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Free
11-12-2006, 09:54 PM
Can someone tell me where to post a question? I want to ask about the Muslim view of Jesus. :)

Thanks!

"Free"
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Umar001
11-12-2006, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Can someone tell me where to post a question? I want to ask about the Muslim view of Jesus. :)

Thanks!

"Free"
Hi,

And welcome, I hope to see alot of you, inshaAllah, God willing,

You can ask http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/ or http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/

though I'd ask in the first link.

And what in particular would you like to know about Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and his mother?
Reply

DigitalStorm82
11-12-2006, 10:58 PM
You can also ask in Comparative Religion section...

Also read...

Question:
What do Muslims believe about Jesus (peace be upon him)?

Answer:
Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him) , and await his second coming. They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as `Jesus', but always adds the phrase "peace be upon him." The Qur’aan confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Qur’aan is entitled `Mary') in her time, and Mary is considered the purest woman in all creation. The Qur’aan describes the creation of Jesus as follows (interpretation of the meaning): "Behold! the Angel said, `God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. O Mary, God gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and the Hereafter, and one that shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and shall be of the righteous.' She said: `O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?' He said: `Even so; God creates what He wills. When He decrees a thing, He but says to it, "Be!" and it is." (Qur’aan, Surat (chapter) Aala ‘Imraan, 3:42-7) Jesus (peace be upon him) was born miraculously through the same power which had brought Adam (peace be upon him) into being without a father: "Truly, the likeness of Jesus unto Allaah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, `Be!' and he was." (3:59) During his prophetic mission, Jesus (peace be upon him) was granted and performed many miracles. The Qur’aan tells us that he said (interpretation of meaning): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by Allaah’s leave. And I heal the blind and the lepers, and I raise the dead by Allaah’s leave." (3:49) Other miracles include speaking soon after birth in defense of his mother's piety. God's other gifts to him included healing the blind and the sick, reviving the dead, and, most importantly, the message he was carrying. These miracles were granted to him by God to establish him as a prophet. According to the Qur’aan, he was not crucified, but only appeared so; instead, Allaah raised him unto Heaven. (Quraan, Chapter Maryam) Neither Muhammad (peace be upon him), nor Jesus (peace be upon him), came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but to confirm and renew it. In the Quran Jesus (peace be upon him), is reported as saying that he came: " To attest the law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign form your Lord, so fear God and obey me." (3:50)

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
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Umar001
11-13-2006, 12:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
No they don't.
I do, I named myself after him, I pray to see him, I pray to be his friend and that he likes me, I also pray he marries my daughters, now, for me to do all that I still don't respect nor love him??


format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
If I compare a Muslim to Jesus the Muslim is offended.
If you compare me, a muslim, to jesus, peace be upon him, the only way I'd be offended might be because Jesus peace be upon him, is so much better than me that I cannot be compared to a man so much better.

But if someone said to me, "man you remind me of Jesus" I'd love that!

And am a Muslim :happy: :happy:
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- Qatada -
11-13-2006, 01:13 PM
Hi Free :)


Try checking these links insha'Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...Jesus+in+Islam

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...Jesus+in+Islam

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...st.html?=Jesus

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...ighlight=Jesus



You can also download this audio called The Last Supper and also Yusuf Estes to get a better understanding insha'Allaah (God willing.) :)




Peace.
Reply

Muhammad
11-13-2006, 03:58 PM
Greetings Free,

Welcome to the forum :).

Questions about Islam can be asked in the 'Discover Islam' section. Threads in the Comparative Religion section tend to be more discussion-based; since you have asked for the Islamic perspective, I have moved the thread here. One thing to note is that threads need to be approved before they can be posted in this section of the forum, so they may not appear immediately after posting.

Peace, and I hope you have a beneficial stay here :).
Reply

Abu Ibraheem
11-13-2006, 05:50 PM
Yep Free i am surely intrested in discussing
Reply

LUVAR
11-13-2006, 06:06 PM
welcom to the forum:)
Reply

Snowflake
11-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Hi Free,

I love Jesus (pbuh). And hope I'm around to meet him when he returns. Yes muslims too believe in the second coming.
Reply

Free
11-14-2006, 03:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Hi,

And welcome, I hope to see alot of you, inshaAllah, God willing,

You can ask http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/ or http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/

though I'd ask in the first link.

And what in particular would you like to know about Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and his mother?
Why did you mention his mother?
Reply

Free
11-14-2006, 04:01 AM
Thanks.

Here is my question. I just started studying Islam and learned that Muslims actually believe that Jesus was a prophet. I was very surprised to discover this. My question is, if Muslims claim that Jesus was a prophet, what do they believe about the text in the Bible where he equates himself with God?

