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IzakHalevas
11-19-2006, 04:55 PM
The descriptions of torture and human sacrifice in the anti-Semitic blood libels run contrary to many of the actual teachings of Judaism.

Most obviously, the Ten Commandments in the Jewish Torah forbid murder. In addition, the use of blood (human or otherwise) in cooking is prohibited by Kashrut, or Kosher dietary laws. Blood and other discharges from the human body are ritually unclean (Lev 15). Blood from slaughtered animals may not be consumed, and must be drained out of the animal and buried (Lev 17:12-13). According to the book of Leviticus, blood from sacrificed animals may only be placed on the altar of the Great Temple in Jerusalem (which no longer existed at the time of any of these alleged events). Furthermore, humans, since they do not have cloven hooves nor do they chew the cud, are not considered a Kosher animal.

While animal sacrifice was part of the practice of ancient Judaism, the Tanakh (Old Testament) and Jewish teaching portray human sacrifice as one of the evils that separated the pagans of Canaan from the Hebrews (Deut 12:31, 2 Kings 16:3). Jews were prohibited from engaging in these rituals and were punished for doing so (Ex 34:15, Lev 20:2, Deut 18:12, Jer 7:31). In fact, ritual cleanliness for priests prohibited even being in the same room as a human corpse (Lev 21:11).

Proponents of the blood libel, such as British fascist Arnold Leese ("Jewish Ritual Murder" 1938) and sympathetic contemporaries, claim that proof of ritual murder is contained within scripture. Such evidence is the product of distorting the source material or ignoring its context. The neo-Nazi site JRBooks (White supremist/Nazi site) lists Psalm 137 as proof that Jews engaged in ritual child murder, citing the line "Happy is he who takes their little ones and dashes them against the stones" . However, the correct rendering of line 137:9 is "How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!" and the line must be read in context. The whole Psalm refers to Jewish tribulations at the hands of Babylon and ends with a curse against the oppressor. Only deliberate distortion could make the line an exhortation to murder gentile children.

Blood libel stories have appeared a number of times in the state-sponsored media of a number of Arab and Muslim nations, their television shows and websites. Books alleging occurrences of Jewish blood libel are not uncommon.

The Matzah Of Zion was written by the Syrian Defense Minister, Mustafa Tlass in 1983. The book concentrates on two issues: renewed ritual murder accusations against the Jews in the Damascus Affair of 1840, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. On October 21, 2002, the London based Arabic paper Al-Hayat reported that the book was undergoing its eighth reprint and was being translated into English, French, and Italian.
In 2001 an Egyptian film company produced and aired a film called Horseman Without a Horse, partly based on Tlass's book. The book was cited at a United Nations conferences in 1991 by a Syrian delegate.
Multiple branches of the Syrian government, including the Damascus Police Command and the Department of Antiquities and Museums, the security ministry, the culture ministry, created an anti-Semitic television TV series called Ash-Shatat ("The Diaspora".) This series originally aired in Syria and in Lebanon late 2003, and was broadcast by Al-Manar, a satellite television network owned by Hezbollah. This TV series is based on the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, shows the Jewish people as engaging in a conspiracy to rule the world, and presents Jews as people who murder Christian children, drain their blood, and use this blood to bake matzah. [1] [2] [3]
On December 20, 2005, in a discussion with Iranian political analysts aired on Jaam-e Jam 2 Iranian TV, the author of the book The History of the Jews who works for the Tehran Times Dr. Hasan Hanizadeh said in particular:
"Unfortunately, the West has forgotten two horrendous incidents, carried out by the Jews in 19th-century Europe - in Paris and London, to be precise. In 1883, about 150 French children were murdered in a horrible way in the suburbs of Paris, before the Jewish Passover holiday. Later research showed that the Jews had killed them and taken their blood. ... A similar incident took place in London, when many English children were killed by Jewish rabbis. ..."[4]

In a twist on the libel of Jews using blood in matzah, a Passover food, in 2002, a Saudi newspaper [5] claimed that Jews use blood in hamantashen, triangular cookies eaten on the Jewish holiday of Purim. The story celebrated on Purim, recounted in the Book of Esther, takes place in ancient Persia (modern-day Iran).
A 2004 story from Iran speaks of Jewish doctors stealing organs of Palestinian children in Israeli hospitals: [6]
Some Arab writers have condemned these blood libels. The Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram published a series of articles by Osam Al-Baz, a senior advisor to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Amongst other things, Osam Al-Baz explained the origins of the anti-Jewish blood libel. He said that Arabs and Muslims have never been anti-Semitic, as a group, but accepted that a few Arab writers and media figures attack Jews "on the basis of the racist fallacies and myths that originated in Europe". He urged people not to succumb to "myths" such as the blood libel. [7]
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Muslim Thinker
11-19-2006, 05:42 PM
Summary please.
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IzakHalevas
11-19-2006, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Thinker
Summary please.
The "Blood Libel" was invented by anti-semetic, anti-non-Christian, Cathloics, and other Christians, to rile up mobs and create a "Jewphobia" similar to "Islamaphobia". It was prven that the Jews did not "ritually sacrifice children and put them in bread", and it would be against Jewish law to do so.

Muslims now are using this old propoaganda to energize hatred of Jews in their countries.

You can see a brainwashed idiot, who is posting here trying to spread this myth, about Jews.
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YusufNoor
11-19-2006, 06:24 PM
Shalom Izak,

there are misguided people in all religions. even some Israelites took to Baal worship and worse (including sacrificing children). that was thousands of years ago.

look for the best in people, and if we are going to "compete", let's compete in "doing good"!


peace,
yusuf
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IzakHalevas
11-19-2006, 08:56 PM
Israelites took to Baal worship and worse (including sacrificing children). that was thousands of years ago.
That is not a Jewish teaching and the people who worshiped idols, were declared heretics, by G-d and Jews. They were never "Jews". Because they never accepted Torah.
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YusufNoor
11-19-2006, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
That is not a Jewish teaching and the people who worshiped idols, were declared heretics, by G-d and Jews. They were never "Jews". Because they never accepted Torah.
Shalom Izak,

i NEVER meant to imply, and was not implying, that it was a Jewish teaching!

do you argue or disagree that the children of Israel never rejected Hashem/G-d AT ANY TIME in the Torah? (just trying to see what i'm up against here)

my purpose in replying to thread was that, imho, the beginning of the title "do Muslims hate the Jews so much..." is sadly, sadly, sadly pretty accurate. i am often "accused" of "being a Jew" by fellow Muslims, because i strongly feel that this attitude needs to change. well, that and most people thought i WAS a Jew before i became a Muslim!

May the G-d of Abraham allow us to discuss this further! (and May He also guide us!)

peace,

Yusuf
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IzakHalevas
11-19-2006, 09:39 PM
do you argue or disagree that the children of Israel never rejected Hashem/G-d AT ANY TIME in the Torah? (just trying to see what i'm up against here)
Of course they did. But when a Jew choses idol worship, they are breaking one of the three things you chose death over than idol worship. Therefore, when a "child of Israel" worshiped an idol, he became a heretic.
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YusufNoor
11-19-2006, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Of course they did. But when a Jew choses idol worship, they are breaking one of the three things you chose death over than idol worship. Therefore, when a "child of Israel" worshiped an idol, he became a heretic.
Shalom Izak,

Amen brother! i was worried for a moment there!

peace,

yusuf
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Les_Nubian
11-19-2006, 10:04 PM
Why is it that Muslims accept the Jewish prophets, but the Jews don't accept Muhammad? Just like the Christians? Who really hates who here?

