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View Full Version : need ur votes in a poll!



rubiesand
11-24-2006, 07:19 PM
:sl:

Bro's Sis's cmon please add your vote to this Newsweek Poll

The Q is: Is it a good idea for European nations to ban the Muslim veil?

So far the totals are:

Yes - 54%
No - 41%
Don't know - 5.6%

Come on have your say!:coolalien
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The Ruler
11-24-2006, 07:21 PM
:sl:

there sia nother one like this...but i dont even know if anyone actually bothers to look at these polls and the statistics :hmm:

:w:
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England
11-24-2006, 09:50 PM
In my honest opinion I don't particularly agree with the veil. With all due respect, to me it looks a backwards thing.

Take a look at this;
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006510287,00.html

According to this muslims go out shopping for jeans, t-shirts, jumpers etc in Pakistan like we do. But it seems that when they come here they opt for the veil which gives me the impression that it's being forced upon us and that the message given out is "Ha! In your face!"
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Muhammad
11-24-2006, 10:08 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by England
According to this muslims go out shopping for jeans, t-shirts, jumpers etc in Pakistan like we do. But it seems that when they come here they opt for the veil which gives me the impression that it's being forced upon us and that the message given out is "Ha! In your face!"
You are comparing two different people: people who are not so strong in their faith will of course wear whatever they want. But the people who wish to practise Islam properly are the ones that wear the veil. It is not a matter of being "two-faced" as it were. It's quite strange though, because the veil is there to hide one's face, yet it's at the front of the news we read today. People complain at a gesture of modesty, but it's fine for others to expose their private parts ("in your face" too)? I am quite confused at this, which is more backward?
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England
11-24-2006, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
Greetings,

You are comparing two different people: people who are not so strong in their faith will of course wear whatever they want. But the people who wish to practise Islam properly are the ones that wear the veil. It is not a matter of being "two-faced" as it were. It's quite strange though, because the veil is there to hide one's face, yet it's at the front of the news we read today. People complain at a gesture of modesty, but it's fine for others to expose their private parts ("in your face" too)? I am quite confused at this, which is more backward?
With the veil it looks like you've got something to hide. Covering your face with a piece of clothing doesn't look 21st Century. Hoodies are banned in many parts of this country,such as the pub, nightclubbing, restaurants etc because again people use to cover their face which looks intimidating. If I came to a muslim woman wearing a veil and I spoke to her I wouldn't know where to look, would I look at the cloth, the floor, the ceiling?
Veils should definately not be allowed in work, schools, hospitals etc as it would be a breach of health and safety.

From what I have seen people in Pakistan take their religion very seriously.
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Muhammad
11-24-2006, 10:47 PM
Hello England,

Originally Posted by England
With the veil it looks like you've got something to hide.
That is the purpose of the veil: women are hiding their faces.

Covering your face with a piece of clothing doesn't look 21st Century.
Perhaps that is because in some places, 21st century means exposing one's private parts. Perhaps others will feel that in the 21st century, religion should not have a place. But religion is more than simply a "trend" of the time.

Hoodies are banned in many parts of this country,such as the pub, nightclubbing, restaurants etc because again people use to cover their face which looks intimidating.
I understand, but indimidation may also be due to the wearer; people who wear the veil tend not to be troublesome youths.

If I came to a muslim woman wearing a veil and I spoke to her I wouldn't know where to look, would I look at the cloth, the floor, the ceiling?
But women with veils are typically not out to go conversing with strangers. The whole purpose of the veil is to distance themselves from people being attracted by the beauty of one's face:

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an, 33:59]

And furthermore, Muslim men and women are taught to lower their gaze towards each other (with exceptions).

Veils should definately not be allowed in work, schools, hospitals etc as it would be a breach of health and safety.
People might say the same about beards. I understand from the indentification point of view, but not so much health and safety.

From what I have seen people in Pakistan take their religion very seriously.
But there are always bad eggs. Walking around in jeans and holding the hand of your "boyfriend" is certainly not taking Islam seriously.

Peace.
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rubiesand
11-24-2006, 11:02 PM
It's one thing not to like something but it's quite another to try and take away
someone else's freedom to wear it.
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*noor
11-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by England
If I came to a muslim woman wearing a veil and I spoke to her I wouldn't know where to look, would I look at the cloth, the floor, the ceiling?
with all due respect...looking at the cloth, the floor or the celing would be more appropriate than checking the woman out...don't you think?
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England
11-24-2006, 11:36 PM
I do not show any of my private parts. I have self dignity. I don't know anyone that does either. You cannot compare a beard to a large cloak covering someone from head to toe, no doubt partially covering their eye sight. A beard is nothing. If someone was to have a beard it would be no doubt be a short stubble which would cause no breach. Only tramps, that don't work or wash tend to have the long beards. As for the hoodies, not all are troublesome youngsters. I own a Bench hoody and I am far from troublesome. I can be one of the nicest guys you can meet unless someone takes advantage of that. I tend to see fanatics wearing veils holding banners saying "slander those who insult islam" and "death to non-muslims."
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Muhammad
11-24-2006, 11:55 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by England
I do not show any of my private parts. I have self dignity. I don't know anyone that does either.
That is good, however, there are many other people whose body parts are very revealing.

You cannot compare a beard to a large cloak covering someone from head to toe, no doubt partially covering their eye sight.
Fair enough, but I still don't see a reason why cloaks or veils should not be allowed at work and school with the sole excuse of "health and safety".

As for the hoodies, not all are troublesome youngsters.
That is true. So covering your face doesn't necessarily make one look intimidating.

I tend to see fanatics wearing veils holding banners saying "slander those who insult islam" and "death to non-muslims."
In which case the problem is not with the veil, it is misguided Muslims.