Someone on another forum quoted quite a bit of the book of John to argue against the diety of Jesus but I could find many verses in the same book that clearly show Jesus believed he was equal to God. How do you address this issue?

From my perspective, you can't claim that Jesus was a prophet because of his own testimony of himself. Even if there are verses in the book of John that could be used to prove he isn't God, there are equally the same number of verses where he states he is. That would make him a false prophet. Can someone please explain to me what Muslims do with the rest of the book of John?

Here are some quotes for reference:

"WHEN HE LOOKS AT ME, HE SEES THE ONE WHO SENT ME" JOHN 12:45

"I DID NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE IT." JOHN 12:47

"ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER." JOHN 14:9

"BELIEVE IN ME WHEN I SAY THAT I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME." JOHN 14:11

"THOUGH YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, I KNOW HIM (THE FATHER). IF I SAID I DID NOT, I WOULD BE A LIAR LIKE YOU. ABRAHAM REJOICED AT THE THOUGHT OF SEEING MY DAY. HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM." JOHN 8:54-59 -- THEY WANTED TO STONE HIM. WHY? BECAUSE IN CALLING HIMSELF "I AM", HE WAS EQUATING HIMSELF TO GOD.

"YOU STUDY THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK BY THEM YOU POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. THEY TESTIFY ABOUT ME YET YOU REFUSE TO COME TO ME." (V39-40)

HE LAID DOWN HIS DIETY ONLY TO PICK IT UP AGAIN. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8

Thanks for any feedback.

Free
Reply

Woodrow
11-14-2006, 02:08 PM
This is one of the most difficult things a Non-Muslim has trouble understanding. Quite often when referencing proof of their beliefs they will quote the Bible.

Many non-Muslims fail to understand that we can not accept Bible quotes as proof, because the Bible has been altered and is no longer the Truth that Isa(Jesus)(as) taught.

We do agree that there may still be some truth in the Bible, but we have no way of knowing which are true and which have been changed. Some things refered to in the Bible are also found in the Qur'an. Those we can assume have had minimal change. But, there are many more things said that are not verified.

The words of Isa(as) were the words of Allah(swt), sadly His words have been altered and deleted leaving the Bible filled with much error.
Reply

Umar001
11-14-2006, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Why did you mention his mother?
Because in Islaam,we have hold Jesus' mother to be very amazing, she is one of the women chosen above mankind, and a woman prefered by G-d and chosen for the miracle of Jesus' birth, in the Qu'ran we are told to reflect/remember the story of Mary, Maryam,

Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

To remember this, and when she screened herself away from others, and G-d sent an angel to her, and because of her piety she said:

"I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

That she didn't flirt or play around but remembered G-d, and imagine the fear that she had.

Also that

the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"

The pain and fear and wishing of death from her, yet she remained in service to G-d. And to remember what must have been going through her mind, the fact that she was going to bring Jesus, a baby back to her people, her chastidy would be questioned, what would she say and do?

She was instructed:

And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"

And so she returned and people questioned her and thought bad of her, saying things like,

They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

and

Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

But she obeyed G-d and pointed to the baby, at which the people said "They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"" but then, our beloved Jesus, spoke from the cradle, defending his mother, with words of beauty that if a man said in his old age would be amazing yet these were words ofa baby,

He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

So peace be upon Jesus, and Mary, and May Allah bring Jesus down to us again, ameen.
Reply

Umar001
11-14-2006, 02:38 PM
Hi, Free, :)

Nice to know your still sticking around,

format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Here is my question. I just started studying Islam and learned that Muslims actually believe that Jesus was a prophet. I was very surprised to discover this. My question is, if Muslims claim that Jesus was a prophet, what do they believe about the text in the Bible where he equates himself with God?
The Bible is not in it's original form, neither is the Bible we have totally original, since it dates back only to authors claiming to be Matthew Mark Luke and John.

format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Someone on another forum quoted quite a bit of the book of John to argue against the diety of Jesus but I could find many verses in the same book that clearly show Jesus believed he was equal to God. How do you address this issue?
Again, we do not take the Bible to be the accurate speech of Jesus recorded.

And personally I have yet to find any evidence of Jesus claiming to be G-d Almighty in the Bible anyhow.

format_quote Originally Posted by Free
From my perspective, you can't claim that Jesus was a prophet because of his own testimony of himself.
Because of the testimony the Gospels attribute to him.

format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Even if there are verses in the book of John that could be used to prove he isn't God, there are equally the same number of verses where he states he is. That would make him a false prophet. Can someone please explain to me what Muslims do with the rest of the book of John?
If you have a book that you know is totally true, and then you read a book that might or might not be true, you read the book you know is totally true and things that agree with it are true and things that dont are not.


format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Here are some quotes for reference:

"WHEN HE LOOKS AT ME, HE SEES THE ONE WHO SENT ME" JOHN 12:45

"I DID NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE IT." JOHN 12:47

"ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER." JOHN 14:9

"BELIEVE IN ME WHEN I SAY THAT I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME." JOHN 14:11

"THOUGH YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, I KNOW HIM (THE FATHER). IF I SAID I DID NOT, I WOULD BE A LIAR LIKE YOU. ABRAHAM REJOICED AT THE THOUGHT OF SEEING MY DAY. HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM." JOHN 8:54-59 -- THEY WANTED TO STONE HIM. WHY? BECAUSE IN CALLING HIMSELF "I AM", HE WAS EQUATING HIMSELF TO GOD.