I was watching this show just the other day, with these two Jews talking about how awful Muslims are. I was just watching the show because I like watching religious television. I have nothing against Jews, and I really didn't expect to be blatantly insulted like that.

They were just going on and on about how Muslims are ruining the world or something, and we have to beat them, blah blah blah. I have cut down on my television intake as much as I possibly can (someday I won't watch it at all, EVER lol), but I still like to watch religious television like EWTN, etcetera. Just something not morally corupt like everything else on TV.

I was so disgusted at these two arrogant people that I just had to turn off the television. I never knew some Jewish people hated Muslims so much. I didn't anticipate being insulted like that, but hey that's life.
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YusufNoor
11-19-2006, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Why is it that Muslims accept the Jewish prophets, but the Jews don't accept Muhammad? Just like the Christians? Who really hates who here?

I was watching this show just the other day, with these two Jews talking about how awful Muslims are. I was just watching the show because I like watching religious television. I have nothing against Jews, and I really didn't expect to be blatantly insulted like that.

They were just going on and on about how Muslims are ruining the world or something, and we have to beat them, blah blah blah. I have cut down on my television intake as much as I possibly can (someday I won't watch it at all, EVER lol), but I still like to watch religious television like EWTN, etcetera. Just something not morally corupt like everything else on TV.

I was so disgusted at these two arrogant people that I just had to turn off the television. I never knew Jewish people hated Muslims so much. I didn't anticipate being insulted like that, but hey that's life.
Salam sister,

you're not going to judge a whole nation of people by what 2 people said, are you??

i don't think that you can say that the Muslim/Jew hate thing is a one way street! kwim??

MOST of the Muslim men i have met have said "i HATE Jews!". but when i ask if they have ever met any, they ALWAYS say no! :heated:

now, granted, the sisters DO NOT talk this way. they don't hate Jews OR America!! imagine that! :okay:

hating each other will not get us anywhere, and we have WAY more in common with Jews than with atheists or polytheists!

peace,

Yusuf
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IzakHalevas
11-19-2006, 10:20 PM
Why is it that Muslims accept the Jewish prophets, but the Jews don't accept Muhammad? Just like the Christians? Who really hates who here?
Wait, because we do not accept your prophet does this mean that we hate you? Of course not, that is such a dumb thing to say. I don't accept your prophet, big deal, I don't hate someone over that.

I was watching this show just the other day, with these two Jews talking about how awful Muslims are. I was just watching the show because I like watching religious television. I have nothing against Jews, and I really didn't expect to be blatantly insulted like that.
I was watching TV to, and I found many Muslim "Shiekhs" comparing me as a Jew to an ape or pig, many more called me an infidel and said I deserved to die, and they had never even met me! Does this mean that by your logic, these "Shiekhs" represent the whole Muslim religion? Yes. That is why your logic, is at fault.
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YusufNoor
11-19-2006, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Wait, because we do not accept your prophet does this mean that we hate you? Of course not, that is such a dumb thing to say. I don't accept your prophet, big deal, I don't hate someone over that.



I was watching TV to, and I found many Muslim "Shiekhs" comparing me as a Jew to an ape or pig, many more called me an infidel and said I deserved to die, and they had never even met me! Does this mean that by your logic, these "Shiekhs" represent the whole Muslim religion? Yes. That is why your logic, is at fault.
alas, the reason my TV is only hooked to my dvd player...:happy:
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Trumble
11-19-2006, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
I was so disgusted at these two arrogant people that I just had to turn off the television. I never knew some Jewish people hated Muslims so much. I didn't anticipate being insulted like that, but hey that's life.
With respect, and mentioning no names, you don't have to go any further than this forum to find two muslim people who hate Jews just as much. You can condemn Islam for that no more than Judaism for the words of the two you saw on TV.

Why is it that Muslims accept the Jewish prophets, but the Jews don't accept Muhammad? Just like the Christians? Who really hates who here?
Religious differences are no reason for hatred. You all believe in the same God, after all. Just to point out the obvious; if they accepted Mohammed they wouldn't be Jews or Christians, they would be muslims. The main reason for the difference is simply that Mohammed lived after the Jewish and Christian scriptures were written but that is not true in reverse!
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Les_Nubian
11-20-2006, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
Salam sister,

you're not going to judge a whole nation of people by what 2 people said, are you??

i don't think that you can say that the Muslim/Jew hate thing is a one way street! kwim??

MOST of the Muslim men i have met have said "i HATE Jews!". but when i ask if they have ever met any, they ALWAYS say no! :heated:

now, granted, the sisters DO NOT talk this way. they don't hate Jews OR America!! imagine that! :okay:

hating each other will not get us anywhere, and we have WAY more in common with Jews than with atheists or polytheists!

peace,

Yusuf
Well what you just bolded in my response answers your own question. I said THESE TWO. I didn't say ALL JEWS. Please don't put words in my mouth. I just said that I never knew that SOME Jewish people had such passionate hate for Muslims. I guess I was so naive to think that Muslims and Jews were cool. At least that's how it SHOULD be.

Originally Posted by Trumble
With respect, and mentioning no names, you don't have to go any further than this forum to find two muslim people who hate Jews just as much. You can condemn Islam for that no more than Judaism for the words of the two you saw on TV.



Religious differences are no reason for hatred. You all believe in the same God, after all. Just to point out the obvious; if they accepted Mohammed they wouldn't be Jews or Christians, they would be muslims. The main reason for the difference is simply that Mohammed lived after the Jewish and Christian scriptures were written but that is not true in reverse!
Where did I say that I condemned Judaism? Can you quote me and put it in bold and capital letters?

Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Wait, because we do not accept your prophet does this mean that we hate you? Of course not, that is such a dumb thing to say. I don't accept your prophet, big deal, I don't hate someone over that.



I was watching TV to, and I found many Muslim "Shiekhs" comparing me as a Jew to an ape or pig, many more called me an infidel and said I deserved to die, and they had never even met me! Does this mean that by your logic, these "Shiekhs" represent the whole Muslim religion? Yes. That is why your logic, is at fault.
Did I ever say that you not accepting our prophet meant that you hated me as a Muslim? Can you bold that? What I am saying is that if MUSLIMS HATE JEWS so much, then why do we accept the JEWISH PROPHETS? If this is a teaching of Islam to hate Jews, then why do we accept the Jewish prophets?
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YusufNoor
11-20-2006, 01:42 AM
Les_Nubian wrote:
Well what you just bolded in my response answers your own question. I said THESE TWO. I didn't say ALL JEWS. Please don't put words in my mouth. I just said that I never knew that SOME Jewish people had such passionate hate for Muslims. I guess I was so naive to think that Muslims and Jews were cool. At least that's how it SHOULD be.
Astaghfirullah sister, i wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. just putting in an opinion on the subject. i find MANY Muslim men with a "passionate hate" for Jewish people!

