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saeedalyousuf
11-14-2006, 04:11 PM
The Need for a Coherent and Practicable Interpretation of the Holy Qur'an

>> All the Qur'anic interpretations seen by me so far are based upon interpretation of the individual verses and/or isolated groups of verses (i.e., interpretation by segregation or disintegration) therefore for each verse there are multiple and even contradictory interpretations. This deprives the suras from any coherent themes or any reliable practicable use in our lives. <<

>> If we neglect the understanding of the Qur'an then is it possible for us to be better than those who preceded us and did not accord to their scriptures the essential devotion? :

Surah Al-Jamu'a Ruku 1 Surah 62

5 The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law but who subsequently failed in those (obligations) is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah: and Allah guides not people who do wrong. 5457 <<

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-18bV0...Qwduv1imiDAz1C

Saeed
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Umar001
11-14-2006, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by saeedalyousuf
[B] therefore for each verse there are multiple and even contradictory interpretations.
I'd love to see a contradictory interpratation.
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Muhammad
11-14-2006, 04:51 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by saeedalyousuf
>> All the Qur'anic interpretations seen by me so far are based upon interpretation of the individual verses and/or isolated groups of verses (i.e., interpretation by segregation or disintegration) therefore for each verse there are multiple and even contradictory interpretations. This deprives the suras from any coherent themes or any reliable practicable use in our lives. <<
How many Qur'anic interpretations have you seen, and are you referring to the books of Tafseer?

One of the ways that the Qur'an is interpreted is using the Qur'an itself, and this is done by many, many tafseers. Therefore contrary to what you have stated, verses are not isolated but rather linked to others which explain them. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that surahs are deprived of "coherent themes" or "practicable use", so perhaps you can tell us which interpretations you have been reading and why you feel this way about them.

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
11-14-2006, 10:37 PM
:sl:
Maybe you should actually study Us&#251;l At-Tafs&#238;r and find out for yourself the principles and laws behind Qur'anic exegesis? Interpretations are not concocted out of the blue, there is a definitive methodology behind it:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post533571

:w:
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saeedalyousuf
11-22-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

How many Qur'anic interpretations have you seen, and are you referring to the books of Tafseer?

One of the ways that the Qur'an is interpreted is using the Qur'an itself, and this is done by many, many tafseers. Therefore contrary to what you have stated, verses are not isolated but rather linked to others which explain them. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that surahs are deprived of "coherent themes" or "practicable use", so perhaps you can tell us which interpretations you have been reading and why you feel this way about them.

:w:
:sl:
S:
I have seen several tafseers of both Sunnis and Shias that are currently available on the CDs Like Tabari, Qurtubi, Ibn Katheer, AlRazi, and AlKashaaf from the Sunni side. Similar number from the Shia side like AlMizan, Majma AlBayan, Furat alKoofi, AlAyashi, Al Amthal and AlSaafi.

S1:
Can you please tell me what is the connecting and unifying theme in either Sura AlBaqara or Sura Al Imran?
S2:
What is the connection between all the Ayas of either Sura AlBaqara or Sur Al Imran?

Thank you.

:w:
Saeed
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Ansar Al-'Adl
11-22-2006, 07:17 PM
Surah Al-Baqarah is the answer to the prayer for guidance in Suratul-Fatiha.
From Dr. Jeffery Lang:
Are You Talkin’ to Me?
That is the book, wherein no doubt, is guidance for those who are on their guard (2:2).
I felt a shiver run through me as I read the above verse. I thought to myself, Are you talking to me?