"YOU STUDY THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK BY THEM YOU POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. THEY TESTIFY ABOUT ME YET YOU REFUSE TO COME TO ME." (V39-40)

HE LAID DOWN HIS DIETY ONLY TO PICK IT UP AGAIN. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8

Thanks for any feedback.
I doubt that any answers to those txts that I provide you'd agree to, since most people tend to believe what they believe and then try to make it fit into their scripture.

Eesa Abdullah :)

Free[/QUOTE]
Reply

Free
11-14-2006, 03:47 PM
Thanks, Woodrow, that's helpful. :)

I understand not everyone accepts the Bible as truth just as not everyone accepts the Qur'an as truth. On what then do you base your acceptance of Jesus as an authentic messenger of God?
Reply

Abu Ibraheem
11-14-2006, 06:01 PM
Free,

When you have made over 50 posts and are no longer a limited member, be sure to give me a private message and we will discuss everything God willing.
Reply

zaria
11-14-2006, 06:21 PM
As Salaamu Alaikum,

In Islam we believe Isa (Jesus)was a prophet of Allah and not his son. It is beneath Allah to have a child. We believe that Isa will return to earth. He was not crucified on the cross. Allah placed an image of Isa on the cross. He lifted Isa from the cross. Isa will return and when he do, he will kill the swan and break the cross. If you read in Surah Maida. It will better explain. Isa never told anyone to worship him but to worship Allah only. That is why they tried to kill him but Allah (Subhana Wa'tala) raised him from the cross. Worship Allah and obey his prophets. InshaAllah I have answered your question and may Allah forgive me for anything that I have said wrong.

Hear is an example. The first man created by Allah was Adam who was sent down from heaven to earth. if Allah was to have a son, wouldn't he have made his first creation of man his son?:?
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
11-15-2006, 10:09 AM
Yup u r correct wood
Reply

Skillganon
11-15-2006, 07:52 PM
Or you can listen to some Gary Miller Lectures.

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c...ary_Miller.htm
Reply

abdur_Rahmaan
11-16-2006, 03:03 AM
There is a book for you to read that I have from online:

It's titled: "The Status of Jesus in Islaam" by Shaykh Rabee' bin Haadee al-Madkhalee (an Islaamic scholar) — may Allaah preserve him...

You can download and read it: here

You must be able to view .pdf files (http://www.adobe.com)
Reply

JanatAllah
11-16-2006, 07:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Free
Thanks.

Here is my question. I just started studying Islam and learned that Muslims actually believe that Jesus was a prophet. I was very surprised to discover this. My question is, if Muslims claim that Jesus was a prophet, what do they believe about the text in the Bible where he equates himself with God?

Someone on another forum quoted quite a bit of the book of John to argue against the diety of Jesus but I could find many verses in the same book that clearly show Jesus believed he was equal to God. How do you address this issue?

From my perspective, you can't claim that Jesus was a prophet because of his own testimony of himself. Even if there are verses in the book of John that could be used to prove he isn't God, there are equally the same number of verses where he states he is. That would make him a false prophet. Can someone please explain to me what Muslims do with the rest of the book of John?

Here are some quotes for reference:

"WHEN HE LOOKS AT ME, HE SEES THE ONE WHO SENT ME" JOHN 12:45

"I DID NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE IT." JOHN 12:47

"ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER." JOHN 14:9

"BELIEVE IN ME WHEN I SAY THAT I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME." JOHN 14:11

"THOUGH YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, I KNOW HIM (THE FATHER). IF I SAID I DID NOT, I WOULD BE A LIAR LIKE YOU. ABRAHAM REJOICED AT THE THOUGHT OF SEEING MY DAY. HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM." JOHN 8:54-59 -- THEY WANTED TO STONE HIM. WHY? BECAUSE IN CALLING HIMSELF "I AM", HE WAS EQUATING HIMSELF TO GOD.

"YOU STUDY THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK BY THEM YOU POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. THEY TESTIFY ABOUT ME YET YOU REFUSE TO COME TO ME." (V39-40)

HE LAID DOWN HIS DIETY ONLY TO PICK IT UP AGAIN. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8

Thanks for any feedback.

