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Ibn Abi Ahmed
11-22-2006, 09:39 PM
:sl:

More than a third of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank are built on privately owned Palestinian land, an Israeli campaign group has reported.

Peace Now says nearly 40% of the land the settlements sit on is, according to official data, "effectively stolen" from Palestinian landowners.

This, the group says, is a violation of Israel's own laws.

Settlements in the occupied West Bank are illegal under international law, although Israel rejects this.

About 430,000 Jews live in these residential areas in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Leaked data

Peace Now called on the Israeli government to return the private land to its Palestinian owners.

In recent years the Israeli government has said repeatedly that it respects Palestinian property rights in the West Bank.

An Israeli official has said the government is reviewing the report.

The data on which the findings are based comes from a 2004 survey by the Civil Administration, which manages the civilian aspects of Israel's occupation of the West Bank.

The data was leaked to Peace Now via an official in the Civil Administration. The group says the government had refused to give this information to it.

The group says that the data it has received has been "hidden by the State for many years, for fear that the revelation of these facts could damage its international relations".

According to the report, 86.4% of the Maale Adumim settlement block, the largest in the West Bank, is built on private Palestinian land, and not on what the Israeli government refers to as "state land".

The settlement is home to 32,372 people and lies due east of Jerusalem.

'Violation' of Israeli law

"The claim by the State and settlers that the settlements have been constructed on state land is misleading and false," Peace Now says.

"The vast majority of settlement construction was done against the law of the land and the Supreme Court ruling and therefore unauthorised.

"[The data] indicates the direct violation of Israeli law carried out by the State itself, driven by the architects and leaders of the settlement movement."

In 1979 the Israeli High Court forbade the establishment of settlements on privately-owned Palestinian that has been seized by Israel for military purposes.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is at its core a conflict over land and in the West Bank property rights, BBC Jerusalem correspondent Crispin Thorold says.

This is the area which Palestinians want to be the basis of a future independent state.

If confirmed the findings could have major implications for any future peace deal.

Some of the settlements that the Israeli government wants to be included within its final borders are built on land overwhelmingly owned by Palestinian individuals. Peace Now is an Israeli group that monitors Israel settlements in the West Bank.

The oldest peace movement in Israel, it advocates the setting up of a Palestinian state on land occupied by Israel in 1967.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6168752.stm
Very interesting. The full document released by PeaceNow! is in the second box on the right as you scroll down.

:w:
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sonz
11-23-2006, 07:32 AM
The controversial issue of Jewish settlements being built on occupied Palestinian territories, which began in 1967 as a means of controlling and annexing Palestinian lands occupied during the “1967 War”, is a decisive factor in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and the future of the peace process between the two sides.

The concept of Israeli settlements is driven by political and ideological considerations which means that the very existence of Jewish settlements serves the strategic, military, and economic interests of the Israeli government.

In June 1967 Israel decided expanding the borders of east Jerusalem from 6.5 km² (the boundaries as designated by Jordan) to 70.5 km² to include lands from many West Bank villages.

Israel always claimed that there are only 141 settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, But satellite images showed that there are at least 282 Jewish built-up areas in the West Bank including east Jerusalem, covering 150.5 km².

The expansions of those settlements are in most cases larger than the settlements themselves.

Numerous Palestinian experts and activists spoke against those illegal settlements, calling for the urgent dismantling of all of them, but no action was ever taken in this regards. Israel considers those Jewish built-up areas in east Jerusalem neighborhoods of the municipal Jerusalem and not settlements.

Using maps and figures leaked from inside the Israeli government, an Israeli advocacy group report released yesterday found that 39 percent of the land used by Jewish settlements in the West Bank is private Palestinian property.

Settlement Watch project of Peace Now, which supports the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and believes that Jewish settlements in the West Bank, where more than 250,000 Jews are believed to be living, stand as a major obstacle in achieving peace, said that the settlements are a clear violation of international and Israeli law.

According to The Washington Post, the report also showed that much of the land that Israeli officials say would remain as part of the Jewish state under any final peace agreement, including some of the settlement blocs inside the so-called Separation barrier, belongs to the Palestinians.

