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imaad_udeen
11-30-2006, 07:07 PM
Is it usually ok to allow Christians to pray in a mosque? Aren't we to assume they would be praying to Jesus?

Confusing.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/...pe_turkey]Link

Pope prays with cleric at Turkey mosque

By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer 7 minutes ago

Pope Benedict XVI prayed alongside an Islamic cleric in Turkey's most famous mosque Thursday in a dramatic gesture of outreach to Muslims after outrage from the pontiff's remarks linking violence and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad.

The pope bowed his head and closed his eyes for nearly a minute inside the Blue Mosque after Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul, said: "Now I'm going to pray."

As the pope left the famous 17th century mosque, the pope turned to Cagrici and thanked him "for this moment of prayer," the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

"This visit will help us find together the way of peace for the good of all humanity," the pope said during only the second papal visit to a Muslim place of worship. Benedict's predecessor, John Paul II, visited a mosque in Syria in 2001.

The mosque visit was added to Benedict's schedule as a "sign of respect" during his first papal trip to a Muslim nation, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said last week.

The pope removed his shoes before entering the carpeted expanse of the mosque, which is officially known as the Sultan Ahmet Mosque after the Ottoman sultan Ahmet I, who ordered its construction. But it's widely called the Blue Mosque after its elaborate blue tiles.

Benedict received a gift of a glazed tile decorated with a dove and a painting showing a view of the Sea of Marmara off Istanbul. The pope gave the imam a mosaic showing four doves.

"Let us pray for brotherhood and for all humanity," the pope said in Italian.

Lombardi said the pope "paused in meditation" inside the mosque and "certainly his thoughts turned to God."

The pope has offered wide-ranging messages of reconciliation to Muslims since arriving in Turkey on Tuesday, including appeals for greater understanding and support for Turkey's steps to become the first Muslim nation in the European Union.

But Benedict also has set down his own demands.

After a deeply symbolic display of unity with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's Christian Orthodox, the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms for religious minorities and lamented the divisions among Christians — including the nearly 1,000-year rift between Catholics and Orthodox.

"The divisions which exist among Christians are a scandal to the world," Benedict said after joining Bartholomew to mark the feast day of St. Andrew, who preached across Asia Minor and who tradition says ordained the first bishop of Constantinople, now called Istanbul.

The symbolism of the Orthodox Liturgy was highly significant to Roman Catholics. Andrew was the brother of St. Peter, who was martyred in Rome and is considered the first pope.

Benedict has made outreach to the world's more than 250 million Orthodox a centerpiece of his young papacy and has set the difficult goal of full unity between the two ancient branches of Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes, including the extent of papal authority.

It's also a key part of the pope's drive to reinforce Christian bonds in Europe and around the world.

He said all Christians should "renew Europe's awareness of its Christian roots, traditions and values, giving them new vitality."

In a joint statement, the pope and patriarch stressed the need to "preserve Christian roots" in European culture while remaining "open to other religions and their cultural contributions."

The comments could send conflicting signals to Turkey after the Vatican suggested there was room in the European Union for its first Muslim member. They could also serve as a rallying point for groups opposed to bringing a predominantly Muslim country into the bloc.

The pope also recalled how the faith was shaped by the encounters of early Christians with the scientific and intellectual traditions of ancient Greece. It was the same theological backdrop — faith and reason — that was the basis for his explosive remarks in September on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.

Benedict avoided any direct mention of Islam after praying with Bartholomew at the gilded St. George Church in Istanbul — which as Constantinople was the capital of Christian Byzantium before falling to Muslim forces in 1453.

But the pope urged "all world leaders to respect religious freedom as a fundamental human right."

Benedict, making his first papal visit to a predominantly Muslim nation, had previously said Muslim demands for greater respect in the West must be matched by increased tolerance and freedoms for Christians in Islamic nations.

The joint statement listed "religious freedom" as one of the hallmarks of the EU — a clear reference to Turkey and its efforts to join the bloc.

The pontiff also visited the 1,500-year-old Haghia Sophia, a domed complex that once was a spiritual center of Christianity and was converted to a mosque in the 15th century. The site became a museum following the sweeping secular reforms that formed modern Turkey in the 1920s.

Wearing white robes, Benedict listened as a museum official explained the site's remarkable mix of Quranic calligraphy and the Christian symbols that remained, including a frescoes and mosaics of figures revered by Islam such as Jesus and the Virgin Mary.

