Iranian-American Student Abused By UCLA UCPD With Tazer GUN

[Samee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3GstYOIc0I

Equal rights? This nation has a tradition of "all talk, no action." When have we ever TRULY had equal rights in this nation? Are there still glass ceilings for women and minorities? Are there still biased count rulings and arrests based on skin color and racial profiling? And when was the last time you saw a white guy get tazed for not showing ID? It's easy to say we live in a country with "equal rights" when you've never really, truly, tasted the brutal pain of racism.

[Muslim Thinker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs&eurl=

From the school news:
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960

[Muslim Thinker]

I would like the thoughts of atheists on this especially. Thanks

[Muezzin]

Shades of Rodney King...

I hope they get sued profusely.

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[KAding]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3GstYOIc0I

Equal rights? This nation has a tradition of "all talk, no action." When have we ever TRULY had equal rights in this nation? Are there still glass ceilings for women and minorities? Are there still biased count rulings and arrests based on skin color and racial profiling? And when was the last time you saw a white guy get tazed for not showing ID? It's easy to say we live in a country with "equal rights" when you've never really, truly, tasted the brutal pain of racism.

How do you know this was racially motivated? Besides, weren't the cops a black guy and an asian? Not to say they can't be racist, but it does undermine the claim that this would never happen to whites.

The guy apparently was on the premises without ID, refused to show an ID and refused to leave. He made a big scene and did not obey orders from law enforcement officials. He does not appear completely innocent in this whole mess. Which does not mean the officers have no blame, their response was clearly excessive.

[Muezzin]

On reflection, I don't think it was racially motivated and to argue that is barking up the wrong tree. I think it's an issue of excessive force. The guy was indeed making a scene, but as you said, that doesn't justify the disproportionate response. I hope those rent-a-cops are dealt with accordingly.

[Angelzz]

I wish i never saw that. I dont really care what reason it was ..... He is a student not a criminal . There is so many things wrong with what i just seen i dunno from where to begin and thats just with this one poor guy. What about Palestine? and the things we dont get to see? I really find it hard to deal with all the unjustice in this world.

[Muslim Thinker]

How do you know this was racially motivated? Besides, weren't the cops a black guy and an asian? Not to say they can't be racist, but it does undermine the claim that this would never happen to whites.

The guy apparently was on the premises without ID, refused to show an ID and refused to leave. He made a big scene and did not obey orders from law enforcement officials. He does not appear completely innocent in this whole mess. Which does not mean the officers have no blame, their response was clearly excessive.

-----

The Powell Library is open to the public until 11PM. After 11PM it's reserved for students, faculty and staff. Even though it’s true that be failed to produce an ID, this kid fully agreed to leaving the library. According to the UCLA new source, when he was asked to leave, he relied “Yeah, just a min, let me log off" implying he was going to shut off the computer and leave, they called campus police. By the time the campus had arrived a few min. later, he had packed up all of his stuff he was working on and was walking out.

Your assumptions also misguided you from reality. Here are some news sources about the incident:

[BREAKING NEWS]: Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
Incident occured around 11:30 p.m. in the Powell Library CLICC computer lab

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your ****ing abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

Also, it seems from your misguided post that you have little knowledge of tasers and when they should be used:

What happens to you when you are shot by a taser or stun gun?

Tasers and stun guns are high-voltage, low-current stimulators that can cause involuntary muscle contractions, loss of body control, and sensations such as pain and extreme fatigue. They are used as police weapons as a person can be immobilised without the injury or death that would normally result from the use of a normal police revolver.

Both tasers and stun guns produce electrical stimuli in the form of shocks of about 50,000 volts that last for a fraction of a second. In a taser, an electrode is shot out as a dart and impacts upon the body. In a stun gun, the electrodes are fixed into the gun itself.

[/b]If taser darts are shot into a standing person's thigh at 10 inches apart and from a distance of six feet away, the leg will be locked into a flexed position and the person will be unable to continue to stand. If a stun gun is shot at a standing person's rib cage from a distance of six feet away for four to five seconds, the person will be considerably weakened and in most cases brought to their knees.

----

video --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs&eurl=

article on what happened --> http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958

statement from UCLA --> http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=7513

These sources clearly dismantle your view of the tragedy.

According to winesses:

1.) He did not have an ID card and was asked to leave.
2.) Student complied
3.) Minutes later, cops got hold of him near the exit and the student got rightfully insecure as to why.
4.) Student gets handcuffed.
5.) Cops tasered the kid a total of 6 times, especially after the student could not stand after being tased. The cops had no idea that his muscles were flexed.
6.) Cops threatened students watching to taser them. These students merely wanted their ID badges for the complaint.
7.) Reports state that Tabatabainejad was hit by the suffered "moderate to severe contusions" on his right side.
8.) It was just sadism on behalf of the cops. There were enough there to easily push him to the ground and cuff him. Woulda taken a real cop about 15 seconds at most.


---

---- Even though I agree it was not a racial issue, your case that one cop was black and the other was Asian is idiotic to the nth degree. You expect all racists to be Caucasians?? There is no justification for an UNARMED, HANDCUFFED STUDENT being brutally treated like that. Tasers are only to be used when victims are violently aggressive to the officer (s). Statistics show that 148 died after being tasered in the past 5 years.

