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Hajar
11-06-2006, 06:05 PM
Moroccan airline bans prayer time


Morocco's state airline Royal Air Maroc has banned its staff praying at their offices and headquarters.

The company says that in the past its workers have abused the privilege of praying, by taking too much time away from their desks and their customers.

But the airline's workers as well as Islamist politicians say it is part of a crackdown on their religious freedom.

Praying is one of the five pillars of Islam and regarded as a crucial part of a Muslim's way of life.

The state airline, partly owned by the Moroccan royal family, is a great source of pride and prestige in the country.

But this latest move threatens to exacerbate divisions in Morocco.

Workers say that they have been banned from praying at work and that a number of prayer rooms have been closed and that they are forbidden from going to the mosque during work hours.

The company would not give an interview but issued a statement saying that while there is no official ban on praying, they had to do something to stop people taking lengthy breaks away from work.

But critics say the issue of praying, like the veil, is part of a more sinister move to rob the country of its Islamic roots.

Political

"I feel very angry about this decision," says Moustapha Aramid from the Islamic Party for Justice and Development.

"Moroccans have had their liberty and their religious freedom taken away from them. It is very damaging. Royal Air Morocco obviously has absolutely no respect for Islam."

Analysts say the ban on prayers is really a political move aimed at stamping out radical Islamism.

When an alleged terrorist cell - Ansar el-Mehdi - was broken up earlier this year - two of the suspects charged were the wives of two Royal Air Morocco pilots.

There is a feeling that the company had to do something to respond.

Other complaints from airline staff are that pilots and stewards were not allowed to fast during the month of Ramadan and that female staff are not allowed to wear the veil - although that has been an unwritten rule at many companies for several years.

These issues are becoming a focal point for some very hard questions being asked of this moderate Arabic country - something that is causing serious friction between liberals and traditionalists.

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6120324.stm
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Muezzin
11-06-2006, 11:03 PM
Could you post the source, please?
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al Amaanah
11-06-2006, 11:06 PM
:sl:

Als dit klopt, wat overdreven!

:w:
Reply

Muezzin
11-06-2006, 11:08 PM
...Did you just insult my mother?

:p
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al Amaanah
11-06-2006, 11:14 PM
Lol..I didnt insult any one!
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Skillganon
11-06-2006, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Bintu M
:sl:

Als dit klopt, wat overdreven!

:w:

Neverdrevo taw, tpolk tid sla!
Reply

Muezzin
11-06-2006, 11:45 PM
Okay, seriously please talk in English in the World Affairs forum. There is a separate Dutch forum where you can safely post without making your friendly neighbourhood moderator paranoid. :p :)
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Skillganon
11-06-2006, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Okay, seriously please talk in English in the World Affairs forum. There is a separate Dutch forum where you can safely post without making your friendly neighbourhood moderator paranoid. :p :)
Iam trying to have a conversation with him. :rollseyes

Just don't ask me to translate what I wrote.
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Muezzin
11-06-2006, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Just don't ask me to translate what I wrote.
Dang it, you are insulting my mother! :p

And on-topic, find and post that link up sharpish, ta.
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IzakHalevas
11-07-2006, 02:41 AM
by taking too much time away from their desks and their customers.
That is the key. It obviously must be supervised.
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 02:53 AM
by taking too much time away from their desks and their customers.
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
That is the key. It obviously must be supervised.
I agree. but I don't see how this warrants a ban on Prayers. :?
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GARY
11-07-2006, 03:10 AM
by taking too much time away from their desks and their customers.
A few loafers likely ruined it for everybody. There are always those that will take advantage of a good thing, but they are the first to snivel when that good thing is taken back.
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by GARY
A few loafers likely ruined it for everybody. There are always those that will take advantage of a good thing, but they are the first to snivel when that good thing is taken back.
Or it might be the "few loafers" situation is taken as an excuse to ban prayer's. Can't say if it is anyway connected to the banning of Hijab, as the prayer scenario is more limited (to the airport).
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GARY
11-07-2006, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Or it might be the "few loafers" situation is taken as an excuse to ban prayer's. Can't say if it is anyway connected to the banning of Hijab, as the prayer scenario is more limited (to the airport).
If I was the boss, I wouldn't care if they did it on their breaks. But I would not allow it during time that they should be working.
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by GARY
If I was the boss, I wouldn't care if they did it on their breaks. But I would not allow it during time that they should be working.
I think their might be more to it than the airline boss.

