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baby_muslimah
12-02-2006, 05:50 PM
:sl:

I just want to ask you one question, actually i want you to think of this question: Where would you be without Muslims? Without Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis etc? Your country would be nothing!! It was because of us, you have all these food to eat, because of us you've got a job. And you want us kicked out this country? Well firstly i was born here so where do I go? And secondly you brought our grandparents and great grandparents here to work and you were just using us so now you want to kick us out? No wonder you're not trusted.

:w:
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FBI
12-02-2006, 06:06 PM
:sl:

The title has me in laughter, as if your gonna find BNP supporters here lol.
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baby_muslimah
12-02-2006, 06:09 PM
You'll be in suprise brother. Trust me, there's alot of people on here who don't shout out loud that they are a BNP supporter but in their hearts they are. I know of some "undercover" BNP supporters.

Why do youthink there will not be any BNP supporters here? Is this forum Anti-BNP.. hmm sure it is!

They hate us so much, I wont b suprised.
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FBI
12-02-2006, 06:11 PM
:sl:

I know of some "undercover" BNP supporters
What members of this forum please tell me who they are so I can send them a virus
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Woodrow
12-02-2006, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

The title has me in laughter, as if your gonna find BNP supporters here lol.
I thought the exact same words.
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afriend
12-02-2006, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

The title has me in laughter, as if your gonna find BNP supporters here lol.
u'll be surprised I'm telling you.

format_quote Originally Posted by baby_muslimah
:sl:

I just want to ask you one question, actually i want you to think of this question: Where would you be without Muslims? Without Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis etc? Your country would be nothing!! It was because of us, you have all these food to eat, because of us you've got a job. And you want us kicked out this country? Well firstly i was born here so where do I go? And secondly you brought our grandparents and great grandparents here to work and you were just using us so now you want to kick us out? No wonder you're not trusted.

:w:
Wonderfully put sister. They either do not care, or are just idiots. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that most of the important posts are occupied by those who are non british.
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Woodrow
12-02-2006, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by baby_muslimah
You'll be in suprise brother. Trust me, there's alot of people on here who don't shout out loud that they are a BNP supporter but in their hearts they are. I know of some "undercover" BNP supporters.

Why do youthink there will not be any BNP supporters here? Is this forum Anti-BNP.. hmm sure it is!

They hate us so much, I wont b suprised.
To be honest a BNP supporter would have little entertainment here and I doubt if any would stick around for any length of time. We do occasional have an obnoxious person stop in and say hello, but they soon either get tired of us or we get tired of them. We have no hidden secrets floating around on the forums that somebody in the BNP can not find just by walking in their own neighborhoods. I would probably welcome a BNP supporter as long as he/she followed the forum rules. It would do her/him good to learn what Islam really is and not rely on imagination.
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baby_muslimah
12-02-2006, 06:46 PM
Do you really want me to name them? Nah, I might get banned.

Thank You brother Iqram, you agree with me! :) Its nice to know someone looks at the world with open eyes.

Brother Woodrow, BNP supporters are the people I look down to. I hate the lot of them, they are pathetic and are idiots. The remarks they made about Muslims, Astagfirulah, Allah guide these people!
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Skillganon
12-02-2006, 06:53 PM
OK, let's be civil here, and not be hard on Sister baby_muslimah.

Of course this is a concern for her, and most who are living in britain. However I do not think their is much BNP supportes here if their is any, if they are here than they can learn about Islam.
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Woodrow
12-02-2006, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by baby_muslimah
Do you really want me to name them? Nah, I might get banned.

Thank You brother Iqram, you agree with me! :) Its nice to know someone looks at the world with open eyes.

Brother Woodrow, BNP supporters are the people I look down to. I hate the lot of them, they are pathetic and are idiots. The remarks they made about Muslims, Astagfirulah, Allah guide these people!
I agree with you. I equate them with the KKK. rather I should say I hate their ideologies and feel that their actions will one day condemn them.

