who are the khawarij really?

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

the allegation of being khawarij is thrown about perhaps much more widely than it should be, even by some moderaters on this forum i am sad to say.

so can they show to me who are the khawarij today?

i understand that the khawarij were innovators, many of them amongst the first to inniciate the bidah of group zikhr but being an innovator doesnt make you khawarij surely and no one makes that allegation.

others point out that the khawarij were takfiri, yes that is true but so were the rightly guided kalifs on occassion so being takfiri doesnt make someone khawarij.

others point out that the khawarij would wage war upon the muslims and leave the kuffar alone... well that surely applies more to the apostate regimes than those they accuse of being khawarij for wanting to remove them for revealing by other than Allah has revealled.

so who are the khawarij really?
can anyone give me a rock solid definition of one please - so i can differentiate the 'good' mujahid from the 'bad' khawarij ones.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[afriend]

Jazakallah for bringing this topic up...

I'd like to know a little more too.

:w:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

ok my understanding akhee is that khawaarij do not take the middle path and are not moderate as islam indicates we should be for example the go overboard with takfeer (as u mention) and this is nothing like the khalifa's use to do,

according to khawaarij - anyone without 100% same belief = kaafir
according to khalifa - anyone who clearly associates partners with Allah swt and rejects any ayyat of the Quran = kaafir (this is my understanding).

Basically i see them as opposite to murjiy, where murjiys are guys who are lik "oooh you drank Alcohol, doont worry Allah will forgive" and khawaarij are like "OMG U KAAFIR, U DRINK ALCOHOL? YOU DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!! DIIIIE"

am i making sence>?

:wasalamex :)

[afriend]

Hold on...I could swear that there was a tribe called khawarij, the ones who were bannished from Madinah, hence people have been comparing some muslims to them.......Well I must have had the wrong idea...

Jazakallah for clearing up bhai :)

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[Dawud_uk]

:salamext:

ok my understanding akhee is that khawaarij do not take the middle path and are not moderate as islam indicates we should be for example the go overboard with takfeer (as u mention) and this is nothing like the khalifa's use to do,

according to khawaarij - anyone without 100% same belief = kaafir
according to khalifa - anyone who clearly associates partners with Allah swt and rejects any ayyat of the Quran = kaafir (this is my understanding).

Basically i see them as opposite to murjiy, where murjiys are guys who are lik "oooh you drank Alcohol, doont worry Allah will forgive" and khawaarij are like "OMG U KAAFIR, U DRINK ALCOHOL? YOU DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!! DIIIIE"

am i making sence>?

:wasalamex :)

jazakallah, yes you are making sense. this is my understanding too,

that the khawarij believe committing a major sin is kufr as well, and although this could be applied to some of the more extreme elements in algeria if the allegations about them are to be believed but still i dont see it being applied to all those who are labelled as khawarij amongst the mujahadeen.

wa alaykumus salaam,
Abu Abdullah

[Hijrah]

in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.

EDIT: IbnAbdulHakim explained it quite well, the habit of unrestriced takfeer is quite a characteristic of them, similar to how ibn laaden called sheikh ibn baaz (may allah have mercy on him) a kaafir

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

Audhubillah, only the extreme people would call mujahideen khawaarij without clear clear proof !

btw, do khawaarij accept difference of opinion? i really doubt they do...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.

EDIT: IbnAbdulHakim explained it quite well, the habit of unrestriced takfeer is quite a characteristic of them, similar to how ibn laaden called sheikh ibn baaz (may allah have mercy on him) a kaafir

:salamext:

can you elaborate inshaAllah :)

I am quite familiar with the khawaarij during the time of Ali RA, they made me sick but how are they like the Al-Qaeeda?

JazakAllahu khairan

[Dawud_uk]

in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.

assalaamu alaykum,

that is once again an allegation and certainly not a definition.

as for al-qaeda i have heard they have made declarations of takfir against many muslim governments for ruling by other than Allah has revealed but i do not think they have gone beyond the rulers, they are not declaring the people to be kaffirs for committing major sins or other matters such as this.

as for for the HT's, they said voting is kufr, but they did not make takfir, only said it was kufr and i certainly dont think they fit into the catagory of khawarij as many of them do not pray and are from from the khawarij in their attachment to ibadah etc.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Hijrah]

:salamext:

Audhubillah, only the extreme people would call mujahideen khawaarij without clear clear proof !

btw, do khawaarij accept difference of opinion? i really doubt they do...

