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- Qatada -
11-17-2006, 09:55 PM
Dutch government seeks to ban full-length veils

Cabinet cites security grounds; Netherlands has one million Muslims




Updated: 1:06 p.m. ET Nov. 17, 2006



THE HAGUE, Netherlands - The Dutch government announced plans Friday for legislation banning full-length veils in public places and other clothing that covers the face — putting the Netherlands at the forefront of a general European hardening toward Muslim minorities.


The Netherlands, once considered one of Europe’s most welcoming nations for immigrants and asylum seekers, is deeply divided over moves by the government to stem the tide of new arrivals and compel immigrants to assimilate into Dutch society.


“The Cabinet finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing — including the burqa — is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens,” Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said.







Basing the order on security concerns apparently was intended to respond to warnings that outlawing clothing like the all-enveloping burqa, worn by some Muslim women, could violate the constitutional guarantee against religious discrimination.


The main Dutch Muslim organization CMO has been critical of any possible ban. The idea was “an overreaction to a very marginal problem” because hardly any Dutch women wear burqas anyway, said Ayhan Tonca of the CMO. “It’s just ridiculous.”





Parliament vote uncertain

In the past, a majority of the Dutch parliament has said it would approve a ban on burqas, but opinion polls ahead of national elections Nov. 22 suggest a shift away from that position, and it is unclear if a majority in the new parliament would still back the government-proposed ban.
The issue has resonance throughout Europe. Former British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw recently caused a stir by saying he wants Muslim women to abandon the full-face veil — a view endorsed by Prime Minister Tony Blair. In France, the center-right’s leading presidential candidate Nicolas Sarkozy has increasingly been adopting some of the rhetoric of the extreme-right.



In Holland, policies associated with the nationalist fringe in 2002 have been co-opted by the center: holding asylum-seekers in detention centers, more muscle for the police and intelligence services, and visa examinations that require would-be immigrants to watch videos of homosexuals kissing and of topless women on the beach. Everyone must learn to speak Dutch, and Muslim clerics must mind what they say in their Friday sermons for fear of deportation.




Slaying triggered Dutch debate

The issue was given added urgency with the 2004 slaying of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh by a Muslim fanatic and the failed attempt to expel a Somali-born critic of Islam of her Dutch citizenship.


About 1 million Muslims live in the Netherlands, about 6 percent of the population of 16 million, but only a few hundred are believed to regularly wear a burqa.





After France banned the wearing of head scarves in public schools, the Dutch government decided to leave that question up to individual schools. Most allow head scarves.
The city of Utrecht has cut some welfare benefits to unemployed women who insist on wearing burqas to job interviews. The city claimed the women were using the burqa to avoid working, since they knew they would not be hired.





© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15766750/





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Curious girl2
11-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Salam

I can understand them wanting to restrict the Niqaab in certain situations, such as in banks, for identification purposes and in certain situations. But its wrong to outright ban it. In doing so they are hardly *liberating* the women who choose to wear it. These women might not feel confortable being out in public without it.

Perhaps they ought to have asked the Muslim women themselves if they thought it should be banned..........

Peace CG
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- Qatada -
11-17-2006, 11:22 PM
I think their trying to make the subject so common that people will actually get sick of the whole idea and tell the muslim women to 'get over it.'


And biased attacks such as "The city claimed the women were using the burqa to avoid working, since they knew they would not be hired" is used because they want to cause a stereotype against the muslims. How do they know the intentions behind what these sisters wear.. its all pure propaganda, but we knew it was comin anyway. This world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the disbeliever. But we know that paradise is surrounded by hardship, and hellfire is surrounded by evil lusts and desires.
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Dahir
11-18-2006, 03:34 AM
Europe has gone to the extreme Right isle

The issue has resonance throughout Europe, Former British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw recently caused a stir by saying he wants Muslim women to abandon the full-face veil -- a view endorsed by Prime Minister Tony Blair. In France, the center-right's leading presidential candidate Nicolas Sarkozy has increasingly been adopting some of the rhetoric of the extreme-right.

Germany, which also has a large Muslim immigrant community, has a law banning teachers in public schools from wearing head scarves, but no burqa ban.
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Muezzin
11-18-2006, 02:12 PM
Oh Dahir, you do like making my job difficult :p

Please run a search (or just have a gander down the main page ;)) before creating a new thread. Threads merged.
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Dahir
11-18-2006, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Oh Dahir, you do like making my job difficult :p

Please run a search (or just have a gander down the main page ;)) before creating a new thread. Threads merged.
I did look, but there may have been smudge on my screen! ;)
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-18-2006, 06:32 PM
there was a time when a khalif sent a whole army because a man pulled at the veil of a muslim women, today looks like thousands of sisters are getting unveiled and abused, may Allah forgive us men.... wallahi man its shameful !