But as far as being people I have no general hatred. I have no ill feeling for a person that has bad thought of me However, I will condemn actions if a person uses any disrespectful means to impose their views upon another or acts hostile towards another.
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lavikor201
12-02-2006, 07:29 PM
What is a "BNP" supporter?
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-02-2006, 07:31 PM
its da british national party.. a political party hu wana get rid of all da non-white in britain..
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arabiyyah
12-02-2006, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
its da british national party.. a political party hu wana get rid of all da non-white in britain..
what? is that allowed/???
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 08:44 PM
im a prominent BNP member :p :D

lets keep britain clean, lets keep it white :p

lol naa lol BNP = wannabeez, all skinheads wit beer bellies :p n look lik piggies :D

and i dont tink der is any ere

but dey r really ironic, like they always beggin it & sayin "lets go for a curry" or "take away kebabs" :p n on the other hand, they wana get rid of asians :p who make the curries & kebabs :p :D

they jus a wannabeeeez :D
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KAding
12-02-2006, 08:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
What is a "BNP" supporter?
The British National Party stands for:
1. Britain first, so nationalistic. British interest come first
2. End of multiculturalism
3. Hate and fear of Islam
4. Leaving the EU
5. Tough on crime
6. Anti-immigration

I think that would be a good summary. Essentially they don't believe Muslims belong in Britain and should completely assimilate or leave.
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Muezzin
12-02-2006, 09:18 PM
They also think black people are intellectually or academically inferior to white people.
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England
12-02-2006, 09:45 PM
I was a BNP supporter but I decided to come here and do a little research myself of what the faith actually is all about. I was a BNP supporter because in my opinion Britain is now soft. Banning Christian symbols, banning national flags in certain areas, not in mine as I have a st george flag on a pole above my door. Another reason is that the tax is sky high, Britain has too many immigrants and I would like to preserve British traditions. In the areas where the majority are black the crime rate is extremely high.

Like I said I am in here to find out whether these 'stereotypes' of muslims are just that.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 09:55 PM
what stereotypes :D list em :p
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Skillganon
12-02-2006, 10:00 PM
Maybe stuff like Muslim don't like football, or Cricket.

Or in Case of bro England "Muslim don't like Manchester United." LOL
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England
12-02-2006, 10:04 PM
Or in Case of bro England "Muslim don't like Manchester United." LOL
:uuh: You mean that's true??? :rant: :zip:
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Skillganon
12-02-2006, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
:uuh: You mean that's true??? :rant: :zip:
Well, it's true in my case. I support Liverpool, but not a fanatic. However I will support Man Utd if it does not intefere on the goal of LFC.
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-02-2006, 10:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
I was a BNP supporter but I decided to come here and do a little research myself of what the faith actually is all about. I was a BNP supporter because in my opinion Britain is now soft. Banning Christian symbols, banning national flags in certain areas, not in mine as I have a st george flag on a pole above my door. Another reason is that the tax is sky high, Britain has too many immigrants and I would like to preserve British traditions. In the areas where the majority are black the crime rate is extremely high.

Like I said I am in here to find out whether these 'stereotypes' of muslims are just that.

was:p so u aint now lol

like chacha sed.. cn we hav da list of stereotypes plz :D
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England
12-02-2006, 10:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
was:p so u aint now lol

like chacha sed.. cn we hav da list of stereotypes plz :D
Go to www.bnp.org.uk and you will find everything there and extra and you will understand what angers the people of this country. 1 thing I just saw this 2nd is that 'white britons put at back of queue' so basically bending over backwards for minorities. It's this that's angering people. It's not all about muslims, although most of it is.

I've kept away from that site the past couple of months as it's just so depressing and pees me off.
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Durrah
12-02-2006, 10:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
Go to www.bnp.org.uk and you will find everything there and extra and you will understand what angers the people of this country. 1 thing I just saw this 2nd is that 'white britons put at back of queue' so basically bending over backwards for minorities. It's this that's angering people. It's not all about muslims, although most of it is.

