HELP!judgement of disabled? And others

[One Man Army]

Im new to this forum.

im very confused on many issues. i was wondering if my brothers and sisters could help me out.

i was recently asked by a buddist about why people are born disabled, or why do babies die strait after being born!! i couldnt find an answer in islam for this. as how can these people be judged. what if they where born into a christian family! and why are so many muslims people disabled?? this doesnt make sense to me.

he replied with in his religion they say its down to past deeds, of reincarnation. karma.

please help! i looked rather dumb struck when he askd me! :?

[united]

it happens because it is Allahs will.
these people see disabled people in a negative light (and many people abuse these people) but in Islam disabled people are very dear to Allah and paradise is gauranteed for them

[The Ruler]

:sl:

it is a test for us brother...being disabled, being born in a non-muslim family, babies dying straight after death...they are tests for us...alot of people lose their faith hating what has just happened to them...they lose their imaan...but if we stay steadfast in our imaan and stay strong at times of distress, Allh would reward us abundantly insha'allah :)

there's a hadith on the reward of parents being paradise if they are patient even when their baby dies...i'll post it up insha'allah

:w:

[One Man Army]

but why are these people more dear then any other? what could they do to get in this position? i thought all are born sinless. why is it that someone born normal some one disabled?

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[united]

we are all innocent when born. however we all grow up and mature. these peope do grow but do not mature which means that they are in effect still children. and all children go to heaven

[The Ruler]

but why are these people more dear then any other? what could they do to get in this position? i thought all are born sinless. why is it that someone born normal some one disabled?

:sl:

we are not talking about sins here...why are some born normal and others disabled?...well if a person is normal, they face a lot of challenges and tests and they have to go through them with patience...and the same thing applies to the disabled person...it is a test for him/her...it could have been that if the disabled person was normal, they may not have bee able to go through the tests that a normal person faces...Allah gives what is best for that person and Allah knows best :)

i am still searching for the hadith but cant find it yet

:w:

[The Ruler]

:sl:

i found the hadith:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Some women requested the Prophet to fix a day for them as the men were taking all his time. On that he promised them one day for religious lessons and commandments. Once during such a lesson the Prophet said, "A woman whose three children die will be shielded by them from the Hell fire." On that a woman asked, "If only two die?" He replied, "Even two (will shield her from the Hell-fire)."

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

as above (the sub narrators are different). Abu Huraira qualified the three children referred to in the above mentioned Hadith as not having reached the age of committing sins (i.e. age of puberty) .

the reward is great isnt it :)
:w:

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Please see the following thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-children.html

[One Man Army]

i find these answers unfitting. it doesnt make sence. why would another soul be dearer to allah over mine? what would make allah love another more? why would they be born and die sooner when we are on the same test? is there some sort of life before death then? the buddhist theory of reincarnation fits this so perfectly! why cant islam give me this answer! i dont understand how God will specifically chose certain souls as he loves them more? what will make him love them more?

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Who said that Allaah loves them more? It is not the length of our life that determines our virtue in the Sight of Allaah, it is what we do in that time. And children who die before the age of puberty are admitted into Paradise without a reckoning. Take a look at these ahadith:

"Whoever buries three children, Allah will forbid the Fire for him." (Saheeh, Tabarani in al-Kabeer, Al-Albani authenticated it in Saheeh Al-Jaami' (6238).)

"There are no two Muslim parents whose three children die before reaching puberty except that Allah will enter them into Paradise due to His mercy to the children. It will be said to them, "Enter the Paradise", so they will say, "Not until our parents enter first". It will be said, "Enter the Paradise you and your parents." (Ahmad, an-Nasaa'i, and Al-Albani authenticated it in Saheeh al-Jaami' (5780).)

"'Whoever iHtasaba (remains content and patient after the death of) three of his offspring will enter Jannah.' A woman said, 'What about two?' He said, 'And two.'" (Saheeh, an-Nasaa'i, Ibn Hibban, authenticated by al-Albani in Saheeh al-Jaami (5969).)

"To no woman three children die and she remains patient and content, except that she will enter Jannah. Or two (children)." (Muslim)

So we see that not only are the children admitted into Paradise, but so are the parents in cases where three children have died. Note that some of the hadith mention the parents being content and patient, and this is another issue that has been mentioned many times: deaths are a trial for the family and a means by which Allaah tests His servants.

And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.). [2:155]

And Allaah Knows best.

[- Qatada -]

i find these answers unfitting. it doesnt make sence. why would another soul be dearer to allah over mine? what would make allah love another more? why would they be born and die sooner when we are on the same test? is there some sort of life before death then? the buddhist theory of reincarnation fits this so perfectly! why cant islam give me this answer! i dont understand how God will specifically chose certain souls as he loves them more? what will make him love them more?