[GARY]

MOD - post has been edited

I might say that given the fact that you are new to the forum that you could be excused for some of the insults that you have directed at this other member. But there is no excuse for speaking this way to another. Besides the fact that there are strict forum rules regarding verbal abuse of others, there is also the issue of discussing respectfully. If you disagree, by all means point out where you believe the other person to be wrong, but pleasae refrain from the insults.
Also, in regard to the extra information you provided about the situation as it occured, this was not obvious to everyone reading this thread. I did not know all that happened before getting to this information in your post, and until then I was making the same assumptions. How would a person know? It appeared as if the person was being combative with police.
While true that this makes a good case for getting all information before making a judgement (which we are all guilty of not doing), it is equally important to be respectful of others on the forum, and everywhere else you meet others in life.

[GARY]

[url] And when was the last time you saw a white guy get tazed for not showing ID?

Happens all the time. Beatings are common too. And yes, on white guys. Go sit outside any nightclub anywhere in the world, cops use the tazer on people that don't co-operate.

If it really happened as the information that we have now been given - cop grabs guy's arm to escort him out - then I would agree that this may have been unnecessary, but was no reason for the guy to start hollering at police. And certainly was unwise. Hollering at police in what is already becoming a 'scene', is clearly opening the door to an escalation. The police are likely to respond to what is viewed as as undermining their authority, which whether we like it or not, they do have.
Even if we think they are wrong, the smart thing to do is to co-operate and dispute their actions later. Is it really wise to risk being roughed up just to prove your point on the spot?
If a police officer chooses to grasp your arm to escort you out of a building, my advice is, let him have his moment. You can always make a complaint later.

How do you know this was racially motivated?

Happens to everybody. Just so happens that when it happens to people that are not white, somebody always has to pull the race card.

[Muslim Thinker]

I am not going to apologize for my comments. KAding tried to take an authoritative stance and undermined the incident by falsely putting some accusations on the poor kid where reality was quite the opposite.

[GARY]

I am not going to apologize for my comments. KAding tried to take an authoritative stance and undermined the incident by falsely putting some accusations on the poor kid where reality was quite the opposite.

Do we know what his level of understanding was when he made his statement? You had information that he was not aware of. I also was not aware of the article you quoted, and was drawing the same conclusions.

Can he really be blamed for not being given all the information?

[Muezzin]

Can we just get back to the subject at hand please? Thank you for providing the facts, Muslim Thinker.

[KAding]

Whoa calm down Muslim Thinker. No need to start calling names, like retard and ass. :S

The facts are very much disputed. Other reports indicate he repeatedly refused to show his ID or leave when asked.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ines-frontpage

According to the university, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a 23-year-old senior, was asked for his ID as part of a routine nightly procedure to make sure that everyone using the library after 11 p.m. is a student or otherwise authorized to be there. Campus officials have said the long-standing policy was adopted to ensure students' safety.

Authorities said Tabatabainejad refused repeated requests by community service officers and regular campus police to provide identification or to leave.

UCLA Police Chief Karl Ross said the officers decided to use the Taser to incapacitate Tabatabainejad after he went limp while they were escorting him out and urged other library patrons to join his resistance.

Mavrick Goodrich, a chemical engineering major who observed the incident, said Tabatabainejad shouted, "Am I the only martyr?"

Some witnesses disputed the officers' account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door.

It seems he had plenty of opportunities to defuse the situation and decided rather to escalate. Nevertheless, like I said, the officers response was clearly excessive.

[GARY]

Authorities said Tabatabainejad refused repeated requests by community service officers and regular campus police to provide identification or to leave.

If he refused to provide ID or to leave, then clearly the police are within their rights to forcefully remove him. If he then begins to shout, "don't touch me!" and avoids being removed, then clearly, it is time to use the tazer. It would be unwise to behave this way, if he did.

A jolt from a tazer does not leave you unable to move for long periods of time. If he was able to move, and simply being stubborn when told to stand up, then yes, time for some more tazer. If in fact this is what was happening. But since there are conflicting reports, we don't really know what happened.

Both scenarios are believable. Some police officers will use excessive force. On the other hand, some young men are rebellious and will defy the authority that police officers have, and refuse to co-operate.

[Muslim Thinker]

Whoa calm down. No need to start calling names.

The facts are very much disputed. Other reports indicate he repeatedly refused to show his ID or leave when asked.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ines-frontpage


It seems he had plenty of opportunities to defuse the situation and decided rather to escalate. Nevertheless, like I said, the officers response was clearly excessive.

LOL, I'll take the accounts of first hand witnesses over the accounts of the cops anyday. Did you know that kid also had a medical condition which he told the cops about when they grabbed him?? The overwhelming majority of the sources support that the kid complied to leave and HE WAS HELD BY THE COPS ON HIS WAY OUT!! Do you not understand English?? I also noticed you haven’t bothered to even see the video or read the accounts of eye-witnesses. I admit the kid said some crazy stuff (ex. Patriot Act), but why do u expect when the cops treat u like an animal??

It seems he had plenty of opportunities to defuse the situation and decided rather to escalate. Nevertheless, like I said, the officers response was clearly excessive.