I've kept away from that site the past couple of months as it's just so depressing and pees me off.
Sorry but white britons are not pushed to no back que. You still make up more then 90% of the country, you run the goverment, hold all the top positions in all the major positions in all insititutions, are the least likely to suffer racial discrimantion in work, school, the media and society in general and least of all groups to be in poverty (when put into perspective).

The flag banning/relgious chrisitian symbols has nothing to do with muslims or ethnic minotiry groups but with white, non relgious libreals who often take it upon themselves to speak on 'behalf' of non white communties on what they think that the ehtnic communties want.

Maybe you should have a word with your own folk first as their the ones with the poltical, economic, social powers to make the real changes.

and secondly, this country OWES a lot to ethnic minrities in this country, especially those from the former empire and commonwealth nations. It was because of them that this country won its wars abroad, built this country though cheap labour (free during slavery times) and also took much of the 3rd worlds natural resources during the empire, which made england in particular very rich.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 10:34 PM
ohh jolly well england :p


what stereotypes or thoughts do you have about muslims? :D
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England
12-02-2006, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
ohh jolly well england :p


what stereotypes or thoughts do you have about muslims? :D
That is why I'm subscribed to this forum. To see what Islam is about in a different perspective.

White Britons put back in the queue - It's likely to referring to houses. Asylum seekers are put 1st. I haven't read the article nor do I want to. It's objective is to anger and believe me it works.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 10:43 PM
erm i dont understand :D

i said what thoughts do you currently have off muslims? honestly :p
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England
12-02-2006, 10:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
Sorry but white britons are not pushed to no back que. You still make up more then 90% of the country, you run the goverment, hold all the top positions in all the major positions in all insititutions, are the least likely to suffer racial discrimantion in work, school, the media and society in general and least of all groups to be in poverty (when put into perspective).

The flag banning/relgious chrisitian symbols has nothing to do with muslims or ethnic minotiry groups but with white, non relgious libreals who often take it upon themselves to speak on 'behalf' of non white communties on what they think that the ehtnic communties want.

Maybe you should have a word with your own folk first as their the ones with the poltical, economic, social powers to make the real changes.

and secondly, this country OWES a lot to ethnic minrities in this country, especially those from the former empire and commonwealth nations. It was because of them that this country won its wars abroad, built this country though cheap labour (free during slavery times) and also took much of the 3rd worlds natural resources during the empire, which made england in particular very rich.
Now there's too many. I'm not against immigration. I'm against illegal immigraton, immigrants that don't want to contribute to our economy. There should be cap on the number of immigrants let in.
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England
12-02-2006, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
erm i dont understand :D

i said what thoughts do you currently have off muslims? honestly :p
I do not know. Confusion would be the word.
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Durrah
12-02-2006, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
That is why I'm subscribed to this forum. To see what Islam is about in a different perspective.

White Britons put back in the queue - It's likely to referring to houses. Asylum seekers are put 1st. I haven't read the article nor do I want to. It's objective is to anger and believe me it works.
They are not put to the back of the que, this is just a lie which is often used to fuel anti immigration proganda.

Most asluym seekers in this country go straight into work, often through dodgy compainies where they are paid much less then the minimum wage. They also lived in cramped conditions, and are overcroweded in homes.