BUT, like i also said, i don't find that problem with Muslimahs.

i don't think you're naive, and i definitely agree that Muslims and Jews being cool is how it SHOULD be!

however, it seems like maybe the problem is ...men...imsad
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Les_Nubian
11-20-2006, 01:50 AM
ok YusufNoor, we're cool. Just had to clear that up. ;)
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Trumble
11-20-2006, 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian

Where did I say that I condemned Judaism? Can you quote me and put it in bold and capital letters?
Why is it that Muslims accept the Jewish prophets, but the Jews don't accept Muhammad? Just like the Christians? Who really hates who here?
Will just the bold do?
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Muslim Knight
11-20-2006, 02:50 AM
How can Arabs be anti-Semitic when they themselves are part of the Semitic people? Prior to the creation of Zionist state of Israel the Arabs have been pretty much hospitable to the Jews, inviting them to live with for at least 1,000 years! Remember the Inquisition? The Muslims worked together with Jews to escape the persecution of the Spanish Christian Inquisitors. Muslims and Jews have together been called "Marranos" (dogs) by Isabel's honchos during that point of time.

But the reasons for Arabs and Muslims to hate the Jews today? Other than having their land by taken force and their children shot to death they have no other reasons. It's not racial hate and it's not Anti-Semitism because even the Arabs are Semites. It could be that this hate originated from the Jews themselves. I quote Imran N. Hosein in his book Jerusalem in the Quran;

[PIE]One of the reasons which explains the Rabbi's hostility to the Ishmaelite people and his hostility to their claim to Jerusalem is of course, the fact that the Book of Genesis in the Torah declared of Ishmael that he was;

"... a wild ass of a man; his hand against everyman, and everyone's hand against him." (Genesis 16:12)[/PIE]

The Jews often claim that the Arabs are so hell-bent on eliminating them and call the Arabs snakes. But they never tell you what their reason for doing so because it will let the cat out of the bag.

That cat is having taken the Arabs' land by force and killing their children. Prior to the creation of Israel the Arabs have nothing against the Jews.
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IzakHalevas
11-20-2006, 03:19 AM
Jews do not recongnize Arabs or Muslims as descendants of Ishmael, therefore, our Torah does not say Muslims are that way because we view you as seperate.
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Les_Nubian
11-20-2006, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Will just the bold do?
Wow that's funny, I'm still not seeing where I CONDEMNED JUDAISM.

Maybe you should italicize it for me.
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Trumble
11-20-2006, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Wow that's funny, I'm still not seeing where I CONDEMNED JUDAISM.
That's how I interpreted the sentence I highlighted, as a suggestion that it is Jews (and Christians) who 'hate' muslims, as opposed to the other way around. I do appreciate that the context was more rhetorical than a serious suggestion.

If that interpretation was incorrect, I apologise.
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Les_Nubian
11-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Look, I have absolutely nothing against Jews. I know that there are plenty of Muslims out there who hate Jews, as there are plenty of Jews who hate Muslims. I know that they are not representing the entire Jewish nation or the entire Muslim population. Obviously, because I am a Muslim with nothing but respect for Judaism. Seriously. I have nothing against any religion.

But I am honestly sick of people who claim to be so "religious" and "pious", but then go on national television and bash an entire group of people. Then they act like they want to "open up dialogue". I'm sorry, but you don't slap someone in the face and then say "let's talk". That's now how it works.

And I accept your apology Trumble. :(

:P
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Skillganon
11-20-2006, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
The "Blood Libel" was invented by anti-semetic, anti-non-Christian, Cathloics, and other Christians, to rile up mobs and create a "Jewphobia" similar to "Islamaphobia". It was prven that the Jews did not "ritually sacrifice children and put them in bread", and it would be against Jewish law to do so.

Muslims now are using this old propoaganda to energize hatred of Jews in their countries.

You can see a brainwashed idiot, who is posting here trying to spread this myth, about Jews.
Funny you say that, I never have met any. I must be reading the wrong book's. ^o)
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Fishman
11-20-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Jews do not recongnize Arabs or Muslims as descendants of Ishmael, therefore, our Torah does not say Muslims are that way because we view you as seperate.
:sl:
Jews and Arabs are very similar linguistically, genetically and 'racially'. Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic are all semetic languages, and whoever denies that is dening obvious facts.

Neo-nazis hate Israel because they hate Jews. Muslim extremists hate Jews because they hate Israel. It's not the same phenomenon, although they are both still very bad.
:w:
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جوري
11-20-2006, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Jews do not recongnize Arabs or Muslims as descendants of Ishmael, therefore, our Torah does not say Muslims are that way because we view you as seperate.
lol! ...
we view you as seperate too especially those of you of Ashkenazic descent... and that is something that is actually visible to the naked eye...
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Muslim Knight
11-21-2006, 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Jews do not recongnize Arabs or Muslims as descendants of Ishmael, therefore, our Torah does not say Muslims are that way because we view you as seperate.
Ashkenazi Jews aren't descendants of Isaac either. Nor Israel. They're just Europeans who converted into Judaism. What makes their claim to Jerusalem legitimate?
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IzakHalevas
11-21-2006, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Ashkenazi Jews aren't descendants of Isaac either. Nor Israel. They're just Europeans who converted into Judaism. What makes their claim to Jerusalem legitimate?
Actually your claim is a myth. I will explain:

Apart from the historical evidence proving that a vast majority of present-day Jews did not descend from the Khazars, there is now also genetic evidence. Among the Jews there is the class of priests called Cohanim who served in the Temple and who now carry surnames such as "Cohen" and many variations on that name. Cohanim comprise of about 5% of the male Jewish population. There are strict rules of marriage for the Cohanim and the title is only passed through the male line. Also, converts cannot become Cohanim (but their children will be if they have a Cohen as a father). The priestly line is descended directly from the Aaron of the bible so it is expected that all Cohanim would carry some common genetic features.

In recently published work (1) it was found that 54% of self-identified Cohanim had common genetic features that were revealed by analysis of their DNA. Specifically, a component of the Y-chromosone, an allele YAP+ DYS19, was identified that showed up only 1.5% of the time in Cohanim but 18.4% of the time in a random selection of non-Cohanim Jews and there were other genetic differences apparent as well. (The same differences were apparent for both Sepphardic and Askhenazic Jews also proving a common origin pre-dating a later split between the two groups.)

The large number of Cohanim among present-day Jews and the fact that they have a common genetic lineage traceable to Israel at the time of the Temple, demonstrates that modern Jews come from a population pool derived from Israel and not from the Khazars. The Khazars could not have developed their own lineage of Cohanim anyway, since being a Cohen is a male-inherited status which converts (the Khazars) could not have obtained.

(1) Skorecki K; Selig S; Blazer S; Bradman R; Bradman N; Waburton PJ; Ismajlowicz M; Hammer MF (1997) Y chromosomes of Jewish priests. Nature, 385:32.

A genetic marker is a variation in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA, known as a mutation. Mutations which occur within genes -- a part of the DNA which codes for a protein usually cause a malfunction or disease, and is lost due to selection in succeeding generations. However, mutations found in so-called "non-coding regions" of the DNA tend to persist.