He did whatever a person in his position would. You’re sickening by undermining the tragedy. Also, the video evidence does not at all indicate he yelled “am I a matry” crap. He didn’t have an ID, agreed to leave after shutting the computer, and was leaving before the cops grabbed him and tasered him six times AFTER HE WAS HANDCUFFED!! This kid wasn’t even fighting. What opportunities did he have?

[Muezzin]

If he refused to provide ID or to leave, then clearly the police are within their rights to forcefully remove him. If he then begins to shout, "don't touch me!" and avoids being removed, then clearly, it is time to use the tazer. It would be unwise to behave this way, if he did.

A jolt from a tazer does not leave you unable to move for long periods of time. If he was able to move, and simply being stubborn when told to stand up, then yes, time for some more tazer. If in fact this is what was happening. But since there are conflicting reports, we don't really know what happened.

Both scenarios are believable. Some police officers will use excessive force. On the other hand, some young men are rebellious and will defy the authority that police officers have, and refuse to co-operate.

Either way, these rent-a-cops should be punished. The guy already got his punishment.

On the video, one of these 'officers' (because they're not part of the LAPD, they seem to be some sort of internal police force for the uni) even threatened to tazer one of the other students who was asking for his badge number.

I don't think real police officers would react so stupidly. There were three or four of them, if he was making a scene and breaching the peace, a cop would just cuff him and simply drag him out with his comrades as opposed to zapping him, cuffing him, zapping him some more and wondering why he can't get up.

[Muslim Thinker]

If he refused to provide ID or to leave, then clearly the police are within their rights to forcefully remove him. If he then begins to shout, "don't touch me!" and avoids being removed, then clearly, it is time to use the tazer. It would be unwise to behave this way, if he did.

Did you not read what I posted? He agreed to leave after shutting of the computer. He was grabbed by the cops ON HIS WAY OUT. Anybody in his position would be pissed when the cops grab his arms and arrest him FOR NO REASON. Where does it say he was avoiding being removed?? Did you not see the video when he was yelling in desperation that he was leaving?? Quit being delusional. The kid even had a medical condition.

A jolt from a tazer does not leave you unable to move for long periods of time. If he was able to move, and simply being stubborn when told to stand up, then yes, time for some more tazer. If in fact this is what was happening. But since there are conflicting reports, we don't really know what happened.

Do you even know how much it hurts to get tasered? No, you don’t. The kid CANNOT stand up because his legs were flexed!! No sane person would be stubborn enough to endure the pain of a taser 6 times. There are no conflicting reports……the video and the eye-witness accounts of the students and alumnus already reflects a clear picture of the incident.

Both scenarios are believable. Some police officers will use excessive force. On the other hand, some young men are rebellious and will defy the authority that police officers have, and refuse to co-operate.

Despite the fact that reports refute your scenario, why would a kid be defiant over a silly ID card?? It is obvious the polices for scumbags and deserved to be sued. I have access to the kid’s facebook and I don’t see the images to be pleasant.

[GARY]

Either way, these rent-a-cops should be punished. The guy already got his punishment.

On the video, one of these 'officers' (because they're not part of the LAPD, they seem to be some sort of internal police force for the uni) even threatened to tazer one of the other students who was asking for his badge number.

I don't think real police officers would react so stupidly. There were three or four of them, if he was making a scene and breaching the peace, a cop would just cuff him and simply drag him out with his comrades as opposed to zapping him, cuffing him, zapping him some more and wondering why he can't get up.

I somewhat agree. Even if he was refusing to co-operate, he was not a big person. They could have both dragged him out (screaming and kicking I'm sure).

[Muslim Thinker]

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

^^ What are your thoughts, GARY?? These students lying??

[GARY]

Did you not read what I posted? He agreed to leave after shutting of the computer. He was grabbed by the cops ON HIS WAY OUT. Anybody in his position would be pissed when the cops grab his arms and arrest him FOR NO REASON. Where does it say he was avoiding being removed?? Did you not see the video when he was yelling in desperation that he was leaving?? Quit being delusional. The kid even had a medical condition.

That is one account of what happened. If we are going to be fair we should veiw both sides of what happened. The video does not show how it started.

Do you even know how much it hurts to get tasered? No, you don’t. The kid CANNOT stand up because his legs were flexed!! No sane person would be stubborn enough to endure the pain of a taser 6 times. There are no conflicting reports……the video and the eye-witness accounts of the students and alumnus already reflects a clear picture of the incident.

LOL! Actually, I do know what it is like. It is extremely unpleasant. But it does not leave you unable to move afterwards, although it does rattle your cage. You feel very "anxious" afterwards.

There are no conflicting reports……

Yes, there are. Please read back in the thread.

Despite the fact that reports refute your scenario, why would a kid be defiant over a silly ID card?? It is obvious the polices for scumbags and deserved to be sued. I have access to the kid’s facebook and I don’t see the images to be pleasant.

I don't have a scenario. I propose that both are quite possible. He would be defiant just to be rebellious. You mean you have never seen people do this? I have seen this many times. It of course makes no sense, yet people do it. There was a time when I myself have been quite rebellious, and scuffled with police. I think back on those times and realize that the police did what they needed to do, and I deserved to be roughed up (as I was).

