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chris4336
11-20-2006, 11:35 AM
Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"
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YusufNoor
11-20-2006, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"

ummm, Chris, i read some of your post yesterday. last i remember is that you were "on the fence" regarding Islam...

but now, you're a Muslimah??? Alhumdulillah! (unless i missed something)

anyway, all those thoughts running around your head MAY be Allah's (SWT) way of testing you. you might struggle with those issues for quite some time. just remember that when we are tested, the purpose is to strengthen our faith, although easier said than done sometimes.

look for the proper times to discuss individual issues with your family. try it all at once and you may overload and freak out. BUT, explaining Islamic beliefs to your family would considered "Dawah". therefor, seek Allah's (SWT) guidance through prayer & du'a, along with help from any sisters or possibly and Imam.

the "treatment" of women, well good luck with that because you'll probably have "issues" even with Muslim men on THAT one!

Allah (SWT) will reward you for all the correct choices that you make! as well as forgive you any missteps! so it's kind of a win/win situation!

just don't get discouraged!

and may Allah (SWT) guide you and strengthen you!
Reply

Umar001
11-20-2006, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"
Yea am still confused, am guessing you haven't converted yet but your thinking yourself as one :happy: :happy: I know the feeling ;D

Anyhow, I mean, any person who has been brought up in a certain way to believe 'this' is right and 'that' is wrong, and then to be told 'no no no, 'this' is wrong and 'that' is right' is a big thing and something you have to adjust to, for example, I was a christian, and you know how we Christians are, 'turn the other cheek' and so forth, it took me a while to get used to the fact that battles were allowed and having swordss and so on, alot of things to me take me a while to totally feel natural with, and yes sometimes theres a voice nagging 'but..but...I don't get it' and stuff like that, but personally the way I see it is, if I have found out that Islaam is the right path, and the Qu'ran is indeed the word of G-d and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is needed a messenger, then what ever is in the Qu'ran and what ever Muhammad peace be upon him say, are from G-d and it is done with the best of understanding and the best of Judgement, I always tell people, we as humans only can see upto the horizon where G-d may see above and beyond, so sometimes what doesn't make sense to me, I reconcile with the fact that I know for sure Islaam is right, so I need not worry.

I hope that made sense lol
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Rabi'ya
11-20-2006, 12:25 PM
:sl:

welcome to Islam :) Im a revert too.....:)

There are many things which Islam teaches us which are perhaps against our "traditional" western values. I think its important not just to accept these, but to look deeper as to why they are as they are. - this way ull have a greater knowledge and understanding and will come ot LOVE ISlam even more

You are saying about the treatment of women, and i understand, at first i thought women have more right in western society, but u come to learn this is not true. Time will pass and you will change you mode of thinking.

With regard to homosexuals....the same things applies.

I would encourage you to, research the topic which bothers u, and tkae it slowly. these things and changes in heart dont happen over night.

Sis, im always here if u want someone to talk to inshAllah.

I pray Allah guides you and keeps you oin the striaght path.

If you have any particular issues, why not raise them? or search other threads to see wht islam has to say on that topic:)

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 12:28 PM
Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period
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chris4336
11-20-2006, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Yea am still confused, am guessing you haven't converted yet but your thinking yourself as one :happy: :happy: I know the feeling ;D
Haha that sums up exactly where I am right now.

Thanks a lot - its good to know its not just me. Lots of stuff going on in head right now!!! I know that I just have to put my complete faith in God and this is where I struggle a bit :hmm: Yes I know that we cannot fully understand God and why he tells us certain things, its just sometimes hard to break out of the western "I know whats best for me and I don't need anyone telling me anything" mentality.
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Malaikah
11-20-2006, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period
:sl:

lol true. but its worth researching the major doubts!
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chris4336
11-20-2006, 12:32 PM
Yeah I think for me it has to come from believing fully that Quran is the word of God and Mohamed is the prophet of God...if this belief is strong all the other things will come very easily. I guess kind of like the story of Abraham (I think) when he was asked to kill his son - He did so out of faith in God not because he understood the wisdom behind it. This is where I would like to be.
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Rabi'ya
11-20-2006, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period
i disagree....tell me which Muslim knows everything?

im saying, accept Islam, based on the love and understanding u have. knwing its the path of truth. the other small things which may be doubts in ur mind are not reason enuf not to accept Islam. but purely a way for us to have a thirst for knowledge.

I often have doubts, but i would never denounce Islam. I have full trust in Allah and know that these doubts will be cleared up, I just need to find the answers.

As is it sed in one of Dr Zakirs lectures....
non-Muslim " I could accept Islam - but i could never give up drinking"
Muslim "so accept Islam, put ur full faith in Allah and inshallah He will guide you"
non-Muslim " How can I be a Muslim and drink"
Muslim " All Muslims commit sins, but that doesnt mean we should shy away from the truth. try to complete as many other good deeds."

