe in god but i think there are many things we simply do not/cannot know. some agnostics don't believe in god and some do. most of my life i didn't really have a postition one way or the other and spent very little time thinking about god at all.
there is no such thing as an orthodox agnostic - i think the only thing agnostics would agree on is that ultimately we cannot know the unknowable and that is ok.
personally, i cannot conceive of god belonging to any religion or that any religion could have a monopoly on god.
Reply

mansaf
01-31-2007, 11:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I think most people are agnostic if you take that word in its literal sense.

Pretty much all atheists are agnostic, as they'll admit they are not 100% certain that there is no God or Gods. I think most theists are also agnostic and only the hard core ones have no doubt whatsoever as to the existence of their God.

So the question "how do agnostics worship?" is really not answerable, for some worship and some don't, and those who do don't do it in the same ways.


Let us suppose that an agnostic believe in 50% tha god exists and 50% that god does not exist.

Then out of the 50% chance that god exists, lets suppose there is a 50% chance that you can worship god free style and 50% chance that you must follow a certain religion to avoid hell.

So should not this agnostic try to search for the truth in order to avoid 25% chance of going to hell? In other words, religion must be taken seriously, and worshipping god free style might not be enough.
Reply

wilberhum
01-31-2007, 11:55 PM
If you want 50-50 odds, go to a book maker.
There are two possibilities, god does, or god does not exist. That is not the same as 50-50 odds.
If one of the main reasons you question the existence of god is because everyone has different rules, where do you go to get the correct rules.

As for me, I think the major reason all religions were created had nothing to do with god. So I can’t go to any religion to find out how things should be done.

I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.
Reply

mansaf
02-01-2007, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
If you want 50-50 odds, go to a book maker.
There are two possibilities, god does, or god does not exist. That is not the same as 50-50 odds.
If one of the main reasons you question the existence of god is because everyone has different rules, where do you go to get the correct rules.

As for me, I think the major reason all religions were created had nothing to do with god. So I can’t go to any religion to find out how things should be done.

I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.

that is valid if you believe in whatever you believe 100%. can you prove what you are saying is 100% right? now you sound like a person with a religion that says you can worship god free style.

you are not really agnostic if you believe 100% that you can worship god free style. if you do not believe 100% then why are you ignoring the other part of the probabilty (i.e. that you might have to worship god in a certain way to avoid hell)?
Reply

wilberhum
02-01-2007, 12:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mansaf
that is valid if you believe in whatever you believe 100%. can you prove what you are saying is 100% right? now you sound like a person with a religion that says you can worship god free style.

you are not really agnostic if you believe 100% that you can worship god free style. if you do not believe 100% then why are you ignoring the other part of the probabilty (i.e. that you might have to worship god in a certain way to avoid hell)?
I think it is more probable that god exists. No place close to 100%.

Some people think the way to avoid hell and go to heaven is to go kill other people by blowing themselves up.

As for me, I’ll just say “thanks for a nice day”.

If he exists, he will here me.

If he doesn’t, then is doesn’t matter.
Reply

mansaf
02-01-2007, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think it is more probable that god exists. No place close to 100%.

Some people think the way to avoid hell and go to heaven is to go kill other people by blowing themselves up.

As for me, I’ll just say “thanks for a nice day”.

If he exists, he will here me.

If he doesn’t, then is doesn’t matter.

Again, there is still the chance that you have to follow a religion in order to avoid hell.

And please do not judge Islam by the actions of fool people. Those terrorists do not represent islam and we all muslims along with Quran and Sunnah denounce their actions.
Reply

Malaikah
02-01-2007, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.
Something I don't understand about agnostics, perhaps you can help clear this up for me...

They will say they don't believe in religion etc, and yet they have some kind of understanding of what God is and what He wants. But only someone taught by divine inspiration can know what God is/wants...

On what authority do you claim to know what God is/wants, and how is this different to what you view as fake religions (which, essentially, are based on people who also claim to know what God is/wants)?
Reply