Peace :).
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England
11-25-2006, 12:16 AM
Fair enough, but I still don't see a reason why cloaks or veils should not be allowed at work and school with the sole excuse of "health and safety".
You could trip, you could bang into things, you could get it caught as it overhangs, it restricts your eyesight and no doubt your hearing too. In schools many children would be frightened to death seeing someone covered from head to toe.

That is true. So covering your face doesn't necessarily make one look intimidating.
Covering it with your face IS intimidating. I don't cover my face, I don't even have the hoods up when it's raining. Admittedly, I am FOR banning the hoodies in public places

In which case the problem is not with the veil, it is misguided Muslims.

Peace
Speak up, teach the "misguided muslims" the real Islam. Not many muslims at all are publicly defending themselves against these people. Show them the way, put yourself and everyone else at ease.
But no that isn't the reason.
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*noor
11-25-2006, 12:31 AM
Peace

Originally Posted by England
You could trip, you could bang into things, you could get it caught as it overhangs, it restricts your eyesight and no doubt your hearing too. In schools many children would be frightened to death seeing someone covered from head to toe.
Anyone can trip and bang into things, it doesn't take a veil to have accidents....believe me!! I'm 100% sure about that.

take it from someone who wears hijab, it does not restrict hearing and i don't wear a face cover but I have friends who do and you can tell they don't have trouble seeing. I think those children that are frightened are scared only because society teaches them to be scared of something that's different to what they are.

Originally Posted by England
Covering it with your face IS intimidating.
It's only intimidating if you think of it that way.
Some people need to realize that what you might find most convenient is intimidating to someone else and what you might find intimidating is convenient for someone else. As long as nobody's hurting you, there shouldn't be a problem. if you're happy following your religion there is no need to make it hard for others to follow their religion.

Originally Posted by England

Speak up, teach the "misguided muslims" the real Islam. Not many muslims at all are publicly defending themselves against these people. Show them the way, put yourself and everyone else at ease.
But no that isn't the reason.
well in Islam there is no compulsion so it ends at teaching others and explaining to them but they choose which path they want to follow.

Peace
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England
11-25-2006, 12:49 AM
I'm in a rush with this as I need to go up. Early morning. I'll reply to a bit more next time I'm on.

No-one's teaching or explaining to these fanatics about the "real Islam." There are children being moulded into extremists. These extremists are teaching these children that the West is the enemy and that they should attack innocent civilians for the government's faults or for being a Christian/Jew. Why isn't the "correct" message being spread.
Also, I read not so long ago that one in ten muslims would not tell the police if they knew of an imminent attack.
Why the silence?
http://clarityandresolve.com/archive..._uk_muslim.php
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lolwatever
11-25-2006, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by England
I'm in a rush with this as I need to go up. Early morning. I'll reply to a bit more next time I'm on.

No-one's teaching or explaining to these fanatics about the "real Islam." There are children being moulded into extremists. These extremists are teaching these children that the West is the enemy and that they should attack innocent civilians for the government's faults or for being a Christian/Jew. Why isn't the "correct" message being spread.
Also, I read not so long ago that one in ten muslims would not tell the police if they knew of an imminent attack.
Why the silence?
http://clarityandresolve.com/archive..._uk_muslim.php

erm what does that have to do with veils :?
god is time independent, so is his religion.
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Muhammad
11-25-2006, 10:53 AM
Greetings England,

Originally Posted by England
No-one's teaching or explaining to these fanatics about the "real Islam." There are children being moulded into extremists. These extremists are teaching these children that the West is the enemy and that they should attack innocent civilians for the government's faults or for being a Christian/Jew. Why isn't the "correct" message being spread.
How do you know nobody is trying to teach these "fanatics"? The media will always pick up on weird stories and individuals, but that does not mean they constitute the majority of our society. There are many, many Muslims out there trying to explain to everyone what Islam is about - you will find so many scholars and organisations condemning terrorism outright.

Anyone who knows what Islam is about will understand that it is far from being full of hatred and violence. Knowing the real Islam is most certainly not as hard as it might seem: one only has to know simple, basic teachings to realise the beauty and kindness that underlies the whole religion. Islam teaches to respect parents, neighbours, leaders, elders and even animals; to fulfil oaths; to be honest; to be just; to look after orphans and the poor; to smile and remove harm from the road; to speak good and never slander or backbite our brethren; to control anger; to be forgiving and thankful; to be patient; to be self-reproaching... to be so much more. Ansar Al-'Adl has done a very good job at listing so many of these Islamic teachings on his userpage. So how can it be possible to go "extreme"? Where is the violence? Life is valued so highly in Islam, that how is it possible to conceive there could be allowance for taking innocent life? For sure, the correct message is written plain and clear and this is the one that is spreading fast; this is the one that caused and still causes millions from all walks of life to embrace Islam and makes Islam the fastest growing religion. These children that are being "moulded" into extremists: I wonder how many really are. It is sad to hear that anyone would be doing such a thing, but perhaps the children you speak of are the ones that appear in TV programmes and youtube videos. Perhaps it is more accurate to ask a child in "real life". Perhaps it is time to walk into a madrasah and see for yourself what is really being taught.

Also, I read not so long ago that one in ten muslims would not tell the police if they knew of an imminent attack.
Why the silence?
http://clarityandresolve.com/archives/2006/09/10_of_uk_muslim.php
That site is quite clearly biased against Islam. I would prefer to accept poll results from a more reliable source. But anyway, if the "extremists" are in the minority, how many Muslims are really going to know of an "imminent attack" when most of them are good, practising people?

Peace :).
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