Allaah Almighty tests different people in different ways. You may be disabled physically, but Allaah may give you alot of wisdom. Or you may have lots of wealth, yet not have the looks. Or you may have the looks, but not have the knowledge.


These tests are in different ways, and Allaah Almighty puts us in different situations, but it still is a test. If a person has wealth, Allaah will ask them on how they spent that wealth, whereas someone who never had wealth may be asked how he used his strength, health etc. Whenever Allaah Almighty tests someone, He doesn't burden them with more than they can bear, which is part of the Mercy of Allaah Almighty.



The point you make about buddhist re-incarnation isn't really perfect. Imagine a person was bad all their life, and in their 'next life' they turn into a rat. What does the rat do to become good? Will he say "today i won't steal no cheese." Or will he have the same nature as other rats.



We will be judged by Allaah on everything that we do, the less sins we fall into will be better for our account. Some people may have commited many sins which may have lead them to the hellfire in the hereafter, so Allaah chose to make them disabled. Some may have abused their wealth if they had too much, so Allaah Almighty made them poor. Allaah Almighty is the Most Wise, the All-Knowing.

You cannot say that you know what will happen without a doubt, because it is Allaah who know's the future, so He will give us a means to stay firm on the right path if we are sincere. In the end, we will all return to Allaah Almighty, and He will judge us on all that we did.



Allaah Almighty knows best.



:salamext:

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum,

I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of Questions dear brother,

but why are these people more dear then any other?

I don't know what gave you the idea that people are born disabled because Allah loves them more! If this was the case Prophets and Messenger who are beloved to Allah would have been disabled.

what could they do to get in this position?

They didn't do anything to be born disabled!!

i thought all are born sinless.

We are all born sinless, noone is born with sin, disability is not becase someone is loved more or loved less!!

why is it that someone born normal some one disabled?

It is a test of Allah, some are tested in different ways.

i find these answers unfitting. it doesnt make sence. why would another soul be dearer to allah over mine?

Again noone is born disabled because Allah loves them more!

why would they be born and die sooner when we are on the same test?

Everyone is not given the same test paper! People in different circumstances are tested in different ways!

[QUOTE=ultimate truth;561966]is there some sort of life before death then?

Nope there isn't, people are born, and they are tested, some with disability and some with other things.

the buddhist theory of reincarnation fits this so perfectly! why cant islam give me this answer!

I ask you, when did life start? What were we all born as in the first instance, please answer since the theory of re incarnation is perfect.

Also, what good deed does a frog or a mouse or a chair do?

i dont understand how God will specifically chose certain souls as he loves them more? what will make him love them more?

Again God does not say, 'This person will be disabled because I love him more or less', rather, some people are tested in one way and others in another, and depending how you do on the test, then God will love you!!

[One Man Army]

i have read on certain posts that the disabled are dearer to allah. hence thats y i sed love. anyway. what i still dont understand is why do people get different test papers?how is this determined? why should say for example some one be born a jew, and me a muslim?? you cant just say its a test for allah. how would allah decide this? reincarnation goes to the theory of evolution or something.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


ultimate_truth, realise that if any person is sincere - Allaah Almighty will guide them insha'Allaah. I know of many muslims who were born muslim, but they turned away from the religion. Why was this? Probably because they weren't sincere, they didn't like the limitations which Allaah had forbidden them from. Why does Allaah set these limitations? For our own good.

Intoxicants are forbidden because they cloud up the mind and influence people to do haraam. Murder of an innocent soul is forbidden because thats injustice, fornication/adultery is forbidden because it causes confusin within lineages and the child may even feel sad that they don't know who their father is which can cause them psychological harm.



If a jew, christian, hindu, pagan, agnostic etc. is sincere, Allaah Almighty will guide him/her. Allaah will create us in different situations, but these situations will be part of our journey towards Allaah. Some people get distracted in the way, they fall into evil because they are the ones who take that first step into the path of wrong. Allaah has placed it in our fitrah (natural disposition) to do good, so we naturally know what is right or wrong because Allaah has already programmed us that way.

There have been many situations when people from other faiths have become muslim because they realised their character is according to the character which Allaah has programmed us with [in the fitrah.] Others become muslim because they believe in one God, but they find all the faiths confusing. Christians worship Jesus (peace be upon him) and its naturally hard to believe that a human could be God. Other faiths worship idols, or a philosophy, but islaam is the only faith that is purely monotheistic and we worship the Creator - Allaah Almighty, the Lord of the worlds alone, without no partners.




Allaah Almighty know's best.


Peace.

[One Man Army]

thank you brother. that is one of the best answers iv heard from a muslim brother. i find it difficult to believe that all kafirs will go 2 hell, as if a muslim is sinning, how will they go to paradise?

here is some text i found on hindus and muslims:

Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.

Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.

As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.