mariam.
02-01-2007, 12:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
I consider myself to be agnostic but after reading this I am not so sure. I guess I just have a different view of it so here is what I think. There is a god and there is a devil. There is a heaven and there is a hell. I always try to be a good person. I help those who need help. I love those who need to be loved. I am kind to those who need kindness. There are so many different religions out there and they all say that they are right and the others are wrong. Who am I to say which one is really the right one? What if I chose the wrong one? I can only hope that if I die today that god will see that I am trying to honor him in the only way I know how and that is by beliveing that he is real and by being a good person. As for talking to him- I thank him out loud and in my head daily for giving me a beatuiful son who is healthy and a loving husband that takes care of both of us. I ask him to watch over those who are sick and need help. And I ask for his protection against all of the evils in the world. If not for myself then to at least protect my son when I can not. Ok so I am crying now so explanation over. Hope this answers your questions.
Hi tomtomsmom .. I hope you are right
I don't know why your words make me cry .. Maybe becouse it's proceed from honest heart ...
I can't said any thing except this Quranic verse:
"And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way."
I hope you try to read Quran .. have you ever read it?
finally .. I hope you read this hadith:
in a sacred hadith: the Prophet peace be upon him mentioned that Allah said: “Myself, Mankind and Jinn are in a great serious state. I create them, then they worship other gods that they make for themselves; I bless them with my bounties, then they thank someone else for what I sent them; My Mercy descends to them while their evil deeds ascend to Me; I endear them with my gifts even though I have no need to any of them while they alienate themselves from Me with their sins even though they are desperate for my help. Whoever returns to Me, I accept him no matter how far he is; and whoever turns away from Me, I approach him and call on him. Whoever leaves a sin for my sake, I reward him with many gifts and whoever seeks to please Me, I seek to please him. Whoever acknowledges My Will and Power in whatever he does, I make the iron bend for his sake. My dear people are those who are with Me (i.e. whoever would like to be with Me, let him supplicate to Me and remember Me). Whoever thanks Me, I grant him more blessings; whoever obeys Me, I raise him and endear him more. Whoever disobeys Me, I keep the doors of My Mercy open for him; if he returns to Me, I bestow him with My Love since I love those who repent and purify themselves for My Sake. If he does not repent, I still treat him by putting them in hardship to purify him. Whoever favors Me over others, I favor them over others. I reward every single good deed ten times over or seven hundred times over to countless times over. I count every single bad deed as one unless the person repents and ask for My Forgiveness in which case I forgive even that one. I take into account any little good deed and I forgive even major sins. My Mercy supersedes My Anger; My Tolerance supersedes My Blame; My Forgiveness supersedes My Punishment as I am more merciful with My slaves than a mother with her child."
may God make you from his pious servants that he loves them .. peace
Reply

tomtomsmom
02-01-2007, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mariam.
Hi tomtomsmom .. I hope you are right
I don't know why your words make me cry .. Maybe becouse it's proceed from honest heart ...
I can't said any thing except this Quranic verse:
"And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way."
I hope you try to read Quran .. have you ever read it?
finally .. I hope you read this hadith:
in a sacred hadith: the Prophet peace be upon him mentioned that Allah said: “Myself, Mankind and Jinn are in a great serious state. I create them, then they worship other gods that they make for themselves; I bless them with my bounties, then they thank someone else for what I sent them; My Mercy descends to them while their evil deeds ascend to Me; I endear them with my gifts even though I have no need to any of them while they alienate themselves from Me with their sins even though they are desperate for my help. Whoever returns to Me, I accept him no matter how far he is; and whoever turns away from Me, I approach him and call on him. Whoever leaves a sin for my sake, I reward him with many gifts and whoever seeks to please Me, I seek to please him. Whoever acknowledges My Will and Power in whatever he does, I make the iron bend for his sake. My dear people are those who are with Me (i.e. whoever would like to be with Me, let him supplicate to Me and remember Me). Whoever thanks Me, I grant him more blessings; whoever obeys Me, I raise him and endear him more. Whoever disobeys Me, I keep the doors of My Mercy open for him; if he returns to Me, I bestow him with My Love since I love those who repent and purify themselves for My Sake. If he does not repent, I still treat him by putting them in hardship to purify him. Whoever favors Me over others, I favor them over others. I reward every single good deed ten times over or seven hundred times over to countless times over. I count every single bad deed as one unless the person repents and ask for My Forgiveness in which case I forgive even that one. I take into account any little good deed and I forgive even major sins. My Mercy supersedes My Anger; My Tolerance supersedes My Blame; My Forgiveness supersedes My Punishment as I am more merciful with My slaves than a mother with her child."
may God make you from his pious servants that he loves them .. peace

I am sorry sister, I do not mean to make you cry, but what you say is true. If words are not spoken from the heart then they are not worth being said. Yes I have been reading the Quran. It is slow going but I try. That is a very beautiful Hadith. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Reply

wilberhum
02-01-2007, 05:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mansaf
Again, there is still the chance that you have to follow a religion in order to avoid hell.

And please do not judge Islam by the actions of fool people. Those terrorists do not represent islam and we all muslims along with Quran and Sunnah denounce their actions.
Sure there is a chance that you have to follow a religion. I think there is much more of a chance that you don't. I don't think god expects anything other that being a good and thankfull person.
And I don't judge anyone based on the actions of others just because they have something in comon.
Reply

wilberhum
02-01-2007, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Something I don't understand about agnostics, perhaps you can help clear this up for me...