I dont remember how the whole conversation went, but the moral is, Its better to accept Islam and slowly try to cut down ur sins. Than to stop sinning and thn accept Islam. what if u spent ur whole life trying to stop sinning and never accepted Islam....It might end up too late :)

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Rabi'ya
11-20-2006, 12:36 PM
To be a Muslim...what are the requirements - BASIC REQUIREMENTS

to testify that there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad(saw) is the messenger of Allah

If you believe this then u need to say it with conviction in ur heart and accept Islam. Then day by day u need to research into the basics....slowly implementing as much Islam as you can in ur life.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
i disagree....tell me which Muslim knows everything?

im saying, accept Islam, based on the love and understanding u have. knwing its the path of truth. the other small things which may be doubts in ur mind are not reason enuf not to accept Islam. but purely a way for us to have a thirst for knowledge.

I often have doubts, but i would never denounce Islam. I have full trust in Allah and know that these doubts will be cleared up, I just need to find the answers.

As is it sed in one of Dr Zakirs lectures....
non-Muslim " I could accept Islam - but i could never give up drinking"
Muslim "so accept Islam, put ur full faith in Allah and inshallah He will guide you"
non-Muslim " How can I be a Muslim and drink"
Muslim " All Muslims commit sins, but that doesnt mean we should shy away from the truth. try to complete as many other good deeds."

I dont remember how the whole conversation went, but the moral is, Its better to accept Islam and slowly try to cut down ur sins. Than to stop sinning and thn accept Islam. what if u spent ur whole life trying to stop sinning and never accepted Islam....It might end up too late :)

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
I dont know if you just misread my statement, but you said you disagree then your statement after completly agreed with mine lol :happy:

What I was saying is exactly what your saying now.
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Rabi'ya
11-20-2006, 12:44 PM
lol sorry i misread :) sorry

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Haha that sums up exactly where I am right now.

Thanks a lot - its good to know its not just me. Lots of stuff going on in head right now!!! I know that I just have to put my complete faith in God and this is where I struggle a bit :hmm: Yes I know that we cannot fully understand God and why he tells us certain things, its just sometimes hard to break out of the western "I know whats best for me and I don't need anyone telling me anything" mentality.

Also can I ask what is your view of G-d as in, erm, were you a christian that had a 'close' reletionship with G-d or a person who had G-d always in the background for emerngecys instaed of 911, lol, or what? Cos that is something you need to know in order to kinda move along, sorry if its abit personal.
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
lol sorry i misread :) sorry

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
Hey no worries :)
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chris4336
11-20-2006, 01:14 PM
Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say. But thinking about death has always scared me, and I would say at this point its probably more fear, than love, that is pushing me to Islam.
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Protected_Diamond
11-20-2006, 01:19 PM
Read & understand Islam in more detail & insha' Allah you won't have a problem. Always remind yourself of death and the purpose of life. Don't waste time on thinking too deeply about everything - don't let your mind wander of. Leave everything in Allah's hand and focus on the compulsory duties which have been commanded.
Congrats on finding the truth and remember there's always wisdom behind everything in Islam, whether we see it or not...it's always there! Try not to be sceptical and try and make muslim friends who will guide and help you and you'll be fine insha Allah with Allah's help! :)
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glo
11-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say.
That's how I grew up thinking about God too. :?

To be honest, I thought religion was largely invented to keep people under control ...
But that didn't stop me from suddenly 'finding my faith' and start praying to God occasionally, like you say, when it was an emergency ... :muddlehea

Peace, sister :)
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say. But thinking about death has always scared me, and I would say at this point its probably more fear, than love, that is pushing me to Islam.
Oh ok, well I guess we werent 'twins' in this area of finding G-d lol. Though I do understand what you mean by "All good people go heaven..."

I don't know, all I can share with you is how I've felt, I grew up in a wierd way and I always found myself talking to G-d, I do understand that fear is a big part in religion as such, but for me, to be honest, I used to want to talk about the end days, and so forth, I was biblically fascinated by the book of Revelation and I saw the G-d reprenseted there, in a light which I didn't see in Church, I saw a G-d that would execute his Justice and Punishment, I think alot of people have a problem with that, alot of people do like to just think, G-d loves everyone and so forth, in a similar sense of yours, but for me, I from my Christian days understood that yes G-d does love people, but at the same time, if you totally and wholly reject him then that love can became void in the sense that hell will then turn into a reality for the person.

That for me is the reality, it is impossible for us not to love G-d, if we believe in G-d then it naturally follows that we should love him, since we love people who have done less than he has ever done for us, it is only our perception of blessings that does not allow us to love Him.

Lol I still hope am making sense ;D
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جوري
11-20-2006, 02:10 PM
Chris..... maybe we should analyze your fears one by one to diminish them....or at least help you better deal with them?