(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and muhammad.

Yet the whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.

[One Man Army]

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post562028

[Umar001]

assalamu aleykum,

Sorry I have just read that you are new and I forgot to say, welcome, please forgive my mannners :)

i have read on certain posts that the disabled are dearer to allah. hence thats y i sed love. anyway. what i still dont understand is why do people get different test papers?how is this determined? why should say for example some one be born a jew, and me a muslim?? you cant just say its a test for allah. how would allah decide this? reincarnation goes to the theory of evolution or something.

I understand what you mean, I read what the brother said and I understood taht you understood it that way.

You see, first we should establish, between us, that a undisputed quality of God, or Allah as we call Him, is that he is The Just, so it is not for us to ask 'if ' but 'how'

Meaning, we should not ask, 'If Allah is Just then....' rather our mindstate should be 'Allah is Just, but I dont understand the situation, how does His justice come into place here..'

I say this because you are Muslim so I take it that you already believe Allah is Just.

To move on, how is it that some people are tested with the death of a baby, and some are tested with being disabled and so forth, what is the wisdom behind it?

For the wisdom behind things, we need to understand that we only see a small amount of what is going on, while Allah knows the past, the future and the present, we only know the present, so sometimes our judgement can only be limited, we see this in a story told to us by Allah,

Moses when seeing that a young boy had been killed by his companion said:

(Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing.

Sounds similar to what some people accuse God of doing, 'how can God kill my child'

But here is the wisdom, explained by the companion of Moses,

And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them:
So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place one better than him in purity and nearer to having compassion.

We see that at the time Moses did not know the reason for the death of the young boy, but it was only because the young boy would later on in his day become a bad person and cause trouble to his parents, nt only that, but his parents could have become disbelievers because they loved the boy so much, so this was done. And the boy inshaAllah is going to be in heaven since he was killed young or so it seems.

Why are some given different test papers? Are 5 year olds tested with the same questions as 11 year olds? Are 11 year olds tested with the same questions as 18 year olds? Even though they may all be doing a test on the same subject?

Would it not be unfair if you sat a 5 year old child who had never been to a maths class to do a math test of a 18 year old?

Again you must remember noone will be sent to the fire unless they have been warned in one way or another, so whether they are Muslim or Jew or Christian is of no concern, if the Muslim does not take heed of the warning then he will be punished if the Jew does not take heed of the warning he will be punished if the Christian does not take heed of the warning he will be punished.

[- Qatada -]

thank you brother. that is one of the best answers iv heard from a muslim brother. i find it difficult to believe that all kafirs will go 2 hell, as if a muslim is sinning, how will they go to paradise?

here is some text i found on hindus and muslims:

Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.

Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.

As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.

(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and muhammad.

Yet the whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.

:salamext:



I'm really happy you're interested to find out sincerely alhamdulillah (praise be to Allaah.) :)



First of all, Allaah Almighty has created us so we worship Him Alone.

The Noble Qur'an - Az-Zaariyaat 51:56
And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).

We worship Allaah alone because this is the purpose of our creation. Worship doesn't just mean continously fasting, praying etc. But having good manners, helping the needy, fasting, praying, spreading the purpose of life (of worshipping the Creator) etc. are all forms of worship. Even stuff like working to gain money to support your family, or to place a morsel of food in your wife's mouth is a form of worship as long as the person has the right intention.


This comes upto the matter of intentions, every person who does an act in this world has an intention right? Some people's intention is to become popular, others to become rich, while others may do it to please another human (maybe Jesus (peace be upon him) for example.) While muslims do it to please the Creator - Allaah Almighty, because He has told us that we worship Him alone, and that is our purpose of creation.



Whoever does an act with a certain intention, Allaah Almighty out of His Mercy may allow that person to have what they strived for. So a person who wants to take the path of evil, the person may work hard to strive to do that (i.e. the Mafia, gangleader etc.) the person is sincere to go down the path of evil, maybe to gain 'respect' - while another person may be sincere in wanting to do good to please the Creator, Allaah Almighty - so Allaah will make it easy for him to go down the path of good.

The muslim had the intention to please Allaah, while the non muslim did it for this world only. Because the disbeliever rejected the hereafter, or only preferred this life over the hereafter - they will only get this world. If a person strives for this world and the hereafter - they may be rewarded in both worlds.



But this depends on who you did the action for. The non muslim may have done the act for Jesus (peace be upon him) even though Allaah has created us so we worship Him alone. Allaah forgives us all sins except someone associating partners with Him.

If a person did it for Jesus, the person would expect a reward from Jesus (peace be upon him) right? So Allaah Almighty on the day of judgement will ask the people to ask the one they did the actions for to be rewarded from them, because they never did it for Allaah alone did they? They did it for someone else, so they should get the reward off that other deity too right?



