US soldier admits Iraq girl rape

[Mr. Baldy]

absoloutley disgusting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/6152118.stm

[north_malaysian]

"I hated Iraqis, your honour," Barker told military judge Lt. Col Richard Anderson. "They can smile at you, then shoot you in your face without thinking about it." - taken from AP

Source: The Star, 17.11.2006, page W48

My view: What a noble excuse to rape a 14 year-old girl...

[Isma'el]

is that what the americans called democracy..?

[Nablus]

This is the real face of USA Army!!!!

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[Mr. Baldy]

is that what the americans called democracy..?

no, thats what the americans call 'war on terror'

[Trumble]

This is the real face of USA Army!!!!

Sadly, similar atrocities have been carried out by soldiers serving in every army there has ever been, including all the Arab and muslim ones. All you can do is take the appropriate action, which the Americans have done - he is only escaping execution as he agreed to plead guilty and testify against the others involved.

[Mr. Baldy]

Sadly, similar atrocities have been carried out by soldiers serving in every army there has ever been, including all the Arab and muslim ones. All you can do is take the appropriate action, which the Americans have done - he is only escaping execution as he agreed to plead guilty and testify against the others involved.

no, i can guarentee that no muslim army has ever commited such a disgusting and disgraceful act. maybe pakistani, arab etc armies, but rules of jihad quite clearly say that that is haraam.

[mizan_aliashraf]

May Allah destroy the entire US army

[Mr. Baldy]

well, vegeta, us muslims see the problem of islam now thanks to your many wonderful intellectual arguments, thanks for opening our eyes...


may allah have mercy on you

[blunderbus]

"no, i can guarentee that no muslim army has ever commited such a disgusting and disgraceful act."

What a ridiculous statement.

[KAding]

no, i can guarentee that no muslim army has ever commited such a disgusting and disgraceful act. maybe pakistani, arab etc armies, but rules of jihad quite clearly say that that is haraam.

Maybe the rules say it is haram. Just like the US rules say rape is a criminal act under any circumstances.

Quite frankly, I think there is more clarity on this issue within US law than in Islamic law. Apparently there are still plenty of Muslims who feel a Muhajedeen can have sex with their non-Muslim female captives.

Case in point, from the Islam-QA website, a very respected site frequently cited on this forum:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...le%20prisoners

Question: At the present time, is it Halal to have a sexual intercourse with your Loundi (a female prisoner of war) without getting married to her?.

Answer: A wife becomes permissible after shar’i marriage and a concubine becomes permissible to the man who owns her. She may originally be a prisoner of war, and a Muslim may obtain a concubine from the ruler or commander if he took part in fighting in jihad, or if he buys her from her owner. She becomes permissible for him by virtue of his ownership after it is established that she is not pregnant by waiting for one menstrual cycle, or until she has given birth if she is pregnant.

So how am I to interpret this? If a female is captured, the commander can give her to one of the Muslim fighters who then 'owns' her and can have intercourse with her? Nowhere in the answer does it give any indication that the 'female captive' has any right to refuse either becoming a slave or having intercourse.

Whatever other rulings there might be in Islam, clearly Islamic law is much more vague and unclear on the issue than US military law! US law does not make any exceptions on this. Intercourse without the consent of the woman is rape. End of story, no discussion possible.

[Umar001]

Well I wonder how many more acts like these go unreported.

Hmm but I guess everyone will just brush it off "Its only a minority" or "When it happens they are caught" hmm, yea, I wonder how real those words are.

I guess it might give me something to think about next time I hear of a suicide bombing.

Not that I condome suicide bombing, but at least this might be an insight into why stuff like that sometimes happens.

[Woodrow]

"no, i can guarentee that no muslim army has ever commited such a disgusting and disgraceful act."

What a ridiculous statement.

Not ridiculous. A very true statement. No Muslim would be able to commit such act.


Sadly, there are people that call themselves Muslims who have done so.


There is no justification for such acts and the US code for military justice, the UCMJ, does forbid such acts and such behavior from it's military personnel. It is obvious there are some people who do not adhere to the UCMJ.

It is apparant that some soldiers do not follow what they were taught:

As set out in the Statute, crimes against humanity include crimes such as the extermination of civilians, enslavement, torture, rape, forced pregnancy, persecution on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious or gender grounds, and enforced disappearances - but only when they are part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.