[KAding]

LOL, I'll take the accounts of first hand witnesses over the accounts of the cops anyday. Did you know that kid also had a medical condition which he told the cops about when they grabbed him?? The overwhelming majority of the sources support that the kid complied to leave and HE WAS HELD BY THE COPS ON HIS WAY OUT!! Do you not understand English?? I also noticed you haven’t bothered to even see the video or read the accounts of eye-witnesses. I admit the kid said some crazy stuff (ex. Patriot Act), but why do u expect when the cops treat u like an animal??

He did whatever a person in his position would. You’re sickening by undermining the tragedy. Also, the video evidence does not at all indicate he yelled “am I a matry” crap. He didn’t have an ID, agreed to leave after shutting the computer, and was leaving before the cops grabbed him and tasered him six times AFTER HE WAS HANDCUFFED!! This kid wasn’t even fighting. What opportunities did he have, dolt?

Look, if you can't discuss this matter without using insults I can assure you that you'll be banned soon enough, since it is against forum rules.

The video clearly shows he was being combative and assertive towards the cops. On the 'martyr crap'. Didn't you just tell me you had so much faith in witnesses? ;)

[Muezzin]

Threads merged.

[Muslim Thinker]

Look, if you can't discuss this matter without using insults I can assure you that you'll be banned soon enough, since it is against forum rules.

Nice comeback. Why don't you try to get some concrete evidence next time before backing those abusing their authority??

The video clearly shows he was being combative and assertive towards the cops. On the 'martyr crap'. Didn't you just tell me you had so much faith in witnesses?

The video was takes after he was tasered once. So, I dont blame him for being pissed off being tasered over nothing. I have faith in witnesses, but where in the video does he say that?? Also, the overwhelming majority of the witnesses sympathize with the kid.

[Muezzin]

This is a highly contentious issue. Let's just not attack each other over it.

[GARY]

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

^^ What are your thoughts, GARY?? These students lying??

No, I think they are reporting it exactly as they saw it. Through emotional eyes.
When a father must discipline a child, it is unpleasant for others to observe. Yet it is not a bad thing, it must be done. This crowd did not like it because it was a forceful act. The facts without the emotional parts of the statements as presented above are, 1)student was screaming and was shot with tazer when he would not stand up 2)students were told to stand back or they would also be tazered.

We don't really know what the facts were leading up to the altercation. So the only thing left here to mention is the threat to tazer other students. This is reasonable, and completely falls in line with police training. An angry crowd must be kept at a distance to avoid any others getting involved and interfering. If this were to happen then they would deserve to be tazered and arrested.

[Muslim Thinker]

No, I think they are reporting it exactly as they saw it. Through emotional eyes.
When a father must discipline a child, it is unpleasant for others to observe. Yet it is not a bad thing, it must be done. This crowd did not like it because it was a forceful act. The facts without the emotional parts of the statements as presented above are, 1)student was screaming and was shot with tazer when he would not stand up 2)students were told to stand back or they would also be tazered.

It's getting difficult to reason with you. The crowds did not like it because it was UNJUSTIFIED. If the student had a gun and was tasered like that, I am positive you would not see much protest.

[GARY]

Also, the overwhelming majority of the witnesses sympathize with the kid.

Sympathy does not come from fact. It comes from emotion. Emotion also comes from things other than fact. If the student is being very dramatic, then people are likely going to feel for him.

Again, I am not saying that it is not possible that it happened this way. Just that both scenarios are possible. We have no way of knowing.

[Muslim Thinker]

Sympathy does not come from fact. It comes from emotion. Emotion also comes from things other than fact. If the student is being very dramatic, then people are likely going to feel for him.

When they see something as unjustified, then they will obviously get emotional over it. I dont think the kids would be making a fuss over the incident if the kid was armed. The fact derived from the emotions of so many witnesses is that the cops were excessive in their actions.

Again, I am not saying that it is not possible that it happened this way. Just that both scenarios are possible. We have no way of knowing.

My scenario is supported with video evidence and a lost list of witnesses. Your scenario is supported with accounts of cops trying not to get suspended for their actions.

[GARY]

It's getting difficult to reason with you. The crowds did not like it because it was UNJUSTIFIED. If the student had a gun and was tasered like that, I am positive you would not see much protest.

Justification comes from weighing the facts, which we do not know. People's emotional testimony are not facts.
Law enforcement are not expected to meet suspects with equal force. They must meet any opposite force with greater force in order to subdue the suspect.
As I said earlier though, they could have simply dragged him out.

[Muslim Thinker]

Justification comes from weighing the facts, which we do not know. People's emotional testimony are not facts.

Definitely more factual than the side defending the cops. All the cops have in their support is their own account. Very factual indeed :rolls eyes:

Law enforcement are not expected to meet suspects with equal force. They must meet any opposite force with greater force in order to subdue the suspect. As I said earlier though, they could have simply dragged him out.

The two cops had the PUNY kid HANDCUFFED. There is no way the kid provided enough force for them to even consider using the taser. The kid was even yelling "Im not fighting you" in desperation.

