View Full Version : Why I joined this forum! (help me)

12-01-2006, 11:13 PM
So let me go straight to the problem.
For my whole life I have had a very strong belief in Islam when I was younger I was very interested in mystics and Sufism in general.

Previously I had quite a bit of conceptual knowledge of Islam and but mostly I stayed close to the Quran . I was very good at debating “Islam vs Christianity” and “relating Islam to science”

In General I never even argued the concept of god with anyone or thought of it myself because I always related the awe I got from nature to Allah.

But in the past year I have really pushed it in terms of research of theology, atheism, theism, Islam etc. Anything that relates to the subject from the basic belief in god and the reasoning behind it to religions and their validity.

I wil always be awed by life and nature in general but I refuse to come to a conclusion about anything solely based on emotion. In fact I consider myself a “logical emotional” person.
I only accept or deny things based on reason and logic but once I accept or reject something I am completely emotional on how I treat my acceptance or rejection.

People always use to tell me “don’t read that stuff it’s not good for you” or “how can you even consider that a possibility?”, “just read the quran ignore all this other stuff” But I really believe that ignoring what people have to say for example atheists or any other doctrine and just concentrating on Islam internally isn’t the right way to reason and look for truth. Nor is not being completely open and not being ready to change your position if necessary.

But talking about reasoning I have come to the conclusion that reasoning it self is relative. I can alter my reasoning to believe what I want to believe.
Because atheism based on a certain way of reasoning is true but is false based on another.
This, not only applies to the core “atheism vs theism” but also to the derivative religions originating from this core belief.( I consider different variations of atheism “religion like” as well)

Logic is universal but the realm of reasoning that logic is used in can change.

Just as an example: Now looking at the theory of evolution and one of its core rules.

Evolutions framework works in general to explain the origin of life and science to explain the origin of the universe. This framework works so well in general that scientist fill in the missing pieces by assuming it will be explained or understood as time passes.

Natural selection or genetic mutation is based on positive changes in life forms so it implies that no mutation can take place in a life form unless it insures survival or some kind for progression improving survivability. So basically no useless mutations are made each minute step has to increase survivability and add value to the organism.

Let’s compare this to the example of the feather.
The feather perfectly shaped for flight, required hundreds of mutations before the final product came into existence and evolved into a complete feather based on the theory of evolution.
But if every step or mutation only happens as a direct result of a reaction of survival and no other reasons based on the theory “natural selection”, then what was the use of all the mutations (steps) needed to get to the feather. Why would an organism evolve into having a partial feather which has no use for its survival?
If hundreds of mutations are required to get the final product of a feather then does that mean this defies the theory of evolution?
Because all the mutations that happened between did not have any purpose of survival and a mutation cannot “foresee” a final product and happen just to be part of a chain of mutations happening with no immediate survival benefit! Until a final product is generated by the end of that chain or mutations happening over a long course of time.

The evolutionist will probably argue that even though this may seem like each mutation was intended for a final product sometimes mutations start off for one reason and each addition of the chain can change its course for various evolutionary advantages.
Basically saying that each individual mutation had its own evolutionary advantage and that the beginning, mid point and perhaps even until the final stages of the evolution of the feather had nothing to do with flight but some other unrelated reasons.
This is what they call the “illusion of design”

The creationist will argue that this just an argument to plug a hole or blind spot in the theory of evolution and this sort of thing is mathematically improbable and the fact that this can happen indicates design.

I personally believe neither one can be proven right nor wrong.
This is just one example of this endless debate everyone can be proven right or wrong with hundreds of endless arguments. And each side believes according to me the opposite sides arguments are weaker than theirs but “I believe” it’s just a matter of perception and the way you choose to reason because each side can be valid based on how you choose to reason. This what I call just having faith and unless someone can offer me another explanation? I will always believe there is a level of faith in every religion or any type of belief system whether it is to believe in god or not believing in him.

But this way of thinking I have developed is very confusing because when I initially got into this I wanted to take a decision based on reason and I always though islam could offer that! Yet I am back on faith. The only logical thing to do in a situation like this is to say “I don’t know” because if you make an assumption towards one belief this will be based on faith or your own level of perceptive reasoning not pure universal logic.

Not only that but to come to Islam it is an accumulation of many layers of faith:
1) You have to first believe in GOD/Allah.
2) You have to then decide what kind of god you believe in.
3) Then you have to believe in Islam.

No one ever says you do believe in London.. Because even if you haven’t seen London but the level of faith needed is very minimal its mostly based on knowledge and facts that give you quite a bit of certainty , because there is almost no one to counter that position and at worst you can take steps to prove its existence and finalize your decision.
I want to do the same will Allah and Islam !!

But for God the initial step it self of believing in him are arguable and improvable with people having opposing viewpoints , let alone all the additional complex layers of faith needed to get to Islam it self.

This is my way of thinking the only conclusion I can come to right now logically is “I don’t know if Allah exists”.

Anything else will require some kind of faith.
People tell me just to pray etc etc but I don’t want to drive myself to believe in something by forcing emotional involvement .
There must be some kind of logical loophole or way of thinking that will lead me to islam without the complexity and faith needed to believe in it.

This is why I am posting here can someone help me out ?

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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-01-2006, 11:25 PM
Wow, took a while to read. Well bro, its good you came for help rather than turning your back on it. It tells me your willing to learn and not be ignorant. Thats a good step. Well in Islam, blind faith is dangerous and encourages every Muslim to gain knowledge so that they may follow Islam whole heartedly. You dont need complex layers of faith to get to Islam. Islam isn't meant to be difficult, but sometimes people make it seem so. There are many knowledgeable people here on this forum, MashAllah, who will be willing to help you out, InshAllah. If you have any specific questions, please ask and also use the search facility so u can find what your looking for.
Btw, welcome to forums bro.
I hope it will be very beneficial for you.
Looking forward to your posts.

12-01-2006, 11:32 PM

Hi :)

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-01-2006, 11:34 PM
or to make ur life easier, go to the link provided by the brother :D

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