Since the (male) Y chromosome consists almost entirely of non-coding DNA, it would tend to accumulate mutations. Since it is passed from father to son without recombination, the genetic information on a Y chromosome of a man living today is basically the same as that of his ancient male ancestors, except for the rare mutations that occur along the hereditary line. A combination of these neutral mutations, known as a haplotype, can serve as a genetic signature of a man's male ancestry. Maternal genealogies are also being studied by means of the m-DNA (mitrocondrial DNA), which is inherited only from the mother.

Dr. Skorecki then made contact with Professor Michael Hammer of the University of Arizona, a leading researcher in molecular genetics and a pioneerin Y chromosome research. Professor Hammer uses DNA analysis to study the history of populations, their origins and migrations. His previous research included work on the origins of the Native American Indians and the development of the Japanese people.

A study was undertaken to test the hypothesis. If there is a common ancestor, the Cohanim should have common genetic markers at a higher frequency than the general Jewish population.

In the first study, as reported in the prestigious British science journal, "Nature" (January 2, 1997), 188 Jewish males were asked to contribute some cheek cells from which their DNA was extracted for study. Participants from Israel, England and North America were asked to specify whether
they were a Cohen, Levi or Israelite, and to identify their family background.

The results of the analysis of the Y chromosome markers of the Cohanim and non-Cohanim were indeed significant. A particular marker (YAP-), was detected in 98.5 percent of the Cohanim, and in a significantly lower percentage of non-Cohanim.

In a second study, Dr. Skorecki and associates gathered more DNA samples and expanded their selection of Y chromosome markers. Solidifying their hypothesis of the common ancestor of Cohanim, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers were found in 97 of the 106 Cohanimtested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.

The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazic and Sephardic Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a
time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years, the approximate time of the exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron the Cohen.

TRIBAL DESCENT
Professor Hammer was recently in Israel for the Jewish Genome Conference.
He confirmed that his findings are consistent: over 80 percent of self-identified Cohanim have a common set of markers. The finding that less than one-third of the non-Cohen Jews who were tested possess these markers is not surprising to the geneticists. "Jewishness" is not defined genetically. Other Y chromosomes can enter the Jewish gene pool through conversion or through
a non-Jewish father. Jewish status is determined by the mother. Tribe membership follows the father's family line.

Calculations based on the high rate of genetic similarity of today's Cohanim resulted in the highest "paternity-certainty" rate ever recordedin population genetics studies -- a scientific testimony to family faithfulness.

Wider genetic studies of diverse present-day Jewish communities show a remarkable genetic cohesiveness. Jews from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, North Africa and European Ashkenazim all cluster together with other Semitic groups, with their origin in the Middle East.
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IzakHalevas
11-21-2006, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Ashkenazi Jews aren't descendants of Isaac either. Nor Israel. They're just Europeans who converted into Judaism. What makes their claim to Jerusalem legitimate?
First off, "Ashkenaz" Jews do not make up the majority of Israeli's, actually only about 30% are Ashenaz Jews. The rest are "Mizrakhi" or "Sefard" Jews who you would think are Arabs.

The Jewish presence in "the Holy Land" -- at times tenuous -- persisted throughout its bloody history. In fact, the Jewish claim -- whether Arab-born or European-born Jew -- to the land now called Palestine does not depend on a two-thousand-year-old promise. Buried beneath the propaganda -- which has it that Jews "returned" to the Holy Land after two thousand years of separation, where they found crowds of "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" -- is the bald fact that the Jews are indigenous people on that land who never left, but who have continuously stayed on their "Holy Land." Not only were there the little-known Oriental Jewish communities in adjacent Arab lands, but there had been an unceasing strain of "Oriental" or "Palestinian" Jews in "Palestine" for millennia.1

The Reverend James Parkes, an authority on Jewish/non-Jewish relations inthe Middle East, assessed the Zionists' "real title deeds" in 1949.2

It was, perhaps, inevitable that Zionists should look back to the heroic period of the Maccabees and Bar-Cochba, but their real title deeds were written by the less dramatic but equally heroic endurance of those who had maintained the Jewish presence in The Land all through the centuries, and in spite of every discouragement. This page of Jewish history found no place in the constant flood of Zionist propaganda.... The omission allowed the anti-Zionists, whether Jewish, Arab, or European, to paint an entirely false picture of the wickedness of Jewry trying to re-establish a two thousand-year-old claim to the country, indifferent to everything that had happened in the intervening period. It allowed a picture of The Land as a territory which had once been "Jewish," but which for many centuries had been "Arab." In point of fact any picture of a total change of population is false....

It was only "politically" that the Jews lost their land, as Parkes reminded us. They never abandoned it physically, nor did they renounce their claim to their nation -- the only continuous claim that exists. The Jews never submitted to assimilation into the various victorious populations even after successive conquerors had devastated the Jewish organizational structure. But, more important, despite becoming "much enfeebled in numbers and deprived both of political and social leaders and of skilled craftsmen,"3 the Jews, in addition to their spiritual roots, managed to remain in varying numbers physically at all times on the land.

Thus, despite "physical violence against Jews and pagans" by the post-Roman Christians, more than forty Jewish communities survived and could be traced in the sixth century -- "twelve towns on the coast, in the Negev, and east of the Jordan [land ihat was part of the Palestine Mandate, called Transjordan in 1922, and declared the "Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan" only thirty-odd years ago] and thirty-one villages in Galilee and in the Jordan Valley."4

In A.D. 438 the Jews from Galilee optimistically declared, "the end of the exile of our people" when the Empress Eudocia allowed the Jews to pray again at their holy temple site.5 Recent archaeological discoveries determine that in A.D. 614 the Jews fought along with the Persian invaders of Palestine, "overwhelmed the Byzantine garrison in Jerusalem," and controlled that city for five years.6 By the time the Arabs conquered the land two decades later, the Jews "had suffered three centuries of Christian intolerance, and monkish violence had been spasmodic during at least half of that period."7 And the Jews hopefully welcomed the Arab conquerors.

The Muslim Arabs who entered seventh-century Jerusalem found a strong Jewish identity. At that time, "we have evidence that Jews lived in all parts of the country and on both sides of the Jordan, and that they dwelt in both the towns and the villages, practicing both agriculture and various handicrafts"* A number of Jews lived in Lydda and Ramle-which have been identified by modem propaganda and even by more serious documents as historically "purely Arab" towns. "Large and important communities" of Jews lived "in such places as Ascalon, Caesarea and above all Gaza, which the Jews ... had made a kind of capital [when] ... they were excluded from Jerusalem.'"8

Jericho was home to many Jews9 -- the seventh-century Jewish refugees from Khaibar in Arabia among them. Khaibar had been a thriving Jewish community to the north of Mecca and Medina. After the Jews had "defended their forts and mansions with signal heroism," the Prophet Muhammad had "visited upon his beaten enemy inhuman atrocities," and "by the mass massacre of... men, women and children," the Prophet of Islam exterminated "completely" two Arabian Jewish tribes.10

The consequences of the war were catastrophic. For centuries the Jews of Khaibar had led a life of freedom, peace, labor and trade; now they had to bow under the yoke of slavery and degradation. They had prided themselves on the purity of their family life; now their women and daughters were distributed among and carried away by the conquerors.11