[GARY]

Definitely more factual than the side defending the cops. All the cops have in their support is their own account. Very factual indeed :rolls eyes:

If you refuse to view the other sources then sure. But you certainly would be passed in the screening process for jury duty as a 'bias risk".

The two cops had the PUNY kid HANDCUFFED. There is no way the kid provided enough force for them to even consider using the taser. The kid was even yelling "Im not fighting you" in desperation.

It turns out that the kid was not as puny as we thought - 200 pounds.

The sheriff's policies expressly say deputies can't use Tasers simply to move someone.

But UCLA police are allowed to use Tasers on passive resisters as "a pain compliance technique," Assistant Chief Jeff Young said in an interview Friday.

"He was 200 pounds and went limp and was very hard to manage. They were trying to get him on his feet," Young said.

The officers used the device in stun mode — which affects only the part of the body being touched — rather than the dart mode, in which tiny electrodes are fired into a person and pass a current through them, disabling the person entirely.

source: LA Times

[Muslim Thinker]

If you refuse to view the other sources then sure. But you certainly would be passed in the screening process for jury duty as a 'bias risk".

I'd choose the side where better evidence leads to.

It turns out that the kid was not as puny as we thought - 200 pounds.

For an advocate of factual evidence, you are being hypocritical. The assertion is an over exaggeration of the cops. Any reliable source for his weight. Based on the way he looked in the video and the way be was jumping each time he was tasered, it is very unlikely he was 200 pounds. Remember, the reputation and job security of the cops are at stake, and I wouldnt be surprised if they slighted twisted the incident to their favor.

[GARY]

At any rate, if I were one of the officers, and the scenario had been that he was not co-operating, I would also have tazered him. I don't think I would have continued after he clearly was not going to get up. I would have hog-tied him and called for assistance to carry him out.

[Muslim Thinker]

At any rate, if I were one of the officers, and the scenario had been that he was not co-operating, I would also have tazered him. I don't think I would have continued after he clearly was not going to get up. I would have hog-tied him and called for assistance to carry him out.

Of course you would....but the thing is he WAS cooperating. I wouldve slammed a chair to the cops to save that poor kid. I cant tolerate people abusing their authority like that. It seems you're taking what the cops say as "facts," which is quite laughable considering the circumstances.

[GARY]

Of course you would....but the thing is he WAS cooperating. I wouldve slammed a chair to the cops to save that poor kid. I cant tolerate people abusing their authority like that. It seems you're taking what the cops say as "facts," which is quite laughable considering the circumstances.

Clearly you have not read my posts, or only read what you 'wanted to see'. Your emotional response is an example of why critical decisions are best left to people with critical thinking skills, rather than people prone to emotional responses.

he WAS cooperating.

We don't know that. If he was pissed for being questioned, he may have been pouting and having a tantrum. We don't know.

I wouldve slammed a chair to the cops to save that poor kid.

And you would have recieved a good dose of tazer and been arrested yourself, as would be deserved for such behaviour.

It seems you're taking what the cops say as "facts

No, taking as one of the possibilites.

[Keltoi]

Would this even be discussed on this forum if the kid wasn't an "Iranian-American" student? I realize this is a Muslim forum, but by creating a thread of this nature one is led to believe this happened because the kid was Iranian-American, and haven't seen any evidence to support this supposed racial component.

[GARY]

Would this even be discussed on this forum if the kid wasn't an "Iranian-American" student? I realize this is a Muslim forum, but by creating a thread of this nature one is led to believe this happened because the kid was Iranian-American, and haven't seen any evidence to support this supposed racial component.

No, it would not have been discussed. The actual racial assumption here, is that he was a muslim. Is it correct to assume that any person associated with Iran is muslim? Obviously, the connection being made to the relevance of this forum, is that he is muslim. But is he?

Tsk, Tsk. Preconceived notions are the roots of racial hatred and violence.

[Muslim Thinker]

Would this even be discussed on this forum if the kid wasn't an "Iranian-American" student? I realize this is a Muslim forum, but by creating a thread of this nature one is led to believe this happened because the kid was Iranian-American, and haven't seen any evidence to support this supposed racial component.

You are assuming that Muslims here care because that kid was probably a Muslim, which may be true. It is definitely not true if the victim was atheist, I would feel the same way without a doubt. I dont give preference based on religious affiliation.

[Muslim Thinker]

Tsk, Tsk. Preconceived notions are the roots of racial hatred and violence.

LOL, you make it ironic :D

[GARY]

LOL, you make it ironic :D

If you would like to post evidence of my racist tendancies I would be pleased to answer the charges. If not it would be proper to not make unfounded allegations toward other members.

[Muslim Thinker]

Okay GARY, I apologize.

My Muslim friend at UCLA said that the kid is seeking legal action now, and that the kid actually asked for the trouble.