The ones who write thses articles actually have no idea how asulym seekers live in general because they're soo racist, they would never associate with them to actually find out.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 10:47 PM
^ innit though :p

and if britain really wanted to sort out the asylum problem, why dont it stop making wars :p and instead of puttin its nose in the middle east :p why dont it put its nose where they asylum seekers come from:D and help out there!

but i guess they dont put there nose there, cos there isnt any oil there :p brap brap :D:D:D
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England
12-02-2006, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
umm i dont quite understnd you yet sorry.. :?

what thoughtz u hav on muslims?
lol I'll keep it simple. I don't know what my thoughts are as of yet.
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Durrah
12-02-2006, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
Now there's too many. I'm not against immigration. I'm against illegal immigraton, immigrants that don't want to contribute to our economy. There should be cap on the number of immigrants let in.
i agree that theres alot of illiegal immigration but whether you like it, many of them are doing jobs that white britions would never do in a million years. Why? because they're too proud and see it beneath them. They'd rather collect the dole instead than get on their knees and scrub toliets for example, to earn an honest living.
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Trumble
12-02-2006, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
I was a BNP supporter but I decided to come here and do a little research myself of what the faith actually is all about. I was a BNP supporter because in my opinion Britain is now soft. Banning Christian symbols, banning national flags in certain areas, not in mine as I have a st george flag on a pole above my door. Another reason is that the tax is sky high, Britain has too many immigrants and I would like to preserve British traditions. In the areas where the majority are black the crime rate is extremely high.
The reason for the last, of course, is that they are also areas where the majority are extremely poor, which hardly supports the idea that racial/ethnic minorities are somehow favoured at the expense of whites.

I'm curious, how do you reconcile Christianity to the BNP agenda? Somehow I don't think immigration and national flags are issues Jesus would have got too hung up on. Or taxes the purpose of which is wealth re-distribution to the needy. Or paying for the NHS. Or helping those fleeing persecution in their country of origin. And so on, and so on..
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-02-2006, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
lol I'll keep it simple. I don't know what my thoughts are as of yet.
ummm u must hav some ideA?
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Skillganon
12-02-2006, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
The reason for the last, of course, is that they are also areas where the majority are extremely poor, which hardly supports the idea that racial/ethnic minorities are somehow favoured at the expense of whites.

I'm curious, how do you reconcile Christianity to the BNP agenda? Somehow I don't think immigration and national flags are issues Jesus would have got too hung up on. Or taxes the purpose of which is wealth re-distribution to the needy. Or paying for the NHS. Or helping those fleeing persecution in their country of origin. And so on, and so on..
He said the taxes are to high, not that he has a problem with tax.

The increase in Tax may be for several reason mainly to what is happening in the world. Economics.
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England
12-02-2006, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
^ innit though :p

and if britain really wanted to sort out the asylum problem, why dont it stop making wars :p and instead of puttin its nose in the middle east :p why dont it put its nose where they asylum seekers come from:D and help out there!

but i guess they dont put there nose there, cos there isnt any oil there :p brap brap :D:D:D
You're referring to the Labour government. The people want our troops back here to PROTECT our homeland not half way across the world for some needless war. It is BLIAR that wants this war at the same time he wants asylum seekers. As for the people, we do not want our troops in Iraq or Afghanistan because it has nothing to do with us. We want them to protect OUR PEOPLE. We are also the ones that wants to clamp down on immigration, not BLIAR.
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Durrah
12-02-2006, 10:56 PM
England,

If u wanna learn about islam, pick up the quran, the tasfir (explanation of the quran), read the biography of the prophets and look at the core beliefs of islam.

Im not saying you wont find some of of that here but at the end of the day, most people in this forum are under 25, students but you also have married folk, mums, dads, grandads here. And yes we are muslims, but we are also humans and go through the same stuff you do in everyday life. We're not perfect beings or nesscarly the best representations of islam.

