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sonz
11-04-2006, 05:53 PM
Protesting the rapid growth of the Muslim population worldwide, and the failure of the Protestant Church’s inability to contain it, Roland Weisselberg a 73-year retired priest committed suicide by setting himself on fire at a German monastery, according to United Press International.

Weisselberg died Wednesday in a hospital after having poured a can of petrol over his entire body at Augustine monastery in the eastern city of Erfurt, where Martin Luther spent six years as a monk at the beginning of the 16th century.

Church officials expressed their shock at the incident, stressing that closer dialogue with Islam was crucial to bridge the gap between Muslims and Christians.

Weisselberg was still holding sermons less than two weeks ago.

Witnesses said the former priest climbed into a building site next to the monastery church, where a Reformation Day service was being held, and began shouting “Jesus and Oskar (apparently referring to Oskar Brüsewitz, a priest who burnt himself in 1976 in protest against the Communist regime in East Germany)” before setting his body on fire.

The Protestant Bishop of Saxony, Axel Noack, said the suicide had shocked the community, adding that the incident shouldn’t affect relations between Christians and the Muslim world.

Statistics show that Islam is the second-largest religion in the world after Christianity. It is also the fastest growing religion on Earth.

Following a period of tension, aroused as a result of a Danish newspaper’s publication of blasphemous cartoons ridiculing prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Pope Benedict remarks linking Islam to violence, positive initiatives by representatives of both communities, Christians and Muslims ensured that such incidents did not affect the good ties between the followers of the two religions.

Recent months witnessed the set up of various organisations and conferences all aimed at fostering good, meaningful relationships between Muslims and Christians, so that issues of concern to both can be tackled within a framework of mutual respect and deep understanding.
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Snowflake
11-04-2006, 05:57 PM
:eek: Wow! I think by doing that he proved that Islam and muslims can't be beaten. Allahu Akbar!
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IzakHalevas
11-04-2006, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
:eek: Wow! I think by doing that he proved that Islam and muslims can't be beaten. Allahu Akbar!
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes. Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
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Grace Seeker
11-04-2006, 07:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
:eek: Wow! I think by doing that he proved that Islam and muslims can't be beaten. Allahu Akbar!

I doubt if the actions of one priest prove anything one way or the other about any religion. They probably prove only that he was troubled deep in his spirit.
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glo
11-04-2006, 07:15 PM
He must have been very disturbed. May God forgive him!

I think by doing that he proved that Islam and muslims can't be beaten.
Whatdo you mean by that, muslimah sister? :?

Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
I agree, Izak. I dislike this 'who-is-the-biggest'-thinking too. :rollseyes

Peace
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Bittersteel
11-04-2006, 07:17 PM
^Yep me too.but that's mainly for power and strength.

can I have the source of this info?for some reason I doubt the authenticity of this news.
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Umar001
11-04-2006, 07:21 PM
Sounds wierd, I woulda thought he woulda known better.
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InToTheRain
11-04-2006, 07:24 PM
hmmm...its still not clear from the report that he burnt himself because of the rise in the number of Muslims. He could've burnt himself cause of other reasons :?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes.
I hope your not referring to Islam when you say "not two minutes." If not, then u can ignore that.
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snowdropjasmine
11-04-2006, 07:31 PM
true that is what i thought too:? ;D
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 07:35 PM
Lol I said it cuz in Islam, its best u declare ur testimony of faith sooner rather than later. You dont know whether u will die in the process.
Anyways, I don't understand why he committed suicide...?
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Curious girl2
11-04-2006, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Emir Aziz
^Yep me too.but that's mainly for power and strength.

can I have the source of this info?for some reason I doubt the authenticity of this news.