They will say they don't believe in religion etc, and yet they have some kind of understanding of what God is and what He wants. But only someone taught by divine inspiration can know what God is/wants...

On what authority do you claim to know what God is/wants, and how is this different to what you view as fake religions (which, essentially, are based on people who also claim to know what God is/wants)?
I don't beleive anyone KNOWS what god wants. I sure don't. I can only make, what I concider, logical assumptions. I don't beleive ANYONE is divinely inspired.
I hope that helps you understand. If you still don't understand, send me a PM or email.
Reply

glo
02-01-2007, 07:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I don't believe anyone KNOWS what god wants. I sure don't. I can only make, what I concider, logical assumptions. I don't beleive ANYONE is divinely inspired.
I hope that helps you understand. If you still don't understand, send me a PM or email.
Hi Wilberhum

You make a good point, and I happen to agree with you.

I am a Christians, and thereby I firmly believe in Christian teaching.
The Bible gives certain explanations and descriptions of God: what he is (i.e. the trinity), and how he is (i.e. characteristics, such as his love and forgiveness, his stance on sin etc. )

Although this gives us some pointers to who God is, I could never ever assume to know God's plans, or even to fully know God.
God, by definition, is outside the sphere of human knowledge and understanding.

I know people who claim to know God.
I find that attitude dangerous! When people start to think they know God anything can happen!


If nothing else, is claiming to know God not arrogant and proud? Does it not fly in the face of humility (which all monotheisitc religions teach)?
The Fall in the garden of Eden, and the story of the Tower of Babel describe situations, when people tried to do just that: become more knowing than God himself. And God's action in those situations makes very clear that that is not an attitude he likes to see!

I think it would be better to say 'God, I don't understand who you are or what you want, but I am willing to let you show me', than to say 'God, I know what you want, and I am just going out to do it ...'

Because I think that, my husband thinks I am an agnostic Christian.
I quite like that description.
I love God, and I am willing to follow him and serve him to the best of my knowledge - and I will (hopefully) never put myself higher than him.

Perhaps some agnostics do better than some tough 'religious types' who are so sure of themselves, they forget to pay attention to God's presence and guidance in the process.

Rant over ... :rolleyes:

Peace :)
Reply

mariam.
02-01-2007, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
I am sorry sister, I do not mean to make you cry, but what you say is true. If words are not spoken from the heart then they are not worth being said. Yes I have been reading the Quran. It is slow going but I try. That is a very beautiful Hadith. Thank you for sharing that with me.
your welcome .. Iam pleased to do so
take care of yourself
peace
Reply

wilberhum
02-01-2007, 08:50 PM
Glo,
You make many good points and explain them well.
Good on You.

Wilber
Reply

syilla
02-02-2007, 02:45 AM
Islamic definition of worship

Worship in Islam has so many facets that it is difficult to describe them all in words. The most general meaning of worship in Islam is inclusive of everything which is pleasing to God, whether they deal with issues of belief, or deeds of the body. It may include everything a person perceives, thinks, intends, feels, says and does. It also refers to everything that God requires, external, internal or interactive. This includes rituals as well as beliefs, work, social activities, and personal behavior, as human being is a whole, such that every part affects every other.
Worship may be classified into two types:
1) Specific Beliefs, feelings and visible acts of devotion paid in homage to God which He has commanded.
2) All other acts of goodness generally encouraged in the life of a Muslim.

source
Reply

glo
02-02-2007, 09:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
Islamic definition of worship

Worship in Islam has so many facets that it is difficult to describe them all in words. The most general meaning of worship in Islam is inclusive of everything which is pleasing to God, whether they deal with issues of belief, or deeds of the body. It may include everything a person perceives, thinks, intends, feels, says and does. It also refers to everything that God requires, external, internal or interactive. This includes rituals as well as beliefs, work, social activities, and personal behavior, as human being is a whole, such that every part affects every other.
Worship may be classified into two types:
1) Specific Beliefs, feelings and visible acts of devotion paid in homage to God which He has commanded.
2) All other acts of goodness generally encouraged in the life of a Muslim.
Greetings, syilla

I think if you replace Islam and Muslim in the above post with Christianity and Christian, it would be just as true a statement.

Christians worship God in many ways - through prayer, song and Bible reading ... but also by serving and doing good to others; in words, thoughts and deeds.
In truth, God deserves our focus and attention every waking moment of the day. :)

Peace
Reply

Eric H
02-02-2007, 06:49 PM
Greetings and peace to you all, a very interesting thread, with some good points.

I suppose I was very much agnostic for around thirty years believing in God and acknowledging him every once in a while.

About ten years ago I was talking about God to my brother in law and why did he believe.