Iamthestarman (5:17:34 PM): tasers?
Greensoap6 (5:17:35 PM): ya
Greensoap6 (5:17:53 PM): those cops need to get whooped
Iamthestarman (5:18:20 PM): nah.. i actually researched the whole thing
Greensoap6 (5:18:31 PM): its the kid's fault?
Iamthestarman (5:18:45 PM): the cops should be re-evaluated for incompetency
Greensoap6 (5:18:58 PM): is the kid suing?
Iamthestarman (5:19:09 PM): i think he's pursuing legal action
Iamthestarman (5:19:14 PM): but the kid is a dumbass
Iamthestarman (5:19:15 PM): he asked for it
Greensoap6 (5:19:21 PM): how so?
Greensoap6 (5:19:32 PM): they grabbed him as he was leaving right?
Iamthestarman (5:19:47 PM): well.. that's a point of contention
Iamthestarman (5:19:52 PM): some people say thats the case
Iamthestarman (5:19:55 PM): others are like no
Iamthestarman (5:20:07 PM): but before that part happened.. here's what happened
Iamthestarman (5:20:14 PM): (paraphrased)
Iamthestarman (5:20:24 PM): the kid was at the libraryIamthestarman (5:20:33 PM): the cso asks him for his id card
Iamthestarman (5:20:37 PM): he says he doesn't have itIamthestarman (5:20:41 PM): the cso asks him to leave
Iamthestarman (5:20:46 PM): he tells the cso to "**** off"
Iamthestarman (5:21:10 PM): now.. people who know the guy all know he's something of a trouble maker
Iamthestarman (5:21:27 PM): and also an idiot
Iamthestarman (5:21:36 PM): unanimously that's been stated
Iamthestarman (5:21:46 PM): given his response to the cso, i believe it
Iamthestarman (5:21:54 PM): if the guy said leave, i'd be like "alright.. okay"
Iamthestarman (5:22:08 PM): and just fumbled out while feeling ¬__¬
Iamthestarman (5:22:17 PM): so yeah
Iamthestarman (5:23:10 PM): so anyways
Iamthestarman (5:23:19 PM): apparently the cso is then like "alright let me go get the cops"
Greensoap6 (5:23:22 PM): wow, then he deserved it
Greensoap6 (5:23:29 PM): why did he evem do that?Greensoap6 (5:23:33 PM): thats so immature
Iamthestarman (5:23:47 PM): i think he feels like he was being selected for racial profilingIamthestarman (5:23:52 PM): according to himself
Greensoap6 (5:25:19 PM): is it true that he yelled
Greensoap6 (5:25:30 PM): "am I the only martyr here?"
Iamthestarman (5:25:53 PM): and "patriot act"
Greensoap6 (5:26:00 PM): so that's a yes?
Greensoap6 (5:26:10 PM): lol, this kid is retarded
Iamthestarman (5:26:13 PM): in an effort to appeal to his fellow bleeding heart liberals i guess
Iamthestarman (5:26:17 PM): ucla is full of those
Greensoap6 (5:26:28 PM): i feel dirty defending him in forums bro

Wow, after listening to my Muslim bro in UCLA, I feel dirty defending this kid. You were right all along :(

[zanjabeela]

I guess it will be very interesting to see what comes out in court. But tazering a guy while he is down, and yelling for him to stand up after the tazer shot, doesn't sound like the appropriate law enforcement procedure. And those actions certainly ARE clear from the video.

And its widely held that after "a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so." source

Its kind of hard to isolate emotions when you see and hear a video as shocking as this, and then you realize that its literally in your own backyard...and man could have been you on the receiving end of the tazer.

May the right side win the legal battle.

[Muezzin]

I could see full well he was being stupid and overly dramatic. It still does not justify the response, which was overkill. That's why I said the guy got his punishment for being a fool. Those internal police officers should also be held to account, though.

Also, as I said earlier, race for me was not the issue, but rather excessive force was, no matter how foolish this guy was being.

[Muslim Thinker]

My Muslim brother said that the Iranian had a reputation for being a trouble maker and that he's constantly paranoid of racial profiling.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

If you would like to post evidence of my racist tendancies I would be pleased to answer the charges. If not it would be proper to not make unfounded allegations toward other members.

I suggest u do the same. Not everyone here would think its posted cuz the student might have been Muslim. Your kinda generalizing. Talk about preconceived notions. I see double standards ;) I cant speak for anyone else, but i was definitely wasnt thinking it.
Btw, im only referring to the second sentence of ur post.

Anyways, back on topic :hiding:

[GARY]

I suggest u do the same. Not everyone here would think its posted cuz the student might have been Muslim. Your kinda generalizing. Talk about preconceived notions. I see double standards ;) I cant speak for anyone else, but i was definitely wasnt thinking it.
Btw, im only referring to the second sentence of ur post.

Anyways, back on topic :hiding:

Well let me ask you, would the story have been posted here if it was a white guy with no religion?

We all know that the answer is 'of course not.' Why would it have been?

I see double standards

Yes, so do I.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well let me ask you, would the story have been posted here if it was a white guy with no religion?

We all know that the answer is 'of course not.' Why would it have been?
Yes, so do I.

Lol that isnt the point...dont go out of context...k thnx!
What u said earlier still backfired on u.
Btw, nuthing i said included double standards.
it was only regarding what u said.

[Keltoi]

Gary was eluding to the same point I was attempting to make, which is that the only reason there is so much "outrage" on this forum is because the guy happened to be Iranian-American. This sort of stuff happens every day to drunk frat guys, unruly basketball fans, guys who flash a football game, etc. This isn't some premeditated act of racism against the poor abused Muslims. It was a police overreaction that happens about once an hour in the U.S. Not saying it isn't a bad deal...but c'mon.