Its true, sadly. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...434625,00.html

The man must have had a very disturbed state of mind.
Peace
CG
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*charisma*
11-04-2006, 07:40 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

format_quote Originally Posted by tayaba
I hope your not referring to Islam when you say "not two minutes." If not, then u can ignore that.
even if he did refer it..it's two minutes to convert (its probably less) which is easy for anyone to do, and its a lifetime of practicing afterwards..and you can learn about it voluntarily before-hand and when you feel its right for you, you can do the conversion right away--not a whole year or something like that, you could die anytime in that one year and not get the benefit of being a part of the religion you want to be in.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Wow! I think by doing that he proved that Islam and muslims can't be beaten. Allahu Akbar!
She meant that Islam can't be presently outtaken by its present increase in its converts/reversions.

format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHelevas
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
You are right, it shouldn't matter. what should matter is how many of those muslims are practicing and living up to their name.

fi aman allah
w'salaam
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AbdulHassanAmir
11-04-2006, 07:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes. Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
Meaning no one can destroy it. Sort of like how Zoroastrianism was wiped off the map? Also numbers play a role in comparing religons. Without anyone worshipping a religon how can it hope to advance?
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Pk_#2
11-04-2006, 07:45 PM
:'(

...That actually makes me feel ill!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



even if he did refer it..it's two minutes to convert (its probably less) which is easy for anyone to do, and its a lifetime of practicing afterwards..and you can learn about it voluntarily before-hand and when you feel its right for you, you can do the conversion right away--not a whole year or something like that, you could die anytime in that one year and not get the benefit of being a part of the religion you want to be in.
Yes I know sis, thanks lol :)
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The Ruler
11-04-2006, 07:50 PM
:sl:

you know...i just have a hunch that tells me that the suicide was not due to the rapid increase in muslim population...it just seems too ridiculous to be true :heated:

:w:
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*charisma*
11-04-2006, 07:50 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Yes I know sis, thanks lol
lol^^i was still typin up my message when u posted, so i didnt get to see it...srry didnt want to make it sound like u didnt kno

fi aman allah
w'salaam
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Umar001
11-04-2006, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
:'(

...That actually makes me feel ill!
Lol, Why you sick for?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



lol^^i was still typin up my message when u posted, so i didnt get to see it...srry didnt want to make it sound like u didnt kno

fi aman allah
w'salaam
loool aight :)
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Pk_#2
11-04-2006, 07:55 PM
I can picture it, tis sad...nah?

I still don't get why he did it....am quite slow with these typa threads, need to spend more time on 'world affairs' section!
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The Ruler
11-04-2006, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
I can picture it, tis sad...nah?

I still don't get why he did it....am quite slow with these typa threads, need to spend more time on 'world affairs' section!
it is sad if you imagine it the way my friend puts it :vomit:...and how could someone burn themselves unless they have got mental disorders??...no one in the right mind would do that sort of thing!!

:w:
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Umar001
11-04-2006, 07:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
I can picture it, tis sad...nah?

I still don't get why he did it....am quite slow with these typa threads, need to spend more time on 'world affairs' section!
Wow imagine the punishment though in the hereafter, oh man, I hope he was mentally ill.
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Pk_#2
11-04-2006, 08:00 PM
May Allah forgive him!

Ouch!!

i feel sick stop ittt!!

:(
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 08:02 PM
Ok sis...loool :)
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lavikor201
11-04-2006, 08:44 PM
Meaning no one can destroy it. Sort of like how Zoroastrianism was wiped off the map? Also numbers play a role in comparing religons. Without anyone worshipping a religon how can it hope to advance?
Destroy it? What on earth are you talking about... You say that Muslims should care about how many people are Muslims and how many there are because that removes the possibility of them being destroyed? As a Jew, I believe that G-d will protect me and my religion as he has done for thousands of years when we are persecuted, and I don't count on a numbers game.
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- Qatada -
11-04-2006, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Destroy it? What on earth are you talking about... You say that Muslims should care about how many people are Muslims and how many there are because that removes the possibility of them being destroyed? As a Jew, I believe that G-d will protect me and my religion as he has done for thousands of years when we are persecuted, and I don't count on a numbers game.

Allaah has honored this ummah, and the times we are humiliated is when we turn our backs to it. What we see right now in this world is the consequences of turning away from the true guidance. Even though there are over 1billion muslims in the world, we are still disrespected and muslim blood is cheap.