His answer was very simple and it still drives me today, he said if you believe in God then you have to do something.

He did not say what I had to do and that was left to me, but over the years I have come to understand that you show your trust in God by what you are prepared to do in his name.

Faith in God is a journey always one day at a time, some times our faith is strong, and some days we have grave doubts and insecurities about God. Faith is striving to overcome these doubts always one day at a time through our actions.

If and only if God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important thing in our lives because our destiny is finally in his hands.

In the spirit of searching and striving,

Eric
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-02-2007, 10:59 PM
when it comes down to it "agnostic" is a very poorly defined term, as is "atheist". Different people have different definitions.

Many theists define atheists as "People who deny god" or "people who believe go doesn't exist". Most self-proclaimed atheists define atheists as "people who lack a belief in god". Subtle but important difference that leads to a lot of silly semantic quabbles.

Agnostic is similar. Some will say it means "not 100% certain", but I think that applies to most if not all of us. There are those who say it means "unsure". There are those who are really atheists but don't want to say so because of the lack of social acceptance of atheists. And then there are those more hardcore who define it as "a belief that one CAN NOT KNOW" if there is a God or not. I think the last one is the classical definition.
Reply

Agnostic
02-03-2007, 02:13 AM
Gee! This post is about me!!!! :D
OK its not.
I call myself an agnostic because I don't subscribe to any one religion. I have a problem with believing that one is right and others are wrong sort of the "US and Them" syndrome that seems to cause a lot of problems in our world.
I have friends that are very religious and I feel that if it works for them great its just not for me. As for believing in God I guess I must believe to a certain point because a while ago a good Friend died of cancer and I found myself angry with God, how can you be angry with something that doesn't exist?
I guess my dilemma is that I'm Absolutely Positively not sure
Reply

dougmusr
02-03-2007, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Agnostic
Gee! This post is about me!!!! :D
OK its not.
I call myself an agnostic because I don't subscribe to any one religion. I have a problem with believing that one is right and others are wrong sort of the "US and Them" syndrome that seems to cause a lot of problems in our world.
I have friends that are very religious and I feel that if it works for them great its just not for me. As for believing in God I guess I must believe to a certain point because a while ago a good Friend died of cancer and I found myself angry with God, how can you be angry with something that doesn't exist?
I guess my dilemma is that I'm Absolutely Positively not sure
Would you say your anger at God over loss of a friend was something that was a general characteristic of humans independent of culture, or did you pick God because you were raised in a culture that acknowledges His existance.
Reply

Agnostic
02-03-2007, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dougmusr
Would you say your anger at God over loss of a friend was something that was a general characteristic of humans independent of culture, or did you pick God because you were raised in a culture that acknowledges His existance.
I would say you are right on both counts, also in a case like that there was no one else to blame.
I since have gotten over the anger part but I still miss my friend.
Whenever I feel life is unfair I just turn on the news and realize that my life is pretty good.
Reply

Malaikah
02-04-2007, 12:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Agnostic
Whenever I feel life is unfair I just turn on the news and realize that my life is pretty good.
That is good. We should always remember that.

I would also like to point out, and you may benefit from this (indeed we all can), is that it is a a very serious thing to be anger at good and accuse Him of things- we have not right to do that. God doesn't need us, we need Him, and we should always know that everything He does is done with wisdom and justice, and no blame Him and be angry at Him negates the acceptance that He is indeed Al-Mighty and full of Wisdom...

We don't have rights over God except for where He has given us those rights, we are the ones who are 100% dependent on God, not the other way around...

God isn't there to be blamed, rather we should turn to Him in our times of need for true support and comfort and be ever grateful to Him, especially in our times of ease...
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-04-2007, 05:08 PM
I agree that blaming "God" is counter productive. Short term it may be good, as it may keep you from attacking/blaming innocent people, but long term it only gets in the way of real closure.
Reply

Malaikah
02-05-2007, 01:01 AM
Pygoscelis,

What do you mean by 'real closure'?
Reply

Skillganon
02-05-2007, 01:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Agnostic
Gee! This post is about me!!!!
LOL, I notice that.
:D
OK its not.
Let's go with the previous statement because it humours me.

I call myself an agnostic because I don't subscribe to any one religion. I have a problem with believing that one is right and others are wrong sort of the "US and Them" syndrome that seems to cause a lot of problems in our world.
The problem is when one think it is my religion vs this religion. First one has to take the stance Allah(s.w.t) exist. From their one has to establish who is Allah (Monotheism) e.t.c and specifically what is not Allah.
We are all agreed that Allah is not his creation in anyway. That worship is solely due to him. You follow me?
This is the Fundemntal creed which one will should notice i.e. their is no god beside Allah.
Woshiping man as god, or idols as god, or stone as god tree as god e.t.c are all false and false woship, even if one argue's that this is soley to draw closer or nearer to Allah i.e. like a mediator.