An Arab "notable" from Medina, who visited the site of hostilities afterward, was quoted by a ninth-century Arab historian:

Before the Moslem occupation, whenever there was a famine in the land, people would go to Khaibar.... The Jews always had fruit, and their springs yielded a plentiful supply of water. After the conquest of Khaibar, the Jews were said to design evil schemes against the Moslems. But hunger pressed us to go to their fields.... We found the landscape completely changed. We met none of the rich Khaibar landowners, but only destitute farmers everywhere ... When we moved on to Kuteiba we felt much relieved....12

The Jewish survivors from the area surrounding Khaibar were expelled from "the Arabian Peninsula" when the extent of the Muslim conquest was sufficient to add enough Arab farmers and replace the detested Jews. [See Chapter 8] Based on the Prophet Muhammad's theory, Caliph Omar implemented the decree "Let not two religions co-exist within the Arabian Peninsula."13

The Arab theologians' 1968 conference, 1,300 years later, continued to justify the Khaibar extermination of its Jews. One participant explained: ... Omar ... got experience that the Jews were the callers and instigators of the sedition at any time and everywhere. He purified Arabia from them. Most of them dwelt at Khaibar and its neighborhood. That was because he was informed that the Prophet said while he was dying: "Never do two religions exist in Arabia." [Sheikh Abd Allah Al Meshad]14

Another Arab participant at that conference emphazised,

All people want to get rid of the Jews by hook or by crook.... People are not prejudiced against them but the Jewish evil and the various wicked aspects ... are quite clear....

When Bani Qoraiza were punished, an end was put to the Jews of Madina. Those Jews had been the strongest, the richest and the most pernicious and harmful ones. They had been deeply rooted in the society and they had had a high rank and an important status....

Some orientalists ignore the various reasons why the Jews of Khaibar and others were punished.... These orientalists alleged that the invasion of Khaibar was launched because the Prophet wished to reward the Muslims of Hodaibeya and comfort them.... but we have mentioned the most evident reasons of the punishment befalling the Jews. The question of the booty is casual and always subsidiary for waging the wars of the Prophet. It is mentioned in the Verses of the Quran about Jihad [holy war] as a secondary reason for striving against the Unbelievers. [Muhammad Azzah Darwaza]15

The seventh-century Jewish refugees from Khaibar's environs joined the indigenous Jewish population in "Transjordan, especially in Dera'a." In fact, Arabian Jewish exiles settled "as far as the hills of Hebron," but had they not "intermarried" with the established Jewish communities and connected somehow to the "Diaspora centers, they [the Jewish settlements] could hardly have survived as Jewish communities for hundreds of years." A settled Jewish community was present then in the northern Transjordanian city of Hamadan, "or Amatus" -"a city famed for its palms"-in the area that one day would be part of the League of Nations' [See Chapter 12] Mandated "Jewish National Home" in Palestine.16

The Christian Crusaders of the eleventh century were merciless but unsuccessful in their efforts to remove any vestige of Jewish tradition. In 1165, Benjamin of Tudela, the renowned Spanish traveler, found that the "Academy of Jerusalem" had been established at Damascus. Although the Crusaders had almost "wiped out" the Jewish communities of Jerusalem, Acre, Caesarea and Haifa, some Jews remained, and whole "village communities of Galilee survived."

Acre became the seat of a Jewish academy in the thirteenth century. And while "many may have merged themselves into the local population, Christian or Muslim," the Jews "stayed, to share and suffer from the disorder" of the aftermath of the Crusaders' "feudalism,"17 resisting conversion. During the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, "there was a constant trickle of Jewish immigrants into the country ... some from other Islamic territories and especially North Africa."18


Jews from Gaza, Ramle, and Safed were considered the "ideal guides" in the Holy Land in the fourteenth century, as Jacques of Verona, a visiting Christian monk, attested. After the Christian had "noted the long established Jewish community at the foot of Mount Zion, in Jerusalem," he wrote,
A pilgrim who wished to visit ancient forts and towns in the Holy Land would have been unable to locate these, without a good guide who knew the Land well, or without one of the Jews who lived there. The Jews were able to recount the history of these places since this knowledge had been handed down from their forefathers and wise men.
So when I journeyed overseas I often requested and managed to obtain an excellent guide among the Jews who lived there.19
In 1438 a rabbi from Italy became the spiritual leader of the Jewish community in Jerusalem,20 and fifty years afterward, another Italian scholar, Obadiah de Bertinoro, founded the Jerusalem rabbinical school that dealt authoritatively "in rabbinic matters among the Jewish communities of the Islamic world."21

The Jews, meanwhile, were plentiful enough so that in 1486 "a distinguished pilgrim" to the Holy Land, the Dean of Mainz Cathedral, Bernhard von Breidenbach, advised that both Hebron's and Jerusalem's Jews "will treat you in full fidelity -- more so than anyone else in those countries of the unbelievers."22

The "Ishmaelite," or Islamic-bom, Jewish immigration to the Holy Land was prominent, and became intensified after the Spanish Inquisition. The Holy Land's throbbing, spirited Jewish life continued, even in Hebron, where "the prosperous Jewish community ... had been plundered, many Jews killed and the survivors forced to flee" in 1518, three years after Ottoman rule began. By 1540, Hebron's Jewry had recovered and reconstructed its Jewish Quarter, while the first Jewish printing press outside Europe was instituted in Safed in 1563.23

Under Turkish rule the Jews in Jerusalem and in Gaza maintained "cultural and spiritual unity," and Sultan Suleiman I allowed many Jews "to return to the Holy Land." In 1561, "Suleiman gave Tiberias, one of the four Jewish holy cities, to a former 'secret' Jew from Portugal, Don Joseph Nasi, who rebuilt the city and the villages around it." Nasi's efforts attracted Jewish settlement from many areas of the Mediterranean.24 And those "Ishmaelite" Jewish communities that did not or could not make the pilgrimage were nonetheless spiritually attached to their brothers in the Holy Land.


