'Religion of Peace' and Civil War in Iraq

[fredbear]

Why is it that Muslims are fighting each other and not joined together to get the invaders out of Iraq?

Religion of Peace? or Religion of War and Vengeance?

Why is it that Islam always has had bloody borders?

BAGHDAD,
Iraq — ...Mortars are quickly becoming the weapon of choice as Sunnis and Shiites fight it out in Baghdad. Having mortar rounds fall like rain is now a daily occurrence in some parts of the Iraqi capital.

Throughout Baghdad and in towns and villages within a 50-mile radius, whole populations have shifted as Shiite and Sunni flee violence from death squads and suicide bombers to the safety of places where their Islamic sect is the majority.

But as this physical separation between Sunni and Shiite grows, the mortars cut that gap, allowing sectarian fighters to fire into a district from a distance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/...raq_mortar_war

[Woodrow]

All I can say is that the only way a person can understand, is to have lived in a war zone. During times of upheaval there is very much confusion. It becomes difficult to recognise who is friend and who is foe.

This is not a confrontation of ideologies it is a battle of survival. War and poverty brings out the best and the worse in people. It is very easy to see everybody as being a potential enemy. Comunication becomes disrupted. Lies become viewed as truth and truth gets distorted to seem to be lies.

we can not condemn anything until we have lived in the situation. We can not understand until we know what forces are driving each person.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you fredbear;

Why is it that Islam always has had bloody borders?

I think you could write that statement again and ask why does mankind always seem to have bloody borders.

Probably the majority of Iraqi people have lost a family member, friend or acquaintance, or know someone who has lost their home or livelihood due to this war. How does that person seek justice, do they go down to the local police station and report a murder.

Probably the majority of people will not feel as if justice has been done to put some kind of closure on a grave injustice.

Sadly the way justice is served most often is by killing members of the opposition. This has very little to do with any religion it is in human nature to seek justice.

Sadly I believe the British and American forces invaded Iraq without a just cause, they have bungled the peace, probably leaving Iraq in a worse situation than it was in before the invasion.

In the spirit of seeking justice and peace

Eric

[Joe98]

Woodrow, you have completely turned around.

Previously, you said that Saddam, kept the 2 sides from fighting. Which means you agreed with the original post at the top.

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[afriend]

I think you could write that statement again and ask why does mankind always seem to have bloody borders.

Very well said. Throughout the ages, people of the same religions have fought eachother, only due to sectarian issues.

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, you have completely turned around.

Previously, you said that Saddam, kept the 2 sides from fighting. Which means you agreed with the original post at the top.

I may be wrong, but I do not recall ever saying that. If you can find a post I said that in Please post a link to it.

[Dahir]

You have to look at the situation from an individual stand-point. Islam is a religion of peace because that's how our rules are laid out, but not everyone follows all the rules.

Like Eric said, its a human problem, not an ideological problem. By your own admittion, you're saying that Islam is a religion of war -- where in the Quran does it say 'war constantly'?

Unless you go around Iraq interviewing its nearly 30 million citizens, no one will ever know...

[north_malaysian]

Muslims and ISlam are two different things.

[Bittersteel]

go to the refutations section.He's talking about the killing the infidels thing.

[Islamicboy]

Saddam use to kill shias and sunnis didnt do anything. Now saddam is gone shia are in power and they are getting revenege. Sunnis see that as a attack on them they go back and kill and it goes round and round. Saddam killed shia because iraq and iran war. << There thats why they are killing each other.

Saddam was secular he had no connections to religion as i seen his statues which are haram. he thought of himself more then a human as far as i see. Astagfurillah

He was a dictator sunnis couldnt even rise up agiasnt him either or they be killed too. Al Qaeda always wanted to take saddam out they hated saddam.

[north_malaysian]

Saddam use to kill shias and sunnis didnt do anything.

I've heard that Saddam killed Sunni Islamists ... plus Kurds are Sunnis too..

[Joe98]

I've heard that Saddam killed Sunni Islamists ... plus Kurds are Sunnis too..

Yes, everybody in the world heard that.

I am constantly astonished that people around he world did not hold demonstrations outside the Iraqi embassies.

And yet when Bush said he wanted to give Iraqi people freedom there were many demonstrations against that idea.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Joe98;

In order for Bush to depose Saddam, thousands of Iraqis were killed in the process.
To me that does not seem a just way to put things right, it has created further injustice, and thousands more will probably die before any peace can be achieved.