The muslims at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) were only a minority, yet islaam spread to different areas of the world within their lifetime. Allaah protected them because they obeyed Him, and the same will happen to us if we follow islaam whole heartedly and sincerely insha'Allaah.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.
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Protected_Diamond
11-04-2006, 08:51 PM
Loads of muslims but weak or no emaan, sad!
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Tania
11-04-2006, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by +*Glacier*+
:sl:

you know...i just have a hunch that tells me that the suicide was not due to the rapid increase in muslim population...it just seems too ridiculous to be true :heated:

:w:
I agree with you.
He committed a serious sin - taking his life against God will - he will not have a funeral sermon either. Its sad to think he dedicated his entire life to God and in the end he turned his face from it.
Rest in peace
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-04-2006, 10:43 PM
True =\
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Umar001
11-04-2006, 11:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tania
he will not have a funeral sermon either.
For real?
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Rou
11-05-2006, 12:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes. Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
You dont need training in beleive in allah...its your own choice you have no one to prove it to...

your journey is between you and allah..
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seeker_of_ilm
11-05-2006, 12:26 AM
:sl:

I really don't understand the significance of people saying Islam is the fastest growing religion, and that "theres over a billion of us". When quite clearly, this Ummah is in a messy state. We have many muslims, but very little Islam. Look at the times of the Sahabas, there were few muslims, but a lot of Islam. Its about Quality of faith of the believers, not the quantity.

:w:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-05-2006, 12:38 AM
Thats right. Whats the point of the amount when some of them are just going further away....
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AbdulHassanAmir
11-05-2006, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Destroy it? What on earth are you talking about... You say that Muslims should care about how many people are Muslims and how many there are because that removes the possibility of them being destroyed? As a Jew, I believe that G-d will protect me and my religion as he has done for thousands of years when we are persecuted, and I don't count on a numbers game.
So you would be totally indifferent if you were the last jew on earth?
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Skillganon
11-05-2006, 01:22 AM
I am finding the story hard to believe (not denying it) but why would you wan't to burn yourself over spread of Islam.
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SirZubair
11-05-2006, 10:15 AM
Asalam alaikum,

sonz, could you possibly provide us with a Link to the Source, please? :)

I want to post this article elsewhere, but i need a sourse first

wa'salam

-Zubair
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snakelegs
11-05-2006, 10:50 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...434625,00.html
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AvarAllahNoor
11-05-2006, 10:53 AM
It's not spreading in the conversion sense but, increasing by muslim population. there is a difference.
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Umar001
11-05-2006, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
Peep this:

The Berlin Deutsche Oper has said that it will stage the opera, which has a scene showing the severed heads of the Prophet Muhammad, Jesus and Buddha.
:grumbling :grumbling :grumbling :grumbling
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AvarAllahNoor
11-05-2006, 10:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Thats right. Whats the point of the amount when some of them are just going further away....
Hear Hear! - It should be 'quality' and not 'quantity' most belong to cults or sects that follow silly rituals.:)
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Tania
11-05-2006, 10:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Peep this:



:grumbling :grumbling :grumbling :grumbling
I am not surprised because the germans are faimous for the corps art-which is more than the profanation of deads. We can realise they are searching an easy way to increase their incomes.
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Malaikah
11-05-2006, 11:14 AM
:sl:

How do they know it was because of the growing number of Muslims that he did this to himself?

This is very strange indeed...
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Umar001
11-05-2006, 11:17 AM
If you read the second source posted by snake it gives a clue there.

The Provost of Erfurt, Elfriede Begrich, told reporters that Weisselberg’s widow had said that he killed himself because he was alarmed at the spread of Islam and the Church’s stance on the issue.

She described Weisselberg as an erudite man who had addressed repeatedly the Church’s position on Islam in meetings over the past three to four years. He had written to her, urging her to take the matter more seriously, she said.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...434625,00.html
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Malaikah
11-05-2006, 11:21 AM
:sl:

thanks.

hmmm... interesting.. i wonder what that means exactly...
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Somalina
11-05-2006, 11:31 AM
~~Salaam~~

**he was alarmed at the spread of Islam and the Church’s stance on the issue**

According to himThe church should have done something about the spread about islam:?

for someone his age,who's seen a lot,it's sad that he ended his life that way,self destruction is no solution..

*Islam is God's religion* The only true path...
*May Allah SWT Guide the muslim Ummah and Protect them*
Ameen:)
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Umm Khalid06
11-05-2006, 01:41 PM
so did he burn himself because of islam spreading so fastthat is not a reason to kill him self or maybe he was Depressed for some reason and people though it was Islam because he hated it so much:?
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Zulkiflim
11-06-2006, 08:47 AM
Salaam,

It is always sad when a person of what ever calibre or standing lose himself to despair.