I was on only the second page of the Qur’an and I had already experienced a sensation I would have repeatedly as I made my way through the text. On the previous page of the Scripture was the first surah (chapter) of the Qur’an, which is essentially a prayer for guidance. It reads:
Praise belongs to God, the Sustainer of the Worlds;
The Merciful, The Compassionate;
Master of the Day of Judgement.
To You we pray, and You we seek.
Guide us on the straight path,
The path of those whom You have favored,
Not of those who have strayed or upon whom is wrath (1:1-7).
Here, on the second page, at the beginning of the second surah, God himself responds to the reader, stating that the guidance for which he or she just prayed is undoubtedly right in his or her hands. I thought, So you are saying that in this book is the guidance I just prayed for? I looked again at the second verse:
“That is the book.”
“What an original and appropriate way to present a revelation!” I said to myself. Instead of relating a history of a people, or a biography of a great teacher, or a collection of sayings of a prophet, the author, whom I assumed to be Muhammad, writes the Scripture in the form of a direct address from God to humanity. I thought that this is exactly what we should expect from a divine revelation— sort of like the Ten Commandments expanded to a book.
As I made my way through the Qur’an, my respect for its cleverness grew. I was particularly impressed by the way I would repeatedly have the same experience I mentioned above—but on an increasingly profound level—where I would have the eerie feeling that the Qur’an was actually communicating to me, intellectually, and, for lack of a better word, spiritually. I figured that somehow the author inserted in the text a large number of passages that he knew would provoke certain questions and reactions in the reader, and then he responded to the anticipated reader’s reactions in the subsequent passages. This ability of the Qur’an to engage the reader in mental and spiritual conversation—or as Fredrick Denny puts it, “to read the reader”—gives it tremendous psychological power, and this I believed might account for the renowned religious fervor of Muslims. I felt that the author must have had deep insight into human nature, especially since this inherent power of the Qur’an, judging at least from my own experience of it, is still extremely strong fourteen centuries after it first appeared.
The first twenty nine verses of the second surah concisely and eloquently summarize the Qur’an’s major themes: Humanity's need for self-surrender to God, Muhammed’s prophethood, the Hereafter and Final Judgment, the Qur’an's use of symbolism (2:26), the resurrection of man and God's ultimate sovereignty. These verses also contain a description of the Scripture’s potential audience. The readers who will benefit most from the Qur’an are the sincere believers. The readers who will gain the least are the close-minded who are bent on rejecting the Qur’an. In between these two categories are the pretenders and self-deluded who claim to be sincere in faith but who really put worldly pursuits and self-interests above faith. These will profit little from reading the Scripture unless they change their mindset. In form, the Qur’an’s introduction is not unlike introductions of many modern instructional texts, introductions which describe their books’ contents and the prerequisites needed to learn from them.
Surah Al-Baqarah begins by outlining some basic principles of faith and then it turns to the original purpose of human creation. From there is demonstrates how the prophets held fast to this lofty purpose and calls upon the people of the book to recognize this message of their ancestors and the prophets from Abraham to Muhammad pbuh. With respect to Prophet Muhammad pbuh it explains some of the legislative rulings he has brought and provides the practical implementation of the lofty purpose into our lives. The surah closes by reminding us again of the basic principles of faith and directing us back to calling upon God just as we did in Suratul Fatiha. Thus, the surah comes full circle and completes a beautiful cycle, taking us on a tour of devotion and bringung us back to supplication where we began.

:w:
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Dhulqarnaeen
11-23-2006, 09:04 AM
Originally Posted by saeedalyousuf
:sl:
S:
I have seen several tafseers of both Sunnis and Shias that are currently available on the CDs Like Tabari, Qurtubi, Ibn Katheer, AlRazi, and AlKashaaf from the Sunni side. Similar number from the Shia side like AlMizan, Majma AlBayan, Furat alKoofi, AlAyashi, Al Amthal and AlSaafi.

S1:
Can you please tell me what is the connecting and unifying theme in either Sura AlBaqara or Sura Al Imran?
S2:
What is the connection between all the Ayas of either Sura AlBaqara or Sur Al Imran?

Thank you.

:w:
Saeed

:w:
Like akhana Muhammad and ansar -hafidhahumullah- said above, you should see the tafseer of Ulama tafseer WHO have the straight manhaj, who are standing on sirothol mustaqim. And I see now that youre influenced by these shias teaching. I suggest you to search the book of one ulama, his name is DR. Ihsan Ilahi Dhaher. He explained the fact about shia, what is it, and who built this religion, and what for. and then like our scholar Ibnu Hazm said about this shia secte "laisa minal muslimun", theyre not muslim.
Long cut short, you may not take any shia scholars opinion about Islam. Cause their teaching is not Islam, and their behavior is not Islam although theyre dressing and looklike Islam. They say they love ahlul bayt but actually ahlul bayt so far away from them. So how can you compare Shia tafseer and sunni tafseer? Dont you know sunni taken from the word "sunnah". And its the right Islam, although there are a lot of muslim who claim theyre sunni but act contradict sunnah. And actually alot of people who claim under Quran and sunnah, but actually theyre doing something which contradict it, and all sects in Islam will certainly claim theyre holding Quran and sunnah. So ulama make it more specific that we shouldnt just call our self following Quran and sunnah only, but its also in need to the method to understand Quran and sunnah, which is with the understanding of salafus shalih. So the best to say is we follow Islam according Quran and sunnah along with the explanation of salafus shalih. And every muslim who follow this kinda method will never be deviated.
PS: How can I avoid to not talk about sects?!? sorry
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Woodrow
11-23-2006, 02:09 PM
This in itself is the problem: Attempts at INTERPRETATION.

Far better we study and learn the Beautiful language it is written in and not depend upon the translations of others. To gather an understanding, we have the Ahadeeth to assist us in our learning.

Yes, until we become proficient in Arabic, we do rely upon translations. But, remember a true translation will avoid attempts at interpretating. It is up to our selves to come to an understanding of the meaning of the Qur'an and for that we have many tools to use. We can study the life of the Prophet(PBUH), We can study the Sunnah and the Ahadith. We can read and learn from the writings of those who came before us.

We do not need interpretations, we need to learn the language and stop depending upon translations. We need to study that which came after the Qur'an and see how good, obediant Muslims have applied the teachings of the Qur'an.

