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GARY
11-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Will those of you that live in countries that have benefitted from the sacrifice of those that gave their lives, so that you could live the way you do today, take a moment on the eleventh hour of November 11th to respect those that gave their lives?
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glo
11-10-2006, 05:19 PM
I will.
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GARY
11-10-2006, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I will.
As will I. It is important to not forget the sacrifice they made for us.
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
11-10-2006, 07:44 PM
umm, to be honest. i see no point in silences, like i said in the 7/7 thread once, i dont see any point. so you think of them at 11 oclock and u 4get about them 4 the rest of the year? silence dont change nothin, doesnt matter. i kno every1 going 2 disagree, but hey i personally think we can do better than hav "2 mins silence"
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GARY
11-10-2006, 07:58 PM
It's a respect thing. You either appreciate what's been done for you or not. Taking a moment to acknowledge that is a sign of that respect. Being raised with proper morals and respect for others, and being thankful for what we have, this sign of respect should be an obvious given.
It is simply a way of saying "thank you". If someone gives you a glass of water, do you say, "thank you"? Well, these people gave you their lives.
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Fishman
11-10-2006, 08:06 PM
:sl:
I often remember the people who died for us in the second world war. I hate the fascists all the way to the bottom of my heart, and shaytan is one of them anyway. He thinks he's better than us because he was created out of fire rather than clay.

If the allies had not defeated Hitler, he would probably have killed all the Arabs too, they are racially very similar to Jews.

:w:
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whitesoul
11-10-2006, 08:11 PM
but wat bout those who sacrificed around de whole world , wat boout de Prophet(saw) he sacrificed his lyf 4 others,esp de believers in those tyms. so if we 2 show respect 2 ur silence den u shuld show respect 2 our people. our people r dyng out dere in dis cruel world yet no1 seem 2 do anything about it. we are being protrayed as an outkast! so is dat fair if we listen 2 u, den u shuld listen 2 those in need.
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Fishman
11-10-2006, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoul
but wat bout those who sacrificed around de whole world , wat boout de Prophet(saw) he sacrificed his lyf 4 others,esp de believers in those tyms. so if we 2 show respect 2 ur silence den u shuld show respect 2 our people. our people r dyng out dere in dis cruel world yet no1 seem 2 do anything about it. we are being protrayed as an outkast! so is dat fair if we listen 2 u, den u shuld listen 2 those in need.
:sl:
Rememberance day is about all the people who have lost their lives in the name of freedom. It's not just about WWI or WWII, but everybody.

I don't agree with the argument that it is a kuffar celebration. It's nothing to do with Christianity, it is simply a Western invention. We have not exchanged dua for this either, we can still follow the Islamic way of rememberance as well as showing kindness in the same way as the civilisation we live in. Remember when the Prophet (pbuh) stood up out of respect at the funeral of a Jew, and said 'was he not a human being' to his companion?
:w:
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
11-10-2006, 08:22 PM
no, i respect the people who died for this country with gr8 respect.. honestli, but i stil dont c the point of havent 2 minute silence. everyones entitled 2 their own opinions ryt? and dis is mine.
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- Qatada -
11-10-2006, 08:23 PM
What she's trying to say bro is that yes these people did die, but this silence isn't getting us anywhere because this evil still continues. If we're expected to be sad for the people who have sacrificed themselves, what about the one's who are still being tortured right now?


On my opinion, silence won't get us nowhere - but action will. The government likes us being silent, but they hate us speaking out. Yes we should remember the people who have passed away before us, and try to realise that this world is only temporary, and think of the best way to lead a good life to die for the sake of Allaah, but people should also realise that we need to help, we need to work together to help the ones who are still being harmed right now. This silence won't get us nowhere if we don't come together to find a solution to these problems that we are facing today.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoul
but wat bout those who sacrificed around de whole world , wat boout de Prophet(saw) he sacrificed his lyf 4 others,esp de believers in those tyms. so if we 2 show respect 2 ur silence den u shuld show respect 2 our people. our people r dyng out dere in dis cruel world yet no1 seem 2 do anything about it. we are being protrayed as an outkast! so is dat fair if we listen 2 u, den u shuld listen 2 those in need.
You are going to have to speak in english please, I have a hard time understanding internet gibberish.
I think you are making some connection between your prophet and what you call "my" silence. There is no connection here, and it is not "my" silence. It is simply saying thank you to those that gave thier lives for you. Being respectful, it is only proper to say thank you when someone gives you something, they gave their lives.
In your post you have divided this as a "my people - your people" thing. If you live in a country where these men came from, this division does not stand. This is not a 'western thing", or a 'non-muslim thing', it is a 'everybody benefitting in the civilized world today' thing. These men gave their lives for "us". You and me.
I don't know where you live, but if you live in a country where you are benefitting today from their sacrifice, then the least you can do is say "thank you".
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
no, i respect the people who died for this country with gr8 respect.. honestli, but i stil dont c the point of havent 2 minute silence. everyones entitled 2 their own opinions ryt? and dis is mine.
It is simply a way of saying "thank you", nothing more. For lack of a better way, since they are dead, to say thank you with our silence. It is respectful. Is that too much to be asked in exchange for what they gave you?
Of course there is no immediate accomplishment with this action. Does being respectful have to have an immediate pay off?
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whitesoul
11-10-2006, 08:31 PM
sorry for offending you,and do show respect for others. and i say thank you.theres soo much too learn and understand. all i am saying is if we show respect to you so where is our respect in the society now a days, i hope you can support us, as we muslims are going through alot! an i am sorry.
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limitless
11-10-2006, 08:32 PM
:sl:

I think theirs SHOULD BE A MOMENT for muslims who are literally getting killed each and every day and the genocide they had faced. I already had an assembly for this event in my school two days ago; which was not silence, but prayers were said to honour Canadian Soldiers.