No-one besides Allaah will reward the creation that day, so Jesus (peace be upon him) won't be benefitting the person, infact Jesus (peace be upon him) will be against that person because they did it for someone else besides Allaah, and Jesus (peace be upon him) was the one who called to the worship of Allaah alone. So Allaah Almighty will reward the one's who did it purely for His sake, and the one's who did it for someone elses sake - their deeds will be in vain because they can't get reward off that thing now.


However, Allaah Almighty may give that person what they wanted in this world, so if a non muslim strived for popularity, they may have a share of it in this world, but not in the hereafter. Whereas Allaah will give goodness to the believer in this life and the hereafter because Allaah Almighty is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him, the Lord of the Worlds.




Allaah Almighty knows best.



You got any questions, please don't be afraid to ask insha'Allaah. :)



Peace.

[One Man Army]

i think my post refers to exactly what you are talking about:

As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.

(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and muhammad.

i think it is important to follow what ever religion you belong to. but follow whole heartedly. and like you sed my brother. follow the source!! (allah)!

[One Man Army]

i would also like to apologise for my profile stating that i am a muslim!! this is a mistake. i currently dont belong to any religion, however am conducting alot of research to see what path i want to follow!!

please forgive me for giving wrong impression!!

[Umar001]

What I don't get is if you wanna follow a path, wouldn't you want to follow a correct path?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Qur'an 3:85)

Allaah Almighty sends messengers to mankind, and the final messenger of Allaah was Muhammad (peace be upon him.) There will be no more messengers after him because Allaah has perfected this religion, and the message of Muhammad (peace be upon him) [the Qur'an and Authentic Sunnah] can be applied at anytime - from 1400 years ago, till the day of judgement.


If anyone rejects Muhammad (peace be upon him's) message on purpose, they are rejecting the revelation of Allaah Almighty. Anyone who is living in the world today who hear's the message is responsible to accept it because Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a messenger to all of mankind.

The issue of rejecting Allaah Almighty's messengers isn't a light matter, so it is everyones duty to follow this.



However, we know that most of mankind won't accept, maybe due to their arrogance or because they may prefer this life over the hereafter. But that isn't an excuse. Anyone who rejects the messengers of Allaah is a disbeliever, and what did these messengers call to? To the worship of Allaah alone, so why is man so arrogant to reject the truth? Islaam means submission to the Creator, and anyone who doesn't submit to Him, Allaah will decide between us all because in the end, we will all be brought back to Him. If Allaah can create us once, it's easy for Him to create us a second time.


If you're confused about the people who don't hear about islaam within their lifetime, i think some scholars say that these people will be tested on the day of judgement.



Allaah Almighty knows best.

[snakelegs]

Im new to this forum.
he replied with in his religion they say its down to past deeds, of reincarnation. karma.

this is my problem with the concept of karma. it can easily be used to blame the victim.
as an agnostic, i accept the idea that much is unknowable.

[One Man Army]

so what are your views on life as an agnostic? do you believe in God? principles of your religion? thank you

I disagree with the post before as i think anyone that does good deeds. and remembers allah will be accepted in the court of the lord. i think allah will judge us on how much we remembered his name, meditated, and did good deeds, rather then decide your fate through what religion you belong to.

[snakelegs]

yes, i believe in god. agnosticism is not a religion and about the only thing agnostics have in common is that there is much that is simply unknowable.

[- Qatada -]

Hi ultimatetruth.


Allaah sends us messengers so we can realise the difference between right and wrong. If we don't accept the messenger, then we're rejecting His message. How can we know if something is right if we don't even know what is right or wrong?

The fitrah (natural disposition) is altered depending on your surroundings (i.e. society) so we need a form of guidance to keep our fitrah intact. Both work together to keep a person on the straight path.


If one culture says that one thing is good, and another totally hates that thing. How are we to decide what is right? This is why Allaah Almighty sends us messengers, so we can find out what is wrong and what is right - then act accordingly.


Also realise that if we be kind to the creation, and we worship Allaah in different ways. How can we truely know how to worship Him Alone? We have to worship Him according to how He wants to be worshipped, and He shows us this through His messengers (peace be upon them.)


If you're confused about why Allaah sends us messengers who are just human, instead of angels etc. This is part of the trial, because if we saw an angel, we would already be given the answers. We understand humans and we accept them as one of us, so we are more likely to agree with them. If you're not sure about the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him) - why not study it to see how billions of people have come to islaam, yet his prophethood lasted for 23years only. No other man in history has ever achieved this.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.

[One Man Army]

iv been looking into the path of Guru Nanak alot. and that path is one of the greatest iv ever seen. its such a beautiful way of life. principles are just of humanity. it teaches how to get to God no matter what religion you belong to. all my questions are getting answered in the best ways i could imagin. fantastic religion. i do not reject muhammad being a prophet. but i find this path more befiting. i mean iv read texts and heard kirtan (singing of gurbani) and the feeling i get inside is overwhelming. so much truth is said in the bani! in the words. i still would like to learn about other religions.