Security was extremely tight, including snipers on the minarets added to Haghia Sophia following the Muslim conquest.

About 150 nationalists protested the pope's visit to the site, gathering at a square less than a mile away and urging the government to open the museum to Muslim worship. Nationalists view the planned visit as a sign of Christian claims to the site and a challenge to Turkish sovereignty.

"Haghia Sophia is Turkish and will remain Turkish," one protest sign read. Riot police surrounded the demonstrators to prevent them from advancing toward the site.

The pope's deepening ties with Bartholomew — called the "first among equals" among Orthodox leaders — also is watched with suspicion in Turkey as a possible challenge to state-imposed limits on Christian minorities and others.

Turkey does not acknowledge Bartholomew's global status and considers him as the leader of 2,000-member Greek Orthodox community remaining in Turkey. Greek Orthodox leaders have hoped the papal visit would increase pressure on Turkey to reform rules governing religious minorities, including lifting educational laws that forced the closure of Istanbul's only Greek Orthodox seminary more than 20 years ago.

Of Turkey's 70 million people, some 65,000 are Armenian Orthodox Christians, 20,000 are Roman Catholic and 3,500 are Protestant, mostly converts from Islam. Another 23,000 are Jewish.

___

Associated Press writer Victor L. Simpson contributed to this report.
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Keltoi
11-30-2006, 08:24 PM
In 638, the magistrate of the Holy City was the Greek Patriarch Sophronius and he had the sad task of of escorting the Caliph Omar, who rode triumphantly into into Jerusalem on a white camel. Omar asked to be taken immediately to the Temple Mount and there he knelt in prayer on the spot where his friend Mohammad had alighted after his Night Journey to heaven. [...]Next Omar asked to see the Christian shrines and, while he was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the time for Muslim prayer came around. Courteously the Patriarch invited him to pray where he was, but Omar as courteously refused. If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by building a mosque there, and that would mean they would demolish the Holy Sepulchre. This must not happen because the Christian shrines must be preserved. Instead, Omar went to pray at a little distance from the church and, sure enough, directly opposite the Holy Sepulchre there is still a small mosque dedicated to the Caliph Omar

This was a paragraph from a book I read some time ago by Karen Armstrong. I posted it because it shows that even in 638 the Catholic Patriarch offered to allow the Holy Sepulchre to be Caliph Omar's place of prayer. It isn't that "controversial".
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Ismahaan
11-30-2006, 08:39 PM
Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?

Surat-ul Jinn 72: 18 "And the mosques are for Allah (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah."
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Keltoi
11-30-2006, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ismahaan
Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?

Surat-ul Jinn 72: 18 "And the mosques are for Allah (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah."
Perhaps for the same reason a Christian Patriarch allowed a Muslim to pray at the Holy Sepulchre? Churches and Mosques are built to worship God.
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arabiyyah
11-30-2006, 09:00 PM
Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?
How do you know that the pope was not praying to Allah? Do they not believe in Allah who Ibraheem worshiped?
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Ar-RaYYan
11-30-2006, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
How do you know that the pope was not praying to Allah? Do they not believe in Allah who Ibraheem worshiped?
He might have prayed to Allah but still he is a kafir considering not believing in prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) and Islam as the last religion to enter to the earth. Anyway was is the point the pope praying to Allah as he already have rejected Allah's words.
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Muezzin
11-30-2006, 09:23 PM
I urge members to calm down before posting in this thread, or I may well delete their posts.
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Keltoi
11-30-2006, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I urge members to calm down before posting in this thread, or I may well delete their posts.
I hope that wasn't directed towards me. My point was that both Mosques and Churches are built as places to worship God, and as far back as 638 this practice wasn't considered controversial, at least from the Christian side, so I don't see why it should be controversial in 2006.
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Muezzin
11-30-2006, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I hope that wasn't directed towards me. My point was that both Mosques and Churches are built as places to worship God, and as far back as 638 this practice wasn't considered controversial, at least from the Christian side, so I don't see why it should be controversial in 2006.
It wasn't directed at you. I can just foresee this thread attracting a lot of controversy (and thus, head-aches) :p
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FBI
11-30-2006, 09:34 PM
:sl:

lol can u say damage control.
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Umar001
11-30-2006, 09:37 PM
Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid?

