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Mateen
11-30-2006, 03:43 PM
Salam,

If the 4 revelations are from Allah, then why are there so many differences in the 3 scriptures in relation to end of days?

Islam says coming of Christ! Jews says the coming back of Prophet David{pbuh} and Elijah{pbuh} and building temple in Jeruselum?Christians has there own beliefs?

Old testament has phrases like, I will bring back the Children of Israel back to one land and rule the world? Why would any Prophet want that?

Islam never mentions why the jews tell that? Jerusulum seems to be common but the end of Jeruselum is very different in all these scriptures.?.

There is so much similarity in these 3 religions but marked differences as well.

These contradict eachother.

Wassalam.
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Skillganon
11-30-2006, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Mateen
Salam,

If the 4 revelations are from Allah, then why are there so many differences in the 3 scriptures in relation to end of days?
I suggest one read the Quran again or get a good translation. The answer's in their.
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IzakHalevas
11-30-2006, 11:08 PM
I will bring back the Children of Israel back to one land and rule the world?
Can you provide the verse, never remember reading about the children of israel "ruling the world" as a prophecy. Kindly tell us where that can be found.
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snakelegs
12-01-2006, 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by Mateen
Salam,

Jews says the coming back of Prophet David{pbuh} and Elijah{pbuh} and building temple in Jeruselum?

Wassalam.
is that true? never heard that before.
i think islam's answer to your question would be that the others have changed/corrupted the original religion.
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Umar001
12-01-2006, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Mateen
Salam,

If the 4 revelations are from Allah, then why are there so many differences in the 3 scriptures in relation to end of days?
Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah,

Akhi, read what the Qu'ran says about the revelations.

Originally Posted by snakelegs
is that true? never heard that before.
i think islam's answer to your question would be that the others have changed/corrupted the original religion.
In the bible, the new testament, it does say that the Jews were waiting for Elijah, since Elijah ascended to heaven straight. Also a person like david I dont think david again, but someone from his house.

I stress the above is based on my Christian understanding of the Old Testament, so Jews may view it differently.
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ashara
12-01-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by Mateen

Islam says coming of Christ!
Can I know where it says that Christ is coming?
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snakelegs
12-01-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah,

Akhi, read what the Qu'ran says about the revelations.



In the bible, the new testament, it does say that the Jews were waiting for Elijah, since Elijah ascended to heaven straight. Also a person like david I dont think david again, but someone from his house.

I stress the above is based on my Christian understanding of the Old Testament, so Jews may view it differently.
thanks - i've never read the new testament. i think jews probably have a different view.
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Mateen
12-01-2006, 07:34 AM
Salam,

The Third Temple will be a physical Temple, and then after it is built ETERNAL states He will dwell there:
Ezekiel 43:7 "And He said to me, `Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the Children of Israel forever. No more shall the House of Israel defile My righteous Name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.'"

Zechariah 6:12-13 "Then speak to him [Joshua], saying, 'Thus says ETERNAL of hosts, saying: Behold, the man [King David] whose name is the BRANCH! From his place [in the grave], he shall branch out, and he shall build the Temple of ETERNAL. Yes, he shall build the Temple of ETERNAL. He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne. So he [Elijah] shall be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both [King David and Elijah]."'

Ashara,

Yes we muslims believe in second coming of Jesus{pbuh}
Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4.657, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non-Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)



Wassalam.
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snakelegs
12-01-2006, 08:11 AM
thanks!
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ashara
12-04-2006, 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by Mateen
Salam,

Yes we muslims believe in second coming of Jesus{pbuh}
Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4.657, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non-Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)
Salam Brother,
just wondering, (pls don't think i'm anti-hadith or anthing), doesn't the above seem to be the opposite of the doomsday picture we get of the final days of earth? and for that matter i am sure u agree that hadith is not infalliable and the above might or might not be exactly what the Prophet said, if he said it at all. as for the quranic verse, "before his death" could possibly mean that he had died a natural death and had a small band of believers in secret (he can't preach openly as it is only logical that he would go 'underground' after God has saved him from a terrible fate ), or if we look at the next verse (or before it) -it adresses the jews of that time so it could be that the arrival of Jesus made a requirement to believe in him to be considered a believer, just like after Prophet Muhammad being a believer in the complete form would be to believe in the prophet Muhammad s.a.w and to follow his teachings.

again, i am not anti-hadith or anything. its just that no one has explained to me about this before and the explanation you gave is based on one hadith and a verse that to me does not really indicate that a return of the Isa a.s. is a fact that must be accepted. after all, the prophet Muhammad is the seal of prophets and ....
".....This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion...." Quran 5:3 Yusuf Ali.

so why do we wait for Isa a.s? are we not given all we need to be Muslims and to take good care of our faith and our fellow human beings?

apologies that my question is not really what this thread is about but i would really appreciate feedback and thank you for your patience towards me.
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Mateen
12-04-2006, 07:38 AM
Salam,

Its best to read Tafsir by experts to understand the Quran best. But remember the best and absolutely true meaning is known to Allah alone.