I guess that it is becasue he was losing faith in his own religion.

I guess for him number means that a religon is right.

I guess for him maybe the richer a person is the more they are right or blessed.

Astarfillah,muslim in the world face the same dificulties.

I have encoutnered many muslim who fell into despair saying,we are follwing the true religon,but why does Allah not aid us?

I always say to them,read the quran the answer is there.
We are servant ,this is a test,if you seek grandues and seek to be right just becasue you are muslim,then pray tell,how come the Prophet Muhammad saw suffered great suffering and pain.
Why did his beloved wife die,and his sons all die?

Did he fall out of faith?


Sad sad sad,,do not let it overcome the true light.
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north_malaysian
11-06-2006, 08:51 AM
What a ridiculous chap.... I think he has mental disturbance.... even ... IF the whole population being Muslims.... to kill himself because of it is the most ridiculous reason to commit suicide ... let alone to burn himself...

What he achieved - NOTHING.
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Snowflake
11-06-2006, 09:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
She meant that Islam can't be presently outtaken by its present increase in its converts/reversions.
That's exactly what I meant. :)

But only Allah knows his real reasons. Even though the rapid spread of Islam must've been very depressing for a man dedicated to spreading christianity, it still doesn't seem a reason to commit suicide. What a trajic way to end one's life, regardless of the reason.
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stannis
11-06-2006, 02:23 PM
He was protesting the spread of Islamic culture to Christian Europe. He fears that it may undermine the traditional European culture that has been the bedrock of this continent for centuries. Whether you agree with him or not, I hope no Muslim is so cruel as to celebrate his death. It was an act of desperation.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
11-06-2006, 03:00 PM
:sl:

"Allah showed me all corners of the earth.I saw its East and its West, and i saw that my Ummah will possess of it what He showed me from it."
(Muslim,Abu Dawud,Ibn Majah, & Al-Tirmidhi)

:w:
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Skillganon
11-06-2006, 03:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by stannis
He was protesting the spread of Islamic culture to Christian Europe. He fears that it may undermine the traditional European culture that has been the bedrock of this continent for centuries. Whether you agree with him or not, I hope no Muslim is so cruel as to celebrate his death. It was an act of desperation.
Come on, their is better way to protest than setting yourself on fire.
We are not celebrating his death. Just bit shocking (if the story is true).
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stannis
11-06-2006, 03:37 PM
True, there are better ways to protest.

But as Jan Palach in Czechoslovakia and Buddhist monks in Vietnam have proven, it tends to get your attention...
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Muezzin
11-06-2006, 04:58 PM
General notice - laughing at a person's suicide is not befitting of a human being, and any posts that I or another moderator deem to be of this nature will be deleted.
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north_malaysian
11-07-2006, 03:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by stannis
I hope no Muslim is so cruel as to celebrate his death.
It's prohibited to celebrate people's death...
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
It's prohibited to celebrate people's death...
I guess that is why we don't have a party after a funeral. :?
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Dhulqarnaeen
11-07-2006, 04:32 AM
:sl:
Sad news but theres great lessons from it, masha Allah.

1. A priest is a call for someone who have a lot of knowledges in Christian, a priest is an ulama/scholar for Christian -wallahu yahdih-. So Im wondering where is his knowledges by burnt his self with fire? Isnt this is a sign that being Christian is batil and knowledges from the bibble CANT do anything good to the believers it self? :rollseyes

2. A priest is a scholar to Christian people, just like Ulama for muslims. And muslims should follow every fatawa from their ulama (salaf) as hard as they can. And the more they can practise Islam by the explanation and the practises of their ulama then its better. So...an ulama is also an idol/modle/an example in Islam, cause the scholars in Islam is them who afraid Allah most, like Quran said that the most human who fear Allah is al Ulama, so the ulama in Islam is them who will practise Islamic teaching in their lifes, and the people will follow what they do, cause what they do is Islam and it will never can be separated. So...can the Christian do the same now? Can they burn them self to follow their scholars? :uuh: Or at least to show the simpathy, just burn tiny part of their finger :uhwhat NO they wont do that ALTHOUGH they still call all priest who done sins (suicide, rapes, homosexuals etc) as their priests. Wallahul mustaan.