I say look to the actual source of islam, because you'll find what your looking for there.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
You're referring to the Labour government. The people want our troops back here to PROTECT our homeland not half way across the world for some needless war. It is BLIAR that wants this war at the same time he wants asylum seekers. As for the people, we do not want our troops in Iraq or Afghanistan because it has nothing to do with us. We want them to protect OUR PEOPLE. We are also the ones that wants to clamp down on immigration, not BLIAR.
well "the people" voted for BLIAR :p bless good old tony he looks so vulnerable lol :p

i do believe that most english people are nice, but there is a small minority that are racist

and you still havent clarified your thoughts or stereotypes :p

so i will say 1 of my thoughts :D :p

you may think, why dont british muslims consider themselfs to be british?

well have you ever heard the term "british jew" or "british hindu" or "british gay" :p no no no

you always hear the term "british muslim" its like wer alienated or summin :p then the british people say, why do u not feel british, well duh :p

you must have some view lol :p :D:D:D
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England
12-02-2006, 11:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well "the people" voted for BLIAR :p bless good old tony he looks so vulnerable lol :p

i do believe that most english people are nice, but there is a small minority that are racist

and you still havent clarified your thoughts or stereotypes :p

so i will say 1 of my thoughts :D :p

you may think, why dont british muslims consider themselfs to be british?

well have you ever heard the term "british jew" or "british hindu" or "british gay" :p no no no

you always hear the term "british muslim" its like wer alienated or summin :p then the british people say, why do u not feel british, well duh :p

you must have some view lol :p :D:D:D
I have given my response. I did think 'do british muslims consider themselves british?' I made a post about it asking that so that question has already been answered to me.

Oh and I did not Blair. In fact I voted no-one as my then-preferred party was not on the list yet. The people that did vote him did so in response to his 'promises.' He's know as BLIAR
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Muhammad
12-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Greetings,

I think you have done a very good thing England, to come and find out for yourself what Islam is actually about. I am glad that you are looking to see beyond stereotypes :).

You mentioned that you thought Britain was getting too "soft"... yet on the other hand, people could argue that it is becoming more hardened. I did not know about the national flags and symbols being banned... and I don't know why that is, but Muslims and other religious minorities are suffering too. Most recently we have seen the issue with the veil, yet this is just one of a string of events that are ever seeming to discriminate against Muslims.

Peace.
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chacha_jalebi
12-02-2006, 11:07 PM
well england matey

i hope all the stereotypes are cleared for ya :p

and any Qs or anythin jus ask, cos thats the best way innit :D
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Trumble
12-02-2006, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
The increase in Tax may be for several reason mainly to what is happening in the world. Economics.
What increases there have been in tax have been primarily to fund education and healthcare. Those are policy decisions, not economic ones.
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GARY
12-02-2006, 11:14 PM
The idea of catering to minorities is common in many western countries. In the US I believe they call it 'Affirmative Action', and many corporations have their own policies. And yes, this usually pisses off the majority, with good reason.
Often these policies are a failed exercise in political correctness. Many corporations have hiring practices of hiring first minorites, women, disabled, and other groups. Often people are hired to fill a "quota" of 'x - number' of minorites hired, not on their ability to perform the job required. Talented 'white men' that happen to be best suited for the job are passed by for others that fill this quota. This creates anger and more racism. It's what many call "reverse discrimination".
The only real way to ensure that no discrimination is taking place, is to assign a number to each job applicant. No names, no race, no sex, no religion. Then each person answers questions to a panel of interviewers in a recruitment agency. The answers are forwarded to the employer along with the applicant number.
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GARY
12-02-2006, 11:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
i agree that theres alot of illiegal immigration but whether you like it, many of them are doing jobs that white britions would never do in a million years. Why? because they're too proud and see it beneath them. They'd rather collect the dole instead than get on their knees and scrub toliets for example, to earn an honest living.
There will always be people to fill the jobs required. If Britain had only whites, somebody would clean the toilets. It just becomes a question of "why would I do it if that guy is willing to do it?"
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GARY
12-02-2006, 11:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
i agree that theres alot of illiegal immigration but whether you like it, many of them are doing jobs that white britions would never do in a million years. Why? because they're too proud and see it beneath them. They'd rather collect the dole instead than get on their knees and scrub toliets for example, to earn an honest living.
Further, isn't it a bit of a bigoted thing to say that 'white britons' are too proud to clean toilets, and make an honest living? Whites would rather collect the dole? Tsk tsk, racism.
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England
12-02-2006, 11:25 PM
Did you know the nursery rhyme of 'baa baa black sheep' has been banned? I used to sing that at nursery :uuh: My 12yr old sister got a stern look for mentioning the word 'blackboard' which I have always used. All this because it 'may offend blacks.'