:sl:

hizb-ut-tehreer even made some strange declarations like 'there is no such thing as an extremist'....and just to let you know many former afghan mujahideen talk about how ibn laaden and his group's ideologies do consist of such things as unrestricted takfeer and the killing of women and children etc., about how he showed some disrespect to sheikh abdullah azzam, anyway I don't want to stray off topic...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

there are strange allegations everywhere and in all honesty i dont trust allegations at all ! Did you know that the saudi salafi's (sh. ibn baaz etc) are also considered khawaarij by some imaams due to them declaring kufr on certain issues? Audhubillah we seek refuge in Allah from making such judgements especially when our knowledge is so little.

[Hijrah]

:salamext:

there are strange allegations everywhere and in all honesty i dont trust allegations at all ! Did you know that the saudi salafi's (sh. ibn baaz etc) are also considered khawaarij by some imaams due to them declaring kufr on certain issues? Audhubillah we seek refuge in Allah from making such judgements especially when our knowledge is so little.

like who? Abdullah Al-Faisal, the same guy who said we should kill all christians and hindus?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

like who? Abdullah Al-Faisal, the same guy who said we should kill all christians and hindus?

:salamext:

LOL ! subhanAllah thats one extreme brother lol ;D ! ye it was him but my point is that we cant trust allegations, you with me hijrah? :)

[Hijrah]

:salamext:

LOL ! subhanAllah thats one extreme brother lol ;D ! ye it was him but my point is that we cant trust allegations, you with me hijrah? :)

My bad, it was all jews and hindus but yes i'm with u.

:sl:

[Skillganon]

I think the problem of today that many muslim don't have the knowledge of the deen properly, so soonas the see a word hurled about, by media, or those so called moderate muslim they unconciousely stick to it. Yeah they must be right, the are Kwarji.

Other word's that have been distorted by the media, and some muslims is the word wa**bi, Salaf & even Moderate.

Most brother's don't know what moderate mean's, basicly in mean's staying in the middle path, not going to either excess on matter of religion.
It has been washed down by the media to be connote some kind of passiveness.
Even if you use the word moderate as it has been distorted.

[Hijrah]

moderate from the media perspective is the extreme liberal muslims while the terrorists are fundamentalists ie. ultra conservatives who as a matter of fact are truly following islam.

[Skillganon]

moderate from the media perspective is the extreme liberal muslims while the terrorists are fundamentalists ie. ultra conservatives who as a matter of fact are truly following islam.

Yes, true in some sense. However we should not labell ourselve with such connotation they use other than what is already establish in Islam and what the sahaba used and followed. It will ovoid confusion in the ummah.

[Umm Safiya]

:sl:

@ Hijrah

When did OBL call Ibn Bâz kâfir? And why? Can you provide links or sources jazâk Allâhu khayran..

[Hijrah]

:sl:

@ Hijrah

When did OBL call Ibn Bâz kâfir? And why? Can you provide links or sources jazâk Allâhu khayran..

:sl:
I can't provide links or anything but I think, believe it or not, it goes like this, Ibn Baaz was writing letters to OBL condemning what he did and told him to desist and not to follow such a path, OBL called him a kaafir in return and you can see fatwas by Ibn Baaz saying pretty much advising people not to follow his path.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The very first sect to split away from the main body of the Muslims. They will remain in the Ummah till they fight alongside Dajjal against this Ummah.

The Khawaarij are a sect which came out to kill 'Alee ibn Abee Taalib (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) concerning the issue of Ruling/ leadership.

Their chosen path was one of distancing themselves from 'Uthmaan ibn 'Affaan and 'Alee ibn Abee Taalib (radhi-yallaahu 'anhumaa), and condoning walking out against the Imaam (leader) and seeking to overthrow him if he opposes the Sunnah. Likewise, they would make takfeer (render someone a kaafir) of anyone who commits a major sin and claim that he will forever abide in the Fire of Hell.

Ash-Shahrastaanee defines them as: ((Anyone who walks out against (seeking to overthrow) the true appointed Imaam (leader) upon whose leadership the Jamaa'ah is in agreement is called a Khaarijee. This is the case, despite whether the walking out (against the Imaam) occurred in the days of the Rightly-Guided Khulafaa. or other than them from the Taabi'een)).

And some of the pious predecessors used to call all those who practiced Islaam based upon their desires as Khawaarij.

The Khawaarij were the first sect to appear in the history of Islaam, splitting up into more than 20 different sub-sects. However, it is said that the major sub-sects of the Khawaarij are seven:

[Umm Safiya]

:sl:
I can't provide links or anything but I think, believe it or not, it goes like this, Ibn Baaz was writing letters to OBL condemning what he did and told him to desist and not to follow such a path, OBL called him a kaafir in return and you can see fatwas by Ibn Baaz saying pretty much advising people not to follow his path.