[Muslim Thinker]

Gary was eluding to the same point I was attempting to make, which is that the only reason there is so much "outrage" on this forum is because the guy happened to be Iranian-American. This sort of stuff happens every day to drunk frat guys, unruly basketball fans, guys who flash a football game, etc. This isn't some premeditated act of racism against the poor abused Muslims. It was a police overreaction that happens about once an hour in the U.S. Not saying it isn't a bad deal...but c'mon.

I dont think anyone disagreed with you.

[GARY]

Lol that isnt the point...dont go out of context...k thnx!
What u said earlier still backfired on u.

Pardon? Let's look back. First Keltoi said,

Would this even be discussed on this forum if the kid wasn't an "Iranian-American" student? I realize this is a Muslim forum, but by creating a thread of this nature one is led to believe this happened because the kid was Iranian-American, and haven't seen any evidence to support this supposed racial component.

Then I said,

No, it would not have been discussed. The actual racial assumption here, is that he was a muslim. Is it correct to assume that any person associated with Iran is muslim? Obviously, the connection being made to the relevance of this forum, is that he is muslim. But is he?
Tsk, Tsk. Preconceived notions are the roots of racial hatred and violence.

And then I said,

Originally Posted by GARY
If you would like to post evidence of my racist tendancies I would be pleased to answer the charges. If not it would be proper to not make unfounded allegations toward other members.

Then you said,

I suggest u do the same. Not everyone here would think its posted cuz the student might have been Muslim. Your kinda generalizing. Talk about preconceived notions. I see double standards ;) I cant speak for anyone else, but i was definitely wasnt thinking it.
Btw, im only referring to the second sentence of ur post.

Anyways, back on topic :hiding:

And I responded with,

Well let me ask you, would the story have been posted here if it was a white guy with no religion?

We all know that the answer is 'of course not.' Why would it have been?

Which leads us to,

Lol that isnt the point...dont go out of context...k thnx!
What u said earlier still backfired on u.

So, to respond to your attention to me my little stalker, I will start with

Not everyone here would think its posted cuz the student might have been Muslim.

. I did not state that everyone here thought this, my statement was that that is what the original poster of the thread was thinking. Certainly some others also thought the same though.

What u said earlier still backfired on u.

This part I just don't understand.

Lol that isnt the point...

I am a little confused? What IS the point? And why are you following me?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Because u make useless comments. my point was, although u think we cared cuz it was possibly about a Muslim, that ISNT true. Kapeesh?
You stated we have pre conceived notions and i said I dont think like that so ur makin assumptions. Thats why i said "double standards." Do i need to repeat myself or have u finally gotten it?
I'm not following u. Dont get paranoid my friend.

[GARY]

Because u make useless comments. my point was, although u think we cared cuz it was possibly about a Muslim, that ISNT true. Kapeesh?
You stated we have pre conceived notions and i said I dont think like that so ur makin assumptions. Thats why i said "double standards." Do i need to repeat myself or have u finally gotten it?
I'm not following u. Dont get paranoid my friend.

? You have a little trouble with basic communication? Once again, I did not state that anyone as a group thought anything. I said that the original poster did. And surely some others from statements made after.

I wish that you could grasp this simple idea.

Anyway, you have distracted me with this pointless tangent long enough, and I doubt there is anything left to say about it that even remotely relates to the thread.

So, on to the thread topic.

Muslim Thinker stated after that it now seems that the kid may have actually been less innocent than first thought.
Even with this information, we still don't really know. But it does make one realize that things are not always as they seem.

[aamirsaab]

........Anyways, back on topic.

In leicester england, regent college, a slightly similar inccident happened (and often does happen) where a student doesn't have his library card and is asked to leave the premises.

On refusal of this, a security guard is called who, being a 6'9 onwards, is usually enough to intimidate, just with his size, a student to get out of the library. If his size is not intimidation enough, he tells them to get out - most students do so but some kick up a fuss. On this occasion, the library staff issue a warning system. Once a student has a certain level of warning, he/she is expelled from the college.

No voltage. No pain. No lawsuit.

That's how it's done.

[soulsociety]

Even if he is a troublemaker, you don't taser someone like that.

[GARY]

Even if he is a troublemaker, you don't taser someone like that.

Why not? Serves him right, don't you think? Teach him not to be such a jerk. Wasting valuable law enforcement time. What if somebody was in real trouble somewhere else needing help, and this jerk is tying them up with his "look at me the martyr" routine?

Zap him again I say.

[Muezzin]

Why not? Serves him right, don't you think? Teach him not to be such a jerk. Wasting valuable law enforcement time. What if somebody was in real trouble somewhere else needing help, and this jerk is tying them up with his "look at me the martyr" routine?

Zap him again I say.

By that logic, I'd be able to temporarily ban anyone I wanted to simply because they got on my nerves rather than because they broke a rule. I'd have to think twice before becoming so mean-spirited.

I still think they should have just cuffed him and simply dragged him out.