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glo
11-30-2006, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
Is it usually ok to allow Christians to pray in a mosque? Aren't we to assume they would be praying to Jesus?

Confusing.
They would be praying to the Almighty - the one and only God, creator and giver of all life. :)

Peace
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schoolmaster54
11-30-2006, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid?

Hadith of Mubahela

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To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup.
Please discuss this issue on the talk page, or replace this tag with a more specific message. Editing help is available.
This article has been tagged since August 2006.
Mubahela means debating with each other. It is also the name of an event where Mohammad summoned the Ahl al-Bayt against the Christians of Najran.
The event is recorded in manny hadith collections and is referred to in the Qur'an.
It is seen as one of the merits of Ahl al-Bayt and is widely used in Shia-Sunni argumantations, and also used by the Shia to prove that Ali has the same authority over Muslims as Mohammad.


Contents

[hide]
//
[edit] Event

According to Islamic tradition, the Christians of Najran were unhappy because of the rapid spread of Islam in the lands of Arabia. They wished to discuss this matter with Mohammad and arrived in Madina. Few learned scholars were selected by the Christians who had a continuous dialogue with Mohammad for three days. It started on Saturday, when Sunday arrived, the christians asked to leave the city to pray. The Prophet told them to stay and pray inside the Mosque of the Prophet which they did.
They were unable to arrive on any mutual understanding. When they did not agree on this point revelation from Allah came to the Prophet Mohammad. (Sura Ale Imran V 61) The verse reads- "If you are not prepared to accept the truth after the fact that you have failed in your arguments, Say, Come now, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, our Selves and Your Selves, then let us humbly pray and so lay God’s curse upon the ones who lie.”
The next morning the Mohammad emerged from his house with his closest family. He held the hand of Hasan walking beside him, held Hussain in his arms, followed by his daughter Fatimah. She was followed by Ali. He came and stood with this family in front of the Christian Bishops who also came forward to perform the Mubahela. The chief of the Christians was Bishop Abul Harris. When he saw this small family of the Prophet he turned towards his fellow christians and told them, ”do not indulge in Mubahela with this family, for I am observing such pious faces that if they would order the mountain to come to them the mountain shall move towards them. It is therefore prudent to make treaty with them rather than confrontation of this spiritual imminence." They asked Mohammad for peace and it was accepted. Mohammad extended the hand of friendship towards them, a treaty was signed and both parties left on friendly terms.
Date: 9 AH [1]

[edit] Qur'an

Pickthall Sura 3:61:
And whoso disputeth with thee concerning him, after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, say (unto him): Come! We will summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we will pray humbly (to our Lord) and (solemnly) invoke the curse of Allah upon those who lie.
[edit] Shia view

Interestingly, this verse is addressing Mohammad, he is the one making the Mubahela, but it is written in the perspective of Ali. Fatimah is described as "our women", Hasan and Husain are "our sons" and Ali is "ourselves". This is taken by Shias to prove that they hold the same authority in the eyes of God.
A lot of Shia believe that "ourselves" refers to his grandson Hussain because of the famous saying by the Prophet "Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain" (حسين مني وانا من حسين)

[edit] See also




[edit] References

Prose contains specific citations in source text which may be viewed in edit mode.
  1. ^ http://www.--------------/kaaba14/2.htm


[edit] External links

This Islam-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Mubahela"
Categories: Cleanup from August 2006 | Hadith | Islam stubs
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north_malaysian
12-01-2006, 02:29 AM
Pope John Paul II prayed in Umayyad mosque.... so what's the big fuss about it?
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north_malaysian
12-01-2006, 02:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by building a mosque there, and that would mean they would demolish the Holy Sepulchre.
How many churches being converted to mosques, and how many mosques converted into churches....... Caliph Omar had set a good example that some Muslim and Christian leaders dont follow.:cry:
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imaad_udeen
12-01-2006, 02:36 AM
He could be praying to Jesus, since Catholics believe inthe Trinity, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit being three parts of the same god.

One shouldn't be praying to anyone but Allah in His moqsue.
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north_malaysian
12-01-2006, 02:43 AM
No Islamic religious authorities object to the popes praying in Umayyad mosque and Blue Mosque. Thus, it's ok then.

Jews are also strict followers of monotheistic belief, and they never questioned of the popes praying in their synagogues in Germany and Italy.