:w:
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- Qatada -
11-10-2006, 08:34 PM
I don't want this thread to turn into a big debate or argument, but gary - you've benefited from the muslims, and that includes the Messenger of Allaah - Muhammad (peace be upon him) too :) they sacrificed their lives in many ways to establish what you see in the world today. For instance, if it wasn't for the muslims who settled in spain - you may have been illiterate, medicine would still be old school, there may have not been any street lamps where you live etc. :p


"The subjects covered by the [muslim] texts included medicine, astrology, astronomy pharmacology, psychology, physiology, zoology, biology, botany, mineralogy, optics, chemistry, physics, mathematics, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, music, meteorology, geography, mechanics, hydrostatics, navigation and history." (Burke, 1985, p. 42)
Just check this link to find out how the muslims changed europe totally:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...amic%20history
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whitesoul
11-10-2006, 08:35 PM
that is wat i exactly mean.jazakhallah khair brother. you are so right!
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoul
sorry for offending you,and do show respect for others. and i say thank you.theres soo much too learn and understand. all i am saying is if we show respect to you so where is our respect in the society now a days, i hope you can support us, as we muslims are going through alot! an i am sorry.
I think you are mistaken still. This not about respect for me. It has nothing to do with me. I have done nothing. It also has nothing to do with you or other muslims or other people living today.
It is only about those that have given their lives. Only on this one day. We can show our respect and concern for everybody living today the rest of the 364 days of the year.
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Umar001
11-10-2006, 08:41 PM
Assalamu Aleykum,

I personally do not see a 'thank you' in keeping silence for two minutes, nor do I see a sign on gratidute as such. BUT I think I will do it, for the simple reason that the people I live with would feel annoyed or they would feel as if I have been rude to their forefathers, but I have my own way of thanking and I will insha'Allah continue to reflect and be happy about the sacrafise they gave.

I don't think a minute of silence is a great jesture, but since the public I live with holds it to be a sign of thankfullness, I will if possible take part.
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I don't want this thread to turn into a big debate or argument, but gary - you've benefited from the muslims, and that includes the Messenger of Allaah - Muhammad (peace be upon him) too :) they sacrificed their lives in many ways to establish what you see in the world today. For instance, if it wasn't for the muslims who settled in spain - you may have been illiterate, medicine would still be old school, there may have not been any street lamps where you live etc. :p




Just check this link to find out how the muslims changed europe totally:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...amic%20history

I don't debate that (to some extent), but that has nothing to do with this one day a year. Fine, have a day for muslims, I don't have a problem with that. All I am saying is this one day has been chosen for those that have fallen, let's be a little bit respectful.
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Assalamu Aleykum,

I personally do not see a 'thank you' in keeping silence for two minutes, nor do I see a sign on gratidute as such. BUT I think I will do it, for the simple reason that the people I live with would feel annoyed or they would feel as if I have been rude to their forefathers, but I have my own way of thanking and I will insha'Allah continue to reflect and be happy about the sacrafise they gave.

I don't think a minute of silence is a great jesture, but since the public I live with holds it to be a sign of thankfullness, I will if possible take part.
Which in itself makes it all the more respectful. This is good.
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- Qatada -
11-10-2006, 08:46 PM
All I am saying is this one day has been chosen for those that have fallen, let's be a little bit respectful.

Sure :) insha'Allaah.
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GARY
11-10-2006, 08:55 PM
Does it make any differnce that muslims fought in WW2? Like for example the fact that volunteer muslim soldiers help to liberate France from the germans. I mean, in my mind it should not matter, we should be thankful no matter who fought for us. But does that make any difference to any of you?
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Muhammad
11-10-2006, 08:56 PM
Greetings GARY,

I understand what you are saying about Remembrance Day, and I respect your way of saying thanks to all who have fought in the name of freedom. As Muslims, we perhaps have a different way of remembering those who have passed away before us and perhaps the best of these is praying for and sending peace upon such people. God has taught us to be thankful to people if we are to be thankful to Him, but ultimately the thanks for being able to live in the we live today is due to God, for without His will, nothing can happen. Furthermore, those who have truly worked hard in this world will earn their reward in the hereafter, and we trust that God will pay each soul its due.