The "widespread or systematic" qualification for crimes against humanity is very important, as it provides a higher threshold, requiring a particular magnitude and/or scope before a crime qualifies for the Court's jurisdiction. This differentiates random acts of violence - such as rape, murder, or even torture - that could be carried out, perhaps even by soldiers in uniform, but which may not actually qualify as crimes against humanity.

War crimes include grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions and other serious violations of the laws and customs that can be applied in international armed conflict, and in armed conflict "not of an international character", as listed in the Statute, when they are committed as part of a plan or policy or on a large scale

From: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/....htm#warcrimes

For more about Military Law and what a US service man is expected to abide by:

The UCMJ: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/...I.%20SENTENCES

The Military Law: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-law.htm#ucmj

Note that Military law includes a section on Islamic Law:

Islamic Law
See also Islam Is Not the Enemy on War on Terrorism page, with declarations of Islamic leaders and conferences

Islamic Rulings on Warfare (local copy), by Aboul-Enein and Zuhur SSI, Oct 2004

Jihad's Captives: Prisoners of War in Islam (local copy), by Thomas, posted by USAFA Department of Law - examines some of the Islamic laws of war

World Wide Web Virtual Library
Islamic and Middle Eastern Law
Islamic and Middle Eastern Law - country by country

Islamic Law links on the web
Usul al-Fiqh al Islami, book on Islamic Jurisprudence
Islamic Legal Theory and Interpretation, including several downloadable books

The Concept and Practice of Jihad in Islam, by Knapp, in Parameters, Spring 2003

From: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-law.htm#islamic

An American GI is expected to Honor Islamic Law, while in an Islamic Nation.

[Woodrow]

Please stay on topic. The topic of this thread is the American Soldier. This is not a thread about relationships with slaves etc.

[Bittersteel]

unfortunately rapes will happen in every war.

[GARY]

"I hated Iraqis, your honour," Barker told military judge Lt. Col Richard Anderson. "They can smile at you, then shoot you in your face without thinking about it." - taken from AP

Source: The Star, 17.11.2006, page W48

My view: What a noble excuse to rape a 14 year-old girl...

It certainly is no excuse for raping a young girl. But this statement by Barker does show an important view into the thinking of the average soldier. Whether the view is popular or not, it can be somewhat understood, even by those that hate the soldiers. And very well may be a goal of those that fight against them. That goal is to get into the heads of the soldiers, and create paranoia. This affects their morale.
They see all these smiling faces, and any one of them could be about to kill them. This would make anyone paranoid. And yes, because of this, over time, you would hate them too.

[Muezzin]

It certainly is no excuse for raping a young girl. But this statement by Barker does show an important view into the thinking of the average soldier. Whether the view is popular or not, it can be somewhat understood, even by those that hate the soldiers. And very well may be a goal of those that fight against them. That goal is to get into the heads of the soldiers, and create paranoia. This affects their morale.
They see all these smiling faces, and any one of them could be about to kill them. This would make anyone paranoid. And yes, because of this, over time, you would hate them too.

Sounds like My Lai...

[GARY]

Sounds like My Lai...

I don't understand. What is "My Lai"?

[Muezzin]

I don't understand. What is "My Lai"?

During the war in Vietnam, US troops massacred civilians in the hamlet of My Lai. Your post reminded me of the event as the state of paranoia was present then as it is now.

[GARY]

During the war in Vietnam, US troops massacred civilians in the hamlet of My Lai. Your post reminded me of the event as the state of paranoia was present then as it is now.

I should know that.... seems I have hole in my knowledge bucket, my memory is pouring out the bottom.

I was thinking of Vietnam when I made the post. This paranoia is a powerful tool.
I wonder if Barker was using this as an excuse in his trial, or if it just came out in the questioning by lawyers?

[Woodrow]

Hopefully Iraq is not another Viet-Nam. But, I am starting to see some of the same tactics being used by all sides. For those who do not remember Nam, some daily events that American GI's faced:

During momentary breaks of peace Saigon was a beautiful City and the people were the lovingest most caring people you could ever expect to find. Us naive GI's would fall into a sense of false security and then the tragedies would begin. Five and six year old little girls wrapped in explosives and walking smiling up to small groups of GI's and detonating the explosives. Young mothers with a baby in their arms walking up to a group of young GI's and saying stuff like My Baby is sick, please help me, than when somebody came close she would detonate the hand grenade hidden in the Babies diaper. I could go on for hours talking about some of the events. Sadly the constant fear and paranoia lead many GI's to take on the Attitude of "Kill'em All. Let God(swt) do the sorting." That attitude is one of the things that lead to My Lai.