86 percent of Maale Adumim Settlement bloc, the largest Israeli colony in the West Bank with a population of approximately 25,000 and plans for many more in the near future, is built on private Palestinian land, the report states, adding that more than 35 percent of the settlement of Ariel, which cuts deep into the northern West Bank, also sits on private Palestinian property.

The report, based on 2004 database of the Civil Administration, which controls the civilian aspects of Israel’s presence in the West Bank, challenges the Israeli government's claim that it avoids building on private Palestinian land.

Israel's government has long claimed that West Bank Jewish settlements are only built on untitled property known as "state land" or on property of unclear legal status, asserting that it fully respects Palestinian private property and only uses land there legally.

In some cases, Israeli courts ruled that unauthorized outposts built on private Palestinian property should be dismantled, but such orders were never implemented.

Israeli officials didn’t comment on the report but said they were studying its findings.

54 percent of the lands used by the Jewish settlements, according to the report, which defines private property in the West Bank as land registered by Palestinians before 1968, is state land while nearly 6 percent is designated "survey land," in other words; its legal status is unclear.

Only 1.3 percent of the settlement areas is "Jewish land," stated the report, which accuses Israel of seizing private lands in most cases, citing "military purposes."

The report, however, didn’t tackle Jerusalem, which Israel has annexed and does not consider part of the West Bank.

Most of the world nations agree with the view that East Jerusalem is occupied and that most of the Jewish settlements built in the occupied lands are illegal under international law.

According to International law, any occupying power should protect private property. But Israel has continuously refused to admit that it does take lands without legal justification.

The Jewish state has since 1967, been investing hugely in establishing and expanding the settlements in the Occupied Territories, both in terms of the area of land they occupy and in terms of population.

And the result; 380,000 Israeli citizens, according to B’tselem, are now living in the West Bank settlements, and settlements in East Jerusalem.
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-Shakirah-
11-23-2006, 02:06 PM
'The Muslim ummah is like one body, when the eye hurts, the rest of the body feels the pain and when the head hurts the whole body aches'

salam
I have never felt so passionately about anything else in my life then I have for my suffering brothers and sisters in Palestine. Many a times i'd just burst out crying because a part of my heart is in deep pain......I feel so hopeless that I am unable to do anything for their situation.
However recently I stumbled upon an organisation called, 'Friends of Al-Aqsa.' They like my other charities and organisations sre doing their part in fighting for the Freedom of Palestine.
One of their many campaigns is to boycott goods and services from certain brands that fund the Israeli army that are causing destruction and ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
To name a few: coca cola, Mcdonalds, johnson & johnson, Marks & Spencers, Tesco and Huggies.
All we have to do is stop buying from these brands! At times we may feel, 'What's me not buying one can of coke gonna do?' But believe me it is something. The whole of the racist South African Apaheid regeme was brought down by the rest of the world boycotting a few of the everyday brands.
Pls. let's do our part. Get in touch with me if u need more info. Pls I beg of you.....
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Ninth_Scribe
11-24-2006, 06:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ähmed
:sl:
Very interesting. The full document released by PeaceNow! is in the second box on the right as you scroll down.

:w:
The settlements aren't the only thing that violates the law ~ but the LAW gets no respect these days.

Ninth Scribe
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
11-25-2006, 04:53 PM
:sl:

And we find this topic ignored by many of our pro-israeli members who believe that everything Israel is doing is within the law. Sad.
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-25-2006, 05:39 PM
:salamext:

They will befriend israel if they see it benefit them, they only care about their own pleasure.

If this offends then realise its only the truth, as they say the truth hurts !
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IzakHalevas
11-25-2006, 06:25 PM
And we find this topic ignored by many of our pro-israeli members who believe that everything Israel is doing is within the law. Sad.
It is also against international law to shoot a kassam rocket, and hit an old lady watering her plants in Israeli territory which is Pre-1948. Of course, I find no condemnations of the murderous Palestinian militants who commited such a crime. So I guess the ignoring of topics is not just a trait of our pro-israeli members. The entire anti-israeli part of the forum shows little concern about an old lady watering her plants killed by Palestinians because they chose to put nails in there bombs.