Woship is only for Allah directly and one does not need a mediator to reach him.

I have friends that are very religious and I feel that if it works for them great its just not for me.
I am sorry for what happened to you freind, but to everyone the reutrn is to Allah(s.w.t). Their is nothing to be angry about. He giveth life and take's away. Everyone will go return to him.

As for believing in God I guess I must believe to a certain point because a while ago a good Friend died of cancer and I found myself angry with God, how can you be angry with something that doesn't exist?
I guess my dilemma is that I'm Absolutely Positively not sure
Maybe denying existance of God is not the way to go. It does not make change anything nor changes anything of his existance.

Tell me why do you or did you think/believe Allah(s.w.t) exist?
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-05-2007, 03:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Pygoscelis,

What do you mean by 'real closure'?
Being able to move on with ones life and not looking back.

Blaming "God" only opens up a new can of worms, and once you've gotten over those new issues, you've still got the original one (you still haven't actually dealt with it, only passed it off on "God").
Reply

Agnostic
02-06-2007, 02:06 AM
Let's go with the previous statement because it humours me.
Glad I can make you laugh

The problem is when one think it is my religion vs this religion. First one has to take the stance Allah(s.w.t) exist. From their one has to establish who is Allah (Monotheism) e.t.c and specifically what is not Allah.
We are all agreed that Allah is not his creation in anyway. That worship is solely due to him. You follow me?
This is the Fundemntal creed which one will should notice i.e. their is no god beside Allah.
Woshiping man as god, or idols as god, or stone as god tree as god e.t.c are all false and false woship, even if one argue's that this is soley to draw closer or nearer to Allah i.e. like a mediator.

Woship is only for Allah directly and one does not need a mediator to reach him.
If I were to say I was a Catholic,Jew or other religion I believe you would tell me that only Islam is the true religion.
Am I correct ?

I am sorry for what happened to you friend, but to everyone the reutrn is to Allah(s.w.t). Their is nothing to be angry about. He giveth life and take's away. Everyone will go return to him.
Perhaps my anger was misdirected. But in my sorrow I lashed out at nearest target I since have gotten over it.

Maybe denying existance of God is not the way to go. It does not make change anything nor changes anything of his existance.
In observing the world I have not seen any evidence that affirming the existence of God changes anything either

Tell me why do you or did you think/believe Allah(s.w.t) exist?
Sometime I want to believe that there is more than just existence then nothing but nothing I has seen or felt has given me the faith to truly believe God exists or that one way of worshop is the correct one

Blaming "God" only opens up a new can of worms, and once you've gotten over those new issues, you've still got the original one (you still haven't actually dealt with it, only passed it off on "God").
As I said Ive gotten over it
Reply

snakelegs
02-06-2007, 02:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Agnostic
Gee! This post is about me!!!! :D
[/B]
actually, it's about me!
and my agnosticism is better than yours. in fact, it is the only true agnosticism. :giggling:
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-06-2007, 06:28 AM
You Can't Know That!


...


...


:)
Reply

SilentObserver
02-14-2007, 07:43 AM
I think agnostics are closer to understanding God than most religious people.

It is said that the first step in learning and understanding something is to admit that you don't know anything.

As agnostics, we realize that God is far too complicated for our feeble human minds to comprehend with the insufficient information that we have. We know that we don't really understand what or who God is. Many religious people think they understand God, and what his nature is.

Knowing that one doesn't know anything, puts one further ahead than those that think they know something.
Reply

Malaikah
02-14-2007, 07:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
As agnostics, we realize that God is far too complicated for our feeble human minds to comprehend with the insufficient information that we have. We know that we don't really understand what or who God is. Many religious people think they understand God, and what his nature is.
That is not true of Muslims. It is a fundamental part of Islamic belief that we can never truly comprehend the nature of God.

That said- Muslims have a lot to go on because at least God describes himself a little bit in the Quran, whereas an agnostic has nothing at all to go by other than speculation.
Reply

SilentObserver
02-14-2007, 07:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
That is not true of Muslims. It is a fundamental part of Islamic belief that we can never truly comprehend the nature of God.

That said- Muslims have a lot to go on because at least God describes himself a little bit in the Quran, whereas an agnostic has nothing at all to go by other than speculation.
From the point of view of someone that does not believe that the quran is the truth, or was given by God, this is only backs up what was already said. This falls under "people that 'think' they know.

