Children of Abraham

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

everday, at least 5 times, Muslims round the world as Allah Subanahoo Wa Ta'Allah to bless, exalt and/or have mercy on the Prophet Muhammed Sallahoo Alaihe Wa' Salaam and his seed as HE did with Abraham(as) and his seed.

YET, Muslims seem to detest the Jews and curse them and despise them and even hate with a passion that appears to be unequalled in history, even MORE than they hate Pharoah.

i have seen "westerners" whose feelings on Muslims come close to that, being a westerner myself. BUT i have NEVER met a Jew who reciprocates the feelings the same way, EVER! (never been to Israel though)

i used to wear American/Israeli friendship pins and i was frequently stopped by Israelis who wanted to know where they could get one. i tried to keep extras in my pocket, and thus i could usually give them one. Astaghfirullah, i would usually go into some anti-arab tirade. THEY would always reel back in horror and tell me i was wrong! they would, in fact, end up as apologists for those Arabs. they would end up explaining how economic conditions along with a lack of infrastructure made things in the region abysmal for many. they would always say that they held on to some hope that differences could be resolved and that Arabs would be able to prosper just like Israelis! (OK, MAYBE i thought they were just a little nuts. :embarrass )

with all that in mind, and now being a Muslim, i wonder...what are the effects of our hatred for those that we are asking Allah Subhanahoo Wa Ta'Allah to treat "us" (as followers of the Prophet(pbuh)) as??

i'm NOT asking for people to justify their feelings regarding Israel. i'm asking are we, in fact, asking Allah Subhanahoo Wa Ta'Allah to "curse us" as we curse them?

sorry to be such a n00b, and Astaghfirullah, if this question offends anyone.

:w:

Yusuf

[Ninth_Scribe]

:sl:

everday, at least 5 times, Muslims round the world as Allah Subanahoo Wa Ta'Allah to bless, exalt and/or have mercy on the Prophet Muhammed Sallahoo Alaihe Wa' Salaam and his seed as HE did with Abraham(as) and his seed.

YET, Muslims seem to detest the Jews and curse them and despise them and even hate with a passion that appears to be unequalled in history, even MORE than they hate Pharoah.

Yusuf

If this forum has taught me anything it taught me these "relatives" don't know anything about each other. There is an almost complete breakdown in communication and there is no council where religious scholars can work to even out and re-align their books, according to their generations, which is the only thing that actually distinguishes them in the first place! I'm doing this myself because at my wits end here... and it's one chaotic mess!

Let's see, just picking from our generation and within the last 30 days of lessons:

A thread on this forum was created suggesting that a Hezbollah soldier who was captured was a spy because he bore a tattoo and tattoos are haram. This was corrected when MahdiSoldier came on and announced that, according to Shia scholars, tattoos are permited! None of the Sunni members of this board were aware of that.

This led to a revelation on my part that Sunni laws and Jewish laws were almost identical, since the Jews view tattoos as being haram as well. Jews also ban the "cutting of the flesh in honor of the dead" - as did Suddam Hussein (a Sunni), who banned the Shia in Iraq from participating in the Ashrah festival (which incorporates this tradition).

The Jews floored me by creating a new state and calling it Israel because (draws a long breath):

1) They were the ones who separated from the state of Israel, back in the day, hired the equivilent of a hit-man (the Assyrian Army) to wiped out their brothers (Israel) and then tried to bail on the payments they offered to Assyria! This is what caused the first exile.

2) Unlike the last return from Babylon, this modern return is completely left of center. They not only created this new state and called it 'Israel' (which is just plain weird), but they had the **** to claim the land of all 12 tribes when drawing their borders! Needless to say, there isn't a single soul of an Israelite remaining who would want this, it's not fair to the Palestinians (who have done nothing wrong), but according to the Book of Numbers (Chapter 36, verse 9), it's forbidden for one tribe to claim the inheritence of land from any other tribe of Israel. So the spirit of the Torah, which they have conveniently forgot existed, is out-raged when it sits in those parts of the land.

Everyone is involved in a full-on, blood-bath... and they have no idea who it is they're really fighting, and WHY! How easy was this to accomplish? If I show you guys will you even bother to learn?

Follow the link and pick up the DVD and watch episode 2:12 called "The O.G."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...K/theocshow-20

That's how EASY it was to start all this! For the original shooter (who is not who you think it is), the LESS you people know of each other, the better.