I am not really sure how you think Islam treats women? I don't know any Muslim woman in my circle of friends that doesn't have complete autonomy or a great job..... I don't see anything in Islam prohibiting women from having their business, getting a divorce, being educated..... Egypt has more doctors than the U.S does.... Iran has more women in their house of representative than U.S does..... don't yield to that pre-painted image that this society has painted to you of us...
look at this recent convert has done to help others...
http://avari.blogs.com/weblog/2006/0..._women_ar.html
http://www.maraboonline.com/collection.php


2- What is it about treatment of Homosexuals that bothers you? If someone is committing a sin of this caliber and make no mistake it is a sin by all organized religion standards ... they simply shouldn't be flashing it in every one's face... I don't like it when regular folk flash their PDA publicly, let alone something that is considered immoral... I just read an article yesterday of parents protesting in a middle school about a book, now a part of their children curriculum that teaches about two male penguins raising a chick..... see even here in the good old U.S of A people have high standards and ARE CONSERVATIVE.... I believe I have written once about how the immediate wrong of a situation doesn't seem apparent ... as they come across not hurting anyone.... but it is the same as some woman who donates her eggs and thereby harms herself and society, even though she might think she is helping a childless couple conceive, she is in fact harming her body with hormones ... and harming future generations from let's say the possibility of marrying their own siblings ... or with unknown Genetic diseases--tons of these anonymous donors' children at some point might end up marrying their own siblings?-- I know this is a digression. But think about it. think of the ramifications that might be subtle and not as immediately harmful to self or society ... but in fact still exist.... like being electrocuted and having the jolt stay dormant in the purkinje fibers only to cause seizures and death shortly afterwards ... the person looks normal from the outside ... internal damage is phenomenal.... and mortally wounding.....

3- There are tons of non-practicing Muslims unfortunately ... they don't rub it in the face of the rest of us, it is ultimately something between them and G-D...... to be an apostasy is to declare war on Islam make no mistake. They do so because an apostate by nature is someone who n needs to justify to self "rational reasons" for his new found state and wishes to attack the religion and spread falsity....I don't wish to direct your attention to one very famous apostate currently flooding the net with his crap.... he doesn't accept any decent invitation to debate the issues ... even to the most moderate of us he is a criminal...
Most of us who are devout feel one with our predecessors, we share in their values we respect them. To attack them assimilates to attacking a family member and I don't know anyone that would stand for their family being hurt and humiliated and not do anything about ... please don't confuse that with freedom of speech ... that is indeed allowed in Islam...... I am talking about an act of war..... that is all together different!---
in 1606 Caravaggio used a dead ***** to depict the virgin Mary in a painting.... I want to ask you how if you were a devout Christian at some point felt about that?--
because on all levels I find that very offensive... And it doesn't matter if it were a depiction of Mary (PBUH) or prophet Mohammed (PBUH)... there are boundries not to be crossed... even if we can.... you can always go kill your irritating next door neighbor and have be rid yourself and the world of conceived evil....... it doesn't mean you should go do it :hmm: we hope! lol
:w:
http://www.kfki.hu/~/arthp/html/c/ca...7/45death.html
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chris4336
11-20-2006, 03:33 PM
Eesa - Thanks for the PM yeah I really understand what you mean - for awhile I had just left the whole Fatawa thing and tried to really look if I believe Islam is from God and develop my relationship with God. This has been much more productive for me but sometimes I still get stuck.


Thanks for the explanations, and yes as I do explore I do see more the logic behind the reasons. But what still gets me (and maybe will get me for a long time) is this kind of thought process:

Islam says: Listen to your husband.
My own voice screaming: This is wrong you are your own person you do what you want. You have been taught that since you were little!
Then the other voice pops in: No you need to look at the reason behind it, have faith in god, etc etc.

See what I mean how its a constant battle in my head? And this is only in my own head - forget trying to explain it to others.

Please don't think I'm talking bad about Islam, I do understand there is a reason behind all these things and I really appreciate all the suggestions and it is really conforting to know there are people out there to help me, at least on the computer.
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YusufNoor
11-20-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Eesa - Thanks for the PM yeah I really understand what you mean - for awhile I had just left the whole Fatawa thing and tried to really look if I believe Islam is from God and develop my relationship with God. This has been much more productive for me but sometimes I still get stuck.


Thanks for the explanations, and yes as I do explore I do see more the logic behind the reasons. But what still gets me (and maybe will get me for a long time) is this kind of thought process:

Islam says: Listen to your husband.
My own voice screaming: This is wrong you are your own person you do what you want. You have been taught that since you were little!
Then the other voice pops in: No you need to look at the reason behind it, have faith in god, etc etc.

See what I mean how its a constant battle in my head? And this is only in my own head - forget trying to explain it to others.