BTW, I have heard christians say also that It is a fundamental part of christian belief that we can never truly comprehend the nature of God.
Reply

syilla
02-14-2007, 07:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
From the point of view of someone that does not believe that the quran is the truth, or was given by God, this is only backs up what was already said. This falls under "people that 'think' they know.

BTW, I have heard christians say also that It is a fundamental part of christian belief that we can never truly comprehend the nature of God.
According to islam...knowing Allah subhanahuwata'ala...is not 'a point of view'. If something that we have to learn and study.
Reply

SilentObserver
02-14-2007, 08:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
According to islam...knowing Allah subhanahuwata'ala...is not 'a point of view'. If something that we have to learn and study.
Do you think you can get to know who God is from 'study'?
Reply

syilla
02-14-2007, 08:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Do you think you can get to know who God is from 'study'?
define 'know God'? i think both of our definitions are very different.

if you want to know briefly about Allah subhanahuwata'ala pls check out the thread Knowing Allah in the discover islam.

But if you really want to 'know' Allah subhanahuwata'ala... there is so much process of learning you have to do. In Islam we have alot of subjects to study which in arabic you call it 'ilm'.

check this link out
http://www.--------------/al-tawhid/islam-know-conc.htm

There are ilm tawhid, fiqh, hadith and so much more.
you can check this out too...
http://--------------/alpha.php?sid=63...a_id=182&t=258
Reply

Eric H
02-14-2007, 09:41 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Silent Observer

format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Do you think you can get to know who God is from 'study'?
I feel that you get to know God by doing something.

The things that you do help to prove to yourself and others that you have a faith in God. I believe that you can still have faith in God and be kind and compassionate to people of other faiths. God created all people and he is not the exclusive property of any one religion, even though we may give that impression at times.

Faith in God is a gradual journey always one day at a time, some days you may have grave doubts, and other times your actions will prove to yourself that your belief is certain.

In the spirit of searching for a kind and compassionate God,

Eric
Reply

tomtomsmom
02-14-2007, 03:31 PM
So many people claim to know God. There are many discriptions of what he may look like. But........what if God is really a woman???
Reply

wilberhum
02-14-2007, 06:43 PM
Gender is for procreation, I don’t think god does that. :uuh:

The reason the male gender is used is because, men created the image of god. :mad:
Reply

syilla
02-15-2007, 12:42 AM
^^^lol.... hehe in islam, Allah has no gender.

Please read this...
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ceptofgod.html

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess.

and this... http://www.--------------/concept/
Commonly Asked Questions About "Allah"

Let us now try to answer a number of basic questions about the Almighty:

1. How can you describe Him?

Numerous verses of the Holy Qura'n point out to His existence. Consider the argument of His Friend Ibrahim (Abraham, as) who said: "My Lord is the One Who brings life and Who causes death" (Qura'n, 2:258), and the argument of Moses who said, "[He is] your Lord and the Lord of your fathers of old" (Qura'n, 26:26). Also consider these verses:
Our Lord is the One Who gave everything its creation, then He guided it (to its destination). (20:50)The Lord of the East and the West: there is no god but He; therefore, take Him for a protector. (73:9)

2. Can you define Him?

The Exalted One says that He defies definition: "... nothing at all is like Him" (Qura'n, 42:11).

3. Can one ask: "What is He?"

Pharaoh asked Moses, "And what is the Lord of the worlds?" (Qura'n, 26:23). Moses answered by saying that He is "Your Lord and the Lord of your fathers of old" (Qura'n, 26:26). There is no way to know Him by defining "what" He is; rather, one can get to know the proofs of His Existence, Might, Knowledge, Wisdom, Mercy and His being the Creator of everything. "Do not think about Allah," said Imam `Ali, "rather, think about what Allah has created, for thinking about Allah only increases one's bewilderment."

4. Is He one or more?

The Glorified One has required the Muslims to

Say: He, Allah, is One. (112:1)

And your God is One God! (2:163)

Had there been in them any gods besides Allah, they would both have certainly been in a state of disorder. (21:22)

5. Is He confined to any place?

The Holy Qura'n tells us that: He is the Supreme (watching) over His worshippers. (6:61) They revere their Lord High above them. (16:50) The Beneficent God is firmly established on the throne (of authority). (20:5)

"Above them" in 16:50 refers to the Almighty being above His servants in His Might, Power, Loftiness, not to being above them in place, space, area, elevation, or physical location; these do not apply to Him. The Messenger of Allah called upon His Lord during his ascension to heavens pleading to Him thus, "You are as You have praised Your own Self," and Prophet Younus (Jonah) son of Matti, while being in the bottom of the sea, called upon his Lord saying, "There is no god but You! Glory to You! Surely I have become one of those who commit injustice against their own souls!" (Qura'n, 21:87). The Messenger of Allah has said, "Do not exalt me over him [over Younus] in nearness to Allah just because I reached the High Throne while he was in the bottom of the sea, for the Adored One is above being confined to a space or a direction." He has also addressed Him saying, "You and he in the strata of the heavens;" the believers call upon Him saying, "You and them on earth." Had He been in a particular area or place, all these persons could not have differed from one another in His regard at any given time. He is above being confined to place or direction: "All those in the heavens and the earth glorify Allah" (Qura'n, 57:1).