Pope Benedict believe that there is a need for an alliance of Judeo-Christo-Islam to defend the world from unbelievers. And I've heard that he retracted his decision not to allow Turkey into EU.
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Umar001
12-01-2006, 02:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
He could be praying to Jesus, since Catholics believe inthe Trinity, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit being three parts of the same god.

One shouldn't be praying to anyone but Allah in His moqsue.
Akhi, did you read the Question I asked?
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north_malaysian
12-01-2006, 02:58 AM
BENEDICT'S POST-SECULAR VISION IN HIS TURKEY VISIT

By PHILLIP BLOND and ADRIAN PABST

Two months ago, Pope Benedict XVI sparked a furore in the Islamic world when, during a lecture at Regensburg, he quoted a Byzantine emperor who described some of Prophet Muhammad's teachings as "evil and inhuman".

After worldwide condemnation and violent protests, Benedict expressed regret for the pain his comments had caused but stopped short of a full apology.

During his visit to Turkey this week, Benedict is expected to avoid controversy and seek a diplomatic rapprochement with Islam. Indeed, his talk of "dialogue", brotherhood and understanding between religions," as well as the reversal of his objections to Turkey's EU membership has widely been interpreted as a gesture of goodwill towards the Muslim faithful.

As such, his declarations appear to be a concession to his liberal and religious critics alike.

But the papal visit is not primarily an attempt to pacify relations between Christianity and Islam. Instead, Benedict is there to engage with Islam and Eastern Orthodoxy in the hope of persuading both to join his project to overcoming secularism.

The Pope, far from being secterian, wants to inaugurate a new religious renaissance in Europe that opposes bith secular and religious fundementalism. This apostolic journey is of a piece with the logic of the Regensburg address.

Benedict opposes secularism because it's absolute and arbitrary. In the name of being neutral with regard to values, secular ideology eliminates all rival worldviews from the public sphere... - IHT

Source: The Star, 01.12.2006, page W40.
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Keltoi
12-01-2006, 03:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
He could be praying to Jesus, since Catholics believe inthe Trinity, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit being three parts of the same god.

One shouldn't be praying to anyone but Allah in His moqsue.
If the Pope is praying to Jesus Christ he is praying to God. I know that is difficult for some Muslims to understand(seemingly), but one could think of it as a triangle, three sides of the same figure. In any event, from what I understand the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) allowed Christians to pray at his Masjid after a meeting he had with a group of Christian leaders. So if the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) didn't find a problem with allowing Christians to pray at a Mosque why should you second guess that decision now?
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Umar001
12-01-2006, 03:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If the Pope is praying to Jesus Christ he is praying to God. I know that is difficult for some Muslims to understand(seemingly), but one could think of it as a triangle, three sides of the same figure. In any event, from what I understand the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) allowed Christians to pray at his Masjid after a meeting he had with a group of Christian leaders. So if the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) didn't find a problem with allowing Christians to pray at a Mosque why should you second guess that decision now?
Finally someone brought this up, jee it really can be difficult getting people to think.
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north_malaysian
12-01-2006, 03:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
from what I understand the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) allowed Christians to pray at his Masjid after a meeting he had with a group of Christian leaders. So if the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) didn't find a problem with allowing Christians to pray at a Mosque why should you second guess that decision now?
Prophet Muhammad did allow Christians to pray in mosque? Care to further explain? Cos... I dont know about it.:embarrass
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Ismahaan
12-01-2006, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
How do you know that the pope was not praying to Allah? Do they not believe in Allah who Ibraheem worshiped?
The believe in the trinity, a God that's 3 in 1. Is that Allah? Catholics pray to Jesus, they even pray to Mary. So who knows who is was praying to, maybe Jesus, maybe Mary, maybe the holy ghost- but definitely not Allah! You to declare that there is no God but Allah before you can even pray- shahada, then prayer.
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Ismahaan
12-01-2006, 03:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If the Pope is praying to Jesus Christ he is praying to God. I know that is difficult for some Muslims to understand(seemingly), but one could think of it as a triangle, three sides of the same figure. In any event, from what I understand the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) allowed Christians to pray at his Masjid after a meeting he had with a group of Christian leaders. So if the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) didn't find a problem with allowing Christians to pray at a Mosque why should you second guess that decision now?