[Umar001]

iv been looking into the path of Guru Nanak alot. and that path is one of the greatest iv ever seen. its such a beautiful way of life. principles are just of humanity. it teaches how to get to God no matter what religion you belong to. all my questions are getting answered in the best ways i could imagin. fantastic religion. i do not reject muhammad being a prophet. but i find this path more befiting. i mean iv read texts and heard kirtan (singing of gurbani) and the feeling i get inside is overwhelming. so much truth is said in the bani! in the words. i still would like to learn about other religions.

Can I ask you, Guru Nanak, how long ago did he live? And what are the sources that are used to show his life?

[- Qatada -]

Try listening to some Qur'an


http://quran.jalisi.com

www.sabbir.com

Media Tags are no longer supported

http://www.sabbir.com/Media/Quran/As...0Ash-Sharh.mp3




While reading translation from here:

www.quranicrealm.com



Tell me if you like it insha'Allaah. :)



Peace.

[One Man Army]

Guru Nanak came to the earth in 1469... he continues to live in the form of the shabad. my source is the Guru Granth Sahib ji. iv always been interested in this religion. and i have spent alot of my life researching.

[One Man Army]

you see this poetry i have posted. at start of this page, its all from the Guru Granth Sahib!

[Umar001]

May I ask how do you know that the scripture has been preserved?

[snakelegs]

iv been looking into the path of Guru Nanak alot. and that path is one of the greatest iv ever seen. its such a beautiful way of life. principles are just of humanity. it teaches how to get to God no matter what religion you belong to. all my questions are getting answered in the best ways i could imagin. fantastic religion. i do not reject muhammad being a prophet. but i find this path more befiting. i mean iv read texts and heard kirtan (singing of gurbani) and the feeling i get inside is overwhelming. so much truth is said in the bani! in the words. i still would like to learn about other religions.

i agree about gurbani being very powerful. i mostly listen to qawwali but gurbani is also very spiritual. sikhnet has a huge treasure of gurbani/kirtan.
but sikhs also believe in karma, don't they?

[One Man Army]

what do you mean? the 10 Gurus along with many muslim and hindu saints have contributed to it with acceptance from the 5th Guru. you just have to read the text yourself to see truth!

[One Man Army]

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/Events/...%20Academy.mp3

check this one out! beautiful

[One Man Army]

The Guru Granth Sahib ji is such a universal text. stating the equality off all humanity. it promotes equality to the max. women are given equal status to males. the poor and rich are not diffrenciated apart. and the princliples such as earn honest living, share earnings, and remember God are the 3 main principles. just great

[One Man Army]

sikhs do believe in karma as the effect of every action has a reaction.

[Umar001]

I guess this should be moved to the comperative religion side,

But i'll leave this discussion for yall

Im outa here.

[snakelegs]

sikhs do believe in karma as the effect of every action has a reaction.

i find the concept of karma problematical, as i mentioned earlier.
couldn't hear your previous link because i have dial-up and it was going to take over an hour!

[snakelegs]

I guess this should be moved to the comperative religion side,

But i'll leave this discussion for yall

Im outa here.

you're right, but we (i) have gone off topic which i think was how islam views the diabled.
sorry!

[One Man Army]

what is it about karma u dont agree with?

[snakelegs]

what is it about karma u dont agree with?

i don't know if it is inherent, but i believe the concept of karma has been used in ways that are have a negative social impact.
if a person is disabled, it is attributed as a punishment for some sin he committed in a previous life - i think this is negative way of regarding the disabled. it gets easily turned in to "he deserves it".
as i mentioned earlier, it is sometimes used to blame the victim. a good example would be the survivors of hiroshima and nagasaki, who bore scars from the nuclear bomb. they were often shunned by society.

[One Man Army]

u c the fing with sikhism is the test of not judging no 1!! even tho people may be born to pay off debts of previous lifes, it doesnt mean that us as humans can judge them. this is all part n parcel of the test. Guru Nanak ji said:

ham nehee cha(n)gae buraa nehee koe ||
I am not good; no one is bad.

this in context explains if you dont see your self as good, how can any one be bad?? this is the test as a sikh, to see your self as the servent of humanity, the lowest of all.

[- Qatada -]

Hi ultimatetruth.


If you're trying to promote your faith, realise that its against the forum rules. :) No offence intended.

While interfaith discussions are allowed promoting another religion is not allowed on the discussion board. This discussion board was created to promote Islam, not another religion. There are many other discussion boards on the Web which you can promote your religion other than Islam. 5% warning

http://www.islamicboard.com/faq/foru...warning_levels

Peace.