6. When did He begin to exist?

The Praised One has said, He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent, and He has full knowledge of all things. (57:3) Everything is to perish except He. (28:88)

Anyone who asks when His existence came to be implies that there was a time when He did not exist, i.e. that void preceded Him. He is not "preceded" by anyone, nor is He "succeeded" by anyone. His continuation is above being tied to time. His existence is too holy to be dependent on time; such are characteristics of things or persons who come to be then perish, or of those whose being is possible in the future, but they do not apply to Him. Another verse which similarly describes His eternity and perpetuity is this one: "Everyone on earth will perish but will abide (forever) the Face of your Lord, full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour" (Qura'n, 55:26-27), and also this: "Blessed is He in Whose hands is the dominion" (Qura'n, 67:1). "Blessed," that is, tabaraka, is derived from baraka, blessing, which connotes constancy and lack of acceptance to change. His existence is everlasting, eternal, perpetual.

7. Over what does He rule?

The Almighty says, "Say: O Allah! Master of authority! You give authority to whomsoever You please and take it away from whomsoever You please" (Qura'n, 3:26). He, and only He, is the King of kings; He grants others authority: "Blessed is the One in Whose hand is the kingdom" (Qura'n, 67:1). Vanities and possessions owned by others will all disappear on the Day of Judgment: "Whose will be the dominion that Day? It is Allah's, the One, the Subduer (of all)" (Qura'n, 40:16).

8. What is [the extent of] His knowledge?

He has said, [He is] the One Who knows the unseen and the seen. (6:73) And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures: none knows them except He. (6:59) Slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep. (2:255) And your Lord is not forgetful. (19:64) And you are not (engaged) in any affair, nor do you recite concerning it any portion of the Qura'n, nor do you do anything, except that We are witnesses over you when you enter into it. (10:61)

9. What is His speech?

The Most Glorified and Exalted has said, Were every tree on earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to add thereto, the words of Allah would not have been exhausted; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. (31:27) Say: Were the sea (turned into) ink for the (recording of the) words of my Lord, the sea would surely be consumed before the words of my Lord are exhausted though We were to bring the like of that (sea) to add thereto. (18:109)

10. How is He?

The Exalted One says, Allah's is the command before (now) and thereafter. (30:4) The day on which no soul shall control anything for (another) soul, and the command on that Day shall be entirely Allah's. (82:19)

11. Why is He the Praised One?

The Almighty has said that He is "... the Apparent and the Hidden" (Qura'n, 57:3), that is, His Existence, Might and Wisdom are all evident if one observes the indications thereto, yet His reality is obscured from all intellects.

12. What is His will?

The answer to this verse is provided by verses such as these: And you do not please except if Allah [so] pleases. (76:30) Allah chooses whomsoever He pleases especially for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace. (2:105) Allah grants His authority to whomsoever He pleases, and Allah cares for all, and He knows all things. (2:247) Allah sets on the right path whomsoever He pleases. (2:272) He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. (3:6) If He pleases, He may take you off and make whomsoever He pleases successors after you. (6:133)

13. Why is He the all-Knowing, the Omnipotent?

He has responded to those who raised such a question by saying, He cannot be questioned concerning what He does while they shall be questioned. (21:23) All things are destined in the end to the One Who has facilitated their being what they are, the One Who cannot be explained; therefore, the attempt to analyze Him, His Attributes, and His actions, is simply impossible.

14. Does He have sons, daughters, parents, or any family members or relatives?!

The God of Islam and of all mankind has said, "Say: He, Allah, is One. Allah is He on Whom everyone [and everything] depends. He does not beget, nor is He begotten, and none is like Him" (Qura'n, 112:1-4).

15. Does He forgive?

He has said, "Inform My servants that I am the Forgiving, the Merciful" (Qura'n, 15:49).

16. What about His creation?

He has said, O man! What has beguiled you from your Lord, the Gracious One Who created you then made you complete, then He made you symmetrical? Into whatever form He pleased did He shape you. (82:6-8) Have they not considered that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth and was not tired by their creation...? (46:33) This is Allah's creation, so show Me what those besides Him have created. (31:11)

17. Can He be seen?

He, the Most Exalted, the Most High, has told that When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, he said: "Lord! Show (Yourself) to me so that I may look upon You." Allah said: "By no means can you see Me; but look at the mountain; if it abides in its place, then shall you see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain, He made it like dust, and Moses fell in a swoon. When he recovered his senses, he said: "Glory to You! To You do I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (Qura'n, 7:143).