1. See Palestine Royal Commission Report (London, 1937), pp. 2-5, 7, 9, particularly p. 11, para. 23.
2. James Parkes, Whose Land?, A History of the Peoples of Palestine (Harmondsworth, Middlesex, Great Britain: Penguin Books, 1970), p. 266.
3. Ibid., pp. 31, 26.
4. Samuel Katz, Battleground: Fact and Fantasy in Palestine (New York, 1973), p. 88.
5. Avraham Yaari, 1grot Eretz Yisrael (Tel Aviv, 1943), p. 46; see F. Nau, "Sur la synagogue de Rabbat Moab (422), et un mouvement sioniste favorisk par l'imperatrice Eudocie (438), d'apres la vie de Barsauma le Syrien," Journal Asiatique, LIX (1927), pp. 189-192.
6. A. MaIamat, H. Tadmor, M. Stern, S. Safrai, Toledot Am Yisrael Bi'mei Kedem (Tel Aviv, 1969), p. 348, cited by Katz, Battleground, p. 88.
7. Parkes, Whose LandZ p. 72.
8. Ibid.; also see S.D. Goitein, A Mediterranean Society, 3 vols. (Berkeley, Los Angeles, London, 1971), vol. 2, p. 61 the main synagogue [in Ramle] was the Palestinian."
9. Al-Waqidy, ninth-century Arab historian, recorded a Jewish-settled area in Jericho in the seventh century and "there are other references to Jewish communal life in Jericho as late as the ninth century." Cited by Itzhak Ben-Zvi, The Exiled and the Redeemed (Philadelphia, 1961), p. 146.
10. Ben-Zvi, The Exiled, pp. 144-145. The Nadhir and Kainuka Arabian-Jewish tribes' "battles for their survival ... is found in Dr. Israel Ben-Zeev's remarkable book, Jews in Arabia, " Ben-Zvi states.
11. Israel Ben Zeev, Jews in Arabia, cited by Ben-Zvi, The Exiled, p. 145.
12. Ben-Zvi, The Exiled, p. 145. Ben-Zvi cites Arabian historian Al-Waqidy, as reported in Ben-Zeev, Jews in Arabia.
13. Ibid., p. 146. Ben-Zvi states that some Jews who could "produce letters of protection and treaties signed by or on behalf of the Prophet" were permitted to remain. "...there is reason to believe that these surviving Jewish communities were maintained intact until the twelfth century."
14. Quoted from SheikhAbd Allah Al Meshad, "Jews' Attitudes Towards Islam and Muslims in the First Islamic Era," in D.F. Green, ed., Arab Theologians on Jews and Israel (Geneva, 197 1), p. 22. Darwaza, "The Attitude of the Jews Towards
15. Quoted from Muhammad Azzah nto Him]-at the Islam, Muslims and the Prophet of Islam-P.B.U.H. [Peace Be Unto Him] - at the time of His Honourable Prophethood," in ibid., pp. 29-30.
16. Ben-Zvi, The Exiled, pp. 146-147 the existence of which we have records."
17. Parkes, Whose Land?, pp. 97-99.
18. Ibid., p. 110.
19. Martin Gilbert, Exile and Return, The Strugglefor a Jewish Homeland (Philadelphia and New York, 1978), p. 17. "In 1322 Jewish geographer from Florence, Ashtory Ha-Parhi, had settled in the Jezreel Valley where he wrote a book on the topography of Palestine....
20. Ibid., pp. 17-19. Elijah of Ferrara.
21. Parkes, Whose Land?, p. I 11.
22. Gilbert, Exile, p. 17.
23. Ibid., p. 21.
24. Ibid. For a more detailed account, see Joachim Prinz, The Secret Jews (New York, 1973), p. 147ff
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-25-2006, 04:29 PM
Salaam,

Could pls provide link to your documents.

Of course all sides have two stories but it depends on which you wish to beleive.

The sum of your story want to show the right of jews to Israel.
And it also show the pictures of the brutality the jews faced by various races and religion.


But may i ask,in all that how many races have faced such high and downs in history?
The Aborigines,the Red indian,The Iban,the incans,,and so on..

Indigenous people who were enslaved tortured and persecuted by varuous winning parties.
So do they have the right to return.

If we wish to go by date then surely it is not Muslim nor Jews nor Christian who have a right to the land but those precedeing there major religions.

will that happen?

Every nation that made its mark and loses it tries to recover it old glory,but at what expense to other races?

The Jews intent on occupying Israel and Jerusalem has so far tortured and oppresed the people whom have been in that land for generation,they are now defunct and called immigrant and illegals,where as Jews who have never lived in Israel/palestine get the right of citizenship.

Perhaps the sum is this,no matter how holy you claim your race to be,chosen by god or what ever,you will never escape the endless violence.

As the Jews were torutred and oppresed by the germans..
So do now has the oppresed become the master
the Jews now oppress and torture palestinians.

the cycle continue.

But Inshallah,as in before when Jews and Christian lived and worship in peace before the creation of Palestine/Israel....so it shall again..
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-25-2006, 04:34 PM
Salaam,

Also there is another thread on why the punished and one destroyed...in the time of Propeht Muhammad saw.

But i beleive that the reason exist in the quran and in the Islamic history but not in Jewish history.
And lavikor or was it another,who say the reason were doubful since no jews made an account of their betrayal and treachery.
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-25-2006, 05:13 PM
Salaam,

fact and figures of Jews from wikipedia..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

Although in the 11th century they comprised only 3% of the world's Jewish population, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for (at their highest) 92% of the world's Jews in 1931 and today make up approximately 80% of Jews worldwide.[5] Most Jewish communities with extended histories in Europe are Ashkenazim, with the exception of those associated with the Mediterranean region. A significant portion of the Jews who migrated from Europe to other continents in the past two centuries are Eastern Ashkenazim, particularly in the United States.
Also this is an interesting study on Askenzim Jews,their genetic makeup and who they are..

http://www.dnadirect.com/resource/ho..._Ashkenazi.jsp

This theory is supported by the fact that today people of Ashkenazi Jewish descent have a higher incidence of a number of mutations for specific diseases. Examples of this would be mutations in the genes that increase the risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer as well as mutations that cause the childhood neurological disorder Tay-Sachs disease and Gaucher disease.
Until recently, both religious and political factors helped to ensure that Ashkenazi Jews married other Ashkenazi Jews. Today, millions of people may be able to trace their ancestry directly to these founders. Thus, even if just a few founders had a mutation, the gene defect would become amplified in the population.
Also your article about the Y chromosome does indicate that the jews now are all ONE,,,but it does not prove that that there is a link to first priest.
And also Khazars do have their own Priests..you do know that right,so intermarriage is common...and thus it only proves that the majority are Khazars...

Also this verse is very important...

Since the (male) Y chromosome consists almost entirely of non-coding DNA, it would tend to accumulate mutations. Since it is passed from father to son without recombination, the genetic information on a Y chromosome of a man living today is basically the same as that of his ancient male ancestors, except for the rare mutations that occur along the hereditary line. A combination of these neutral mutations, known as a haplotype, can serve as a genetic signature of a man's male ancestry. Maternal genealogies are also being studied by means of the m-DNA (mitrocondrial DNA), which is inherited only from the mother.
First off the male Y chromosome does not chage,so we males all have the same makeup as Adam....but

due to rare mutation we are different and this is the key to isolate our uniqueness.

But there is no gurantee that wihting the period of the time thena nd now there no more mutation from the first,so there is no proof that jews jnow are descendant of the first Priest...

there is just proof of their oneness but not not the lineage.

But from this we can have proof that we are all ONE due to Adam..and Eve..LOL
Reply

IzakHalevas
11-25-2006, 08:22 PM
Yet 60% of Israel's Jews are Arab origin. Hmmmm... Most of the Eurpean Jews are in the USA.
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-26-2006, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Yet 60% of Israel's Jews are Arab origin. Hmmmm... Most of the Eurpean Jews are in the USA.

Salaam,

Jews are arab origin?

Hmm,,,Arab is a race not a religion,but in your case you would put Jew as a race or a religon.

Jew is a race and thus cannot be an arab too..

It is best to refer to people who claim the Judaic faith to be Judaist.
it is the same generalization by the west that all Arabs are muslim.