Err where's your evidence? Can you give me a hadith reference if you don't mind? I would really appreciate it.
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Keltoi
12-01-2006, 04:21 PM
In the year 10 A.H. (631 CE), Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received a delegation of sixty Christians from Najran in Medinah. The territory of Najran was located south of Bani Khath’am near Yemen, about 450 miles south of Medinah. They were received in the Prophet’s mosque, and the Prophet allowed them to pray in the mosque, which they did facing East. This group of Christians followed Byzantine rite.

They discussed with the Prophet the points of doctrine including the nature of God, and he replied them by reciting Surah Ikhlas (112) of the Qur’an. It begins with the word ‘Qul’ meaning ‘Say’. The translation of the meaning of the Surah is: 'Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him'. Further discussion on the nature of Prophet Jesus (pbuh) led to some disagreements, on which he recited them the three Ayats of the Qur’an from Surah Ale-‘Imran (3:59-61). After three days, the Christian delegation decided to conclude its mission

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty631.htm

http://--------------/kaaba14/2.htm#Th...%20of%20Najran.
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Muhammad
12-01-2006, 04:33 PM
Question:

What is the ruling on non-Muslims entering the mosque?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is forbidden for Muslims to allow any kaafir to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam [in Makkah] and the sacred areas [al-Haram] around it, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikûn (polytheists) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Harâm (at Makkah) after this year” [al-Tawbah 9:28].

With regard to other mosques, some fuqaha’ said that it is permissible because there is nothing to indicate that it is not allowed; others said that it is not permissible, by analogy with al-Masjid al-Haraam.

The correct view is that it is permissible if it serves the interests of sharee’ah or meet a valid need, such as a person hearing something that may invite him to enter Islam, or because he needs to drink water in the mosque, or the like. This is because the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tied up (his prisoner) Thamaamah ibn Athaal al-Hanafi in the mosque before he became Muslim, and the delegations of Thaqeef and the Christians of Najraan stayed in the mosque before they became Muslim. There were many benefits offered by doing this: they could hear the speeches and sermons of the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), see people praying and reciting Qur’aan, and other benefits that are gained by those who visit the mosque. (From Fatawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 6/276).

If some kuffaar ask to enter the mosque so that they can see how Muslims pray, so long as they have nothing with them that could make the mosque dirty, and there are no women among them who are dressed in a provocative fashion, or any other reason not to let them in, then there is nothing wrong with allowing them to enter and sit behind the Muslims so they can see how they pray. If we fear that there is someone who may rebuke them (for not praying etc.) without realizing that they are not Muslim, we should point this out to them.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...ffaar%20masjid

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imaad_udeen
12-01-2006, 05:31 PM
I dont like the idea of someone who insulted the Prophet (pbuh) being allowed to enter a Mosque.

But Allah knows all.
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Keltoi
12-01-2006, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
I dont like the idea of someone who insulted the Prophet (pbuh) being allowed to enter a Mosque.

But Allah knows all.
Actually, a Byzantine Emperor insulted the Prophet, Pope Benedict just quoted him for reasons of his own. An extemely dumb thing to do, but Benedict is a scholar and not as charismatic as John Paul. What is most unfortunate about his choice of words is that it completely overshadowed the point of his speech, which was the role of reason in religion, and that violence has no place within it.
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limitless
12-01-2006, 05:59 PM
:sl:

That pope should not be allowed to pray in the musjied. Wasn't it Christians who genocided the muslims. If the pope prayed in Israel where jews worship; I would see all jews killing and spreading hatred about Christianity.

I hated the fact muslims allowed a mushirk to pray in the musjid; this is the reasons why Muslims are getting killed, being insulted, and treated like trash around the world. I don't blame Bush or any of the politicians for claiming muslims to be terrorist because it is their (muslims) fault for this. If they didn't fight and "hated" each other this wouldn't happen.

Anyway, I didn't mean to insult or say anything to hurt someone. It is my opinion.