The settlements are not "illegal" as sometimes charged. The Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply to settlements even though you will often hear the claim that it does. Israel took over the land in a defensive war in 1967 from rulers (Jordan, Egypt) who themselves had recently acquired control of the land by aggressive war. The only internationally recognized agreements are those of the Oslo process which do not in any sentence prohibit settlements. At some points in time Israel has voluntarily agreed to a temporary halt to new settlements in anticipation of negotiating breakthroughs. But the repeated reversion to terrorism by the Palestinian Arabs has ended such restraint. The endlessly repeated refrain about "occupied territories" is propaganda, since a) the territories never belonged to Palestinian Arabs, b) the Palestinian Authority was given control of the areas, and c) the only reason Israel continues to exert control is in reaction to Palestinian Arab violence.
The United Nations has frequently addressed the question of Israel's policies and activity of Israelis in the territories, starting with Resolution 242, passed right after the 1967 war. That Resolution seeks a just resolution of the conflict and calls for withdrawal and mutual recognition, but it says nothing about legality. Resolution 338, passed after the 1973 Yom Kippur war, requires Israel and the Arabs to negotiate peace. By insisting that the Palestinians negotiate with Isreal, the Security Council Resolution implicitly agrees that the occupation itself does not violate international law. Later Security Council resolutions - numbered 446, 452 and 465 - do indeed condemn Israel's policy of building settlements in the occupied territories and declare that these settlements have "no legal validity." However, these are political statements reflecting the balance of power in the UN and not a reasoned legal analysis. The Resolutions are not binding on Israel and do not of themselves create illegality.

In Hebron, the Jewish community existed throughout the centuries of Ottoman rule, until the massacre during the Arab rioting of 1929.

From 1922 through 1928 the relationship between Jews and Arabs in Palestine was relatively peaceful. However, in late 1928 a new phase of violence began with minor disputes between Jews and Arabs about the right of Jews to pray at the Western Wall (Kotel) in Jerusalem. These arguments led to an outbreak of Arab violence in August 1929 when Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, fomented Arab hatred by accusing the Jews of endangering the mosques and other sites holy to Islam. Observers heard Husseini issue the call: Itback al-Yahud "Slaughter the Jews!"
On August 22, 1929 the leaders of the Yishuv met with the British Deputy High Commissioner to alert him of their fears of a large Arab riot. The British officials assured them that the government was in control of the situation. The following day the Riots of 1929 erupted throughout the Palestine Mandate, lasting for seven days.
On Friday, August 23, Arab mobs attacked Jews in Jerusalem, Motza, Hebron, Safed, Jaffa, and other parts of the country. The Old City of Jerusalem was hit particularly hard. By the next day, the Haganah was able to mount a defense and further attacks in Jerusalem were repulsed. But, the violence in Jerusalem generated rumors throughout the country, many carrying fabricated accounts of Jewish attempts to defile Muslim holy places, all to inflame the Arab residents. Villages were plundered and destroyed by Arab mobs. While attacks on Jews in Tel Aviv and Haifa were thwarted by Jewish defenses, there were Jewish deaths in Hebron, where 67 Jewish men and women were slaughtered and Safed, where 18 Jews were killed, as well as scattered other losses totaling 133 Jewish deaths, with more than 300 wounded.
The Arab violence in Hebron was one of the worst atrocities in the modern history of Israel. On the afternoon of Friday, August 23, 1929 Jerusalem Arabs came to Hebron with false reports of Jews murdering Arabs during the rioting there, even saying thousands of Arabs had been killed. Despite the fact that Jews and Arabs in Hebron had been on good terms, a mass of frenzied Arab rioters formed and proceeded to the Hebron Yeshiva where a lone student was murdered. The next day, the Jewish Sabbath, the killing continued as an Arab mob of hundreds surrounded homes where Jews sought refuge, broke in and murdered scores of Jews in a bloody rampage.
The dead Jews that day included Eliezer Dan Slonim, a man highly esteemed by the Arabs. He was the director of the local English-Palestine bank whose many clients were Arabs, and was the sole Jewish member of the Hebron Municipal Council. He had many friends among the Arab elders, who had promised to protect him. Twenty-two people died in Slonim's house that day including his wife and two young children.
By the end of the riot, during which the British police did nothing to protect the Jews or stop the violence, sixty-seven Jews were dead and hundreds wounded. The survivors were isolated in a police station for three days while the Arabs rampaged through their houses, stealing and destroying Jewish property, unmolested by the British authorities. At the end of the three days the Jews were sent to Jerusalem, exiled from their homes for the crime of being a victim of the Arab riot. Hebron's ancient Jewish quarter was empty and destroyed.
Such settlements as Neve Ya'acov and the Gush Etsion block were established under the British Mandatory Administration, which allowed Jewish settlement in these areas. Even though British Mandate Authorities, particularly in the latter period of the Mandate, were not sympathetic to the Zionist cause, they nevertheless permitted the establishment of Jewish settlements in all areas west of the Jordan River, implementing the League of Nations Mandate. In fact,the Mandate called for Jewish settlement in all of the areas under British control including the almost 80% of the Mandate land that the British gave to create Trans-Jordan and prohibited Jewish settlement there.
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Ninth_Scribe
11-25-2006, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
It is also against international law to shoot a kassam rocket, and hit an old lady watering her plants in Israeli territory which is Pre-1948. Of course, I find no condemnations of the murderous Palestinian militants who commited such a crime. So I guess the ignoring of topics is not just a trait of our pro-israeli members. The entire anti-israeli part of the forum shows little concern about an old lady watering her plants killed by Palestinians because they chose to put nails in there bombs.
If you want a shot a the title, the concern was that the world had turned a blind eye to the old ladies of Palestine who were watering their own plants until the sons of Benjamin and Judah decided to go for the gold, as it were. There were a variety of other ways this could have been accomplished. It should not have degraded into what it's become. Now we're arguing over which came first, the chicken or the egg... and who started it? This is very childish.