Sunnis, however, believe, as the reader will find out in a later part of this book, that the believers will be able on the Day of Judgment to see Allah. Shi`as disagree with them as you will read later in this book, Insha-Allah.

18. How does He command?

He has said, His command, when He intends anything, is only to say to it: Be, and it is. (36:82) When He decrees an affair, He only says to it: Be, and it is. (40:68) His creatures have always wondered about His Attributes, Praise and Glory to Him, so He provided them with the following verses wherein they can find the clear answer: And Allah's are the most Beautiful Names (Attributes), so call upon Him thereby. (7:180) Allah: there is no god but He; His are the very Best Names. (20:8) Say: Call upon Allah or upon al-Raman; whichever you call upon, He has the Great Names...(17:110).

He is Allah, besides Whom there is no other god; the King, the Holy, the One Who grants peace, the One Who gives security, the Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of greatness; Glory to Allah from what they set up (with Him). He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most beautiful Attributes; whatever in the heavens and the earth declares His glory, and He is the Mighty, the Wise. (59:21-24)

[1] Ibn `Abbas was one of Prophet Muhammed's cousins: he was Abdullah ibn `Abbas ibn Abd al-Muattalib, of Banu Hashim, of Quraysh. Referred to as the Islamic nation's scribe, he was a highly respected sahabi whose hadith are classified by al-Bukhari and Muslim as "sahih" accurate, authentic. He was born in Mecca, and he kept the Messenger of Allah company and narrated his traditions. He fought on the side of Imam `Ali during the Battle of the Camel (which started on Friday, Jumada I 16, 36 A.H./November 10, 656 A.H.) against `Ayesha and her supporters, and also during the Battle of Siffin (which started in Thul-Hijjah 36 A.H./May 657 A.D.). During his later years, he became blind, so he retired to 'if where he died in 68 A.H./687 A.D. In both al-Bukhari's and Muslim's Sahih books, there are 1160 hadith transmitted through Ibn `Abbas alone.
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-16-2007, 08:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
So many people claim to know God. There are many discriptions of what he may look like. But........what if God is really a woman???
Well by definition God can not be a he or a she. Has to be an it. If there is only one God and has only ever been one God, then God does does not have a gender.

Only reason the bible talks about God as "He" instead of "It' is because its easier for us to relate to "him" that way. Recently some may also take illogical offence to their deity being called "It".
Reply

Abdul Fattah
02-17-2007, 04:41 AM
Only reason the bible talks about God as "He" instead of "It' is because its easier for us to relate to "him" that way. Recently some may also take illogical offence to their deity being called "It".
I think this is actually a gramatical thing, if an entity's gender is unknown, in most languages they refer to it as he. It on the other hand is asexual, so in a way also gender related. Since it is also used to refer to inanimate objects, some peopel might take that the wrong way. In the Qur'an this problem is solved beautifully, there Allah subhana wa ta'ala refers to himself as "we"
Reply

tomtomsmom
02-17-2007, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by steve
I think this is actually a gramatical thing, if an entity's gender is unknown, in most languages they refer to it as he. It on the other hand is asexual, so in a way also gender related. Since it is also used to refer to inanimate objects, some peopel might take that the wrong way. In the Qur'an this problem is solved beautifully, there Allah subhana wa ta'ala refers to himself as "we"
I don't get it. WE would make it plural but Islam states that Allah stands alone. It makes no sense to me sorry.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
02-17-2007, 06:02 PM
Allah subhana wa ta'ala is nothing like we can imagen, to imagen something about Allah subhana wa ta'ala does not do Allah subhana wa ta'ala justice. We don't know the exact reason why Allah subhana wa ta'ala chose to refer to himself as "we" as we aren't told. However it does seem obvious to me that such a thing helps us by reminding us of Allah subhana wa ta'ala's un-concievable nature.
Reply

Malaikah
02-19-2007, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
I don't get it. WE would make it plural but Islam states that Allah stands alone. It makes no sense to me sorry.
Hi,

I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of the 'royal we'? Like if you have ever read Shakespeare, you will notice that he king refers to himself as we, it is a sign of respect/high status.

So, sometimes the We is royal, other time it is actually plural, such as when other were involved in the act, so that it is referring to God and the angels etc.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-10-2012, 11:17 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-11-2012, 07:13 PM
  3. Replies: 135
    Last Post: 09-10-2007, 12:48 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-04-2007, 05:37 PM
  5. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-06-2006, 09:49 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!