May be the politics.:?
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IzakHalevas
11-07-2006, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
I agree. but I don't see how this warrants a ban on Prayers. :?
It absolutly does not. It is basically irresponsible descion making on the airlines part.
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 03:37 AM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
It absolutly does not. It is basically irresponsible descion making on the airlines part.
Politics. More like international influence imsad
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Bittersteel
11-07-2006, 03:50 AM
I concur Skillganon.Morocco seems to be a bigger loser than my country.
I guess Morocco just made me proud my country,Bangladesh.
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Skillganon
11-07-2006, 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by Emir Aziz
I concur Skillganon.Morocco seems to be a bigger loser than my country.
I guess Morocco just made me proud my country,Bangladesh.
Yes, bangladesh(Syethi) is where I am originaly from.

Hey bro, can you open a thread on the politically situation in bangladesh with all that rioting. I really do not understand that much Bangla news.
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GARY
11-07-2006, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by GARY
If I was the boss, I wouldn't care if they did it on their breaks. But I would not allow it during time that they should be working.
Originally Posted by Skillganon
I think their might be more to it than the airline boss.

May be the politics.:?
At any rate, I still wouldn't allow it during regular pay time.
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north_malaysian
11-07-2006, 07:43 AM
When I was working in a non Muslim firm, I managed to pray Zuhr during lunch hour (1.00 PM till 2.00 PM) and Asr after I finished my work at 5.30 pm.

I only took sandwiches or other 'light' meals during my lunch break, because I have to eat, take ablution, pray and read newspaper during my lunchbreak.
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Umar001
11-07-2006, 07:54 AM
Assalamu Aleykum,

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
When I was working in a non Muslim firm, I managed to pray Zuhr during lunch hour (1.00 PM till 2.00 PM) and Asr after I finished my work at 5.30 pm.

I only took sandwiches or other 'light' meals during my lunch break, because I have to eat, take ablution, pray and read newspaper during my lunchbreak.
Lol at read newspapers.

Anyhow, I dont get why they would ban it all together, let them pray in their breaks or even if it was a problem then they should just put swipe cards or clocking in and out systems so they know who is taking the time out and how long.

Jee.
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north_malaysian
11-07-2006, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Lol at read newspapers.
Just some important news.... of course I have to take more than 1 hour to read the whole paper...:giggling:

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Anyhow, I dont get why they would ban it all together, let them pray in their breaks or even if it was a problem then they should just put swipe cards or clocking in and out systems so they know who is taking the time out and how long.
Good suggestion...
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al Amaanah
11-07-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Okay, seriously please talk in English in the World Affairs forum. There is a separate Dutch forum where you can safely post without making your friendly neighbourhood moderator paranoid. :p :)
Okay..sorry. :rollseyes

"Iam trying to have a conversation with him."

Skillganon im a sister.

:w:
Reply

Skillganon
11-07-2006, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Bintu M
Okay..sorry. :rollseyes

"Iam trying to have a conversation with him."

Skillganon im a sister.

:w:
I would never have guessed :playing:
Sorry sis, imsad
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al Amaanah
11-08-2006, 02:45 PM
lol its okay.

:w:
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Lina
11-09-2006, 06:04 PM
:sl:

Moroccan airline?

THE moroccan airline?

They should first fix their 'airline problems' before they mingle themselves into religious issues.

Staff taking to much time of during prayer time is the least of their worries.