[GARY]

By that logic, I'd be able to temporarily ban anyone I wanted to simply because they got on my nerves rather than because they broke a rule. I'd have to think twice before becoming so mean-spirited.

I still think they should have just cuffed him and simply dragged him out.

He did break rules though. He was also looking to play the martyr role. He got exactly what he wanted.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

He did break rules though.

Since when has not showing your library card been a crime worthy of repeated electric shock? (rapists and murderers get a jail sentence, but a student without a library card gets 200 volts?!) The UCPD are clearly in the wrong here as the mere intimidation of 4 officers would have been more than enough for the student to leave (I don't know about you, but if 4 UCPDs come up to me and say move, I move) - which he would have done if the UCPDs hadn't started shocking the crap outta him. Infact, during the zapping, the student was actually out of the library, sure he pretty much crawled his way out, but I guess being shocked several times kind of does that to you.

He was also looking to play the martyr role.

Oh come on.

He got exactly what he wanted.

What, electronic convulsive therapy?

[GARY]

:sl:

Since when has not showing your library card been a crime worthy of repeated electric shock? (rapists and murderers get a jail sentence, but a student without a library card gets 200 volts?!) The UCPD are clearly in the wrong here as the mere intimidation of 4 officers would have been more than enough for the student to leave (I don't know about you, but if 4 UCPDs come up to me and say move, I move) - which he would have done if the UCPDs hadn't started shocking the crap outta him. Infact, during the zapping, the student was actually out of the library, sure he pretty much crawled his way out, but I guess being shocked several times kind of does that to you.


Oh come on.


What, electronic convulsive therapy?

You really should read through the thread before commenting. Try reading post #42 by Muslim Thinker, and follow the links in the other posts. It has been established that he was looking for trouble. And then Muslim Thinker's post #45,

My Muslim brother said that the Iranian had a reputation for being a trouble maker and that he's constantly paranoid of racial profiling.

. It may come as a surprise to you, but in most countries you are obligated by law to co-operate with authorities. Telling them to "**** off" as he did, is hardly co-operating.

rapists and murderers get a jail sentence, but a student without a library card gets 200 volts?!)

Actually, tazers are usually a minimum of around 50,000 volts if I am not mistaken.

The UCPD are clearly in the wrong here as the mere intimidation of 4 officers would have been more than enough for the student to leave (I don't know about you, but if 4 UCPDs come up to me and say move, I move)

Most people would move. But believe it, there are a few people around that are not like most people. There are some people that will resist just to be an ass.

He was also looking to play the martyr role.

Oh come on.

What's the problem? Young muslim men glorify the idea of being a martyr. They blow themselves up to inflict damage on the enemy. You think it is not possible that this guy would take the relatively small sacrifice to "prove" that the authorities are racist and anti-muslim?

I say go to his house and shock him again at home, the jerk.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

You really should read through the thread before commenting. Try reading post #42 by Muslim Thinker, and follow the links in the other posts. It has been established that he was looking for trouble. And then Muslim Thinker's post #45,

Done so. I know plenty of people who are looking for trouble, but it doesn't mean I go psycho on them and start "showing off my power". Maybe it's because I have something called a brain.

It may come as a surprise to you, but in most countries you are obligated by law to co-operate with authorities. Telling them to "**** off" as he did, is hardly co-operating.

I agree, but is shocking him until he is on the floor really going to make him cooperate? They dragged him out at the end anyway.

Actually, tazers are usually a minimum of around 50,000 volts if I am not mistaken.

That'd kill a rhino, let alone a student. Even on the lowest setting, it's still torture.

Most people would move. But believe it, there are a few people around that are not like most people. There are some people that will resist just to be an ass.

Oh I agree on this. Again though, it's not justification to volt someone into submbission.

What's the problem? Young muslim men glorify the idea of being a martyr. They blow themselves up to inflict damage on the enemy.

With all due respect, the iranian student did no such thing. If you wanted a comparison, it'd be a civilian taunting at a tank and then getting shelled by it for his troubles.

You think it is not possible that this guy would take the relatively small sacrifice to "prove" that the authorities are racist and anti-muslim?

The only thing the student proved was that those "cops" were not doing their job properly. Even several other students in the video said as much.

I say go to his house and shock him again at home, the jerk.

That'd be a crime. Worthy of say, 50,000 volts.

[Muezzin]

I say go to his house and shock him again at home, the jerk.

So trespass and assault are okay if the guy you're hurting is a 'jerk'?

Anyhow, turns out our friendly neighbourhood trigger-happy rent-a-cop was once recommended for disimissal.

Still, at least he's willing to explain himself to the students.

[GARY]

Actually, tazers are usually a minimum of around 50,000 volts if I am not mistaken.

That'd kill a rhino, let alone a student. Even on the lowest setting, it's still torture.

Voltage does not kill. Current kills. You can be struck with any voltage and not be killed if no current flows through your body.

0.1 to 0.2 amps through the chest will kill.

Tazers have an electronic circuit that is current limiting. They are designed to produce very high voltage with very low current.

[GARY]

I followed the link to the LA Times, and then further to some coverage of the outcry of the students at UCLA about the 'excessive force'.
Some people have to cry about everything.

Whiners should get back to studying, instead of wasting their parents hard earned money on defending a troublemaker.