But, in spite of all that and seeing more than a few GI's break down, I do not recall any rapes upon any young girls.

I can not come up with any justification as to what drove those GI's to rape that defensless girl. In my heart I find it very difficult to forgive them for the disgrace they have brought upon all soldiers.

[imaad_udeen]

Certainly a disgusting crime. Inshallah they will be given the death sentence.

I would like if they are given back to the Iraqi government for punishment, but that is not likely to happen.

[Ninth_Scribe]

This is the real face of USA Army!!!!

It isn't supposed to be... but after reviewing numerous complaints and reports, I do have to wonder where all these wachos are coming from. I know they had problems with recruitment, but they've settled for standards that just don't wash.

No wonder Muslims hate us so much! What an -sshole!!!

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Certainly a disgusting crime. Inshallah they will be given the death sentence.

Too easy, but I'm touchy on issues of rape. I think men who rape women should have their **** cut off... let them beg for death and not find it anywhere.

But I'm twisted like that :Evil:

Ninth Scribe

[Woodrow]

Certainly a disgusting crime. Inshallah they will be given the death sentence.

I would like if they are given back to the Iraqi government for punishment, but that is not likely to happen.

I would not rule that out. If they are tried in a Military court, they will only be tried for crimes that are in violation of the UCMJ. However, they will still be subject to violation of Civilian Laws which will be in a Civilian court where the crimes took place.

If things go as they are supposed to. They will be tried in a military court and then when their sentence is complete they will be turned over to civilian courts (Iraq) for trial of Civilian crimes.

However, it will be a long wait, if they are found guilty in a Military court they will most likely receive Life imprisonment or death. It has been a long time since the US military has impossed the death penalty, so chances are the means of execution would be firing squad or possibly hanging. I doubt if the military has done any changes to allow letahal injection.

I can not say that is the way things will happen, but in my opinion that is the fairest way for it to happen.

[uknown blade]

This reminds me of a picture showing an afghani boy holding a sign saying :American soldier killed my dad and raped my sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chris4336]

Yes I believe that posts was deleted as well, which is a shame because I was looking forward to reading the responses. There was a huge thread on the treament of slave girls here
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...ave-girls.html

Basically my understanding of this thread is the prisoners of war of an Islamic army are handed over to an Islamic state, and if this state does not have the resources to take care of them, they will be distributed to men as slaves, and the men must treat them well and provide for them and then men have the right to sex with them (based on this Quranic verse: "Who guard their modesty except with those joined to them in the marriage bond or the (captive) women in their possession. They are free from blame”. (23:5-6 and 70:29-30))

I'm not quite sure if the slave has the right to say refuse sexual intercorse...if not then I would classify this as "rape" as well. I suppose the difference is the procedure that must be followed between the capture and the rape which, I suppose, makes the Islamic version marginally better than what this American solider did.

[GARY]

I'm not quite sure if the slave has the right to say refuse sexual intercorse...if not then I would classify this as "rape" as well. I suppose the difference is the procedure that must be followed between the capture and the rape which, I suppose, makes the Islamic version marginally better than what this American solider did.

In either case, whether american soldier with captive or muslim soldier with captive, the dirty b*****ds need severe discipline for forcing themselves on a young girl. American or muslim, they should keep their dirty paws off an innocent girl.

[Bittersteel]

^ I concur.But in a warzone its hard to control emotions.

[Al-Zaara]

:sl:

Astagfirullah. Everyone who does this crime, may they burn in Hell.

It's seems like war can show a man's true face... "Can't control it" Hmpf. Give me a break, it just shows how twisted your mind is. May Allah help them.

:w:

[chris4336]

Al-Zaara - Are you saying that rape in all circumstances is considered wrong in Islam?

For example, if a man forces his slave or his wife to have intercourse with him is that wrong?

I am unclear as to whether or not captives can refuse sex?

[Al-Zaara]

Al-Zaara - Are you saying that rape in all circumstances is considered wrong in Islam?

For example, if a man forces his slave or his wife to have intercourse with him is that wrong?

I am unclear as to whether or not captives can refuse sex?

I understand what you're asking and you want the Islamic view of this, but I'm afraid I really am not knowledgeable enough to tell you what Islam says about the situation with your wife or slave.

I myself feel it's wrong. Allah (swt) knows best.

[chris4336]

I consider it wrong as well and would be very relieved to hear that Islam does as well...anyone???