My concern is focused on the welfare of the old ladies watering their plants, regardless of which of the tribes of the sons of Abraham they come from, but the sons of Benjamin and Judah have made this a very dangerous task, given their methodology, which I can see, hasn't changed a bit since the days of old!

I know they weren't soley to blame, that there were foreign interests that sought to capitalise from the Judeans. The bigger picture reveals an enormous level of manipulation by the world leaders, promising rewards that are not as 'equitable' as they were made out to be, for those who agreed to play along.

Perhaps some are even motivated by religion. But it is hardly appropriate to force the hand of Moshiah while disengaged from the very Law Moshiah is expected to uphold.

Glances over at the hour glass... here we go again!

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
11-25-2006, 08:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
:salamext:

They will befriend israel if they see it benefit them, they only care about their own pleasure.
Not every Muslim tribe agrees with that statement, which is the other end of the problem.

Two kings spoke on behalf of all the Muslim tribes, concerning Israel, and they did not have the right to do that. Every tribal chief who had a legal claim should have been invited to offer a concession and make a demand. That's how it was done in the old school. It's just a matter of respect. Because they were not respected, the tribes went into different directions... so, here we go again!

This matter will not end until every tribal chief who has a right to speak on the matter has Assembled and come to an arrangement.

It is their lawful right... written into ALL of your holy books.

Ninth Scribe
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Twotribes
11-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Isreal should obey its own laws. This is a given, failure to do so weakens them and aids any enemy they have. This is true of any Government, if they cant be trusted to follow their own laws why should they be trusted in any other matter.
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sister herb
11-27-2006, 04:14 PM
In Geneva Convention (what also Israel has signed) says very clearly that people whose live under occupation, has right for armed resistance.

:okay:

In this case, occupation is terrorism, not those rockets.
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lavikor201
11-27-2006, 08:07 PM
In Geneva Convention (what also Israel has signed) says very clearly that people whose live under occupation, has right for armed resistance.
The Geneva agreement signed includes Palestinian Arab pledges to recognize Israel, renounce terror, end anti-Israel incitement, remain disarmed etc.