While some of us may be living in western countries, it does not mean that we must pay our respects in the same way or to the same people as those living here, yet we respect the practices that occur and acknowledge that each has their own way of and reasons for doing such things. As Muslims, we cling on tightly to the example our Prophet (peace be upon him) has set, so much so that we do not even celebrate his birthday on account of it not being a practice taught by him. I hope you will understand, therefore, why we would not join in something just because it is the practice of those living around us, all the while not disrespecting their reasons for doing so.

I hope this thread will not become like a similar one in the past, where it became a hostile environment instead of a peaceful discussion. If so, it will be closed.

Peace. :)
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GARY
11-10-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
Greetings GARY,
I hope this thread will not become like a similar one in the past, where it became a hostile environment instead of a peaceful discussion. If so, it will be closed.

Peace. :)
I feel the same way.

For many of us that have grown up being taught this respect for Remembrance Day and what it means, and had family that have given their lives, this is an extremely important day. You may not understand this from your perspective, but this respect for what these men gave for us, is as important to many of us, as anything in the muslim religion is to a muslim. Many will fight fiercly against any disrespect toward the men that gave their lives, any monuments for them, and the day set aside for them.
Thanks.
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Umar001
11-10-2006, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by GARY
I feel the same way.

For many of us that have grown up being taught this respect for Remembrance Day and what it means, and had family that have given their lives, this is an extremely important day. You may not understand this from your perspective, but this respect for what these men gave for us, is as important to many of us, as anything in the muslim religion is to a muslim. Many will fight fiercly against any disrespect toward the men that gave their lives, any monuments for them, and the day set aside for them.
Thanks.

Just wondering, would you consider someone talking throught the silence as a sign of direct disrespect to the men that died in the war?
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GARY
11-10-2006, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Just wondering, would you consider someone talking throught the silence as a sign of direct disrespect to the men that died in the war?
In a room full of people being silent? Yes, absolutely. That would be very disrespectful.
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glo
11-10-2006, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by GARY
As will I. It is important to not forget the sacrifice they made for us.
I agree.

I must admit that I used to feel a little awkward about it, when I first came to the UK.
You have to understand that I am German ... so to be reminded of the two world wars ( and consequently Germany's role in those) every year made me feel uncomfortable.

... But we have all gained from the actions of those who fought and overcame the terrors of the world war - especially Hitler's cruel and crazy regime! So I have come to realise that we all owe our respect to those brave people who died for that cause.


peace
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GARY
11-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by glo
So I have come to realise that we all owe our respect to those brave people who died for that cause.

peace
Indeed we do.
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Woodrow
11-10-2006, 10:43 PM
In my view every person who died in order to preserve peace is a soldier. Rememberance of any individual is not important. The important thing is to remember that there have been people who have sacrificed all that we may be here today. If we do stop and pause for 2 minutes of silence, let us use those 2 minutes to think of what we can do to see that our soldiers of peace, have not died in vain.
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glo
11-11-2006, 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
In my view every person who died in order to preserve peace is a soldier. Rememberance of any individual is not important. The important thing is to remember that there have been people who have sacrificed all that we may be here today. If we do stop and pause for 2 minutes of silence, let us use those 2 minutes to think of what we can do to see that our soldiers of peace, have not died in vain.
Amen to that, Woodrow!

Peace
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GARY
11-11-2006, 03:08 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
In my view every person who died in order to preserve peace is a soldier. Rememberance of any individual is not important. The important thing is to remember that there have been people who have sacrificed all that we may be here today. If we do stop and pause for 2 minutes of silence, let us use those 2 minutes to think of what we can do to see that our soldiers of peace, have not died in vain.
Could not have said it better. That, I believe, is exactly what we are supposed to do.
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
11-11-2006, 03:44 PM
Please talk 4 urself :) ^
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S_87
11-11-2006, 03:48 PM
:sl:

i did. i was sleeping :hiding:

my parents were out thoguh and they did
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GARY
11-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
Please talk 4 urself :) ^
Very disrespectful and rude. Perhaps you should be living somewhere like North Korea where the benefits have not been realized. If you don't appreciate that people gave their lives for you, if you are that much of an unappreciative, unthankful spoiled little girl, then perhaps you don't deserve to live in a benefitting nation. You are an undeserving taker, a person that takes but gives nothing back. I find such an indifferent and unappreciative attitude toward those that gave us all, to be loathsome.
When a person does not appreciate what they have been given, they should be made to earn it for themself. If a person does not appreciate what was done, fine, they should be sent into exile, or made to fight for the country to earn what they don't appreciate.
To the mods that will no doubt issue a warning to me for what I have said, remember one thing. You expect people to respect everyone and what they believe in. This rude young girl has set out to purposely antagonize another that feels strongly about the things they believe in.
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-11-2006, 05:36 PM
how bout on this date instead of being silent we actually show that we care, heres the key, "IN A SINCERE WAY",

by doing something about it..... how can we help further their cause, thats what we should be thinking, this is the better form of respect !
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GARY
11-11-2006, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
how bout on this date instead of being silent we actually show that we care, heres the key, "IN A SINCERE WAY",

by doing something about it..... how can we help further their cause, thats what we should be thinking, this is the better form of respect !
I think your idea is a good one.

It is good whatever you do, if it is out of respect and not a show of indifference.
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