Such concoction should be dispelled especially if you claim to follow the judaic faith.

there are Jews whom are muslim,whom are christians,whom are atheist...and so on..
Like wise there are Arabs whom are muslim,chrisitan atheist,agnostics and other religions..
Reply

Al-Zaara
11-26-2006, 03:51 PM
:sl:

You sure brother Zulkiflim?
I've never in my life heard that Jew is a race.

:w:
Reply

IzakHalevas
11-26-2006, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
:sl:

You sure brother Zulkiflim?
I've never in my life heard that Jew is a race.

:w:
It isn't a race because there are black, asian, white, and arab Jews. But most Jews since they did not intermarry share common DNA traits, but look different because many converts have joined the Jewish people from whereever the lands are.

Black Jews, and White European Jews and Arab Jews share similar DNA traits closer than Arab Jews and Arab Muslims hold.

Jews were in the Holy Land way before any Muslim presence. And had a majority way longer than Muslims, until Muslim, anc Christian conqueres decided to change that.
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-26-2006, 06:39 PM
Salaam,

Yes technically Jew is a race,their religion is Judaism.

Jews and Arabs are cousins.
They are semitic.

http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew.html

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm#Who

So if you read more in depth you will find that the streotyping of Jews Judaism is false
As is Arab to Islam
As Italian is to Catholics
As is Chinese to Buddhism.

So jews is a race and Judaism is their religion.

But in the media and the world in general,to be arab is to be muslim,to be a jew is to be a judaic.

so such generalization should be rendered null.
Reply

Al-Zaara
11-26-2006, 08:02 PM
:sl:

JazakAllah khair brother Zulkiflim for the links, I will go and see them when I have time, insha'Allah.

Though what IzakHalevas said, is there are black/white/asian Jews, so Jew is not a race.

It will take a bit time for me to research further, but I'll take my time, insha'Allah.

:w:
Reply

Fishman
11-26-2006, 08:06 PM
:sl:
Jews are not just a race, nor merely the followers of a religion. I don't think there is a good word which describes Jews, other than a 'community', or 'group'.
:w:
Reply

Skillganon
11-26-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Jews are not just a race, nor merely the followers of a religion. I don't think there is a good word which describes Jews, other than a 'community', or 'group'.
:w:
It all depend's to which Jew you are talking to. Each will more or less describe it differently.
Reply

IzakHalevas
11-26-2006, 09:57 PM
Though what IzakHalevas said, is there are black/white/asian Jews, so Jew is not a race.
Are Jews a race? Make the descion in your own:












(chief rabbi of israel)







Reply

MuslimCONVERT
11-27-2006, 01:41 AM
A Muslim who hates Jews for the simple fact of hating Jews is violating the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (Saas) who ordered us to respect both the Jews and the Torah.

The one who disobeys the Sunnah (example) of Muhammad (Saas) disobeys the Qu'ran, and the one who disobeys the Qu'ran breaks the laws of God.

It may be that there are many Muslims who hate the Jews as a whole, whether knowingly or unknowingly, and I have found myself often making sweeping generalizations of them, may Allah (swt) forgive me for that.

But due to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is easy to let these ill feelings creep into our hearts on both sides. (Jewish and Muslim).

I find it difficult to believe that a Jewish man in America would fully trust me as a Muslim, and vice versa. I am not saying this is good or correct, in fact, quite the opposite, but I wonder...is there a solution other than individual change?

After all, the Qu'ran says that Allah (swt) does not change the position of a people until those people change what is in themselves.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-27-2006, 01:52 AM
Well one of my best friends is Jewish, soo yea if that helps. Since Kindergarten =D I got nothing against anyone, only against the idiots. I distance those type of people in my mind from their actual faith :D I mean it makes sense right? lol
Reply

lavikor201
11-27-2006, 05:11 AM
is there a solution other than individual change?
Education. We need to learn more, and have interfaith meetings. To save our religions from extremists who act in the name of them. :)

Peace be upon you.
Reply

Lamaggad
11-29-2006, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Education. We need to learn more, and have interfaith meetings. To save our religions from extremists who act in the name of them. :)
Exactly, I totally agree...

but we have to understand that if you don't have sources for education then you can't be educated, think of the Palestinian people who live under attack every single day.. how can those people be able to increase there knowledge or even learn how not to hate while their families ane houses are being destroyed infront of thier eyes...

we have to look at the problem from its roots I guess.
Reply

*noor
11-29-2006, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
we have to look at the problem from it's roots
that is 100% correct!! you can expect the results of a problem to get better if the problem itself is still there.
Reply

Zulkiflim
11-29-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Are Jews a race? Make the descion in your own:












(chief rabbi of israel)







Salaam,

The pictures are sure nice but again....they may be covnerts right?

thus they follow the Judaic fiath and are not Jews.

Also by not accepting that Jews is a race you are dubunking your own post on the common gene found in all Jews.

So i reiterate,Judaism is the race of the Jews...a generalization.

All arabs are Muslim or followers of Islam...a generalization

All chinese are buddhist..a generalisation.
Reply

IzakHalevas
11-29-2006, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

The pictures are sure nice but again....they may be covnerts right?

thus they follow the Judaic fiath and are not Jews.

Also by not accepting that Jews is a race you are dubunking your own post on the common gene found in all Jews.

So i reiterate,Judaism is the race of the Jews...a generalization.

All arabs are Muslim or followers of Islam...a generalization

All chinese are buddhist..a generalisation.
Actually no. All the people you see above are not converts. The Ethiopian Jews claim they are from the tribe of Dan, the Iranian, and Arab Jews claim they are from many tribes as well.

The Kohens, of all these people black, white, asian, and arab share similar DNA that all mankind does not share. They actually have Specifically, a component of the Y-chromosone, an allele YAP+ DYS19, something not found in any of the populace around them that is non-Jewish. Therefore, they can trace there roots back to Mt. Sinia! Why the differences? Intermarriage and converts have come into the Jewish people, but not enough to remove a specific gene linking people. Not only that but scientists have found that a climate can effect the way you look after a period of time.

Judaism is not a race because converts and intermarriage, but at the same time, proof linking Jews all over the world with DNA evidence shows that Jews are connected by more then religion.
Reply

Zulkiflim
12-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Salaam,

Thus Jews is a race.
As you have pointed out,there is a common gene amongst all of you.

Judaic convert do not have this triat,so they are not Jews.
they follow the Judaic fiath.

And the study would be more appopriate if the encompassed Jews whom are muslims,agnostic,atheist,buddhis..ie different religion.

And you can go to jewsforallah,they are of the Jewish race but are muslims.
Same for jewsforchrist,jewish descendant but of christian faith.

I believe that you got this data form here..
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769

Correct me if i am wrong,,but the heading and summation shows

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

To say that Jew is not a race is to say Arab is also not a race..lol..Both are cousin same father different mother...
Reply

lavikor201
12-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Thus Jews is a race.
As you have pointed out,there is a common gene amongst all of you.
There is only a common gene amonst the Kohen who do not marry converts. There have been enough converts to Judaism where the Jewish people are no longer a "people" because of the different races, but the Jews although many converts have joined do still have similarities that marrying converts may not nessearily erase.