Please don't think I'm talking bad about Islam, I do understand there is a reason behind all these things and I really appreciate all the suggestions and it is really conforting to know there are people out there to help me, at least on the computer.
a man is supposed to listen to his wife too, you know! :okay:
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zaria
11-20-2006, 03:58 PM
Just keep focus and praying and ask Allah to guide you and keep the nay-sayers away. ANd once they see that you are focused and happy, they will come around and treat you with up most respect. Trust me, I know!

MashaAllah
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جوري
11-20-2006, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336

Islam says: Listen to your husband.
etc.

.
Sure listen to your husband.... but a husband should also listen and honor his wife's wishes.... to be a good Muslim goes both ways... in other words it isn't encumbent upon just you (woman) to be good.... but on the man as well....
here read this... courtesy of bros. Ansar.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...bsection=Women
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chris4336
11-20-2006, 05:00 PM
Glo - just wanted to say thanks :)
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scentsofjannah
11-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
i disagree....tell me which Muslim knows everything?

im saying, accept Islam, based on the love and understanding u have. knwing its the path of truth. the other small things which may be doubts in ur mind are not reason enuf not to accept Islam. but purely a way for us to have a thirst for knowledge.

I often have doubts, but i would never denounce Islam. I have full trust in Allah and know that these doubts will be cleared up, I just need to find the answers.

As is it sed in one of Dr Zakirs lectures....
non-Muslim " I could accept Islam - but i could never give up drinking"
Muslim "so accept Islam, put ur full faith in Allah and inshallah He will guide you"
non-Muslim " How can I be a Muslim and drink"
Muslim " All Muslims commit sins, but that doesnt mean we should shy away from the truth. try to complete as many other good deeds."

I dont remember how the whole conversation went, but the moral is, Its better to accept Islam and slowly try to cut down ur sins. Than to stop sinning and thn accept Islam. what if u spent ur whole life trying to stop sinning and never accepted Islam....It might end up too late :)

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
totally agree with you.
Reply

scentsofjannah
11-20-2006, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Eesa - Thanks for the PM yeah I really understand what you mean - for awhile I had just left the whole Fatawa thing and tried to really look if I believe Islam is from God and develop my relationship with God. This has been much more productive for me but sometimes I still get stuck.


Thanks for the explanations, and yes as I do explore I do see more the logic behind the reasons. But what still gets me (and maybe will get me for a long time) is this kind of thought process:

Islam says: Listen to your husband.
My own voice screaming: This is wrong you are your own person you do what you want. You have been taught that since you were little!
Then the other voice pops in: No you need to look at the reason behind it, have faith in god, etc etc.

See what I mean how its a constant battle in my head? And this is only in my own head - forget trying to explain it to others.

Please don't think I'm talking bad about Islam, I do understand there is a reason behind all these things and I really appreciate all the suggestions and it is really conforting to know there are people out there to help me, at least on the computer.
:sl:

Husband AND wife should listen to each other..they should respect each other love each other be kind to each other..

Sister i would advice you not to delve into fatawas as it can be very confusing to a newly converted person..just stick to the Qur'an and get yourself good..and i mean good! books on Islam....from an author whos from the west like yourself.


Regarding the issue of women..i know there are women out there who want to convert to Islam but can't imagine themselves in a hijaab..those sisters with their limited understanding of Islam think hijaab= muslim and no hijaab= you're not a muslim or not good enough to convert to Islam how wrong they are!!!...there are other sisters who decide to wear the hijaab after a while 2 -3 years..some wear it immediately..others dont bother to wear it...though i must say these are a minority..So don't put off converting to Islam..because of some cloth..the wearing of which in todays dangerous world is not a wise decision...(i do wear it..but every second of my life i fear for my life..this has made me question if its wiser for me to not wear it at all )


regarding homosexuality...you should understand that many such people have experienced sexual abuse , neglect, abandonment etc..we have to understand the underlying social causes of homosexuality...was it an absent father/mother? was it sexual abuse/rape?? is it because they were/are in confined places for years and years with little or no privacy? like the army, prison..where they practically see each other naked taking a bath , urinating etc etc?..we have to ask ourselves all these questions.

one recent programme that i watched on The Jeremy kyle show was this man..who had a sex change..then married a woman and now hes distraught because she wants to have a sex change to become a man!! and he wanted to have kids with her!..now isnt that just freaky? the man always wanted to be in a lesbian relationship..he doesnt like other men..its just that he wanted to change his sex! what is going on!

regarding apostacy..i have posted some excellent articles about this on this forum before when i do find it ill give you the link inshaAllah..Islam doesnt tell us to kill apostates..if you read the Qur'an Allah talks about people who have believed THEN disbelieved THEN believed THEN disbelieved..yet the only punishment is the one in the next life no worldly punishment in fact Allah tells us to 'leave them alone'..read up about it sister and search for the answers for yourself..donot depend on fatawas read the Qur'an...the best guidance. :)


:w:
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Umar001
11-20-2006, 06:16 PM
I guess this isn't the place with regards to speak about what the Qu'ran says or not as such, but I will say, I hope that once you do become a Muslim, IF you do, then I hope that you will be a Muslim, one that submits inshaAllah, because it is easy to become a person who claims to be muslim, but then at the same time give in to our own desires and then change or adapt their understanding of Islaam to suit their needs.