[AvarAllahNoor]

i find the concept of karma problematical, as i mentioned earlier.
couldn't hear your previous link because i have dial-up and it was going to take over an hour!

It's a taboo subject to tackle i guess. In Sikhism one isn't supposed to think negatively of anyone. Be they good or bad! - Disabled people are the perfect examples of reincarnation (not meant as an insult) Only the Lord God knows what we have done no human can. - That does not mean we can ridicule the disabled, as this is against Gods wishes. The Guru's embraced people who were insane and were dieseased (sp) Jesus did so too, and Mohammed. Let us not get the pitchforks out over such a subject. If anyone can offer a better explanation please do so. :)

This shows us humans that all humankind are within the will of the Lord. He does as he wishes. And is accountable to none!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

[Umar001]

Jee, this is amazing,

It is claimed, Islam does not make sense because someone is born disabled, what did he do to deserve that? and that is answered, its a test, and he will be rewarded for his disabiltiy.

Furthermore, I am just wondering, in the concept of karma does it mean have been here from infinity??

What were we born first as?

And why were we born in the way that we was the first time round?

Is there even a beggining?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Jee, this is amazing,

It is claimed, Islam does not make sense because someone is born disabled, what did he do to deserve that? and that is answered, its a test, and he will be rewarded for his disabiltiy.

Furthermore, I am just wondering, in the concept of karma does it mean have been here from infinity??

What were we born first as?

And why were we born in the way that we was the first time round?

Is there even a beggining?

We believe the Lord to be the most powerful, so he does not need to explain all that we question. I couldn't tell you what my past life was and as what. This is beyond our knowing. - No this is not our 'get out clause.' I'm sure you as a muslim believe God has the right to reveal what he chooses only!

If not, then you explain why people are disbaled?

[- Qatada -]

We've already explained that Allaah tests people in different ways. Some are tested through health, while others are through wealth, others through other means. Everything we experience in the world (whether its good or bad) is a form of test to see if we will stay firm on our covenant with Allaah Almighty.


In the end, we will be brought back to Him, the Lord of the Worlds - to judge between us on all that we did. And Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

there is some wisdome in those words. People dont fully recognize God, they forget him a LOT, yet his always there. Its a sad state indeed which we're all guilty of.

Audhubillah, may Allah give us guidance !!!

[One Man Army]

Gurfateh!

sikhs believe that the soul is immortal. there is evidence in the Guru Granth Sahib ji to support theory of evolution. It is described as God play. when ever he decides for the human to take form, and what to do with it, it happens. there are very detailed descriptions in how the world began in sikhi. even descriptions on the galaxies. this is at a time when people thought the world was flat. im not trying to preach my religion, rather jus state what i have found. as i did also look into islam for answers. sorry if i have offended any one. the theory of reincarnation goes in hand with inesteins theory of enery. cant be destroyed or created, just changes from one form to another. the forms are decided from actions. it is when reaching the human life concious decisions can be made, and is the oppertunity to break out of life cycle.

[- Qatada -]

Media Tags are no longer supported

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58&eurl=

[- Qatada -]

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

(Qur'an 21:30)


It is He who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot; then He brings you out as a child; then [He develops you] that you reach your [time of] maturity, then [further] that you become elders. And among you is he who is taken in death before [that], so that you reach a specified term; and perhaps you will use reason.

He it is who gives life and causes death; and when He decrees a matter, He but says to it, "Be," and it is.


[Qur'an 40:67-68]

The Qur'an was revealed before the Guru Grant Sahib. I don't mean to offend you, but people could use the argument that he used the Qur'an to get his works. But Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.

[One Man Army]

there are many scientific facts that the Guru Granth Sahib ji has revealed that in that day and age no one would ever believe. things such as being he world being a globe. the fact that there are millions of universes. it supports the evolution theory. sperm and egg forming the body.

sikhi teaches and talks of things such as paradise. sikhs aim for a target higher then paradise. paradise is still seen as apart of maya (dillusion) in sikhi. the test is to overcome the 5 thieves, one of them being lust. sikhs ultimate goal is to become one with God. and step out of the worldy pleasures, and realise the true pleasure.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

but the Quran revealed all those before the guru, and the quran not only specified it as round or spherical but as SHAPED LIKE THE EGG OF AN OSTRICH ! That was extremely accurate. Also all the other points you made and FAR MORE the Quran described them all !

Ultimate Truth, you have the beliefs of a muslim as it seems, so become a muslim ;)

[One Man Army]

have you got evidence of these quotes?? i dont like the idea of paradise after death, the having virgin part. sikhism seems so pure to me. not sayin islam isnt. its a religion devout to serving humanity, it welcomes all no matter what background you belong 2!