Where can I read these fatâwa? Jazâk Allâhu khayran..

[Zone Maker]

:sl:

Many Muslims specially the ones who belong to the Sunni sect (also the stuff of this forum) call my sect kwarij I would like them to give me a good reason for calling us this name.

[please don't delete what I posted above]

:w:

[Umm Safiya]

:sl:

Many Muslims specially the ones who belong to the Sunni sect (also the stuff of this forum) call my sect kwarij I would like them to give me a good reason for calling us this name.

[please don't delete what I posted above]

:w:

:sl:

What is "your sect"? :? :?

[Zone Maker]

:sl:

What is "your sect"? :? :?

:sl:

Al-abathya/Al-abaddya.

:w:

[Hijrah]

Where can I read these fatâwa? Jazâk Allâhu khayran..

read the following

(The Advice of Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Baaz (D.1420H) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin al-Khaarijee and A warning and Advice to all those who traverse his path)


Said Imaam Aboo Bakr al-Aajurree (d.360H) – rahimahullaah, “It is not permissible for the one who sees the uprising of a khaarijee who has revolted against the leader, whether he is just or oppressive - so this person has revolted and gathered a group behind him, has pulled out his sword and has made lawful the killing of Muslims - it is not fitting for the one who sees this, that he becomes deceived by this person’s recitation of the Qur‘aan, the length of his standing in Prayer, nor his constant fasting, nor his good and excellent words in knowledge when it is clear to him that this person’s way and methodology is that of the Khawaarij.”

Said Shaykhul-Islaam ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn ’Abdullaah Ibn Baaz (d.1420H) – rahimahullaah, “So my advice to al-Mas’aree, al-Faqeeh and Ibn Laadin and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allaah and to beware of His revenge and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allaah from whatever has preceded from them.”

A concise warning from Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah) to Usaamah Ibn Laadin. The extremist takfeeree who rejoices in making takfeer mu’ayyin of the Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah and the Muslim rulers all in the name of Islaam. Ibn Laadin's disgusting, vermin-laden doctrine of mass-takfeer was not excluded from even the eminent Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah).

[Islamicboy]

I know many saudi scholars that call Taliban Al Qeada and OBL Khawaarij they also call Imam Hussian R.A. Prophets Muhammed S.a.W grandson to be one of the Khawaarij. Astagfurillah May Allah guide these scholars

Also this site www.salaficast.net said we should pray for american soldiers for victory because they are fighting Khawaarij and Prophet muhammed S.a.W said he will himself would kill them if they were to come at his time. Interesting that these scholars would pray for american troops who torture muslims kill muslims rape torn Quran. Astagfurillah these scholars should really get some islamic education.

[Hijrah]

where exactly? that's sad to hear!

Participating in the War against Iraq| Sheikh Salman al-Oadah|

All praise is due to Allah and may peace and blessing be upon our Prophet Muhammad.

One of the main principles of Islam is that there should be mutual support and cooperation among Muslims and that all kinds of aggression among them are forbidden. A Muslim may not attack another Muslim, his family, or his property.

Our Prophet (peace be upon him) made the following declaration during his final pilgrimage three months before his death. He said: "A Muslim is the brother of his fellow Muslim. He will not oppress him, abandon him in difficulties, forsake him, or insult him".

Killing a Muslim for any reason is a grievous sin. We can find no warning in the Qur'ân against any sin besides polytheism sterner than the warning that it gives us against killing a fellow Muslim. Allah says: "Whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein, and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful chastisement is prepared for him".

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "If two Muslims fight each other brandishing swords, then both of them - the killer and the one killed - will be in Hell."[Bukhârî].

He said: "Do not return to unbelief after me by killing one another." [Bukhârî and Muslim]

He also said: "The believer will continue to enjoy grace in his religion until he spills forbidden blood." [Bukhârî].

Abû al-Dardâ' said: I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: "Allah may forgive all sins except for the one who dies as a polytheist or a believer who kills another believer intentionally." [Sunan Abî Dâwûd]

`Ubâdah b. al-Sâmit relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "If a believer kills another believer and is pleased with what he did, Allah will never accept from him any excuse or justification."

Khaled b. Dahqân said: I have asked Yahyâ b. Yahyâ al-Ghasânî about what it means to "be pleased with what he did". He said: "This occurs during times of public strife where someone will kill another and feel that his act is justified, so he does not does not ask Allah to forgive him."