In the spirit of seeking a just peace

Eric

[Jameel]

Saddam did not rule by what allah reveled, and we all know, that whoever does not rule by allah has reveled, such are the kafiroon....

[Trumble]

Why is it that Muslims are fighting each other and not joined together to get the invaders out of Iraq?

Because, despite the extremists' spin, they all know perfectly well that the "invaders" are no such thing, just want to get the heck out as soon as it is politically acceptable and are not a long-term threat.

In the meantime, assorted ethnic and political interest groups are quite happy to use violence to further their own agendas in the sure knowledge far too many people will assume they are all 'heroic' insurgents and Jihaadists, and that assorted acts such as placing bombs in crowded markets is somehow aimed at the Americans rather than other Iraqis. Quite how is never made clear.

[Rou]

Why is it that Muslims are fighting each other and not joined together to get the invaders out of Iraq?

Religion of Peace? or Religion of War and Vengeance?

Why is it that Islam always has had bloody borders?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/...raq_mortar_war

lol islam has had a bloody border? blacks slaves,indian slaves,native american genocide,vietnam....should i go on?

lets see how many islamic countries have made people suffer and how many western countries have made people suffer i guarntee western countries have done far worse...

"why does islam have such bloody borders?"

dunno guess the crusades were planned by the muslims hey?

when it stated in the quran that there would be hypocrits all i can say is i had no idea it would be this bad!?

i mean how many have others met!?? its amazing the power of blindness...:heated:

[Keltoi]

lol islam has had a bloody border? blacks slaves,indian slaves,native american genocide,vietnam....should i go on?

lets see how many islamic countries have made people suffer and how many western countries have made people suffer i guarntee western countries have done far worse...

"why does islam have such bloody borders?"

dunno guess the crusades were planned by the muslims hey?

when it stated in the quran that there would be hypocrits all i can say is i had no idea it would be this bad!?

i mean how many have others met!?? its amazing the power of blindness...:heated:

What "crusades" are you referring to? Also, the point is not what Muslim countries have done historically, it is about the present day. The chaos can't be pinned all on the U.S., as convenient as that might sound to many. The Middle East is a bloodbath and has been for quite some time.

[Rou]

What "crusades" are you referring to? Also, the point is not what Muslim countries have done historically, it is about the present day. The chaos can't be pinned all on the U.S., as convenient as that might sound to many. The Middle East is a bloodbath and has been for quite some time.

yes yes its a bloodbath and its beacuse muslims just start fighting eachother hey!?

what crusade? pick one...

how many times keltoi!? your in such denial that its sick did you hear the part about hypocrits?

the first post was about how islams borders and how bloody they are?

what the heck!?

as i stated the borders of western lands are bloody with the blood of others so its hilarious when fingers are pointed at islam!?

media is a wonderful thing...

oh will you wake up?? its all about protecting the USA with you!??

if a US soilders does anything "oh no that didnt happen"

if it was a us soilder torturing someone it never happend???

dude will you pls wake up!

but you wont know why cos you and many in the west THINK they know what they are on about but the lack of logic in your debates and the blatent ignorance of what you and the west have done to so many innocents genocide,rape,economic control to this day!!

and then you have the audacity of wasting time by talking of blood on our borders!?? hey!??

once you in the west have raped and killed and stolen all you can and set up your economics in favour for yourselves then you start talking of blood that is being spilt and why its being spilt!????

whatever hypocrits!

how many times has it been explained yet you only ignore!??

pathetic...

yeah yeah blood on our borders oh those muslims how messed up they are whatever...

your in the middle east and your killing innocent left right and centre and you happily blame muslim insurgents for the deaths of there own yeah yeah in afgan and palastine and iraq muslims just went nuts and started killing eachother!!

dream kid keep dreaming...yeah US soilders dont torture they dont beat they dont rape they dont use electrical torture....

do me a favour keltoi instead of chatting rubbish and wasting all our time as usual get your head out the sand and go do some research!

cos i tell you straight boy im sick of explaining to you and people like you!

denial and ignorance how messed up are you...

[GARY]

Perhaps instead of slinging insults when you are losing an argument, you could take a deep breath and try making a valid point. Insults are a clear sign that you are nearing the end of your ability in debate.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Maybe u should quit it Gary, you have too much on your mind. Its only invalid when it doesnt fit a persons mindset, like yours. This is like the third thread you've said this. Broken record? Yeap.
Your not any less of giving insults.