[- Qatada -]

It's explained in the Qur'an how the earth isn't just a sphere, but how its shaped in the form of an ostrich egg [which is even more accurate] because the world is fat in the center, and it is more egg shaped than just a normal sphere shape. The Qur'an came before the guru granth sahib by the way. :)


Also, we are told to stay away from the things that Allaah has forbidden for us, and He has forbidden them for us so we don't fall into harm. Allaah Almighty out of His Mercy has also made alot of things permissible for us - so we can enjoy this life, but we shouldn't go to the extent of preferring this world over the eternal hereafter because that could lead to falling into sin and disobeying Allaah, the Most Wise.


The paradise of the hereafter is real, and psychology shows that humans need positive reinforcement to obey. Negative reinforcement and also punishment can be used [so this can be explained by the punishment of hellfire and the reward of paradise [eternal pleasure.] And Allaah Almighty know's best.




Peace. :)

[One Man Army]

ostrich eggs r oval!! not a globe shape!

[One Man Army]

have you got evidence of there being millions of galaxies? or that the universe is expanding? or the world being a globe shape?

[- Qatada -]

Thats an ostrich egg brother. :)



Peace.

[- Qatada -]

With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof. (Qur'an 51:47)


Heaven' is the translation of the word sama' and this is exactly the extra-terrestrial world that is meant. 'We are expanding it' is the translation of the plural present participle musi'una of the verb ausa'a meaning 'to make wider, more spacious, to extend, to expand'.


More info:
http://www.islamicity.com/Science/Expansion.shtml

[One Man Army]

the ostrich egg is long but not wide. where as the world is wide n not as long. where is your proof that the quran states all of these things? galaxies? expansion? about the moon being a reflector of the sun? etc

[One Man Army]

and what about evolution? wheres the ostrich quote? and any info on solar system?

[- Qatada -]

THE LIGHT OF THE MOON IS REFLECTED LIGHT

It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light.

Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’aan 1,400 years ago in the following verse:.



“Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, And placed therein a Lamp And a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’aan 25:61]


The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’aan, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’.

All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion.



The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’aan as muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light.


Again, the Qur’aanic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun.


Not once in the Qur’aan, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’aan recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.







We don't believe in an evolution theory like some atheists do. We believe Adam was the first man, and Hawwa (peace be upon her) was his wife, created by Allaah Almighty.




“And the earth, moreover, Hath He made egg shaped.” 2 [Al-Qur’aan
79:30]

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaha, which means an ostrich-egg.

The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.

Thus the Qur’aan correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’aan was revealed was that the earth is flat.


The shape you described above describes an ostrich egg exactly. :)

[- Qatada -]

Try checking this pdf book out - The Qur'an and Modern Science by Zakir Naik.

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf


Or you can watch his vids:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=zakir+naik




Peace brother. :)

[One Man Army]

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."

It ses this in the quran? i dont understand how you can reach the setting place of the sun?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

the ostrich egg is long but not wide. where as the world is wide n not as long. where is your proof that the quran states all of these things? galaxies? expansion? about the moon being a reflector of the sun? etc

www.islamcan.com

also you can just read the Quran :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."

It ses this in the quran? i dont understand how you can reach the setting place of the sun?

when you quote, please quote the exact verse number etc so we may read please :)

[One Man Army]

30:
Muhsin Khan: And after that He spread the earth;

31:
Muhsin Khan: And brought forth therefrom its water and its pasture

79:30

i cant find no refrence to an egg??

Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, And placed therein a Lamp And a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’aan 25:61]

The lamp isnt placed in the sky though? and the moon doesnt give light. it reflects it??

61:
Muhsin Khan: Blessed be He Who has placed in the heaven big stars, and has placed therein a great lamp (sun), and a moon giving light.

here is the translation i found for it???


i am sorry but alot of these quotes seem adapted to suit your purpose.

you said about adam being the first man. does this mean that he had to have intercourse with his daughter or mother with son to continue humanity?? and how does this explain black people, brown people, and white people?

[One Man Army]

sory if my post seems offensive!! i dont mean to!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

brother the links that fi-sabillilaah poster, i assure you they answer all these questions. Please watch it, it would take very long for me to watch it for you and extract it. However if you like i will be willing to do even that.

:peace: :)


PS: i am not offended at all

[One Man Army]

would be grateful if you could extract them. as well as answer the part to adam please. thanks

[One Man Army]

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
18:86

[IbnAbdulHakim]

would be grateful if you could extract them. as well as answer the part to adam please. thanks

ok give me a week inshaAllah, i will have to go through three hours of lectures and extract the necessary parts.