All of us have problems with our desires, and all of us will battle desires, I just hope that we can all be of those who will not reject truth because our desires does not agree with it, but rather who will understand the truth and understand the conflict between the truth and our desires and then try our best to submit and obey Almighty G-d, for truly he knows what is best.

Eesa :)
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Hijrah
11-20-2006, 08:12 PM
I know exactly how you feel, I felt the same way when I found out about the punishment for apostasy but eventually for some reason I just snapped and I just accepted it willingly as God's (SWT) will...
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~Stranger~
11-20-2006, 08:39 PM
:sl:

i totally understand what u r saying sis (or is it too early to call u sis :p ??). muslim nowdays r also under attack of the so called "western values" and thats why some ppl (including muslims themselves) might think (and also say out loud) that islam is backward.

but lets look at it from a different point of view, many of these western values have proven themselves to be wrong (and sometimes even lethal). a good example is zina or dating. i remember i read a hadith (but im sorry i dont remember the exact words) about a young man who asked the prophet to allow him to commit zina so the prophet asked him "do u like that for ur sister?" and he answered "no". the prophet then said "and nobody likes that for his sister too". now if u say that today, ppl will laugh at u and think u r some sort of a cave(wo)man coz the concept of gheerah (jealousy) no longer exists these days. but today, more than ever, we know why fornicating is adultry r haram thanks to the (huge) number of SEXUAL transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies and so forth. but ppl in the time of the prophet didnt know that but they still have chosen to follow him coz as they say "Allah and his prophet know best".

Allah does know best and when he says homosexuality is a disorder u have to believe him coz he knows what hes talking about and dont be fooled by all the westerners who think its savage we punish homosexuals coz they dont know best.

islam says obey ur husband but it also says there should be no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience of the Creator. that sounds like a contradiction in islam but it isnt. ur husband have rights upon u like u have rights upon him. u r asked to listen to him and he is asked to respect, love and look after u, so dont be fooled by (not) muslim males who will tell u otherwise.

i was born muslim and i also have doubts sometimes about some values coz i was exposed to the western values and i dont live in the west (thanks to tv :-\ ) and i tell u islam can be a hard religion to understand sometimes and u have to look deep deep inside to understand it

wishing u all the best in ur journey and insha'allah one day we'll have the great honour to hear (or actually read) u saying shahada and announcing ur islam......

i hope i helped in my (messy) post :p

ur loving sister fisabeelillah

:w:
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Quruxbadaan
11-20-2006, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Yea am still confused, am guessing you haven't converted yet but your thinking yourself as one :happy: :happy: I know the feeling ;D

Anyhow, I mean, any person who has been brought up in a certain way to believe 'this' is right and 'that' is wrong, and then to be told 'no no no, 'this' is wrong and 'that' is right' is a big thing and something you have to adjust to, for example, I was a christian, and you know how we Christians are, 'turn the other cheek' and so forth, it took me a while to get used to the fact that battles were allowed and having swordss and so on, alot of things to me take me a while to totally feel natural with, and yes sometimes theres a voice nagging 'but..but...I don't get it' and stuff like that, but personally the way I see it is, if I have found out that Islaam is the right path, and the Qu'ran is indeed the word of G-d and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is needed a messenger, then what ever is in the Qu'ran and what ever Muhammad peace be upon him say, are from G-d and it is done with the best of understanding and the best of Judgement, I always tell people, we as humans only can see upto the horizon where G-d may see above and beyond, so sometimes what doesn't make sense to me, I reconcile with the fact that I know for sure Islaam is right, so I need not worry.

I hope that made sense lol

salaam

why cant i help but feel as tho theres a slant to this post

im sure in cristianity battles are "allowed" as a matter of fact there are many versus in the bible that talk about perchasing swords and preparing for battles
that doesnt exactly preach turning the other cheek

there are also many versus in Quran that teach us to have paitients and to do good to those even as they try to harm us so really those comments are way out of line

just had to point that out

Maa salaama
Reply

chris4336
11-20-2006, 09:31 PM
Thank you guys for all the support - its really nice to know that even Muslims struggle with their desires

Yes - I do understand that if I convert I should not change Islam to serve my needs (haha trust me its something I thought of)

I was a Christian before but only in a very loose sense and never really followed anything the church said. So I guess the whole idea of giving up what you want for God is a new/scary thing for me. But hopefully I can get through it.