[GARY]

Maybe u should quit it Gary, you have too much on your mind. Its only invalid when it doesnt fit a persons mindset, like yours. This is like the third thread you've said this. Broken record? Yeap.

Seems i have a stalker in you LOL (joke)! Anyway, you think it wrong for me to discourage others from insulting people on the forum? Why would that be?

[Rou]

Perhaps instead of slinging insults when you are losing an argument, you could take a deep breath and try making a valid point. Insults are a clear sign that you are nearing the end of your ability in debate.

lol i was wating for you gary...perhaps you should learn to read hey? if you did read you would realise that there for one there is no argument ony facts and the facts are clearly stated it is your denial and keltois childish denial to accept any facts about what the west has done in the past that is being acted upon here...

as usual you to will continue in denial!? "oh if your losing an argument blah blah"

dude wake the hell up there is no one in the world who can lose an argument when stating that the west more than anyone else has made innocents suffer unanswered and is the biggest hypocrit to exist on earth yet you still blab!??

what a joke in what ignorance do you and people like you delve to accept such ignorance??

the thread talks of blood on borders of islam know why thats angering me?? cos the west spills blood like animals and then some child starts a thread on islam and blood on its borders!???

and what do the hypocrits do? as usual try and stick up for it blindly?!? do you have no morals!? wether to the suffering in the past or today?? a dumb question i sguess your posts prove your morals...

gary grow up..what a joke...

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Its only right to discourage someone when u haven't done it yourself. Fix yourself, then point at others. Start in, then out.
Now im done going off topic, before Muezzin or someone gets angry..
Peace

[Rou]

Seems i have a stalker in you LOL (joke)! Anyway, you think it wrong for me to discourage others from insulting people on the forum? Why would that be?

oh gary will you grow up your little sarcastic rubbish is getting old serious..

yeah yeah you came here to help and you were but trying to contain the situation JUST like in every thread yeah whatever....

now wallow in your ignorance both of you however im sick of your ignorant useless conversation...

[Keltoi]

lol i was wating for you gary...perhaps you should learn to read hey? if you did read you would realise that there for one there is no argument ony facts and the facts are clearly stated it is your denial and keltois childish denial to accept any facts about what the west has done in the past that is being acted upon here...

as usual you to will continue in denial!? "oh if your losing an argument blah blah"

dude wake the hell up there is no one in the world who can lose an argument when stating that the west more than anyone else has made innocents suffer unanswered and is the biggest hypocrit to exist on earth yet you still blab!??

what a joke in what ignorance do you and people like you delve to accept such ignorance??

the thread talks of blood on borders of islam know why thats angering me?? cos the west spills blood like animals and then some child starts a thread on islam and blood on its borders!???

and what do the hypocrits do? as usual try and stick up for it blindly?!? do you have no morals!? wether to the suffering in the past or today?? a dumb question i sguess your posts prove your morals...

gary grow up..what a joke...

This thread is about the conflict in many Muslim lands, primarily the Middle East. Instead of talking about Crusades that occurred in 1098, I think the point is to look at the political landscape of the Middle East and look for answers that don't involve passing the blame. Of course Western countries have their faults and their role to play in this situation, but there is a more regional dynamic that can't be explained by Western "imperialism". Whether it be religious, political, or a combination of both, there is a problem with conflict in the Middle East that goes far beyond anything the U.S. or its allies have contributed to the problem.

[Keltoi]

oh gary will you grow up your little sarcastic rubbish is getting old serious..

yeah yeah you came here to help and you were but trying to contain the situation JUST like in every thread yeah whatever....

now wallow in your ignorance both of you however im sick of your ignorant useless conversation...

Then don't respond. Posting your insulting rubbish doesn't add anything to the conversation. Either post something in the way of constructive criticism of posts or simply ignore what you don't want to respond to.

[GARY]

lol i was wating for you gary...perhaps you should learn to read hey? if you did read you would realise that there for one there is no argument ony facts and the facts are clearly stated it is your denial and keltois childish denial to accept any facts about what the west has done in the past that is being acted upon here...

as usual you to will continue in denial!? "oh if your losing an argument blah blah"

dude wake the hell up there is no one in the world who can lose an argument when stating that the west more than anyone else has made innocents suffer unanswered and is the biggest hypocrit to exist on earth yet you still blab!??

what a joke in what ignorance do you and people like you delve to accept such ignorance??

the thread talks of blood on borders of islam know why thats angering me?? cos the west spills blood like animals and then some child starts a thread on islam and blood on its borders!???

and what do the hypocrits do? as usual try and stick up for it blindly?!? do you have no morals!? wether to the suffering in the past or today?? a dumb question i sguess your posts prove your morals...

gary grow up..what a joke...