Since not one of these things the Palestinians agreed to do has been accomplished, how on earth should Israel be put up to follow the treaty but not the Palestinians?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
11-27-2006, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
In Geneva Convention (what also Israel has signed) says very clearly that people whose live under occupation, has right for armed resistance.
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The Geneva agreement signed includes Palestinian Arab pledges to recognize Israel, renounce terror, end anti-Israel incitement, remain disarmed etc.

Since not one of these things the Palestinians agreed to do has been accomplished, how on earth should Israel be put up to follow the treaty but not the Palestinians?
They are under occupation and as you agreed, they have a right to armed resistance by the terms of the Geneva Agreement. The Palestinians were terrorized by Israeli soldiers out of their homes. Their houses were demolished, and the Israel's treated them like animals, like Hani. I notice the video was ignored.

http://www.islamicboard.com/574472-post1.html

The settlements violate the law and Israel is notorious for breaking laws and getting away with it and then whining that it is others not obeying the law. Those who lived where the settlements are were kicked out, their land is occupied. Thus, by the Geneva Agreement, they are allowed armed resistance. There will be no anti-israeli incitement when Israel learns to follow Laws.
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IzakHalevas
11-27-2006, 09:00 PM
They are under occupation and as you agreed, they have a right to armed resistance by the terms of the Geneva Agreement.
Israel has the same right to defend itself, and the majority of attacks are not on the so called "occupying soldiers" but are in civilian areas. Notoriously, the 100% Jewish areas.

The settlements violate the law and Israel is notorious for breaking laws and getting away with it and then whining that it is others not obeying the law.
Any country has a right to whine when Palestinians sign an agreement and do not follow a single aspect of it, and then continue to cry in front of the world when Israel does not uphold there side.

There will be no anti-israeli incitement when Israel learns to follow Laws.
There will always be anti-israel incitement as long as there is still one Jew left in Israel.
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sister herb
11-27-2006, 10:14 PM
So called israelis are not live under of occupation. Jewism is religion, not race.

:playing:
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IzakHalevas
11-27-2006, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
So called israelis are not live under of occupation. Jewism is religion, not race.

:playing:
But the Jews as a people settled and lived on this land, before being expelled. The land was still rightfully theres. To say that the Arabs are any less occupiers than the Jews is obsurd! How do you think the Arabs got there? Did there armies waltz in with flowers of peace?
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Dahir
11-27-2006, 10:23 PM
Peace Now called on the Israeli government to return the private land to its Palestinian owners.
That's just the problem. Its PRIVATE land! The Israelis paid money for that land and have private ownership. They shouldn't be forced by the public to give up their private land.

In my opinion, this is just a political move by 'Peace Now' to win over Leftists in Israel.
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Woodrow
11-28-2006, 01:42 AM
I doubt if there will be any true peace between Israel and Palestinians until all outside nations stop poking their noses into their affairs.

People living in the area are very much aware that the survival of either is dependant upon the survival of the other. The only way that things can come about with fairness is for Palestinians and Israelis learn to honor the time old protocol of centuries ago when Jew and Muslim did live in Peace there.
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eagleye
02-04-2007, 08:28 PM
the problem, I think are the bullies exist in both sides. well if you look at the news, main troublemakers exist at the Palestinian territories. the fatah and the hamas fighting each other. cannot bear one cease fire, as it seems...
only provides us a detail where the guns should not be permitted at all.
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Ninth_Scribe
02-04-2007, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I doubt if there will be any true peace between Israel and Palestinians until all outside nations stop poking their noses into their affairs.

People living in the area are very much aware that the survival of either is dependant upon the survival of the other. The only way that things can come about with fairness is for Palestinians and Israelis learn to honor the time old protocol of centuries ago when Jew and Muslim did live in Peace there.
I'm with you. It's a family affair and neither side should have been running to strangers, telling them only their half of the story. I'm sure the foreigners meant well, but they all acted on the one side of the story. Judging from what I've heard on this and other forums, there's been way too much of the pot calling the kettle black. We should all back off.

Ninth Scribe
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