Political correctness gone mad.


Oh and thanks Muhammad
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-02-2006, 11:27 PM
OMG i know ^ :-\ i cudnt blive it i woz like wotz hapenin!
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England
12-02-2006, 11:29 PM
I wouldn't clean the toilets for minimum wage, stuff that. But if there was a clamp down on immigration and asylum seekers it would save money. The tax would be alot less and the government would have the opportunity to increase the pay and I'm sure Britons would clean toilets for an increased wage.
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GARY
12-02-2006, 11:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by England
I wouldn't clean the toilets for minimum wage, stuff that. But if there was a clamp down on immigration and asylum seekers it would save money. The tax would be alot less and the government would have the opportunity to increase the pay and I'm sure Britons would clean toilets for an increased wage.
I suspect you are either educated or on your way to being educated, therefore you should not have to clean toilets. But I am sure there are many white Britons that already clean toilets for minimum wage, some even happily. There are still some people around that take pride in any work that they do. An honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Many more would probably also clean toilets if they didn't see it as an "immigrant's job".
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-02-2006, 11:52 PM
dis topic has gone sooooo randomly sumwhere else ^o)
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Muezzin
12-02-2006, 11:53 PM
Nothing to stop people from cleaning toilets but their own inhibitions.

I can't believe I just said that.

:p

And now back to the topic...
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GARY
12-03-2006, 12:04 AM
Yes, back on topic. To clarify the point of my earlier posts, I understand the frustration of BNP supporters. Political correctness has gone too far. I just don't know if the answers they suggest are realistic.
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Muezzin
12-03-2006, 12:17 AM
Heck, I don't like the BNP and even I can see political-correctness has gone too far when airline employees aren't allowed to display their crosses, or postage stamps no longer have Christian themed images at Christmas time for 'fear of offence'.

I think a democratic state should have the cajones to let people display any religious symbol they want, not suppress all of them. I also think it's silly that a traditionally Christian festival has been... spiritually neuteured. I'm Muslim, I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'm not going to get offended by the sight of a crucifix or 'baby Jesus' - I live in a traditionally Christian country with certain customs, but I am not obliged to follow them. I wish certain higher-ups could understand this mentality.

That kind of mentality is what multiculturalism is all about - letting everyone express themselves, not suppressing the minority in favour of the majority or vice versa.
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GARY
12-03-2006, 12:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Heck, I don't like the BNP and even I can see political-correctness has gone too far when airline employees aren't allowed to display their crosses, or postage stamps no longer have Christian themed images at Christmas time for 'fear of offence'.

I think a democratic state should have the cajones to let people display any religious symbol they want, not suppress all of them. I also think it's silly that a traditionally Christian festival has been... spiritually neuteured. I'm Muslim, I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'm not going to get offended by the sight of a crucifix or 'baby Jesus' - I live in a traditionally Christian country with certain customs, but I am not obliged to follow them. I wish certain higher-ups could understand this mentality.
That was......was.....(sniff).....Beautiful man! :'( :laugh:

Seriously, if only everybody could have this view. If only the select few that do whine about the incredible infringment on their rights to have to look at a cross, or a hijab, or see "Christ" in Christmas" would see how petty these silly complaints are.
And if only politicians had the tetiscular fortitude to tell these people, "no, we are not going to waste time on these silly complaints, and Christmas will still be called Christmas. Not 'the holiday season' or 'xmas'.

Muezzin for Prime Minister of Britain.
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KAding
12-03-2006, 10:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
That kind of mentality is what multiculturalism is all about - letting everyone express themselves, not suppressing the minority in favour of the majority or vice versa.
I must say, I find this somewhat ironic at times. Since I always had the impression Islam does not itself endorse multiculturalism, but rather supports the principle of a 'leitkultur' (leading culture).