Judaic convert do not have this triat,so they are not Jews.
they follow the Judaic fiath.
When someone converts to Judaism, they join the Jewish people however.
Reply

Zulkiflim
12-05-2006, 07:00 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
There is only a common gene amonst the Kohen who do not marry converts. There have been enough converts to Judaism where the Jewish people are no longer a "people" because of the different races, but the Jews although many converts have joined do still have similarities that marrying converts may not nessearily erase.



When someone converts to Judaism, they join the Jewish people however.
Salaam,

Well let us take Islam ..

Islam is a religion.
Began in Arabia,and thus a majority are then Arabs.

Thus was it associated ..Islam:Muslim:Arab..

But when the world expanded,ie thru trade and commerce..

Many other races became Muslim....millions...and now billion..

But by association are all muslim Arabs?

NO,thru conversion or not,they are not arabs nor are thir progency...they are by another term..Muslim..

Thus for a Jew of a Jewish mother,,is a Jew by birth.
But can be a Buddhist,Taosit,Agnostic,Atheist,Muslim...

A person who follow the Judaic faith is termed Judaist...not a Jew.
Just like converts in Islam are termed Muslims,,,not Arabs..

LOL
Reply

Mateen
12-05-2006, 09:29 AM
Salam,

We will always find people who hate eachother.

Some Jews hate muslims, some muslims hate jews and this also goes with Christians, Pagans, Buddhists and on and on.

As a Muslim our response should be
"We believe what has been revealed to us"


Remember our Prophet Muhammad{saas} said, kill not others for unjust reasons. And Allah is the best judge.

The only just reason to hate non-muslims is if they stop us from worshipping Allah.

The rest of the matters as to who is on the right path, who is worshipping God in the correct form, who went astray,who denied the signs of Allah by rejecting Allah's messengers and who holds on to the God's word firmly,will be decided by Allah on the day of judgement.

Allah asks us to tell the non-believers to wait, and we are waiting as well.

Wassalam.
Reply

Lamaggad
12-05-2006, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Mateen
Salam,

We will always find people who hate eachother.

Some Jews hate muslims, some muslims hate jews and this also goes with Christians, Pagans, Buddhists and on and on.

As a Muslim our response should be
"We believe what has been revealed to us"


Remember our Prophet Muhammad{saas} said, kill not others for unjust reasons. And Allah is the best judge.

The only just reason to hate non-muslims is if they stop us from worshipping Allah.

The rest of the matters as to who is on the right path, who is worshipping God in the correct form, who went astray,who denied the signs of Allah by rejecting Allah's messengers and who holds on to the God's word firmly,will be decided by Allah on the day of judgement.

Allah asks us to tell the non-believers to wait, and we are waiting as well.

Wassalam.
well done said :)
Reply

T@z@belle
12-29-2006, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=IzakHalevas;566898]The descriptions of torture and human sacrifice in the anti-Semitic blood libels run contrary to many of the actual teachings of Judaism.

Most obviously, the Ten Commandments in the Jewish Torah forbid murder. In addition, the use of blood (human or otherwise) in cooking is prohibited by Kashrut, or Kosher dietary laws. Blood and other discharges from the human body are ritually unclean (Lev 15). Blood from slaughtered animals may not be consumed, and must be drained out of the animal and buried (Lev 17:12-13). According to the book of Leviticus, blood from sacrificed animals may only be placed on the altar of the Great Temple in Jerusalem (which no longer existed at the time of any of these alleged events). Furthermore, humans, since they do not have cloven hooves nor do they chew the cud, are not considered a Kosher animal.

While animal sacrifice was part of the practice of ancient Judaism, the Tanakh (Old Testament) and Jewish teaching portray human sacrifice as one of the evils that separated the pagans of Canaan from the Hebrews (Deut 12:31, 2 Kings 16:3). Jews were prohibited from engaging in these rituals and were punished for doing so (Ex 34:15, Lev 20:2, Deut 18:12, Jer 7:31). In fact, ritual cleanliness for priests prohibited even being in the same room as a human corpse (Lev 21:11).

Proponents of the blood libel, such as British fascist Arnold Leese ("Jewish Ritual Murder" 1938) and sympathetic contemporaries, claim that proof of ritual murder is contained within scripture. Such evidence is the product of distorting the source material or ignoring its context. The neo-Nazi site JRBooks (White supremist/Nazi site) lists Psalm 137 as proof that Jews engaged in ritual child murder, citing the line "Happy is he who takes their little ones and dashes them against the stones" . However, the correct rendering of line 137:9 is "How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!" and the line must be read in context. The whole Psalm refers to Jewish tribulations at the hands of Babylon and ends with a curse against the oppressor. Only deliberate distortion could make the line an exhortation to murder gentile children.

Blood libel stories have appeared a number of times in the state-sponsored media of a number of Arab and Muslim nations, their television shows and websites. Books alleging occurrences of Jewish blood libel are not uncommon.

The Matzah Of Zion was written by the Syrian Defense Minister, Mustafa Tlass in 1983. The book concentrates on two issues: renewed ritual murder accusations against the Jews in the Damascus Affair of 1840, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. On October 21, 2002, the London based Arabic paper Al-Hayat reported that the book was undergoing its eighth reprint and was being translated into English, French, and Italian.
In 2001 an Egyptian film company produced and aired a film called Horseman Without a Horse, partly based on Tlass's book. The book was cited at a United Nations conferences in 1991 by a Syrian delegate.
Multiple branches of the Syrian government, including the Damascus Police Command and the Department of Antiquities and Museums, the security ministry, the culture ministry, created an anti-Semitic television TV series called Ash-Shatat ("The Diaspora".) This series originally aired in Syria and in Lebanon late 2003, and was broadcast by Al-Manar, a satellite television network owned by Hezbollah. This TV series is based on the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, shows the Jewish people as engaging in a conspiracy to rule the world, and presents Jews as people who murder Christian children, drain their blood, and use this blood to bake matzah. [1] [2] [3]
On December 20, 2005, in a discussion with Iranian political analysts aired on Jaam-e Jam 2 Iranian TV, the author of the book The History of the Jews who works for the Tehran Times Dr. Hasan Hanizadeh said in particular:
"Unfortunately, the West has forgotten two horrendous incidents, carried out by the Jews in 19th-century Europe - in Paris and London, to be precise. In 1883, about 150 French children were murdered in a horrible way in the suburbs of Paris, before the Jewish Passover holiday. Later research showed that the Jews had killed them and taken their blood. ... A similar incident took place in London, when many English children were killed by Jewish rabbis. ..."[4]



exuse me pleez...but arabs are semitic themseleves sooo HOW can u be anti-urself???also i watched a whole show on blood libel and i guess it used to happen but among fundamentalist jews.
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ManchesterFolk
12-29-2006, 09:28 PM
exuse me pleez...but arabs are semitic themseleves sooo HOW can u be anti-urself???also i watched a whole show on blood libel and i guess it used to happen but among fundamentalist jews.
No they didn't. This is against Jewish law, and the TV brodcast you watched were lies meant to demonize a people who are innocent.

The bloood libel is about as true as someone saying the Quran taches to eat babies.

(Both are false of course)

But then again your logic would say "maybe fundamentalist muslims eat babies" which is untrue just like the blood libel against the jews.
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