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root
11-19-2006, 10:26 AM
The more we find out about how the brain works, the less room there seems to be for personal choice and responsibility


In 2003, the Archives of Neurology carried a startling clinical report. A middle aged man with no history of misdemeanour began to stash child pornography and sexually molest his 8-year-old stepdaughter. Placed in the court system, his sexual behaviour became increasingly compulsive. Eventually, after repeatedly complaining of headaches and vertigo, he was sent for a brain scan that revealed a large but benign tumour in the frontal area of his brain invading the septum and hypothalmus - regions known to science to regulate sexual behaviour.

After removal of the tumour, his sexual interests returned to normal. Months later, his sexual focus on young girls rekindled, and a new scan revealed that bits of the tissue missed in surgery had grown into a sizeable tumour. Surgery once again restored his behavioural profile to "normal".

This case renders concrete the issue of free will. Did the man have free will? Was he responsible for his behaviour? Can a tumour usurp ones free will?

Nueroscience, and behavioural biology more generally are gradually revealing the mechanisms that make us who we are: how we make decisions and control our impulses, how our genes shape our social desires and how our reward system adapts in response to satisfying experiences. Wew know for example that maternal off-spring attachment in mammals is mediated bythe peptide oxytocin released in the brains of both mother and child during lactation and cuddling. Oxytocin binds to neurons and the reward pathways record and reinforce the interaction. Mate attachment in females is also mediated by oxytocin, and in males by a similar peptide, vasopressin.

In non-human mammals, the density of peptide binding sites in the brain predicts whether a species is monogamous or polygamous. Male prairie voles with lots of vasopressin binding sites are monogamous while montane voles, with few are promiscuous. What determines the binding sites? Genes. Granting the effects of cultural complexity, something similar probably holds for humans too.

As neuroscience uncovers the mechanisms regulating choice, we cannot help but wonder if anyone truly chooses anything
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------
11-19-2006, 01:28 PM
:sl:

We've got free will. At least us Muslims believe we have. Dunno bout the rest :rollseyes

Safe. :peace:

:w:
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Abdul Fattah
11-22-2006, 03:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
The more we find out about how the brain works, the less room there seems to be for personal choice and responsibility
I'm inclined to dismiss this quote on the grounds of bias. Allow me to explain why. We know almost nothing about how the brain works from a causal point of view. For example let's talk about how we have started mapping areas of the brain. They hook a person up to a device measuring brain activity, then they trigger certain emotions in that person or make him perform certain tasks. The areas with high brain activity are then obviously correlate to corresponding emotion/thought/task. However. We do not know how it works. Does the area become active due to the emotion or is it the other way around? What amount of control can free will have over that process? Can our free will trigger another process that counters it (if we would desire so)? Now I understand that for an atheist or an agnostic it might be easier to assume that the physiological process in the brain triggers the corresponding "feeling". However such an assumption would be biased by the belief that there is no soul, and hence there can be no free will. Since without a soul, the brain is nothing more then a set of physical actions and reactions. But the truth is we simply know to little to make such an assumption or to answer any of those earlier posed questions. Personally I'd say there's still plenty of room for free will.

In 2003, the Archives of Neurology carried a startling clinical report. A middle aged man with no history of misdemeanor began to stash child pornography and sexually molest his 8-year-old stepdaughter. Placed in the court system, his sexual behavior became increasingly compulsive. Eventually, after repeatedly complaining of headaches and vertigo, he was sent for a brain scan that revealed a large but benign tumor in the frontal area of his brain invading the septum and hypothalamus - regions known to science to regulate sexual behavior. After removal of the tumour, his sexual interests returned to normal. Months later, his sexual focus on young girls rekindled, and a new scan revealed that bits of the tissue missed in surgery had grown into a sizeable tumour. Surgery once again restored his behavioural profile to "normal".
In this specific case it is indeed very likely that his unnatural behavior was cause to the malfunctioning due to the tumor, and that this made it extremely difficult for this person to fight certain urges. However you have to realize that this is a exception and the majority of child offenders do not have such a tumor and do seem to be acting on their free will.

I'd like to point out different neuro-psychological researches who seem to point out that emotions can be addicting. Like the work of Jim Pfaus that illustrates how lustful sex will trigger an increase in the levels of serotonin, oxytocin and vasopressin. He further suggests these induce a state similar to the one created by taking opiates. Now this is very interesting because as we all know a person addicted to opiates might feel that he has no choice and that he simply must take his drugs to go on in a strict causal way. However the thousands of courage people who have fought their addiction cold turkey -and won the battle- have proven that this addiction -just like any other addiction- can be overcome by nothing more then free will. So that suggests the same is true for emotions and the urges that they create.

This case renders concrete the issue of free will. Did the man have free will? Was he responsible for his behaviour? Can a tumour usurp ones free will?
Well like I said, in this specific case it might be very likely that his free will was undermined by this tumor. But I would be extremely careful in extrapolating this to the minds of the general population and to assume that there is little or no free will for mankind; since this seems to be an exceptional case.

In non-human mammals, the density of peptide binding sites in the brain predicts whether a species is monogamous or polygamous. Male prairie voles with lots of vasopressin binding sites are monogamous while montane voles, with few are promiscuous. What determines the binding sites? Genes. Granting the effects of cultural complexity, something similar probably holds for humans too.
Yes, well it seems two points need to be raised here. The first is: in these animals it seems that the levels of these enzymes is set by specie. Certain species have high levels by default where others have low by nature. But nobody here ever suggested that animals have free will.
The second point, in human beings it seems that certain people have high levels while other have low levels of this enzyme. So apparently this is not simply determined by default for our specie as it is with animals. Which leaves me thinking there are two possibilities:
1. The levels are created by our free will, they are not a determent factor but a result. So it is a mechanism for the mind to control the body. Just as the levels of this enzyme in animals is determined by divine will (which also matches up with religion).
2. A more atheistic view: it's a mechanism for the body to control the mind and it's determined by luck of the draw.

Mind over matter or matter over mind? I think for now, in the absence of further evidence that we will be forced to "agree to disagree".
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-22-2006, 03:25 PM
Peace,

no matter how the brain works doesnt it seem as though every action which the brain decides was conciously affected by the individual.

What it sounds like these scientists are wondering about is that ever since we were born our brain was created in a certain way so as to prevent us from choosing how we think and act, basically they're saying we're all robots and our brains are programmed.

Interesting thought but in all honesty what happened to that feeling of good and bad aswell as resistance, sure the argument may arise that the brain affects our resisting capability but you dont always have to listen to your brain. And thats my final argument.


Peace



PS: thanks for this interesting thread, its been a while
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Woodrow
11-22-2006, 03:48 PM
We do have free will. But we do have to exercise it. We can always be cautious and carefully weigh our decisions and choices, in doing so we become more adept at doing so. Sadly, too many people become lazy, and choose to function simply on the basis of fulfilling physical needs. Too much of that and the person will find themselves operating on "auto-pilot" with not much more control than animals that survive only by filling immediate needs.

I personaly believe that if a person stops exercising free will they will loose it and live on "conditioning" not choices. The beauty of Islam is we are made very much aware of our choices and all actions require a deliberate choice. It is not for the benefit of Allah(swt) that we say "Bismillalahi ir Rahman ir Raheem" before begining everything. That jolts our conciousness and all things we do are done with a concious choice. That simple act keeps us aware of our choices and assures us of having free choice.
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