3. The right religion, will not teach the believers this kinda acts.And especially Islam have forbid muslims to do a suicide, its a big sins. And especially the scholars, theyre the people who fear Allah most, so its IMPOSSIBLE the scholars or even ustadh of Islam (who understand ISlam in the right way) doing suicide, Allahu A'lam.

4. The older of our Islamic scholars will be, then their mind wont go weaker. Opposite, their mind get sharper than before. They dont know the word "retired" cause all muslims need them, and as we know Islam says "the time is like a sword", and every little time we have in our life will be asked by Allah Azza wa jalla, so they want their time used to serve the islamic society,thats ulama in Islam. They dont want to retire and its a shame for them if they do that.
And they have remembered thousands of hadiths and whole Quranic verses, and its still in their braind till they die. Now, first tell me, who is the Christians scholars who remember whoooole bible? And how these Christian scholars dead? Even Paus Paulus who just dead months ago dead in terrible condition :offended:. So isnt it the prove that Islam is the LIGHT that will make the holder have respectfull life? And someone who remember Quran, and practise them and sunnah, then Allah will protect them and take care of them best. Cause they always say dua "Allahumma inni audhubika minal ajzi wal kasali, wal jubni wal bukhli".

5. Its a sign that Christian doesnt have a fix law on someone who do suicide. And if they do, then how can their own scholars do this? Amazing.

Maybe you guys can tell us another hikmah about this news insha Allah
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glo
11-10-2006, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tania
I am not surprised because the germans are faimous for the corps art-which is more than the profanation of deads. We can realise they are searching an easy way to increase their incomes.
Really?? :?

I am German myself, and not familiar with this particular style of art ... :uuh:
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glo
11-10-2006, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dhulqarnaeen
:sl:
Sad news but theres great lessons from it, masha Allah.

[...]

5. Its a sign that Christian doesnt have a fix law on someone who do suicide. And if they do, then how can their own scholars do this? Amazing.

Maybe you guys can tell us another hikmah about this news insha Allah
Greetings Dhulqarnaeen

Do you really think the actions of one man (even if he was a cleric) can be taken as evidence for the teachings and validity of an entire faith??? :?

Do you think there may be examples of other religious leaders in this world, who go off the railings and commit acts contrary to the teachings of their religion? If so, does that deem all those religions false?
Could it be possible that even imams may err and do wrong? Or is that impossible in your view?

Peace
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Tania
11-10-2006, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Really?? :?

I am German myself, and not familiar with this particular style of art ... :uuh:
I was talking about this artist:

Gunther von Hagens (born Gunther Liebchen on January 10, 1945) is a controversial German anatomist who invented the plastination technique to conserve specimen and is heavily involved in its promotion. He developed the Body Worlds exhibition of human bodies and body parts.
Source
I didn't have the gut to watch it but there is a link on the page where you can see more.
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glo
11-10-2006, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tania
I was talking about this artist:

Gunther von Hagens (born Gunther Liebchen on January 10, 1945) is a controversial German anatomist who invented the plastination technique to conserve specimen and is heavily involved in its promotion. He developed the Body Worlds exhibition of human bodies and body parts.
Source
I didn't have the gut to watch it but there is a link on the page where you can see more.
Let's hope there are not many more 'artists' like that!
This may be fine in a medical school ... but I wouldn't call it art.

:uuh: :X +o( :vomit:
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north_malaysian
11-13-2006, 03:23 AM
Is it lawful to commit suicide in Christianity?:rollseyes
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Keltoi
11-13-2006, 03:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Is it lawful to commit suicide in Christianity?:rollseyes
Absolutely not.
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north_malaysian
11-13-2006, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Absolutely not.
Do you mean that whatever the priest did ... is a sin?:rollseyes
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abdur_Rahmaan
11-13-2006, 03:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes. Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
In Islaam, it's not about the quantity, it's about quality. How many people are practicing correctly, maa shaa Allaah?