Ninth Scribe

[YusufNoor]

a) that wasn't my question.

b) that's a link to a TV show :muddlehea :muddlehea :muddlehea

did i miss something?

care to be a little more, erm, informative?? :embarrass :embarrass

[IzakHalevas]

Oh don't worry here in Turkey there are some neighborhoods where you should not have a Palestinian flag waving. You wont get hurt, but there are a lot of arab jews who like israel a little to much. as a convert to judaism, i can see all sides.

All sides have extremists, but there are certianly more on one side because of population, and what is taught in schools.

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[Keltoi]

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the JEWS and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

What's funny about this is that the context in which this poster is using this verse was supposedly the wrong one according to a similar thread I read awhile back....

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...s-friends.html

[YusufNoor]

Oh don't worry here in Turkey there are some neighborhoods where you should not have a Palestinian flag waving. You wont get hurt, but there are a lot of arab jews who like israel a little to much. as a convert to judaism, i can see all sides.

All sides have extremists, but there are certianly more on one side because of population, and what is taught in schools.

Shalom Izak,

my questions deals more with the prayer aspect. i was taught to end each prayer with a du'a (which is what most other religions would refer to as prayer) asking Allah (SWT) to exalt/bless the Prophet (pbuh) and his seed/followers and He did for Abraham(as) and his seed/followers, as well to extend His mercy in the same fashion.

how does our (Muslim) feelings towards Israel affect the du'a?

to the brother who wrote the comment about the rest of the tribes, it's a good point. most people don't realize that Israel should really be named Judah . but that's another thread/topic.

as for seeing both sides, ANY Muslim born since the creation of Israel is likely to have only 1 view. but that's another thread/topic, also.

peace,

Yusuf

[IzakHalevas]

Good point.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

For a discussion on 5:51, see the link provided by Keltoi. This would be off-topic in this thread.

Regards

[Ninth_Scribe]

a) that wasn't my question.

b) that's a link to a TV show :muddlehea :muddlehea :muddlehea

did i miss something?

care to be a little more, erm, informative?? :embarrass :embarrass

Oh, you'd have to watch... but it would be well worth it (what you learn from a TV show). As for the poetic version of a family melt-down?

"This Is How A Heart Breaks"

Don't you wanna go for a ride
Just keep your hands inside
And make the most out of life
Now don't you take it for granted
Life is like a mean machine
It made a mess outta me
It left me caught between
Like an angry dream I was stranded
I was stranded

And I'm steady but I'm starting to shake
And I don't know how much more I can take

This is it now
Everybody get down
This is all I can take
This is how a heart breaks

You take a hit now
you feel it break down
Make you stay wide awake
This is how a heart breaks.

This is how a heart breaks.
This is how a heart breaks.

[Goku]

Oh don't worry here in Turkey there are some neighborhoods where you should not have a Palestinian flag waving. You wont get hurt, but there are a lot of arab jews who like israel a little to much. as a convert to judaism, i can see all sides.

All sides have extremists, but there are certianly more on one side because of population, and what is taught in schools.

Thats interesting, i dont know many people who convert to Judaism, which religion did you used to be under before your conversion to Judaism?

[IzakHalevas]

Thats interesting, i dont know many people who convert to Judaism, which religion did you used to be under before your conversion to Judaism?

I'd rather not say for personal reasons. Nothing about you, many have asked, and I just don't feel, that I want to talk about it. It has created a rift between me and my family.

[Goku]

I'd rather not say for personal reasons. Nothing about you, many have asked, and I just don't feel, that I want to talk about it. It has created a rift between me and my family.

Thats OK, I hope the rift between you and your family is resolved soon, Insha'Allah.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Even i a family there are quarrels..

and this tread is like many other post by muslim who say that we should be apologetic for our actions towards Israel..

that is wrong...

In terms of action and aggresion the Isrealis are the ones who have usurped the land and tortured the Palestinians and muslim.

And yet we are not allowed revenge or defence.

Israel have a right for self defence bu muslim dont?

Laughable..

the fight continue the defence for muslim continue.

I still say my prayers for the curse of those are the aggresors,,who say peace but they are the ones who does harm.

In Islam defence and agression is allowed when you are attacked,but i find it sad that too many muslim would rather rest on their laurels or fall back on the theory of "peace wihout effort"

Islam mean peace but peace for all sides not just one side.

Too many moderate muslim forget that the call to arms will be sent but they will lax..

There is a hadith,when the Mahdi will call for muslim to raise arms to fight for justice,but muslim will scorn him and be silent..for they enjoy their own security and confort at the expense of the Ummah.