Am I wrong in this?
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Musaafirah
12-03-2006, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I must say, I find this somewhat ironic at times. Since I always had the impression Islam does not itself endorse multiculturalism, but rather supports the principle of a 'leitkultur' (leading culture).

Am I wrong in this?
Can I ask, what gave you such an impression?
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-03-2006, 06:36 PM
yeah ^ i wana ask da same ting?
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KAding
12-04-2006, 01:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Musaafir
Can I ask, what gave you such an impression?
Well, let me put it this way. Does Islam say that having many different cultures and religions in one society is a good thing? Does it say that essentially all cultures/religions are equal? That polytheists and atheists are as enriching to society as Muslims? Does it say that having kafirs living together with Muslims in one country is a good thing? Does it embrace kafir lifestyles as an ingredient of a perfect society?

IMHO the answer to all that is 'no'. In Islam the ideal would be a society where everyone is Muslim, where Islamic rules apply to all. An ideal Islamic country is a country where Islam is the guiding principle of society, where non-Islamic influences are minimized as much as possible. In countries where 50% + 1 are Muslim the state and judiciary should be based on Islamic principles, meaning that non-Muslims will considered a different kind of citizen, with different rights, namely dhimmi's. Sure, there are arrangements to deal with minorities, but nevertheless, the leading culture (leitkultur) would have to be Islam. Even between Muslims cultural differences are not celebrated but generally disliked. Thats why you often hear people on this forum complain that "people put their own culture before Islam", "all these superficial cultural differences are dividing the Umma".

All this gave me the impression that Islam preaches the antithesis, the direct opposite, of the ideal of multiculturalism. Islam should be the guiding principle of society, the ideal world is one where everyone;s primary culture is that of Islam.

I could be wrong though. Why do you think Islam endorses or even promotes multiculturalism?
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Keltoi
12-04-2006, 01:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Well, let me put it this way. Does Islam say that having many different cultures and religions in one society is a good thing? Does it say that essentially all cultures/religions are equal? That polytheists and atheists are as enriching to society as Muslims? Does it say that having kafirs living together with Muslims in one country is a good thing? Does it embrace kafir lifestyles as an ingredient of a perfect society?

IMHO the answer to all that is 'no'. In Islam the ideal would be a society where everyone is Muslim, where Islamic rules apply to all. An ideal Islamic country is a country where Islam is the guiding principle of society, where non-Islamic influences are minimized as much as possible. In countries where 50% + 1 are Muslim the state and judiciary should be based on Islamic principles, meaning that non-Muslims will considered a different kind of citizen, with different rights, namely dhimmi's. Sure, there are arrangements to deal with minorities, but nevertheless, the leading culture (leitkultur) would have to be Islam. Even between Muslims cultural differences are not celebrated but generally disliked. Thats why you often hear people on this forum complain that "people put their own culture before Islam", "all these superficial cultural differences are dividing the Umma".

All this gave me the impression that Islam preaches the antithesis, the direct opposite, of the ideal of multiculturalism. Islam should be the guiding principle of society, the ideal world is one where everyone;s primary culture is that of Islam.

I could be wrong though. Why do you think Islam endorses or even promotes multiculturalism?
This is actually a very good question. I'll be interested to read some responses.
Reply

Muezzin
12-04-2006, 06:53 PM
It is a good question and honestly deserves a thread of its own as answering it will undoubtedly lead to much debate that has little to do with the topic of this particular thread :)
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-05-2006, 09:13 PM
pathetic parties like dt yh, why dey wastn der tym? dey neva gona gt elected :?
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IbnAbdulHakim
12-05-2006, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

The title has me in laughter, as if your gonna find BNP supporters here lol.
lol i resisted this for three days only to find someone else said exactly what i was resisting :p
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