Plus, look at all the messengers that came before us, calling to the worship of Allaah, alone, without partner, and no one followed him. There will be Prophets like this on the Day of Standing: Prophets with no followers. Some with one. So, Truth is by quality not quantity.

Islaam can not be compared to Christianity or Judaism, that's simple. Islaam is an abrogation to Christian and Jewish religions. As the Qur'aan is the abrogation to the "originally revealed" scriptures. And all praises and thanks are due to Allaah, alone, without partner, Lord of mankind, jinn and all that exists.
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abdur_Rahmaan
11-13-2006, 03:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Is it lawful to commit suicide in Christianity?:rollseyes
Generally, paraphrasing, the Prophet (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), said, "Whoever kills himself with a metal object in this world will repeat it in the Hell-fire, eternally." or somewhere alone those lines, maa shaa allaah.
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Keltoi
11-13-2006, 03:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Do you mean that whatever the priest did ... is a sin?:rollseyes
Well, I don't claim to be his judge, that is for God alone, but suicide is a sin in Christianity according to the scriptures.
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north_malaysian
11-13-2006, 03:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, I don't claim to be his judge, that is for God alone, but suicide is a sin in Christianity according to the scriptures.
If he had some mental problem like 'ultra-stress' or something that makes him cannot think reasonably ... then it's not amounted to suicide... but it's upon God to decide.
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Curious girl2
11-13-2006, 10:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
If he had some mental problem like 'ultra-stress' or something that makes him cannot think reasonably ... then it's not amounted to suicide... but it's upon God to decide.
I wonder then, what would be considered suicide? Surely no-one in their *right* mind would kill themselves, so they are not thinking reasonably.

Just a few thoughts running round head, that's all

Peace
CG
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stannis
11-13-2006, 04:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, I don't claim to be his judge, that is for God alone, but suicide is a sin in Christianity according to the scriptures.
I think martyrdom is considered acceptable under certain circumstances in Catholic theology - not sure how the priest's suicide could be stretched to that, but you never know.
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Keltoi
11-13-2006, 07:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by stannis
I think martyrdom is considered acceptable under certain circumstances in Catholic theology - not sure how the priest's suicide could be stretched to that, but you never know.
I actually discussed this possibility with someone earlier today. Did the priest believe what he did was on the level of martyrdom for Christ? I don't see how he could have reached that conclusion, but that is between him and God. Traditionally, a "martyr" for Christ is one who is killed because they refuse to denounce their faith or die in defense of the Church. This seemed more an act of political protest than martyrdom, but again, that is between him and the Almighty.
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Dhulqarnaeen
11-14-2006, 01:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Greetings Dhulqarnaeen

Do you really think the actions of one man (even if he was a cleric) can be taken as evidence for the teachings and validity of an entire faith??? :?

Do you think there may be examples of other religious leaders in this world, who go off the railings and commit acts contrary to the teachings of their religion? If so, does that deem all those religions false?
Could it be possible that even imams may err and do wrong? Or is that impossible in your view?

Peace
Wallahu yahdik,
In Islam, the knowledge is like a "light", it will guide the person in to the best state of condition in earth and life here after. And if we talk about someone like a "priest" or ustadh in Islam, then thee kinda people is someone who should have acquiring more knowledges than usual person right? So...if you ask me "can be taken as evidence for the teachings and validity of an entire faith??? :? " , then I say "YES", most of it its the fault in Christianity teachings fault. And that the prove that the teaching havent made a deep painting to the religions holders heart. Look ISLAM, like I said before, in Islam someone who gain more knowledge then they will know that commit suicide is a BIG sin, and no one who understand their religion will do somehting like this . Cause theyre afraid to sins, even usual muslim will stay away from commit suicide. But look at the priest, the knowledge from the bible couldnt stop him from hurting him self, masha Allah. Didnt he afraid of his own lord? No ustadh or scholars in Islam will do suicide insha Allah in whatever stressfull condition.