So again,do not mistake the aggresors,whom is Israel and any toehr will receive their payment in due,and my prayer to them is also for Allah to curse them,in this world and in the next..

My dua is simply,Oh Allah increase the patience and faith of those whom are facing trials in their draily lives,curse those who seek to oppress the Ummah.

Inshallah...

[Zulkiflim]

Shalom Izak,

my questions deals more with the prayer aspect. i was taught to end each prayer with a du'a (which is what most other religions would refer to as prayer) asking Allah (SWT) to exalt/bless the Prophet (pbuh) and his seed/followers and He did for Abraham(as) and his seed/followers, as well to extend His mercy in the same fashion.

how does our (Muslim) feelings towards Israel affect the du'a?

to the brother who wrote the comment about the rest of the tribes, it's a good point. most people don't realize that Israel should really be named Judah . but that's another thread/topic.

as for seeing both sides, ANY Muslim born since the creation of Israel is likely to have only 1 view. but that's another thread/topic, also.

peace,

Yusuf

Salaam,

Did you know that in the time of the Prophet muhammad saw the jews of 3 tribes were punished for their distrustufulness.
And in that time the prayers were just like us to pray and exalt the Propeht and his followers.

So Allah kept his promise and exalted the children of seed of Propeht Araham...Jews and Arabs and many other races.....but that does not mean injustice and or other sin are allowed.

Propeht Solomon too was castigated and lost his kingship due to arrogance.

So justice and exaltation lies in Allah hands.

we muslim beleive that our greatesa nd best weapon and solace is Allah,and to Allah we pray for peace and justice.

So there is no harm to pray for what is in your hearts,the greter test lies in whether you receive it or not.

I would say that many muslim would have prayed for Ariel sharon punishment,and in my mind he received it,,,,but then again,in that is a test of compassion and reality.

Like the Quran say,trials is ever there for everyone.

The most important is to never lose faith...

[IzakHalevas]

Did you know that in the time of the Prophet muhammad saw the jews of 3 tribes were punished for their distrustufulness.

Oh? The punishment for distrustfulness is death?

[- Qatada -]

Oh? The punishment for distrustfulness is death?

All three tribes commited treason, all of them commited treason; two of them were expelled from the state and one was executed. Anyone who commit's treason, even in the US is punished by death. And Allaah Almighty knows best.


Check this thread out for a better understanding insha'Allaah because i may be wrong in what i said:


http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...s-medina.html?




Peace.

[lavikor201]

All three tribes commited treason, all of them commited treason

Really? Every man women and child in those tribes commited treason? I seriously doubt that!!! Interesting, I would think a Muslim out of all people would understand the concept of not punsihing all of a group for some of the groups actions.

I guess the concept is only supported in a certain context.

[YusufNoor]

Really? Every man women and child in those tribes commited treason? I seriously doubt that!!! Interesting, I would think a Muslim out of all people would understand the concept of not punsihing all of a group for some of the groups actions.

I guess the concept is only supported in a certain context.

:sl:

Shalom,


hmmm, i sense sarcasm...

ironic...

iirc, the 1st two tribes were expelled as Woodrow's article showed.

Really? Every man women and child in those tribes commited treason? I seriously doubt that!!!

AND with good reason, just the men and 1 woman who was guilty of killing one of the believers.

I would think a Muslim out of all people would understand the concept of not punsihing all of a group for some of the groups actions.

true, true, but what about a Jew????

I guess the concept is only supported in a certain context

if left to the Prophet Sallalahoo Alaihe Wa Salaam, as in Makkah, amnesty was declared for all but a handful (who ended up being spared)

so where, oh where DID the decision come from. let's have a looksy at Woodrow's arcticle, shall we?

just this part:

With each breach of the treaty the penalty was increased. Even though the other two tribes had been expelled, the Banu Qurayzah had been given the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless they reneged on the treaty, again with potentially extremely dangerous consequences to the Muslims. After the battle of the trench was won, the fortress in which the Banu Qurayzah lived was besieged and they surrendered after a short while. As was Muhammad's (S) custom, they were judged by the rules of their own scripture, the Tawrah (Torah) and traditions (Talmud), and were asked to select an individual (Sa'd bin Mu'adh), from their allies, the tribe of Aws, who they could trust as their judge.

hmmph, turns out you were right after all!


ironic...


peace,

:w:

[Nuseyba bintkab]

we are all children of abraham