I think the dying refers here to the death of Jesus{pbuh} after his second coming.
And we can guess he will clear the misconceptions Christians and Jews have about him{as son of God}, and even after this someone says what they say now, Jesus{pbuh} will be a witness against them.

Yes Muhammad{saas} is our final prophet.
Jesus {pbuh} will not come as a prophet, but he willl come in Ummah of Muhammad{saas}.

Wassalam.
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ashara
12-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Salam brother,

Thanks.
and...I agree that tafsir is very important, but i'm sure u will also agree that to a certain degree we should also use our own reasoning rather than relying on tafsir alone so that we can apply and appreciate the Quran more.

wassalam.
Reply

Umar001
12-05-2006, 02:41 AM
Assalamu Aleykum Ashara,
Hope all is well Brother :) And welcome to the forum ;)


Originally Posted by ashara
Salam Brother,
just wondering, (pls don't think i'm anti-hadith or anthing), doesn't the above seem to be the opposite of the doomsday picture we get of the final days of earth? and for that matter i am sure u agree that hadith is not infalliable and the above might or might not be exactly what the Prophet said, if he said it at all.

Brother, if you would like to adress any views dealing with authenticity of hadeeth then it would be best to start a thread, although one has already been made in the Basics of Islam section, as that would help then establish the rest of the Islamic view on Jesus, peace be upon him, coming back.

Originally Posted by ashara
as for the quranic verse, "before his death" could possibly mean that he had died a natural death and had a small band of believers in secret (he can't preach openly as it is only logical that he would go 'underground' after God has saved him from a terrible fate ), or if we look at the next verse (or before it) -it adresses the jews of that time so it could be that the arrival of Jesus made a requirement to believe in him to be considered a believer, just like after Prophet Muhammad being a believer in the complete form would be to believe in the prophet Muhammad s.a.w and to follow his teachings.

again, i am not anti-hadith or anything. its just that no one has explained to me about this before and the explanation you gave is based on one hadith and a verse that to me does not really indicate that a return of the Isa a.s. is a fact that must be accepted. after all, the prophet Muhammad is the seal of prophets and ....
".....This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion...." Quran 5:3 Yusuf Ali.

so why do we wait for Isa a.s? are we not given all we need to be Muslims and to take good care of our faith and our fellow human beings?

apologies that my question is not really what this thread is about but i would really appreciate feedback and thank you for your patience towards me.
Yes the religion was perfected on that day, Isa coming back will not make a perfection to the deen, he is just a sign he will not come to teach us anything new and he will not come as a Prophet with Revelation, he will come as a sign to mankind and so that he can do the things said by Muhammad, peace be upon him.

We do not need Isa to come to complete our religion, he is only coming to do what has been stated, the hadeeth are numerous on this matter. There is also a thread on the Mahdi and Eesa, use the search too and inshaAllah you will find it. I hope you do find it beneficial.


Originally Posted by ashara
Salam brother,

Thanks.
and...I agree that tafsir is very important, but i'm sure u will also agree that to a certain degree we should also use our own reasoning rather than relying on tafsir alone so that we can apply and appreciate the Quran more.

wassalam.
Well as Muslims we should not rely on our own understanding, the religion was made perfect by Allah and it has been kept perfect knowledge is there for us to take, and Muhammad peace be upon him was sent to explain the Qu'ran, so not much need for us to try to explain it ourself. :)
Noone is accusing you of being a hadeeth rejector, :) so don't worry akhi, Love yo for the sake of Allah,

Eesa.
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Mateen
12-05-2006, 07:22 AM
Salam,

I agree. We ofcourse can use our understanding on the Quran but we should remember we can only understand matters depending on our level of thinking.

Thats why the Hadith is a great companion to the Quran.

Wassalam.
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ashara
12-06-2006, 03:53 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Noone is accusing you of being a hadeeth rejector, :) so don't worry akhi, Love yo for the sake of Allah,
Eesa.
Thanks for the support :)

Salam
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