Please dont leave by then :p

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
18:86

when you look over the horizon at the beach what do you see, does it not appear as though the sun is slowly diving into the see? at that time the sea looked muddy and black.


i am not a scholar or anything, but that is what i think it might mean, i will research on the tafseer, till then plz wait

[- Qatada -]

Hi UT. :)


I think you're checking surah kahf [18]
http://quranicrealm.com/viewverses.php?q=18


The surah i quoted about the egg was in surah naazi'at. [79] - http://quranicrealm.com/viewverses.php?q=79&langs=264


It's within its tafsir/explanation, a translation can't cover every single verse in detail. Plus we don't accept any translation as the Qur'an, but the Qur'an can only be classed as the Qur'an if it is in the arabic language.



The part which you quote about the setting part of the sun is simple. Why do we call it 'sunset' or 'sunrise' in english if we scientifically know that it isn't correct? Its only used as a figure of speech, yet even the english language uses it.



The final part which you say about Adam (peace be upon him) is that he had a wife, which Allaah created from his (Adam's) rib. [If you object to that, realise that Allaah can create anything - and cloning nowadays is used by using similar cells.] From these two they had children/offspring and life of humans carried on forward like that.


more info:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...ildren%20marry




Also remember that as time progresses the people may move to different lands so their color can change, and their is also the idea of gene mutation - where the child may be different (i.e both parents may be brown haired, brown eyed - but due to gene mutation - their child has blue eyes and blond hair etc.

More info on gene mutation can be viewed here insha'Allaah:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation


Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

jazakAllah khair fi-sabillilaah, you saved three hours of my life :p

[snakelegs]

Thats an ostrich egg brother. :)



Peace.

see that? you can get everything on this forum! even moderators that lay eggs.....is that not miraculous? i am not young and i have never seen a picture of an oistrich egg - another first here.....
;D :giggling: :happy:

[snakelegs]

It's a taboo subject to tackle i guess. In Sikhism one isn't supposed to think negatively of anyone. Be they good or bad! - Disabled people are the perfect examples of reincarnation (not meant as an insult) Only the Lord God knows what we have done no human can. - That does not mean we can ridicule the disabled, as this is against Gods wishes. The Guru's embraced people who were insane and were dieseased (sp) Jesus did so too, and Mohammed. Let us not get the pitchforks out over such a subject. If anyone can offer a better explanation please do so. :)

This shows us humans that all humankind are within the will of the Lord. He does as he wishes. And is accountable to none!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

SSA,
yes - i think you're right. that sikhism doesn't have this problem with karma - maybe because of the culture it grew out of? i think this negative/distorted view of it - when it can turn into blaming the victim is more common in east asia.
i also think sikhism, like islam, christianity and judaism has the concept of charity whereas i think this is lacking in "eastern religions". maybe somebody who knows can tell us....
there are many things that are good in sikhism, i would agree.
personally, i like the fact that, like judaism and islam, it is monotheistic.

[One Man Army]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

sikhism is also monotheistic. the whole Guru Granth sahib ji is based around one term, ik oa(n)kaar: One Universal Creator God

here is the first text of the Guru Granth Sahib ji

ik oa(n)kaar sath naam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibha(n) gur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~



] jpu ]

|| jap ||

Chant And Meditate:



Awid scu jugwid scu ]

aadh sach jugaadh sach ||

True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.



hY BI scu nwnk hosI BI scu ]1]

hai bhee sach naanak hosee bhee sach ||1||

True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

[IbnAbdulHakim]

you boast monotheism and yet you say by guru's grace? Isnt that like treating the guru as your God?

[- Qatada -]

Hi ultimatetruth.


At the beginning of the thread you said you were a muslim, after that you said you was searching for the truth, and now you're preaching sikhism. If you want to learn about islaam, please say so and we will keep answering your questions insha'Allaah. If you just come here to promote your religion, please don't continue because this isn't a forum promoting sikhism.



Peace. :)

[snakelegs]

is sikhism a proselytizing religion?

[One Man Army]

No it isnt. it is an independant faith that principles challanged many traditions followed by others. such as ritualism, idol worship etc. for more information please check out websites such as mrsikhnet.com, or allaboutsikhs.com, or just google search it.

it said by the Gurus Grace, as it is through the Gurus grace that this truth about this God has been heard. the shabad. there is a deep science to the vibrations and current of the shabad. i think you need to see translations your self to truely understand it. try:

sikhitothemax.com,

or searchgurbani.com

in the islamic call to prayer you say how you declare muhammad is the last prophet of allah. it isnt saying the guru is god. im afraid youve totally misunderstood whats being said. i can reply to you in the same fashion for the call to prayer.

[One Man Army]

i apologise. i think i have gone into preaching sikhi mode. ive recently discovered this faith and am very enthusiastic about it. forgive me. i will no longer post sikhi promoting posts unless asked a question.

[- Qatada -]

Okay, thanks for your info. :) Seems like everyone's answered all your questions so we'll give it a break insha'Allaah.


Thread Closed.