Ignorance? I have not taken part in this discussion. For all you know I might agree with you, or not.

Its only right to discourage someone when u haven't done it yourself. Fix yourself, then point at others. Start in, then out.
Now im done going off topic, before Muezzin or someone gets angry..
Peace

Please point out my history of name calling and insults please.

oh gary will you grow up your little sarcastic rubbish is getting old serious..

yeah yeah you came here to help and you were but trying to contain the situation JUST like in every thread yeah whatever....

now wallow in your ignorance both of you however im sick of your ignorant useless conversation...

Perhaps being nice would be a pleasant change Rou. How about it? Just because you feel a debate slipping away, doesn't mean you need to resort to insults. Being civil is much more pleasant.

[IzakHalevas]

There were wars way before Islam... But the notion that Muslims are any less violent or peaceful than anyother people is obsurd.

[Rou]

This thread is about the conflict in many Muslim lands, primarily the Middle East. Instead of talking about Crusades that occurred in 1098, I think the point is to look at the political landscape of the Middle East and look for answers that don't involve passing the blame. Of course Western countries have their faults and their role to play in this situation, but there is a more regional dynamic that can't be explained by Western "imperialism". Whether it be religious, political, or a combination of both, there is a problem with conflict in the Middle East that goes far beyond anything the U.S. or its allies have contributed to the problem.

Tell me keltoi why should we look at the middle easts politcal landscape i tell you what lets look at the wests landscape and how the USA has had a history of war since it was created lets look at the fact thatthe USA was the first to use an atomic bomba nd has weapons of mass destructions yet in a hypocritcal stance expects no other countries to have them?

lets look at the fact that the USA and UK made more slaves out of africans ,native americans chinese and indians more than any recent country in the world!?

lets look at the fact that they used genocidal tactics against many races even in vietnam!? lets look at the fact that till this daythey treat the native americans as outsiders on there own lands!??

lets look at the fact that USA and UK caused the terrorist outbreak that the world see's today!?

they have increased terrorist poppulation tenfold if not more!?

how about the fact that the UN that is there to keep peace for all of us was ignored and the war on iraq was forced upon false pretense of weapons of mass destruction that never existed!?? yet they exist in the USA???

what about the fact that USA has unleashed hell in iraq and afgan and used false reasons to displace and harm so many innocents on the basis that the whole world can see is quite clearly finance based..yet what will i hear blah blah denial!!

does it look as if i really care for your denial!?? there are so many westerners in denial and!???

it will make no diffrence those innocents have still suffered and they continue to suffer and what will you do!?? you wont use your morals to see the fact that religon is being forced out your lands and santa is taking jesus's place or that your president is killing innocents in there own land and infuriating them to react back only so that he has a reason to set up more bases and gain more foot holds in the most oil richest land in the world no!!

you will instead use your ignorant misplaced logic to protect killers and rapists!???

THEN! you will bother actully bother to talk of islam and its borders!???

what a joke!

sort yourselves your lands and your people out and then only then!!

dare to talk of my religon and its borders!

[abdur_Rahmaan]

Why is it that Muslims are fighting each other and not joined together to get the invaders out of Iraq?

Religion of Peace? or Religion of War and Vengeance?

Why is it that Islam always has had bloody borders?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/...raq_mortar_war

To you, fred.

You have a home, someone enters it and starts making their own government, overriding your rules and regulations. You like to keep the toilet seat down: s/he leaves it up. You like to put the garbage-can outside: s/he keeps putting it back in the house. You clean your bathroom every day: s/he messes it up every day, after you've cleaned it.

Now tell me, what would you do? Sit back, watch as this individual devours your area of residence, or are you to act and speak out? Hmm... can't call the kettle black, if you've never seen what one looks like; got to put your feet into someone's shoes, metaphorically speaking.

Now, let's look at America. The foreigners come here, army fatigued, camouflaged down, patrolling the streets with warthogs (cars with automatic guns); shooting at "opposing forces (Americans—who do not want foreigners on their turf)"; acting tough as they bring democracy to your land. Hmm... ever try role playing?