Thank you all for the resonses
Reply

YusufNoor
11-21-2006, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Thank you guys for all the support - its really nice to know that even Muslims struggle with their desires

Yes - I do understand that if I convert I should not change Islam to serve my needs (haha trust me its something I thought of)

I was a Christian before but only in a very loose sense and never really followed anything the church said. So I guess the whole idea of giving up what you want for God is a new/scary thing for me. But hopefully I can get through it.

Thank you all for the resonses
Sister, sister, sister,

in real terms, you give up ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! AT ALL!!! NADA!!!

and you gain EVERYTHING!!!!!

if dunya and akhira were on a balance, one, (dunya) is the size of a little tiny, tiny little speck, while the other is a big as all of creation itself!!!!

feel a little uneasy, just walk into any masaajid and you'll find the most amazing folks you've EVER met! (of course, i don't recommend that a sister do THAT uncovered!)

feel a little unsure, how about that the Most Amazing, Merciful, Generous, Forgiving Creator is ON YOUR SIDE!!!

need encouragement, read a book (better to listen to one though) on the Rassululah Muhammed (pbuh). meh, a lecture is better. hard to cry to a book!!

you only think you'll be missing out. if you're not a Muslim, you ARE missing out!!
Reply

Umar001
11-21-2006, 02:54 AM
Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
salaam
Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah,


Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
why cant i help but feel as tho theres a slant to this post

im sure in cristianity battles are "allowed" as a matter of fact there are many versus in the bible that talk about perchasing swords and preparing for battles
that doesnt exactly preach turning the other cheek
I don't know if you totally understood my post sister, I did not speak about what the Bible totally teaches,

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
..for example, I was a christian, and you know how we Christians are, 'turn the other cheek' and so forth,...
I don't know if your aware that a christian does not neccesarily mean one who totally and wholly follows eachverse of the Bible, if you actually spoke to Christians, you will find many of them peaceful, this is based on their understanding of their scripture, whether that understanding is right or wrong , thats something we can debate about, but I don't think you can tell me, whether when I was a Christian I was not, as many are, the 'peaceful protest, turning other cheek' type.

Just as someone who calls themselves Muslim does not always mean they follow the Qu'ran properly, so some Christians are the same.


Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
there are also many versus in Quran that teach us to have paitients and to do good to those even as they try to harm us so really those comments are way out of line

just had to point that out

Maa salaama
Just wondering, were you a Christian? Also, I didnt mean that Islam taught brutality and inhumane acts, nor did my post state that, all I said was:

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
it took me a while to get used to the fact that battles were allowed and having swordss and so on,
For example, in the new testament there is no explicit verse which commands someone to physically fight, so it is not something many Christians believe in, there is a passage (which is deemed to be a later insertion) which is famous, 'let ye of no sin cast the first stone' so the understanding is that those who do wrong are going to be judged by G-d thats it, thats something else I had to adjust to, laws which command stoning, other cases such as the state and religion being one and not secular, and the differences of some Christian's belief and that of Islaam are probably unlistable.

Eesa. :)
Reply

zanjabeela
11-21-2006, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by chris4336
For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"
Hmmm, I would just like to say that you know, you can still be 100% pro-choice. I mean, Islam does not rule out abortion completely. If the mother's and/or baby's life is in danger, or her pregnancy was the result of rape, Islam does not say that she cannot or should not terminate. We are not the ones attacking abortion clinics, you know what I mean? :)

Yeah, Islam does not condone someone getting an abortion just because she thinks she is not ready for the responsibility (if you are responsible enough for the deed, you are responsible enough for the consequences)...but we do have allowances for when it might be necessary.
Reply

Dawud_uk
11-21-2006, 08:27 AM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"

salaam christina,

let us look at the way most muslims look at such situations as many people born into muslim families also have this problem? did you know that?

by that i mean many people are brought up upon a culture different than islam, some parts of it are islamically allowable. some are not and how do we know which is good and which bad and which indifferent?

well we have the guide of the Quran and sunnah, that is our criteria and many knowledgeable scholars will be able to answer your questions as to what is right or wrong in islam.

so this Quran is the word of God, we take it as a literal guidence from the almightly creator, so if God told you himself that homosexuality was wrong you would go 'wow, yeah didnt see it before but if they big guy says so then it must be so.'

this is the sort of guidence the Quran gives us, it is sometimes quite direct and occassionally it is a little more metaphorical but you take this book as your guidence.

now this book also tells you take the example of the prophet Muhammad saws and to obey him.

so you think, 'ok now God tells me i must obey and love this man and use him as my example in life'

now you see if you take it like this, that God is teaching you through the Quran and sunnah what is right and wrong then it becomes easier to accept.