And in Islam, if some imams doing somemistakes, then its human I know, theyre still human. But at least their mistakes will not make them commit suicide or doing some big sins in Islam, insha Allah. Why I can say that? Cause the knowledge in them, the knowledge in them save them from sins and they have notice all doors that can lead them to sins, so they can stay away as far as they can be.
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scentsofjannah
11-14-2006, 01:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Beaten? Beaten at what? Is religion all a numbers game to Muslims and Christians? In Judaism, you have to be go through rigerous training/learning to convert that takes over a year. Not two minutes. Every religion could not care about having more people then all the others ones. I actually view that as one of the most worthless statistics their is when comparing religions.
:sl:

I quite agree with you..i myself i'm annoyed when muslims continually remind people that Islam is the fastest growing religion..one of the main factors is birth rate and conversions plays a significant but small part too..i don't take pride in quantity ..we should ask ourselves about the quality of those muslims....anyways conversion to Islam doesnt take 'two minutes'..any search for the truth takes a considerable length of time..months , years ..when a person feels they are ready all they have to do is say I believe there no god( ilah ) but Almighty God (Allah) and Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) is his final prophet...we don't reject them or tell them they cannot be classified as muslim nor do we have to tell them to undergo any training...knowledge will increase as the years go by..through the use of their mind and interacting with muslims more knowledgable than themselves.

:w:
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Ninth_Scribe
11-14-2006, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sonz
The Protestant Bishop of Saxony, Axel Noack, said the suicide had shocked the community, adding that the incident shouldn’t affect relations between Christians and the Muslim world
Don't even get me started on the subject of the priesthood. They haven't even begun to feel the rough edge of my sword... which is just the truth!

They're finished as far as I'm concerned ~ Game Over!!!

Ninth Scribe
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Muezzin
11-14-2006, 07:42 PM
I've noticed certain members have been posting remarks ridiculing this chap's suicide. Please do not do this as it is needlessly offensive. I have deleted the post in question and any posts which were quoting it.
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north_malaysian
11-15-2006, 03:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I've noticed certain members have been posting remarks ridiculing this chap's suicide. Please do not do this as it is needlessly offensive. I have deleted the post in question and any posts which were quoting it.
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
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scentsofjannah
11-15-2006, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I've noticed certain members have been posting remarks ridiculing this chap's suicide. Please do not do this as it is needlessly offensive. I have deleted the post in question and any posts which were quoting it.
May Allah reward you brother..ameen
Reply

scentsofjannah
11-15-2006, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
If he had some mental problem like 'ultra-stress' or something that makes him cannot think reasonably ... then it's not amounted to suicide... but it's upon God to decide.
excellent point..many people who commit suicide suffer from some sort of mental illness..e.g extreme depression..in that case we do not say they are sinning because as you stated they cannot think straight.
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Ninth_Scribe
11-15-2006, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
excellent point..many people who commit suicide suffer from some sort of mental illness..e.g extreme depression..in that case we do not say they are sinning because as you stated they cannot think straight.
When a soul is weighted down and burdened, the person doesn't shine and it thirsts for the light of love. For some, this soul is not a sign of strength and is thus looked upon as a burden, so the soul must go inside it's mind to remember things to nourish itself. For some souls, it's a favorite childhood memory. For others, they gleen the nourishment from things they saw.

When you attend a funeral, something very special happens. For starters, to the dead, all your friends and family come to see you. They never fight at this time, and they never speak of your sins or personal failings. In fact, they surround you with a powerful circle of love and forgive you. They honor your life... even silly notes or a grocery list you wrote the other day become cherished to them. You become as the newborn child; pure, beloved and protected.

Because of this, I could see how a person lacking these blessings in Life, would seek them in Death.

Ninth Scribe

BTW: I know I go off on the Christian priesthood, but this is over an abuse of records and a blatant disregard for celebacy vows. It doesn't even involve the general priesthood... my focus is at the leadership level. I shouldn't have gone off on this particular thread. Apologies.
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Grace Seeker
11-20-2006, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Is it lawful to commit suicide in Christianity?
Well, I don't claim to be his judge, that is for God alone, but suicide is a sin in Christianity according to the scriptures.

Taking one's own life would be just as bad as taking another's life. But that doesn't mean that is is unforgivable (in either case). As I often see on these boards: Allah knows best.
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Skillganon
11-20-2006, 08:43 PM
To whatever the impulse came from for his decision, he is in the hand of his creator now.
Reply

Muhammad
11-23-2006, 08:07 PM
:sl:

Please advice the brother via pm (in reference to deleted posts).
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