Subhan'Allah.
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united
11-09-2006, 07:02 PM
why cant they schedule a 10 minute break for salaah times?
salaah doesnt take that long and can be prayed in their own offices.
i dont see what the fuss is about.
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GARY
11-11-2006, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by united
why cant they schedule a 10 minute break for salaah times?
salaah doesnt take that long and can be prayed in their own offices.
i dont see what the fuss is about.
As an employer I would agree to a 10 minute non-paid break if it kept employee moral up.
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Sister Hoddan
11-11-2006, 08:58 PM
assalaamu 3alaikum,

To take a café break is ok but prayer is a big no no thing wallaahulmusta3an. I cannot stand the dubble-standard. May Allah sub7anahu wa ta3ala guide us all ameen.
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GARY
11-11-2006, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
assalaamu 3alaikum,

To take a café break is ok but prayer is a big no no thing wallaahulmusta3an. I cannot stand the dubble-standard. May Allah sub7anahu wa ta3ala guide us all ameen.
People can use their coffee break to do what they please, why not use it to pray?
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Sister Hoddan
11-11-2006, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by GARY
People can use their coffee break to do what they please, why not use it to pray?
You see, sometimes, the prayer time happens to not fall on a café break which means one has to go for a few minutes in order to pray. You seem to have no knowledge of how significant the 5 daily prayers are for muslims or do you?

peace
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GARY
11-11-2006, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
You see, sometimes, the prayer time happens to not fall on a café break which means one has to go for a few minutes in order to pray. You seem to have no knowledge of how significant the 5 daily prayers are for muslims or do you?

peace
I had no idea that the prayers had to be done at a specific time. In that case, I restate my earlier post,
As an employer I would agree to a 10 minute non-paid break if it kept employee moral up.
Or, if possible, the scheduled coffee break could be moved to the time needed.
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Sister Hoddan
11-11-2006, 09:30 PM
assalaamu 3alaikum,

Originally Posted by GARY
I had no idea that the prayers had to be done at a specific time. In that case, I restate my earlier post, Or, if possible, the scheduled coffee break could be moved to the time needed.
Hi Gary,

Yes, the prayers fall at a specific time. I`m glad you understand and respect that.

peace
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Muezzin
11-11-2006, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
You see, sometimes, the prayer time happens to not fall on a café break which means one has to go for a few minutes in order to pray. You seem to have no knowledge of how significant the 5 daily prayers are for muslims or do you?

peace
Yeah... but can't you combine Dhur with Asr? And Asr with Maghrib? Or am I mistaken?
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Sister Hoddan
11-11-2006, 10:50 PM
assalaamu 3alaikum,

Originally Posted by Muezzin
Yeah... but can't you combine Dhur with Asr? And Asr with Maghrib? Or am I mistaken?

Why combine when one is capable to pray them on time?

peace
Reply

GARY
11-11-2006, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
assalaamu 3alaikum,




Why combine when one is capable to pray them on time?

peace
Well, you are not capable if it means you will lose your job and therefore your means of providing for yourself and family. In this case, it would be wise to do as Muezzin has suggested, if that is an option(which it does seem to be).
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Muezzin
11-11-2006, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
assalaamu 3alaikum,




Why combine when one is capable to pray them on time?

peace
Not to put too fine a point on it, but sometimes certain people are unable to pray them at their alloted times. I know Dhur and Asr are particularly tricky to pray exactly on time for university students, because of classes which cannot be rescheduled for various reasons.
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GARY
11-11-2006, 11:03 PM
Let us say that as an employer I was lead to believe by my employee that the prayers had to be done at very specific times, and this was not flexible. And so, out of respect for this I allowed some flexibility in the schedule to provide time(clearly at the inconvienience to the business). And then later found out (from someone like Muezzin) that it was actually something that was flexible, I would be angry. Unless it was a very good employee I would likely sack/fire them for this abuse of trust.
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Sister Hoddan
11-12-2006, 07:51 PM