From all of this, it should be perfectly clear that a Muslim may not participate in killing or injuring his fellow Muslim. Likewise, he may not participate in the destruction of any Muslim country or any premises therein, whether civilian or military, no matter what the reason. Even if a Muslim faces the risk of death or personal loss for not participating, he does not have the right to save himself by killing his brother. In other words: he may not kill his brother to avoid being killed himself.

Therefore, we maintain that it is forbidden for any country, group or individual to join in attacking Iraq, destroying it, or killing its people. They may not support the attack on Iraq in any way, not verbally, politically, tacitly, logistically, materially, nor financially. On the contrary, they have to do what is in their power to prevent the war by all appropriate means. If they are unable to prevent the attack on Iraq, the least they can do is to avoid participating in any aspect of it.

This is in fact an aspect of one of the principles of our faith: that of loyalty between the believers and disavowal of the unbelievers. Allah says: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as your protecting friends. They are friends and protectors of one another. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust".

It is a great shame that some parties have decided to assist these invading aggressors. They do so hoping to realize some short-term worldly benefits like a high position in the forthcoming authority. In truth, they can hope for nothing but disgrace in this life and in the Hereafter as well if the do not repent. All those who are involved in helping in the invasion of Iraq should repent to Allah and distance themselves from the American war effort which seeks only to establish a new era of occupation on our soil. America seeks to strengthen its position as the only world power and at the same time protect Israel's position in this Islamic region by threatening and intimidating the neighboring countries.

America plans to establish in Iraq a prototype of an ideal regime by American standards to be example of material progress, freedom and democracy for the surrounding countries. However, in the future, this area will be a base for intelligence gathering and further military campaigns. We should not fail to mention the control America seeks to have over the oil, gas, and other natural resources of the region.

We would like to mention that it is permissible for a country's military to assist in safeguarding public premises and civilians and to help in assisting the refugees fleeing from Iraq. These, in fact, are positive efforts that Muslim countries should engage in and are services that will be required.

We pray to Allah that He protect the people of Iraq and to prevent the attack of the unbelievers.

We seek Allah's help and in Him we put our trust.

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

so if a khawarij is one who fights against the rightly appointed imam then how are these mujahadeen khawarij? (whether they're actions are right or wrong - which is a seperate question)

because they call towards setting up an imam, a leader, a kalif. some of them agreeing upon Mullah Muhammad Omar, others saying it should be someone else but still not fighting against the first group and being allied to it.

so they have not rebelled against the imam, because their aim is to put an imam in place where as those who oppose them seek to block the imposition of an imam and fight against this, and kill those who follow this path and torture them and their families in horrible ways.

these others call towards following kings and presidents, and oppose the imam or the setting up of an imam.

so who is the khawarij in those circumstances? the one who calls towards setting up the kalif and following the imam, or those who are fighting against it?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Hijrah]

assalaamu alaykum,

so if a khawarij is one who fights against the rightly appointed imam then how are these mujahadeen khawarij? (whether they're actions are right or wrong - which is a seperate question)

because they call towards setting up an imam, a leader, a kalif. some of them agreeing upon Mullah Muhammad Omar, others saying it should be someone else but still not fighting against the first group and being allied to it.

so they have not rebelled against the imam, because their aim is to put an imam in place where as those who oppose them seek to block the imposition of an imam and fight against this, and kill those who follow this path and torture them and their families in horrible ways.

these others call towards following kings and presidents, and oppose the imam or the setting up of an imam.

so who is the khawarij in those circumstances? the one who calls towards setting up the kalif and following the imam, or those who are fighting against it?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

:sl:

u have a very good point there, and all I have to say is Allaah knows best for matters such as this, but then again a lot of the people u may or may not be referring to have ideas that consist of killing people who don't agree with their way, Muslim or not, I don't know about Maulana Omar but this just goes to show you that just because you put salafi in front of something, it doesn't mean it really is!

[Hijrah]

what ayah are you referring to brother that al-khawaarij refer to this way? Allah knows best as to Bin Laden's aqeedah I don't think you have the right to call him a kaafir it makes you just like him...allahu-a3lam

[boriqee]

forgot to mention, in the link above i have clarified the issue of takfeer,how when and why and so forth, kufr, emaan and all the issue related to what was brought up here is mentioned. then as well I also discussed the issue of te rulers, how they are to be viewed, whether the most wicked or pious, how he salaf viewed them and acted with them, how the salafi schoalrs view them and how the deviatd people view them.

as well all the knowledge based arguements regardin he above

asalamu alaikum