Free
Hi Free,

Nice to know that you are studying Islam and I hope you will discover that it's a wonderful religion. :)

I think it's important that when you read the Bible or Quran you read it either with an open mind, open heart or faith. If you are missing any of those things there's a good chance that you may misunderstand the message. When I read your quotes I did so with an open mind, while remembering that Prophet Isa (PBUH) is also loved in Islam. However, some of your quotes didn't strike me as proof that Isa claimed to be God or even equal to him. Of course different people can read the same text and come to varying conclusions, added to the fact that the Bible and Quran should be read in context. One verse alone can say something different to when read with the previous and following verse for example. In addition, with the Quran for example, if you read it with hadith you may even find you understand differently again! Some parts of Quran are clear, but some parts can reach out to varying levels of understanding, so that from an illiterate to a scholar can understand the beauty of Allah (subhana wa ta3ala) and his message.

I'm not going to try and trash the Bible because although we Muslims believe some of it has been corrupted, I don't personally know which parts and as a Muslim I believe in all of Allah's books. I wouldn't want to inadvertently question the real words of Allah, but I would like to show you how some verses can be understood in different ways.

"I DID NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE IT." JOHN 12:47

This in itself says to me that Jesus acknowledges it is not for him to judge, but soley for God. Saving the world doesn't mean to me that he is the one with the power in his hands to do so. Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) also came to save us from our erroneous ways, but he did so by bringing a message from Allah who is the all powerful and all knowing.

Added to that I checked the King James version of the bible for this verse and found that verse 48 -49 says:

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Reading the verses following, give better understanding of what he was saying.

"ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER." JOHN 14:9

"BELIEVE IN ME WHEN I SAY THAT I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME." JOHN 14:11


This part of the Chapter John surrounds a situation where Prophet Isa was being questioned as to the truth of his message and he was asked to to show them God. He stated that seeing him was seeing the Father. However does this have to mean that he IS God or like God? Or can it not mean that he is bringing God's message and because of how blessed he was with the ability to spread God's message this is a proof of God's existence? There are verses in Quran when Prophet Mohamed had been asked the same, however Allah uses his creation as a proof that he exists. For example:

Surah 21 Verse 30-32

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!


This doesn't mean that His creation is Him, but that his creation proves he exists!


"YOU STUDY THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK BY THEM YOU POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. THEY TESTIFY ABOUT ME YET YOU REFUSE TO COME TO ME." (V39-40)

I don't know about in the Bible, but I know that in the Quran there are numerous places where Allah tells Prophet Mohamed to "Say" followed by Allah's words. If misunderstood or read out of context people could also try to say that Prophet Mohamed was equating himself to Allah which he clearly never did. This is also where translation from the original language comes into play. I, unfortunately, can only understand the words of the Quran in English translation, however I have seen different translations of the same verses which to me mean completely different things depending on how you look at them! Some translators add words in brackets for clarity which to my mind depends on their own interpretation of the verses. Do you think maybe that if you were able to read the Bible in it's original language you would find a different meaning? Do you think that you might find where words had been added (for clarity) or taken away thus changing its meaning? Added to that, the fact that I know Arabic is such a rich language for which English can not fully convey it's meanings, couldn't the same be said of the original Bible language, which has been translated from a number of different languages. Choosing the nearest translated word is down to man who is able to, as I said before, ascribe his own interpretation especially of one suits him more than another!

Reading, intrepreting and understanding any religious book (Bible & Quran) is no easy task and in some cases could take a lifetime of learning. My advice to you regarding reading any Holy book is to read it in context, understand the reasoning and circumstances surrounding each verse, try to understand the history relating to the period the verse was set in and also understanding the history behind the person/s who have written the translation of the religious book you're reading! My first translation of the Quran that I purchased was translated by a Jewish man - he would conveniently leave out verses of the Quran which an unsuspecting newbie as myself did not pick up on straight away! I had no idea he was Jewish until I checked out why this Quran sounded somewhat different to the one given to me in the Mosque!

Good Luck and there are some really knowledgeable people on this forum. I hope you find all the answers to your questions :)
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Free
11-17-2006, 02:02 AM
But do you read about Jesus somewhere or is your view of Jesus based on man's reasoning only?
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- Qatada -
11-17-2006, 12:50 PM
Read in the Qur'an, especially in Surah Maryam (chapter Mary) and you'll learn alot about Jesus (peace be upon him.)

You can check it from here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...anslation.html



The mention of Jesus is mentioned many times within the Qur'an and also in the Authentic Sunnah (prophetic sayings etc.)



Peace.
Reply

zaria
11-20-2006, 02:33 PM
Also in Surah Maida

MashaAllah
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