[Muezzin]

Islam sees rape as a crime. All this stuff about slaves and prisoners and what have you is steering away from the topic of this thread. I suggest having a quick look in the Comparative Religion section for the answers to your questions, chris4336.

[chris4336]

Sorry for getting off topic :-)

[Woodrow]

At the moment I forgot the exact ayyats. However there are numerous ayyats that demand a man to treat all woment fairly and to protect them. It is evident in many passages that rape is forbidden under all circumstances. Sadly at the moment I am brain dead. But, this one Ayyat should give some insight as to how esteemed women are in Islam.

4:19. O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

[Al-Zaara]

When I read my recent post again it seems like I don't know that rape is seen as a crime in Islam.
Now this feels embarrassing, I just wasn't sure about the wife situation.

JazakAllah khair uncle Woodrow and brother Muezzin for the clarification.

Sorry for going off-topic.

:w:

[Woodrow]

We will now return this thread back to the original topic. This was a good side track as it does show that Muslims are not setting up a double stand for Muslims and non-Muslims concerning rape.

Rape is a Crime if it is committed by a Muslim or a non-Muslim. And simply put if a woman says no it means no and against her will is rape.

[chris4336]

Thank you very much for clearing that up Woodrow. I really don't want to stay off topic but since I cannot PM I want to ask if you can PM me with some sources from the Quran/Hadith/Sharia on this topic? I would really appreciate it and I think this would really help with some of the issues I've been dealing with in Islam (and you should see the horrible sites that come up when you google "Slave, rape, Islam"). Thank you very much.

Back to topic - I think it is very wrong what happened and I pray this little girl will someday heal. I think the solider should be held completely responsible. I hope that if any good comes out of this it is that the American people will start questioning their goverment more as to why we are in this war in the first place.

[Ninth_Scribe]

I consider it wrong as well and would be very relieved to hear that Islam does as well...anyone???

Oh, it does! But it adds insult to injury when this happens in war by enemy (foreign) armies. One of the things that sent Zarqawi over the edge was the letter by Fatima from Abu Graib prison. Have you read that? I did, and I didn't care about issues of nationality... I wanted to turn them ALL into Eunuchs!

Copy of the Letter of Fatima = http://www.worldproutassembly.org/ar...ib_pris_1.html

Ninth Scribe

[KAding]

Oh, it does! But it adds insult to injury when this happens in war by enemy (foreign) armies. One of the things that sent Zarqawi over the edge was the letter by Fatima from Abu Graib prison. Have you read that? I did, and I didn't care about issues of nationality... I wanted to turn them ALL into Eunuchs!

Copy of the Letter of Fatima = http://www.worldproutassembly.org/ar...ib_pris_1.html

Ninth Scribe

Is there any indication that this letter is for real? It sounds like perfect propaganda piece to be quite honest. An abused innocent woman being raped by the evil invaders, while the brave and noble resistance fighters set up a raid in an attempt to free her. While a succesful raid, they fail to find Fatima. In despair they publish the following: ""Sorry, sister, we are not men. Only true men can answer your cry for help. Men are in a very short supply these days. Sorry again sister."" I have to say. I find it all a bit dubious.

Oh and in other news another 22 civilians die in a suicide bombing in Hilla.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Is there any indication that this letter is for real? It sounds like perfect propaganda piece to be quite honest. An abused innocent woman being raped by the evil invaders, while the brave and noble resistance fighters set up a raid in an attempt to free her. While a succesful raid, they fail to find Fatima. In despair they publish the following: ""Sorry, sister, we are not men. Only true men can answer your cry for help. Men are in a very short supply these days. Sorry again sister."" I have to say. I find it all a bit dubious.

Oh and in other news another 22 civilians die in a suicide bombing in Hilla.

I have no real reason to believe this letter was a propaganda ploy, especially given the reports that we do have. Who ever replied afterward was obviously stricken with guilt, but that has no bearing on Fatima. She had to be there and there must have been a Sunni who worked there. How else would she have been able to send the letter? And how else would the Mujahedeen have known the lay-out of the compound so well? There is too much body to disqualify it so quickly.

Ninth Scribe

[Mr. Baldy]

[QUOTE=KAding;564841]Maybe the rules say it is haram. Just like the US rules say rape is a criminal act under any circumstances.

QUOTE]

the thing is a muslim fears allah, and he knows that on the last day he'll be accountable, and so will not commit this disgusting crime.

if islam gives that right, then who are you to take it away? stop attacking the branches of islam, and attack the actual tree, if you can.

[Protected_Diamond]

SICK!