The Help of Allaah is sought.

[GARY]

Rou, You need to relax.

[Rou]

Then don't respond. Posting your insulting rubbish doesn't add anything to the conversation. Either post something in the way of constructive criticism of posts or simply ignore what you don't want to respond to.

Indeed i do ignore keltoi i ignore alot but as i stated theres a limit to ignorance how one can continue such ilogical behaviour is beyond me!??

why should one ignore ignorance?? how about you and people like you wake up to the fact that you seem to set aside the feelings of everyone else and instead post lies to cover what your country and its armies have done hell you dont even take responsbility for what has been proven!!???

how does that make sense how about you stop posting denial and stick to the facts?!?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ahhh, everyone chill or one of the Mods will get fiesty =\

[Keltoi]

Tell me keltoi why should we look at the middle easts politcal landscape i tell you what lets look at the wests landscape and how the USA has had a history of war since it was created lets look at the fact thatthe USA was the first to use an atomic bomba nd has weapons of mass destructions yet in a hypocritcal stance expects no other countries to have them?

lets look at the fact that the USA and UK made more slaves out of africans ,native americans chinese and indians more than any recent country in the world!?

lets look at the fact that they used genocidal tactics against many races even in vietnam!? lets look at the fact that till this daythey treat the native americans as outsiders on there own lands!??

lets look at the fact that USA and UK caused the terrorist outbreak that the world see's today!?

they have increased terrorist poppulation tenfold if not more!?

how about the fact that the UN that is there to keep peace for all of us was ignored and the war on iraq was forced upon false pretense of weapons of mass destruction that never existed!?? yet they exist in the USA???

what about the fact that USA has unleashed hell in iraq and afgan and used false reasons to displace and harm so many innocents on the basis that the whole world can see is quite clearly finance based..yet what will i hear blah blah denial!!

does it look as if i really care for your denial!?? there are so many westerners in denial and!???

it will make no diffrence those innocents have still suffered and they continue to suffer and what will you do!?? you wont use your morals to see the fact that religon is being forced out your lands and santa is taking jesus's place or that your president is killing innocents in there own land and infuriating them to react back only so that he has a reason to set up more bases and gain more foot holds in the most oil richest land in the world no!!

you will instead use your ignorant misplaced logic to protect killers and rapists!???

THEN! you will bother actully bother to talk of islam and its borders!???

what a joke!

sort yourselves your lands and your people out and then only then!!

dare to talk of my religon and its borders!

Firstly, does the fact that the U.S. has a bloody past negate anything that is going on in the Middle East? I don't see that it does. As for your claims in regards to U.S. history. Yes, the U.S. allowed slavery...as did many countries in the region we are attempting to discuss, so let us not get too "holier than thou". We are talking about 2006 and the current problems facing the world as it moves forward. The Middle East has become a major source of conflict in recent history, and regardless of what other countries have done in the past it doesn't change that basic reality. Perhaps if we could discuss this situation without resorting to insult and the blame game, we could have a fairly interesting conversation.

By the way, I am Native American and I'm not treated like an outsider. I love my country, as flawed as its past may be.

[Rou]

Ignorance? I have not taken part in this discussion. For all you know I might agree with you, or not.



Please point out my history of name calling and insults please.





Perhaps being nice would be a pleasant change Rou. How about it? Just because you feel a debate slipping away, doesn't mean you need to resort to insults. Being civil is much more pleasant.

lol gary comn now you state such sarcastic remarks and then state to be cival lol "oh no one noticed that underlying little poke there duh!?"

debate slipping away ohhh that wasnt to make me mad now was it gary!??

no no you were giving constructive criticism !??

whatever mate ive seen you insult enough times but unlike lions you act like rats who bite and runaway insulting on the sly!

where is your answer to what i have stated!?? otherwise i have no wish to listen to your pathetic attempt at winding me up!? it but shows your take on life and mate its seems to be quite pathetic...

[Rou]

Firstly, does the fact that the U.S. has a bloody past negate anything that is going on in the Middle East? I don't see that it does. As for your claims in regards to U.S. history. Yes, the U.S. allowed slavery...as did many countries in the region we are attempting to discuss, so let us not get too "holier than thou". We are talking about 2006 and the current problems facing the world as it moves forward. The Middle East has become a major source of conflict in recent history, and regardless of what other countries have done in the past it doesn't change that basic reality. Perhaps if we could discuss this situation without resorting to insult and the blame game, we could have a fairly interesting conversation.