We are the ones responsible for our final judgement. We need to strive to become Scholars and do our best to use the tools given to us and understand the Qur'an as it is written.

It only takes a minute to become a Muslim, but it will take each of us a lifetime to live as a Muslim. This is our continuous quest to learn the meaning of the Qur'an and to live it as it applies to our daily lives.

Yes, there are many people with more knowledge of the Qur'an than you or I. We do need to search for those people and see how they live the Qur'an. That is the closest we will come to true interpretations.
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Dhulqarnaeen
11-24-2006, 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
This in itself is the problem: Attempts at INTERPRETATION.

Far better we study and learn the Beautiful language it is written in and not depend upon the translations of others. To gather an understanding, we have the Ahadeeth to assist us in our learning.

Yes, until we become proficient in Arabic, we do rely upon translations. But, remember a true translation will avoid attempts at interpretating. It is up to our selves to come to an understanding of the meaning of the Qur'an and for that we have many tools to use. We can study the life of the Prophet(PBUH), We can study the Sunnah and the Ahadith. We can read and learn from the writings of those who came before us.

We do not need interpretations, we need to learn the language and stop depending upon translations. We need to study that which came after the Qur'an and see how good, obediant Muslims have applied the teachings of the Qur'an.

We are the ones responsible for our final judgement. We need to strive to become Scholars and do our best to use the tools given to us and understand the Qur'an as it is written.

It only takes a minute to become a Muslim, but it will take each of us a lifetime to live as a Muslim. This is our continuous quest to learn the meaning of the Qur'an and to live it as it applies to our daily lives.

Yes, there are many people with more knowledge of the Qur'an than you or I. We do need to search for those people and see how they live the Qur'an. That is the closest we will come to true interpretations.
:w:
Yes, Quran must be tafseer-ed with another ayah in Quran, and go along with it also tafseered with as sunnah, and that would be hadith, or practising of Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam and his agreement. This is which is so so important and urgent if someone wanna make tafseerul quran. And then they must understand ilmu tafseer, nasikh wa mansukh fil quran, and ikhtilaf bainal ulama about tafseer, and all. And we cant depend on our capability in arabic only, thats can bring deviation to the real meaning of the Quran. Just like tafseer "fii zilalil Quran" by Sayyid Qutb. It have a lot of deviation cause Sayyid Qutb -rahimahullah- is not ahli hadith and also he is not ahli fiqh and all, but he only expert in arabic language and its not even enough. Thats why we can find khawarij teaching in this tafseer and all. And ulama salaf have reminded us from reading this tafseer. Allahu A'lam
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saeedalyousuf
11-27-2006, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Surah Al-Baqarah is the answer to the prayer for guidance in Suratul-Fatiha.
From Dr. Jeffery Lang:


Surah Al-Baqarah begins by outlining some basic principles of faith and then it turns to the original purpose of human creation. From there is demonstrates how the prophets held fast to this lofty purpose and calls upon the people of the book to recognize this message of their ancestors and the prophets from Abraham to Muhammad pbuh. With respect to Prophet Muhammad pbuh it explains some of the legislative rulings he has brought and provides the practical implementation of the lofty purpose into our lives. The surah closes by reminding us again of the basic principles of faith and directing us back to calling upon God just as we did in Suratul Fatiha. Thus, the surah comes full circle and completes a beautiful cycle, taking us on a tour of devotion and bringung us back to supplication where we began.

:w:

:sl:

S:
Though Dr. Jeffery Lang has demonstrated a very clever and beneficial assessment and understanding of certain aspects of the Qur’anic way of communication but it cannot be considered as an interpretation.
When interpreting a Sura the basic terms or concepts need to be explained and the basic questions need to be answered.For example: the initial verses of Surah Al-Baqarah:


Surah Al-Baqara Ruku 1 Surah 2
1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
3 Who believe in the unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

M. Pickthall Quran Translation


The term “the unseen” is the main characteristic of those “who ward off (evil)” i.e., the pious. Therefore we need to know:
1- What does “the unseen” mean in these verses?
2- Why do we need to believe in the unseen to become pious?
3- What are the available ways and means for believing in the unseen?
4- How can we distinguish between those who do believe in the unseen and those who don’t?


Besides, he didn’t mention or propose a comprehensive topic or encompassing theme for any of the Qur'aan suras.

:w:

Saeed
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Ansar Al-'Adl
11-27-2006, 11:29 PM
:sl:
I never quoted Lang as a source for interpretation; you misunderstood my post entirely. You asked how the surah can be linked under a unifying theme and instead of repeating the same ideas I posted the the explanation already provided by Lang; you will find many similar yet far more detailed explanations in the classical works of tafseer. I provided a very clear answer on how the surah is linked under a unifying message and theme. You have to make up your mind whether you are looking for thematic commentaries or interpretative commentaries. The former comments on the overall message of a surah and the latter explains the meaning of individual passages.

:w:
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