Assalaamu 3alaikum,

Salah (prayer) is a religious duty that has specified times as Allah(God) says: “Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours.” (An-Nisa’: 103)The time of the prayers shouldn´t therefore be violated but this rule is relaxed in certain situations as islam is an easy and practical religion( for example the combining of prayers). However, one should not make it a regular habit. Regarding work, this can easily be handled if one can speaks to his or hers boss in order to explain the situation and I`m sure it can be solved as the prayers do not take much time to perform. We should also know as muslims that this world is finite and being “afraid” of ones “boss” is not a good excuse to neglect ones religious duties. After all, the day of resurrection is approaching and if it is anyone who deserves to be feared it`s surely only Allah sub7anahu wa ta3la and not human beings. And Gary, losing a job is not our first priority. I´m not saying it`s insignificant but what I`m saying is that Islaam takes precedence over everything and anything. And you as an employer should not take it personally when a muslim insists on praying;it is a religious duty nor should you feel that your trust is being misused. I hope that I made myself more understood inshaAllah.
(For further information, it would be wise if you looked in the threads which deal with acts of worship ect.).
peace
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GARY
11-12-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Sister Hoddan
Assalaamu 3alaikum,

Salah (prayer) is a religious duty that has specified times as Allah(God) says: “Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours.” (An-Nisa’: 103)The time of the prayers shouldn´t therefore be violated but this rule is relaxed in certain situations as islam is an easy and practical religion( for example the combining of prayers). However, one should not make it a regular habit. Regarding work, this can easily be handled if one can speaks to his or hers boss in order to explain the situation and I`m sure it can be solved as the prayers do not take much time to perform. We should also know as muslims that this world is finite and being “afraid” of ones “boss” is not a good excuse to neglect ones religious duties. After all, the day of resurrection is approaching and if it is anyone who deserves to be feared it`s surely only Allah sub7anahu wa ta3la and not human beings. And Gary, losing a job is not our first priority. I´m not saying it`s insignificant but what I`m saying is that Islaam takes precedence over everything and anything. And you as an employer should not take it personally when a muslim insists on praying;it is a religious duty nor should you feel that your trust is being misused. I hope that I made myself more understood inshaAllah.
(For further information, it would be wise if you looked in the threads which deal with acts of worship ect.).
peace
I understand. But as an employer, if I found that it was costing me more money to employ this person than it should, then it would become necessary to let them go. Unless they could come up with a way of resolving it that was not hurting my business.
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Sister Hoddan
11-12-2006, 08:14 PM
assalaamu 3alaikum

I understand. But as an employer, if I found that it was costing me more money to employ this person than it should, then it would become necessary to let them go. Unless they could come up with a way of resolving it that was not hurting my business.


Hi Gary,
I`m sure it can be resolved. Muslims have managed to work AND perform their religious practises since Allahs knows when so it´s not a new phenomena. If there`s a will, there`s a will( most of the time).

peace
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Chuck
11-12-2006, 08:33 PM
Something is seriously getting wrong with Morocco, and it is in some cases violating civil rights. Headscarves have been removed from school text books in Morocco. It is going on the former path of Turkey.
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Muezzin
11-12-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Something is seriously getting wrong with Morocco, and it is in some cases violating civil rights. Headscarves have been removed from school text books in Morocco. It is going on the former path of Turkey.
Does the Moroccan government also want in to the EU? That was why Turkey went the way it did.
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Chuck
11-12-2006, 09:24 PM
Does the Moroccan government also want in to the EU? That was why Turkey went the way it did.
No, height of secularism era in Turkey was way before EU. But Morocco is a different case. It is stemming from couple of issues: 1) There is a distrust of govt. among average Moroccans. (2) Rising power of religious leaders which is related to 1st point. (3) Religiousness of average Moroccan is is also on the rise, which is scaring the ruling parties. (4) Moroccan govt. wants to look good to western countries too, but it has more to do with distrust of average Moroccans, so people in the govt. have to secure their power from some sources other than the Moroccan people.
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