Abu Abdullah
Reply

glo
11-21-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by zanjabeela
Hmmm, I would just like to say that you know, you can still be 100% pro-choice. I mean, Islam does not rule out abortion completely. If the mother's and/or baby's life is in danger, or her pregnancy was the result of rape, Islam does not say that she cannot or should not terminate. We are not the ones attacking abortion clinics, you know what I mean? :)
I think most people would agree that there are reasons which may justify the need for an abortion (the examples you gave are a few of those)

Pro-choicers in their most extreme form, however, would advocate that it is a woman's right to do with her body as she chooses, so she can choose to have an abortion for no reason other than not wanting to be pregnant.
(Would you agree with my perception on that, Christina?)

For most Muslims and Christians that statement in that extreme form is not in line with their religious teachings, and therefore not acceptable!
In that sense I would query whether your statement that as a Muslim 'you can still be 100% pro-choice' is correct ...

Peace
Reply

glo
11-21-2006, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Glo - just wanted to say thanks :)
I'm not sure what exactly for, but you are very welcome, sister :)

Peace
Reply

zanjabeela
11-21-2006, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by glo
For most Muslims and Christians that statement in that extreme form is not in line with their religious teachings, and therefore not acceptable!
In that sense I would query whether your statement that as a Muslim 'you can still be 100% pro-choice' is correct ...

Peace
In the sense of having abortions for the idea that one simply does not wish to be pregnant, no, you are correct, Islam is 0% pro-choice. Absolutely correct. However, the concept of pro-choice has rather been hijacked by that very irresponsible crowd. And it often comes down to all or nothing, with proposals being made that victims of incest who become pregnant should not be allowed the option of abortion. And it often seems as though those who are in the evangelical Christian group (and they are the ones given the majority of the publicity) support such proposals. Whereas in Islam, such debates should not even be arising. Whether they do or not, in predominantly Muslim countries, I do not know.

But, in the normal terms of the abortion debate, where does Islam fall? I would say 100% pro-choice. (By normal, I am thinking of those with reason to abort.) I have never heard of Christian groups coming out and condemning the more ridiculous of the anti-abortion propositions...but then again, I obviously cannot hear/read every news report out there. Please feel free inform me of such :)

And that was my only point really...as Chris4336 raised the concern that she is having a difficult time reconciling her pro-choice principles with what Islam may be dictating. Islam values the sanctity of life; and Islam also values the impact of those situations of need, where a woman may need to address such issues. It is not all or nothing; there is a middle path. And I would guess that the middle path of both true Christianity and Islam do get rather diluted.

Peace :)
Reply

glo
11-22-2006, 06:51 AM
I agree with your post zanjabeela.

I guess I was pointing out that 100% pro-choice is actually a rather extreme view, which Islam does not agree with.
But it was a fairly petty point to make, and I apologise if I have taken this thread off topic!
:embarrass

[The church I attend runs a pregnancy crisis support group for women with unwanted pregnancies. Many opt for an abortion out of fear, worry or confusion. And many suffer afterwards, because the guilt can be so overwhelming (Less so, perhaps, if there was a 'justifiable reason' for the abortion, but often guilt nonetheless - because taking a young life is a very grave thing to do indeed ... even if the law is more lenient!)

Still off-topic ... :rolleyes: ;D]

Peace :)
Reply

zanjabeela
11-22-2006, 09:11 AM
^ No, no, glo, it was not a petty point at all! I think it was an important part of the discussion to highlight, absolutely. But I guess thats for Christina to say, huh? :)

Thank you!
Peace :)
Reply

Abdul Fattah
11-22-2006, 05:22 PM
Selam aleykum
As a convert myself, I strongly advise you to look those things up as much as possible, you might be pleasantly surprised by the answer, take the issue of apostasy for example:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...ates#post20595

Another issue you mentioned is following your husband. That is a tricky one I'll agree. Here are some links, sorry for bombarding you with so many information, but InshaAllah you'll benefit from it.

Meaning of wife's obedience to her husband:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544396
Scope of wife's obedience to her husband:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544106
Husband's responsibility for wife's sins:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547336
Mutual rights in marriage:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544152
Status of woman in Islam:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544308

Bests of luck, and please don't hesitate with asking further questions.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
11-22-2006, 06:58 PM
May peace and tranquility be with all who follow God's guidance,

You have reached a stage in your life where you have discovered the reality of our existence - that we are the servants of the Most Merciful, God, Glorified and Exalted is He. He created us all and brought us into this life, thinking, reflecting and communicating with one another. He has given us the opportunity to come towards Him and develop our relationship with Him, to perform righteous deeds so that by our mercy to others we may feel a taste of God's infinite mercy upon all of us. He did not create us and abandon us to be left in chaos and confusion. God Almighty, the Creator and Sustainer, revealed the following in the Holy Qur'an:

23:115-116. Did you think that We had created you in sport without any purpose, and that you would not be brought back to Us? Glorified is God, the Sovereign, the Truth! There is none worthy of worship except Him, Lord of the Noble Throne.