:w:
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Keltoi
12-01-2006, 06:17 PM
If one is truly concerned with creating improved relations and fostering friendship between faiths it would seem prudent and logical to be seen honoring the other faith's places of worship. Would it be more insulting for the Pope to state he would not pray in a mosque because it would be sinful to do so, or more insulting that he views a mosque as a place Christians should feel comfortable in worshipping their own faith? Not that Christians are suddenly going to start trying to worship at mosques, but that Christians may grow to feel more comfortable with the Islamic faith. The mentality I've read about this issue by many on this thread is a repitition of what has divided us over the past 1,000 years.
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imaad_udeen
12-01-2006, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If one is truly concerned with creating improved relations and fostering friendship between faiths it would seem prudent and logical to be seen honoring the other faith's places of worship. Would it be more insulting for the Pope to state he would not pray in a mosque because it would be sinful to do so, or more insulting that he views a mosque as a place Christians should feel comfortable in worshipping their own faith? Not that Christians are suddenly going to start trying to worship at mosques, but that Christians may grow to feel more comfortable with the Islamic faith. The mentality I've read about this issue by many on this thread is a repitition of what has divided us over the past 1,000 years.
The Pope prayed to someone other than Allah in a mosque, I don't think that is right.
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abdil han
12-01-2006, 08:18 PM
salam aleykum all,
brothers if the problem is getting into a mosque as a nonmuslim;pope is not the first,,blue mosque is one of the most famous mosques in the world and every tourist(including atheists,polyteists,jews,whatever) who visits istanbul,goes into this mosque,,,and this mosque has been visited by 6 million tourists last year,,..


and once a hindu prayed there(actually he prayyed in islamic way,but he is not a muslim,i am a guide and im guiding in istanbul,i was his guide)

wassalamu aleykum
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AvarAllahNoor
12-01-2006, 08:30 PM
Mosques, Gurdwaras, Churches, Mandirs, Synagogues are places of worship of God, so we souldn't be throwing our toys out of the pram.
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AvarAllahNoor
12-01-2006, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If the Pope is praying to Jesus Christ he is praying to God. I know that is difficult for some Muslims to understand(seemingly), but one could think of it as a triangle, three sides of the same figure. In any event, from what I understand the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) allowed Christians to pray at his Masjid after a meeting he had with a group of Christian leaders. So if the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) didn't find a problem with allowing Christians to pray at a Mosque why should you second guess that decision now?
Although i agree we should all be allowed to pray where we want.

Also bear in mind. Christians then did no beleive in this trinity theory as strongly that's come to the surface recently as you do now. Jesus was never percieved to be God, but the SON of God, who wanted to direct all people to that one God. Somewhere Christians lost there way and decided Jesus was God. Not what he came on this earth to do!
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Woodrow
12-01-2006, 09:02 PM
If a man says he is going to pray to Allah(swt) is it not more right for us to accept him on his word and let it be his own sin if he does different? Isn't it much better for us to allow someone to pray then risk denying a person who's intent is to pray to Allah(swt).

The Catholic Church has long taught it's members that Allah(swt) is the same God(swt) of the prophets that is revealed to them. I do believe the Catholic church is in error over the nature of Isa, but they will accept the oneness of Allah(swt)

I am certain that the Popes prayer was said aloud and I am also certain that if the words spoke of anyone besides Allah(swt) there would have been a loud uproar at the Mosque.

We can not know a person's thoughts or their intentions all we can do is see that the outward actions are not Haram.
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Keltoi
12-01-2006, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Although i agree we should all be allowed to pray where we want.

Also bear in mind. Christians then did no beleive in this trinity theory as strongly that's come to the surface recently as you do now. Jesus was never percieved to be God, but the SON of God, who wanted to direct all people to that one God. Somewhere Christians lost there way and decided Jesus was God. Not what he came on this earth to do!
Actually the Christians the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) had this meeting with believed in the concept of the Trinity. This was actually a topic of conversation according to the sources I've encountered on the subject. I don't want to get bogged down in debating this subject though as it has been discussed numerous times with much detail in the comparative religion section.
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KAding
12-02-2006, 12:53 AM
It was supposed to be a sign of respect and an attempting at mending relations. Guess that didn't quite work out like planned!

Btw, the blue mosque is as much a tourist attraction as a Mosque. I even visited it a year or so ago. If they let in a completely unbelieving kafir like me, surely they couldn't bar the pope ;).
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AvarAllahNoor
12-02-2006, 01:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Actually the Christians the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) had this meeting with believed in the concept of the Trinity. This was actually a topic of conversation according to the sources I've encountered on the subject. I don't want to get bogged down in debating this subject though as it has been discussed numerous times with much detail in the comparative religion section.
I'll read up on it then. It's odd how it's only recently or some groups who see Jesus as God.

I'll remain on topic though!
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Abdul-Raouf
12-02-2006, 01:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid?

Yes offcourse......... but he ordered them that they should clean their body and enter the mosque thats it.......
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