MAY ALLAH GRANT US THE UNDERSTANDING !

:salamext:
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KAding
11-18-2006, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
there was a time when a khalif sent a whole army because a man pulled at the veil of a muslim women, today looks like thousands of sisters are getting unveiled and abused, may Allah forgive us men.... wallahi man its shameful !

MAY ALLAH GRANT US THE UNDERSTANDING !

:salamext:
I doubt there are thousands of people with a Burqa in Holland.
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- Qatada -
11-18-2006, 07:44 PM
He wasn't just talking about holland ^^



Peace.
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Muslim Thinker
11-18-2006, 07:52 PM
Let us understand one thing: WE are immigrants in Netherlands, and thus we are obliged to abide by THEIR laws. If you dont like this law, come to a Muslim country.
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KAding
11-18-2006, 08:49 PM
If it's any comfort I also think it's a ridiculous law. It does not only apply to burqa's, but any completely covering piece of clothing. That includes motorcycle helmets while not driving a motorcycle for example.

But nevertheless, it is clearly aimed at the burqa, something a feminist country like Holland has trouble accepting. I think it is also a way to pressure these people to choose, either you discard this orthodox Islamic piece of clothing, or maybe you are better of in an Islamic country.
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Trumble
11-18-2006, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
If it's any comfort I also thinking it's a ridiculous law.
Likewise.

I agree that this is clearly aimed at muslims, and is unacceptable; people should be free to wear what they choose to wear.

The only exception in the case of the burqa would be when it is necessary to see the face to confirm identity, such as confirming the identity of a driver to the photo on their license, or of a traveller to their passport.
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*love4isl@m*
11-18-2006, 09:41 PM
Jazakallah brother: Fi_Sabilillah 4 sharing :) :) :)

:sl:


Subhannah! Holland wasnt that bad at any religious issue when i was there,
Although i do admit that was nearly 6 yrs agoo...& laws change as time goes by...
And I will Also admit that the deen of Islam is not very stong to compared
to the people in britain of both being as european countries!!!


Anyways alhamdulillah i've left there but i feel sorry 4 those Who wear
Niqaab or those who wear (burqa :? ) In Holland...
(what is Burqa by da way???-Is it an asian word :?...)

:w:
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Islamicboy
11-18-2006, 09:50 PM
Howcome muslims make such big deal when a non muslim country bans hijaab? Is this not something expected from them? Also howcome muslims dont speak out or have double standards when a muslim country bans hijaab? Turkey banned hijab before 911 and also i think it was the first country to do start ban of hijab.

Muslims are too blame! i.e. Sell out muslims
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E'jaazi
11-19-2006, 06:03 AM
We must figure out a way to protest. We have to. If they get away with this, the next thing they'll do is try and make the men shave off our beards! I'm am going to change one thing for now. I recently started using Shell gasoline. I knew it was good gas, and since all of the companies are crooks, I figured, why not use it. But they are a Dutch company and as soon as I empty my tank, I am going to switch brands. So if any Muslims out there use Shell, I urge you to stop and switch brands. Let's also see if anyone can get an address that we can write/email to with our complaints and bring national attention and protest to this matter. May Allah help the Muslims gain victory! Ameen!
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E'jaazi
11-19-2006, 08:53 AM
WE NEED TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS! GO TO www.shell.com AND YOU CAN LOOK UP THE COUNTRY YOU ARE IN OR CLOSET TO AND CONTACT THEM ABOUT THIS. WE ALL KNOW THAT OIL COMPANIES HAVE A BIG INFLUENCE ON GOVERNMENT AND POLITICIANS. I WILL BE CONTACTING THEM ON MONDAY, INSHA ALLAH.
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guyabano
11-19-2006, 09:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Thinker
Let us understand one thing: WE are immigrants in Netherlands, and thus we are obliged to abide by THEIR laws. If you dont like this law, come to a Muslim country.

true words !
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KAding
11-19-2006, 09:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *love4isl@m*
Anyways alhamdulillah i've left there but i feel sorry 4 those Who wear
Niqaab or those who wear (burqa :? ) In Holland...
(what is Burqa by da way???-guess its an asian word...)[/B]

:w:
This is a burqa.



It's something specific to Afghanistan I think. I'm somewhat confused whether the Niqab will also be banned in public. There is no law yet at the moment, only an intention to create one.

The problem is that the idea behind the Niqab and Burqa are exactly the opposite from what the Dutch governments wants Muslim women to do. The Burqa and Niqab are made to inhibit social contact between the woman and strangers, especiallly men, while the whole integration policy of the government is based on increasing social contact between those groups and the rest of society.
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stannis
11-23-2006, 10:03 AM
Europe has gone to the extreme Right isle
No, it hasn't. You cannot possibly compare decisions made by democratic governments with the militarist fascist regimes of the 1930's.
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