Instead, He has given us a clear purpose and out of His mercy He has continually sent messengers to guide us back to that lofty standard of devotion to Him alone. Our devotion to Him is the only means by which we can finally bring peace and tranquility into our hearts and reach a higher level of understanding. Submission to God liberates the soul and elevates one beyond the state of those who are lost in worldly affairs, heedless of the reality of our short time in this world.

Eventually, all of us will leave this world. Death will catch each and every single person. And as our bodies are returned to the soil the only thing we will take with us into the next life is our faith and submission to God.
What did we do with our life? What did we do with the infinite opportunities God provided us with? Did we use it to strengthen our connection with Him and bring peace into our lives and the lives of others? Or did we fall prey to the whisperings of evil and deviate from the path of truth, the path of guidance? As human beings we must come to the realization that underscores everything in life:

6:162-163. Say: Verily, my prayers, my sacrifice, my life and my death are for Allah, Lord of the Universe. He has no partner. And to this have I been bidden and I am amongst the first of those who bow to His will.

Are we prepared to submit ourselves to to the will of Our Merciful Creator? Or will we fall prey to hesitation and indecision on the most clear of matters? How can anyone hesitate over accepting the path of submission to God? Was this not the path of all the righteous prophets who came to guide mankind? Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all) all had the same message.

2:130-131. And who turns away from the path of Abraham except one who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, "Submit ." He said, "I have submitted myself to the Lord of the Universe.

"submit" in this verse stems from the same word as Islam (submission). Islam is the natural way of all human beings: we have a natural propensity to turn to Our Creator - that is the only way to bring true peace into our souls. This is our natural inclination but we surpress it with cultural attitudes, material desires, societal pressures, and irrational doubts. Push past that and begin the up-hill climb towards God:

90:4-17 We certainly have created man in a state of constant toil. Does he think that no one has power over him? He says boastfully: “I have spent wealth in abundance.” Does he think that no one sees him?
Have We not given him two eyes, and a tongue and two lips and pointed out to him the two conspicuous ways? But he attempts not the uphill climb; and what will make you comprehend the uphill climb? [It is] to free a slave, or to feed in a day of hunger an orphan nearly related, or the poor one lying in the dust. Then he is of those who believe and exhort one another to patience and exhort one another to mercy.


Dear sister, we invite you to accept Islam, accept the way of eternal submission to the One Lord who created all things. We invite you to join a family of 1.6 billion who worship God around the globe, praying to Him, bowing and prostrating before Him. Not a second goes by but there is someone in the world crying to God in prayer, experiencing the strength of God's love and compassion. We invite you to follow this path, the path of all the prophets of God and to abandon the way of those who cling to irrational doubts. Islam is the natural path, the way of reason and understanding. There are over 750 verses in the Qur'an which call upon people to reflect, contemplate, and ponder. Reflect on our lives and you will realize that we did not arise without purpose.

Islam is the way of balance and moderation in all aspects. It recognizes the rights and responsibilites of everyone and never places the burden on one side. The Prophet said: 'None but a noble man treats women in an honorable manner, and none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî). Ask whatever questions you wish, and you will find the answers. Every issue you have mentioned is from the common misunderstandings westerners have about Islam, and by the grace of Allah swt, we have rational sound answers to every single one of them. Islam encourages you to ask and learn, and there will be much opportunity for you to do this as a new muslim. The Prophet said: 'The cure for ignorance is to question.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd).

Contemplate the life of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and you will see a man who called upon others to follow the way of God, for which he was rejected by his people, persecuted and driven out of his home along with his followers. He was a man who rejected the material pleasures of this world and gained nothing from his divine mission except the pleasure and reward of God. Why did he go through all this suffering? For what purpose? It was because He was the mssenger of God and intended to fulfill his duty, which he did. Through God's message, he elevated mankind above the paucity of enslavement to worldly affairs and material desires to the liberating way of submission to God alone. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught us: 'Wealth does not come from having great riches; (true) wealth is contentment of the soul.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim).
And he also said: 'The similitude of the one who contemplates his Lord versus the one who does not is that of the living versus the dead.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim).

Awaken your soul to the contemplation of your Lord. It is not something difficult; it is very easy. Make the following declaration with sincerity to God:

"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except God, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His final messenger."

Take this declaration in your hand and heart and live by it. You can do it. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 'The religion (of Islam) is easy. No one ever made it difficult without it becoming too much for him. So avoid extremes and strike a balance, do the best you can and be cheerful, and seek Allah's help (through prayer) in the morning, and evening, and part of the night.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

"I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except God, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His final messenger."

Just copy those same words and repeat them and you have done it. You have come to the way of God.

Peace be with you, dear sister in Islam.
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- Qatada -
11-22-2006, 08:02 PM
:salamext:


Masha'Allaah beautiful post bro Ansar :) All you gota say is

'Laa illAllaah illAllaah, Muhammadur RasoolAllaah'

[there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah.



Peace. :)
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