By the way, I am Native American and I'm not treated like an outsider. I love my country, as flawed as its past may be.

you love your cooountry thats nice let me know when they give the black hills back at least and answer for the blood of so many innocents tribes that they wiped out and i will then accept that native americans are not treated like outsiders!?

you are one man you do not represent the other native americans who never for one moment forget what was done to there people and there land...

oh how ilogic prevails when you state you are not treated as an outsider!?

wheres your land how much of it do your people control where is your honour or your peoples honour!?

accept what you will you are not every native american!

and you ask why i post!?? hello i just told you that those in the west should not point fingers when they have oh so much to answer for already!

you love your country and??? where are your morals your country is not your country if it is against what you beleive and im sure you dont agree with rape,genocide,unprovoked attackskillings of innocents or rubbish excuses to whay all these things have been done!!???

and if you do then have a good look in a mirror for what they done to your people they do again to mine in your name!

[Keltoi]

you love your cooountry thats nice let me know when they give the black hills back at least and answer for the blood of so many innocents tribes that they wiped out and i will then accept that native americans are not treated like outsiders!?

you are one man you do not represent the other native americans who never for one moment forget what was done to there people and there land...

oh how ilogic prevails when you state you are not treated as an outsider!?

wheres your land how much of it do your people control where is your honour or your peoples honour!?

accept what you will you are not every native american!

and you ask why i post!?? hello i just told you that those in the west should not point fingers when they have oh so much to answer for already!

The Black Hills "Paha Sapa" are claimed by the Lakota, before they were claimed by the Kiowa and Shahiyena. Now it is a national park for the most part available to everyone. As for speaking for all Native Americans, no I don't do that, but you seem to think Natives have been sitting around whining for 300 years, and they haven't. Life moves on. Wrongs were done by the U.S. government and we will never forget that, but this isn't the same country it was in 1876. As a percentage of the population, more Native Americans join the U.S. military than any other ethnicity, and most are very patriotic and involved in their communities. Now, can we return to the topic at hand?

[GARY]

lol gary comn now you state such sarcastic remarks and then state to be cival lol "oh no one noticed that underlying little poke there duh!?"

debate slipping away ohhh that wasnt to make me mad now was it gary!??

no no you were giving constructive criticism !??

whatever mate ive seen you insult enough times but unlike lions you act like rats who bite and runaway insulting on the sly!

where is your answer to what i have stated!?? otherwise i have no wish to listen to your pathetic attempt at winding me up!? it but shows your take on life and mate its seems to be quite pathetic...

Actually Rou, it was a valid point. Every time you are in debate, as long as it is going well for you, you keep it almost civil. It is when someone like Keltoi is actually making points in a debate that you don't like and can't refute adequately, that you turn to the insults out of desperation. Perhaps if you have some self-control you can think more clearly?

Yes, I was giving constructive criticism.

Rat? LOL! This I would consider insulting if it came from somebody worthy of respect. You have shown that you are not with this kind of talk. If you want to compare to animals, then I would certainly compare you to hyenas. Nipping at a lions heels till the lion turns, and then scurrying off. I would prefer to not go this route of insults, so I will leave this as my only moment of sinking to your pathetic level.

[AbdulHassanAmir]

The middle east has a bloody history whats your point keltoi?

"there is a problem with conflict in the Middle East that goes far beyond anything the U.S. or its allies have contributed to the problem." Britian created the state of Israel, and Israel, a US ally have been involved one way or another in basically almost every single modern war in the middle east. The US was also the cause of the 2003 war in Iraq.

[GARY]

The middle east has a bloody history whats your point keltoi?

"there is a problem with conflict in the Middle East that goes far beyond anything the U.S. or its allies have contributed to the problem." Britian created the state of Israel, and Israel, a US ally have been involved one way or another in basically almost every single modern war in the middle east. The US was also the cause of the 2003 war in Iraq.

It is true that Israel has been involved in many of the regions wars, but as a result of being attacked. They defend themselves of course.

(Uh, hey Abdul. You know that drawing is a drawing of Muhammud right?)

[Woodrow]

Like I have said many times before, once a thread breaks down into personal arguements, it has gone past it's value.


:threadclo